Click to join the conversation with over 500,000 Pentecostal believers and scholars
Click to get our FREE MOBILE APP and stay connected
Troy Day | PentecostalTheology.com
Rick Joyner’s response to Lee Grady’s column “The Tragic Scandal of Greasy Grace” http://charismaticcentral.com/forum/data/eggavatar-cached/0/5_e2db9.jpg?1455212838 This weeks Throw Back Thursday Thread. The whole situation with Todd Bentley was very very sad Peter A Vandever may give you the scoop on it here http://www.pentecostaltheology.com/rick-joyner-is-a-prophetic-voice/ For one thing Grady is right: the Lakeland ended in as a real disaster and it’s a done deal. Bentley will not be able to pull it again…
Varnel Watson
Peter A Vandever right once again. http://www.pentecostaltheology.com/is-rick-joyner-a-prophetic-voice/
Varnel Watson
Philip Williams this was the saddest day mentioned Rick put Tod back into ministry – what spirit this I DO NOT know Peter Vandever do you remember years ago when we were looking for Tod’s manuals sent to our AG church on how to cast demons out and have revival and miracles – – – Terry Wiles who actually wrote Resolution 16 to shut down Todd & Co. We actually found the manuals – years later – and WILL post them in due time possible soon for discussion
Daniel J Hesse
Let me say that Rick Joyner seeks to restore from a heart of compassion and grace.
Philip Williams
Daniel J Hesse for his ministry stars, but not for their poor wives who they dump.
Daniel J Hesse
Philip Williams I dont always see what is in the hearts of people. I would like to offer grace and mercy.
Daniel J Hesse
Philip Williams I would do the same for you too.
Philip Williams
Daniel J Hesse you should hold your brothers accountable, especially the big shots who put their ministry needs above the little folks who are in their way.
Daniel J Hesse
Philip Williams what is a big shot?
Varnel Watson
I think Rick went on a limb on this one
Philip Williams
Daniel J Hesse who needs a revival of unrighteousness?
Varnel Watson
But Phil, Tod was endorsed by Brown, I think
Philip Williams
Daniel J Hesse big shots are those for whom little people like Todd Bentley’s wife aren’t important.
Daniel J Hesse
Philip Williams is it accurate to note most revivals have their fleshly challenges?
Philip Williams
Daniel J Hesse
Daniel J Hesse
Philip Williams in the present we are seeing this with recent news stories. I thought the previous administration was the source of all these issues?
Philip Williams
Daniel J Hesse
What kind of message does this send to those seeking to become ministers, to the people of God, and even to the world when this kind of thing is acceptable among ministers?
Philip Williams
Daniel J Hesse Yes, the previous staff rightly left Morningstar over this matter.
Daniel J Hesse
Philip Williams what kind of thing is acceptable? People and even, leaders battle personal, public, and private choices. We are only human, brother.
Daniel J Hesse
I wonder how the pastors in Lakeland viewed the revival there?
Philip Williams
Daniel J Hesse that’s why Jesus gives us his divine nature to overcome the flesh, the Devil, and the world.
Varnel Watson
Peter Vandever was there and has the inside scoop
Philip Williams
Troy Day hey, this was done before the world.
Philip Williams
“I wrote you in my letter not to associate with sexually immoral people. In no way did I mean the immoral people of this world, or the greedy and swindlers and idolaters, since you would then have to go out of the world. But now I am writing to you not to associate with anyone who calls himself a Christian who is sexually immoral, or greedy, or an idolater, or verbally abusive, or a drunkard, or a swindler. Do not even eat with such a person. For what do I have to do with judging those outside? Are you not to judge those inside? But God will judge those outside. Remove the evil person from among you.”
1 Corinthians 5:9-13
Daniel J Hesse
Philip Williams I wasn’t there. I can’t speak to it. But I do hold Rick in high esteem and respect…
Philip Williams
Daniel J Hesse for accepting adultery among his leaders?
Daniel J Hesse
Philip Williams in the 2nd Letter he appeals to the restoration and redemption of the man…
Daniel J Hesse
Philip Williams no, as I said, I was not there. I can’t speak to it.
