| Rico Hero |
Peter Fiske, the first person to preach an old earth is Moses through the inspiration of the Holy Spirit about 1600 BC. ” and the earth ( defined as dry land in v10 of Gen chapter 1) was ( from the verb to become, NOT to be) va ha bo hu ( waste and empty) and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.( Gen.1:2). As you can see the earth darkness and water already in existence before the work in day 1. Young Earthers simply change the literal word of God by spiritualizing it to come up with their view. This is why St. Peter , said ” they willfuly forget, that by the word of God the HEAVENS were of Old. |
| Peter Fiske |
Rico Hero, to employ the person of the Holy Spirit into the false teaching of the supposed Gap in Genesis 1 is quite frankly blasphemy. And I would caution you, as Lord Jesus Himself said in Mark 3:28-30 that those who are foolish enough to do such things as misquote the Holy Spirit, and reject the ministry of the Holy Spirit, there are deadly eternal consequences for such action.The Hebrew phrase “tohu-vav-bohu” is in the disjunctive form and describes a series of creative events in Genesis 1:2 , which is and expounding of the general thesis statement of Creation in Genesis 1:1. The original context of Genesis 1 is very different than that of Isaiah 34:11 and Jeremiah 4, as Genesis 1 describes the creation from nothing in the sequence of events on day one of creation week comma while Jeremiah 4 and Isaiah 3411 describe the judgment of God, and is alluded to or compared to the emptiness of the world on DAY 1 of Creation Week as God was creating it from nothing. https://youtu.be/WhkPBXsM9K4And in none of the cases is there any theological implications of a pre-Adamic world! |
| Peter Fiske |
Rico Hero, the Apostle (St. is a Catholic title) Peter was not referring to any pre-Adamic world being destroyed by Lucifer’s mythical flood. To continue beating that drum is tantamount to teaching false doctrine, which is what Dake did very prolifically. I don’t like to call names that, and I don’t wish to label you incorrectly, but repeated teachings of false Doctrine is heresy, and those that engage in it perpetually are Heretics. If I were you I’d be very careful in my interpretation of God’s holy Word as he holds his Word in higher esteem than he does His name! (Psalm 138:2 [http://www.truthortradition.com/…/psalm-138-2-for-you…]). |
| Rico Hero |
Hey Peter, So you deny that what is written in Gen 1:1-2 is inspired by the Holy Spirit , huh? And you deny the earth water and darkness already in existence before the creation work, huh? This is the word by Moses inspired by the Holy Spirit Genesis 1:1-2 King James Version (KJV)1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.2 And the EARTH was without form, and void; and DARKNESS was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the WATERS. So Peter, the earth , darkness and water was already in existence ! This is why St. peter inspired by the Holy Spirit , said ” they willfuly forget, that by the word of God the HEAVENS were of Old. |
| Peter Fiske |
Rico, your knowledge of English apparently is lacking, if you would go back and read what I wrote you would see that your first statement is completely off the mark. What I am denying is that Genesis 1:2 claims a gap, not that Genesis isn’t inspired by the Holy Spirit. So in essence it is your flawed interpretation of Genesis 1 2 that is a Satan, not the Holy Spirit. |
| Rico Hero |
Gen 1:2 doesn’t need interpretation , Peter. It is plainly stated the earth, darkness and water already in existence before the creation work of day 1. Yet, young earthers deny this truth and you call it from Satan!? ” they willfuly forget, that by the word of God the HEAVENS were of Old. |
| Peter Fiske |
there’s no biblically basis for the claim that Genesis 1:2 teaches a gap, that’s ridiculous! Tohu-vav-bohu is a reference to the condition of the Earth just as God created out of nothing , called a VAV disjunction. The context of Genesis 1:2 is the sequential creative acts on Day One.”In the beginning God created (בר×bara) the heavens and the earth(×ת הש××ž×™× ×•×ת ×”×רץ et hashayim ve’et ha’aretz). The earth was without form, and void (ובהו תהו tohu vavohu); and darkness was on the face of the deep (×ª×”×•× tehom). And the Spirit of God was hovering(מרחפת merachefet) over the face of the waters (×”×ž×™× ×¢×œÖ¾×¤× ×™ al pnei hamayim).”http://www.douglashamp.com/day/You quote the King James version, which is the worst possible version one can quote in modern times due to the fact that the English prose (verbiage) that is used is 400 years old. That means that errors in interpretation |
