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I reject any view of Eschatology that leaves the Bride of Christ broken down and beat up. Stadium Christianity is our inheritance. and Yes, it is Latter Rain
John Kissinger [01/27/2016 6:43 AM]
Many question if Mass #evangelism work in today’s culture? http://www.pentecostaltheology.com/does-mass-evangelism-work-in-todays-culture/
David Lewayne Porter [01/27/2016 8:08 AM]
I hope you are correct,
I do believe in the revival that is coming ((the wheat and tares growing up together unto harvest (but notice the tares grow as do the wheat))). The revival will come at a deep and extreme price and cost.
The Latter rain was not a blanket rain but a rain to refresh the dry spots and areas in order to get the crops through until harvest. (The dry, needy spots).
Look up David Wilkerson and The Spirit of Anguish.
We also have to figure into That Great Revival the following:
Religious persecution:
the very reason the book of Acts took place was because of The Persecution of the Church and them disbursing.
The Foxes’ Book of Martyrs states more Christians have been martyred since 1900 (until now) than in history before 1900.
Acts 14:22 happened right after Paul was stoned and left for dead
Acts 14:22 Confirming the souls of the disciples, and exhorting them to continue in the faith, and that we must through *Much Tribulation* enter into the kingdom of God.
THE CHURCH has been told
“to him that overcometh”
Over come what – easy living and untold blessings?
Rev 2:7, 11, 17, 26
Rev 3:5, 12, 21
Rev 21:7
We are point blank told (without any need for interpretation)
Revelation of John 11:7
And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.
Rev 13:7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.
8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.
9 If any man have an ear, let him hear.
10 He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.
I visit this one again because It is one of my favorites
Rev 3:21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.
22 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.
It tells us we will go through what Christ did *even as I also overcame* which involved major suffering – which can not be denied (physical, emotional, suffering in ways we can’t fully comprehend at this time).
Let’s not forget
Mark 10:38 But Jesus said unto them, Ye know not what ye ask: can ye drink of the cup that I drink of? and be baptized with the baptism that I am baptized with?
39 And they said unto him, We can. And Jesus said unto them, Ye shall indeed drink of the cup that I drink of; and with the baptism that I am baptized withal shall ye be baptized:
40 But to sit on my right hand and on my left hand is not mine to give; but it shall be given to them for whom it is prepared.
(Restated in Matt 20:22&23)
Here is how it turned out for them
(Screen shot attachment).
Be blessed.
Ricky Grimsley [01/27/2016 9:23 AM]
The bride wont be beaten up because the bride is new jerusalem. In all the parables, we are the wedding guests. We are the body of christ.
John Kissinger [01/27/2016 9:31 AM]
Ricky – Peter thinks its the Church, NAR thinks its the kingdom-now and on earth
Ricky Grimsley [01/27/2016 9:35 AM]
The bible seems pretty clear?
Revelation 21:9-11 KJVS
[9] And there came unto me one of the seven angels which had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues, and talked with me, saying, Come hither, I will shew thee the bride, the Lamb’s wife. [10] And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God, [11] Having the glory of God: and her light was like unto a stone most precious, even like a jasper stone, clear as crystal;
Ricky Grimsley [01/27/2016 9:42 AM]
I dont believe we will experience the wrath of God either. However, I dont believe the wrath of God starts until sometime after the midpoint of daniels 70th week. Up until then its the wrath of satan and man.
Peter A Vandever [01/27/2016 9:56 AM]
What do you do with Revelation 22:17?
Ricky Grimsley [01/27/2016 10:01 AM]
The spirit and the bride say come? Jesus and his bride are inviting the wedding guests to a wedding feast just like the parables of jesus and alsoMark 2:19 KJVS
[19] And Jesus said unto them, Can the children of the bridechamber fast, while the bridegroom is with them? as long as they have the bridegroom with them, they cannot fast. He doesnt say bride
David Lewayne Porter [01/27/2016 10:02 AM]
The bride is (yes – New Jerusalem).
NEW JERUSALEM is clothed with the righteousness of the saints Rev 19:7 Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.
8 And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.
The exact same as Eph 5:27
25 Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it;
26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word,
27 That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.
28 So ought men to love their wives as their own bodies. He that loveth his wife loveth himself.
29 For no man ever yet hated his own flesh; but nourisheth and cherisheth it, even as the Lord the church:
Interesting
And continuing:
31 For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh.
32 This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.
We also are not just (guest)
We are children of the bride chamber.