Philip Williams
Daniel J Hesse Bentley has absolutely no place in the ministry. He needs to learn how to walk righteously before God and man.
Terry Wiles
Troy Day only this one? Why is it those who permit the title of prophet or apostle have no gift of discernment?
Varnel Watson
Philip Williams are you familiar with the manuals for Revival and deliverance Tod was sending our AG which caused the writing of Resolution 16?
Philip Williams
Troy Day AoG considers Todd Bentley a minister?
Varnel Watson
didnt they @ one point? – you were there
Varnel Watson
all gifts but casting demons were in the OT
Daniel J Hesse
Troy Day what about that witch at Endor calling up Samuel? Never heard anyone preach on it.
Joe Absher
Rick joyners comments on the passing of Paul Cain. I never heard of him but I guess it was bad?
https://youtu.be/FJPyKcVEb4M
Link Hudson
I did not know that he had passed away. I think I had an online conversation with him once. He didn’t say who he was, but it was an email address he’d used for someone else.
Joe Absher
Thank you brother Link Hudson.
If my remarks were unkind it was directed towards those that run about seeking an easy “mantle” and or “impartation” I recently revisited Andrew Murray book on “Humility” he says humility is an impartation if the nature and character of Christ. In all my years of the Pentecostal way I’ve never seen an altar call or prayer line for something so important for the spiritual life and health of the believer. If only it were so easy lol!!!
Joe Absher
How’d you like someone to pray you get their anointing only to find out they’re homosexual. You guys can keep your mantle lol. No thanks
Varnel Watson
it was a sad sad day as Lee Grady wrote back then
Philip Williams
These men were bold like a drunk is bold, but not the boldness that comes from a pure heart who trusts in Jesus.
Varnel Watson
are you saying the FL revivals were all fake?
Philip Williams
Troy Day No. Led by authentic demons.
Tim Dalton
Philip Williams tell us more. What did you think about the Toronto one as well?
Varnel Watson
Led by authentic demons? – which ones?
Philip Williams
Troy Day the peacock demon in bam, bam Todd Bentley.
Varnel Watson
I dont think there was actually one Peter Vandever
Philip Williams
Troy Day Yes, the spirits need to be tested. Todd Bentley had no Holy Spirit.
Brian Roden
I remember when I first read an article in the Charisma News e-mail in April 2008 about the “Lakeland Revival.” The article mentioned that Bentley believed the same angel that had accompanied William Branham was with him in his own ministry. When I read that, I got a knot in my stomach. At that time I didn’t even know who Branham was, but based on that guy-feel I looked up info about him. When I read that Branham said the Trinity was a “doctrine of demons,” I suspected things were not going to end well. I followed the news reports and internet chatter about Lakeland, and four months later, in August 2008, the news came out about Bentley going out to bars to drink after services, and that he had developed an “inappropriate emotional entanglement” with a ministry associate (who had been his kids’ nanny before he went on the road to FL). And the whole house of cards came crashing down.
After all this came to light, I realized that “knot in my stomach” was most likely the Holy Spirit giving me discernment and prodding me to investigate.
Varnel Watson
Peter Vandever was there and claims no demons were flying around I think Gary Micheal Epping was also part of one or more FL revivals
Gary Micheal Epping
Troy Day I don’t have any first hand knowledge about lakeland revival, so I will not comment.
Varnel Watson
I was thinking we spoke about Michael Brown before?
Philip Williams
I warned Michael about Bentley’s peacock spirit. He had a positive report from Virginia and wanted to wait. Eventually, he realized that this was unclean stuff.
Steve Losee
In his best selling THE FINAL QUEST, allegedly a prophetic dream, he gets counsel from his dead brother. Knowing what Scripture says, I lost interest in anything Joyner has to say. Bye.
Tim Dalton
That and many other of his errors. Many seem to buy into anything that they think has supernatural influences. Folks what does Joyner say about the bodily resurrection of Jesus. Regarding Joyner’s understanding of the bodily resurrection of Jesus Christ, Do some serious research on this.
