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89 Proofs of a Divine Trinity #BOOM Finis Dake- Dake’s Annotated Reference Bible.
What we mean by Divine Trinity is that there are three separate and distinct persons in the Godhead, each one having His own personal spirit body, personal soul, and personal spirit in the same sense each human being, angel, or any other being has his own body, soul, and spirit. We mean by body, whether a spirit body or a flesh body, the house for the indwelling of the personal soul and spirit. The soul is that which feels and the spirit is that which knows.
The doctrine of the Trinity can be clearly seen, being understood by the visible things that are made, even to His eternal power and Godhead (Rom. 1:20). What on earth was created in the image and likeness of God? Man (Gen. 1:26-28). Do God’s image and likeness consist only of moral and spiritual powers? If so, it can be concluded that man is only a moral and spiritual being. Is God bodiless? If so, we can conclude that man is also bodiless.
Is God only one being made up of several persons or beings in the one being? If so, we can conclude that man is one person or being made up of many. Does God need a flesh body in order to have any kind of body? No! There are such things as spirit and heavenly bodies. See 1Cor. 15:35-38. From this passage we learn that all things in creation — grain, fish, birds, beasts, man, angels, and even the planets — have bodies, sizes, shapes, and forms.
The Bible declares that God has a body, shape, image, likeness, physical parts, a personal soul and spirit, and all other things that constitute a being or a person with a body, soul, and spirit (see note, Jn. 4:24; note, Jn. 5:37; The Doctrine of Man.
Angels, cherubim, seraphim, and all other spirit beings have spirit bodies and personal souls and spirits. They have been seen with the natural eyes of men over 100 times in Scripture (see Appearances of Angels to Men). If all other spirit beings have spirit bodies, could not the members of the Trinity also have spirit bodies? The 284 passages on spirits in Scripture prove that spirit bodies are just as real and capable of operation in the material worlds as are flesh bodies. There is no such thing as a world of creations made up of invisible substance. The so-called spirit world must be understood simply as spirit beings inhabiting material worlds created by God. Heaven itself is a material place(Gen. 1:1; Heb. 11:10-16), having cities, mansions, furniture, inhabitants, living conditions, etc.
God has been seen physically by human eyes many times (Gen. 18:1-33; 19:24; 32:24-30; Ex. 24:11; 33:11-23; Josh. 5:13-15; Judg. 6:11-23; 13:3-25; 1Chr. 21:16-17; Job 42:5; Isa. 6; Ezek. 1:26-28; 10:1,20; 40:3; Dan. 7:9-14; 10:5-10; Acts 7:56-59; Rev. 4:2-5; 5:1,5-7,11-14; 6:16; 7:9-17; 19:4; 21:3-5; 22:4).
In over 20,000 references about God in Scripture we get to know all we need to know about the subject. If we will take the Bible literally as to what it says about Him, as we do with other things the subject will be very clear; but if we make God a mystery, ignoring the plain statements of Scripture about Him, and refusing to believe the many descriptions of God given by those who have seen one, two, and three separate persons called “God,” then we ill remain in ignorance.
It is true there are a few figurative statements about God in Scripture, as there are about man and other things, but shall we do away with the reality of man and these other things because of a few figures of speech? Let us make man mere salt and lights (Mt. 5:13-14), if we are going to do away with God because of a few figures of speech.
We submit the following facts in Scripture to prove a Divine Trinity of separate persons in the Godhead:
1. The word “one” means one in unity as well as one in number. It means unity in 1Jn. 5:7, as it does in Jn. 17:11,21-23, and yet these three Persons, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit, are spoken of as one each in number and individuality in Scripture. There is one God the Father, one Lord Jesus Christ, and one Holy Spirit (1Cor. 8:6; Eph. 4:3-6). Thus, there are three separate Persons in divine individuality and divine pluralty. The Father is called God (1Cor. 8:6), the Son is called God (Isa. 9:6,7; Heb. 1:8; Jn. 1:1-2; 20:28), and the Holy Spirit is called God (Acts 5:3-4). As individual persons each can be called God and collectively they can be spoken of as one God because of their perfect unity. The word “God” is used either as a singular or a plural word, like sheep. Everything that could be spoken of God collectively applies equally to each member of the Godhead as an individual, but there are some things that are said of each person of the Deity as to position, office, and work that could not be spoken as of the other members of the Godhead. The Father is the head of Christ (1Cor. 11:3); the Son is the only begotten of the Father (2Jn. 1:3), and the Holy Spirit proceeds from both the Father and the Son (Jn. 14:16,26; 15:26; 16:7-15; Acts 2:34).
2. Names of God prove plurality of persons.(Gen. 3:5; Ex. 22:28; 1Sam. 4:8; Dan. 2:11; 4:6-9; 5:11,14; etc.).
3. Plural pronouns are used of God, proving plurality of persons (Gen. 1:26; 3:22; 11:7; Isa. 6:8; Jn. 14:23; 17:11,22-23).
4. First, second, and third personal pronouns are used hundreds of times in Scripture, referring to one, two, and three persons of the Godhead in the same sense they are used of men. Sometimes the different members of the Deity use them to and of one another in the same sense man uses them. In Jn. 17 alone Jesus uses them 162 Times in speaking to and of His Father (cp. Jn. 14:16-17,26; 15:26; 16:7-15). Sometimes singular pronouns are used of the whole Godhead of three members as a unity (Ex. 20:3; Isa. 44:6,8; 45:5,21; 46:9; Hos. 13:4), just like the whole church as a unit is spoken of as a man and “he” (Eph. 2:14-15; 4:13; 5:25-27; 2Th. 2:7-8).
5. “Man is become as one of us” proves plurality of persons (Gen. 3:22).
6. Two and three Persons called God have been seen by the same men at the same time and places as being separate persons (Dan. 7:9-14; Mt. 3:16-17; Jn. 1:31-34; Acts 7:54-60; Rev. 6:16; 7:9-17; 21:22; 22:3).
7. Two Lords are mentioned in Gen. 19:24; one on earth and one in heaven.
8. Two Persons are referred to in the Old Testament See Ps. 8:5-6 with Heb. 2:5-18; Ps. 16:8-10 with Acts 2:25-36; Ps. 22:1-22 with Mt. 27:35,39-43,45-46; Heb. 9:14; 10:5-12; Ps. 40:6-10 with Heb. 10:5-7; and Ps. 45:6-7 with Heb. 1:8-9.
9. Two Lords are mentioned sitting side by side (Ps. 110:1,5; Mt. 22:44; 26:64; Acts 2:33-34; 7:54-56; Rom. 8:34; Eph. 1:20; Col. 3:1; Heb. 1:3,13; 8:1; 10:12; 12:2; 1Pet. 3:22; Rev. 22:3).
10. Two Persons are mentioned and required in order to understand the plain language of Ps. 2; 9:19; 132:17; Prov. 30:4; Isa. 4:2; 10:16-17; 28:16; 49:1-10; 50:4-11; 52:13 – Isa. 53:12; 62:11; Mic. 5:1-5; Jer. 23:4-8; 33:14-26; Zech. 3:8-10; 6:12-13. In these passages one is anointed, becomes the son of, is sent by, is taught by, and becomes the servant of the other; and both are called Lord.
11. Three self-acting Persons — the Lord God, the Messiah, and the Holy Spirit — are referred to as blessing, anointing, sending, and doing things for one another in Isa. 11:2; 42:1-7; 48:16; 59:21; 61:1-2; 63:1-14; Zech. 12:10 — Zech. 13:2.
12. In Zech. 1:7-21 the Lord of Hosts and the angel of the Lord (also called Lord, Zech. 1:19-20; 2:1-13) are talking together. One Lord says of the other Lord that He has sent Him to Israel (Zech. 2:8-13). One Lord refers to Himself as “Me” and to the Lord of Hosts as “His” and “He” (Zech. 2:8-11). The conference continues throughout Zechariah until Zech. 13:6-7 where both Lords are called fellows or associate.
13. Jesus Christ is called the son of Abraham, David, Mary, and of God (Mt. 1:1; Mk. 1:1; 6:3). He is just as much a separate person from God as He is of these other persons.
14. Two Persons are referred to many times in the New Testament (Mt. 11:27; Lk. 23:46; Jn. 1:1-2,18; 5:19-20; 14:1-9; 16:15; 17:3,10; Acts 2:38-39; 3:13-26; Php. 2:5-11; Eph. 3:5; Col. 1:5; 2Th. 2:16-17; Tit. 2:13; Heb. 1:1-3; Rev. 20:6; 22:3).
15. Two and three Persons are mentioned in the introductions to New Testament books (Rom. 1:1-4,7; 1Cor. 1:3; Jas. 1:1; 1Pet. 1:1-3; 2Jn. 1:3; Rev. 1:1-6; etc.).
16. God is the head of Christ and thus greater than He in position (1Cor. 3:23; 11:3; 1Chr. 29:11; Jn. 14:28).
17. Christ is the mediator between God and man, not between Himself and man (1Tim. 2:5).
18. Two and three Persons are referred to in every New Testament book (Mt. 3:16-17; 12:31-32; 17:5; 22:43-45; 28:19; Mk. 1:1-2,10; 13:32; Lk. 1:32-35; 2:40,52; 3:22; 4:1; 4:18; 9:35; 23:46; 24:39 with Jn. 4:24; Jn. 1:1-3,14,18; 5:17-25,31-38; 6:37,44-46,57; 7:16-18,28,37-39; 8:13-19,26-38,42,54; 10:15-18,24,29,36; 12:26-31,44,49-50; 14:1-26,28-30; 15:1-26; 16:1-33; 17:1-26; 18:11; 20:17,21; 18:11; 20:17,21; Acts 1:7-8; 2:24-36; 3:13-26; 4:10,26-31; 5:29-33; 7:37,55-56; 8:12-17; 9:17; 10:38-48; 17:31; Rom. 1:3,7,9; 5:1-11; 8:1-13,26-39; 1Cor. 1:3-9; 2:10; 3:23; 8:6; 11:3; 12:3; 15:57; 2Cor. 1:2-3; 5:17-21; 13:14; Gal. 1:1-3; Eph. 1:2-3; 3:14; 4:3-6; 6:23; Php. 1:2; 2:5-11; Col. 1:2-3,13-19; 3:1; 1Th. 1:1-10; 3:13; 2Th. 1:1-2; 2:16; 1Tim. 1:2; 2:5; 5:21; 6:14-16; 2Tim. 1:2; 4:1; Tit. 1:4; 2:13; Phm. 1:3; see note, Rev. 5:13 for 30 last New Testament references). In no conceivable way can we force a meaning of three persons in one person; three beings in one being; or three manifestations of only one person in any of these or any other scripture.
19. There are three distinct and separate witnesses that bear witness of Christ (1Jn. 5:5-11,13,20). Both God and man require this many personal and separate witnesses to confirm any point (Mt. 18:16; 2Cor. 13:1). The water and blood of 1Jn. 5:8 could not be accepted as accredited personal witnesses to confirm any point (Mt. 18:16; 2Cor. 13:1). The water and blood of 1Jn. 5:8 could not be accepted as accredited personal witness in themselves. The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are the only persnal witnesses of this passage. If we consider these to be only one person, then there are not the required number of witnesses to establish the truth of the Sonship of Jesus Christ. We are forced by facts to admit all of 1Jn. 5:7-8 as inspired Scripture and therefore, the fact that the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost are three separate and personal witnesses instead of being only one person or witness. Indeed, many scriptures confirm these three witnesses:
(1) The Father (Jer. 29:23; Mal. 3:5; Jn. 5:31-37, notes; Rom. 1:9; Heb. 1:1-2; 2:3-4)
(2) The Son (Isa. 55:4; Jn. 18:37; 1Tim. 6:13; Rev. 1:5)
(3) The Holy Spirit (Rom. 8:16; Jn. 15:26; Heb. 10:15; 1Jn. 3:6) If all three are witnesses, then they must be separate Persons. The water and the blood simply confirm the intelligent testimonies of the three Persons of the Godhead and give additional weight to the Sonship of Jesus.
20. The words through and by, used of Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit, but not once of the Father, prove that God to be a separate Person and the Head and Director of all things done by and through them (1Cor. 3:23; 11:3; Jn. 10:29; 14:28; 14:16-17,26; 15:26; 16:7-15; Acts 2:33-34):
(1) Through Jesus Christ (Acts 4:2; Rom. 1:8; 5:1,9,11; 6:23; 7:25; 15:17; 16:27; 1Cor. 15:57; 2Cor. 3:4; Gal. 3:14; 4:7; 5:10; Eph. 2:7,18; Php. 4:7,13; Tit. 3:6; Heb. 13:21; 1Pet. 1:22; 4:11; 1Jn. 4:9)
(2) By Jesus Christ (Jn. 1:3,10,17; 10:9; Acts 4:10; 10:36; Rom. 2:16; 3:22; 5:17,21; Gal. 1:1; Eph. 1:5; 3:9; Col. 1:15-20; 3:17; Heb. 1:1-3; 1Pet. 2:5; 5:10)
(3) Through the Holy Spirit (Acts 1:2; 21:4; Rom. 8:13; 15:13,19; Gal. 5:5; Eph. 2:22; Heb. 9:14)
(4) By the Holy Spirit (Ezek. 11:24; Mic. 3:8; Zech. 4:6; Mt. 12:28; Lk. 2:27; 4:1; Acts 11:28; Rom. 5:5; 15:19; 1Cor. 2:10; 6:11; 12:3,13)
Proofs that Jesus Is Not the Father:
21. The Father was in heaven all the time that Jesus was on earth (Mt. 5:16,48).
22. Christ now sits at the right hand of the Father (see note 9, above).
23. Jesus said He would confess men “before My Father,” proving He is not the Father (Mt. 10:32; Rev. 3:5).
24. Jesus always prayed to the Father as a separate Person (Mt. 11:25; Jn. 17).
25. The Father existed outside the body of Jesus, so He could not be Jesus (Mt. 2:12; 3:17; 17:5; Jn. 12:27-30).
26. Both Jesus and Satan refer to a God separate from Jesus (Mt. 4:6-10).
27. God was the Father of Jesus, not Jesus Himself (Eph. 1:3,17; 3:14).
28. In parables Jesus illustrates His relationship to the Father as that of separate persons (Mt. 21:33-46; Jn. 15:1-8).
29. People are taught to go directly to the Father and not to pray to Jesus (Jn. 14:12-15; 15:16; 16:23-26).
30. The Father knew things that Jesus did not know (Mk. 13:32; Acts 1:7).
31. Others saw Jesus as a separate Person from the Father (Dan. 7:9-14; Acts 7:56).
32. Jesus committed His own spirit to the Father, not to Himself (Lk. 23:46).
33. Jesus claimed that He came from God and was going back to God (Jn. 8:42; 16:5; 10:36; 17:8).
34. God is a Spirit, not flesh and blood like Jesus was (Jn. 4:24; 19:34; Mt. 16:17; Lk. 24:39).
35. People on earth with Jesus heard God speak as a separate person from heaven (Mt. 3:17; 17:5; 2Pet. 1:16-18).
36. Jesus claimed to be the Son of God, not the Father Himself (Jn. 5:17-35).
37. Jesus called the Father “My God,” even after the resurrection (Jn. 20:17; Rev. 3:12).
38. Jesus called God “My Father” 57 times (Jn. 15:1; Rev. 2:27). How could He be His own God and Father and beget Himself?
39. When Jesus was born on earth angels and people still recognized God in heaven (Lk. 2:7-16). Were they mistaken about God? Was the child all of God on earth and in heaven also?
40. Mary and Joseph acted with utmost ignorance if the baby Jesus was all of God, for they presented Him to the Lord Who was someone other than Jesus (Lk. 2:22).
41. Simeon had a revelation and guidance from the Holy Spirit that Jesus was not the only member of the Godhead (Lk. 2:26-33).
42. John the Baptist knew the Father, but he did not know the Son (Jn. 1:31-34).
43. The Son died, not the Father (1Cor. 15:3; 1Pet. 2:24).
44. Jesus was the only begotten Son of the Father, so could not be the Father or the begetter of Himself (Jn. 1:14).
45. Jesus claimed that He could not and did not do anything of Himself, but that the Father worked through Him (Jn. 5:19,30; 6:38; 8:28; 12:49-50).
46. He did not come to do His own will, but that of the Father who sent Him (Jn. 5:30; 6:38).
47. His doctrine was not His, but the Father’s (Jn. 7:16-17; 8:26).
48. He did not speak of Himself, but of the Father who had sent Him (Jn. 7:16-18; 8:26-40).
49. He did not please Himself, but the Father (Jn. 8:29).
50. He was a Son, not a Father over the house of God (Jn. 8:35-36; Heb. 3:6).
51. He had the same relation to His Father that men have with Satan (Jn. 8:16,35-44; 9:4).
52. He honored the Father as all people should (Jn. 8:49).
53. He did not seek His own glory, but that of the Father (Jn. 8:50-54; 17:4).
54. He knew the Father, but was not the Father (Jn. 8:55; 10:15).
55. He was loved by the Father as a separate person (Jn. 10:17-18).
56. He kept the Father’s commandments and they were not His own (Jn. 12:49-50; 15:10).
57. His disciples were given to Him by the Father (Jn. 10:29; 17:1-25).
58. He was equal with the Father in some things, but not in others (Mk. 13:32; Jn. 5:17-39; 8:13-19,29-42; 19:18-29; Acts 1:7; 1Cor. 11:3; Rev. 1:1).
59. He and the Father were in unity and in each other in the same sense believers are to be in unity and in God (Jn. 10:38; 14:10-11,23; 17:11,21-23).
60. He was the only way to the Father (Jn. 6:37; 14:6).
61. He said, I am not alone or the only witness of My sonship. The Father is another witness (Jn. 5:36-38; 8:13-19,54; 12:49-50; 14:10-11).
