Click to join the conversation with over 500,000 Pentecostal believers and scholars
Click to get our FREE MOBILE APP and stay connected
Pentecostal Theology | PentecostalTheology.com
Would preaching “Old Time Holiness” hurt a pastor?
Richard Briedwell [07/04/2015 3:32 PM]
No
Charles Page [07/04/2015 3:36 PM]
absolutely!!!
PastorClifford Short [07/04/2015 3:36 PM]
No, it might hurt some church goers, or wake them up to the truth of the gospel!
Charles Page [07/04/2015 3:37 PM]
can’t chew gum and drink bottled soda pop.
John Kissinger [07/04/2015 3:38 PM]
Bultmann’s project brings readers into an encounter with Jesus’ teachings in their historical context, or at least to describe his own encounter. No comment is made about the person of Jesus, as Bultmann believes such knowledge is forever lost to history. As he puts it: ” I do indeed think that we can know almost nothing concerning the life and personality of Jesus, since the early Christian sources show no interest in either, are moreover fragmentary and often legendary; and other sources about Jesus do not exist.” http://sandalstraps.blogspot.com/2006/11/jesus-and-legalism-bultmann-on-sermon.html
David M. Hinsen [07/04/2015 3:54 PM]
From my experience, old time holiness carries a ton of different meanings depending on who you are talking to – from truth to legalism and bondage. I think the term old time holiness needs to be defined due to the supposed misconceptions or what people have experienced either negatively or positively.
John Kissinger [07/04/2015 3:55 PM]
Back in the day (in the 80s) I listened to a sermon titled “Legalism” and had a lot about Jezebel in it. At one point in the message, the speaker said “You don’t have to wear your hear in a bun. Jesus already delivered you from your bun-dage!” Anyone recalls the name of speaker/church where it was preached?
Dennis D. Niles [07/04/2015 5:25 PM]
You and Bultmann should get together
Dennis D. Niles [07/04/2015 5:25 PM]
You and Bultmann should get together
Daniel Knight [07/05/2015 8:37 AM]
Your either for GOD ,, or the world, if you worry about that, you don’t need to be PREACHING
Luchen Bailey [07/05/2015 9:31 AM]
Holiness is holiness, the difference in “old time holiness” is that “old time holiness” is so often interwoven with legalism. Biblical Holiness has nothing to do with legalism. The problem when those who approached Holiness used eisegesis instead if exegesis in their study of scripture. Eisegesis. ( put into what they want it to mean), Exgeisis (taken out what it means).
John Kissinger [07/05/2015 12:46 PM]
not too many preach holiness anymore b/c of strict anti-gay-pastor-watch http://gawker.com/you-can-easily-guess-why-cops-arrested-anti-gay-pastor-1674101578
John Kissinger [07/05/2015 12:47 PM]
not too many preach holiness anymore b/c of the strict anti-gay-pastor-watch http://www.knoxnews.com/news/local-news/gatlinburg-pastor-reports-vandalism-of-antigay-marriage-sign_67697357
Jon Sellers [07/05/2015 3:22 PM]
I am putting this book on my reading list. It looks like a wonderful and deep treatment of the issue of holiness and perfection enlightened by profound insights from a biblical, trinitarian perspective.
Steve Webb [07/05/2015 5:13 PM]
Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord: (Hebrews 12:!4)… Seems to me we need holiness…without it we are running a race which we will not finish.
John Kissinger [07/05/2015 5:23 PM]
Steve Webb Peace with all men cannot exist without holiness!
John Kissinger [07/05/2015 5:23 PM]
Steve Webb Peace with all men cannot exist without holiness!
Charles Page [07/05/2015 5:51 PM]
apples and oranges???
Jon Sellers [07/05/2015 6:25 PM]
The Lord God gives himself in grace to be known, to be experienced by us in his Word by his Spirit, to become, if you like, the Divine Object of our experience. God is the One we experience in “an experience,” and it is only when we objectively experience God, that there is a genuine event, a genuine “crisis” with objective validity. Real inner and outer change, real sanctification, certainly requires self-knowledge and self-examination, but it occurs not when our eyes are inward in introspection but when we look outward and upward and our eyes are fixed on him. Real Christian experience is quite simply falling in love with God. And when we do that, we are never more rational, never more truly human, never more spiritually and intellectually awakened, never more at our best. It is objective experience of the real and living God that results in the subjective inner and outward change we call “sanctification.”
Noble, T.A. (2013-02-19). Holy Trinity: Holy People: The Theology of Christian Perfecting (Didsbury Lecture Series) (p. 17). Cascade Books, an Imprint of Wipf and Stock Publishers. Kindle Edition.
Kristian Kilgore [07/09/2015 10:26 AM]
Whether it “hurts” or not isn’t really the right question. Asking whether old time understandings of holiness were right is more valuable than trying to locate them on some sort of scale measuring potential social and professional levels of pain.
Charles Page [07/23/2015 12:20 PM]
it hurt Jack Hyles!!!
Paul Bailey [07/23/2015 2:42 PM]
Nope
Charles Page [07/23/2015 2:55 PM]
it helped him?
Timothy Phillips [07/23/2015 5:04 PM]
No
Brody Pope [07/23/2015 5:41 PM]
Who cares what people say? Preach holiness!
George Parker [07/23/2015 8:02 PM]
Heck NO.