Interesting study there, very interesting
Matt 9:14 Then came to him the disciples of John, saying, Why do we and the Pharisees fast oft, but thy disciples fast not?
15 And Jesus said unto them, Can the children of the bridechamber mourn, as long as the bridegroom is with them? but the days will come, when the bridegroom shall be taken from them, and then shall they fast.
Mark 2:19&20, Luke 5:34&35
Children of the bed (bride) chamber.
Not just friends – as He has also called us, not just as servants – as He has also called us, not just His Church – as He has also called us, not just heirs and joint heirs – as He has also called us, not just sheep – as He has also called us…
But Children of the bridechamber (place of intimacy).
Great, deep thought.
Ricky Grimsley [01/27/2016 10:11 AM]
Personally, i think if you take emotion and preconceived ideas out of eschatology and study “the day of the lord” and cosmological signs, you come to the “pre-wrath” position. It still satisfies all answers.
Ricky Grimsley [01/27/2016 10:12 AM]
I would love it if anyone would watch this and discuss it with me.
David Lewayne Porter [01/27/2016 10:35 AM]
Funny, I am PERSONALLY pre wrath, but I teach no one knows when so be ready now.
When I teach on the rapture I point out 6 of the 9 theories
Pre, mid, post tribulation
Pre, mid, post wrath
The other 3 do not concern me.
But and yet again I teach no one knows the day, no one knows when we will be called into eternity so be ready now.
Today is The Day of Salvation
Ricky Grimsley [01/27/2016 10:47 AM]
Any day could be our last. But there is a time in the pre-wrath position where the return of Jesus is actually imminent.
Peter A Vandever [01/27/2016 10:49 AM]
The Bride is saying come, it is a place of prayer “Come, Lord Jesus, come.” It is also a call to the nations “Come to see Jesus the Bridegroom.” The Spirit is crying to humanity, come and experince the power and presence of God….. It is a promise of revival!
Ricky Grimsley [01/27/2016 12:18 PM]
There are many different subjects here. There is the spirit, the bride, him that heareth, him that is athirst, and whosever will? How many brides are there?
Peter A Vandever [01/27/2016 12:39 PM]
The Bride of Christ is you and me, bro! Jesus is the Bridegroom.
Ricky Grimsley [01/27/2016 12:42 PM]
I know almost everyone believes that but the scripture says the bride is new jerusalem and we the guests in the words of jesus and in his parables.
Peter A Vandever [01/27/2016 12:46 PM]
Not in Revelation 22. I have never read anyone that says that is NJ. Read the context; It is about the people of God in revival.
Ricky Grimsley [01/27/2016 12:53 PM]
I want revival too but the lamb’s wife is new jerusalem. Its directly quoted. Revelation 21:9-10 KJVS
[9] And there came unto me one of the seven angels which had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues, and talked with me, saying, Come hither, I will shew thee the bride, the Lamb’s wife. [10] And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,
Peter A Vandever [01/27/2016 12:54 PM]
Revelation 22:17 is not the same issue. It is the closing of the book and it is about the glorious End time harvest.
Peter A Vandever [01/27/2016 12:55 PM]
By the way, Who is the Lamb’s wife? It is the blood bought Church. We are the citizens of NJ.
Ricky Grimsley [01/27/2016 1:01 PM]
Ok i dont have that particular notation in my bible but i respectfully disagree. Personally i think revival is going to come from persecution and sign and wonders but thats just my opinion.
Charles Page [01/27/2016 5:48 PM]
Those nails were driven so we could have relationship with our Heavenly Father. That is the basis of Penal Substitutionary Atonement!!!
Charles Page [01/27/2016 6:22 PM]
Eschatology doesn’t leave the Bride broken it is the Churches that do that. I reject a church that leaves the bride broken and abandoned.
Varnel Watson
Eschatology doesn’t leave the Bride broken it is the people that do that. I reject ppl who leave the bride broken and abandoned Ricky Dont you?
Ricky Grimsley
Revelation 21:9-10 KJVS
[9] And there came unto me one of the seven angels which had the seven vials full of the seven last plagues, and talked with me, saying, Come hither, I will shew thee the bride, the Lamb’s wife. [10] And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,
Ricky Grimsley
De he get raptured again?
Ricky Grimsley
Doesnt this say that new jerusalem is the bride?
