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| PentecostalTheology.com
In the very center of an argument about the general resurrection, which the Corinthians questioned, Paul says:
Otherwise, what do people mean by being baptized on behalf of the dead? If the dead are not raised at all, why are people baptized on their behalf?—1st Corinthians 15:29 (ESV)
As far as I can tell, no other mention is made of the practice in the New Testament.
So what were the Corinthians doing and why? And does this mention of the practice in a neutral or perhaps even positive light mean that Paul endorsed whatever it was they were doing?
Anonymous
NOW that is a great question for @everyone today … Straight from Paul yall
Anonymous
Obviously referring to loved ones (family members, etc.) who had died prior to having the opportunity to hear the gospel. This might not suit our soteriology, but Scripture should guide our understanding and not the reverse. Paul’s reference shows this to be an Apostolic teaching and not an innovation by the Corinthians. The gospel was literally ‘good news’ and not bad news as so many teach. The gospel can even be preached to the dead and some may hear as also taught in the Scriptures.
Anonymous
Philip Williams Are you a Mormon?
Anonymous
Steve Miller no, a lifelong Pentecostal! I reject the Mormon practice which doesn’t concern places where the gospel has never been heard, or for that matter the gospel itself which isn’t taught by the Mormons. We should not allow Mormon teachings to affect how we understand the Scriptures!
Anonymous
Philip Williams oh you sound like a Mormon this morning
Anonymous
Philip Williams now that I have had a chance to read your comment. I don’t take issue with it. Like I explained to Troy Day, that is the definition if the word translated as “for” is accusative. I will have to do some more study to see if I agree more with your accusative definition or my genative definition. I must admit I did take the genitive side a little bit to tweak Troy just a tad. LOL
Anonymous
Most likely in the name of the Pagan Pantheon, the one that evolved straight from Bable, and became the Roman Catholic trinity.
Anonymous
Jared G. Cheshire oh you sound like a Mormon this morning
what happened to the oneness from Acts 4 or 8 Dan Anthony preaches?
Anonymous
Troy Day I have no idea what Dan Anthony preaches but since I have friends who are mormon, I know exactly what they preach and that is not what I said. Mormons are a form of Arianism, which is roundly condemned by the Word.
Anonymous
Jared G. Cheshire you and Philip Williams both sound like mormons on this one and Steve Miller caught yall and Dan Anthony all together
Anonymous
Troy Day you should repent. Because that is not at all what Mormon sound like. Call when you out for your pagan three-headed god has nothing to do with mormonism.
Anonymous
I just repented and you still sound exactly like a Mormon telling others to repent for judging dead folk baptisms wrongly 🙂 Jared G. Cheshire now you should repent 🙂
Anonymous
Troy Day can’t repent when you make the same boss accusation you’re supposed to been repented from LOL
Anonymous
Jared G. Cheshire boss = patron = oneness = Dan Anthony
Anonymous
Troy Day actually Oneness does not equate with boss and Patron Oneness is more closely aligned with the unity you trinitarians claim. While my biblical understanding of God has not changed my understanding of language has moved me away from using that terminology.
https://youtu.be/H5Z7vPECy9E
Anonymous
Link Hudson do you too have a video about what were the Corinthians thinking /doing / believing / praXicing / for Peter or Philip?
Anonymous
Baptism is only for those who believe, and arguably for children of believing parents who commit to raise them as Christians.
I understand that this verse refers to dead believers who had been unable to be baptized before they died. My mother, who was Orthodox Jewish, confessed the Lord sincerely and publicly on her death bed. She was not baptized. Years later, I realized that I had pain in my heart about My Mom not having been baptized. When I prayed about it, this verse in Corinthians came to me. I was then publicly baptized for my Mom, and have been at peace about it ever since.
Anonymous
tahtS a good one but is it true?
Anonymous
Steve Miller i had a discussion about this with Michael Brown whose father died prior to accepting the Lord. I have more hope for Michael’s father than Michael himself. He raised Michael in such a way that his son became open to the gospel.
