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(KJV)John 1:14
And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
John 1:14 (NASB)
[14]And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we saw His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth.
John 1:14 (NKJV)
14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth
John 1:14 (HCSB)
14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth
John 1:14(ASV)
14 And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.
Why is the KJV different from other translations
Paul Hughes
EGENETO, the Aorist Tense of GINOMAI, can mean “was,” “came,” “became,” “happened,” or in dozens of cases, “made,” depending on the context. But often it amounts to a “judgment call” on the part of the translator. The KJV also translates “made” in Mt 4:3 and 9:16, to name just 2 of dozens of examples. In John, EGENETO appears 2 times in 1:3 and again in 1:10, all of which could also be well translated, “became.” EGENETO is Active or Middle Voice, which could suggest a sort of spontaneous “becoming” rather than a Passive “being made.” The latter, were a Passive sense meant to be emphasized, would likely use a Passive form of POIEO, the usual word for “make.”
But the choice is some translations might come down to theology, as there was a longstanding debate from early times over whether Christ was “created” before the worlds (as in Arianism), “ingenerate” (uncreated) like God the Father (as in Monism), “generated” from the Father before the worlds, “eternally generated” (as in Origen), or “generated,” as in “born” at the time of the Incarnation — with other variations.
Don Smith
You missed Luke 3:2 in which egeneto is translated “came to.”
“The word of God came to John the Baptist and he preached the good news.” The beginning of John 1:14 is the same and I see no reason to use the word “made” or “became” in John 1:14 unless the translator has a reason for the Logos of YHWH to become flesh.
“flesh” is another issue. Why would the word become the flesh of Jesus and why would anyone want to believe it did when Jesus always spoke against the flesh. For example:
“The Spirit gives life; the flesh counts for nothing. The words I have spoken to you–they are full of the Spirit and life.” John 6:63.
The Greek word “sarx” most often does mean flesh, but the word flesh can refer to a type such as “human flesh.” Another word used to translate “sarx” is humanity.
The word did not become flesh in the sense that people have been interpreting John 1:14.
The word came to humanity and dwelt within us…..This is the correct translation that fits with Luke 3:2. This is also confirmed by the fact that John 1:14 is the fulfillment of Deuteronomy 18:18.
“I will raise up for them a prophet like you from among their fellow Israelites, and I will put my words in his mouth. He will tell them everything I command him.” Deuteronomy 18:18
Notice the OT never states that God would make His word become flesh, but rather, he will put his words into his prophet. John 1:14 has been deliberately translated to imply that the word of God (His divine plan, spoken word, thoughts, etc.) became the person of Jesus in order to make Jesus become the God and word of John 1:1. This is pagan mysticism.
The word came to humanity and dwelt within us, and we beheld its glory, glory like as the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth.
God is Light. His Gospel is Light. Jesus brought the Light of God (the good news message from his Father) to humanity. The Gospel enlightens all who hear it and believe. The Gospel made Jesus and his disciples “the light of the world.”
“I am the light of the world. Whoever follows me will never walk in darkness, but will have the light of life.” (John 8:12) Jesus is called the “Light of the World” because he brought the Gospel to the inhabitants of the world. This is a title for Jesus. It does not mean Jesus is the literal light of the world because God is the true light (1 John 1:5) and Jesus called his followers “the light unto the world.” Matthew 5:14
The light is the Gospel. Jesus and his followers reveal the Gospel to the world. In that sense Jesus and his followers are the “light of the world.” Those who believe the Gospel are enlightened and receive eternal life.
We are told: “YHWH is light,” (1 John 1:5);
Paul states: “For YHWH, who said, Let light shine out of darkness,’ made His light shine in our hearts to give us the light of the knowledge of His glory displayed in the face of Messiah.” (2 Corinthians 4:6)
“YHWH is light,” and His light shown through Jesus the Messiah and made him “the light of the world.” Jesus called his followers “the light of the world.
The word in John 1:1 is the Gospel.
The beginning in John 1:1 is the beginning of the preaching of the Gospel.
Varnel Watson
Brody Pope Why “MADE FLESH” Instead of “BECAME FLESH?” Ricky Grimsley
Ricky Grimsley
I dont know the translators motivation but i know the bibke also says this. Hebrews 10:5 KJVS
[5] Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:
Street Preacherz
If it’s made flesh you have a maker which is God. Meaning I think Jesus didn’t do it of his own will. Became flesh. How far off???
Varnel Watson
are you saying Jesus was a made man?
Street Preacherz
He was more of a man than you 🙂 me too lol
Christopher Noel Boggess
Hope that helps
Varnel Watson
to wax? Christopher Noel Boggess
Christopher Noel Boggess
Not understanding brother
Varnel Watson
bottom line of your last snap shot above – wax
Christopher Noel Boggess
Ok ill check it out
James Hail
Might it be more appropriate to state “cause to be flesh?” This helps us understand that Jesus “became” a human “being” with no change in or of His Spirit. Just me waxing ?