62. Over 80 times Jesus affirmed that He was not the Father and not the only person in the Godhead. Christ was the speaker, but not the one spoken of or to (Mt. 7:21; 11:27; 18:10,35; Lk. 2:49; Jn. 5:17-43; 8:19-49; 10:17-37; 14:7-28; 15:1-26; Rev. 1:1; etc.). Is it any wonder that the Godhead, the Trinity, and the unity of God are so mysterious when we force separate persons to become only one person, all because we do not want to recognize the true meaning of the word one as referring to unity rather than individuality in some scriptures? People would be just as great a mystery if we forced the meaning of all men to refer to one person.
63. He was not as great as His Father (Jn. 10:29; 14:28; cp. 1Cor. 11:3).
64. The Father (Mt. 3:17), Jesus (Jn. 10:36), angels (Lk. 1:32-35), demons (Mk. 3:11; 5:7), and apostles (Mt. 16:16; Jn. 1:14; Rom. 8:32; 2Jn. 1:3), all declare the sonship of Jesus, but not once do they declare a Christ-fatherhood.
65. The Father and the Son spoke to each other in audible voices at the same time and place, being heard by many witnesses (Mt. 3:16-17; 7:5; Jn. 12:27-30; 2Pet. 1:17). In no single instance could such speaking be explained as the voice of one individual or be used to prove one Person in the Deity.
66. The word “both” is used of the Father and the Son, proving two Persons (Jn. 15:24; 2Jn. 1:9).
67. The word “also” is used of the Father and the Son, proving two Persons (Jn. 5:19,27; 8:19; 13:32; 14:1).
68. The statement, “They have not known the Father nor Me,” proves two Persons (Jn. 16:3,5).
69. Christ received all power in heaven and in earth (Mt. 28:18). The Father had to be greater than Jesus to give Him that power (Jn. 14:28).
70. Jesus was resurrected and exalted by the Father, so He could not be the Father (Eph. 1:20-23; Php. 2:9-11; Heb. 12:2; 1Pet. 3:22)
71. God made Jesus both Lord and Christ (Acts 2:33-36).
72. Six times in Jn. 14:1-9 Jesus made it clear that He was not the Father.
Holy Spirit Is Not Jesus Or the Father:
73. The Holy Spirit is another Person, distinct from both the Father and the Son (Jn. 5:32; 14:16-17,26; 15:26; 16:7-15).
74. It was necessary that Jesus go away so that the Holy Spirit could come (Jn. 16:5-15).
75. He has been seen with the natural eyes as a separate Person from the Father and the Son (Mt. 3:16-17; Jn. 1:31-34; Rev. 4:5; 5:6).
76. He is symbolized as a separate Person with Christ, both of them before God who sits on a throne (Rev. 1:4-5; 3:1; 4:5; 5:6).
77. He could not be sent from God until Christ was glorified, but would then be sent from both the Father and the Son (Jn. 7:37-39; Acts 2:33-34).
78. He was sent from the Father to endow Jesus with power. This required three Persons: the One who sent Him, the One being sent, and the One who received Him (Acts 10:38; Isa. 11:2; 42:1-7; 61:1-2).
79. A clear distinction is made of the names of all three Persons (Mt. 28:19; 2Cor. 13:14; 1Jn. 5:7).
80. A clear distinction is made between the Son who prays, the Father to whom He prays, and the Holy Spirit for whom He prays (Jn. 14:16).
81. A clear distinction is made between the Son on the right hand of the Father, the Father on the left hand of the Son, and the Holy Spirit who is sent from the Father and the Son (Acts 2:33-36; 7:56; Jn. 14:16-17,26; 15:26; 16:7-15).
82. The Son was already given (Jn. 3:16), when the Spirit was not yet given (Jn. 7:39).
83. The Son can be blasphemed with forgiveness possible; but if the Spirit is blasphemed, no forgiveness is possible. This proves two distinct Persons (Mt. 12:31-32; Mk. 3:29-30; Lk. 12:10).
84. The Samaritans received Jesus, but had not yet received the Holy Spirit (Acts 8:5-25).
85. Jesus could do no miracle by Himself (Jn. 5:19), but by the Holy Spirit He did many miracles (Jn. 2:11; Acts 10:38)
86. The Holy Spirit came not to speak of or glorify Himself, but to speak of and glorify Jesus (Jn. 16:7-15).
87. The descent of the Holy Spirit proved the arrival of Jesus in heaven to sit at the right hand of God, thus proving three Persons (Acts 2:33-34; Jn. 7:39).
88. Jesus claimed even after the resurrection that He was not a spirit being, so He could not be the Father or the Holy Spirit who are spirit beings (Lk. 24:39; Jn. 4:24; 14:16-17,26; 15:26; 16:7-15).
89. In the last book of the Bible the Trinity is seen as working together in all things (Rev. 1:4-6; 3:1; 4:5; 5:6; 21:10; 22:17).
What we mean by Divine Trinity is that there are three separate and distinct persons in the Godhead, each one having His own personal spirit body, personal soul, and personal spirit in the same sense each human being, angel, or any other being has his own body, soul, and spirit. We mean by body, whether a spirit body or a flesh body, the house for the indwelling of the personal soul and spirit. The soul is that which feels and the spirit is that which knows.
The doctrine of the Trinity can be clearly seen, being understood by the visible things that are made, even to His eternal power and Godhead (Rom. 1:20). What on earth was created in the image and likeness of God? Man (Gen. 1:26-28). Do God’s image and likeness consist only of moral and spiritual powers? If so, it can be concluded that man is only a moral and spiritual being. Is God bodiless? If so, we can conclude that man is also bodiless.
Is God only one being made up of several persons or beings in the one being? If so, we can conclude that man is one person or being made up of many. Does God need a flesh body in order to have any kind of body? No! There are such things as spirit and heavenly bodies. See 1Cor. 15:35-38. From this passage we learn that all things in creation — grain, fish, birds, beasts, man, angels, and even the planets — have bodies, sizes, shapes, and forms.
The Bible declares that God has a body, shape, image, likeness, physical parts, a personal soul and spirit, and all other things that constitute a being or a person with a body, soul, and spirit (see note, Jn. 4:24; note, Jn. 5:37; The Doctrine of Man.
Angels, cherubim, seraphim, and all other spirit beings have spirit bodies and personal souls and spirits. They have been seen with the natural eyes of men over 100 times in Scripture (see Appearances of Angels to Men). If all other spirit beings have spirit bodies, could not the members of the Trinity also have spirit bodies? The 284 passages on spirits in Scripture prove that spirit bodies are just as real and capable of operation in the material worlds as are flesh bodies. There is no such thing as a world of creations made up of invisible substance. The so-called spirit world must be understood simply as spirit beings inhabiting material worlds created by God. Heaven itself is a material place(Gen. 1:1; Heb. 11:10-16), having cities, mansions, furniture, inhabitants, living conditions, etc.
God has been seen physically by human eyes many times (Gen. 18:1-33; 19:24; 32:24-30; Ex. 24:11; 33:11-23; Josh. 5:13-15; Judg. 6:11-23; 13:3-25; 1Chr. 21:16-17; Job 42:5; Isa. 6; Ezek. 1:26-28; 10:1,20; 40:3; Dan. 7:9-14; 10:5-10; Acts 7:56-59; Rev. 4:2-5; 5:1,5-7,11-14; 6:16; 7:9-17; 19:4; 21:3-5; 22:4).
In over 20,000 references about God in Scripture we get to know all we need to know about the subject. If we will take the Bible literally as to what it says about Him, as we do with other things the subject will be very clear; but if we make God a mystery, ignoring the plain statements of Scripture about Him, and refusing to believe the many descriptions of God given by those who have seen one, two, and three separate persons called “God,” then we ill remain in ignorance.
It is true there are a few figurative statements about God in Scripture, as there are about man and other things, but shall we do away with the reality of man and these other things because of a few figures of speech? Let us make man mere salt and lights (Mt. 5:13-14), if we are going to do away with God because of a few figures of speech.
We submit the following facts in Scripture to prove a Divine Trinity of separate persons in the Godhead:
1. The word “one” means one in unity as well as one in number. It means unity in 1Jn. 5:7, as it does in Jn. 17:11,21-23, and yet these three Persons, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit, are spoken of as one each in number and individuality in Scripture. There is one God the Father, one Lord Jesus Christ, and one Holy Spirit (1Cor. 8:6; Eph. 4:3-6). Thus, there are three separate Persons in divine individuality and divine pluralty. The Father is called God (1Cor. 8:6), the Son is called God (Isa. 9:6,7; Heb. 1:8; Jn. 1:1-2; 20:28), and the Holy Spirit is called God (Acts 5:3-4). As individual persons each can be called God and collectively they can be spoken of as one God because of their perfect unity. The word “God” is used either as a singular or a plural word, like sheep. Everything that could be spoken of God collectively applies equally to each member of the Godhead as an individual, but there are some things that are said of each person of the Deity as to position, office, and work that could not be spoken as of the other members of the Godhead. The Father is the head of Christ (1Cor. 11:3); the Son is the only begotten of the Father (2Jn. 1:3), and the Holy Spirit proceeds from both the Father and the Son (Jn. 14:16,26; 15:26; 16:7-15; Acts 2:34).
2. Names of God prove plurality of persons.(Gen. 3:5; Ex. 22:28; 1Sam. 4:8; Dan. 2:11; 4:6-9; 5:11,14; etc.).
3. Plural pronouns are used of God, proving plurality of persons (Gen. 1:26; 3:22; 11:7; Isa. 6:8; Jn. 14:23; 17:11,22-23).
4. First, second, and third personal pronouns are used hundreds of times in Scripture, referring to one, two, and three persons of the Godhead in the same sense they are used of men. Sometimes the different members of the Deity use them to and of one another in the same sense man uses them. In Jn. 17 alone Jesus uses them 162 Times in speaking to and of His Father (cp. Jn. 14:16-17,26; 15:26; 16:7-15). Sometimes singular pronouns are used of the whole Godhead of three members as a unity (Ex. 20:3; Isa. 44:6,8; 45:5,21; 46:9; Hos. 13:4), just like the whole church as a unit is spoken of as a man and “he” (Eph. 2:14-15; 4:13; 5:25-27; 2Th. 2:7-8).
5. “Man is become as one of us” proves plurality of persons (Gen. 3:22).
6. Two and three Persons called God have been seen by the same men at the same time and places as being separate persons (Dan. 7:9-14; Mt. 3:16-17; Jn. 1:31-34; Acts 7:54-60; Rev. 6:16; 7:9-17; 21:22; 22:3).
7. Two Lords are mentioned in Gen. 19:24; one on earth and one in heaven.
8. Two Persons are referred to in the Old Testament See Ps. 8:5-6 with Heb. 2:5-18; Ps. 16:8-10 with Acts 2:25-36; Ps. 22:1-22 with Mt. 27:35,39-43,45-46; Heb. 9:14; 10:5-12; Ps. 40:6-10 with Heb. 10:5-7; and Ps. 45:6-7 with Heb. 1:8-9.
9. Two Lords are mentioned sitting side by side (Ps. 110:1,5; Mt. 22:44; 26:64; Acts 2:33-34; 7:54-56; Rom. 8:34; Eph. 1:20; Col. 3:1; Heb. 1:3,13; 8:1; 10:12; 12:2; 1Pet. 3:22; Rev. 22:3).
10. Two Persons are mentioned and required in order to understand the plain language of Ps. 2; 9:19; 132:17; Prov. 30:4; Isa. 4:2; 10:16-17; 28:16; 49:1-10; 50:4-11; 52:13 – Isa. 53:12; 62:11; Mic. 5:1-5; Jer. 23:4-8; 33:14-26; Zech. 3:8-10; 6:12-13. In these passages one is anointed, becomes the son of, is sent by, is taught by, and becomes the servant of the other; and both are called Lord.
11. Three self-acting Persons — the Lord God, the Messiah, and the Holy Spirit — are referred to as blessing, anointing, sending, and doing things for one another in Isa. 11:2; 42:1-7; 48:16; 59:21; 61:1-2; 63:1-14; Zech. 12:10 — Zech. 13:2.
12. In Zech. 1:7-21 the Lord of Hosts and the angel of the Lord (also called Lord, Zech. 1:19-20; 2:1-13) are talking together. One Lord says of the other Lord that He has sent Him to Israel (Zech. 2:8-13). One Lord refers to Himself as “Me” and to the Lord of Hosts as “His” and “He” (Zech. 2:8-11). The conference continues throughout Zechariah until Zech. 13:6-7 where both Lords are called fellows or associate.
13. Jesus Christ is called the son of Abraham, David, Mary, and of God (Mt. 1:1; Mk. 1:1; 6:3). He is just as much a separate person from God as He is of these other persons.
14. Two Persons are referred to many times in the New Testament (Mt. 11:27; Lk. 23:46; Jn. 1:1-2,18; 5:19-20; 14:1-9; 16:15; 17:3,10; Acts 2:38-39; 3:13-26; Php. 2:5-11; Eph. 3:5; Col. 1:5; 2Th. 2:16-17; Tit. 2:13; Heb. 1:1-3; Rev. 20:6; 22:3).
15. Two and three Persons are mentioned in the introductions to New Testament books (Rom. 1:1-4,7; 1Cor. 1:3; Jas. 1:1; 1Pet. 1:1-3; 2Jn. 1:3; Rev. 1:1-6; etc.).
16. God is the head of Christ and thus greater than He in position (1Cor. 3:23; 11:3; 1Chr. 29:11; Jn. 14:28).
17. Christ is the mediator between God and man, not between Himself and man (1Tim. 2:5).
18. Two and three Persons are referred to in every New Testament book (Mt. 3:16-17; 12:31-32; 17:5; 22:43-45; 28:19; Mk. 1:1-2,10; 13:32; Lk. 1:32-35; 2:40,52; 3:22; 4:1; 4:18; 9:35; 23:46; 24:39 with Jn. 4:24; Jn. 1:1-3,14,18; 5:17-25,31-38; 6:37,44-46,57; 7:16-18,28,37-39; 8:13-19,26-38,42,54; 10:15-18,24,29,36; 12:26-31,44,49-50; 14:1-26,28-30; 15:1-26; 16:1-33; 17:1-26; 18:11; 20:17,21; 18:11; 20:17,21; Acts 1:7-8; 2:24-36; 3:13-26; 4:10,26-31; 5:29-33; 7:37,55-56; 8:12-17; 9:17; 10:38-48; 17:31; Rom. 1:3,7,9; 5:1-11; 8:1-13,26-39; 1Cor. 1:3-9; 2:10; 3:23; 8:6; 11:3; 12:3; 15:57; 2Cor. 1:2-3; 5:17-21; 13:14; Gal. 1:1-3; Eph. 1:2-3; 3:14; 4:3-6; 6:23; Php. 1:2; 2:5-11; Col. 1:2-3,13-19; 3:1; 1Th. 1:1-10; 3:13; 2Th. 1:1-2; 2:16; 1Tim. 1:2; 2:5; 5:21; 6:14-16; 2Tim. 1:2; 4:1; Tit. 1:4; 2:13; Phm. 1:3; see note, Rev. 5:13 for 30 last New Testament references). In no conceivable way can we force a meaning of three persons in one person; three beings in one being; or three manifestations of only one person in any of these or any other scripture.
19. There are three distinct and separate witnesses that bear witness of Christ (1Jn. 5:5-11,13,20). Both God and man require this many personal and separate witnesses to confirm any point (Mt. 18:16; 2Cor. 13:1). The water and blood of 1Jn. 5:8 could not be accepted as accredited personal witnesses to confirm any point (Mt. 18:16; 2Cor. 13:1). The water and blood of 1Jn. 5:8 could not be accepted as accredited personal witness in themselves. The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are the only persnal witnesses of this passage. If we consider these to be only one person, then there are not the required number of witnesses to establish the truth of the Sonship of Jesus Christ. We are forced by facts to admit all of 1Jn. 5:7-8 as inspired Scripture and therefore, the fact that the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost are three separate and personal witnesses instead of being only one person or witness. Indeed, many scriptures confirm these three witnesses:
(1) The Father (Jer. 29:23; Mal. 3:5; Jn. 5:31-37, notes; Rom. 1:9; Heb. 1:1-2; 2:3-4)
(2) The Son (Isa. 55:4; Jn. 18:37; 1Tim. 6:13; Rev. 1:5)
(3) The Holy Spirit (Rom. 8:16; Jn. 15:26; Heb. 10:15; 1Jn. 3:6) If all three are witnesses, then they must be separate Persons. The water and the blood simply confirm the intelligent testimonies of the three Persons of the Godhead and give additional weight to the Sonship of Jesus.
