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You may be bapticostal IF: Toward a Pentecostal definition of Theologia Bapticostalis:
- You don’t believe in the initial evidence of speaking in tongues and claim baptism with the holy Spirit without ever speaking in tongues
- You believe you can be filled with the Holy Ghost without ever been fully sanctified with a clean heart
- You believe in some “trinity,” but not in the Trinity defined by the Bible at the early church councils
- You like the charismata move of the Spirit but believe all gifts and miracles stopped with the apostles
- You believe you can social drink and still speak in tongues like there’s no tomorrow
- You believe God changes, learns new things and does not know the whole and entire past, present and future events
- You believe in any other rapture except pre-Trib
- You think gong to the altar is about repeating someone else’s prayer
- You reject any emotion in church
- You think the practice of holiness lifestyle was just for the Early Church and the apostles
- You think Dake’s Study Bible was good, but MacArthur’s is much more scholastically superior
- You believe Arminianism equates to Pelegianism
- You view Wesleyan holiness and sanctification renewal theology as a bad deviation from reformed TULIP
- You enjoy discussing that next new theology book in social coffee or beer gathering, more than studying the Bible and learn what God actually said
- You go to Ash Wednesday service just to get ash on your forehead
- You enjoy Sunday morning small talk series from the pastor rather than full blown old time Pentecostal preaching through which people cry, scream, shout, have a Holy Ghost conviction and personal crises experience and can actually get saved
- You think the initial evidence of speaking in tongues and the gift of speaking in tongues are one and the same
- You believe speaking of other tongues refers to the little Spanish you learned in college
- You think tongue talking is just for people from Mississippi
- You are firmly persuaded that all of the above is what a good Pentecostal church believes
Varnel Watson
Feel free to add your own points in the comments Street Preacherz
Thanks for the inspiration of recent posts by Link Hudson Lawrence Williams Andrew Gabriel Wayne Scott Walter Polasik and many others esp. Ricky Grimsley who may even argue God knew not about these ways of being bapticostal until now 🙂
Street Preacherz
I like Baptist. Especially when they pray. And honor the moving God Spirit.
I feel the same way towards A of G.
That’s all I can remember right now…
Link Hudson
It might help you to study a little bit about what Baptists believe and teach before you make a list like this. It’s all over the place. A lot of those don’t have anything to do with Baptist beliefs or practices. Where do you live? Have you actually ever met a Baptist?
A lot of the Baptists in the South have traditionally been tee-totalers. Do they have a less ‘church council’ view of the Trinity than Pentecostals? That’s way off.
Ash Wednesday? For Baptists?
How many non-pretrib Baptists have you met?
For you, does ‘Baptist’ mean ‘someone who disagrees with me on some point of religion or theology’? I guess you could call that ‘Baptist’ if you want to. But you are going to have a difficult time communicating with other people if you just redefine terms to mean something different from the way other people use them.
Link Hudson
Btw, I’ve never heard of Baptists getting ash on their forehead on Ash Wednesday, but I heard they were doing that at a service at Lee University.
Tim Renneberg
A couple of points might be related to one of the handful of Baptist denominations… but most are out in left field.
Street Preacherz
One problem is the Baptist approach to 1 Corinthians 13:10, “But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.” This is of course speaking of that day when we shall see our Lord face to Face. Our faith will become sight, and we shall know even as we are known. However some Baptist, not all I’m sure, take this to mean the Bible. Signs and wonders and prophecy and praying in an unknown tongue is passed away, we have the Bible now. And be so brazen as to insert this directly into the verse. “..perfect, (the Bible) is come..”
For me the Baptist, a people that honor the incorruptible word of God, that is problematic. I’m not finding fault with a whole denomination simply stating a problem I have personally experienced. This is a Pentecostal group. I probably wouldn’t say this on a Baptist group page. I would enjoy the fellowship. And the Blessed hope we share in Christ.
