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Romans 6:3-4
[3]Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
[4]Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
Louise Cummings
I believe we become one with Christ. But really I believe you become one with Christ , when you are born again. I believe Water Baptism is a symbol of the believers union with Christ in His death, burial , and Resurrection. I believe we put the old man to death. Or rendered inoperative. ( Colossians 2:11. Says In Him you also circumcised with the circumcision made without hands , by putting off the body the sins of the flesh , by the circumcision of Christ. / 12/buried with Him in Baptism, in which you also were raised with Him through. Faith in in the working of zGod , who raised Him from He dead. ). You can read verses ( 13–15.)
Ray E Horton
Louise Cummings Amen, sister Louise.
Varnel Watson
I do not see John David Barton who posted this scripture commenting and explaining his point just yet
Link Hudson
Certainly not proof of Oneness beliefs about the Godhead.
Varnel Watson
I;d like to see how John David Barton saw it as a proof cause I just dont see it in this verse
Varnel Watson
Link Hudson do you see Oneness vs Godhead in this Romans passage?
Link Hudson
It mentions Jesus and the Father, so I’d say it’s another verse against Oneness theology.
Varnel Watson
I would have to agree John David Barton
Varnel Watson
Where exactly do Oneness Pentecostals stand in relation to orthodoxy?
Are they in or out?
This difference in the matter of words used during baptisms represents something far more important: a different view of the nature of Father, Son, and Holy Spirit—what orthodox Christians refer to as the Trinity.
Beginning about 1913, certain Pentecostal ministers began to ask, “What is the correct apostolic formula for baptizing believers?” Several ministers concluded that the correct formula, the one used by the apostles themselves, was found in Acts 2:38, where Peter proclaims, “Repent, and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins.”
Attentive Bible readers will immediately ask, “But didn’t Jesus command the disciples to baptize in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit?” Indeed, that formula is found in Matthew 28:19. But Oneness Pentecostals just dont care WHEN asked if they believe in God the Father, Son, and Spirit, all Oneness Pentecostals would not know what to tell you and start twisting the BIBLE
Isara Mo
Troy Day
I glimpsed on their beliefs and I can say they are OUT..
Isara Mo
Troy Day
The scriptures reveal a distinct Father, a distinct Son, a distinct Spirit..
To say or to name the THREE as distinct “persons” conjures in our imaginations the physical interpretation of the word ” person” ..and here is where the problem lies.
A person is a human being who is an individual(Dictionary)
So God is an individual…
An individual is ”
single human being as distinct from a group.//
So can we say God is a person distinct from everyone…everything..distinct from creation…distinct from all PERSONS?
The word DISTINCT could be the main point of argument ie if a thing or a person is distinct it has to have a relational value or standard….to sth or someone .eg
single human being as distinct from a group.
Lets define the word DISTINCT …
1.
recognizably different in nature from something else of a similar type.//
Different in NATURE from sth else of a SIMILAR TYPE .
Can this simple definition be explain the God head?
Isara Mo
Scriptures relating to the Father Son and Holy Spirit show the THREE TO BE DISTINCT FROM EACH OTHER though of SIMILAR TYPE but different NATURES…
I once went for a foundational course and was taught this:
The Father is the Creator
The Son is the Administrator
The Holy Spirit is the Executor…
Three ” distinct persons” with three distinct tasks..
But all these are human terms trying to explain the unexplainable…
However, the scriptures especially in New Testament clearly reveal God as a TRIUNE being ..
At Jesus Baptism in the Jordan the full Godhead were visibly revealed…
A creation with the Father Only or the Son Only or the Holy Spirit Only doesn’t make sense..at all.
A Oneness theology can’t fully explain a monotheistic God..ever.(my views Troy).
Isara Mo
//As soon as Jesus was baptized, he went up out of the water. At that moment heaven was opened, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and alighting on him. And a voice from heaven said, “This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased.”
Matthew 3:16-17 NIV//
Troy Day I just need this one scripture (not the whole brochure you sent me on how to witness to Oneness Cult.ure..)
They are not in but out in relation to Orthodoxy..although they have some certain strong points…
The Bible says whoever denies the Son doesn’t have the Father..(Two distinct persons) though one..like Troy Sr and Troy Jr. Same name different natures, very distinct from each other..