An older but still valid article
http://www.apologeticsindex.org/7799-rick-joyner
Tim Dalton
https://exposingchristianerror.wordpress.com/category/rick-joyner/
Terry Wiles
Daniel J Hesse Cash cow.
Varnel Watson
Terry Wiles only this one what? I am lost
Daniel J Hesse
How are you all dealing with the recent Harvest Bible news?
Varnel Watson
you mean from the AG stats?
Daniel J Hesse
Troy Day ???? James McDonald?
Varnel Watson
ha ???
Daniel J Hesse
Troy Day check breaking christian news…
Varnel Watson
Philip Williams How did Michael responded to Bentley’s peacock spirit? What is a peacock spirit? Link Hudson dont believe in Jezebel spirit
Link Hudson
I said the Jezebel spirit is not in the Bible. I suppose the dead Canaanite woman had a spirit. I do not rule out that a certain demon might be labeled ‘Jezebel’ for some reason, but the Bible does not teach the existence of a ‘Jezebel spirit’ other than the teaching that human’s have spirits.
Varnel Watson
IS peacock spirit in the BIBLE or not?
Link Hudson
Troy Day I am not familiar with it. I’d imagine as animals they have souls.
Varnel Watson
I still dont know what a peacock spirit is
Varnel Watson
Philip Williams Link Hudson I guess I am asking this because I’ve seen it before and always ascribed to J. Lee Grady who around 2010 in
Rekindling the Power of God in an Age of Compromise said this
prancing around like peacocks on stage while they call people to their platforms for prayer. In 2008, Canadian revivalist Todd Bentley held a fourmonth series of nightly … etc. Peter Vandever
Daniel J Hesse
Troy Day the peacock is viewed as an animal sign reflecting a prophetic calling. In dreams in particular.
Varnel Watson
I know some of that BUT I do have a particular reason for asking that. In the occult or kabbalist tradition Samael or Samuel is an angel and is also referred to as the Peacock Angel (thus the peacock feather) or the Angel of Death.A peacock feather is run across the “third eye” in the center of his forehead and so one mumbo jumbo
It is sometimes symbolized by a flaming eye. Interesting enough Bentley has a large flaming eye tattooed on his left arm. A tattoo by the way that he got about a year ago, well after his “conversion”.
Now I want to show you something that was taken from Todd Bentleys Angelic Hosts article and written in his own words. Bentley then states that “In retrospect, I realize that the only thing to get us into the throne room was my conscious decision to think about what it looked like in the heavenlies at that moment in the service. I had also begun to acknowledge the angelic eye
Daniel J Hesse
Troy Day I am w/o words!
Varnel Watson
so seems to be most here in the past 24hrs
Varnel Watson
SO Daniel J Hesse Philip Williams Peter Vandever I would NOT make it that big of a deal if it wasnt for a 2016 prophecy no where else but in J Lee Grady’s media – a prophecy concerning TRUMP and a prophet that arises when he becomes a president and uses no other but the peacock wording that says THIS
In a new prophecy shared at The Elijah List, Stephen Powell, a revivalist minister who preaches the word under Steve Toliver of Abundance of Rain Ministries and Todd Bentley of Fresh Fire Ministries, says the election of Donald Trump and Mike Pence was the first step in what could lead to third Great Awakening in America.
The day after Trump’s election, he said he saw “two peacocks come together as one mighty bird,” which then took off into the air with “an incredible sound of power,” while a large eagle landed on the ground at the same time. He then heard the voice of the Lord, booming from the heavens, say, “The Eagle has landed, and now the prophet will soar.”
https://www.charismanews.com/politics/issues/61403-prophecy-trump-s-election-was-the-first-step-next-is-the-rise-of-the-prophet
Varnel Watson
no comment Link Hudson Peter Vandever
Terry Wiles
Troy Day no comment from the Amazon….
Varnel Watson
write us a Resolution 20 for the 2020 election Philip Williams your take on the Trump prophet peacock ?