| Ricky Grimsley |
Isaiah 45:18 KJVS[18] For thus saith the Lord that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I am the Lord ; and there is none else. This helps prove the gap theory to me. Otherwise it contradicts genesis 1:2. |
| Peter Fiske |
Ricky Grimsley, the KJV is the default version of the Bible that false teachers go to deliberately in order to deliver their unbiblical heresy to unsuspecting low-information folks within the Body of Christ. Unfortunately this is the case because the KJV is an archaic 400 year old English translation, and as any person with a modicum of common sense could tell you, the English language has considerably changed since the first translation of the KJV in 1611. This is so because by 1769 , the 1611 KJV had become obsolete due to the changes in the English language and just 158 years from 1611 to 1769. This is why Cambridge and Oxford universities redid the KJV which is now called the KJV2 [https://rickbeckman.org/log/kjv-1611-vs-1769/], and is what some called the *Authorized Version* – AV King James Version of today.I know that Dake the ridiculous claim that the entire Bible came to him in the KJV, however I can say with confidence that in heaven today no one is speaking King James English as the so-called “holy language.” The reason is quite simple, the Hebrew Bible (Old Testament) was given in ancient (not modern) Hebrew [https://www.biblica.com/…/in-what-language-was-the…/], and New Testament in Koine Greek. https://lrc.la.utexas.edu/eieol/ntgolAs far as Isaiah 45:18 goes…”For this is what the LORD says– he who created the heavens, he is God; he who fashioned and made the earth, he founded it; he did not create it to be empty, but formed it to be inhabited– he says: ‘I am the LORD, and there is no other.’ ” (NIV)https://creation.com/creation-in-isaiahNowhere in that passage does it indicate that there was an alleged *gap* in Genesis 1:2 , nor does it imply that there was a pre-Adamic world that God supposedly destroyed event called Lucifer’s flood.”Some people use Isaiah 45:18 as an argument for the use of ‘became’ in Genesis 1:2. In this verse, Isaiah says that God created the earth not in vain. He formed it to be inhabited. The word ‘in vain’ is the same as tohu; that is, the same word translated ‘without form’ in Genesis 1:2. So ‘gap’ theorists say that since God did not create it that way, it must have become that way. But again, the context is significant. In Isaiah, the context requires the use of the translation ‘in vain’. That is, God did not create the earth without a purpose; He created it to be inhabited. Genesis 1 tells us then how He brought form to the unformed earth and inhabitants to the empty earth. It was not really finished until He said so at the end of the six days of creation.”https://creation.com/the-gap-theory-an-idea-with-holeshttps://creation.com/creation-in-isaiah |
| Ricky Grimsley |
It’s the Hebrew that’s the same. Not the English. |
| Peter Fiske |
Ricky Grimsley, neither you nor Dake were/are Hebrew Scholars. You’re presuming that the wording, not the context of Isaiah 45:18 presumes a supposed Gap , and I’ve demonstrated to you that it the context , which is all that is necessary in determining proper exegesis of scripture, doesn’t. What you’re doing is either disingenuous, or purely ignorant based on some sort of emotional attachment to Dake and his false teachings. |
| Ricky Grimsley |
Seriously though. 6000 year old earth is ridiculous though. |
| Ricky Grimsley |
All you have demonstrated is that you are stubborn and have no regard for science, or any thought about the origin of demons or the fall of Lucifer or the 30 other things that go into the gap theory. People like you are why we can’t be taken seriously. |
| Peter Fiske |
Ricky Grimsley, I’ve shared with you my experience, and the fact that two more individuals one of whom is now deceased, left Christianity because of the damnable false doctrine, the so-called *Gap Theory.* It doesn’t take rocket science to figure out that if you have to try to fit mythical millions of years in between Genesis 1:1 and 1:2, in order for the Bible to sound supposedly *more scientific*, that scripture isn’t your foundation, but secular ideas of secularist fundamentalist who themselves reject any form of biblical explanation for origins. On that note, it is weak-minded low-information folks in the body of Christ who in all gullibility, fall for the false Genesis compromising teachings of the likes of the late heretic, Finis Jennings Dake, that are contributing to the delinquency of Christian evangelism and hindering the cause of Christ! |