Walter Polasik
Thankfully, I grew up in Baptist circles about as much as I did in Pentecostal so I can tell you about that. No, Baptists don’t do Ash Wednesday, most of them ARE, in fact, pre-trib. Most of them also hold to Once Saved, Always Saved (meaning they dismiss the biblical teaching on apostasy, even saying that apostasy is something like a serious backsliding but that a genuine believe CANNOT walk away from the faith. In this they are not biblical but Calvinist to the core. They believe not only in unconditional election but also in unconditional salvation (which, of course, is unbiblical). And (need I mention this?) Baptists are the vanguard of Cessationism. Although I would point out that some of the more better-read and up-to-date ones don’t use the argument Street Preacherz quotes above (and that was a favorite of John MacArthur for years before other Evangelicals, notably Greek scholars, told him it didn’t fly in the face of the Greek as “that which is perfect” does not “obviously” denote the completion of Scripture). Still, our early Pentecostal fathers liked to say that Baptists make the best Pentecostals because in all other respects their doctrine is sound and then they really come alive when they get baptized in the Holy Ghost. Meanwhile, we also have a lot of Pentecostals who have come into the life of the Spirit in all of its’ depth yet somehow have managed to maintain a great ignorance where doctrine and the substance of the Word of God is concerned. I hate nothing more than on the one hand a church that is doctrinally correct, has good preaching and seemingly well-rounded people but that does not believe for God to be supernatural and involved with them when they worship and on the other hand a church that welcomes the moving of the Spirit, believes in all that God has to offer His people…but then only revolves its’ preaching and theology around that forgetting the larger corpus of Christian doctrine and being ignorant on so many vital Christian things. Why oh why? Why the disparity? I grew up holding BOTH elements within myself. A Spirit-filled and driven church should NOT be doctrinally shallow (or compromise with the world). It should now have watered-down preaching or preaching on one theme only. And a church that teaches the full counsel of the Word of God in all other areas should teach what the Bible says about the Spirit’s activity as well.
Unfortunately, when I’m in Baptist circles I’m too Pentecostal for them and when I’m in some Pentecostal circles I’m a bit too Baptist for them. Guess that makes me a “Bapti-costal”.
Varnel Watson
Link Hudson I dont claim to be too familiar with baptist doctrine as much as you but I did get one of my degrees from a Baptist university and two more on top of that from other places. The fact that you dont make difference between baptist and bapticostal speaks volumes Tim Renneberg The baptist force is strong with you Walter Polasik
Link Hudson
Bapticostal is something in your mind. from your list, it doesn’t really represent traditional Baptist or Pentecostal doctrine on some points.
Walter Polasik
Bapticostals belief in the continuation of the gifts of the Spirit, in manifestation and revival. Traditional Baptists generally don’t.
Varnel Watson
There’s so much to add to this defintion, but what you have written here fully describes what we’ve seen from our brother Link Hudson Would you say bapticostals also mass cast demons out like Win Worley and co?
Walter Polasik
Troy Day Haven’t heard of Win Worely. But I do know that even Fundamentalist Baptists believe in the existence and operation of demons and in the Christian’s responsibility to deal with them in the power of Jesus. My own Pentecostalism was strengthened actually @ BJU when I heard testimonies from Baptist missionaries about spiritual phenomena and God’s power. I also did a lot of reading on the subject while there and studied Church History on my own (I was a Piano Performance major).
Tim Renneberg
Bapticostals aren’t really a thing…
Varnel Watson
Apricotsal what? Which points would you refer to the hand full?
Walter Polasik
Or Presby-costals, Luther-matics you know….them tongue talkers….;-)
Varnel Watson
Not familiar with these too much but I have seen a few wiskeypelian and unfortunatelys out there, and their doctrinal praxis spreads with some modern day charismacostals as well
Walter Polasik
Troy Day Sadly, yes. I’ve seen smoking Baptists too. God help it any use weed! Yeah, a general lack of holiness in the wider church world But guess what? It doesn’t come from a “zap”…it comes with daily walking in Jesus. And yes, experiences with God at the altar are necessary too.
Varnel Watson
Lets not judge God’s ability to sanctify out of our inability to life holy
Walter Polasik
Troy Day You’re a clever one. Touche.