For that matter, I agree with the Maccabees and not Martin Luther. We can also pray for the dead. I see you coming Troy Day!
Anonymous
Philip Williams You mean the famous Michael Brown?
“I have more hope for Michael’s father than Michael himself. ”
You mean you have more hope for Michael’s father than Michael has for his father?
Anonymous
so how is this NOT mormon Philip Williams
what does Brown know about mormons
Steve Miller caught you as a catholic-mormon today
but what about Jared G. Cheshire saying the same? https://www.pentecostaltheology.com/browns-politicostalism/
Anonymous
Steve Miller https://www.pentecostaltheology.com/is-dr-brown-indeed-nar-heresy/
Anonymous
Steve Miller is he famous? Yes that Pentecostal preacher going by the name ‘Dr.’ as Pentecostal preachers love to do. But don’t let him do surgery. He might be a medical quack. He’s now doing nutrition.
Anonymous
Troy Day you believe in a committee of Gods, Mormons believe in God and one of his angels who became a god. I believe in an omnipotent, omnipresent, omniscient God who expressed Himself into the literal world, just like the Bible teaches. How is that like a Mormon?
Anonymous
how is yalls stance NOT mormon Philip Williams ?? Jared G. Cheshire I do NOT believe in a committee of Gods – where is this from ?
Anonymous
Troy Day you just an ignorant Pentecost preacher, more ignorant than Dr. Michael Brown.
Anonymous
Duane L Burgess I bet you the $5 Robert Cox spends on fried bacon each morning that neither Philip Williams nor Anthony Tonka Green have a clue what this was
Anonymous
Troy Day I wish!
Anonymous
Robert Cox What were the Corinthians doing when they “baptized on behalf of the dead”?
Anonymous
Troy Day Nothing. Adding to the gospel. There’s no place where the Bible instructs us to do that. Paul wasn’t authorizing it, he was addressing it.
Anonymous
yes sirry Bob – I mean Robert
Anonymous
hey Philip Williams seems like both Steve Miller and Jared G. Cheshire are taking issue with you on this one early in the morning. What up with that now?
Anonymous
Troy Day how could I be taking issue with Philip Williams if I don’t even know what it was that he said?
Anonymous
Jared G. Cheshire What were the Corinthians doing when they “baptized on behalf of the dead”?
Anonymous
Troy Day depends on the context. The word translated into English as four can be, in the accusative, on behalf of, or in the genative, into a place or position. Meaning it could be that they were being baptized in the name of dead or they were being baptized in behalf of those who were dead. I haven’t studied that Passage enough to differentiate which context it is actually using it. In my first explanation I was using the tentative definition. I have seen someone else has used the accusative and that very well could be the truth. As I said I haven’t studied that passage enough.
Anonymous
So many Christians only see Jesus as a personal savior instead of the savior of the body of Christ. Those becoming baptized on behalf of the dead were in a show of faith desiring to bring their loved ones into the body of Christ by standing in a place for them which they could not, it was in effect an act of love.
Anonymous
What were the Corinthians doing when they “baptized on behalf of the dead”?
Anonymous
Did the Apostles baptize someone for the dead thief on the cross? What would be the point? Faith saves us, not baptism. Baptism is an obligation we assume when we enter Christ’s covenant and the first work of faith demonstrating our commitment to imitate Christ and follow Him.
Anonymous
Ken Van Horn was Peter a liar?
Anonymous
Jared G. Cheshire What did Peter say that you allude to?
Anonymous
Ken Van Horn baptism is a sign, an expression of faith. It’s the word not water that cleanses out hearts and mind. But, as Peter says, baptism symbolizes that.
Anonymous
Ken Van Horn 👉even baptism doth also now save us👈
1 Peter 3:21
Anonymous
Ken Van Horn good observation – do you gather from the actual BIBLE text that it was a routine practice for the early church like Philip Williams said
Anonymous
Jared G. Cheshire I don’t think that means what you think it means. The entire passage is speaking in symbolic language. The outward washing of the flesh cannot save. Indeed, we wash the bodies of the dead—is this baptism? Is every corpse now baptized and therefore saved?