| Ricky Grimsley |
I feel sad for you. |
| Peter Fiske |
Ricky Grimsley((you have no regard for science))That’s laughable coming from the likes of you, as I’m employed as a science instructor in a secular academic facility, and have a masters in physics education.Thanks for providing the example of how a low-information level understanding of biblical apologetics and hermeneutics can cause someone to compromise Scriptural Authority for supposed *scientific authority*, which is actually nothing more than secularist philosophical interpretation. I would recommend that you do your homework on this issue! |
| Peter Fiske |
Ricky Grimsley, it’s not the fact that I feel sad for you for being blatantly misled in terms of your understanding of Genesis and creation, but the fact that you are just an example of a widespread deficit in sound biblical understanding among ordinary believers. |
| Peter Fiske |
Ricky Grimsley, the secret to success in proving a point is showing objective evidence, whether your audience accepts it or not, that obliterates the point of you you’re trying to refute. If you want to be taken seriously here, you have to provide evidence not just post a KJV verse from the Dake Bible and assume you’ve won the argument. |
| Ricky Grimsley |
I know I haven’t won the argument. We both know each other’s arguments and reject the other. I can walk outside and know I’m right. |
| Peter Fiske |
No, you can’t Ricky Grimsley because the objective evidence I presented completely disproves Dake and his heresies, including the one in question, that does the most harm to Christian evangelism, the Gap Heresy. This is because it causes a cracked foundation to be presented as part of Biblical teaching.You can delusionally go outside and pat yourself on the back and think you’re right but at the end of the day you are part of the problem of why we’re losing young people to indoctrination into godless secularism , and why they’re not seeing any cohesive and coherent biblical narrative from the very first verse of Genesis. |
| Ricky Grimsley |
The gap theory isn’t heresy. |
| Ricky Grimsley |
We are losing young people because idiots can’t believe in science and make their narrow version of the Bible definitional of the gospel. |
| Peter Fiske |
The Gap Theory isn’t just heresy Ricky Grimsley, it’s damnable heresy! |
| Ricky Grimsley |
Sir you are are stupid. |
| Peter Fiske |
Ricky Grimsley, you sound like a classic Genesis compromiser full of yourself and the full the false information you espouse. Being a science educator, and former evolutionist I can tell you that what you’re doing is not appealing to science, what you’re doing is appealing to a secular evolutionary philosophical interpretation of science. Supposed deep time isn’t science, it’s a subjective believe that the Earth is 4.6 billion years old, which is only needed to support the false idea of evolution. Even if you are supposedly appealing to science, what you’re doing in either case is assuming human interpretation over the revealed word of God. That is heresy! |
| Peter Fiske |
Ricky Grimsley, turning towards ad hominem insults in order to defend your boy Dake shows you have nothing of substance to debate about. That is classic when imbeciles begin to lose the debate, they resort to childish name-calling in a last-ditch attempt to validate their sinking ship! https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/ad-hominem |
| Ricky Grimsley |
Lol. You’ve already condemned me as a heretic. You already know the arguments. All that’s left is ad hominem attacks. People like you are the problem. |
| Peter Fiske |
So what, Ricky Grimsley, reiterating your pathetic condition only reinforces the need for you to repent of your prideful stubbornness in defending a false prophet (Dake) & his heresy (the Gap Myth). |
| Peter Fiske |
Ricky, ad hominem attacks are, as the definition showed, a desperate attempt to destroy the argument you’re losing against by maliciously attacking the debate opponent. You’ve lost, suck it up like a good-boy, and repent. |
| Ricky Grimsley |
Lol. How many go to your church? |
| Ricky Grimsley |
20? |
| Peter Fiske |
Ricky Grimsley, I go to a large AoG church. http://www.cedarlakeonline.orgWhere NO ONE from the Pastor on down accepts the heretical Gap theory. So what is your excuse for being biblically illiterate enough to believe in Genesis compromise? |