Varnel Watson
Tim Ramsey Most Baptist churches believe in pre-Trib rapture. Actually I cant think of any that dont. This is detrimental for Pentecostals too If the church awaits a pre-Trib rapture that could happen at any given moment it will live right and holy, strife to abide in the fullness of the Spirit, depart from sin and listen to God at any and all times for direction and confirmation
Walter Polasik
I couldn’t have said it better myself. Well put. 😉
Varnel Watson
Now if we can just agree on the Eternal Sonship of Christ Ricky Grimsley 🙂
Walter Polasik
Oh, I didn’t say I accept Entire Sanctification doctrine. But I do agree with what you’ve said above. But it isn’t about how “right” I am or how “wrong” you are (or vice versa)…it’s about what the Bible ACTUALLY says on any subject we discuss.
Varnel Watson
No one will see GOD if they are not entirely sanctified 🙂 – is what the Bible says
Walter Polasik
Troy Day True, thank God, Troy, that Christ’s atoning blood does that job. Otherwise I too would be worried and would be going to every Church of God service to get zapped. ?
Varnel Watson
So what to do IF the rapture happens before your progressive sanctification is done? It has to end somewhere right?
Walter Polasik
Troy Day Santa Maria! Boni pepperoni! ….Troy, did you not read what I wrote in that last post? Christ’s blood justifies and sanctifies both of us completely in the Father’s sight. I fully expect to see you flying in the air with me when Jesus comes. (And If I don’t find you then…don’t worry, I have all eternity to look for you. It’s not even a matter of time.) ?
Varnel Watson
What we know for sure is that Ricky Grimsley will be in the 2nd wave or 3rd or 4th…
Ricky Grimsley
I will be in the only rapture that happens. Sometime time after the midpoint but before the wrath of God.
Varnel Watson
If there was a New Bapticostal Edition [NuBE] of the Bible, Acts 2 would have read like this:
2 Suddenly a sound like the blowing of a violent wind [causing no obvious change in the disciples who sat there in silence without any wonder of what that may be]
came from heaven [where Jesus had just gone, so nor emotional surprise there either]
and filled the whole house where they were sitting [but they were of no fear, trembling or any other emotion – yeah, right ]
3 They saw what seemed to be tongues of fire [but still their stone faces showed no emotion]
that separated and came to rest on each of them [causing absolutely no emotional distress to any of them]
4 All of them were filled with the Holy Spirit [but no external change occurred as they clearly possessed power to control this mighty move of God]
and began to speak in other tongues [but now shouting, crying, laughing, screaming, jumping, leaping]
as the Spirit enabled them. [yet they left the place in the same emotional state they arrived – not a thing changed]
http://www.pentecostaltheology.com/a-motion-for-a-pentecostal-emotion/
Louise Cummings
You need some more Scriptures. First or Second Thessalonians. AndRevelation about 3:10.
Walter Polasik
Troy Day, brother, I’m with you there. I’ve been fighting that battle with main-line Evangelicals for a while now. I’m currently re-reading William Dearteaga’s great book, “Quenching the Spirit” he talks about the kinds of changes that took place in the Christian church over the centuries and why it is the way it is today. Thank God for revival, the work of the Spirit and a heart-felt response to it!
Walter Polasik
BTW, I guarantee you that the Acts 2 sermon Peter preached wasn’t delivered using notes and in the style of a polite lecture. (And they weren’t having a Baptist service in the Upper Room either).
Louise Cummings
They were born again Christians. That believed Jesus was Lord. I don’t think denotations had come along at this timed. You may be right. Maybe they had. I know they either worshipped God or idols. Or their own god.
Varnel Watson
Polasik I dont know about that The use of OT references sure denotes major preparation in what he was saying to the large crowd gathered
Walter Polasik
Troy, all I was saying here was that yes, Peter knew the OT prophecies well, but he definitely had emotion as he boldly declared the Messiahship of Jesus and the New Covenant work of the promised Holy Spirit.
Scotty Searan
No doubt Peter was prepared by being with Jesus 3 years. But could not Peter been relying on what Jesus said about not thinking about what you say when they deliver you up. Especially the part about the Holy Ghost bringing all things to your memory of what I have taught you.