Baptism that saves cleanses the heart and gives us a clear conscience. As with Noah, it washes away the evil of the world and gives us newness of life.
Anonymous
Ken Van Horn it was using an example and tying the physical act to the metaphorical change of mindset
Anonymous
Troy Day I would think it more a matter of conscience than of doctrine—as described by Steve Miller.
Anonymous
Exactly… the baptism that truly saves is inward—the cleansing of the conscience through faith in Christ.
Anonymous
Ken Van Horn 🎶you can’t have one without the – o-ther🎵
Anonymous
Jared G. Cheshire Church dropouts
Why did you stop going to church??
Anonymous
Philip Williams Church dropouts
Why did you stop going to church??
Anonymous
Ken Van Horn yes Steve Miller spotted Philip Williams as heretic
Anonymous
Troy Day I don’t know what your talking about. I assemble every week, infact, I refuse to work anymore on the day that the Lord has made, I even drove 7 hours back to be with my assembly the 7 hour back to worrk when I was working on a contract on the other end of the state for a a couple weeks.
Anonymous
Troy Day anything but a Calvinist like Duane L Burgess!
Anonymous
Philip Williams anything ? popish satanism too?
Anonymous
Ken Van Horn I am not certain John Mushenhouse will agree with your stance here and most certainly NOT with Philip Williams or Jared G. Cheshire baptizing the dead
Anonymous
Jared G. Cheshire so far this morning youVE told us everything EXCEPT What were the Corinthians doing when they “baptized on behalf of the dead”?
Anonymous
Troy Day actually I gave two possible scenarios, along with the explanation that I haven’t had a chance to study that Passage in depth enough to give a definitive answer.
Anonymous
The cultural context of that statement has been lost to us. We have no definitive information. We do know, however, that “baptizing for the dead” is NOT something to practice as true saints of the living God. There is nothing anywhere else in Scripture to support such a practice.
Anonymous
Duane L Burgess Exactly. Out of the mouth of two or three witnesses, let everything be established.
Anonymous
The Mormans practice this still.
Anonymous
This is one of those questions which is not proceeded by an answer, so it is up to us to answer. The people with the most knowledge to answer, are those who are being baptized for the dead.
The whole context of the scripture is to teach people that the dead really are raised. There would be no reason to include this scripture, unless people didn’t think the dead was raised.
I think the two questions are pointing out the error in their ways.
Anonymous
Philip Warstler YES indeed – what is your exact answer for Philip Williams
Anonymous
Paul used the third person referring to that practice. It wasn’t “us” or “you”, but “they”. So there’s really no evidence that the Corinthians as a whole did it, and no endorsement of it. But some folks were doing it. Paul’s point was the reality of the resurrection.
Anonymous
Steve Losee Paul doesn’t say that it was a wrong practice. In fact, he uses it In defense of the resurrection of the dead.
Anonymous
The word “dead” is found 3 times in 1 Cor. 15:29. I believe that the first and last “dead” refer to Jesus, and the middle “dead” are the believers.
“Baptized for the dead” refers to baptism in Jesus name…HE is the one who died and is the primary subject of this passage.
Essentially, if resurrection from the dead isn’t a real thing, then why are we baptized in Jesus Name? The name of someone who died…
1 Corinthians 15:29 NKJV
(29) Otherwise, what will they do who are baptized for the dead,(Jesus) if the dead(believers) do not rise at all? Why then are they baptized for the dead?(In Jesus name)
Anonymous
Dan Anthony actually that makes sense with genitive use of hyper. I decided to dig into it a little bit and it is genitive because it is conjoining genitive adjectives and nouns.
Anonymous
Jared G. Cheshire I feel like it ties in perfectly to what Paul is saying previously.