| Ricky Grimsley |
Lol |
| Peter Fiske |
Ricky Grimsley, being stupid isn’t a virtue that you ought to aspire to, and that includes defending false prophets who lead people astray with skewed and completely false ideas on Creation. |
| Rico Hero |
St. peter inspired by the Holy Spirit , said ” they willfuly forget, that by the word of God the HEAVENS were of Old. |
| Peter Fiske |
It’s not *St. Peter*, as that specific designation is a Catholic one (as scripture teaches us that we are all saints in Christ [Romans 1:7]). Secondly, you are misinterpreting 2 Peter 3 as it has nothing to do with a pre- Adamite world destroyed by and mythical Lucifer’s flood. |
| Rico Hero |
Peter Fiske, if we are all Saints , this includes Peter. So why you say ‘its not St . Peter”? |
| Peter Fiske |
To label Peter as *St.* Peter is to follow the Catholic practice of referring to certain folks as canonized saints over other self-professed Christians. |
| Rico Hero |
So you wont call Peter , “Saint Peter”, because of the Catholics , Huh? Well, I dont have such insecurities as you seem to have, Peter Fiske. In regards to ” they willfuly forget, that by the word of God the HEAVENS were of Old” is not a misrepresentation. It is what it says–“heavens were of Old”. |
| Peter Fiske |
Rico Hero, you’re misrepresented the Word of God by falsely interpreting 2 Peter 3, which is a dangerous thing to do as God warns anyone against falsely interpreting His Word (Deuteronomy 4:2-3; Revelation 22:18-19). |
| Rico Hero |
Peter Fiske, I think you mean to say “you have ” Not “you’re”. No, I haven’t falsely interpreted as I do not interpret the plainly written word. If I was to interpret old to mean young, than ,yes, that would be a false interpretation |
| Peter Fiske |
Rico Hero, you can be excused if you can claim ignorance on misinterpreting scripture , whether that ignorance is based on the lack of information or lack of brain power is not for me to determine. However, since you’ve been warned about your blatant Dake false doctrinal misinterpretation, unless you’re completely brain-dead, you’re now in the category of being a false teacher for propagating Satanic-inspired false doctrine, which is all the Gap theory is. A prideful and stubborn attitude in regards to clinging to Dake and his blatant false doctrines is endangering yourself into the same fallen category. You need to be careful as God won’t hold you blameless for misrepresenting His word! |
| Peter Fiske |
Rico Hero, the days of Genesis 1 were just 6/24 hour days.https://creation.com/the-meaning-of-yom-in-genesis-1 |
| Rico Hero |
Peter Fiske ,It is you who needs to be careful for interpreting the “heavens were of old” to mean “the heavens were young”. |
| Peter Fiske |
Rico Hero, your stubbornness is I think a combination of arrogance as well as ignorance. The term from 2 Peter 3:5 that you use, “of old” , is a King James term, which is 400 year old archaic English. https://christiananswers.net/dictionary/kjvwords.htmlEven using the KJV, the term *of old* or long ago, doesn’t specifically mention, nor even passively infer millions of alleged years! It infers an indefinite amount of time which could be hundreds or thousands of years! Only a complete moron, or a wicked false prophet would either ignorantly or deliberately bolt the idea of millions of years into this verse!Using the NIV, 2 Peter 3:5 more accurately reflects the context that Peter meant.”But they deliberately forget that LONG AGO by God’s word the heavens came into being and the earth was formed out of water and by water.” (NIV)The term is meant to convey the original Creation in Genesis 1, which was 6,000 to 7,000 years ago, the pre-Flood world between Creation Week in Genesis 1:1-31 and the year Noah’s Worldwide Flood came, a time frame of 1,656 years. https://answersingenesis.org/bibl…/timeline-for-the-flood/No one in their right mind would think that the pyramids of Egypt, which were built 4600 years ago aren’t ancient , or *of old* if you choose to use archaic KJV English. The events of Genesis 1 or at least 1,500 – 2,000 years before the pyramids were built! I call that ancient , or “of old!” |
| Gary Micheal Epping |
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| Peter Fiske |
Again, the only stupid response is from those who are biblically and scientifically illiterate enough to believe in such false doctrines as a supposed *gap* in Genesis 1 just to appease evolutionists and their false ideas of millions of years. |