I know most Pentecostal preachers have changed their minds about what they were gonna preach a few times before taking the stand to preach. I have even read my text and my opening remarks would be entirely down a different vane than planned and thereby following the leading of the Holy Ghost
Varnel Watson
This is what I am talking about Gary Micheal Epping So we start with the rapture and allow it to be what ever
#5) of our 5 – fold FULL Pentecostal gospel is gone right there
4) you come to day and age where the GIFTS of the Spirit are said to be practiced in the OT – Sure we agree – except demon casting but how does it anymore so whats the big deal Scratch 4
3) Baptism with speaking in tongues – Wiki says this (tomy surprise)
An increasing minority of pastors has expressed concern that there is a lack of biblical support for the claim that Spirit baptism must always be accompanied with speaking in tongues Roozen 2005, p. 73.Roozen, David A.; James R. Nieman, Editors (2005). Church, Identity, and Change: Theology and Denominational Structures in Unsettled Times. Grand Rapids, Michigan: William B. Eerdmans Publishing Company. ISBN 978-0-8028-2819-4.
2) entire sanctification – you might just forget about this one For a holiness roots church we sure aint sure in what sanctification is anymore And who even preaches it?
1) JUST in recent years BIG stink about the sinners prayer from some calvinist who has never even practiced personal witness because he believes if you are not chosen no point of witnessing, missions, evangelizing and our Pentecostal folk are lining up for tickets at his show tent #hello
So HOW do you adhere X-ers Y and Z-gens when you have lost your theological standard of faith? when one has ABANDONed his/her ROOTS VS RETHINKING THEOLOGY http://www.pentecostaltheology.com/abandoning-your-roots-vs-rethinking-your-theology/
and have traded the FULL Pentecostal GOSPEL http://www.pentecostaltheology.com/what-is-a-full-gospel/
for ORDO SALUTIS BAPTICOSTALIS http://www.pentecostaltheology.com/ordo-salutis-bapticostalis/
Varnel Watson
Gary Micheal Epping when you keep on taking away from them or water them down there will be no essential doctrines left to adhere to
Gary Micheal Epping
I agree. I am pretty hard core on members adhering to the 16 fundamental truths, as they are our basic beliefs. However, the position papers is another story.
Varnel Watson
well forget members Link Hudson is not even a member of AG I am talking about ministers who dont adhere and not just that but hold different doctrine and preach it from AG pulpits and even if the 16 are too much I will be happy wit the initial 5 and the pre-trib rapture but even this seems to be too much for some modern day mil-gen preachers
Gary Micheal Epping
I agree. Since we got back from Thailand we have been looking for an AOG church like what you are talking about, or possibly another pentecostal one. Over the last few years, we have visited and visited, and sadly it was hard to tall a pentecostal church from a baptist one in this area. When we were about to give up and just watch televised services, last month, we finally found the right one. Happy to be back in fellowship.
Varnel Watson
hard to find anymore – I cant agree more with you
Daniel J Hesse
My bapticostal friends and I speak in the unknown tongue of KJV.
Daniel J Hesse
Authorized version.
Varnel Watson
and what do they make out of it ? 🙂
Daniel J Hesse
Troy Day I’ve got tell you the interpretation is not that difficult
Varnel Watson
ok – tell us 🙂
Link Hudson
An old post you have resurrected. Not sure how to categorize it. Satire maybe? But it is not good satire becuase it does not reflect Baptist beliefs, not that I am aware of. Plenty of Baptist’s preach against drinking, and plenty are tee-totalers. But it did seem like a lot of drunk people on the streets of Athens, Georgia at night when I went to UGA were from Baptist backgrounds, but I guess they weren’t practicing that night.
And believe in a trinity but not the one from the church councils? Can we really say that is something non-Pentecostal, but rather more Baptists? Really? The Oneness call themselves Pentecostal, too. And there are plenty of Pentecostals whose understanding of the trinity seems to be ‘Jesus is God.’ I don’t know if Baptists tend to go into a lot of detail on the Trinity, but I wouldn’t be surprised if, on average, Baptist preachers address this as much or even more as Pentecostals. I don’t know of a Oneness or Arian Baptist group, but the last I read, about 5% of Pentecostals are Oneness, and there is some group, gospel chapel, I think, that don’t believe in the deity of Christ. It’s a very small percentage of Pentecostlas though.
Baptists getting ashes on their head for Ash Wednesday? I’ve never heard of Baptists doing this, but I read about an Ashe Wednesday service at Lee University.
If it’s satire, you need to work on it a little more to make it a bit more Baptist.