Varnel Watson
Nope. He was already taken UP now he is carried me away…
Varnel Watson
Terry Wiles THIS
Terry Wiles
Troy Day me too
Terry Wiles
The next time I get married, I’m going to be the Bride. (line from a song by Neil Enloe
Robert Franzen
I haven’t read the article but I sure do like the title;)
Louise Cummings
Amen.
Varnel Watson
YOU LISTEN to it for your self and form your own opinion https://factba.se/transcript/donald-trump-vlog-deleted-iran-occupy-wall-street-november-16-2011
Varnel Watson
YES I do Philip Williams Paul Graham leaving the church during Trib, church not going to Heaven at all and other heretical teachings are the reason WHY we dont have revival anymore in this country supporting NAR candidates for presidents and so on illogical impractical lala-land utopia-like mid-evil church thinking that ushers the antiChrist Thys Marais WOULD THE CHURCH GO TO HEAVEN? Heaven or the resurrection?
I wonder why so many funerals in churches focus on the deceased being ‘in heaven’ and the need for the audience to die and go to heaven, when there isn’t any direct scripture about your disembodied spirit going to heaven when you die. Paul does say he would rather be absent from the body and present with the Lord. But some people even take that passage as a rapture passage, seeing the body as the temporal body, a tent that will be shed and replaced with the incorruptible.
But the emphasis when it comes to this topic is certainly the return of Christ and the rapture. Paul refers to the deceased as asleep in Christ. He even tells believers, when talking about death to ‘comfort ye one another with these words’. What words?
‘The dead in Christ shall rise first, and they which are alive and remain shall be caught up to meet the Lord together in the air, and so shall they ever be with the Lord.’
If Paul commanded believers to comfort one another when someone dies with words of the resurrection and rapture, why isn’t this THE verse that is always read at funerals? Why skip this verse and talk about something that the Bible doesn’t emphasize or even directly mention– dying and going to heaven? I can’t find the ‘hope of heaven’ in the Bible. I’ve heard it in sermons. I can find ‘the hope of the resurrection’ and the hope of Christ’s return.
I had a conversation with an Englishman who’d settled in New Zealand and who was serving as a dean at a Bible college in Indonesia. He was a gifted teacher and also gifted in prophecy, and gave a word over me that hit the nail on the head, part of which was a repeat of a word I’d just gotten elsewhere.
I had a conversation with him after a sermon once, and said something about ‘going to heaven when you die.’ He said to me the Bible never once mentions going to heaven when you die. I knew that, but I’d still spoken the religious verbage I’d heard so much. But his words stuck with me.
This one of those areas where we hear something so much in church that it effects our thinking, even if it isn’t really something that we read in the Bible. Living in a mostly Mus|im country, it also made more sense to speak in terms of the resurrection, since that was an aspect of their religion that coincided with what the Bible taught, that there would be a resurrection of the dead and that they would be judged. That was an emphasis in Paul’s evangelism. http://www.pentecostaltheology.com/would-the-church-go-to-heaven/
Wal Ters
I often hear ppl saying that it would be so “perverse” to let the church suffer in the end times.
Then I wonder if these friends have ever read about the sufferings of the church through the ages! or about the martyrs! come on!
Persecution has always made the church holy and willing to die for the Kingdom of God.
Tim Huff
Wal Ters we r going through tribulation (not the great tribulation)now around the world but the great tribulation is nothing like earth have seen since the beginning of time..
Jesus stated was not cut short no one would survive
Wal Ters
who says that?, who makes that difference of being or not being there? not the Bible, just pretrib speculations. But the Bible does not make that difference, on the contrary it points that the church is very likely there at that time!
The same way that pretribers speculate that there are two second comings of Christ, when the Bible says that there’s only one.
Varnel Watson
Tim Huff is about right Our bro Wal need to read the words of the apostle Paul telling the church encourage each other with the words of the Rapture AND then John the revelator I will take you out from the hour of tribulation Neil Steven Lawrence
Neil Steven Lawrence
Troy Day The just like the Jews did not know there will be two comings of the Messiah so today people get confused about the nature of the second coming wanting to compress the rapture into the coming on the Whitehorse.
Alan Yusko
true.. it makes no sense that the Church.. the bride of Christ will suffer the wrath of God.. 1 Thessalonians 1:10 “And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come.”
Scott Stewart
I like how new Jerusalem looks like a borg cube. First time I’ve seen a closer to biblicial picture of the new city!