Joe Absher
A 2020 prophecy that we see Jesus clearly, dirty feet, tear stained feet, pierced and scarred, brazen feet, feet of fire and gold, feet on the mount of olives and feet on the neck of his enemies. That what I want to see 2020
Varnel Watson
Philip Williams do you see any connection between Tod and the double peacock spirit mentioned in this prophecy?
Varnel Watson
Philip Williams this is an old old situation that we’ve discussed number of times Last about 6 months ago but just recently resurfaced with bentley and Peter Vandever sudden return Why have you missed it and connect it with new rants its a surprise but more importantly – didnt Mike Brown already talk about this?
Philip Williams
I warned MB from the very beginning about that demon infested peacock Todd Bentley. He had just gotten a good report from someone at Regent and wanted to wait and see. Well he has waited and we can see. In the meantime, how many victims? It seems that the Pentecostal ministry cares more about giving mercy to its own than it does to their victims.
Varnel Watson
Philip Williams you have mentioned peacock demon before but I think Link Hudson jumped in saying there is no such demon or something What do you attribute his fresh return back and Joyner backing him in every way possible ?
Link Hudson
Troy Day I would say I am unaware of a peacock demon being mentioned in the Bible. If someone has a revelation of such a thing let us examine it as we should other revelations.
I do not believe Christians have authority to create new demons.
Varnel Watson
Link Hudson were you the one opposing Philip Williams with this one before or am I thinking of another
Philip Williams
Rick Joyner regards ministerial accountability as witchcraft. Just what I rebuked him for the first time I ever met him.
Varnel Watson
his rant you posted is pretty pretty OLD bently has no ministerial accountability since divorce but M Brown is too in the same pot with them and the good ol FL boys
Link Hudson
Philip Williams I read a link in that post and came across his alleged accusations of another guy as ‘witchcraft’ for allegedly being manipulative.
If Joyner said that about the BIBLE teaching this it sure sounds like a stupid quote tome. If Joyner can show us where the Bible teaches that manipulation id witchcraft he could share it.
Varnel Watson
Link Hudson are you referring to the peacock ?
Link Hudson
No, the article referred to in one of the links has Joyner insinuating that one of these guys who exposed this in operating in ‘witchcraft’ because he allegedly publicized this in frustration and Joyner considered it manipulative.
I suppose I c
Varnel Watson
not sure which article what video and what Link but Philip Williams referred to the spirit of peacock
Link Hudson
Troy Day. Peacock’s have souls if they are alive. Do you think they have spirits?
Philip Williams
Link Hudson
Satan has the spirit of a serpent. Or perhaps serpents have the spirit of Satan.
Do you suppose that God has only one such animal spirit in the great zoo that he created?
Philip Williams
Link Hudson what about all those locust and scorpion spirits in Joel and Revelation?
Philip Williams
Link Hudson
Nebuchadnezzar was given the mind of a beast.
Link Hudson
Philip Williams some spirits are mentioned in the Bible. I am not sure all of the modern demonology even claims to be based on revelation from God.
Philip Williams
Link Hudson
It can be useful to understand the nature of certain demonic activity. The peacock nature of Todd Bentley’s ministry helps explain the bizarre popularity of a ministry that any Holy Ghost person should have immediately recognized as demonic.
It was the late Richard Kendall, a seer of note, who identified the peacock the moment I asked him the problem with Bentley. He immediately burst into laughter explaining that peacocks are used for herding turkeys, the dumbest of fowl. Turkeys are known to drown due to holding their heads up in the rain.
I immediately shared that with Michael Brown who mentioned that a colleague at Regent University had just written a greatly favorable article about Bentley’s Florida revival. MB was shocked and wanted to wait before judging. So he waited until the fiasco involving Todd Bentley leaving his wife for a groupie.
Of course MB had endured accusations that the Pensacola revival was demonic, certainly not the case. Both revivals were widely covered and both resulted in changed lives even if the direction of the changes were 180 degrees different.
Don’t the Scriptures teach us to test the spirits for not every Spirit is from God?