Brian Roden
Well, unlike the NET Bible, we don’t have the translators’ notes from the KJV. But I’m wondering is “was made” may have just been a common way Elizabethan era English speakers said “became.” We are dealing with 400 years of evolution of the English language.
Varnel Watson
ἐγένετο (the word TO BE) cannot be translated made It means is/was or became at best. KJV editors made willing mistake based on their theological understanding at the time, as in many other places within KJV Where does one get the NET Bible translators notes Brian Roden? What they have included is a few textual comments here and there at best Great work though
Brian Roden
I was referring to the textual comments. It was either a PDF I downloaded, or in my Logos library. I can’t recall at the moment. But I did find it useful for how they interpreted certain prepositional phrases (which main word they were modifying)
Varnel Watson
I know the guy that did the NET Bible and they did strife for a perfect job of translation. I do prefer Darby’s NT in many ways but it is my personal preference. Do you think NET improved NASB in any way ?
Christopher Noel Boggess
Acualy its greek strong number dif
Varnel Watson
Sorry I have not used Strong for over 20+ years
Christopher Noel Boggess
What do you prefer
Varnel Watson
BDAG?
Christopher Noel Boggess
What is that
Varnel Watson
or Kittel https://www.accordancebible.com/store/details/?pid=BDAG
Christopher Noel Boggess
I got stongs and thayers
Christopher Noel Boggess
Thayers version is very good
Varnel Watson
yes Thayers is a classic; everyone gets it in greek 101 but there are way better lexicons nowadays
Christopher Noel Boggess
Its good talking other scholars
Christopher Noel Boggess
This 9ne say come into exsistance
Scotty Searan
Why do you not use Strongs
James Hail
γίνομαι is the word used in our reference text. Strong states the meaning as “a come to be.” Thayer defines it as “to become, i.e. to come into existence, begin to be, receive being.”
I understand this to mean that the physical body came into existence.
Varnel Watson
James which text has it with γίνομαι ? NA/UBS is simply 14 Καὶ ὁ λόγος σὰρξ ἐγένετο
Brian Roden
ἐγένετο is the aorist middle indicative of γίνομαι according to Logos software
Varnel Watson
Sure but γίνομαι isnot whats used here or whats translated
Brian Roden
Looking at Erasmus’ Greek NT (which predates the KJV by almost a century) at https://www.originalbibles.com/ on page 222 shows egeneto.
Maybe instead of a theological understanding, it was their understanding of Greek grammar 400 years ago. Ginomai is what some grammarians call a deponent verb (middle/passive in form, but active in meaning). The KJV translators may have seen it as a passive form, instead of the middle (where the subject does the action to/for itself)
Varnel Watson
Brian Roden James Hail I just did a quick old English versions comparison that shows the line from where KJV took “was made”
Wycliffe And the word was maad man
Tyndele And the worde was made flesshe
Matthews And the worde was made flesh
Geneva And that Word was made flesh
Websters And the Word was made flesh
KJV 1611 And the Word was made flesh
http://textusreceptusbibles.com/Strongs/43001014a
Randy Buchanan
Tried to read the article. This is what came up:
Andy Denny
Why doesn’t the Bible use the word “incarnation”?
The first official appearance of the word “incarnation” appeared in the Nicene creed.
It wasn’t the N.T. Writers decision to describe Jesus this way.
Varnel Watson
I think the greek word for incarnation derives from “became in the flesh” σαρκωθέντα in latin is translated incarnatus and it should literally read incarnated BY (via the act) the Holy Spirit referring to the immaculate conception I love this part Ricky Grimsley
And in one Lord, Jesus Christ,
the only begotten Son of God,
begotten from the Father before all ages,
Ricky Grimsley
What scripture is that?
Varnel Watson
John 1:14
Ricky Grimsley
It does say “before all ages” in John 1:14
Scotty Searan
The NASB comes out in 1963 and the KJV has errors, we can no longer use Strongs Concordance as a way to understand Greek, because they overlooked some manuscripts or somebody found a different manuscript with some words that are different.
Oh my make you wonder if any translation can be trusted
Scotty Searan
I understand the KJV and I can’t understand the newer versions.
Varnel Watson
Good observations Scotty Searan Even NASB is outdated. NET is a good replacement. I still prefer old Darby And NLT is no Bible at all
Christopher Noel Boggess
What do you think of mlt version
Varnel Watson
MLT or MLV – they both claim to be literal
Christopher Noel Boggess
I just got my mlt few months ago i still like kjv over it
Varnel Watson
Have you tried the MLV?
Christopher Noel Boggess
I got the hb mlv
Varnel Watson
what do you think about it?
Christopher Noel Boggess
Its only nt though
Christopher Noel Boggess
It’s ok but some things are better old school
Varnel Watson
start a new MLV thread – let’s see what they fixed and what is better
Christopher Noel Boggess
Ok brother
Diana Kay Miller Sheek
I believe it is because as part of the Trinity of God, Jesus was made flesh because God remained in heaven and Jesus walked among us and had to be what we are.