20. The words through and by, used of Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit, but not once of the Father, prove that God to be a separate Person and the Head and Director of all things done by and through them (1Cor. 3:23; 11:3; Jn. 10:29; 14:28; 14:16-17,26; 15:26; 16:7-15; Acts 2:33-34):
(1) Through Jesus Christ (Acts 4:2; Rom. 1:8; 5:1,9,11; 6:23; 7:25; 15:17; 16:27; 1Cor. 15:57; 2Cor. 3:4; Gal. 3:14; 4:7; 5:10; Eph. 2:7,18; Php. 4:7,13; Tit. 3:6; Heb. 13:21; 1Pet. 1:22; 4:11; 1Jn. 4:9)
(2) By Jesus Christ (Jn. 1:3,10,17; 10:9; Acts 4:10; 10:36; Rom. 2:16; 3:22; 5:17,21; Gal. 1:1; Eph. 1:5; 3:9; Col. 1:15-20; 3:17; Heb. 1:1-3; 1Pet. 2:5; 5:10)
(3) Through the Holy Spirit (Acts 1:2; 21:4; Rom. 8:13; 15:13,19; Gal. 5:5; Eph. 2:22; Heb. 9:14)
(4) By the Holy Spirit (Ezek. 11:24; Mic. 3:8; Zech. 4:6; Mt. 12:28; Lk. 2:27; 4:1; Acts 11:28; Rom. 5:5; 15:19; 1Cor. 2:10; 6:11; 12:3,13)
Proofs that Jesus Is Not the Father:
21. The Father was in heaven all the time that Jesus was on earth (Mt. 5:16,48).
22. Christ now sits at the right hand of the Father (see note 9, above).
23. Jesus said He would confess men “before My Father,” proving He is not the Father (Mt. 10:32; Rev. 3:5).
24. Jesus always prayed to the Father as a separate Person (Mt. 11:25; Jn. 17).
25. The Father existed outside the body of Jesus, so He could not be Jesus (Mt. 2:12; 3:17; 17:5; Jn. 12:27-30).
26. Both Jesus and Satan refer to a God separate from Jesus (Mt. 4:6-10).
27. God was the Father of Jesus, not Jesus Himself (Eph. 1:3,17; 3:14).
28. In parables Jesus illustrates His relationship to the Father as that of separate persons (Mt. 21:33-46; Jn. 15:1-8).
29. People are taught to go directly to the Father and not to pray to Jesus (Jn. 14:12-15; 15:16; 16:23-26).
30. The Father knew things that Jesus did not know (Mk. 13:32; Acts 1:7).
31. Others saw Jesus as a separate Person from the Father (Dan. 7:9-14; Acts 7:56).
32. Jesus committed His own spirit to the Father, not to Himself (Lk. 23:46).
33. Jesus claimed that He came from God and was going back to God (Jn. 8:42; 16:5; 10:36; 17:8).
34. God is a Spirit, not flesh and blood like Jesus was (Jn. 4:24; 19:34; Mt. 16:17; Lk. 24:39).
35. People on earth with Jesus heard God speak as a separate person from heaven (Mt. 3:17; 17:5; 2Pet. 1:16-18).
36. Jesus claimed to be the Son of God, not the Father Himself (Jn. 5:17-35).
37. Jesus called the Father “My God,” even after the resurrection (Jn. 20:17; Rev. 3:12).
38. Jesus called God “My Father” 57 times (Jn. 15:1; Rev. 2:27). How could He be His own God and Father and beget Himself?
39. When Jesus was born on earth angels and people still recognized God in heaven (Lk. 2:7-16). Were they mistaken about God? Was the child all of God on earth and in heaven also?
40. Mary and Joseph acted with utmost ignorance if the baby Jesus was all of God, for they presented Him to the Lord Who was someone other than Jesus (Lk. 2:22).
41. Simeon had a revelation and guidance from the Holy Spirit that Jesus was not the only member of the Godhead (Lk. 2:26-33).
42. John the Baptist knew the Father, but he did not know the Son (Jn. 1:31-34).
43. The Son died, not the Father (1Cor. 15:3; 1Pet. 2:24).
44. Jesus was the only begotten Son of the Father, so could not be the Father or the begetter of Himself (Jn. 1:14).
45. Jesus claimed that He could not and did not do anything of Himself, but that the Father worked through Him (Jn. 5:19,30; 6:38; 8:28; 12:49-50).
46. He did not come to do His own will, but that of the Father who sent Him (Jn. 5:30; 6:38).
47. His doctrine was not His, but the Father’s (Jn. 7:16-17; 8:26).
48. He did not speak of Himself, but of the Father who had sent Him (Jn. 7:16-18; 8:26-40).
49. He did not please Himself, but the Father (Jn. 8:29).
50. He was a Son, not a Father over the house of God (Jn. 8:35-36; Heb. 3:6).
51. He had the same relation to His Father that men have with Satan (Jn. 8:16,35-44; 9:4).
52. He honored the Father as all people should (Jn. 8:49).
53. He did not seek His own glory, but that of the Father (Jn. 8:50-54; 17:4).
54. He knew the Father, but was not the Father (Jn. 8:55; 10:15).
55. He was loved by the Father as a separate person (Jn. 10:17-18).
56. He kept the Father’s commandments and they were not His own (Jn. 12:49-50; 15:10).
57. His disciples were given to Him by the Father (Jn. 10:29; 17:1-25).
58. He was equal with the Father in some things, but not in others (Mk. 13:32; Jn. 5:17-39; 8:13-19,29-42; 19:18-29; Acts 1:7; 1Cor. 11:3; Rev. 1:1).
59. He and the Father were in unity and in each other in the same sense believers are to be in unity and in God (Jn. 10:38; 14:10-11,23; 17:11,21-23).
60. He was the only way to the Father (Jn. 6:37; 14:6).
61. He said, I am not alone or the only witness of My sonship. The Father is another witness (Jn. 5:36-38; 8:13-19,54; 12:49-50; 14:10-11).
62. Over 80 times Jesus affirmed that He was not the Father and not the only person in the Godhead. Christ was the speaker, but not the one spoken of or to (Mt. 7:21; 11:27; 18:10,35; Lk. 2:49; Jn. 5:17-43; 8:19-49; 10:17-37; 14:7-28; 15:1-26; Rev. 1:1; etc.). Is it any wonder that the Godhead, the Trinity, and the unity of God are so mysterious when we force separate persons to become only one person, all because we do not want to recognize the true meaning of the word one as referring to unity rather than individuality in some scriptures? People would be just as great a mystery if we forced the meaning of all men to refer to one person.
63. He was not as great as His Father (Jn. 10:29; 14:28; cp. 1Cor. 11:3).
64. The Father (Mt. 3:17), Jesus (Jn. 10:36), angels (Lk. 1:32-35), demons (Mk. 3:11; 5:7), and apostles (Mt. 16:16; Jn. 1:14; Rom. 8:32; 2Jn. 1:3), all declare the sonship of Jesus, but not once do they declare a Christ-fatherhood.
65. The Father and the Son spoke to each other in audible voices at the same time and place, being heard by many witnesses (Mt. 3:16-17; 7:5; Jn. 12:27-30; 2Pet. 1:17). In no single instance could such speaking be explained as the voice of one individual or be used to prove one Person in the Deity.
66. The word “both” is used of the Father and the Son, proving two Persons (Jn. 15:24; 2Jn. 1:9).
67. The word “also” is used of the Father and the Son, proving two Persons (Jn. 5:19,27; 8:19; 13:32; 14:1).
68. The statement, “They have not known the Father nor Me,” proves two Persons (Jn. 16:3,5).
69. Christ received all power in heaven and in earth (Mt. 28:18). The Father had to be greater than Jesus to give Him that power (Jn. 14:28).
70. Jesus was resurrected and exalted by the Father, so He could not be the Father (Eph. 1:20-23; Php. 2:9-11; Heb. 12:2; 1Pet. 3:22)
71. God made Jesus both Lord and Christ (Acts 2:33-36).
72. Six times in Jn. 14:1-9 Jesus made it clear that He was not the Father.
Holy Spirit Is Not Jesus Or the Father:
73. The Holy Spirit is another Person, distinct from both the Father and the Son (Jn. 5:32; 14:16-17,26; 15:26; 16:7-15).
74. It was necessary that Jesus go away so that the Holy Spirit could come (Jn. 16:5-15).
75. He has been seen with the natural eyes as a separate Person from the Father and the Son (Mt. 3:16-17; Jn. 1:31-34; Rev. 4:5; 5:6).
76. He is symbolized as a separate Person with Christ, both of them before God who sits on a throne (Rev. 1:4-5; 3:1; 4:5; 5:6).
77. He could not be sent from God until Christ was glorified, but would then be sent from both the Father and the Son (Jn. 7:37-39; Acts 2:33-34).
78. He was sent from the Father to endow Jesus with power. This required three Persons: the One who sent Him, the One being sent, and the One who received Him (Acts 10:38; Isa. 11:2; 42:1-7; 61:1-2).
79. A clear distinction is made of the names of all three Persons (Mt. 28:19; 2Cor. 13:14; 1Jn. 5:7).
80. A clear distinction is made between the Son who prays, the Father to whom He prays, and the Holy Spirit for whom He prays (Jn. 14:16).
81. A clear distinction is made between the Son on the right hand of the Father, the Father on the left hand of the Son, and the Holy Spirit who is sent from the Father and the Son (Acts 2:33-36; 7:56; Jn. 14:16-17,26; 15:26; 16:7-15).
82. The Son was already given (Jn. 3:16), when the Spirit was not yet given (Jn. 7:39).
83. The Son can be blasphemed with forgiveness possible; but if the Spirit is blasphemed, no forgiveness is possible. This proves two distinct Persons (Mt. 12:31-32; Mk. 3:29-30; Lk. 12:10).
84. The Samaritans received Jesus, but had not yet received the Holy Spirit (Acts 8:5-25).
85. Jesus could do no miracle by Himself (Jn. 5:19), but by the Holy Spirit He did many miracles (Jn. 2:11; Acts 10:38)
86. The Holy Spirit came not to speak of or glorify Himself, but to speak of and glorify Jesus (Jn. 16:7-15).
87. The descent of the Holy Spirit proved the arrival of Jesus in heaven to sit at the right hand of God, thus proving three Persons (Acts 2:33-34; Jn. 7:39).
88. Jesus claimed even after the resurrection that He was not a spirit being, so He could not be the Father or the Holy Spirit who are spirit beings (Lk. 24:39; Jn. 4:24; 14:16-17,26; 15:26; 16:7-15).
89. In the last book of the Bible the Trinity is seen as working together in all things (Rev. 1:4-6; 3:1; 4:5; 5:6; 21:10; 22:17).” />
John Kissinger [01/04/2016 8:38 AM]
500 MORE BIBLE Scriptures proving a Divine Trinity http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:1cvRxWFb3GwJ:bradycrum.com/2014/10/12/500-scriptures-proving-a-divine-trinity/+&cd=5&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us
Corey Forsyth [01/04/2016 8:56 AM]
I am commenting to come back and read this later. Can’t wait to see the comments from this one. 😀
John Kissinger [01/04/2016 8:56 AM]
Corey Forsyth on the move…
John Ruffle [01/04/2016 8:57 AM]
Whatttt!!!! Is this quoting from Dakes? The purpose being… to print off his entire work and avoid copyright? I don’t get it and certainly not going to read it. Nice picture though.
For goodness dakes man ?
John Kissinger [01/04/2016 8:58 AM]
WHO is worthy to OPEN the SCROLL with 589 proofs of the #TRINITY ???
John Ruffle [01/04/2016 9:00 AM]
Guys.. time to get to know the Jesus of the Book better and better and BE his disciples. He is the living Word of God. Dakes isn’t.
Corey Forsyth [01/04/2016 9:18 AM]
So because I am rather new to this in many respects, what is wrong or right with Dakes? What are the reliable standards in the realm of study bibles?
John Ruffle [01/04/2016 9:26 AM]
What if we simply BAN all study Bibles? Are they not in danger of becoming Idles rather than Bibles? Just stick to the two inner rails for heaven’s sake.
John Ruffle [01/04/2016 9:32 AM]
Who wants to ban me from the group or is it better I resign? These recent threads seem to have little to do with penticostalist theology, charismatic renewal or any charisma at all. Guys to me being a Holy Spirit led and filled believer is all about submission to God awe and reverence .. its not about thinking one has his or her theology so down pat that you can argue the other guy whom Christ died for into a corner. Can no one I this group see just his me DIVISIVE that is? Oh folks.. just to worship Jesus. Please!
John Kissinger [01/04/2016 9:35 AM]
Trinity and oneness theology both have lot to do with Pentecostal Theology as they form the basic pneumatology as the bases of Pentecostalism
William Lance Huget [01/04/2016 3:41 PM]
Some Pentecostals are trinitarian and some Oneness. Dake had an usual 9 person theory that influenced Jimmy Swaggart and Benny Hinn (the latter has renounced it now). William Branham was Oneness. We need great care and discernment when using one man only. There are far more credible, conservative, evangelical scholarship (Fee=Pentecostal, etc.) than some of the speculative ideas of Dake (gap theory, etc.) and others.
John Kissinger [01/04/2016 3:43 PM]
You think gap theory is speculative or Dake’s? Care to elaborate in the Gap theory discussion? https://www.facebook.com/groups/thelogy/permalink/942741379114211/
William Lance Huget [01/04/2016 3:45 PM]
Dake gap theory influenced some Pentecostals. www.icr.org (search for gap theory refutations).
John Kissinger [01/04/2016 3:48 PM]
gap did not start with Dake http://www.pentecostaltheology.com/thomas-newberry-reference-bible-of-1890-published-in-london/
John Kissinger [01/08/2016 5:25 AM]
Derrick Harmon THIS! Corey Forsyth Did you finish reading it?
Corey Forsyth [01/08/2016 6:31 AM]
Yes. I do not and have not used a Dakes before. However, this is how I have seen the Godhead for many years of toiling with this issue. All of the mysterious questions of God’s nature are answered with this belief. No room for confusion in my book. This has been my belief on the issue for some time. Thanks for sharing this slightly exhaustive outline. 🙂
John Kissinger [01/09/2016 8:51 AM]
no takers on the doctrine of #TRINITY this week? 🙂
John Kissinger [01/09/2016 7:19 PM]
we may have just converted all Jesus-only in this group into the doctrine of the #TRINITY #wellDONE ya’ll 🙂
John Conger [01/09/2016 9:35 PM]
So which one raised Christ from the dead? Jesus said he would raise himself. But if the spirit that raised Christ from the sea doesn’t live in us we ain’t saved, however it was the father is what scripture said. So which one again if they are not the same?
John Kissinger [01/09/2016 9:59 PM]
YES! Timothy Carter
William Lance Huget [01/10/2016 12:09 AM]
Creation, redemption, resurrection, etc. are said to be from God, from the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Spirit (verses can be found about each or all together). It is the work of the triune God. This does not prove modalism, but refutes it.
Timothy Carter [01/10/2016 12:23 AM]
John Conger the answer is “YES”
Jesus said that He and the Father are one (John 17 and many other places) that He only does what He sees the Father do. So yes Jesus raised Himself. This is by way of He needs NO Human to say “come forward!” As Lazarus needed. Also The Father raised Him because it is the will of the Father that He be raised.
John Conger [01/10/2016 12:54 AM]
So you agree they’re not two different people?
William Lance Huget [01/10/2016 1:04 AM]
The Father and Son are personally distinct, yet share the same eternal nature as the one true God, YHWH. Arianism, polytheism, Sabellianism are wrong views. The biblical, historical, orthodox view is trinitarianism.
John Kissinger [01/10/2016 7:14 AM]
No John Conger there’s no people in the #TRINITY – just GOD
Timothy Carter [01/10/2016 9:49 AM]
John Conger I believe in trinity. No one has a perfect description.
Varnel Watson
Michael Hazlewood all true and ALL BIBLE – your response to any top 3 of the 89?
Varnel Watson
Hey AJ Gambhir and Miller Isaac since Michael Hazlewood gave up on proving the Trinity via his oneness WHICH solid Biblical proof of this you would prove wrong? Number and proof pls
AJ Gambhir
were there 89 verses? I feel its more about how people describe Trinity and words they use. I tend to stay away from saying 3 persons, person word doesnt apply on Spirit and the Father entity. The word “form or entity” is better. Definitely all three are different in some aspects. Find one verse where anyone can harm the Father form? but people did harm the Son or basically God in physical form. They did mock the Son and were forgiven but what about blasphemy to the Holy Spirit? so one form was hurt and mocked and people were forgiven but heresy towards the Spirit isnt? Oneness pentecostals basically lack exposure to spiritual stuff, they know something but they still dont know it enough. Oneness belief is that a person cannot have other spiritual gifts like prophecy and exorcisms without the gift of tongues. But practically, people have spoken in tongues and prophecized even before having water baptism. Oneness churches lack practical knowledge of Spiritual realm of Bible; hence they dont understand how a person can prophecise without tongues or some other beliefs they hold. Again its not so much about Trinity as Oneness people believe in Trinity also but they dont use it in every way; hence they are confused to understand the concept of Trinity.
AJ Gambhir
I personally lean more towards understanding Divinity vs manhood than concept of Trinity or other views
AJ Gambhir
Some theologians are also saying that Jesus was just as tempted as we are, which means carnal thoughts went through Jesus’s thought process because He was fully man. Now this analogy disregards the Divinity aspect, its like saying Jesus was fully man so He should have sinned also. Just coz several theologians believe that toddlers carry sins of Adam in them, weird stuff. Its human wisdom that lacks respect for Divinity sometimes and achieve benefits. Because if they can prove that Jesus was equally tempted, now they can say its okay to have carnal thoughts in a person’s life. No judgement towards those who struggle but the idea to lower the spiritually grown examples in Bible to justify one’s flaws is old tactic, although commonly used these days also
Varnel Watson
AJ Gambhir So AT THE baptism on the river Jordan as Jesus was standing in the water WHO spoke from the heavens and WHO descended as a dove over Jesus ?
AJ Gambhir
Jesus if stood in His full Divinity, He would have melted mountains and some funny ecological stuff would have happened. It’s basically the format of how even though Omnipotent, his body was affected by natural stuff.
In short, Jesus represents a body, that was embodied by God and His full Spiritual power wasn’t available on Earth at that moment.
So at the river, it’s transitioning of His Power. If Jesus was blameless all throughout, was there a need for Baptism?
Baptism here represents that Jesus or God was showing how people should be Baptized
AJ Gambhir
Omnipresence shows how Jesus being God was on Earth n still in Heaven and His presence can be felt everywhere. It’s a good example of Omnipresence in that Baptism event
Jeremy Rice
Troy Day the Holy Spirit. Jesus gave us the example that we could do the works of God by the Holy Spirits empowerment. He was divine God almighty himself in a mortal body . He could have done ✅ any miracle s he wanted but he wanted to show we could do what he could do empowered by the Holy Ghost .
Varnel Watson
Jeremy Rice are you saying Jesus did not send the Holy Ghost on Pentecost ?