John 3: 16 says For (God) so loved the world and sent His only begotten (Son)…these are two distinct persons..
Am I getting mixed up?…
I guess not.
This verse shows two ” persons”:
//always giving thanks to God the Father for everything, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ.
Ephesians 5:20 NIV//
And this also:
//The revelation from Jesus Christ, which God gave him to show his servants what must soon take place. He made it known by sending his angel to his servant John,
Revelation 1:1 NIV//
The revelation of Jesus which GOD gave Him..
Two distinct persons..
Satan has blinded the minds of unbelievers such they refuse two acknowledge such obvious verses…
Varnel Watson
Michael Hazlewood what do you think Rom 6 says?
Michael Hazlewood
Romans 6 : 1-6 Says if you aint buried with CHRIST in baptism (and no one else) you aint His
Varnel Watson
Michael Hazlewood OK – and doesnt the Trinitarian baptismal formula do exactly that? What then?
Michael Hazlewood
Troy Day No the trinity formula acknowledges 3 Gods or persons or something else Not The Lord Jesus Christ
Varnel Watson
how does it NOT address the Lord Jesus Christ ?
Michael Hazlewood
Troy Day AS a second person yes and THAT is Blasphemy
Varnel Watson
Why would it be a Blasphemy if the BIBLE says it?
Michael Hazlewood
Troy Day You are 3 fold guilty of everything you accuse of me ; You’re interpreting Scripture rather than obeying it and excusing yourself from any accountability saying you don’t have to obey these verses to be saved
Varnel Watson
Michael Hazlewood how am I interpreting the scripture and not obeying them WHEN the BIBLE clearly states in Matthew 28:19 :
Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost
do you not believe the BIBLE now?
Michael Hazlewood
Troy Day I answered that and NO you are not obeying Matt 28:19 ; Acts 2:38 is done in obedience to Matt 28:19
Varnel Watson
I am clearly obeying KJV BIBLE in Matthew 28:19
Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost
Are you now claiming the BIBLE does not say
in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost
Michael Hazlewood
Troy Day NO you are not : The Apostles and followers of the Apostolic doctrine did but you are not obeying the commandment of Christ Jesus ; You are interpreting it to fit what you have been taught to do
Varnel Watson
The apostles believe in the APOSTLES CREED just like me
APOSTLES CREED clearly states
I believe in God, the Father Almighty, Creator of Heaven and earth; and in Jesus Christ, His only Son Our Lord, Who was conceived by the Holy Spirit, born of the Virgin Mary, suffered under Pontius Pilate, was crucified, died, and was buried.
Michael Hazlewood
Troy Day YOU are clearly believing men over God and these things are made up by religious leaders to control people , property and money NOT from God
Varnel Watson
Michael Hazlewood you brought up the apostles and their creed. I am clearly obeying KJV BIBLE in Matthew 28:19
Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost
Michael Hazlewood
Troy Day NO you are not and you endanger your soul every hour you hesitate to obey as ALL Christians in Scripture obeyed ACTS 2:38
Michael Hazlewood
ACTS 19:1-6 KJB
Varnel Watson
Michael Hazlewood Why dont you believe our KJV BIBLE in Matthew 28:19
Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost
Are you some liberal who rejects the BIBLE ?
Michael Hazlewood
Troy Day I am obeying the KJB you are not
Varnel Watson
KJ BIBLE in Matthew 28:19 says
Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost
which seems you are rejecting like some liberal
Michael Hazlewood
I would attend an Assemblies of God Church till this conversation took place now NO WAY I aint burning with you in this mess
Varnel Watson
you reject the KJ BIBLE which states in Matthew 28:19
Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost
which seems you are rejecting like some liberal
Gary Micheal Epping
Is there a difference between 3 in 1, and 1 in 3? One of my teachers in Bible school said they were the same thing from different angles, and the fight between the AOG and Oneness Pentecostals was making a mountain out of a molehill. Just asking.
Varnel Watson
YES Michael Hazlewood Gary Micheal Epping TAKE ANY top 3 from the list and explain at least 1 https://www.facebook.com/groups/pentecostaltheologygroup/permalink/2229630977091905/
Varnel Watson
Miller Isaac this is an old discussion we’ve had with others on the subject WHY dont you give us your Biblical perspective ?
Miller Isaac
Troy Day #overit
Trinity not biblical.