1 Corinthians 15:16-20 ESV
(16) For if the dead are not raised, not even Christ has been raised.
(17) And if Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile and you are still in your sins.
(18) Then those also who have fallen asleep in Christ have perished.
(19) If in Christ we have hope in this life only, we are of all people most to be pitied.
(20) But in fact Christ has been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep.
Anonymous
Jared G. Cheshire And NOWHERE do we see anyone being baptized for the dead in the sense of “I baptize you, Billy, in the behalf of your dearly beloved Uncle Willy…”
But we see “Baptized in the Name of Jesus Christ” EVERYWHERE.
Anonymous
Dan Anthony yep, that is why reading a whole Passage is Paramount to understanding. Chapter and verse division should be ignored. Especially those little headers that translators like to put before a perceived subject change. Reading those causes us to be susceptible to translator bias.
Anonymous
Jared G. Cheshire what about the plural νεκροὶ?
Anonymous
Troy Day surprised you didn’t know this. That is the reason why Dan Anthony believes the first and third death, νεκρῶν, are refering to Jesus, and the second death, νεκροὶ, is ours.
Paul was a Hebrew of Hebrews, it is and keeping with the Hebrew mindset and custom to refer to the supreme of something in the plural form, the same way English uses capitalization. Since Jesus’ death was the Supreme death it was therefore used in the plural and our death being subject to his death in the singular. I would have missed that if I had not began studying this passage today. Before you brought it up, it had not stuck out in my mind as a conflict.
Anonymous
Jared G. Cheshire there is NO need to know something that is NOT in the BIBLE – they baptism was about the νεκροὶ – DEAD plural IF Dan Anthony is saying νεκροὶ – DEAD plural is Jesus, are yall now believe in a mono-plural Triune God like Philip Williams or whats the deal ?
Anonymous
Troy Day absolutely not. If you don’t know the culture, then you don’t know the context, and you won’t understand the language. That is completely refuted in let us make man in our image used in conjunction with singular verbs. Singular sounds always go with singular verbs and plural nouns always go with plural verbs except in the case of Supremacy with the Hebrew language. In those cases the Supreme of anything will use the plural form for the noun but because it is singular it will use the singular verb. While Paul wrote 1 Corinthians in Greek, he still had the hebraic mindset that would have pluralized anything that had to do with God to show His Supremacy over all.
Anonymous
but I do know the culture Jared G. Cheshire and I know the Greek
and by your logic IF plural dead refers to Jesus
you refer to him as PLURAL – and that’s just plain wrong
Anonymous
Troy Day it’s not referring to him as plural in this scenario, it is referring to his death in the plural as an indication of Supremacy. If you knew the culture, you would have understood that.
Anonymous
Jared G. Cheshire while this may or may NOT be so according to Dan Anthony according to the BIBLE plural nekros is used 130 times in the NT and not even 1 single time in the sense you are saying John Mushenhouse may confirm this with a more in-depth exegesis but the text is clear https://biblehub.com/greek/3498.htm
Anonymous
Jared G. Cheshire Troy refuses to see the plural used as an indication of Supremecy because he refuses to see Jesus as Supreme…he won’t even baptize in Jesus name..
Anonymous
Dan Anthony not @ all there is PLENTY of plural used as an indication of Supremacy for the TRINITY in the BIBLE as Duane L Burgess Philip Williams already showed to all oneness folk here and thereafter
Anonymous
Troy Day Romans 4:24 refers to Jesus’ death in the plural, I found that in just a quick cursory check. Did He die twice? Or perhaps some of that hebraic perspective is coming through in Paul’s writings?