Jeremy Rice
Troy Day no I was saying he did . The Holy Ghost is a distinct 3rd person of the trinity. Jesus the 2nd person . The son of the living God and the first person is the Father .
Stephen Suba
Never anywhere in the Bible it says Hear o Israel Lord your God is Triune. It doesn’t exist. There is Only ONE God and There are lots of One God references not one Triune. There is only ONE God who is Spirit and came into this world and took name Jesus.
And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifested in the flesh, Justified in the Spirit, Seen by angels, Preached among the Gentiles, Believed on in the world, Received up in glory.
I Timothy 3:16
Varnel Watson
so when you say NO references
WHO did Jesus pray to when he said
oh Father… unto thee I give my spirit ?
Stephen Suba
Perfect man in flesh was praying to His Godhead. Jesus was 100 percent man and fullness of Godhead. He was praying to His Godhead side to show us where to turn to.
God dwells in unapproachble light and powerful Glory no one has ever seen Him or can see. 1 Tim 6:15.
This unapproachble light became approachable in Christ Jesus John 1:9.
If Triune God’s are co equal then why Jesus prayed to God???
Because it doesn’t exist. MAN Jesus was praying to Jesus the God, The great I am, The everlasting father..
God in His essential being is invisible (John 1:18, I Timothy 1:17), unknowable (Luke 10:22, Matthew 11:27), immaterial (John 4:24), omnipresent (Psalm 139:7-12), is one in number and unity (Deuteronomy 6:4), is Father of the universe as Creator / Progenitor (Isaiah 63:16, 9:6, Psalm 89:26), and Paternally to humanity as Nurturer and Caregiver (Psalm 103:13, Matthew 9:6)…
The Word is God self-revealing (John.1:1-3), God’s self-disclosure of Himself (Hebrew1:1-3, Isaiah 9:6), God going out from Himself (Revelation 5:6,7) God proceeding or emanating; the one whose “goings forth” have been from of old, from everlasting (Micah 5:2 Revelation 1:8).
Jesus Christ is the Word become flesh (John 1: 1, 14 Micah 5:2), God manifest in the flesh (I Timothy 3:16), the image of the invisible God (Colossians 1:15), and in Him dwelleth all the fullness of the Godhead bodily (Colossians 2:9). He is God visible (Hebrews 1:1-3), knowable (John 14:8), approachable (Matthew 11:28-30), touchable (I John. 1:1-3, John. 20:27), is the revealer of the Father (John 14:9, 17:6), the only way to the Father (Matthew 11:27, John 14:6-8), and the Father revealed (John 10:30, Isaiah.9:6, Revelation 1:8, 11). He is the Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, the Almighty, which was, and is, and is to come (Revelation 1:8). He is also completely human (Hebrews 2:10-18), the true son of Mary (Matthew 2:1, Luke 2:33, 34, Galatians 4:4), the second man Adam (I Corinthians 15:47), the last Adam (I Corinthians 15:45), and the Son of God by both birth (Luke 1:35, Rom. 1:3), and declaration (Romans 1:4, Acts 13:33). His victory over death, hell, and the grave (I Corinthians 15:1-4) elevates the name of Jesus to the position of highest universal authority. The full power and authority of the Godhead is encapsulated in that name (John 5:43, Philippians 2:9, John 14:13, 14, 26, Acts 4:12).
The Holy Spirit is God indwelling the believer in personal agency, (Jeremiah 31:31-33, Romans 8:9), is one Spirit (I Corinthians 12:13), is the Spirit of Grace (Hebrews 10:29), is the Spirit of God (Romans 8:9), is the Spirit of Jesus (John 14:17, 18, Acts 16:7, II Corinthians 3:17), is the source of and medium for dispensing God’s grace in the Church Age (Acts 2:38, I Corinthians 12:l), and is essential for salvation (Acts 2:36-38, 11:14, Romans 8:9).
I gave you the whole Bible Reference for ONE God. Any doctrine can’t be established with ONE verse or one reference. Though there is not one Triune God verse or reference. May Lord God bless you & give you all revelation of One True Living God who took on flesh and took name Jesus the name which is above all the names and there is no other name Name.
Thomas Henry Jr.
Stephen Suba your argument is faulty the Bible no where used the term incarnation
Atheists
Omnipresent
Omnipotent
Omniscient
And other terms you do not deny. The Bible never has to say Trinity for it to be biblical.
Your initial argument is faulty
Isara Mo
Troy Day
Or why did the Father say ” This is my beloved Son listen to Him…”during Jesus Baptism?
Or Jesus saying ” I am going to MY FATHER, who is your Father and MY GOD who is your God…”
What about I and the FATHER ARE ONE, but the Father is greater than I…(???)
What about this simple formula:
I am the WAY, the TRUTH and the LIFE and NOBODY COMES TO THE FATHER ….EXCEPT THRU ME”..
In Hebrews God says of the Son “Your throne , God..”
The Father calls the Son God, the Son calls God ” My Father”…
Jesus the Son said “You believe in God, believe in me also”…
Isara Mo
Stephen Suba
Sure brother there is no one verse which says a ” triune God” but if you have your Bible can you read Matthew 3…the Baptism of Jesus and tell me if your argument is solid…?
Isara Mo
//As soon as Jesus was baptized, he went up out of the water. At that moment heaven was opened, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and alighting on him. And a voice from heaven said, “This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased.”
Matthew 3:16-17 NIV//
Is this ONE PERSON or THREE PERSONS?
Stephen Suba
.
And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifested in the flesh, Justified in the Spirit, Seen by angels, Preached among the Gentiles, Believed on in the world, Received up in glory.
I Timothy 3:16.
Read my detailed post and keep meditating on it until Lord break the strongholds in Jesus name.
Stephen Suba
God can present him in multiple places and multiple forms. He doesn’t live in time or space. Mention of father son and Holy Spirit doesn’t mean 3 God’s. It’s still one.
Stephen Suba
My brother if u read my Post and open your bible you will get answer to your question. It tells me you didn’t read it.
Stephen Suba
Isara Mo i did and replied to u.
Isara Mo
Jesus fully man fully God on earth(not Heaven) came to a baptism.
At the baptism THE SPIRIT OF GOD descended on Jesus of Nazareth(the fully man, fully God) ….and a VOICE FROM HEAVEN….(An entity and surely this is the Father for He addresses Jesus as “MY SON WHOM I LOVE…WITH WHOM I AM WELL PLEASED…”.
If you are to be honest with yourself Stephen, the incident reveals THREE DISTINCT PERSONS…
Isara Mo
Stephen Suba
Mention of Father,Son and Holy Spirit DOESN’T MEAN 3 GODS FOR SURE.
IT is still ONE..
If something is a MYSTERY as the epistle says I think we should address it (the Godliness) as a mystery…it not an easy thing to explain but the TRINITY IS THERE…
The interpretation or misinterpretations won’t change the fact that the TRINITY IS THERE..
I have read all the scriptures you have quoted in your post (in fact most of them i have read and re read over 100 times or more) trying to unravel the MYSTERY….and yet am.still learning up to now..
Mitchell Effie Catron
Isara Mo one is human ,the other is spirit…where is the third
Stephen Suba
Isara Mo read it again the whole verse and He is revealing the mystery and not mystery anymore. It was kept secrets from angels and prophets but was revealed when the fullness of time came. Also read the History of the 1 Timothy. This letter was written to backsld church which was introducing false doctrines.. I feel sorry for people who still preach it as mystery while Paul revealing this mystery we can take the half part and discard the rest. God bless
Isara Mo
Mitchell Effie Catron
Who is human?
Isara Mo
Mitchell Effie Catron
The WORD BECAME FLESH IS NOT HUMAN ONLY..(HE WAS ON EARTH)
ONE EMANATED FROM HEAVEN. ..TO IDENTIFY THE WORD MADE FLESH AND THE THIRD, WHO IS THE ONE IN ALL, SPOKE..
???
Stephen Suba
Isara Mo You can keep worshiping your man made Triune God. Which only exist in pagan religions. I will keep worshipping my One True Apostolic God whose name.isJesus. I live, sleep, eat and breath in this name. I have healing ministry and I have healed countless people worldwide in Only One name that’s Jesus. Cast out demons, cancer, and all kinds of health issues instantly healed, broken bones instantly put back together, hearing and eyes retored, every kind of sickness diseases and pains and health issue gone in only name.thats not Triune. I only preach One God who is Spirit and came and lived among men to reconcile them to Himself and that powerful name.of Jesus.
Mitchell Effie Catron
Isara Mo in the beginning was the word ,the word was with God and word was God. The word was made flesh and dwelt among us.
Steve Losee
There are two words in Hebrew for “one”. ALL the references you’re thinking about use the word for “unity”, NOT the numerical value of one. Your argument is based on English mistranslations.
Isara Mo
I’m.happy I don’t worship in your church…
Isara Mo
Stephen Suba
I’m happy not to be a member of your church….
Blessed are you for the ministry but remember Jesus also said something about you kind of folks” I never knew you..you evil doers”
In your name we cast out demons, we healed the sick, we raised the dead(im sure you can’t boast on this one..though)…
Yes you preach ONE GOD who sent His Only begotten SPIRIT(?) that whoever believes in Him(the Spirit…?) shall not perish but have everlasting life..
Isara Mo
Mitchell Effie Catron
He went and took the scroll from the right hand of him who sat on the throne. Then I heard every creature in heaven and on earth and under the earth and on the sea, and all that is in them, saying: “To him who sits on the throne and to the Lamb be praise and honor and glory and power, for ever and ever!” The four living creatures said, “Amen,” and the elders fell down and worshiped.
Revelation 5:7, 13-14 NIV
https://bible.com?
Isara Mo
Mitchell Effie Catron
Then I looked, and there before me was the Lamb, standing on Mount Zion, and with him 144,000 who had his name and his Father’s name written on their foreheads.
Revelation 14:1 NIV
?
Mitchell Effie Catron
Isara Mo 12000 from each tribe, there is only one name and its Jesus
Isara Mo
Stephen Suba
//His eyes are like blazing fire, and on his head are many crowns. He has a name written on him that no one knows but he himself.
Revelation 19:12 NIV//
A name which no one KNOWS BUT HIMSELF….
Miller Isaac
Is the word trinity in the Bible? No.
Does the Bible say that there are three persons in the Godhead? No.
Does the Bible speak of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost? Yes.
Do these titles as used in Matthew 28:19 mean that there are three separate and distinct persons in the Godhead? No, they refer to three offices, roles, or relationship to humanity.
Does the Bible use the word three in reference to God? Only one verse in the entire Bible does so-1 John 5:7. It speaks of the Father, the Word (instead of Son), and the Holy Ghost, and it concludes by saying, “These three are one.”
Does the Bible use the word one in reference to God? Yes, many times. For example, see Zechariah 14:9; Malachi 2:10; Matthew 23:9; Mark 12:29, 32; John 8:41; 10:30; Romans 3:30; 1 Corinthians 8:4; Galatians 3:20; 1 Timothy 2:5; James 2:19.
Can the mystery of the Godhead be understood? Yes. Romans 1:20; Colossians 2:9; 1 Timothy 3:16.
Has the Christian only one Heavenly Father? Yes. Matthew 23:9.
Then why did Jesus say to Philip, “He that hath seen me hath seen the Father” (John 14:39)?Because Jesus is the express image of God’s person. Hebrews 1:3. The Greek word forpersonin this verse literally means “substance.”
Does the Bible say that there are two persons in the Godhead? No.
Does the Bible say that all the Godhead is revealed in one person? Yes, in Jesus Christ. 2 Corinthians 4:4; Colossians 1:19; 2:9; Hebrews 1:3.
Is the mystery of the Deity hidden from some people? Yes. Luke 10:21-22.
Who is the Father? The Father is the one God, particularly as revealed in parental relationship to humanity. Deuteronomy 32:6; Malachi 2:10.
Where was God the Father while Jesus was on earth? The Father was in Christ. John 14:10; 2 Corinthians 5:19. He was also in heaven, for God is omnipresent.
Did the prophet Isaiah say that Jesus would be the Father? Yes. Isaiah 9:6; 63:16.
When God said, “Let us make man in our image” (Genesis 1:26), was He speaking to another person in the Godhead? No. Isaiah 44:24; Malachi 2:10.
How many of God’s qualities were in Christ? All. Colossians 2:9.
How may we see the God who sent Jesus into the world? By seeing Jesus. John 12:44-45; 14:9.
Does the Bible say that Jesus is the Almighty? Yes. Revelation 1:8
Whom do some designate as the first person in the trinity? God the Father.
Whom do some designate as the last person in the trinity? The Holy Ghost. But Jesus said that He was the first and last. Revelation 1:17-18
How many persons did John see sitting on the throne in heaven? One. Revelation 4:2.
If Jesus is the first and the last, why did God say in Isaiah 44:6 that He was the first and the last? Because Jesus is the God of the Old Testament incarnate.
Did Jesus tell Satan that God alone should be worshipped? Yes. Matthew 4:10
Does the devil believe in more than one God? No. James 2:19.
Does the Bible say that God, who is the Word, was made flesh? Yes John 1:1, 14.
For what purpose was God manifested in the flesh? To save sinners. Hebrews 2:9, 14.
Was Jesus God manifested in the flesh? Yes. 1 Timothy 3:16.
Could Jesus have been on earth and in heaven at the same time? Yes. John 3:13.
Does the Bible say that there is but one Lord? Yes. Isaiah 45:18; Ephesians 4:5.
Does the Bible say that Christ is the Lord? Yes. Luke 2:11.
Does the Bible say that the Lord is God? Yes. I kings 18:39; Zechariah 14:5; Acts 2:39; Revelation 19:1.
How could the church belong to Jesus (Matthew 16:18) and yet be the church of God (1 Corinthians 10:32)? Because Jesus is God in the flesh.
Will God give His glory to another? No. Isaiah 42:8.
Was there a God formed before Jehovah, or will there be one formed after? No. Isaiah 43:10.
What is one thing that God does not know? Another God. Isaiah 44:8.
What is one thing that God Cannot do? Lie. Titus 1:2.
How many Gods should we know? Only one. Hosea 13:4.
How many names has the Lord? One. Zechariah 14:9.
Is it good to think upon the name of the Lord? Yes. Malachi 3:16.
Does the Bible say that God alone treads upon the waves of the sea? Yes. Job 9:8
Why, then, was Jesus able to walk upon the Sea of Galilee (Matthew 14:25)? Because He is God the Creator. Colossians 1:16.
Is God the only one who can forgive sin? Yes. Isiah 43:25; Mark 2:7.
Why, then, could Jesus forgive sin in Mark 2:5-11? Because He is God the Savior.
Is Jesus the true God? Yes. 1 John 5:20.
If God and the Holy Ghost are two separate persons, which was the Father of Christ?Matthew 1:20 says that the Holy Ghost was the Father, while Romans 15:6, 2 Corinthians 11:31, and Ephesians 1:3 say that God was the Father. There is no contradiction when we realize that God the Father and the Holy Ghost are one and the same Spirit. Matthew 10:20; Ephesians 4:4; 1 Corinthians 3:16.
When Paul asked the Lord who He was, what was the answer? “I am Jesus.” Acts 9:5.
When Stephen was dying, did he call God Jesus? Yes. Acts 7:59.
Did Thomas ever call Jesus God? Yes. John 20:28.
How could Jesus be the Savior, when God the Father said in Isaiah 43:11, “Beside me there is no Savior?” Because “God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself.” 2 Corinthians 5:19.
Does the Bible say that Jesus was God with us? Yes. Matthew 1:23.
Did Jesus ever say, “I and my Father are one?” Yes. John 10:30.
Can it be proved scripturally that Jesus and the Father are one in the same sense that husband and wife are one? No. The Godhead was never compared to the relationship of a husband and wife. Jesus identified Himself with the Father in a way that husband and wife cannot be identified with each other. John 14:9-11.
Does the Bible say that there is only one wise God? Yes. Jude 25.
Does the Bible call the Holy Ghost a second or third person in the Godhead? No. The Holy Ghost is the one Spirit of God, the one God Himself at work in our lives. John 4:24; 1 Corinthians 3:16-17; 6:19; 12:13.
Can Trinitarians show that three divine persons were present when Jesus was baptized by John? Absolutely not. The one, omnipresent God used three simultaneous manifestations. Only one divine person was present–Jesus Christ the Lord.
Then what were the other two of whom Trinitarians speak? One was a voice from heaven; the other was the Spirit of God in the form of a dove. Matthew 3:16-17.
What did the voice say at Jesus’ baptism? “Thou art my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.” Mark 1:11. As the Son of God, Jesus was the one God incarnate.
Does the Bible say that God shed His blood and that God laid down His life for us? Yes. Acts 20:28; 1 John 3:16. God was able to do this because He had taken upon Himself a human body.
The Bible says that God is coming back with all his saints (Zechariah 14:5) and also that Jesus is coming back with all his saints (1 Thessalonians 3:13). Are two coming back? No. Only one is coming back–our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ. Titus 2:13.
Miller Isaac
guys your click bait “proofs” contradict the Bible more than the tooth fair. you’re just stuck on tradition like drug addicts.
Miller Isaac
if you go with these arguments you in your click bait then sometimes 2 Gods makes more sense and sometimes 22 and sometimes more or less but nothing says 3 distinct persons.
it’s like i can say i’m a person with an ego and a body and a mind and soul who’s a son and uncle and could be a father and i talk to myself once in a while and i’ve done several different things in my personal history oh that’s confusing well let me just comand you that i only have 1 spirit and 1 name just like the God who created me in his image and you’re like “okay so you’re 3 people cool got it!”!!!
David Pereira Loguzzo
We have to accept that the trinity is nothing but theology…..Based on philosophical premises period…. there is only one person, is Jesus and in him dwells the fullness of the Godhead….