| Gary Micheal Epping |
Peter Fiske Come on Peter. Your buddies are laughing at you. |
| Peter Fiske |
Gary, you’re the only one putting up the ignorant jackass gif. As I’ve shown, the majority of self-professed Christians believe in the true account of biblical creation, which teaches six literal 24 hour days and an earth that doesn’t include make-believe “Gap” not found in Scripture, only postulated to suit Genesis compromisers. |
| Gary Micheal Epping |
Peter Fiske You did not read the last gallup poll I posted. Are you dense. Young earth creationists are no longer the leader. Don’t be a sore loser. Accept it and get along with your life. |
| Peter Fiske |
Gary Micheal Epping, you never posted a Gallup poll, all you’ve done is perhaps copy and paste something you’ve read online. |
| Peter Fiske |
Gary, biblical creation is the true and in context narrative of how God created. It doesn’t matter if a majority believes it or not , even though they do , truth is truth! |
| Gary Micheal Epping |
I posted the information as skilled people do. Only people that aren’t knowledgeable like you, post a wild barrage of posts to hide their own ignorance. |
| Peter Fiske |
Gary Micheal Epping, copying and pasting without an objective scholarly source/ citation to back you up isn’t how professional people do it. |
| Gary Micheal Epping |
Peter Fiske I hate to be the bearer of bad news. But, just because you say something is so doesn’t make it so. I have been reading your posts on here and you you have been trying to beat people up with your horse dung. You need to take a course on how to win friends and get along with people. |
| Peter Fiske |
Gary Micheal Epping, I have posted scholarly links backing up my claims, so it’s not me who’s just pulling stuff out of thin air. You haven’t shown a compelling case for the heretical *Gap Theory* or millions of supposed years supposedly found in scripture, when it isn’t. And if you don’t want to use scripture as your starting point, your foundation, then what you’re doing is using fallible secular evolutionary theories as your foundation, and trying to contort scripture to fit those fallacious ideas. That’s not what an objective scholar does, that’s what a emotionally-based , intellectually dishonest biased hack does! |
| Peter Fiske |
Gary, I don’t kowtow to lies and false doctrine, as no Christian should! False doctrines like the Gap Heresy are to be exposed and destroyed using scripture and other lines of objective evidence. People who won’t listen to reason and logic, and objective evidence given to them, or either delusional or ignorant. This form is for debate, I have attempted to stay on topic and on issue, but people like you have decided that since you can’t win the argument, you’re going to try to attack my credibility with ad hominems as a means of trying to resurrect your credibility. |
| Gary Micheal Epping |
You post a multitude of links for sure, but when some one tries to pin you down on exactly what you believe you avoid it. I asked you 5 time to state what you meant by original sin and you never did answer. You are as shifty as a greased pig. |
| Peter Fiske |
Gary Micheal Epping, you’re being dishonest by misrepresenting what I have said I believe. It isn’t rocket science to see that I am promoting the true biblical narrative of Creation , which is found in Genesis 1:1-31. It seems you’re as slippery as a g…See More |
| Gary Micheal Epping |
gap theory can use evidence from scientific research many times for support. Young earth creationists however spend most of their time trying to deny science and its findings and avoid it like the plague. |
| Gary Micheal Epping |
I am tired from traveling the last two days, so I am going to bed. Go ahead and write some more post to yourself if it will make you feel better. |
| Peter Fiske |
Gary, as a science educator, I can say truthfully that you’re either mistaken or deliberately lying about the biblical creation posture. Scientific creationists don’t try to usurp science, that what you call *science* is actually materialistic interpr…See More |
| Peter Fiske |
Gary, just replying to you. If you’re tired why are you even up and responding to this thread in the first place? I thought you said the other day that you were finished here? I guess you proved yourself wrong, huh? If you’re wrong about your own intentions, what else can you be wrong about!? |
| Gary Micheal Epping |
