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The Case for Christian Socialism: Both the Capitalists and the Liberation Theologians Are Wrong “For I was hungry and you did not give me to eat; I was thirsty and you gave me no drink; I was a s
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Scotty Searan Jan Dixon Sykes Churchill has made the point finer than ever will but just to say it again that Christian socialism is but a philosophical oxymoron
Neither Acts ch. 3-7 make case for Christian socialism
Nor the jewish kibbutz system
The kibbutz system is actually a temporary migrant camp until democracy and republicanism was bestowed upon the newly found Israeli state
Socialism also differs by the early Church community in Acts ch. 3-7 by the fact that in Acts it was the Holy Ghost that selected the people not a socialist party. You show me just ONE of your so called socialism structures where the Holy Ghost elects leadership. May be sometimes soon on the Moon, but for right now on Earth there aint none
Purely theologically speaking, the very notion, expressed in the writings of Gustavo Guttierrez and Juan Luis Segundo, that private ownership of the means of production should be eliminated, and workers, peasants, and farmers left to the mercies of total nationalization and deprived of the right to own their own enterprises or work their own land, even as part of a cooperative. (A cooperative, though a form of socialized property, is nonetheless private property.)
But, you interject, “Whoa there, this isn’t socialism!” You’re wrong. This is precisely how socialism started in the early nineteenth century, before Marx got his collectivist teeth into it. This is what the Christian socialists such as John Ludlow, Philippe Buchez, and Archbishop Ketteler meant by socialism, what even secular socialists like Robert Owen, Louis Blanc, and Ferdinand Lassalle meant by socialism. And this is precisely how post-Marxian socialism is evolving in the modern era.
Proof: The Socialist International, a federation of non-communist socialist parties, has since 1951 operated under a charter known as the Frankfurt Declaration, which not only defends the legitimacy of “private ownership in… agriculture, handicraft, retail trade, and small and middle-sized industries” but also proposes the wide use of consumer and producer cooperatives. The Declaration also calls for the maximum decentralization of economic power consistent with “the aims of planning,” and the maximum participation of workers in “the direction of their industry.” And although they do not use the term “socialism” and would put a lesser emphasis on public ownership, this is how the U.S. Catholic Bishops tend to describe a Christian economy in their recent pastoral.
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Troy Day I have never endorsed Marxism socialism or communistic socialism
But despite what you say the Bible does teach Christians socialism and the communal system probably what I should say it is in the Bible in Acts the second chapter all the way through the 6 chapter of Acts
Marxism socialism and communism socialism is an atheistic system which I disapprove of completely and I want no part of that in in that respect
Marxism socialism and communism socialism they take what they want by force and it is rule by a secular that is unfair in its Administrations the rich stay Rich the poor stay poor it is still a covetousness situation
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Scotty Searan I already showed why there is NO way around that Even the so call christian socialists endorse Marxism Simply no way around it I dont know what else to say about socialism
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What was going on in the early church and being taught was the gospel of the Kingdom in its pure unadulterated form that many people including you Troy Day and myself cannot comprehend
This was the Gospel of the Kingdom expounded on by Jesus Christ and talk to his disciples everyday
You will notice that all including the disciples sold their possessions and no one claimed possessions as their own but had all things in common they did it out of love for the brethren I believe that why the people did this was not because of what Peter James and John and the disciples talk at the day of Pentecost but it was also what Jesus had taught his disciples and talk the people in the streets on the hillsides in the houses in the temple also evidently it was making that kind of impression because they had heard Jesus teach these things he told the man the rich man that all he needed to do to be perfect was to sell what he had and give to the poor but he went away so horrible because he would very rich Zacchaeus in the tree salvation went come to his house that is what Jesus said and the conviction hit his heart so much that he took half of what he on and gave to those that he had done wrong or to the poor Jesus even talk that if you ask for your coat give me your cloak also a very strong people about when we saw people in various conditions and we did not help them what was that was a kingdom of God communal gospel
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Troy Day these were so-called Christians if they were Christians they would not have endorsed it the Marxism socialism are the commonest socialism they were not Christians to do that
Guest;
that is what the devil wants us to see he wants us to think that they were Christians when all the time by their fruits they were not Christians by what they were expounding on
