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Peter Vandever AKA Conversation Starter
I am sick of people posting “the church is deployed.” The church is NOT deployed. The church is running into their homes in fear. There is not actually deployment actually happening. Where are the conversions? The miracles? Signs and wonders?
God does not use people partnering with the demon of fear and insecurity. You are not going to reach anyone when you are afraid of of some flu on meth.
If people want to coward back and self-isolate from the harvest, do it. However, do not pretend you are “deployed.”
Being so WILL require you to hug broken people and lay hands on people who may have or not have this virus.
That’s real deployment. Until you are willing to do that, you are NOT deployed.
IS THE AMERICAN CHURCH COWARDING FROM ITS CALLING IN MIDST OF CRISIS?
by Peter Vandever
Let’s be VERY clear about something. The American Church is cowarding back from its divine calling in the midst of crisis. The call of the Church is to be the salt, the light and the city on the hill.
Let’s revisit the Spanish flu in 1918. The world was dying off but the Pentecostal church was having healing meetings in tents all over America. People came to the healing revival with expectation that the Holy Spirit would come in healing power.
Hebrews does NOT say “forsake not the assembly unless there is a virus.” That is not in the Greek or any copy of the book that we have preserved. It just is not there. The Church should be the answer to the crisis, not part of the crisis.
I have been saved since 1996 and I have never seen so much demonic fear among the faithful. We are called to be people of faith, not fear. We can pretend that it is about “wisdom” but wisdom is not rooted in fear.
As Lindell Cooley used to say, “If He is still God, He will still do it.” The same Holy Spirit that anointed the Pentecostals in 1918 is here and alive today. Our response to that is very telling.
IS THE CHURCH PEOPLE VS BUILDINGS NOW THAT WE CANT GET TOGETHER?
By Peter Vandever
I hear people say we are “being the church” because we can not meet. This is hogwash. You can’t “be missional” hiding in your closet in fear of anyone that gets within six feet of you might have a virus. The early church went from house to house but they did leave their own. Just saying.
Evangelism right now is more critical than ever. However, most are living in fear. They won’t dare go out and hug a homeless man or share a meal with a prostitute. They might get this “super flu.”
You can’t “be the church” living in fear from your couch. It requires you go where the people are and enter into their world. Ministries and believers won’t do that out of fear of this virus.
Don’t say you are “being the church” living in demonic fear and pretending it is “wisdom.” Want wisdom? Try Proverbs 11:30
Of the 39 states that have implemented stay at home orders, 12 make exceptions for religious gatherings.
A revival held at a church resulted in an outbreak of the virus in Hopkins County, Kentucky, and the governor reminded the public Wednesday that those exercising the exemptions still hold a responsibility to take precautions to the virus. “The ramifications when we don’t follow this, end up being widespread and they hurt people that didn’t make that choice,” said Gov. Andy Beshear. “Let’s make sure that we’re responsible in the choices we make to protect those around us.” Here’s a list of states that still allow some form of religious gatherings during the stay at home orders:
Arizona
Religious services are exempt as an essential activity because worship is protected under the first amendment of the Constitution. However, the exemption specifies that the services are exempt as long as they “provides appropriate physical distancing to the extent feasible.”
Colorado
The state allows houses of worship to stay open as long as they are using an electronic platform or are practicing social distancing. Services from religious leaders are also allowed for individuals in crisis or for end-of-life services.
Delaware
Along with social advocacy, business, professional, labor and political organizations, religious organizations are exempt.
Florida
The state recognizes attending a church, synagogue or house of worship as an essential activity along with caring for loved ones, pets and recreational activities that comply with social guidelines.
Kentucky
Kentucky makes an exemption for life-sustaining business and religious organizations that provide “food, shelter, social services, and other necessities of life” for people disadvantaged or in need because of the pandemic. However, the organizations must social distance as much as possible, including ending in-person retail.
Michigan
Michigan also makes exceptions for operations, religious and secular, that provide necessities for those in need. The state also does not subject places of worship to penalties for breaking orders when they are used for religious worship.
New Mexico
The state does not include congregations in a church, synagogue, mosque or other place of worship in the definition of “mass gatherings” that are barred.
North Carolina
Traveling to and from a place of worship is exempt from the executive order as “leaving the home and travel for essential activities.”
Pennsylvania
Religious institutions are exempt along with lifesaving and sustaining operations, health care, child care for employees of life-sustaining businesses, news media, law enforcement, emergency medical fire fighters and the federal government.