Varnel Watson
You believe in some “trinity,” but not in the Trinity defined by the Bible at the early church councils Philip Williams
Philip Williams
Troy Day
We must be committed to sola scriptura, the faith once and for all time entrusted to the saints. Interpreting Scripture via creeds, confessions, statements of belief, etc. is eisegesis. Thus, it is not based on proper exegesis of the Scripture. I am not criticizing the past, but something better is needed if the church is to be effective in this increasingly secular age.
These things hinder our witness: (1) the scientific challenge to the Bible; (2) divisions among Christians; and (3) sin among Christians, especially the leaders.
We are now discussing (2). The one to solve that is the Holy Spirit that builds us into one body of Christ. This common understanding of the Scriptures is also essential for addressing items (1) and (3).
The Jesus who has given us the Scriptures is the head of the body of Christ, his temple and witness in the earth. Pentecostals also know the living Jesus and he must be our focus and head. We must submit to him.
There is also Liberty in Christ. Our unity must come from personal conviction. Thus, we strive to maintain the unity of the Spirit and the bond of peace until we come to complete unity of faith.
As I shared with my dear friend Norm Geisler, who is not a Pentecostal, if we focus on Jesus, we will also know the Father. It is from believing in him that we receive the Holy Spirit.
But receiving the Holy Spirit as we Pentecostals know it, also requires unity with the body of Christ. That’s the importance of laying on of hands. When the Lord’s people are gathered in his name, he will be present to baptize with the Spirit whoever desires to receive this great gift, an actual relationship with Jesus.
That’s Pentecostal as we began and before we divided.
Varnel Watson
I am committed to the faith once delivered to the saints YES indeed
Varnel Watson
You believe you can social drink and still speak in tongues like there’s no tomorrow Charles Page
Charles Page
I am speaking in tongues as I take a sip of my second cup of coffee.
Varnel Watson
you done worse than that before Alan Smith
Alan Smith
Troy Day lol… shhhhh
Varnel Watson
You believe in any other rapture except pre-Trib Gary Micheal Epping
Varnel Watson
You believe Arminianism equates to Pelegianism Joe Absher
Varnel Watson
You enjoy Sunday morning small talk series from the pastor rather than full blown old time Pentecostal preaching through which people cry, scream, shout, have a Holy Ghost conviction and personal crises experience and can actually get saved COME ON!!!
Varnel Watson
You believe speaking of other tongues refers to the little Spanish you learned in college Angel Ruiz
Varnel Watson
You think tongue talking is just for people from Mississippi Michael Ellis Carter Jr.
Michael Ellis Carter Jr.
Troy Day would would now argue that being Pentecostal is a social construct
Varnel Watson
??? are YOU firmly persuaded that all of the above is what a good Pentecostal church believes ??? #bound2responce
Joe Absher
16. You enjoy Sunday morning small talk series from the pastor rather than full blown old time Pentecostal preaching through which people cry, scream, shout, have a Holy Ghost conviction and personal crises experience and can actually get saved
That is a gem. Sototeriology is for all, some the so called “doctors of divinity’ could use some
Michael Hazlewood
You are Catholicostal IF you are still baptized in the trinity after have read the scripture and received the Holy Ghost
Cameron C Smith
Michael Hazlewood I guess Matthew 28:19 isn’t scripture ?
Michael Hazlewood
Cameron C Smith THE NAME ; of THE FATHER , and of THE SON and of THE HOLY GHOST ; w/o explaining away the scripture itself and being completely honest before Holy God and man ; You know the Biblical answer for this and deny it to join with your buddies the Sanhedrin band
Michael Hazlewood
Cameron C Smith Show me ONE – JUST ONE Christian in Scripture KJB who was baptized in the trinity ?????? Just One
Cameron C Smith
Michael Hazlewood lol, I join the ENTIRE Christian church who knows how to read the Bible
Michael Hazlewood
Cameron C Smith and totally Ignore Scripture for what it says
Michael Hazlewood
Cameron C Smith and refuse to obey God and you go with the flow of the crowd to save face and deny obedience the The Word of God as essential to salvation
Cameron C Smith
Michael Hazlewood
Michael Hazlewood
Cameron C Smith Michael Hazlewood Cameron C Smith Show me ONE – JUST ONE Christian in Scripture KJB who was baptized in the trinity ?????? Just One
Michael Hazlewood
Cameron C Smith According to your religion obedience is not necessary for salvation ; Have you obeyed as the Holy Bible Christians did OR have you gone the way of Baalim to the control religion of people , property and money
Cameron C Smith
Michael Hazlewood I’m not sure what’s so difficult about that passage of scripture. All three exist at one time. Jesus is seated at the right hand of the father, and the Holy Spirit lives inside of us. All three exist at the same time… Trinity. God.
