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Melvin Harter | PentecostalTheology.com
The folks who adhere to Progressive Sanctification also, perhaps without full realization, believe in Progressive Salvation.
Terry Wiles
No. Saved by Grace, through faith. Not of works, ever
Melvin Harter
Study where the Progressive Sanctification (which is what I believe you adhere to) had its beginnings. If you do not know, you will find it starts exactly where my initial posting is written.
Terry Wiles
Still no explanation of your distinctive doctrine. And yes. I believe sanctification is a progressive work of the Holy Spirit. One day in heaven we will be perfect as He is perfect and pure as He is pure. Today, “in Him” we are more than conquerors and called to follow in His footsteps and “become” the new creation He is making us become. Thank you for not imputing to me your judgments. Please offer any explanation of your beliefs that you you think might be helpful. Blessings.
Melvin Harter
But Bro Wiles, you have never studied the history, and in particular, the initial history of Progressive Sanctification. Why don’t you take a look at that aspect of what you say you believe?
Terry Wiles
Still no explanation of your distinctive doctrine. See previous post (two up) for the imputing statement. 🙂
Melvin Harter
No, the subject of this posting Bro Wiles is there is a relationship with those (including yourself) who believe in Progressive Sanctification likewise believe in Progressive Salvation. So let’s deal with the subject posted.
Street Preacherz
if it’s not to far off topic Dr. Melvin Harter would it be fair to mention Isaiah whom God cleansed and sanctified and fit for service. With a coal from the altar. Mentioning also we have a better covenant not in the blood of bulls and goats but in the blood of the spotless Lamb of God. He’s pretty thorough. Sometimes he’ll ask you, some times he’ll just smite you. Would that be allowed in a good Bible conversation?
Melvin Harter
You see, most Progressive adheres simply accept everything they hear some preacher preach or teacher teach regarding what is known as “Progressive Sanctification.” Perhaps they even grew up in a Progressive church. But they have never really studied out the scripture. It requires a lot of work and study, as well as the Holy Spirit, to really search the scriptures. First of all, a true scholar will always search the scriptures with an “open mind.” They will not consider anything or anybody’s view; they only seek the truth from the holy writ. Regarding our redemption, the Apostle Peter states the phrase in 1 Peter 1:18, “from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers.” I am afraid that many Christian leaders have learned the necessary elements on church growth and how to get a crowd of people together. But they have failed in the one essential point, “knowing the true Word of God.”
Street Preacherz
Dr. Melvin Harter. Im not trying but in on your conversation. Honest. But you say we study scripture another that confronted me was, Jeremiah 31:34
“And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.” As a Christian we know him in the forgiveness of sin but it’s more of an introduction. The natural man scoffs. The natural man could never stand in boldness by Jesus Christ and say I know God. Not a hypocrite unless they’re self deceived.
For me? I often say, Jesus. Yeah I met him one time. I hope I never deny that.
Varnel Watson
here here – been trying to tell this to Walter Polasik who does not believe in salvation in a zap. Progressive sanctification folk should also adhere to OSNS – once saved never sanctified Link Hudson f.ex
BTW Melvin Harter most modernistic churches also believe in progressive baptism with the Holy Spirit. They say they got the Spirit but dont even know nothing about no tongues coming along with it This shall be called OBNS – once baptized but never spoken in tongues
King James Bible (and there Exodus 19:10)
And the LORD said unto Moses, Go unto the people, and sanctify them to day and to morrow…
But LORD said Moses in the new progressive Bible, cant be done in a zap You will have to wait until the eschatological end of the whole creation unto eternity
Forget it, sayeth the Lord, in my Bible – I NEVER KNEW YOU !!!
Link Hudson
Troy Day, some of those people were firstborn, and may have already been sanctified according to Exodus 13, and then got sanctified again in Exodus 19. We get sanctified when we become new creatures in Christ Jesus. But we also have to be sanctified along the way.
As far as ‘progressive sanctification’, I believe Christians from the get-go have grace to avoid sin and live for God. They don’t have to have a crisis experience for that, after they get saved. Where is that taught in the Bible?
That’s the issue. Show it to us in the Bible. That’s the challenge for Melvin Harter that he never did in our conversations– show us in the Bible.
Link Hudson
Sanctifcation is an ongoing thing. We can continue in a sanctified state.
Link Hudson
Do you believe in once sanctified always sanctified?
Link Hudson
Btw Troy Day, about Exodus 19, notice that.
1. The people were to sanctify themselves. They weren’t told to sit around waiting for an emotional experience that was supposed to hit them.
2. They were to wash their clothes.
3. They were told to abstain from sexual relations?
Do you believe in being sanctified as a matter of choice, something we choose to do? Are we sanctified by washing our clothes and not having sexual relations with our spouses?
