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NEW COMBINED TOPIC ON NAR (old one was deleted by facebook – http://www.pentecostaltheology.com/a-combined-topic-on-nar/ )
3 recent posts brought together a combined topic on NAR, Social Gospel and Liberation Theology, which have an influential place in the Pentecostal tradition. William DeArteaga republished a 1996 interview with the author of Fire from Heaven, John Kissinger reported Cuba’s new opening for Bibles and religion and John Ruffle touched on the topic of New Apostolic Reformation.
Post 1: Dr. Harvey Cox (Baptist) of HDS wrote his book Fire from Heaven as a response to his previous work The Secular City in which he basically declared the end of the Christian religion as we know it. His observations were predominantly among South American Pentecostals who came out of the Social Gospel movement with certain trends and/or affiliation toward Liberation Theology. More specifically, he wrote about the Pentecostal revival in Brazil, which claimed over 2mln. members during that time. Cox had limited observation on North American Pentecostalism and virtually no observations on European and African Pentecostalism, or even the Asian Pentecostal movement, which at that time was much stronger than any other Pentecostal group in the world.
Post 2: Cuba was closed for Christianity during the Social Gospel era, but many report that Russian global export of communism affected Liberation Theology even in relevance to some communist countries (as Cuba) where religion was otherwise long banned.
Post 3: Fresh out of Fuller Seminary, with some years of missionary experience in South America, Dr. Peter Wagner established the New Apostolic Reformation (NAR). Like Cox, Wagner took what he observed within South American liberation theology and brought it a step further. Perhaps for this very reason, the new apostolic theology (oddly combining gifts and ministries of the Spirit with reformed post-millennial eschatology) greatly appeals to Pentecostal movements in countries which were somehow organizationally oppressed (post-communist, ex-colonies, etc.).
Is there a connection between these three theological trends, in your opinion? If so, what is it and does it chart a new theological direction among Pentecostals in North America, in other geographical regions or even globally? And most importantly, what follows next?
John Kissinger [12/08/2015 9:31 AM]
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2521723/posts
John Kissinger [12/08/2015 10:06 AM]
What better way for Moscow to discredit Marcuse than have his student GUTIERREZ write a know-how book on Christian Revolution i.e. Social Gospel Liberation Theology? At least in the case of Venezuela, Chavez, KGB and liberation theology are very well connected http://venezuelanalysis.com/analysis/2312
Terry Wiles [12/08/2015 10:51 AM]
They greatly appeal to the people in oppressed countries simply because their religious leaders, I won’t call them apostles, come to power with twisted words and false prophesies and saturate the television (much lower cost) and put their people under greater bondage while they get fat cat rich.
The NAR in the counties I serve in Central and South America is better described by the words of Jesus in Mathew 24. “Many false prophets will arise and deceive many”
John Kissinger [12/10/2015 12:02 PM]
Is Barth saying the opposite of Wagner ? In the Church of Jesus Christ there can and should be no non-theologians. ~Karl Barth http://apostasyalert.org/REFLECTIONS/wagner.htm
John Kissinger [12/10/2015 1:37 PM]
just for reference (as reminded just now by William DeArteaga ) http://www.amazon.com/Looking-Over-Wall-Psychological-Exploration/dp/1479200611
John Kissinger [12/10/2015 2:42 PM]
what do you think about KGB and liberation theology Link ?
Link Hudson [12/10/2015 6:34 PM]
Sounds likely that they are behind it. Modern feminist thought has also been highly influenced by Marxist philosophy. Women take the place of the poor proles. This serves as a good warning against allowing us to be too influenced by the winds of doctrine in our culture when interpreting scripture.
John Kissinger [12/10/2015 6:39 PM]
read the whole thing before you cross-post Link Hudson http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2015/december-web-only/cs-lewis-secret-agent.html
Link Hudson [12/10/2015 11:46 PM]
John Kissinger
Link Hudson [12/10/2015 11:47 PM]
I don’t know what you mean by that comment. Did you read my post? The article about Lewis is interesting, but it’s a different topic.
Link Hudson
Do many of the NAR people actually believe in post-mil eschatology, or do the churches just sort of leave eschatology alone, but have a ‘positive’ philosophy and philosophy regarding being ‘salt and light’ that seems to fit with a post-mil philosophy? I am thinking may be the latter in a lot of cases.
Varnel Watson
Philip Williams would you say under Trump many Pentecostal groups like AG cog cogop and others are moving toward kingdom-now theology as we have discussed with Angel Ruiz
Varnel Watson
HELLO Angel Ruiz
New Apostolic Reformation Came to Repulse and Exclude a New Christian Who Had Been Converted from “Extremist Atheism” to New Birth in Christ Jesus in a Church Caught Up in That Very Movement. Hallmarks of the NAR Movement and Scriptures Which Count It. Her Precious Testimony as Read from Her Email, and Details of Preacher’s Own Story of Coming Under Conviction.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aP4k64vOomU
Link Hudson
I listened to this. One of his criticisms about the NAR is he says that they run down other preachers who have been preaching the word of God for years and years. I don’t know what he’s talking about, though. Couldn’t someone hear his sermon and think he’s doing the same thing with NAR preachers? Is the difference that he is not naming names. Some of them have been in ministry for decades and came up through the Charismatic or other movements.
I don’t care for the general gist of the idea of apostleship that I think the NAR believes in. Some of their beliefs seem kind of ill defined, but the general idea seems to be the idea that there is supposed to be another level of hierarchy on top of the church, men called ‘apostles’ who are either one level up in the hierarchy or just men with mentor-mentee relationships with pastors of churches. If these and the prophets are in the right positions in the church, then all kinds of good is supposed to come of it.
Some of them think a church has to have a prophet has a church government role in its hiearchical structure. I don’t know where they were supposed to get that idea. It is not in Ephesians 4:11.
The problem is, though, what is an ‘NAR’ church? If they believe in apostles today, they get dubbed NAR, but they may not all believe the same thing.
The woman in the testimony did get saved, though, from what she said, through some of these folks. I am concerned when churches stop paying attention to the Bible, use it in a very light way, and focus too much on emotion and stuff that sounds exciting. I’m sure there have been plenty of Pentecostal preachers who were the same way, but with a different set of issues or doctrines than NAR. It’s not anything new. I wouldn’t paint all NAR folks with a broad brush, though. The movement is pretty diverse.
I also wonder if all the people bloggers and posters say are in the NAR know they are in the NAR. It’s the same question I’ve asked when I’ve talked to someone who thinks movie stars or singers are in the Illuminati….. In this Illuminati theory of yours, do the members of the Illuminati have to know they are in it to be members? I”m not saying the NAR are Illuminati, but if posters and bloggers are the ones saying who is in the movement, not the people themselves, there is a bit of a problem with definition.