Practical application of Pentecostal theology in politics, economy and social issues
And why did the Jews think Jesus was saying that he had seen Abraham when Jesus just spoke of Abraham seeing his day (and therefore him)?
John 8:56-57 (ESV)
56 Your father Abraham rejoiced that he would see my day. He saw it and was glad.”
57 So the Jews said to him, “You are not yet fifty years old, and have you seen Abraham?”
What is the logical progression here? Is there a translation issue?
I’m looking for how the Jews leaped to questioning that Jesus had seen Abraham rather than questioning how Abraham had seen this day. If you can show how they would be fine with the latter, you still need to solve why they think Jesus is claiming to have seen Abraham (and not the other way around). Or said differently, how did Abraham seeing Jesus’s day also mean or necessitate that Jesus had seen Abraham?
The main question remains how and/or when did Abraham see Jesus’ day, but I want to make sure your answer then informs our understanding of the Jew’s response.
Brian Roden
Is this limited strictly to those in recognized Pentecostal denominations, or would you include people like Craig Keener (who started in the AG but is now ordained in a Baptist denomination and teaches at a Methodist seminary, and who contributes much from a Pente/Charis perspective in his scholarship)?
Varnel Watson
Keener though Methodist is recognized in Pentecostal denominations
Paul L. King
Troy Day Craig Keener is not Methodist. He just teaches at Asbury
Donald Dayton
And to complicate things Asbury is not officially Methodist but an independent seminary in the holiness tradition.
Brian Roden
Paul L. King Correct, he is ordained in an African-American majority Baptist denomination.
Varnel Watson
dont that make him Methodist enough?
Paul L. King
Troy Day Depends on what you mean by Methodist. Oral Roberts was credentialed as a United Methodist minster, and a member at the Boston Ave. UMC in Tulsa.
Philip Williams
Craig Keener beliefs that Noah’s Flood is borrowed ANE myth!
Varnel Watson
oh well – most of them out there do
Philip Williams
Troy Day but that’s looking down on Jesus. How can that possibly be worship of him?
Maybe he thinks that Jesus was just another 1st century miracle worker. And I don’t see him as having much focus on Jesus, his Creator, Savior, and king.
Varnel Watson
Land
Klaus
…
Help me out I am struggling with the rest when it comes to actual Pentecostal theology
Brian Roden
Frank Macchia
Lee Roy Martin
Karkainen
Wolfgang Vondey
Varnel Watson
yes I would go with Macchia
Anonymous
Frank Macchia
Lee Roy Martin
Karkainen
Wolfgang Vondey
Amos Yong
Craig Keener
Paul Lewis
Troy Day
https://www.pentecostaltheology.com/