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Jim Price | PentecostalTheology.com
It seems that every other day or so the subject of homosexuality comes up on this site and the attitude and the blanket condemnation is the same as I have heard all my christian life. I think that I never knew a homosexual ( that is for sure ) until maybe the last ten years or so. Now I know of and have observed about six for the past decade. They live quite lives, have adopted children, take care of their aging parents and go to work each day.
It seems to me that only about 2% of the population are homosexual and that the percentage has held steady as for as we can tell by studying history. In no case do they fit the description we find in Genesis 19: 20 where we read; ” extremely evil and that everything they do is wicked.”
We find many strange things in Genesis, with questions still unanswered. So Abram slept with Hagar. Why did God allow that if He knew that He was going make Sarah pregnant? Then we have the conversation between Abraham and the Lord where the Lord said that He would spare the city if only ten could be found that was innocent. Surely the percentage of righteous people in our country is greater than in Sodom.
Another observation is that the men acted more like a gang or gangsters V 5 and then this unbelievable statement by Lot; ” I have two virgin daughters. Do with them as you wish.” V 6
I have read this story over and over again for years and it still is a puzzle and made even more so when one reads about the overwhelming love and mercy one finds in the New Testament.
Steve Webb
Overwhelming love and mercy is fine. Homosexuality, though, like any other sexual sin, is a sin. That’s also in the New Testament. Should we condone sin just because they are “good” citizens? Should we warn that good without Christ and turning from sin still leads to hell?
Sin is a condemnable offense, period. We can’t condemn, but we also can’t condone. Romans is very clear that if you condone homosexuality then you are equally guilty of the sin.
John Conger
whaaaaaa???? you mean ministers and leaders who commit adultery, embezzelment , or thef and simply get moved from church to church deserves as much outrage as homosexuals???? thats crazy talk
Daniel J Hesse
We might do well to find ways to reach the community with God’s love.
Daniel J Hesse
Who knows what might happen.
Varnel Watson
Bro. Jim Are you saying homosexuality is not bad. What exactly are you saying?
Jim Price
That’s a complicated bill and is likely to make things worst for all party’s concerned. When I was in the printing and publishing business I refused to print for the KKK, they could have sued but I explained in a kind way that I just didn’t feel right producing their material. I did the same for a night club. State legislators are known for creating work for their lawyer friends.
Varnel Watson
All such bills are complected. Just look at the GA pastor protection http://www.pentecostaltheology.com/everything-you-need-to-know-about-the-pastor-protection-act/ But I cannot agree that the Bible is wrong about the spirit of homosexuality being aggressive and destructive to our humanity John Conger Steve Webb
Steve Webb
Why is it suddenly terrible to ban immoral behavior. For many years, in every state, deviant sexual behavior was a punishable offense in society. It isn’t complicated. But too often we’ve lost sight of important matters. If the church stood strong we wouldn’t need illegal interference from government to dictate our lives.
John Conger
why is homosexuality treated different than adultery and fornication is the question?
Varnel Watson
John Conger There’s a difference in the equality rights political fighting http://www.pentecostaltheology.com/churches-and-schools-fear-gay-marriage-ruling-could-end-tax-exemption/
Ricky Grimsley
Homosexuality is a sin. It is not consistent with a christian lifestyle. That said, we have to make sure that we have a consistent gospel. Two preachers slapping each other on that back and lusting after a pretty girl that goes by is just as much a sin being gay. We all have flesh and with that comes desires that we have to say “no” to to live holy. We have to preach the truth but we need to live the truth as well. Are we as quick to call out alcoholics, dirty joke tellers, gossipers, fornicators, non-tithers, people in adulterous marriages, etc.?
Terry Wiles
Read “After The Ball”, they’re own manifesto and understand their agenda or “Making Gay OK” and you will discover the reason for God declaring it a sin.
Terry Wiles
The issue of gay marriage is about far more than sexual practices. It is about the transforming of the very fabric of society; the radical reordering of society’s views of reality.
John Conger
i know a lot more family’s that have been torn apart by adultery
Varnel Watson
Terry Wiles Gay Is Now OK for Presbyterian Clergy http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2011/05/11/gay-is-now-ok-for-presbyterian-clergy/
Karen Lucas
For Pentecostals, especially Wesleyan Pentecostals who traditionally place a high value on scripture and consider the nature of scripture to be instructive and transformative, the issue is not whether homosexuals are sinning. That’s a given for anyone who takes scripture and the tradition of the church as being a good indication of what orthodoxy should entail. The issue is how we should treat homosexuals and prepare to minister to them and what role should they or any blatant sinner or addict be permitted to engage in on the local church level. The question is, how should churches respond to the LGBT community? How do we speak truth in love to them? Are we able to have a “Come as you are.” mentality?
Jim Price, I think the problem you keep bumping into is the way you interpret God’s will in scripture. Good dies not intervene in human decisions, he tries to influence them instead. He wants us to choose him. Soon confess when we don’t. Destruction of various kinda come add a result of poor decisions. The Bible merely recorded that fact with much of these stories you are referencing from the Old Testament. The New Testament also contains several very clear references to homosexuality and other sexually deviant behavior as sin and also as an indication of a society or a mind that had reached a point of moral depravity. The guesswork confess in to say, “This is what some of you were!” In other words, there is redemption. Many Christians are former homosexuals, adulterers, liars, thieves, etc…. God knows how to redeem people’s lives and the time. That’s the good news….even for homosexuals who think they were born that way. We are all born in sin. All of us are born bent towards one or more particular types of sin…..BUT God who is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from All unrighteousness. That’s the good news.