Miller Isaac
but David… that’s to believe the Bible and not man made false doctrines and the Bible hurts people’s feelings sometimes so let’s all just do whatever makes us feel good and get along! JK
David Pereira Loguzzo
Miller Isaac that is why we have so many “types of Christianity”
Miller Isaac
David Pereira Loguzzo yeah but a christian is just someone trying to follow Jesus Christ. Getting stuck on a man made doctrine is’t a type of that. It’s just holding onto lies because it’s comfortable. Jesus came to afflict the comfortable and comfort the afflicted. Finding truth and following Jesus is a life lifelong process that will always include some purging away of false ideas or at least acknowledging what lines up with Bible truth and what’s in direct opposition to it and what is just a hindrance to gaining more truth. How can we help save the world when we insist on holding to made up words used to murder millions of people. Most who will not become christian use the inquisitions and wars over the trinity as excuse to never find more of God. Why not just accept… oh that was a mistake christianity made for a while during the middle ages based on man made doctrine like Mary is a Goddess and the praying to the saints and purgatory and other things that were just made up to put together pagan pantheism with Judeo-Christian monotheism…. so yeah lay down your swords of not the Word and find some truth by setting aside everything that’s not biblical ?
David Pereira Loguzzo
Miller Isaac some people just can’t give up scholastics…. even today with psychological approaches etc
Miller Isaac
David Pereira Loguzzo yeah it’s like someone smoking now saying “but my doctor said 40 years ago that it’s good for me and most people believed it!”
David Pereira Loguzzo
True
David Pereira Loguzzo
Notice on the Pentecostal denomination that adopted traditional theology end up on ecumenism or becoming Roman Catholic
Miller Isaac
David Pereira Loguzzo yeah well this is the issue with church organization and politics. people should go worship and learn together but then man made church hairchies form and the leaders have to keep each other politically happy and the new people want to grow in their organization so they are told what traditions to mimic and what bible to ignore…. it’s a trap. The book of acts church that was murdered by about 300Ad just focused on God and not all the man made ideas. If you want to have a trinity doctrine… fine just admit it’s not biblical like purgatory and unicorns and it’s something to make you feel good and that’s fine… have a feel good belief til you grow out of it but don’t get stuck on something in direct opposition to the Bible or you can’t claim to be a bible believer.
Miller Isaac
David Pereira Loguzzo there’s plenty of people who believe the Bible is just a good book to learn from with good stories. That’s what you have to be if you say there’s another God or person next to God or another name… it’s just as bad as saying Jesus was just good prophet… you can say that but that would make him an antichrist by definition soooo… either Jesus is the 1 true God with the one spirit in him and us just like the Word says emphatically or you just believe the Bible is nice stories like the myths of homer or alchemy or Disney. It’s really that simple.
Paul L. King
Miller Isaac you have the facts wrong. The term term trinity was coined in the 2nd century, not in the Middle Ages, not by the Catholic church, and has nothing to do with the worship of Mary or purgatory.
Jeff Johnson
Why can’t we just agree that “great is the mystery”? When we get to heaven we will all probably find that none of us were right and the time we spent fussing was time wasted! The days are evil and there are souls to be preached to!! I love you all and really enjoy reading these threads but too much time is spent by both sides trying to get the other to agree.
Miller Isaac
great news Jeff!
16And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.
Glad we all agree when the Bible reveals the great mystery in plain language ?
Miller Isaac
not a waste of time when people want to contradict scripture and act like that’s a great idea.
Jeff Johnson
Miller Isaac I don’t agree with your stance on this. Too many evidences of a triune God for that. But as I said it’s a mystery. If I could explain and understand God with my finite mind, He wouldn’t be an infinite God. And I am ok with that
Miller Isaac
Jeff Johnson it’s not my stance. Literally all i do is quote Bible and point out common sense.
The bible just said we can understand this much of God’s mystery and explains how he’s one God doing many things.
It’s like the Bible saying God only has one name and that’s Jesus then somone says but 1000 years ago someone said his name is also Fred. To say it’s really just Jesus isn’t a stance it’s just reading.
Jeff Johnson
Miller Isaac it’s really nothing like that Fred, I mean miller. I’m out brother. Be blessed!
Miller Isaac
Steve Losee
In the entire Bible, there is only one definition: Heb. 11:1. Bu there are lots of descriptions. The word “trinity” is a definition of what the Bible repeatedly describes. If you refuse to see it, you serve a different god and we don’t have much else to talk about.
Miller Isaac
okay steve ignore the Bible you don’t agree with and insert unicorns ?
Miller Isaac
triunicorns make more Bible sense than the trinity ???
Steve Losee
I didn’t ignore the Bible, but using accusations means you don’t really have anything rational to say.
Miller Isaac
you ignore acts 4:12 and all the verses i quote saying one and only one.
Steve Losee
WHERE does it say “one and only one”? I want to see those exact words in Scripture, NOT your comments on it.
Miller Isaac
Miller Isaac
Miller Isaac
Steve Losee
I totally agree with eve of those verses. But none of them say there is no tri-unity in the Godhead, and none of themre about the nature of God; they’re all about Jesus and who HE is. NOW, please consider that the word “God” in Hebrew in Gen. 1:1 is “elohim”, a PLURALITY of more than 2. then there’s 1:26 witht he blending of singular and plural, repeated in 11:7 & Mat. 2819. Back to Gen, there’s 18:1-3; 19:24; Num. 6:24-26; Deut. 6: 4,5 (“one being the same word used in Gen :24; “unity” NOT the value of one.)Isa. 6:3, 8; 43:11; 48:16.17; 60:17; 61:1,2; Dan. 2:47; mat. 3:16,17; 17:1-8; Lk 1:35; 9:28-36; Acts10:38; Rom. 15:15-19; 1 Cor. 12:4-6; 2 Cor. 13:14; Gal. 4:6; Eph. 2: 13, 18; 3:16,17; 1 Pet. 1:2; 3:18 1 Jn. 2:4; 4:13,14 & 5:7 (yes, it belongs!) By the way, did you even read the original post, or did you just give a knee-jerk reacion to it?
Miller Isaac
yes you have no scripture for trinity. got it. i read everything and all you can do is like a bind person trying to describe how they see the world, just tell me to irnore some Bible and make new strange ideas like elohim being any different than any other name or title meaning just a name or title that can be used in single or plural but that doesn’t change the bible saying over and over that there’s one God with none beside him. no God beside God literately makes distinct persons or any other name or spirit or made up garbage just that… you can’t have a God or division of God by him seperate from Him any way and still believe in the Bible.
Shane Vanmeter
Miller Isaac
16And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Helper, to be with you forever,
John 14
This clearly shows a distinction between the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. There is no way around it and it shuts down the Oneness position.
Miller Isaac
another role or manesfistation but if this is true there should be the following:
one time where the Bible says it was kidding about all the one and only one verses.
one time it says person referring to God… never happens so you can’t you describe God only the way the Bible does. at least stick to biblical terms and don’t use ones like trinity and person or more than one name that the Bible says the opposite of.
Paul L. King
Miller Isaac You say, “No where does the Bible say Trinity or person,” but you fail to acknowlege the logical fallacy and contradiction of your own statements, for no where does the Bible say role or manifestation. If the Trinity is wrong on the basis of your argument of silence, then your statement is just as wrong as well on the basis that role and manifestaion are not found in Scripture.
Paul L. King
Miller Isaac Troy Day showed you 89 verses for the concept of Trinity. You just refuse to accept them.
Ariel Gripal Antonio
Explain james 2:19 1Timothy 3:16 col.2:9
Miller Isaac
arial if people don’t like something in the bible they will just post a click bait link and have 0 scripture or common sense.
Miller Isaac
listen guys if you’re blind and i’m less blind or whatever… it’s nothing personal. just get more truth and stop trying to believe lies.
Varnel Watson
you still havent responded to neither one single one of the 89 proofs – are you proving that you cant disprove them?
Miller Isaac
Troy Day i did and no one will respond to my hundreds of Bible verses. Trinity arguments are the same grammatical fantasy over and over.
Varnel Watson
Matthew 28:19 “Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost.”
~Jesus Himself
Miller Isaac
Troy Day everyone was baptized in the bible in Jesus name. To just say in the name of…. and not say the name is to repeat the command but to baptize in Jesus name is to obey the commandment.
Steve Maxwell
So God sent himself, was greater than himself, spoke of himself in the third person, did the will of himself but not of himself, prayed to himself, forsook himself and was couldn’t understand why.
Miller Isaac
Steve Maxwell “The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us.” Now you’re getting it !????
Varnel Watson
Steve Maxwell you must admit you sometimes refer to yourself in a third person now dont you 🙂
Steve Maxwell
Troy Day How many times have you sent yourself, returned to your Father’s house or were your own father. If Jesus felt it was important for Christians to see things in the Modalist viewpoint, he sure had a funny way of showing it.
In fact, one of my main sticking points about the insistence that people be baptized in Jesus name or it’s not a legitimate baptism, is the words of Jesus in Matthew 28.
No one was ever a better teacher than Jesus, because he is God and was already living in the future, when 99% of all Christians were being baptized in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Ghost because they wanted to follow the words of Jesus. I don’t believe that Jesus is in Heaven doing a face palm.
Having said that, I’m an economic Trinitarian. My views on the Godhead are not much different than non Modalist Oneness believers.
The three main differences I have is that I believe that Jesus was begotten in eternity, I believe the name Jesus only belongs to Jesus and I believe the legitimacy of water baptism is based on what’s in the heart of the person being baptized.
Miller Isaac
matt 28:19 emphatically tesches one name. He was telling his disciples how to baptize and then go read acts. any examples of them repeating the titles??? nope just over and over in the name of Jesus. ??♂️??♂️??♂️???
Steve Maxwell
Miller Isaac, the point I was making is that 99% of all Christians throughout the ages have used the exact words of Jesus to baptize. Jesus would have known that would happen. The best teacher in history of the world would have explained it better, if it was important.
Miller Isaac
Steve Maxwell need bible examples cuz you seem to be saying the apostles baptized wrongly and the government that killed them and millions of others in the name of tripantheism has figured out what the apostles had wrong.
Steve Maxwell
Miller Isaac, we don’t know exactly what the apostles said when they baptized converts because that was never recorded. All baptisms today are done in the name of Jesus. In every baptism I’ve observed, the name of Jesus was mentioned several times. So therefore it is done in Jesus name.
If you believe that you have to repeat the exact phrase at the perfect time, “I baptize you in the name of Jesus”, then you believe that an incantation saves people. God isn’t as interested in what comes out of the pastor’s mouth, he’s interested in what’s in the convert’s heart.
Miller Isaac
Steve Maxwell what?????? All times in the book of acts and beyond they baptized and said to baptize in Jesus name and if they did it wrong they would have baptized those as in acts 19. You guys can’t read obviously.
Steve Maxwell
Miller Isaac, wrong,
Miller Isaac
Steve Maxwell your just ignoring what you don’t like and adding what you like. You can make a doctrine out of anything that way.
Steve Maxwell
As I said, all baptisms are in the name of Jesus and Jesus said to baptize them in the names of 5he FSHG. Were we not supposed to do what he said. Is Jesus doing a face palm, frustrated that Christians are doing exactly what he said.
Miller Isaac
Steve Maxwell show an example or title baptism or somone saying what’s said doesnt matter or PERSON or any of the garbage you need to add to make tripantheism work…. none. Just adding what you want and ignoring what’s uncomfortable for you.
Miller Isaac
Steve Maxwell NAME not names or titles so his apostles did as he commanded
Miller Isaac
Steve Maxwell just explain triunity without using words that aren’t in the bible or contradictions to scripture. That’s all i ask but then we agree.
Steve Maxwell
Miller Isaac, if Oneness Pentecostals were right, then Jesus would be the author of confusion.
Miller Isaac
Steve Maxwell why are labels so important? Oh yeah because you can’t use bible without contradicting most of it or adding words that would never go in it!
So Jesus is is the author of confusion because he said I am The Lord and beside me there’s no other and you’re smarter than Jesus because you need to add words and take things out?
The government run church after 300 AD siad left handed people were demon possessed and we could buy our way to forgiveness and pray to saints and mary and whatever else mixes well the pagan pantheism with the Chtist image used to control the masses and wage war or burn anyone who didn’t agree with the government run church… America was mainly based on the desire to freely worship non government controlled gods. If you want to believe in tripantheism or call Jesus another person when he or his people never called him anything but the 1 God named Jesus… then okay that’s your right but just know doing so is as much contradictory to scripture as left handed people are the devil or any other of the several doctrines invented by the mass controlling dark ages church. ?????
Steve Maxwell
You need to learn a little more about the council at Nicea in 325, before you go commenting on it. It was not called to create the Trinity. It was called to protect the deity of Jesus from the Arianism. As a matter of fact your hero, Sabbeleous was there in support of the effort.
BTW, there is absolutely no evidence that Oneness Christians existed in any numbers, until that last century. Where were you all of those years?
Miller Isaac
Steve Maxwell seriously???? We got burned at the stake literally every time to publicly let the trurh be known. Even isaac newton believed in one Jesus and not the trinity but had to keep his beliefs secret til the end or be killed….
No one ever thougth of God as trione or trinity or tripantheism until 325 AD and it was modified 431 AD. Please get straight where your false doctrine comes from. If its not from the Bible then fine learn from fairy tales and pray to mary and keep your bible contradictory pantheism away from the Word or just admit you only like the Bibke when it says what you want and have 0.00000000 scripture for trinity or God the persom or any other name or more than one spirit.
Steve Maxwell
Miller Isaac The Catholic church came into being, between 325 and 431. They started going off of the rails. However, aside from Calvin burning Sabelleous, you guys are nowhere to be found.
Miller Isaac
Steve Maxwell there was always those who believed in Jesus and not the trinity and for over 1000 years we were put to death as soon as we spoke the words publicly.
Steve Maxwell
That’s what you say, but there is absolutely no history of them. For 1700 years all those people went to hell, because of the preacher not repeating the right words.
Steve Maxwell
Sarcasm ^^^
Miller Isaac
Steve Maxwell why is group think and group identity so important???? We’re all for thousands of years just people trying ro make it out of this life with our lives and you want to make war over who won’t take your false doctrine.
Miller Isaac
Steve Maxwell omg do you really not know how history works?
BEING BURNER TO DEATH IS BEING IN HISTORY AND WE WERE FOR OVER 1000 YEARS. PLEASE LEARN TO READ.
Miller Isaac
Stephen Suba
My friend I am not a Facebook theologian, I am real life Jesus worshipping warrior I preach One True Living God, who revealed His name to Saul on the road to Damascus. I preach Jesus, cast out demons and heal the sick in the same name. If you like to be delivered let me know I will pray over you and u will feel and experience the rest. I don’t preach until I manifest the power of Jesus i walk in. God bless you and set Free everyone who is under the influence of the spirit of nicolaitans.
David Sloan
If you believe in trinity you under stand schizophrenia and multiple personality disorders more than you understand the Bible.
Miller Isaac
maybe but more simply if you believe the trinity you just think the Bible is a cute story book.
Jeremy Rice
God is one ☝️ like there’s water ? gas. Ice . The son of God is in a human type body but in heaven . Beside the father who is God almighty . Why Jesus said no man knows the hour or day that Jesus will return only the Father . He is like a huge man but he is a spirit . The Holy Spirit is Gods Spirit here on earth .They are 3 different persons but they are the same . They are all God . Once you know the Holy Spirit as a person he will reveal to you Jesus and the Father . The holy trinity is all through the Bible . It’s not hard to understand . The spirit will help you understand that’s why he’s called the helper . Jesus said I will send you another comforter. To be with you forever . He came on the day of Pentecost . He also came and anointed Jesus when he was being babtised by John the babtist . Study ? the word as for the Holy Spirit to reveal the mystery to you . And what you need to know . But first ask Jesus to save you come I. Your heart ♥️. They are the same . All 3 in 1. Peace ✌️ and love ❤️ people
Miller Isaac
Jeremy Rice you have to add to the bible and take away several verses or just admit the trinity is a fairy tale at best.
Jeremy Rice
It’s all there in the word . But it took a 40 day fast ?. And asking for revelation knowledge to understand it . Trying to understand the Bible or the things of God in your natural mind gets you nowhere . When John wrote revelation do you think he took away and added to it to write revelation. It came from rhema word of God . Living word . God is a living God . He speaks to the spirit . The written word is the libros . Most people want to break it down and understand it in the mind . Or with their brain ?. That’s not how it’s done ✅. It’s done in the spirit realm . So the Holy Spirit speaks to your spirit . It can be confusing and at one time it was to me as well . But God broke it down to me . So I could understand it . Like any scripture. I wait to hear from God on it . And the Holy Spirit. Reveals it to me . I leArned to cut out my mind and brain ? from trying to interpret scripture. And if God speaks I hear him . It’s a still small voice in my spirit .
Jeremy Rice
It’s no fairytale it’s real . More reAl than anything. And when we die our spirit will leave our body go to two different places heaven or hell . No matter how much theology you have . So make sure your relationship with God is real . Peace ✌️ and love ❤️
Isara Mo
David Sloan
A lot of Christians must be schizophrenic then
Miller Isaac
it’s just more imaginary grammar fantasies with no other name or word or spirit.
you can’t say persons or more than one name and the bible still be true.
by that logic you can insert anything into scripture.
Miller Isaac
you literally need to omit this from the Bible for the trinity to work.
Thangsan Hisfootstep
Stephen Suba so then what do these people say “Trinity” is? You seemed missed the point here in Trinity. God is One who is self-revealed in three persons. So trinity doesn’t mean three Gods (x). Here again, God is ONE but self-revealed to men in three persons. For God who is all powerful to reveal Himself in three persons might not be a difficult stuff. He still can choose to reveal Himself in more than three if needed. However, the Bible teaches revealed in three persons only (period).
Varnel Watson
SO Stephen Suba
when you wrote
Perfect man in flesh was praying to His Godhead.
did you mean Jesus was praying to His own head since He is God or that He was praying to His Father in Heaven?