Anonymous
no not really Jared G. Cheshire Romans 4:24 says JESUS was raised FROM/out of / from within the dead [plural] not that the plural dead refer to JESUS as Dan Anthony said unconvincingly and unknowingly https://biblehub.com/interlinear/romans/4-24.htm
Anonymous
Troy Day
Media: https://l.facebook.com/l.php?u=https%3A%2F%2Fmedia2.giphy.com%2Fmedia%2F6yRVg0HWzgS88%2Fgiphy.gif%3Fcid%3D999aceack20ddn3b2gmaw3ic3nz0zitp84qdgqdwe8dvb02y%26ep%3Dv1_gifs_search%26rid%3Dgiphy.gif%26ct%3Dg&h=AT2mseKsH1zDwzTZ188p7gNy5qqrUnhTBhm7-SeawoTgnpzCsC3B-QtFp_pm1btwDNv9jzysINOuEDtHkxMeF4I1l7B3BFeXPOCJQJ5dXFMN9gi_Dvs2bVgJ6B-1zZwl&s=1
Anonymous
Jared G. Cheshire not sure that even John Mushenhouse would know this
Anonymous
Dan Anthony how do you mean? virtually NO where does
“Baptized for the dead” refers to baptism in Jesus name
and Link Hudson John Mushenhouse Duane L Burgess has proven it
Anonymous
Troy Day ???
Anonymous
Link Hudson do you feel
“Baptized for the dead” refers to baptism in Jesus name
like Jared G. Cheshire feels?
Anonymous
Troy Day I don’t see where I have disproven anything about it. The passage doesn’t explain it and there isn’t really anywhere to go in history or tradition, as far as I can tell, to explain it.
Anonymous
Link Hudson I don’t see it anymore either
Anonymous
Paul was making an analogy/argument. He argued from a pagan, unbiblical practice (don’t tell the proof texting Mormons that) to biblical resurrection truth.
He was not endorsing the practice as valid or biblical/Christian.
If you pagans are baptizing for the dead, how is this a thing if there is no resurrection?
Paul also quoted pagan poets as a launching point to move from error or generic truth to fuller Christian truth. This is not an endorsement of all of the pagan writings or beliefs.
Jesus also used arguments that started from their wrong understanding and common ground to advance a fuller, truer understanding.
Anonymous
Dan Anthony Jared G. Cheshire genitive use of hyper dowhat now? John Mushenhouse Duane L Burgess at times even I am genuinely surprised with Greek
Anonymous
what about the plural νεκροὶ Dan Anthony anyone there?
Lamont
Words and how they are marked are vital for interpretation. It must be noticed that Paul writes using a third person plural verb. Thus, he is not writing about a practice of his and his associates or even of the Corinthian leadership who were the principle addressees of this correspondence. Baptism for the dead was practiced by a fringe group who did not believe in a resurrection of the dead. Paul is simply pointing out that these people are logically inconsistent. Why baptize for someone who will not be resurrected? Q.E.D.
Anonymous
So many mysterys no one knows for sure , unless our teacher has light on the scriptures ! I did want to comment on the reality of Gods blessing on faithful tithe payers ! And the reality of giving restitution to those worthy! If you have been injured , there are things that can be done to help the situation ! As the powers to be can do what ever they choose and most would agree ! Now rather than file and demand a long drawn out court case , to drag hundreds through the mud to show wicked evil they said and did ? Why not just make a blessing for them and stop.the bleeding ?.there are ways to do many things , by the powers to be ? Ever been slandered and you know computer records would prove one million percent their guilt ? Hey grandpa got a cell ph ? Fact when push comes to shove better have been living Holy ! Your mouth and tongue will hang you high ! The Chinese are experts on all of you all ! Just saying, I know God is going to bless , how He does it ? He will.find a a way , I even bought a lottery ticket , I felt led to ? Hey you never know ? Idk maybe we need to go to a long drawn out fight ? I hope not ? Thoughts comments ? Praying🙏🔥
Anonymous
Tom Williams what is a mystery? Philip Williams John Mushenhouse
Anonymous
Troy Day sorry I just typed for 15 min and fake book.made it all dissappear.
Anonymous
Troy Day well just typed for 15 min it all disappeared.again
Anonymous
Tom Williams sorry – type it again