Texas
Religious services, if they cannot be conducted at home or remotely, can be conducted as long as they are consistent with guidelines from the federal government and Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.
West Virginia
Attending a place of worship is considered an essential activity in the state along with going to the grocery store or gas station, picking up a prescription or necessary medical care, checking on a relative, getting exercise, and working essential jobs.
Wisconsin
Religious facilities, groups and gatherings must have fewer than 10 people in a room and must adhere to social distancing requirements.
The nationwide move to close churches, synagogues and mosques as part of the broader effort to slow the spread of the coronavirus is meeting some new resistance.
In a new “safer-at-home” order banning many activities, Florida Governor Ron DeSantis Wednesday said “attending religious services” is among the “essential” activities that would be permitted. The order came two days after the arrest of a Tampa pastor, Rodney Howard-Browne, who held worship services in defiance of a local ban on large gatherings. That ban is now effectively overruled.
Governors in several other states have also designated houses of worship as providing essential services and thus exempt from shutdown orders. Those provisions have come in the wake of criticism, largely from conservatives, that any order to close churches constitutes a violation of the principle of religious freedom.
Liberty Counsel, a legal advocacy group that represents evangelical Christian interests, agreed to represent Howard-Browne and harshly criticized the move to force churches to close.
“Why is it the church can’t meet when it has a constitutional right to do so and has undertaken extraordinary efforts to protect people, but commercial businesses can meet with no constitutional protections and many do nothing to protect anyone?” the organization said in a press release.
A coalition of Catholic leaders on Wednesday similarly issued an open letter calling on authorities to recognize religious services as essential and pleading for the allowance of “some form of a public mass,” especially at Easter.
Many churches and other houses of worship have been forced to close in response to government bans on public gatherings of more than ten people. It is not yet clear whether the broadening move to include religious institutions as essential will allow churches, synagogues, and mosques to reopen.
In several states that do not explicitly mandate church closures, religious leaders are strongly recommended to suspend services.
An executive order issued Tuesday by Texas Governor Greg Abbott explicitly designated religious worship as essential and thus exempt from a mandate that “every person” in the state “minimize social gatherings” and “in-person contact,” and it overruled the local bans on large gatherings that had forced the closure of many Texas churches.
Legal guidance issued in connection with Abbott’s executive order, however, advised that houses of worship “must, whenever possible,” conduct their activities remotely.
Varnel Watson
a SPECIAL announcement Has the CHURCH LEFT…?
The church is NOT deployed. The church is running into their homes in fear. There is not actually deployment actually happening. Where are the conversions? The miracles? Signs and wonders?
IS THE AMERICAN CHURCH COWARDING FROM ITS CALLING IN MIDST OF CRISIS?
IS THE CHURCH PEOPLE VS BUILDINGS NOW THAT WE CANT GET TOGETHER?
Doyle Rogers
The scripture says Eph 2:19 Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;
Eph 2:20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;
Eph 2:21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:
Eph 2:22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit. ……………2Co 3:2 Ye are our epistle written in our hearts, known and read of all men:
2Co 3:3 Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables ( BUILDINGS ) of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart.
Joe Absher
“..not in tables (BUILDINGS) of stone ” is an abuse of scripture by you. Tables of stone in this context isn’t the church building .
Exodus 31:18 KJV — And he gave unto Moses, when he had made an end of communing with him upon mount Sinai, two tables of testimony, tables of stone, written with the finger of God.
Varnel Watson
has yhou church left Doyle Rogers Jim Price Neil Steven Lawrence
Neil Steven Lawrence
I hope so. Its been inside for too long!
Doyle Rogers
The scripture also says . Heb 10:23 Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised;)
Heb 10:24 And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works:
Heb 10:25 Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching. ………………………………..I hope our not being able to get to gather is just temporary.
Varnel Watson
Doyle Rogers what question do you NOT understand Pls stop with the copy paste spam Its irritating
The church is NOT deployed. The church is running into their homes in fear. There is not actually deployment actually happening. Where are the conversions? The miracles? Signs and wonders?
IS THE AMERICAN CHURCH COWARDING FROM ITS CALLING IN MIDST OF CRISIS?
IS THE CHURCH PEOPLE VS BUILDINGS NOW THAT WE CANT GET TOGETHER?