Varnel Watson
Instead of cliche phrases read the discussion
Shane Vanmeter
Miller Isaac The doctrine of the Trinity did not originate from the early church, rather it was established in the content of divine revelation of both the OT and NT.
For example, in the OT, we find plural words being applied to the one God (cf. Gen. 1:26; 3:22; 11:7; Eccl. 12:1; Isa. 6:3, 8; 54:5 et al.). In Isa. 9:6, the Messiah is identified as El gibbor (“mighty God”).[1] In Dan. 7:9-14, we find two objects of divine worship is presented—the Ancient of Days and the Son of Man. Further, there are many Angel of the Lord appearances (preincarnate Christ), such as to Hager (cf. Gen. 16:11-13); Abraham (cf. Gen. chaps. 18-19); Moses (cf. Exod. 3:1ff.); Gideon (cf. Judg. 6:11-24); Manoah (cf. Judg. 13:16, 21) et al. The angel of the Lord was not a created, indefinite angel. He was identified as God/YHWH and claimed He was the “the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob” (Exod. 3:6)—YHWH, yet a distinct person from another YHWH (cf. Gen. 19:24). For more information on the angel of the Lord see The Preincarnate Christ as the Angel of the Lord
The NT contains many passages that clearly present the concept of the Trinity—cf. Matt. 28:19; John 1:1, 3, 18; 5:17-18; 14:23; 17:5; 20:28; Rom. 15:30; 2 Cor. 13:14; 4:4-6; Eph. 2:18; 2 Thess. 2:13; Titus 3:5-7; Heb. 1:1-12; 1 Pet. 1:2-3; 1 John 1:1-3; Rev. 5:13-14 and many more could be cited.
Shane Vanmeter
https://christiandefense.org/trinity/the-preincarnate-christ-as-the-angel-of-the-lord-yhwh/
Miller Isaac
Shane Vanmeter congrats on your cut and paste not read skills.
Shane Vanmeter
Your point?
Joshwa Bedford
Shane Vanmeter sadly he will find a way to rebuttal every single verse you shared.
Eugene Stiger
Joshwa Bedford not looking for truth..looking for arguments.
Joshwa Bedford
Eugene Stiger amen
Melody Cates Kinzer
Miller Isaac you asked for scripturre.
1 John 1:That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ.
1 John 1:3 KJV
https://bible.com/bible/1/1jn.1.3.KJV
Miller Isaac
Melody Cates Kinzer yup logos = God. Logos made flesh and John calls Jesus logos in letters and revelation. Still looking for 3 persons.
Miller Isaac
Melody Cates Kinzer i meant this pic
Varnel Watson
Paul L. King You’ve said to have done research on oneness What is your take on this Bible verse as a proof or disproof ?
Paul L. King
Romans 6:3-4 is no proof of oneness. Both oneness and trinitarians agree that we are baptized into Christ. Praise God for that agreement. Where we disagree is on just what that means and how it should be interpreted. The verses do show, however, that Jesus Christ and the Father are NOT the same, as the Father raised Jesus from the dead–Jesus did not raise Himself from the dead.
Miller Isaac
Troy Day cut and paste to the death.
Shane Vanmeter
Miller Isaac Your point?
Miller Isaac
Shane Vanmeter this group is pointless poor representation of Christian fellowship and the only theology is who can ignore cut and paste the most.
Shane Vanmeter
Whos ignoring? I remember giving a direct answer to a verse you pointed out before and you ignored that. The Trinity is a doctrine. It is concise and orderly just as any doctrine should be. You dont have an orderly doctrine, if you did then you would be able to point us to a teacher that has it all layed out so he can be completely open as to what he believes.
Nora Neel-Toney
They take the scriptures out of context
Varnel Watson
who?
Nora Neel-Toney
Troy Day some people do to suit themselves
Varnel Watson
Nora Neel-Toney who?
Varnel Watson
YES Melody Cates Kinzer :That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ.
1 John 1:3 KJV is truly a great Trinitarian scripture The AND (kai, Greek conjunction) clearly shows 2 entities meaning 2 unique Persons Son and Father – just TITLES cannot have fellowship – the Greek word for that is coinonie – requires 2 or more participants Pls Look it up Philip Williams
Miller Isaac
covered this about 30 times