Miller Isaac
Troy Day why can people talk to themselves but not God?
Varnel Watson
Miller Isaac wouldnt you say if you are honest indeed that oneness is just another non-biblical heresy since the BIBLE JESUS Himself in our own KJV commands us to baptize them in the name of the Father, Son and the Holy Ghost? Do you believe the BIBLE says that? So if JESUS Himself says to baptize them in the name of the Father, Son and the Holy Ghost surely he doesnt mean Jesus-only
Miller Isaac
Troy Day seriously you never read the book of acts at all. Go look at all the examples of baptism please… find one where they repeat the comand rather than obey with the name of the 1 and only God.
Varnel Watson
Miller Isaac have you ever read Matthew 28:19 “Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost.” ~Jesus Christ on the Trinity
Miller Isaac
Troy Day there are 0.0000 versus of the Bible that use the term person to describe God or anything about him or his roles or anything. Why do you want to contradict scripture so much?
Miller Isaac
Wow wow wow seriously???? This is sad now? Jesus was baptized by John unto repentance and what is the name of the father? What is the name of the spitit? All Jesus…. ? you really beved read the bible before or??
Varnel Watson
Matthew 28:19 “Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost.” ~Jesus Christ on the Trinity
Miller Isaac
Troy Day i like how you just add stuff to the bible to make it whatever you want. Father son and spirit are roles or relationships like we all have but there’s only one name. Show me one verse where they actually baptized saying father son and spirit. the apostles knew that makes no sense. It’s like if you pay your rent and sign it father son and guy with a spirit. The land lord or bank will say okay your those 3 or more things but we need your name printed and signed for the comandment to be valid and not only repeated.
Varnel Watson
Miller Isaac are you denying the KJV Bible says this?
Matthew 28:19 “Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost.
Miller Isaac
i love how you keep repeating that there’s one name for the 3 roles and only one way they baptized in the bible ♥️♥️♥️♥️♥️♥️
Miller Isaac
Obviously there is 0 scripture for the trinity… okay cool glad everyone can see not only that but if there were then many verses would have to be taken out or just find out why the Bible would be full of contradictions.
So name one need or advantage for trinity rather than just obeying the word that says one name and spitit?,
Just one? Any?
Jeremy Rice
It doesn’t matter . When you have God with you Now is it Jesus . Or the Holy Spirit.Jesus is A person .seated at the right hand of God almighty.God is omnipresent so he is everywhere . We are talking about the same thing . God is God . If he is Holy and righteous and all powerful and loves you it’s God . So we are seeing the same thing I can just see it different becUse I asked God to reveal himself to me .And this is the way I see it . Many see it my way .some have the same argument . As you do . But we are seeking and loving the same God .he is one ☝️.. somehow in three persons .The Holy Spirit is not a force or power he is a person . So ask him to reveal himself to you as a person . He is fully God . Jesus is fully God and so is the father .only difference is the ministry .the wAy God operAtes but yes they are exactly the same person . All God .brother you are right .
Miller Isaac
Jeremy Rice God is an omnipresent spirit with no right or left. The right hand is a place of power for the fullness of the Godhead. If the father is a separate person what’s his name? What’s the spirits name?
Miller Isaac
Jeremy Rice oh yeah the bible doesn’t matter according to you lol
Jeremy Rice
No I didn’t say he wasn’t one . The Holy Spirit comes out from God . They are all the same .his name is God . If you are talking about Jesus the father or the Holy Spirit. It is God . Name is yhwh means he who was he who is and he who will be . I am .
Miller Isaac
Jeremy Rice Especially due to the existence of the Mesha Stele, the Jahwist tradition found in Exod. 3:15, and ancient Hebrew and Greek texts, biblical scholars widely hold that the tetragrammaton and other names of God were spoken by the ancient Israelites and their neighbours.[110][111][112]:40
Some time after the destruction of Solomon’s Temple, the spoken use of God’s name as it was written ceased among the people, even though knowledge of the pronunciation was perpetuated in rabbinic schools.[24] The Talmud relays this occurred after the death of Simeon the Just (either Simon I or his great-great-grandson Simon II).[113] Philo calls it ineffable, and says that it is lawful for those only whose ears and tongues are purified by wisdom to hear and utter it in a holy place (that is, for priests in the Temple). In another passage, commenting on Lev. xxiv. 15 seq.: “If any one, I do not say should blaspheme against the Lord of men and gods, but should even dare to utter his name unseasonably, let him expect the penalty of death.”[24]
Rabbinic sources suggest that the name of God was pronounced only once a year, by the high priest, on the Day of Atonement.[114] Others, including Maimonides,[115] claim that the name was pronounced daily in the liturgy of the Temple in the priestly benediction of worshippers (Num. vi. 27), after the daily sacrifice; in the synagogues, though, a substitute (probably “Adonai”) was used.[24] According to the Talmud, in the last generations before the fall of Jerusalem, the name was pronounced in a low tone so that the sounds were lost in the chant of the priests.[24] Since the destruction of Second Temple of Jerusalem in 70 CE, the tetragrammaton has no longer been pronounced in the liturgy. However the pronunciation was still known in Babylonia in the latter part of the 4th century.[24]
Spoken prohibitions
Edit
The vehemence with which the utterance of the name is denounced in the Mishnah suggests that use of Yahweh was unacceptable in rabbinical Judaism. “He who pronounces the Name with its own letters has no part in the world to come!”[24] Such is the prohibition of pronouncing the Name as written that it is sometimes called the “Ineffable”, “Unutterable”, or “Distinctive Name”.[116][117][118]
Halakha prescribes that whereas the Name written “yodh he waw he”, it is only to be pronounced “Adonai”; and the latter name too is regarded as a holy name, and is only to be pronounced in prayer.[119][120] Thus when someone wants to refer in third person to either the written or spoken Name, the term HaShem “the Name” is used;[121][122] and this handle itself can also be used in prayer.[123] The Masoretes added vowel points (niqqud) and cantillation marks to the manuscripts to indicate vowel usage and for use in ritual chanting of readings from the Bible in Jewish prayer in synagogues. To יהוה they added the vowels for “Adonai” (“My Lord”), the word to use when the text was read. While “HaShem” is the most common way to reference “the Name”, the terms “HaMaqom” (lit. “The Place”, i.e. “The Omnipresent”) and “Raḥmana” (Aramaic, “Merciful”) are used in the mishna and gemara, still used in the phrases “HaMaqom y’naḥem ethḥem” (“may The Omnipresent console you”), the traditional phrase used in sitting Shiva and “Raḥmana l’tzlan” (“may the Merciful save us” i.e. “God forbid”).
Written prohibitions
Edit
The written tetragrammaton,[124] as well as six other names of God, must be treated with special sanctity. They cannot be disposed of regularly, lest they be desecrated, but are usually put in long term storage or buried in Jewish cemeteries in order to retire them from use.[125] Similarly, writing the tetragrammaton (or these other names) unnecessarily is prohibited, so as to avoid having them treated disrespectfully, an action that is forbidden. To guard the sanctity of the Name, sometimes a letter is substituted by a different letter in writing (e.g. יקוק), or the letters are separated by one or more hyphens, a practice applied also to the English name “God”, which Jews commonly write as “G-d”.[126][127] Most Jewish authorities say that this practice is not obligatory for the English name.[128]
Jeremy Rice
Wow ?. I could hardley keep up with all that knowledge. Amazing ? thanks ?
Miller Isaac
JHVH Literally in a non name because I am was the closest thing to a name of the old testament. The news believed as seen above you could not speak or write the closest thing they had to a name for God so they wrote JHVH and that’s literally nothing because a name was not given til Jesus came and said i am then of course that led to his crusifiction.
If you are saying JHVH is the name of the father that directly contradicts literally the whole Bible.
Miller Isaac
Jeremy Rice its called googling what junk you try to add to the Bible. And i found your triunicorn god. ???
Jeremy Rice
I don’t think he’s a unicorn ?. I actually was taken out of my body and taken to heaven . Sat in Gods lap and was spoken to . Many are called few are chosen . I know him very well for 20 plus years and minister winning as many souls as I can . So I don’t have time to argue theology . If you believe Jesus is the son of God and came to save us from our sins . Died on a rugged cross . Was buried in a borrowed tomb . Rise again on the third day and have been born again we are family . No sense in arguing theology . We will understand perfect when we get to heaven . For now . We win all the lost we can .God bless ♥️
Miller Isaac
Jeremy Rice okay keep comfuing people. God bless!
Jeremy Rice
Miller Isaac I said yhwh. Yahweh we pronounce it . It’s ya va ye . In Hebrew .means he who was he who is and he who will be . Sacred name of God when Moses asked what his name was he said I am . Anycase . He is God . The creator and the savior and the judge . God . There is only one ☝️.
Miller Isaac
Jeremy Rice please research your trash
Jeremy Rice
Miller Isaac I’ll pray for you . You are arguing about the Bible in a Over the trinity that 99.9 per cent of believers believe in the father the son the Holy Spirit. In the Bible all through it . Seems if the others on here had a problem with you as well . It’s ok ?. God loves you . He will help you if you will let him .
Jeremy Rice
Miller Isaac I agree in one God and I know him well . And Iv studied for 24 years . I’m a minister like the rest of us on here . Let there be peace ✌️ and no division. The church ⛪ has to be in unity . That’s the problem with so many different denominations. Because differences in theology. We have to be in unity . Do I believe there are 3 different Gods no . Do I believe in the deity of Christ yes . And I believe in one God we all do . I got saved watching Tbn the biggest Christian network in the world . Called Trinity broadcasting network . I was called to preach at 7 years old in a babtist church ⛪. Was raised babtist and then Into full gospel Pentecostal Church .Then I went to Trinity Chapel Church of God . Then on to Lee University Bible college. I had a class on the person of the Holy Spirit. And I studied Old and New Testament. Your argument is over the trinity . I will always believe in the trinity because the Bible says so . And Iv personally experienced each person through the ministry of the Holy Spirit . Jesus is my lord and savior . They are three in one ..Like others said . Go preach baptizing them in the name of the father the son and the Holy Spirit case closed . You are confused . I pray God reveals this to you . I don’t know how you could miss it . And why you argue about it . It’s basic theology . And there’s definitely an error in your theology . But it doesn’t matter . We all disagree on different points . Iv heard people bashing the trinity before . The Holy Spirit would never bash himself of the word of God so I don’t see your point and others on here don’t either . I will pray about it for you to have peace ✌️. There is someting fighting against unity and it’s not God . It’s the enemy that brings confusion and strife . This is the last time I will get into one of these discussions because some people never learn they want to argue scripture . We are at the end of time and people want to argue . The point is put differences aside and win this world ? for Jesus and let’s go home to heaven . ♥️
Miller Isaac
Congrats
Varnel Watson
Miller Isaac what about THIS scripture FOR the TRINITY? Are you denying Jesus ever said this:
Matthew 28:19 “Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost.
Miller Isaac
this is seriously the worst trinity verse… it says NAME and then read acts they baptized in the name never the titles. blind leading the blind man ???
Varnel Watson
AJ Gambhir when you wrote
Omnipresence shows how Jesus being God was on Earth n still in Heaven and His presence can be felt everywhere. It’s a good example of Omnipresence in that Baptism event
I hope you understand how your statement denied Jesus coming in flesh on earth in a physical body. John in his epistle has a special term word for the ones who deny Jesus came in flesh Look it up
Miller Isaac
jesus body was made and born not came. the word became flesh. you’re literally just making up bible that’s not there now. ???
Jevan Little
The Son was praying to the Father, because He was genuinely human with a human mind.
Jevan Little
Steve Maxwell God Himself? Did God Himself send someone other than God? Is God a He or a Them?
Jevan Little
The Son was praying to the Father, because He was genuinely human with a human mind.
Steve Maxwell
He sent his begotten Son, who is still serving as our advocate with the Father. Advocate infers at least three participants.
Varnel Watson
not to mention the 12 peers in some cases
Miller Isaac
you literally have to white out half the bible to make your logic work even in a fantasy world. ???
Varnel Watson
SO NO answer to ANY of the 89 proofs
Just general oneness talk
Miller Isaac
there’s 0 proofs. it’s the same grammar skewing into triunicorns over and over ???
Steve Maxwell
Troy Day, the discussion of the Godhead is one of my favorite subjects. It’s complex, deep and entrenched. There are several proofs on each side of the issue.
I try to keep an open mind about it and think more deeply about God. Having said that, I don’t believe we really know perfectly, with the info we are given and it’s not a salvation issue.
Varnel Watson
Steve Maxwell as long as God didnt pray to his head you are in the goods hands of the Holy Ghost
Miller Isaac
Jesus was full God and fully human at the same time. in his human form he was limited by his senses and human body and mind like us or he wouldn’t be human. he needed to pray as an example. we now have a much better understanding of how to grow as people through self talk and work with our hands to access the subconscious but to say there’s another person or God or spirit or name would just invalid scripture completely.
Paul L. King
Miller Isaac You keep on saying we are “grammar skewing” or “grammar inventing”, but you have not cited 1 single case of how we skew or invent the Greek or Hebrew grammar. Nor have you answered my question as to how much Greek or Hebrew you have studied to qualify you to make that claim. Your statements lead me to believe that you have studied 0 Greek grammar and 0 Hebrew grammar. If that is so, it disqualifies you to claim we are skewing or reinventing grammar. We are not. Further, I would ask very simply, how much English grammar have you studied? Have you had college level English grammar, advanced college level English grammar, graduate level English grammar, doctoral level English grammar, or post-doctoral level English grammar? And then exactly what grammar are we skewing? Nouns, verbs, pronominals, prepositions, sentence syntax? You don’t seem to understand basic Hebrew and Greek grammar of the Hebrew and Greek words for “name,” because you keep mis-defining them as “titles” rather than what they mean, which is character, reputation, essence, authority. Nor do you seem to understand the grammatical use of the word “one,” which you use so frequently but understand its use so poorly. The essence of God is one. Trinitarians fully understand this, and agree and are glad that we can agree on this one point together with oneness folk. We do not believe in 3 Gods, no matter how much you try to say we do, but we believe only in one God. But as I stated in an earlier post, Scripture defines our one God as multi-dimensional, manifold (Col 3:10). There is no contradiction in a manifold God who is one. The term “manifold” in Scripture makes it clear that God can be one and many at the same time. Maybe not in human reasoning, but in God’s reasoning that transcends human reasoning–yes. God says, “My thoughts are higher than your thoughts and My ways higher than your ways.” Think higher, think God’s ways, I pray.
Miller Isaac
guys by your logic there’s dozens of Gods, names and believe whatever makes you feel good ???????????????????????
Varnel Watson
one God – 3 persons – stated plainly in the BIBLE
Miller Isaac
Troy Day in your imaginary Bible
Varnel Watson
Miller Isaac Matthew 28:19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit
Miller Isaac
Troy Day that says 1 name and 3 roles of one spitit. Do you read the bible or just smash the keyboard all day?
Varnel Watson
nope – there are distinct ANDs to show you which names are meant and NOwhere it says ROLES – you are imputing your corrupt doctrine in the BIBLE – but the BIBLE never says roles
The doctrine of the Trinity can be clearly seen, being understood by the visible things that are made, even to His eternal power and Godhead (Rom. 1:20). What on earth was created in the image and likeness of God? Man (Gen. 1:26-28). Do God’s image and likeness consist only of moral and spiritual powers? If so, it can be concluded that man is only a moral and spiritual being. Is God bodiless? If so, we can conclude that man is also bodiless.
Miller Isaac
The word person never refers to God in any way. You just insert whatever you feel like ???
Varnel Watson
What are you talking about? Where do you see roles or which names here?
Matthew 28:19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit
Are you now imagining things in the BIBLE?
Miller Isaac
Troy Day is father a name? Is son a name? Is spirt a name? THE has 1 name just like matt 28:19 says.
Varnel Watson
Miller Isaac matt 28:19 never says that – only in your head maybe; you should learn some basic Greek conjunctions before making such absurd claims. These are not just titles – these are persons who have names The Bible names the Father the Son and the Holy Ghost with different names 🙂
Miller Isaac
Troy Day really??????????
Oh noooooo everyone in acts must have screwed up. Ugh what bad apostles. Ge wiz mister your smarter than all the apostles because they forgot thr titles and only obeyed by baptizing in Jesus name.
Varnel Watson
hey Miller Light how do you read this? Where does it say WHICH name and where does it say ROLES?
Matthew 28:19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit
Miller Isaac
Troy Day
Varnel Watson
Miller Isaac I notice you are failing again to explain the words of JESUS in Matthew 28:19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit
Miller Isaac
Troy Day dude stop proving one name with 28:19
Varnel Watson
Miller Isaac which name does Matthew 28:19 say? Of the father?
Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit
Seems like you simply dont know anymore Doesnt it?
Jeremy Rice
The holy trinity . ?
Miller Isaac
Jeremy Rice lol show me where it says person? Trinity? Or where anyone in the bible baptized in the titles.
Varnel Watson
Miller Isaac are you denying the Holy Ghost is a person? If so you are denying you are a person too
Jeremy Rice
Troy Day said it Matthew 28 19.
Varnel Watson
go tell Miller Light and Michael Hazlewood
Jeremy Rice
Gods light ? exposes darkness . And era and discrinment of spirits . Where the spirit of the Lord is there is liberty and freedom.
Varnel Watson
Jeremy Rice 89 solid BIBLICAL proofs and all Miller Isaac can do is twist the BIBLE – how so I dont get it?
Jeremy Rice
Troy Day must be an evil spirit . A religious spirit . I don’t know it keeps attacking and the Holy Spirit doesn’t attack like this a religious spirit does. Iv had people argue the Bible with me before Jehovah’s Witness and church of Christ wanted to keep talking about being babtised and if I didn’t I was going to hell and I said I had been babtised . I had got out of church at mt Paron church of God and went to mall to eat and got attacked by three guys with the Jesus on their shirt . Iv had all kinds of religious spirits attack me when the annointing is present the spirits manifest and want to argue the word of God but twist it . The devil used the word against Jesus on his 40 day fast . So it’s just what happens . Oh well there’s no arguing with a spirit you just cast it out . Be gone Satan in Jesus name . Every religious spirit . I silence u hush ? go into the pit Now in Jesus mighty name .