Sad commentary on the state of the Charismatic/Pentecostal world of today.
Philip Williams
The Kansas City Prophets were known for revival chasing. Bob Jones had prophesied that a tattooed young man would lead a revival. I think he even prayed over Bentley. Maybe he even imparted Bentley’s “gift.”
I encountered these revival chasers wanting to “dig out the old well” at the mission at the old Garr Auditorium where I was serving as director. I had a contractor who had supported PTL bring a man to the mission. He paid upfront several months of residency. The man he brought wanted to speak at the mission prayer meetings. Discerning him to be unclean, I immediately stopped him from speaking in the meetings, but I didn’t expel him from the mission. I had no idea that he was secretly telling those who were unhappy with the “tyrant,” as I was being described in those circles. He ended up taking some of them to the Philippines to ‘get some of the Marcos gold’ so as to buy the old Garr Auditorium and expel the tyrant. I was rebuked by these revival chasers who explained to me that ‘the wealth of the wicked’ was intended [apparently for them for the purpose of expelling the ‘tyrant.”]
As it turned out, it some of their own wealth was intended for the wicked, this man who fleeced some of them of their life’s savings.
Robert Erwine
as much as i personally despise these people spreading unconfirmed stories of sodomy and adultery is terrible , maybe just as bad .
Varnel Watson
are you even in the right jungle on this one?
Philip Williams
Robert Erwine these things Todd Bentley has admitted!
Link Hudson
In the article he said there were some true and some false.
Joe Absher
https://www.charismanews.com/opinion/77758-todd-bentley-scandal-reveals-bigger-problem-2-demonic-spirits-roam-the-church-freely
Varnel Watson
YAP – Philip Williams see the videos UNDER article
Joe Absher
I did personally respond to Rick Joyner’s response video a couple days ago.
Varnel Watson
and he paid you ALL the attention
Steve Losee
Life’s too short don’t have time for “ministers” who get counsel from dead siblings.
Varnel Watson
how do they do that?
Steve Losee
Its in Joyner’s best-selling “The Final Quest”, allegedly a vision/dream from “God”.
Link Hudson
Dead siblings? Do you mean the conversation with a Luther like Reformer
I had a dream about you my brother once, two in a row actually, which I believe were revelatory. He did not recall having the conversation I had with the dream version of him. Was that dream communication with him! I would say not. Is dreaming about someone asleep in Christ necessarily communicatingbwiyh them?
Steve Losee
Did you write a book claiming it was from God?
Varnel Watson
BIG MESS !
Joe Absher
Proverbs 26:17 KJV — He that passeth by, and meddleth with strife belonging not to him, is like one that taketh a dog by the ears.
Varnel Watson
I just posted on iHop Vineyard and the Kansas 4
Varnel Watson
Joe Absher Philip Williams WHY is joyner mentioning M Brown again and again – do they have a great NAR connection?