Varnel Watson
seems like another cube Neil Steven Lawrence
Mike Forfar
i reject unbiblical garbage like the pre trib rapture
Varnel Watson
Mike Forfar then you have to reject mOST of the early church that believed in it of which you are obviously not aware
Clement of Rome (30-100) spoke about the Rapture in his First Epistle to the
Corinthians. Following the logical flow of his teaching from chapter to chapter yields the
result of a Pretribulation Rapture of the Church. As Irenaeus did, Clement first gives
Enoch as an example and then mentions the Lord delivering Noah (chap. 9). He also
mentions the Lord saving Lot (chap. 11) and Rahab (chap. 12). Then, he speaks
specifically to the Church in chapter 23, [emphasis added] “Compare yourselves to a tree:
take [for instance] the vine. First of all, it sheds its leaves, then it buds, next if puts forth
leaves, and then it flowers; after that comes the sour grape, and then follows the ripened
fruit. . . . Of a truth, soon and suddenly shall His will be accomplished, as the Scripture
also bears witness, saying, ‘Speedily will He come, and will not tarry;’ and, ‘The Lord
shall suddenly come to His temple, even the Holy One, for whom ye look.”44 And
following directly after this in chapter 24
Ephraem of Nisibis (306-373 a.d.), which clearly teaches that believers will be raptured and taken to Heaven before The Tribulation.2
Ephraem of Nisibis was the most important and prolific of the Syrian church fathers and a witness to early Christianity on the fringes of the Roman Empire in the late fourth century.
He was well-known for his poetry, exegetical and theological writings, and many of the hymns of the early Byzantine church. So popular were his works that in the fifth and sixth centuries he was adopted by several Christian communities as a spiritual leader and role model.
This sermon is deemed to be one of the most interesting apocalyptic texts of the early Middle Ages. The translation of the sermon includes the following segment:3
“For all the saints and Elect of God are gathered, prior to the tribulation that is to come, and are taken to the Lord lest they see the confusion that is to overwhelm the world because of our sins.”
Mike Forfar
i dont care what any of those ignorant mutts wrote. i only care what Jesus and Paul said. they did not believe in a pre trib so neither do i .
Varnel Watson
Mike Forfar yeah You kind a need to care what the Church Fathers wrote if you claim to study church history for 30years but have never read them – just saying 🙂 BTW JESUS and Paul and John said pre-Trib rapture FYI
Ral Mel Scharf
You reject Daniel 7:25
He shall speak words against the Most High, and shall wear out the saints of the Most High, and shall think to change the times and the …
Varnel Watson
who is You? I accept Daniel 7:25 I am even inclined to believe that it is Trump speaking RichardAnna Boyce
Mike Forfar
this is referring to the pope of Rome
Ral Mel Scharf
Troy Day ??”Trump is the Antichrist.. dude u need some help. Hopefully the TDS vax will be out soon.
Bjørnar Rekkedal
Alot of words without meaning. No bride is “left”. The term you use “broken down and beat up” the Church have been many times trough history. The Prophets, Apostles and the early martyrs was beaten, tortured and feed to the lions among other things. In the flesh.
Though they rejoiced in the Spirit. To be worthy of being persecuted for Christ sake.
You reject the Word of God. You reject recorded history.
For what? So that you can escape tribulation and persecution?
Romans 8
35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? 36 As it is written:
“For Your sake we are killed all day long;
We are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.”
Jason Corkran
I don’t care what article you found on strawmantheology . Com.
Views that deny a pre-trib rapture DO NOT teach that God beats up the bride. All you are flaunting is your ignorance of other people’s position.
Lito Nartéa
You reject Revelation 7:9-14 too.
Faye Rod
If you notice in the parable of the wedding feast, it is the GUESTS that are being invited, the Bride has already been chosen. The Bride is the 144,000 of OC believing Israel who have been sealed by the Spirit of God for redemption at the first resurrection, and it is they who will reign with Christ during the Millennium. Every believer, since then, who has come to the knowledge of salvation, are to be raised at the general resurrection to be given entrance into the Eternal Kingdom, after the restoration of all things IMO
Fadi Frank
https://youtu.be/5V4bM6TabUE
Ty Moore
what? you don’t force your bride to gravely suffer and be tortured to prove herself worthy of you? i thought all bridegrooms did that? and you call yourself a husband…
Varnel Watson
Larry Shannon does your reform theology still leave the BRIDE on earth during the Great Tribulation ?
Larry Shannon
YES
Kent Anderson
Ed Woods Bride of the Golden Cube City?