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what was in the book of Acts in the early church was the total epitaph of love being shown to humanity and it was growing by Leaps and Bounds in Jerusalem and that is why the church began to suffer persecution because the results of true love for the brethren which they did not see even in the Jewish law but they were seeing it in the lives of the Christians who was living out the kingdom of God and so the only way they could try to tear it down and the devil was doing it was to get in their hearts and persecute the church the church split up and went because of persecution it was persecution that drove Israel out of Egypt in the long run because they were being blessed by God despite the persecution by the Egyptians
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What cause the failure of the so-called Christian socialism Troy Day that is you expound on is that they were not following the leadership of the Holy Ghost they were picking out man who were not full of the Holy Ghost as examples that was their failure they were using Satan and they were deceived by his examples and I am not deceived by Marxism socialism nor communistic socialism because of atheistic and full of the devil but I am standing on what the word says and I am not denying and I am not calling it something else that ain’t so Troy day tell me what you called what happened in the early church in the first six chapters of Acts give me a name because there was of some kind of system there give me a name you tell me that ain’t socialism you tell me it ain’t communal but give me a name I want to know what you call it you cannot deny it it’s in the Bible if you denied you might as well done gospel
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Scotty Searan I dont think you are really a christian socialist. Neither you appear to know what exactly that thing christian socialism is. This is why I am confused why you take socialism discussions so personally when they are neither discuss you nor your convictions. This is what we know about the so called socialism in itsl expression as liberation kingdom-now theology:
Marxists’ false notion, embraced by liberation theologians such as Gustavo Gutierrez and Enrique Dussel, is the idea that the employer-employee (wage) relationship is of its nature and of necessity evil, enslaving, and alienating. Since power tends to corrupt, the cooperative relationship is better than the employer-employee relationship, but even cooperative workers must be paid wages and work under bosses. Public employers, as in the Marxist vision, can be even more oppressive than private. Nevertheless, some public ownership is necessary, as popes and bishops have acknowledged.
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Scotty Searan your approach toward the socialist discussion is like which one is first – the egg or the chicken; all and while I am telling you the egg is not from a chicken but from a snake… Your take on this pls David Rollings
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William DeArteaga Jan Dixon Sykes https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2017/nov/8/communism-victims-remembered-on-bolshevik-revoluti/
RichardAnna Boyce
A passage that has both intrigued and challenged me is 2 Corinthians 8:13-14:
“For I do not mean that others should be eased and you burdened;
but by an equality, that now at this time your abundance may supply their lack,
that their abundance also may supply your lack that their may be equality.”
Paul was surely talking primarily about material needs, but does this principle also apply to spiritual needs?
Paul was a good person to comment on relative needs and means of the churches. He had a rare “bird’s eye view” of the situation.
His view was not provincial or cloistered by the walls of a local church.
Paul’s concern for the poor saints in Jerusalem and his familiarity with the material resources (or lack thereof) of his churches was based on his travels and visits.
He was truly a world Christian fully aware of both material and spiritual needs in
the churches.
It must have pained the apostle to visit a church where the believers lived in
luxury after he had just spent time with those struggling to eat 1 good meal a day. What could he say?
He couldn’t pull a biblical trump card to demand that they distribute their wealth. There is none.
In the context of the same passage Paul championed gracegiving (2Cor 9:7,15).
All he could do is remind people that there are great needs and inequality in wealth and there is a moral responsibility for believer to help believer,
for one child of God to help his brother or sister.
Varnel Watson
that case is fake news after all
Eddie Burdick
Paul was writing to the church not all
John-Mark Neal Hales
Socialism is a very evil and unbiblical ideology built on envy and theft. The early church was very charitable, which has nothing to do with socialism. Socialism forces the redistribution of resources, but Peter and Paul only encouraged voluntary gifts to fellow believers. Acts 5:4
George Hartwell
Of course, the thrust of socialism is Christian in spirit and attitude. The Biblical ideal is there are none poor among you. That, my friends is God’s heart for your community and nation. Jesus healed all and Christians are behind providing medical services. God’s heart is to see all healed or at least with medical care. Social service is an extension of the Christian virtue of hospitality. The good intention is there. Clearly biblical and hardly evil.
John-Mark Neal Hales
The intention to better the welfare of poor people is where socialism’s good qualities begin and end. All other teachings (i.e. property is the theft, rich only achieved wealth due to oppression, etc.) are evil.
Furthermore, socialism’s method of implementation by means of theft and force has no biblical support. The closest comparison in the Bible is the mandated practice of leaving a few sheaves behind for the poor to WORK to gather. Not the same. What do you think?
Varnel Watson
…is unreal