Varnel Watson
Cameron C Smith sorry to tell ya that this is old old news for this group And not merely the heretic theology of Bentley but the beef Lee Grady’s got to him since the FL revivals Hence the old article about Joyner and Bentley here just renewed
This group has long discussed Bentley’s heretical praxis especially the demonic Emma angelic appearance he claimed though Peter Vandever likes him as a friend http://www.pentecostaltheology.com/is-todd-bentleys-teaching-on-the-secret-place-a-pentecostal/
AG declared this back 20 yrs ago with RESOLUTION 16 also much discussed here http://www.pentecostaltheology.com/apostles-and-prophets-in-america-today/
Bentley Brown and the FL revivalists printed manuals of how to have revival in a local church, have healings and signs and so on AND sold millions of them to local churches We found those manuals though Gary Micheal Epping who was there never seen them http://www.pentecostaltheology.com/a-biblical-critique-of-brownsville-assembly-of-god-deliverance-manual/
and so on and so on charisma THE mag is 4-5 yrs late with this news AND simply repeating what we’ve said long ago about NAR now is the time to declare Dr. Brown or the investigator too Nelson Banuchi Joe Absher
https://www.facebook.com/DrMichaelBrown/posts/10156648507265685
Peter Vandever
Troy Day former friend. I have been very public about dealing with him
Joe Absher
Sadly todd bentley is but a symptom of a deeper wound and greater sickness
Varnel Watson
Joe Absher TRUE there are DEEPER roots into the FL revivals that set the action of our AG resolution 16 The FL revivals were destructive for many and even Peter Vandever left the prophetic apostolic network BUT there is more here HOW come FL own M Brown who promoted the old revival manuals we’ve discussed with Gary Micheal Epping who promoted Bentley now flip the flop on him Nelson Banuchi pls note a spiritual flip flop and not just political
Peter Vandever I remember you considering him a close friend back in the day Sorry I have not been able to follow your recent falling with him I know you defended him even from the homosex accusations that seemed to be solid but you said were light on evidence and should be taken lightly
PLS also note that beside Brown you have Mattera and another one ALL associated with NAR apologetic etc The other names in the short list of the said committee aka spiritual tribunal are unknown https://www.amazon.com/LEFT-PROPHETIC-MOVEMENT-NEW-2012/dp/0979907306
Daniel J Hesse
Let’s move on toward love and good words and works!!!
Joe Absher
Proverbs 15:11 KJV — Hell and destruction are before the LORD: how much more then the hearts of the children of men?
Varnel Watson
From childhood I have wondered if false prophets know they are false prophets or do they really believe they have heard from God. I think about that a lot lately.
William DeArteaga
They have no clue, and like Dave Wilkerson, passionately beieve that they speak the truth.
Varnel Watson
William DeArteaga WELL how do you feel about these few Bentley Joyner Peter Vandever
Peter Vandever
I have lost respect for Rick a long time ago.
Varnel Watson
Peter Vandever may be soon Brown too
Peter Vandever
Dr, Brown did what he needed to do.
Varnel Watson
Peter Vandever he flipped on Bentley who trusted him; flipped on Trump b/c close family and to sell more books No one likes a flipper in the war Joe Absher
Joe Absher
I flipped on you . more than once . but I ain’t gonna throw you to the wolves you rascal .
Varnel Watson
Joe Absher Peter Vandever I think what’s more interesting is that in that passage, the defense the people God never knew give when God says he doesn’t know them shows their hearts. Instead of giving faith in Christ as their defense and justification, they rely on a gospel of miracles, signs and wonders for their justification. Which is part of what Bethel teaches. We can see their defense shows that they are relying on their own righteousness and what they did, rather than what Christ did for them. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cposA5UBzps
Peter Vandever
Brown is right on Matthew 7.
Joe Absher
I not sure I understand Mr Day . are you for the argument of “revealing truth” on Matthew 7 or against .
Varnel Watson
Peter Vandever you know this video is from yesterday and he is answering about Todd Bentley? Joe Absher
Joe Absher
I just seen it .
Joe Absher
I not sure I understand Mr Day . are you for the argument of “revealing truth” on Matthew 7 or against .
Kinda weird way of doing a video.
Varnel Watson
Joe Absher date says 1 4 2020 after the letter
Joe Absher
I not sure I understand Mr Day . are you for the argument of “revealing truth” on Matthew 7 or against .
Varnel Watson
I,m for one doesn’t like to see Catastrophes created by Weather events, like Hurricanes, Famines, Earthquakes and so on… Neither of Wars and rumors of wars. But… I also don’t like to see Homosexuals marching down our streets, Abortions of innocent babies, the Spirit of Lawlessness and Perversion, in our Nation, So , what is for God to do to get our Attention, and bring us to our knees in Repentance, to bring us back to him, Say what Preacher ??? you mean God will allow these things to happen to us, all the destructions that all they Bring, and the Answer is Yes, all through the Bible, God sent or allow destructive things to happen, to bring Correction to his people. And Judgement on those that would not obey him… Wake up AMERICA, Its a Fearful thing to fall in the hands of an Angry God…We need REVIVAL, but my Question is..What will it take to bring us to our knees again???