Peter you need to stop talking and read this. This is your great young earth creationists proof. Millennials are probably avoiding young earth creationists because of their lame arguments for supporting their position. We must remember that most prop…See More |
| Peter Fiske |
Gary Micheal Epping ((Young Earth creationists spend their time trying to deny science and avoid it like the plague))Uh huh. That’s why I’ve publicly debated evolutionist academics on the merits of creation versus evolution, including the age of the …See More |
| Gary Micheal Epping |
I have not tried to downplay the gallup poll which was mentioned in my post. And you are wrong that the gallup poll show “Young Earth Creationism – YEC (henceforth known as Biblical Creationism) is the pretty much default position of most Christians.†…See More |
| Peter Fiske |
Gary Micheal Epping, Old-earthism’s premier apologist, Dr. Hugh Ross, whom I think is a nice guy, as I’ve talked to him before, is sincere but sincerely wrong about his supposed old-Earthism apologetics.”To accomplish this harmonization of the Bible …See More |
| Peter Fiske |
Gary, if your claims about Gallup are correct, biblical creation ties in popularity with theistic evolution, then it still beats atheistic Neo-Darwinian evolution. Furthermore, we all know that polling isn’t fool-proof, even polls that are favorable t…See More |
| Peter Fiske |
Gary Micheal Epping ((gap theory can use evidence from scientific research many times for support))Do tell! More like factually-deprived Gappists attempt to use articles written by secular evolutionists, who would literally laugh at this attempted com…See More |
| Gary Micheal Epping |
Peter, since you don’t seem to be able to follow the reference note to the gallup poll. I have provided it for you. There is no way of getting around the results of the latest gallup poll. Young earth creationism is not preferred any more today than o…See More |
| Gary Micheal Epping |
Also, here here a link to the former YEC follower, who gives a description of what followers are endoctrinated with. Daniel Banks, who said there were two things he was taught; “Firstly, that there is a vast conspiracy within the global scientific com…See More |
| Gary Micheal Epping |
Peter you said YEC use good evidence to support their findings. The link below seems dispute that. Creationists argue that if God wishes to create things with an appearance of age, then He will do so. Explaining potential problems with creationism by …See More |
| Peter Fiske |
Gary Micheal Epping, thanks for finally posting links. I see that you’ve taken my advice and started doing it the professional way. Good for you! 👌👠|
| Peter Fiske |
Gary Micheal Epping, Timothy Heaton of South Dakota is a theistic evolutionist. So now you’re enlisting the useful idiots that atheist Eugenie Scott of the anti-Biblical implied theistic evolutions to be, as a so called source? You do realize that billions of years are only needed to do away with Biblical Creation, with any divine and in the process?https://creation.com/time-great-enabler |
| Peter Fiske |
Gary Micheal Epping, Timothy Heaton is an evolutionist who doesn’t believe in the first book of the Bible, Genesis, as real history. This gives him an Anti-Christian, Anti-Biblical bias. His bias will therefore taint his analysis, and skew his results….See More |
| Peter Fiske |
Gary Micheal Epping, BioLogos is a known theistic evolutionist site, therefore they have a pro-evolution bias, and a theological desire to unite what they erroneously deem as irrefutable science, which is nothing more than presumptive evolution , and to make the historical narrative of Genesis 1-11 to somehow fit with that view. #GenesisCompromisehttps://creation.com/biologos-evolutionary-syncretism |
| Gary Micheal Epping |
Peter Fiske The article I posted had nothing to do with theistic evolution, which I don’t adhere to. Did you not read the article? It deals with YEC proponents who use the theory of appearance of age to explain away different observable phenomena in nature that are often used by scientists to support the idea of an old earth. |
| Gary Micheal Epping |
Peter Fiske The article on BioLogos was by Daniel Banks, who described the endoctrination that takes place when studying under YEC. Did you not read it? He tells of its bias against the use of scientific evidence to date the heavens and earth. He also ditched that group to study elsewhere. I thought his views are very revealing of what YEC teaches. |
| Gary Micheal Epping |
Peter Fiske What do you think of the new gallup poll results that show YEC is on the decline. |