David Sloan
Troy Day what is the ‘name’ of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost?
Varnel Watson
you tell us David Sloan I just quoted Matthew 28:19
Miller Isaac
Troy Day can you do anything but cut and insert trithiesim into where it can’t go??????
Varnel Watson
Hey Miller Isaac and Michael Hazlewood yalls heresy is SO easily disproved JUST by looking in the BIBLE which addresses the Holy Spirit as a PERSON not merely a title or a thing
The Greek word ἐκεῖνος (ekeinos) is applied to the Holy Spirit several times (John 14:26, 15:26, 16:8, 13, 14) and is a masculine personal pronoun; literally ‘He’ or ‘that one.’ Around 96% of time it refers to persons / individuals. For example in John 1:18 (the Son), 5:37 (the Father), 5:46 (Moses), the blind man who was healed (9:11), people who truly love Jesus (14:21) and many more. Mt. 27:8 and John 12:48 seem to be the only exceptions to this rule. This is due to agros (field) and logos (word) being both masculine nouns and therefore accompanied by the masculine, ekeinos.
What’s also interesting is the fact that pneuma (Spirit) is neuter in the Greek and yet John chooses to call the Spirit ekeinos instead of its neuter equivalent ekeino (e.g. Mt. 24:43). Yet in John 16, ‘to pneuma’ (v.13) is so much closer to ekeinos than the masculine parakleetos in v.7 and in John 14:26 and 15:26 ‘to pneuma tees aleetheias’ (the Spirit of Truth) is the closest antecedent to ekeinos rather than parakleetos. Seemingly John is deliberately emphasizing the distinct personality of the Spirit
Proofs that Jesus Is Not the Father:
21. The Father was in heaven all the time that Jesus was on earth (Mt. 5:16,48).
22. Christ now sits at the right hand of the Father (see note 9, above).
23. Jesus said He would confess men “before My Father,” proving He is not the Father (Mt. 10:32; Rev. 3:5).
24. Jesus always prayed to the Father as a separate Person (Mt. 11:25; Jn. 17).
Miller Isaac
it’s like a blind person telling me i’m blind. surrrre buddy
Varnel Watson
hey I just quoted you the Bible over 10 times – same verse with absolutely no response from you #noughsaid
Miller Isaac
it’s the same grammar mess i responded to for hours.
Ephesians 4:5-6 King James Version (KJV)
5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.
Miller Isaac
stop calling God persons if he won’t use the word for himself ever.
Jevan Little
Ekeinos is applied to the masculine noun parakletos, not the neuter noun pneuma.
In Greek grammar nouns and pronouns agree in case, number and gender..
Church is called a she or her. Church is not a female person
Miller Isaac
Troy Day
Miller Isaac
??? be a good boy and all 3 santas will bring you a new bike ?
Miller Isaac
i mean a tricycle ???
Miller Isaac
a tricycle is 3 bikes for all 3 of each of us ???
Varnel Watson
yes Miller Light better than ridding the theological unicycle like some clowns from the circus
Miller Isaac
Troy Day burning bibles? Makes sense for you not me.
Varnel Watson
2. Names of God prove plurality of persons.(Gen. 3:5; Ex. 22:28; 1Sam. 4:8; Dan. 2:11; 4:6-9; 5:11,14; etc.).
3. Plural pronouns are used of God, proving plurality of persons (Gen. 1:26; 3:22; 11:7; Isa. 6:8; Jn. 14:23; 17:11,22-23).
4. First, second, and third personal pronouns are used hundreds of times in Scripture, referring to one, two, and three persons of the Godhead in the same sense they are used of men. Sometimes the different members of the Deity use them to and of one another in the same sense man uses them. In Jn. 17 alone Jesus uses them 162 Times in speaking to and of His Father (cp. Jn. 14:16-17,26; 15:26; 16:7-15). Sometimes singular pronouns are used of the whole Godhead of three members as a unity (Ex. 20:3; Isa. 44:6,8; 45:5,21; 46:9; Hos. 13:4), just like the whole church as a unit is spoken of as a man and “he” (Eph. 2:14-15; 4:13; 5:25-27; 2Th. 2:7-8).
5. “Man is become as one of us” proves plurality of persons (Gen. 3:22).
Miller Isaac
Troy Day The Bible says that God is coming back with all his saints (Zechariah 14:5) and also that Jesus is coming back with all his saints (1 Thessalonians 3:13). Are two coming back? No. Only one is coming back–our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ. Titus 2:13.
Miller Isaac
Troy Day all you can do is make up grammar confusion to try to explain whatever you want into being and have to ignore most of the bible.
Miller Isaac
Troy Day is this a cut and paste war to death by old age? All you do is cut and paste and ignore most of the Bible and everything i say ???
Miller Isaac
Troy Day please read your false doctrine before you post it. John 14:9 King James Version (KJV)
9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Show us the Father?”” I and the Father are one.” Your click bait trash is just making up lies that would make Jesus a lair if they were true.
Varnel Watson
I see you said a LOT but NO Bible to disproof what I said above just general talk about some heresy of yours
Miller Isaac
Ephesians 4:5-6 King James Version (KJV)
5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.
Miller Isaac
It never says person or more than one name or spirit. Just 1 God 1 spirit and 1 name doing multiple things like anyONE else.
Paul L. King
Miller Isaac, an argument from silence is a weak argument without other evidences. So 1 God, 1 Spirit, 1 name talking to Himself; raising Himself from the dead, etc.?
Miller Isaac
Paul L. King exactly! Thank you for your help!
Is the word trinity in the Bible? No.
Does the Bible say that there are three persons in the Godhead? No.
Does the Bible speak of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost? Yes.
Do these titles as used in Matthew 28:19 mean that there are three separate and distinct persons in the Godhead? No, they refer to three offices, roles, or relationship to humanity.
Does the Bible use the word three in reference to God? Only one verse in the entire Bible does so-1 John 5:7. It speaks of the Father, the Word (instead of Son), and the Holy Ghost, and it concludes by saying, “These three are one.”
Does the Bible use the word one in reference to God? Yes, many times. For example, see Zechariah 14:9; Malachi 2:10; Matthew 23:9; Mark 12:29, 32; John 8:41; 10:30; Romans 3:30; 1 Corinthians 8:4; Galatians 3:20; 1 Timothy 2:5; James 2:19.
Can the mystery of the Godhead be understood? Yes. Romans 1:20; Colossians 2:9; 1 Timothy 3:16.
Has the Christian only one Heavenly Father? Yes. Matthew 23:9.
Then why did Jesus say to Philip, “He that hath seen me hath seen the Father” (John 14:39)?Because Jesus is the express image of God’s person. Hebrews 1:3. The Greek word forpersonin this verse literally means “substance.”
Does the Bible say that there are two persons in the Godhead? No.
Does the Bible say that all the Godhead is revealed in one person? Yes, in Jesus Christ. 2 Corinthians 4:4; Colossians 1:19; 2:9; Hebrews 1:3.
Is the mystery of the Deity hidden from some people? Yes. Luke 10:21-22.
Who is the Father? The Father is the one God, particularly as revealed in parental relationship to humanity. Deuteronomy 32:6; Malachi 2:10.
Where was God the Father while Jesus was on earth? The Father was in Christ. John 14:10; 2 Corinthians 5:19. He was also in heaven, for God is omnipresent.
Did the prophet Isaiah say that Jesus would be the Father? Yes. Isaiah 9:6; 63:16.
When God said, “Let us make man in our image” (Genesis 1:26), was He speaking to another person in the Godhead? No. Isaiah 44:24; Malachi 2:10.
How many of God’s qualities were in Christ? All. Colossians 2:9.
How may we see the God who sent Jesus into the world? By seeing Jesus. John 12:44-45; 14:9.
Does the Bible say that Jesus is the Almighty? Yes. Revelation 1:8
Whom do some designate as the first person in the trinity? God the Father.
Whom do some designate as the last person in the trinity? The Holy Ghost. But Jesus said that He was the first and last. Revelation 1:17-18
How many persons did John see sitting on the throne in heaven? One. Revelation 4:2.
If Jesus is the first and the last, why did God say in Isaiah 44:6 that He was the first and the last? Because Jesus is the God of the Old Testament incarnate.
Did Jesus tell Satan that God alone should be worshipped? Yes. Matthew 4:10
Does the devil believe in more than one God? No. James 2:19.
Does the Bible say that God, who is the Word, was made flesh? Yes John 1:1, 14.
For what purpose was God manifested in the flesh? To save sinners. Hebrews 2:9, 14.
Was Jesus God manifested in the flesh? Yes. 1 Timothy 3:16.
Could Jesus have been on earth and in heaven at the same time? Yes. John 3:13.
Does the Bible say that there is but one Lord? Yes. Isaiah 45:18; Ephesians 4:5.
Does the Bible say that Christ is the Lord? Yes. Luke 2:11.
Does the Bible say that the Lord is God? Yes. I kings 18:39; Zechariah 14:5; Acts 2:39; Revelation 19:1.
How could the church belong to Jesus (Matthew 16:18) and yet be the church of God (1 Corinthians 10:32)? Because Jesus is God in the flesh.
Will God give His glory to another? No. Isaiah 42:8.
Was there a God formed before Jehovah, or will there be one formed after? No. Isaiah 43:10.
What is one thing that God does not know? Another God. Isaiah 44:8.
What is one thing that God Cannot do? Lie. Titus 1:2.
How many Gods should we know? Only one. Hosea 13:4.
How many names has the Lord? One. Zechariah 14:9.
Is it good to think upon the name of the Lord? Yes. Malachi 3:16.
Does the Bible say that God alone treads upon the waves of the sea? Yes. Job 9:8
Why, then, was Jesus able to walk upon the Sea of Galilee (Matthew 14:25)? Because He is God the Creator. Colossians 1:16.
Is God the only one who can forgive sin? Yes. Isiah 43:25; Mark 2:7.
Why, then, could Jesus forgive sin in Mark 2:5-11? Because He is God the Savior.
Is Jesus the true God? Yes. 1 John 5:20.
If God and the Holy Ghost are two separate persons, which was the Father of Christ?Matthew 1:20 says that the Holy Ghost was the Father, while Romans 15:6, 2 Corinthians 11:31, and Ephesians 1:3 say that God was the Father. There is no contradiction when we realize that God the Father and the Holy Ghost are one and the same Spirit. Matthew 10:20; Ephesians 4:4; 1 Corinthians 3:16.
When Paul asked the Lord who He was, what was the answer? “I am Jesus.” Acts 9:5.
When Stephen was dying, did he call God Jesus? Yes. Acts 7:59.
Did Thomas ever call Jesus God? Yes. John 20:28.
How could Jesus be the Savior, when God the Father said in Isaiah 43:11, “Beside me there is no Savior?” Because “God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself.” 2 Corinthians 5:19.
Does the Bible say that Jesus was God with us? Yes. Matthew 1:23.
Did Jesus ever say, “I and my Father are one?” Yes. John 10:30.
Can it be proved scripturally that Jesus and the Father are one in the same sense that husband and wife are one? No. The Godhead was never compared to the relationship of a husband and wife. Jesus identified Himself with the Father in a way that husband and wife cannot be identified with each other. John 14:9-11.
Does the Bible say that there is only one wise God? Yes. Jude 25.
Does the Bible call the Holy Ghost a second or third person in the Godhead? No. The Holy Ghost is the one Spirit of God, the one God Himself at work in our lives. John 4:24; 1 Corinthians 3:16-17; 6:19; 12:13.
Can Trinitarians show that three divine persons were present when Jesus was baptized by John? Absolutely not. The one, omnipresent God used three simultaneous manifestations. Only one divine person was present–Jesus Christ the Lord.
Then what were the other two of whom Trinitarians speak? One was a voice from heaven; the other was the Spirit of God in the form of a dove. Matthew 3:16-17.
What did the voice say at Jesus’ baptism? “Thou art my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.” Mark 1:11. As the Son of God, Jesus was the one God incarnate.
Does the Bible say that God shed His blood and that God laid down His life for us? Yes. Acts 20:28; 1 John 3:16. God was able to do this because He had taken upon Himself a human body.
The Bible says that God is coming back with all his saints (Zechariah 14:5) and also that Jesus is coming back with all his saints (1 Thessalonians 3:13). Are two coming back? No. Only one is coming back–our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ. Titus 2:13.
Miller Isaac
Paul L. King Has the Christian only one Heavenly Father? Yes. Matthew 23:9.
Then why did Jesus say to Philip, “He that hath seen me hath seen the Father” (John 14:39)?Because Jesus is the express image of God’s person. Hebrews 1:3. The Greek word for personin this verse literally means “substance.”
Miller Isaac
Paul L. King How many persons did John see sitting on the throne in heaven? One. Revelation 4:2.
Miller Isaac
Does the devil believe in more than one God? No. James 2:19.
Miller Isaac
Paul L. King When Paul asked the Lord who He was, what was the answer? “I am Jesus.” Acts 9:5.
You know how he was saying LORD
Miller Isaac
“I and my Father are one?” Yes. John 10:30.
Doesn’t say 2 or 3 or anything but 1
Miller Isaac
Paul L. King Can it be proved scripturally that Jesus and the Father are one in the same sense that husband and wife are one? No. The Godhead was never compared to the relationship of a husband and wife. Jesus identified Himself with the Father in a way that husband and wife cannot be identified with each other. John 14:9-11.
Miller Isaac
Paul L. King Does the Bible call the Holy Ghost a second or third person in the Godhead? No. The Holy Ghost is the one Spirit of God, the one God Himself at work in our lives. John 4:24; 1 Corinthians 3:16-17; 6:19; 12:13.
Miller Isaac
Paul L. King no one has ANYTHING but imaginary grammar skewering into imagery mythical symbols ???
Miller Isaac
Paul L. King adam to John we have hundreds of people who knew God in scripture on a very close intimate level and had his word penned for us and made 0 references to more than 1 name or spirit of God. The idea of more than one or triunity was nowhere near the mind of anyone in the Bible. It didn’t even exist anywhere til hindreds of years after after the apostles. It was only after the book of acts church was murdered and replaced with a counterfeit government run chuch that anyone had any idea of anything triunity at all. This idea is completely man mad for nothing but confusion and an excuse to burn people who know who Jesus is and to wage war in the name of the trinity not Jesus. Even isaac mewton had to keep his oneness theology secret until the end of his life of he would have been burned alive. Trinity is not in the bible. Any 5 year old can tell you that.
Paul L. King
Miller Isaac are the words “one person” in the Bible? NO! Is the word “Role” in the Bible? NO! Is the word “manifestation” referring to God Himself in the Bible? NO! You prove nothing.
Paul L. King
Miller Isaac You said, “Jesus is the express image of God’s person. Hebrews 1:3. The Greek word for person in this verse literally means “substance.” The KJV uses the “person,” but this is a mistranslation of the Greek term “hypostasis,” as you point out the real meaning is “substance” or “essence.” Substance or essence does not refer to personality. The term before it, “express image” is the Greek word “charakter,” which again is what the “name” of God means.
Miller Isaac
Paul L. King you’re just explaining gramma into anything group think. If there was some tri person thing it would say that and not one.
Miller Isaac
Can Trinitarians show that three divine persons were present when Jesus was baptized by John? Absolutely not. The one, omnipresent God used three simultaneous manifestations. Only one divine person was present–Jesus Christ the Lord.
Varnel Watson
three simultaneous manifestations in my line of ministry work often shows a multiple personality – just sayin Isara Mo Joe Absher may have encountered such For Miller Light to be talking about God as a multiple personality … well I will leave it there
Jeremy Rice
At least you say Jesus was. Divine . How bout the father that said this is my son in whom I’m well pleased ? and the Holy Spirit thAt descended on Jesus and lighted upon him . Starting his ministry. What did he do after he was filled with the Holy Spirit. At this point ?
Paul L. King
Miller Isaac, Absolutely so! The Father (one person) spoke to the Son (a second person). Jesus was not speaking to HImself. that would be a logical contradiction. The Holy Spirit came upon Jesus distinctly and separately from Jesus–not merely a manifestation. Jesus Himself later spoke of the Holy Spirit having personality in John 14-16–The Holy Spirit teaches, enlivens memory, convicts and convinces–all personality characteristics.
Miller Isaac
one name. one spirit. one God. one farher. one son of God and man redeeming the world through the gospel as long as we don’t follow false doctrine like this. jesus said if you see me you see the father and he’s he’s allowed to talk to
himself especially as an example how to pray. you think you can do something God can’t?? God’s not allowed to talk to himself so we must believe a doctrine that’s never stated in the Bible.
0 examples of baptism in the tittles.
0 examples of anthony done in the titles. even false doctrine people like you used the name not tittles to cast out devils in the book of acts.
0 times does the bible say person to describe anything about God.
these are made up ideas that aren’t in the bible and by the logic you use to put whatever you want in the Bible you can put anything in the Bible and take anything out.
Miller Isaac
i can’t tell what rice was saying.