Doyle Rogers
YOU WROTE.Pls stop with the copy-paste spam Its irritating…..I HOPE I HAVE MISUNDERSTOOD YOU …..BUT…. IF YOU ARE IRRITATED WITH ME SENDING COPIES OF SCRIPTURE.VERSES.AND YOU CONSIDER THEM SPAM.I HAVE NO MORE TO SAY TO YOU. Rom 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. .
Varnel Watson
Doyle Rogers its copy pasting the same thing over and over We’ve read it but makes no sense NOW pls tell us how do you connect it with the discussion
Doyle Rogers
The essence of what I have written is that the Church is a spiritual institution. It is the Spiritual body of Christ. The building where the Christians gather is not the Church. . but it is made up of the assembly of the saints………………………………………………………………..ekklēsia
ek-klay-see’-ah
From a compound of G1537 and a derivative of G2564; a calling out, that is, (concretely) a popular meeting, especially a religious congregation (Jewish synagogue, or Christian community of members on earth or saints in heaven or both): – assembly, church.. It is not a building of wood and stone it is the Saints of flesh and bone. It is not shut down Churches are gathering at many different places across the world . They even gather on FACEBOOK. DISTANCE IS NO PROBLEM TO THE HOLY SPIRIT..
Varnel Watson
Doyle Rogers so I guess you did not read the post and what Peter Vandever The church is NOT a building BUT it is a gathering that cannot be done online OR drive-in the car
Jimmy Pearson
Troy why not? What prohibits the church from gathering online or as a drive in? I’m not aware of any scriptural basis that forbids the practice. Granted it’s not ideal but it’s also not permanent.
Varnel Watson
A.J. Bible did you shut down your church too or not yet?
Doyle Rogers
I am a retired pastor of over 60 years service over the eastern seaboard of the U.S. I don’t read every opinion that comes down the pike. nor do I give them credibility. My pastor spoke at an outdoor theater last Sunday where people were in their cars and I understand there were hundreds there..( I was working with another small group a few miles away.) both groups would be considered a church . .
Varnel Watson
Doyle Rogers so am I and many others in this group Around here this cant get you even fries Did you get fries with your drive-in on Sunday?
I have to agree with Peter Vandever on this one The church has been degraded to a move theater To a drive through restaurant SOON you will be able to punch a menu and pay tithes with your credit card WAIT we already have that – – – BTW if you are gonna COMMENT yes by all means read first instead of spam-copy-n-paste
Doyle Rogers
The church buildings. are like the book, we call the Bible It’s not the paper nor the ink not the threads that hold the book together. It is the power of the Holy word of God that JESUS TOLD SATAN ..”.IT IS WRITTEN.”.. THE WORD THAT GOD SAID …Isa_55:11 So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it…To me IT IS FOOLISHNESS (under any circumstances) TO CALL IT SPAM. JESUS SAID …….Joh_6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life..AS FOR BEING REPETICIOUS WITH THE WORD,…I understand it though it is repeated seven-times ……. the person that heard it, still has not received a revelation of what is said………1Co_2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
Varnel Watson
but even the pages of a book Doyle Rogers have to be brought together or they mean nothing apart from each other
Doyle Rogers
I agree with you about the continuity of the Bible . It is as a fine piece of linen woven together. The threads of the warp and the woof of the weft can be pulled from it until it becomes no more than a tattered rag ………….. But I believe ( in his church ) God sees and deals with each of us as individuals as well as his corporate body.
Varnel Watson
Doyle Rogers uh-m No You can believe that of course but right BEFORE the Communion Jesus prayed that we are made ONE
Varnel Watson
why did the FB arrested the Harvard professor?
Neil Steven Lawrence
Because he gave away US tech secrets to get filthy lucre from the CCP. This is also because he is a Communist like so many University profs today.
Varnel Watson
Neil Steven Lawrence but why did the church leave the building? was it forced by the FB ban too?
Neil Steven Lawrence
Troy Day no the FB ban toward the church is still to come. The current persecution focuses on limiting Christians reach via the algorithm. If you say Wuhan virus, China virus, CCP, Jesus, abortion, homosexual, liberal, communist, SJW, muslim, socialism, illegal alien, etc. in a negative light your posts and FB influence will be pushed down the chain by the algorithm. Sorry I just downgraded your group by many bytes and bits!
Varnel Watson
Neil Steven Lawrence well Peter Vandever is wrong about the age There are plenty of young ministers below 40 As a matter of fact we included them in our voting process a few years back along with women and its has been great