| Gary Micheal Epping |
Peter Fiske I adhere to old age creationism, and believe in a literal interpretation of Genesis. If Gen 1:1-2 were not included in the Bible, then you and I would likely think along the same lines. But, those verses are there, and they can’t be deleted in any explanation of creation. They precede what happened on Day 1 of the re-creation. |
| Gary Micheal Epping |
Peter Fiske Whether you like his position or not, Hugh Ross does a good job of describing the old earth creationism position. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MndHq5PSq24 |
| Peter Fiske |
Gary, I don’t think much of it, as I told you polling isn’t infallible, even if the statistics are favorable to ones in this case my viewpoint. Objective truth isn’t determined by majority opinion or consensus but by the objective evidence. The objecti…See More |
| Peter Fiske |
Gary Micheal Epping, it is impossible to simultaneously hold an old-Earthism position and believe in a literal Genesis Creation. Reason is because these two positions are mutually exclusive and contradictory, in spite of what the false prophet Finis Dake claimed. The Gap theory is a damnable heresy! |
| Gary Micheal Epping |
According to definitions I have seen, both gap creationism and progressive creationism hold to the idea of six literal 24 hour days according to Genesis 1, the same as YEC. And that is what I believe. |
| Peter Fiske |
Gary Micheal Epping even Satan himself quoted (out of context) Psalm 91 to Jesus in the wilderness.https://carm.org/what-did-jesus-say-to-satan-when-he-was… |
| Peter Fiske |
Gary Micheal Epping, you can believe whatever you like, but it is erroneous false doctrine that you mysteriously cling to. It is unscriptural, and not supported by any objective scientific evidence. |
| Peter Fiske |
Gary Micheal Epping, there is no indoctrination Biblical Creation , indoctrination into unbiblical ideas takes place when one reads Dake’s heretical commentaries, and then does the mental gymnastics to try to make sense of these vacuous and counter-intuitive false ideas. |
| Peter Fiske |
Gary Micheal Epping, the term *Re-creation* is heretical, since there was only one creation that God’s Word speaks up, and that’s in Genesis 1:1-31, which means that you are adding unbiblical content into scripture.Where in the Bible can you fit supp…See More |
| Peter Fiske |
Gary Micheal Epping, Biblical creationist bias against the use of scientific evidence? That’s certainly is ridiculous since we all have the same evidence, but we do have a bias against is the evolutionary philosophical paradigm of billions of supposed years added on the objective evidence, when it’s completely unnecessary and unwarranted. |
| Peter Fiske |
Gary Micheal Epping, Hugh Ross is a likeable guy, but his demeanor doesn’t mean that his skewing of scripture in order to make Genesis fit with his old-Earthism false doctrine is magically going to win him special favors with God , who tells people like him in Deuteronomy 4:2 and Revelation 22:18,19, not to add or take away from scripture.https://creation.com/refuting-compromise-refutation-of… |
| Rico Hero |
Peter Fiske , snip …See More |
| Gary Micheal Epping |
Master Peter, time after time, has given it his best shot to knock his opponents to the ground. However, Old Age Creationism has withstood the attack and is thereby declared the winner. https://gfycat.com/MessySmoothBigmouthbass |
| Peter Fiske |
Old Earthism [Gap heresy, theistic evolution, Day-Age heresy, etc.] is a lie as much as abortion isn’t murder and there are such things as gay Christians is. The only reason these ridiculous ideas gain traction is because they are energized by Satan and sucked in by gullible people who give this false doctrine oxygen to survive. |
| Peter Fiske |
Gary Michael Epping, aren’t you supposed to be a PhD? You still haven’t dealt with my scientific debunking of your supposed evidence for the Gap heresy and old-Earthism in general. Where’s your scholarly response? |
| Peter Fiske |
Gary Micheal Epping aren’t you supposed to be a PhD? You still haven’t dealt with my scientific debunking of your supposed evidence for the Gap heresy and old-Earthism in general. Where’s your *scholarly* response to the problem old earthers face concerning soft/organic dinosaur tissue, the lack of evidence for a geologic column, and the inherent problems of radiometric dating? |
| Rico Hero |
lol |
| Ricky Grimsley |
Wlell I know people who think the sun revolves around the earth soooo…….. |
| Peter Fiske |