“I came forth from the Father, and am come into the world: again, I leave the world, and go to the Father.”
John 16:28 KJV
Michael Hazlewood
Cameron C Smith The Father IS THE HOLY GHOST – THE HOLY GHOST is the FATHER Matt.1:18-21 KJB
Michael Hazlewood
Cameron C Smith You have to utterly ignore Scriptures upon Scriptures to believe this
Michael Hazlewood
Cameron C Smith Michael Hazlewood Cameron C Smith Michael Hazlewood Cameron C Smith Show me ONE – JUST ONE Christian in Scripture KJB who was baptized in the trinity ?????? Just One
Cameron C Smith
Michael Hazlewood obedience is not necessary for salvation? JESUS is the one speaking in Matthew 28:19
I’m being obedient to God
Michael Hazlewood
Cameron C Smith IF you cannot show me the One Christian baptize in the trinity – You are not following Biblical Christianity and are in danger of hell fire
Michael Hazlewood
Cameron C Smith Matt 28:19 IS A COMMANDMENT FROM GOD not option B
Cameron C Smith
Michael Hazlewood Exactly
Michael Hazlewood
Cameron C Smith SO Obey the Comandment the same way the Bible Christians did ; Be Baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of your sins
Angel Ruiz
Michael Hazlewood
To be baptized in Jesus name is a reference to Authority
Angel Ruiz
Michael Hazlewood it can not be affirmed then that the phrase “baptize in the name of Jesus” means “to pronounce the name of Jesus at baptism” and that this phrase can not mean another
thing.
Michael Hazlewood
Angel Ruiz So obey the Scriptures for your salvation and Stop Philosophying them
Angel Ruiz
Michael Hazlewood
Does the phrase “in the name of” mean something other than “pronounce His name”? Yes???
Then you have to explain Luk 9:1 and 10:17 (“gave them power and authority”).
Their is nothing wrong to pronounce the name of Jesus. The problem is
when it is taught that the name of Jesus has to be pronounced at baptism and
only the name of Jesus can be pronounced at baptism, because the Bible does not teach that at all for baptism. The only model of certain exact words that they are to be pronounced when they are baptized are said by Jesus in Matt 28.
Michael Hazlewood
Angel Ruiz Everything before the day of Pentecost was OT – Old Covenant
Michael Hazlewood
Angel Ruiz Not one of you can show any Scripture of even One Christian in the Bible being baptized in the trinity ALL Christians were Baptized in the name of Jesus Christ ; Baptized calling on the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins
Angel Ruiz
Michael Hazlewood
The New Covenant is built upon the old Covenant does not replace it and explains it
Michael Hazlewood
You are Bapticostal IF you believe you are unconditionally saved with no need of The Holy Ghost Baptism of Baptism in water
Michael Hazlewood
To believe there are 3 Gods is Pagan Blasphemy
Michael Hazlewood
To be Baptized in Jesus name is to be buried with Christ in Baptism and thus Collossians 2:9- ALL tells us by Comandment and subjection we are in an Everlasting Covenant for Eternal Life ; A Covenane between Abraham and Almighty God
Angel Ruiz
Michael Hazlewood
Now show me a verse where Paul, Peter or any of the Apostles say “I baptize you in the name of Jesus”
Michael Hazlewood
Angel Ruiz exactly OT sacrifices – Jesus Christ sacrifice – Our bodies a living sacrifice ; All made holy acceptable to God and consumed of Holy Ghost (The Father ) and Fire
Michael Hazlewood
Angel Ruiz that is just all to easy ; Google KJV baptism scriptures read them and weep for forgiveness then be baptized calling on the name of Jesus for the remission of your sins and receive the Baptism of the Holy Ghost in fulfillment of all the Prophets and the Law with Christ Jesus
Angel Ruiz
Michael Hazlewood
I have Googled it and there is not a single verse where Paul or Peter or any of the Apostles say “I baptize you in the name of Jesus”
Michael Hazlewood
Angel Ruiz How many where they command you to ???