Joey Blair [07/23/2015 11:04 PM]
No, we need it more than ever before
Charles Page
Yes
Grover Katzmarek Sr
No. Without holiness of heart life one will not make heaven their home
Varnel Watson
Nice rig Grover
Charles Page
To be clear -it would hurt the pastor if the church was cog
Grover Katzmarek Sr
There are certain things that the ultra conservative holiness people believe that I don’t see the point. One is where do they get about a woman putting her hair up on top of the head.
Peter and Paul issued inspired thoughts of how men and women must follow that as a whole in the churches are totally ignored.
I don’t think we need to dress as we are living in the 1800s, but we are to dress modestly, ALL of us.
Ben Wilson
“Old Time Holiness” focused on things like women wearing make-up, whether it was proper to drink coffee or not, and young people roller skating and going to football games.
Sadly, it was legalism that would have made the Pharisees jealous. . . .
Grover Katzmarek Sr
It’s according to what perspective you look at it.
Was anything written about these issues such as by Paul or Peter
Sone of the commands in the New Testament in this day of liberal theology issues are called legalism
Ben Wilson
So, Grover Katzmarek Sr, do you believe women should be allowed to teach men in the Church?
Do you believe women should be allowed to teach children in the Church?
Do you believe women should be allowed to teach anywhere. . . church, vacation Bible School, public school, colleges?
Do you believe women should be allowed to ask questions in a class?
Well, unless you’re against everything I’ve mentioned — you obviously don’t believe everything the Bible directs, because in 1 Timothy 2:12 Paul states “I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to remain quiet.”
Note there is nothing that states a women can teach vacation bible school or in the public schools — just that she is not allowed to teach. In addition to that, she’s not allowed to have authority over any man — period, not just in the Church. So she can’t be a supervisor over men anywhere, right?
And she must remain quite. . . .period. It doesn’t say “remain quiet in the Church”.
Right?
Grover Katzmarek Sr
Everything you listed and what Paul was stating all of these things were unlawful for women to do under Roman law. It was permitted lawfully for man to ask questions in a service even for a man to interrupt the speaker with questions.
The main answer to your question is does this person man or woman have evidences to the call of God upon their life.
Ben Wilson
So there was a Roman law prohibiting women from asking questions in a Christian service??
Somehow I have problems believing that. . . could you give a reference?
Grover Katzmarek Sr
Many of the old time Commentary like Pulpit Commentary, Adam CLARKE and others.
Much of Paul’s writings were influenced by Roman law and culture like when he talked about running a race was in reference to runners at the games of his day.
That is not to say they were any less inspired than others
Ben Wilson
So, Grover. . . do you think Amy Semple McPhearson was out of the will of God evangelizing and preaching like she did??
Jim Price
You have a picture of Jack Hyles in your O P and Hyles built a huge church ( First Baptist of Hammond, Ind ) and he was very strict, forbidding the men to wear long sideburns or long hair. I took a pastor’s course there in 1959 and they were running 4400 in S S with a fleet of busses ranging out 50 miles to bring in thousands of folks every week. I never liked his dictatorial and dictatorship way of running the church but he was one of a kind.
Ben Wilson
If you are going to forbid men from wearing long hair. . . shouldn’t they also be prohibited from trimming the edges of their beards??
Ben Wilson
The point I am making is forbidding someone from having long sideburns isn’t “holiness” at all. . . it’s Phariseeism, and is not the Gospel of Jesus Christ.
Grover Katzmarek Sr
I’ve not heard anything about long side burns but if we go to the Scriptures and let that determine who we live our lives instead trying to use our human reasoning about what us wrong with this or that.
I remember as I young man a freshman in my first year of bible school I asked my pastor what’s wrong with this, his reply to me was if your asking that question you already know by the Spirit if God that it is wrong.
And I’ve tried to live my life by those words of wisdom.
The biggest issue in the church today in my opinion a Nd why we no longer influence the culture but the culture is influencing the church we have lost our right concept of God. We no longer as Isaiah have a high and lifted up idea of Him and His Holiness
Mary Ellen Nissley
I was shocked to hear our State Overseer of VA preach recently in a district revival, that “God doesn’t care what you wear on the outside!”
…And I wondered how come the first blood ever shed on planet earth, was shed to cover human skin?
(I mean, modern swimwear would benefit from adding a fig leaf apron!)
Ben Wilson
So, let’s see. . . at the time you described, there were a grand total of two people on earth. . . and they were man and wife.
Are you saying that it was sinful for Adam and Eve to see each other naked after the fall??
Mary Ellen Nissley
I’m saying that this was what God did, to teach humans how to dress. Of course, it wasn’t wrong for them to see each other, but they felt guilty, and went to making themselves some clothes. God made a very strong point to them about what constituted “clothes.”
Nora King
Nora King liked this on Facebook.
Carl Murphy
As long as they preach the Bible and not the clothesline. As along as they teach true holiness is following Christ, not whom you swim with, I ok with it. But I am not ok when someone makes up rules like women’s clothing, or drinking coffee. That is Judaizing and I have no use for that
Joseph D. Absher
Try to define Holy. As in, “God is holy.” In laymans terms. But to answer the question holiness preaching will only hurt the hireling. May God deliver us from the opinions of men and give us one desire and that is to please Him that bought us with His own blood!!
Street Preacherz
Only if he’s a hypocrite. Or trusting in his own deeds and strength for salvation. Jesus Christ is our peace, wisdom, righteousness, and sanctification. Him!!! Preach him