Jeremy Rice
Paul L. King absolutely. He is a person . They are not three different Gods . One God . But three different persons . Father ,son, Holy Spirit. All one ☝️ God . The one and only . Everything we see . God made it . He is the almighty . After Jesus was crucified and died for all of our sins . He went to hell . And took the keys ? of death ? hell and the grave . And rose from the grave on the 3rd day . Then he was on the earth ? for 50 days before he ascended back into heaven . When he did he said tarry in the city of Jerusalem until you be endued with power from on high . So at the day of Pentecost the Holy Spirit came like cloven toungue of fire ?. This started the church ⛪. 3000 people were saved as peter received the babtism of the Holy Spirit. There was 150 people in the upper room waiting on the Holy Spirit to come . They all spoke in toungues . And even different languages. So the church ⛪ started . Jesus said before he left I have to go back to heaven but don’t worry I’m going to send you another comforter. Even the spirit of truth he will abide with you forever . So we have the Holy Spirit the father and Jesus are in heaven . Seated on the throne . The Holy Spirit reveals the father and the son to us . And empowers us to be witnesses to the whole world ?. It’s the fire ? of the Holy Spirit that empowers us to heal set people free . Lead people to salvation to do what Jesus did when he was here . Praise Jesus . He made all this possible . By his Holy blood. Making us right with God . And giving us his precious Holy Spirit. To do his will . Thank you ? Father . We praise your holy name . And pray for all in this feed . That you would save heal deliver and bless all that reads this in Jesus mighty name we pray amen ?.
Miller Isaac
please show one time in the bible where it says person about anything of God? oh never happens. hmmmm
what about trinity? 0 huh?
more than one name? only Jesus huh?
that’s a nice teling of what happened in acts but then only said Jesus and never tittle in acts when Baptizing.
then after they finished writing scripture the early church was killed and the government controlled catholic church took over with all their pantheistic false doctrines and here we are. no examples of tripantheism in any bible.
Ephesians 4:5-6 King James Version (KJV)
5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.
Varnel Watson
hey Miller Isaac heres some more proof you cant answer
5. “Man is become as one of us” proves plurality of persons (Gen. 3:22).
6. Two and three Persons called God have been seen by the same men at the same time and places as being separate persons (Dan. 7:9-14; Mt. 3:16-17; Jn. 1:31-34; Acts 7:54-60; Rev. 6:16; 7:9-17; 21:22; 22:3).
7. Two Lords are mentioned in Gen. 19:24; one on earth and one in heaven.
8. Two Persons are referred to in the Old Testament See Ps. 8:5-6 with Heb. 2:5-18; Ps. 16:8-10 with Acts 2:25-36; Ps. 22:1-22 with Mt. 27:35,39-43,45-46; Heb. 9:14; 10:5-12; Ps. 40:6-10 with Heb. 10:5-7; and Ps. 45:6-7 with Heb. 1:8-9.
9. Two Lords are mentioned sitting side by side (Ps. 110:1,5; Mt. 22:44; 26:64; Acts 2:33-34; 7:54-56; Rom. 8:34; Eph. 1:20; Col. 3:1; Heb. 1:3,13; 8:1; 10:12; 12:2; 1Pet. 3:22; Rev. 22:3).
10. Two Persons are mentioned and required in order to understand the plain language of Ps. 2; 9:19; 132:17; Prov. 30:4; Isa. 4:2; 10:16-17; 28:16; 49:1-10; 50:4-11; 52:13 – Isa. 53:12; 62:11; Mic. 5:1-5; Jer. 23:4-8; 33:14-26; Zech. 3:8-10; 6:12-13. In these passages one is anointed, becomes the son of, is sent by, is taught by, and becomes the servant of the other; and both are called Lord.
Miller Isaac
they aren’t proofs. it’s more the same grammar reinventing that if were true would make the Bible invalid. all you can do is copy and paste the same false doctrine and ignore all the Bible i quote.
if this reinventing of grammar is true then the Bible/ Jesus a liar and if it were true there would have been at least one time in the Bible somone said 3 persons or triune but you have to make up grammar false doctrine that if it’s the case i can use it to say there’s any number of Gods and have to ignore most of the Bible.
you just need this false doctrine to justify the trinitarian church killing millions of people in the name of the trinity not Jesus.
the counterfeit chuch came up with many other false pantheistic doctrines that were mostly forgotten as non biblical but you just need to run this one into the ground to help confuse millions more and kill more faith.
Varnel Watson
Miller Isaac did you even read them? Why arent you answering any of them? Should we keep on going to 89? or you gave up at the first couple of verses I quoted?
Miller Isaac
i showed you screen shots and everything. it’s the same blindness over and over as you ignore the Bible.
please show one example in the bible of somone being baptized in the titles! i will send $10000 rn! oh never happens because the apostles weren’t confused ??♂️ then maybe we should be like them and Jesus who knows his only name and spirit and baptism.
Jeremy Rice
Miller Isaac everytime you post something my head hurts . And the rest of us in here .Pleaze call on Jesus and get it right you are arguing with the Holy Spirit. Who has spoken through many people on here . Not once through you . So.. I’m dusting the dust off my feet .
Paul L. King
Miller Isaac How many courses and years of Greek and Hebrew have you taken and in what schools to be able to say with authority that we are engaging in the “reinventing of grammar”?
Miller Isaac
just one verse that’s all or one time explain the Godhead without adding words to describe God that jesus or he apostles never used or one example of titles baptism. there are none and it doesn’t take years of greek or hebrew to count to 0 or 1 especially not when Jesus says over and over the opposite.
Miller Isaac
Ephesians 4:5-6 King James Version (KJV)
5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.
Paul L. King
Miller Isaac, Here is the Trinity in the very verses you cite (except you left out verse 4): “Endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace. There is one body, and one SPIRIT, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; 5 One LORD [Jesus Christ the Son], one faith, one baptism, One God and FATHER of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.”–Ephesians 4:3-6, KJV. 1 Spirit X 1 Lord (the Son) x 1 Father = 3-in-1.
Miller Isaac
Paul L. King you literally have to insert things not there and ignore things you don’t like to make that work. One spirit one name. The bible never says otherwise.
Paul L. King
Miller Isaac I am not inserting anything, only explaining what the New Testament says elsewhere. “Lord” throughout the New Testament refers to Jesus Christ the Son of God/God the Son. You keep misunderstanding the word “name.” It does not mean “title” as you claim, but to the Hebrew people it means “character, reputation, authority.”
Miller Isaac
glad we’re all on the same page now.
Miller Isaac
if you want to insert words and ideas in the bible from panthirst or atheist at least use ones that don’t contradict the Bible so much.
Miller Isaac
Jeremy Rice every time it says LORD like this in all caps. Its the unknown name of God before Jesus came. It’s the tetragrammaton and please learn your theology before you keep misusing it as tripantheism.
Jeremy Rice
Miller Isaac are u a born again Christian?
Miller Isaac
Jeremy Rice i don’t like labels like that but i try to know and follow Jesus and always being reborn in Him.
Jeremy Rice
Miller Isaac it’s a yes no question if you were truly born again you would know it otherwise check your salvation. Read my words .in them and what I have said to you is an invitation to accept Gods free gift ?. So that being said Iv left the 99 and came for the lost sheep ?. ?
Miller Isaac
Jeremy Rice you can’t demand terminology any more than a Canadian be a law breaker for freedom of pronoun use. I said I’m q follower of Christ and reborn but no one can show me an example of titles baptism in scripture otlr person or God. Say whatever you want but to twist Jesus words into persons when he says one God… thats simply contradictory.
Jeremy Rice
Miller Isaac I just want to make sure you are saved . So if not . Call on Jesus . Repeat after me . My life is a mess I need your help . I ask you to come in my heart ♥️ and save me . Wash me of all my sins . Make me a new creature in Christ Jesus . Fill me with the Holy Spirit to be a minister . Now and forever . In the mighty name of Jesus we pray . Amen ? and amen ? it is finished …
Miller Isaac
Jeremy Rice yeah magic words save huh? Not grace or works or anything but accepting who may or may not accept you ?? see you in hell from heaven. Jk I’m not the judge but only. HIS word can judge and that says theres only one of him and nothing peson about him. One name one spitit and one redeamer that’s all the same. ???✌?
Miller Isaac
Steve Maxwell will you or anyone here read anything i post longer than 140 letters at a time? Will anyone here respond to the bible verses i reference? Can anyone explain your false doctrine without using non biblical words that only come from off the rails councels?
Miller Isaac
Steve Maxwell please READ don’t just regurgitate nonsense.
Miller Isaac
Steve Maxwell there were always some how had more truth than others and those in power who killed those who disagreed.
Varnel Watson
Miller Isaac show us the BIBLE you claim to stick to? I have not seen you point to a single passage that proves your point that the group has not disproved yet When are you going to get it?
Miller Isaac
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Troy Day its like trying to describe the sunset to a blind person that doesn’t know they are blind.
Steve Maxwell
Let me explain an aspect to many Oneness folks, Troy. You and I look at all of his verses and think to ourselves, “yep, I believe that verse and it fits with my Trinitarian beliefs. ” However, most Oneness folks can accept that we believe in one God. A supernatural God, that is not subject to the same laws of nature that men are bound to. They want to limit God to something that fits in their brain. How does an infinite, omnipresent, omnipotent god fit into our finite brains.
Jevan Little
No, we dont limit God to anything. It’s a matter of accepting scriptures
Miller Isaac
Steve Maxwell why are labels not found in the bible so important to some people?
Miller Isaac
Jevan Little great accept him saying he’s the one and only God or he would day he’s s tri person but he never does.
Steve Maxwell
Miller Isaac, I’ve heard my pastors preach that there is only one God, all of my life.
Miller Isaac
Steve Maxwell amen one and nothing tri
Jevan Little
Miller Isaac tell them, not me
Miller Isaac
Jevan Little yeah idk why some people don’t wont biblical theology ?
Varnel Watson
can you explain either of these? Moorehouse Moore Denis Herve Mercier
Moorehouse Moore
Real simple ….. at least for me I’ve seen the light
Ok here it is !!!!!
GOD IS ONE
Moorehouse Moore
Why do we need to yank our chains?
Why can’t we just be brothers and pray for each other !
Why ???
Brady Hall
Moorehouse I’ve never had a Oneness call me a brother ?
Moorehouse Moore
Well brother it’s time to reach across the table
Moorehouse Moore
Denis Herve Mercier are you also oneness believer ?
Varnel Watson
Moorehouse Moore except from beating around the bush I dont see you responding to any of the 89
Moorehouse Moore
Acts 22:16
Moorehouse Moore
Wait I do have a answer for all 89 reasons
God is One ☝️
Varnel Watson
Moorehouse Moore Answer them then …
Moorehouse Moore
I’m not going to argue with you
Go with God Brother
Anonymous
yes indeed Duane L Burgess Daniel J Hesse Dan Anthony Bishop Bernie L Wade Philip Williams James Philemon Bowers Billy Monroe Poff Jevan Little
Anonymous
God help us every one
Anonymous
Wherever went the simplicity that’s in Christ Jesus?
Anonymous
The Father (Mt. 3:17), Jesus (Jn. 10:36), angels (Lk. 1:32-35), demons (Mk. 3:11; 5:7), and apostles (Mt. 16:16; Jn. 1:14; Rom. 8:32; 2Jn. 1:3), all declare the sonship of Jesus, but not once do they declare a Christ-fatherhood.
Anonymous
Troy Day well, maybe here:
“For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace. Of the greatness of his government and peace there will be no end. He will reign on David’s throne and over his kingdom, establishing and upholding it with justice and righteousness from that time on and forever. The zeal of the Lord Almighty will accomplish this.”
Isaiah 9:6-7
Anonymous
Reason 63, he was not as great as his Father.
True, as the referenced Scriptures prove, but contradicts orthodox Trinity!
Anonymous
Over 80 times Jesus affirmed that He was not the Father and not the only person in the Godhead. Christ was the speaker, but not the one spoken of or to (Mt. 7:21; 11:27; 18:10,35; Lk. 2:49; Jn. 5:17-43; 8:19-49; 10:17-37; 14:7-28; 15:1-26; Rev. 1:1; etc.). Is it any wonder that the Godhead, the Trinity, and the unity of God are so mysterious when we force separate persons to become only one person, all because we do not want to recognize the true meaning of the word one as referring to unity rather than individuality in some scriptures? People would be just as great a mystery if we forced the meaning of all men to refer to one person.
Anonymous
Philip Williams the Fathers grester authority does not contradict Orthodox Trinitarinism. It is convered in the Creed.
Anonymous
Troy Day at least in my case, this has nothing to do with Oneness or modalism!
Anonymous
Michael Chauncey really? Just how?
Anonymous
Michael Chauncey what should be our light, the Scriptures or the Creed?
Anonymous
Philip Williams That we believe and confess
that our Lord Jesus Christ, God’s Son,
is both God and human, equally.
He is God from the essence of the Father,
begotten before time;
and he is human from the essence of his mother,
born in time;
completely God, completely human,
with a rational soul and human flesh;
equal to the Father as regards divinity,
less than the Father as regards humanity.
Anonymous
Michael Chauncey that’s the God of the philosophers. i prefer the simplicity of the Scriptures.
Anonymous
Philip Williams this from the Athenasian creed, the Orthodox view of the Trinity and as I said, the Father’s greater authority does not contradict Orthodox Trinitarianism. You asked, How so? I provided the portion of the creed to show you.
Anonymous
Michael Chauncey yes, i asked for that.
Anonymous
Michael Chauncey anything that contradicts Jesus’s very words but regarded as a greater light is but an idol.
Anonymous
Philip Williams it does not contradict Christ’s words. It affirms them.
Anonymous
Michael Chauncey how does greater become equal?
Anonymous
Philip Williams equal as God Philppians 2:6
Lesser as in his incarnate human form. Philppians 2:7
Greater did not become equal. Equal became lesser. He humbled himself and took on the form of a servant.
Anonymous
Michael Chauncey sorry, that’s the kenosis heresy mentioned in the Chicago Statement on Biblical Inerrancy.
Jesus assures us that his words will never pass away. Are you saying they ceased to be eternal at the point this creed was adopted?
Anonymous
I quoted directly from Philippians 2:6-7. There is no heresy in those verses.
Anonymous
Michael Chauncey how did Equal became lesser. ? Philip Williams
Anonymous
Michael Chauncey yes, that’s the verse that liberals use to explain that Jesus didn’t know that Adam wasn’t an historical person that no Flood ever destroyed the whole earth. What this verse is saying is that he obeyed the Father’s wishes!
Anonymous
Philip Williams never heard it used for ANY of this Link John
Anonymous
Troy Day i run into it all the time because of my work in this area.
Norm Geisler was also familiar with these arguments, why he included a statement on the kenosis heresy in the Chicago Statement.
Anonymous
Philip Williams ἀλλὰ ἑαυτὸν ἐκένωσεν. The root word in ekenosen is kenosis. Christ emptied himself. You can go to Chicago and call something a heresy if you like but Philippians 2:6-7 is not heresy. Christ existed eternally in the form (morphe) of God equal (isa) with God. He voluntarily emptied (kenosis) himself of his heavenly Glory and took on the lesser human form in his incarnation.
Hebrews 2:9 agrees.
But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.
Anonymous
The Triune Godhead is three in one in spirit, yet they all have their own independent functions that are necessary for them to accomplish their overall mission…they work in unison, something mankind is unable to accomplish…prayers…
Anonymous
Philip Williams The Triune Godhead is three in one in spirit – NO Oneness or modalism! Skip Pauley just exposed your fake RCC belief system
Anonymous
Michael Chauncey that’s, as Paul writes here, the Christ humbling himself to become baby Jesus instead of retaining his Heavenly position with the angelic powers. I hope that you aren’t suggesting that he emptied himself of his divinity. Or during his ministry didn’t know who he was, or didn’t speak eternal truth.
Anonymous
Philip Williams God does not thirst, does not hunger, does not grow weary, cannot be tempted with evil, and cannot die. Jesus by becoming fully man made it possible for him to fully identify with mankind. He laid his heavenly glory down as is demonstrated when Christ prayed, “And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began.”
Anonymous
Philip Williams the Father the Son and the Spirit are EQUAL as in a perichoresis
Anonymous
Troy Day dat werd’s too big fo me! Wat duts it mean?
Anonymous
these are great – these are JUST great Bishop Bernie L Wade
even Dan Anthony stands in ATT here not daring to say nothing
Anonymous
Troy Day in fact there are many trinities. Hundreds.
Anonymous
https://www.raptureready.com/
Anonymous
Sounds like an Assembly of Gods teaching??
Anonymous
Dan Anthony you mean sounds like the BIBLE the only true way to reach God and get to heaven for eternity
Anonymous
CAN ONE LOSE THEIR SALVATION.??
13 Bible Verses about Guarding Yourself..
1 Peter 5:8
Be of sober spirit, be on the alert. Your adversary, the devil, prowls around like a roaring lion, seeking someone to devour.
1 John 5:21
Little children, guard yourselves from idols.
Proverbs 4:23
Watch over your heart with all diligence,
For from it flow the springs of life.
1 Timothy 4:16
Pay close attention to yourself and to your teaching; persevere in these things, for as you do this you will ensure salvation both for yourself and for those who hear you.
Psalm 39:1
For the choir director, for Jeduthun. A Psalm of David.
I said, “I will guard my ways
That I may not sin with my tongue;
I will guard my mouth as with a muzzle
While the wicked are in my presence.”
2 John 1:8
Watch yourselves, that you do not lose what we have accomplished, but that you may receive a full reward.
Ephesians 6:11
Put on the full armor of God, so that you will be able to stand firm against the schemes of the devil.
1 Corinthians 16:13
Be on the alert, stand firm in the faith, act like men, be strong.
2 Timothy 4:15
Be on guard against him yourself, for he vigorously opposed our teaching.
Deuteronomy 4:9
“Only give heed to yourself and keep your soul diligently, so that you do not forget the things which your eyes have seen and they do not depart from your heart all the days of your life; but make them known to your sons and your grandsons.
Ecclesiastes 5:1
Guard your steps as you go to the house of God and draw near to listen rather than to offer the sacrifice of fools; for they do not know they are doing evil.
1 Timothy 6:20
O Timothy, guard what has been entrusted to you, avoiding worldly and empty chatter and the opposing arguments of what is falsely called “knowledge”—
James 4:7
Submit therefore to God. Resist the devil and he will flee from you.