Michael Hazlewood
Angel Ruiz What you are teaching about baptism is damnable heresy it is Blasphemy
Angel Ruiz
Michael Hazlewood
Note that no verse is mentioned that any apostle pronounced “I Baptize you in the name of Jesus” when they baptized. There is no text that says that they pronounced the name of Jesus when baptizing.
In this simple act of obedience all the examples in Acts tell us what to do but they do not tell us what to say.
Varnel Watson
Thank you Cameron C Smith Steve Losee and Gary Micheal Epping for Matthew 28:19 Been saying it for weeks now As soon as I am done with 1 Jn 5 7 well look into Mt https://www.facebook.com/groups/pentecostaltheologygroup/permalink/2258152644239738/
Michael Hazlewood
Angel Ruiz That is just dumb down doctrine
Angel Ruiz
Michael Hazlewood
you can call it whatever you want but it’s 100% sticking to the actual word and what it actually says
Michael Hazlewood
Angel Ruiz Obeying the Word and what it says – SO DO IT – OBEY IT
Cameron C Smith
I really don’t see the problem here. If Jesus can pray to the father, because God is omniscient and can be on the throne AND in flesh on earth at the same time. Why isn’t he omniscient enough to be then Holy Spirit at the same time?
Michael Hazlewood
The Holy Ghost is Holy God The Father of Christ Jesus Matt. 1:18-21 KJB
Varnel Watson
Cameron C Smith they call it just TITLES
Cameron C Smith
Troy Day I know. I wonder who they think Jesus prayed to in the garden
Michael Hazlewood
Cameron C Smith His Father The Holy Ghost duh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Cameron C Smith
Michael Hazlewood So Jesus is a different person than the father?
Varnel Watson
Cameron C Smith they say just a different TITLE
Michael Hazlewood
Cameron C Smith NO – They are Him in Scripture – They are ONE
Cameron C Smith
Michael Hazlewood So he prayed to himself?
Michael Hazlewood
Cameron C Smith His Father I already answered that
Cameron C Smith
Michael Hazlewood So he prayed to someone else? Or himself?
Michael Hazlewood
Cameron C Smith But by all means keep seeking the Truth and with sincerety of heart God wuill unveil Truth to you
Michael Hazlewood
Cameron C Smith DUMB question I am not answering anymore DUMB questions
Varnel Watson
a TITLE cant save you
Cameron C Smith
Michael Hazlewood When you’re only capable of dumb answers, everything looks like a dumb question.
Michael Hazlewood
Troy Day ONLY ONE died on the cross for remission of sins
Cameron C Smith
Michael Hazlewood Exactly. God so loved the world, that he sent his only begotten son.
Michael Hazlewood
Cameron C Smith WRONG GO BACK READ IT AGAIN – this time remember The Holy Ghost is His Father not a 3rd person in a fantasy godhead
Cameron C Smith
Michael Hazlewood So you believe in a Bi-une God then?
Michael Hazlewood
Cameron C Smith DUMB STATEMENT
Cameron C Smith
Michael Hazlewood I think the problem is, you’re trying to make an eternal, omniscient God, make sense to your finite mind.
If the Father sent the son, by necessity, they are not the same person. Even if the father IS the Holy Spirit, he is NOT Jesus
Michael Hazlewood
Cameron C Smith Carnal mind will never understand Spiritual things which leaves you lost
Cameron C Smith
Michael Hazlewood So now I’m lost? So now people are saved by grace, through faith, with a complete knowledge of God
Michael Hazlewood
Cameron C Smith You son are FAR FAR AWAY from a complete knowledge of God
Cameron C Smith
Michael Hazlewood Guess what else? My wife cuts her hair too ?
Michael Hazlewood
Cameron C Smith Poking and proding away at the REAL man of God REALLY do you think what you are doing here is the work of God ?