Link Hudson
Can someone who is entirely sanctified lose his salvation?
Melvin Harter
I have had indepth discussions with Link Hudson. He rejects the Koine Greek that explains clearly the doctrine of Sanctification in the NT. He admits he is not a Greek Scholar. It is a waste of my time to have further discussion with Link Hudson. He states he wants me to show him in the Bible. Well, I already done that many times. He wants to continue to believe in Progressive Sanctification. That is his prerogative. However, he is far off base in his theology as it relates to this blessed doctrine.
Link Hudson
No. You haven’t shown me in the Bible. Who has an issue with ‘santctified’ being a completed action in the past in some passages? That is not evidence that it occurs after salvation. Paul lumps being washed sanctified and justified together in I Corinthians 6. It Is false to say I reject the Koine Greek and comes off as rather unsanctified. You fell short of actually presenting a case for your viewpoint. Trying to make yourself out to be an expert and accusing those who disagree doesnt substitute for evidence for your case. Saying the Greek proves it doesnt prove it and many Greek scholars would disagree with you.
Gabroo Shah
I feel OSAS is big reason for lust n racial ways in church. It gives them easy way out while they enjoy Sinful path. Living in Christ or Works wont save in OSAS theory.
Dan Irving
We are sanctified by CHRIST (Heb. 2:11), and yet, we sanctify OURSELVES (II Tim. 2:21) . How is THAT? What has happened, is that Christ has provided the MEANS of our sanctification through His a atoning sacrifice. (Heb. 10:10) This is the place wherein which we ABIDE and continually RESORT as the SOURCE of which we WERE sanctified, are BECOMING sanctified, and shall ever REMAIN sanctified. While God may reveal Himself (through Christ) in a sudden and powerful (sanctifying) work upon the soul, this is not a magical moment aloof from this principle of ABIDING, RESORTING, and REMAINING in the place of the Cross. Therefore, this principle “progressive sanctification” is something of a misnomer, as we are already “sanctified,” what we require is maturation and perfecting into His Holy IMAGE.
Varnel Watson
Topic worth paying attention to
Varnel Watson
Paul Hughes Walter Polasik In a recent planning event of the Wittenberg Summit for the 500th anniversary of the Protestant Reformation, we were in the company of some charismatic scholars and theological supports of the Kansas City prophets. During the deliberations, it was remembered that in his 2004 book on Radical Holiness (https://www.amazon.com/Radical-Holiness…/dp/0966748115) Peter Wagner renounces the reformed holiness doctrine he learned at both Fuller and Princeton; only to recognize and promote a world-wide Pentecostal embrace of Wesleyan sanctification theology. He even goes in detail to list various denominations Wesleyan sanctification like Nazarene, Salvation Army and Church of God (he points out the one in Anderson, IN).
Soon enough after the meetings, I was able to review and re-read the book since my first read was years ago. Wagner not only embraces Wesleyan sanctification theology, he speaks of the holiness standard as a legal action under the Law and the believer as made ready to be holy and sinless within this lifetime and before meeting Christ physically in the resurrection reality of the after life.
It made me think how important entire sanctification and holiness lifestyle is not only to Pentecostals but to Chariamstics and obviously even ultra Charismatic theology. The Bible is clear that one cannot be a true Pentecostal believer if does not believe in entire sanctification and practice life of holiness. But with Wagner’s book in hand, it is clear that one cannot be even a Charismatic without holding entire sanctification and practice life of holiness… Melvin Harter
Paul Hughes
Why do you keep harping on Entire Sanctification, Troy Day? Don’t you know of any other Pentecostal issues? How about encouraging people to seek the Baptism in the Spirit? How about talking about learning to “walk [progressively] in the Spirit” as Paul taught? How about encouraging fruit of the Spirit, which is the essence and intended result of “progressive” sanctification, and also “gifts” (“graces”) of the Spirit, which are meant to edify the Body of Christ?
What is edifying, and not on the contrary divisive, about telling people they have to get a total sanctification experience or they are lesser Christians, and maybe not saved at all?
Eph 2:4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, 5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;) 6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus: 7 That in the ages to come he might show the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus. 8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
Varnel Watson
Paul Hughes because we are still a holiness church. This is what all early Pentecostals believe and pushed for – sanctification; hence a holiness movement There is no church without holiness sanctification
Do theological streams that you represent believe one can be filled with the Spirit without being cleaned and sanctified first? Do you believe the Spirit can enter unclean and unsanctified heart? Please answer this question asked already a dozen times
Adam Matthew Thomas
Question Sirs, when exactly did the Holiness movement begin? Also explain to me about sanctification from the Holiness prospective. Thank you and GOD BLESS!!