Jim Price
Well thought out response.
Jon Ray
So does this meaning going soft on the subject? Terry Wiles http://www.trunews.com/assemblies-god-pastor-walkout-after-lgbt-rebuke/
Terry Wiles
Jon Ray – To some it will. To the rest of us…
Nathan Hellrung
We can’t go soft on the “subject” but can go soft on the “presentation.” What I mean is this. We can’t go around doing things like the Westboro Baptist “church” who say that, “God hates fags,” and such. That is no way to reach a lost and dying people. The approach must be soft but the message stays the same. Jesus and the woman caught in adultery is a prime example of how we should treat the lost. He didn’t condemn her, showing her love, but also commanded her to go and sin no more, which was also a loving thing for Him to do. We are to love the sinner and hate the sin. I don’t think the pastor in the first comment above is wrong for his stance, especially since he was speaking to supposed believers in his own congregation. God bless.
Robert Borders
The media and political climate has blown up this issue to epic proportions along with the abortion issue. We are largely seeing political smokescreens to keep people agitated against Christians and to push secular humanism along under the cover of darkness. We have better things to do than to bash people and to lose what little impact we have left in our culture and society. There is a spiritual battle going on that seeks to wipe true Christianity off the map but the real villains are not the people that we typically attack from our pulpits.
Ricky Grimsley
I talked this issue last night in bible study. Sin is still sin and it still send people to hell. However, we all can have desires not pleasing to god that need to be crucified. Traditionally church people i have known see homosexuality at such a heinous sin but didnt have that big of a problem with a busybody or having unforgiveness. We need to remember that christ died all when we were yet sinners and show love. However, that live will require telling the truth, not just to gays but also the big tithe-paying manipulator, racist, adulterer and so on.
Robert Borders
I have found that generally all people will ask me sincere questions about their spiritual lives if they know that they will not be based. I have had the privilege of being friends with numerous people who are gay or even involved in witchcraft and paganism. Treat people with respect and they will come to you when ready to talk about their spiritual needs. We too often try to control people above and beyond our responsibility and as pastors it does become easy to fall into control freak mode.
Ricky Grimsley
I agree. Jesus didnt change lives with condemnation but with love and the power of the Holy Ghost
Varnel Watson
Ricky your 501c3 article falls short here. Even if churches remain under 501 members will be leaving because of hard preaching. Seems like sifting of the weeds is in the times we’re living in
Robert Borders
People do not necessarily leave due to hard presching. When I first came into the COG 45 years ago most of the preaching I heard was “clothesline preaching” and was directed at external holiness demands for women. Women shouted their hair down when preachers shouted that the world was going to hell. I found that people did not want to hear about God’s grace or God’s love. By the age of 20 I began to question what the relationship was between the Bible and the way we did church. God has normally allowed me to see into the future as to what He will be doing through His church but normally I am told that I am being rebellious if I share what I think what God is saying to His Church.
Ricky Grimsley
No doubt people are becoming more and more polarized but we have stand for what is right but with love and the power to set people free.
Varnel Watson
This is sad! What does it matter if you are 501 or IRS exempt if your congregation is walking out on you because of he homosexual issue?
Ricky Grimsley
It is sad. People need to hold on to the truth of God’s word no matter the cost.
Robert Borders
This subject is always a hot potato in the church. I do have friends that are openly gay and would love to attend traditional chirches rather than gay churches but fear to do so because they assume that they would not be accepted. Some were raised COG and were gifted singers and would love to lead worship again. There are networks of Pentecostal or Charismatic groups of gay persons who speak in tongues and love God. These persons have often been through prayer and deliverance but have not been set free. I treat my gay friends like anyone else and realize that many become severely depressed because they miss the church and having an accepting network of friends.
Richard Gault
A cross less church tells gays you don’t have to change. Jesus says, pick up your cross and follow me, even if you have same sex attraction for the rest of you life. It is sin and never will it please God to act out homosexual desires. What happened to self denial ?
Tim Law
I Corinthian’s 6:9-10 gives God’s directions on what the church should believe and teach.
David Lewayne Porter
Speaking as one with a professing and practicing homosexual brother::
Would Jesus leave them this way without the charge to, “go and sin no more”?
And let’s look at, “1 Corinthians 10:12-13 Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall. There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.”.
They have the same temptation to deal with as the rest of us, “1 John 2:12-17
I write unto you, little children, because your sins are forgiven you for his name’s sake. I write unto you, fathers, because ye have known him that is from the beginning. I write unto you, young men, because ye have overcome the wicked one. I write unto you, little children, because ye have known the Father. I have written unto you, fathers, because ye have known him that is from the beginning. I have written unto you, young men, because ye are strong, and the word of God abideth in you, and ye have overcome the wicked one.
Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.
For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world. And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever.”.
It is simply their cross,,,,
The lust of the eyes
The lust of the flesh
And
The pride of life.
(If) God made them that way then He made a way for them to bear it in a Godly way and manner.
We need to remember James 1:12-17, “Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him. Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:
But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.
Do not err, my beloved brethren. Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning.”.
Speaking of deliverance, prayer, and being set free; (it is being made free – not set free),
There is a reason Jesus asked some of those that he dealt with, “wilt thou be made whole”….
People in this generation do not understand BEING MADE WHOLE.
Paul Hughes
There is lots of “blanket condemnation” in the Bible. For instance,
1 Cor 6:9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, 10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
So “don’t do the crime if you can’t do the time.”
ALL you need to know about the gay homosexual issue from a theological point of view
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