Angel Ruiz
Michael Hazlewood i am… Like I said 100%… I don’t read into the text my preconceive ideas… I let the text be clear on what is says…
Michael Hazlewood
Angel Ruiz ACTS 2:38-39
Cameron C Smith
Michael Hazlewood I think we both believe that there is a Father, there is a Son, and there is a Holy Spirit. I think the only difference is, I believe that all three exist at the same time
Michael Hazlewood
Cameron C Smith Yes He does – He exist as Father (The Holy Ghost) , Son ( Almighty God in Flesh) , Holy Ghost (He in us for salvation) YES He exist as ONE not 3 persons
Angel Ruiz
Michael Hazlewood ,
And in Acts 2:38-39 where does Peter say “I baptize you in the name of Jesus”?
Michael Hazlewood
Angel Ruiz I said I am done with dumb questions
Angel Ruiz
Michael Hazlewood
In Acts 2:38, Peter answers a question and tells them what to do. He does not say anything about what to say when baptizing; none is baptized in verses 38-39. Not until verse 41, it says that three thousand people were baptized, but it does not say what
the apostles said at baptism.
Michael Hazlewood
Angel Ruiz OBEY What they told you to do then
Angel Ruiz
Michael Hazlewood all Christians do… Just as Jesus told the Apostles in Matt 28…
Peter in Acts 2:38 is baptizing by the Authority of Jesus…
Michael Hazlewood
Angel Ruiz If a Religious Theological Bible semetery had not taught you that it would be impossible for you to come to such an understanding a WRONG understanding
Angel Ruiz
Michael Hazlewood again u are using opinion… I’m just sticking to the text…
Angel Ruiz
Michael Hazlewood
The Apostles understood clearly…
Acts 4:7
They brought in Peter and John and made them stand in the middle while they questioned them. They asked, “By what authority/power and in whose name have you done this?”
Acts 4:12
And therThere Is No Other Name Under HeavenTHERE IS NO OTHER NAME UNDER HEAVEN among men by which we must be saved.”
IN OTEHR WORDS:
Only Jesus has the power to save! His authority is the only one in all the world that can save anyone, know that name is Jesus.
Michael Hazlewood
Angel Ruiz Absolutely !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! So Get baptized in Jesus name , calling on the name of Jesus for the remission of your sins – Just like all the Bible Christians did
Angel Ruiz
Michael Hazlewood I did… I called on the name of Jesus… But the person who baptized me did it just as Jesus said to baptize….
Michael Hazlewood
Angel Ruiz I AM DONE
Michael Hazlewood
so sad for yall
Angel Ruiz
Michael Hazlewood
Im sorry u feel sad… But when ur not on the side of truth it brings sadness… U atill have time to join the side of truth
Michael Hazlewood
Angel Ruiz My heart weeps for your lost soul ; denying obedience ; observing Lying Vanities forsaking your own Mercy
Varnel Watson
Michael Hazlewood YES He exist as ONE in 3 persons
Varnel Watson
Link Hudson has proposed an interesting question to the group as follows
Are you guys high church Pentecostals?
No, we are just regular Pentecostals. What kind of a non-Pentecostal church do you go to Link?
Varnel Watson
Joe Absher Daniel J Hesse someone needs to add this one to the list
If you dont celebrate Pentecost … well you are bapticostal https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QDon0JAtzoU
Joe Absher
https://youtu.be/h53Z20OuCZg
Varnel Watson
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Bapticostal-Journey-Inherit-Kingdom-Heaven/dp/0998010510
Varnel Watson
https://www.thebackpew.com/uploads/4/2/4/9/42493387/published/bapticostal.jpg?1496081380
Varnel Watson
https://www.patheos.com/blogs/emergentvillage/2016/10/a-little-bapticostal-misfit-bible-study/
Joe Absher
I think maybe i understand your concern Mr Day But at some point you’ll have to reconcile. Some of these people are our allies in the struggle for the souls of men.
Some I think you know are poison. They wear a mask, deceived and deceiving, they shuffle their feet, positioning themselves to entice with their craftiness and casting their doubts upon the good word of God. But I don’t think “bapticostals” are your real problem.
Varnel Watson
Philip Williams there is a find difference between what our fore-fathers and mothers believed in Pentecostalism and today millenial theologia 2 Timothy 1:5