They probably believe in the Gap Theory as well Ricky. It takes the same level of scriptural and scientific ignorance to believe in a flat stationary Earth then it does the Gap myth. |
| Peter Fiske |
Rico Hero, there’s nothing funny about believing in and propagating ridiculous false ideas that aren’t found in Scripture. It only makes those who fall gullibly for these false ideas look stupid. |
| Rico Hero |
Peter , I see you havent responded to my last post and question, snip 4“Where were you when I laid the foundations of the earth?Tell Me, if you have understanding….See More |
| Peter Fiske |
Rico Hero, Job 38 has nothing to do with a supposed *Gap*, since the Angels were created early in Creation Week , sometime on the first or second Day (Ezekiel 28:13-15). Genesis 1:1 and 2 doesn’t describe the Earth becoming anything , the “bohu vav toh…See More |
| Ricky Grimsley |
Nice speculation pete |
| Rico Hero |
Peter bohu vav tohu is not a disjunctive and day one started with light , not darkness. “And there was evening, and there was morning—the fourth day.” You also did not answer the question snip Or do you believe that God was the light for the first 3 days and stars created in day 4? |
| Peter Fiske |
Ricky, there is no speculation, it’s straight in context literal interpretation of scripture. The way Genesis compromisers like Dake get around the problem of the creation of Satan and the angels is by literal “smoke and mirrors” , completely mangling …See More |
| Ricky Grimsley |
Dake took the scriptures more literally than anyone. |
| Peter Fiske |
Rico, yes “tohu vav bohu” is indeed a disjunctive. https://creation.com/an-atypical-atheist-plus-just-how…… See More |
| Peter Fiske |
Ricky, Dake misinterpreted scripture in order to fulfill a Satanic agenda that was using him as a pawn to spread unbiblical nonsense in the form of Biblical teaching to the low-information masses within the body of Christ. Among Dake’s many ridiculous …See More |
| Peter Fiske |
Rico Hero, do you even know what the darkness in terms of a lack of visible light actually? The volume of space time contains electromagnetic [EM] radiation , of which visible light is only less than 1% of the entire EM spectrum. Nothing is truly dark…See More |
| Rico Hero |
Peter , h8414. תֹּהוּ ṯôhû; from an unused root meaning to lie waste; a desolation (of surface),h0922. בֹּהוּ ḇôhû; from an unused root (meaning to be empty); a vacuity, i.e. (superficially) an undistinguishable ruin: — emptiness, void. You also did not answer the question, Peter! Or do you believe that God was the light for the first 3 days and stars created in day 4? |
| Peter Fiske |
Rico Hero, please quote a citation and copy and paste a scholarly quote proving your point of view. Otherwise my citations stand and you’re in violation of adding to and taking away from God’s word with your Genesis compromise. |
| Peter Fiske |
Rico Hero, electromagnetic radiation including visible light, was created on Day One. Light bearers were created on day 4, that being the Sun and the Moon. https://answersingenesis.org/…/did-god-really-create…/ |
| Rico Hero |
Peter, why you keep posting these links? Cant you do your own work? As for “scholarly quote’ it was scholars who worked on Strongs concordance. As for “light bearers ” on day 4 is absurd and against scripture in Job that says they were already in existence when God laid the earths foundation. |
| Ricky Grimsley |
See man that’s why we can’t have a conversation. Since you you attribute a different view to Satan.having a conversation with you is pointless. Enjoy your overinflated view of yourself and may God be with you when you try to witness to someone who made it past the third grade. |
| Peter Fiske |
Ricky Grimsley we can agree on the fact that God doesn’t lie (Romans 3:4) and that He elevates his Word above even His name (Psalm 138:2), which means there can only be one set of objective facts that can be part of the true biblical canon. That means …See More |
| Peter Fiske |
Rico Hero, you are lying when you say that Job 38 claims that the Angels were created before God created everything during Creation Week in Genesis 1.Where’s the specific scripture that says that? Where’s the objective Hebrew figure of speech that defines that specifically? |
| Peter Fiske |
Rico Hero ((it was scholars who worked on Strong’s concordance))Yeah, and no where does Strong’s Concordance indicate the Angels were created before Genesis 1. |
| Ricky Grimsley |
It says they sang when god created. They had to be first. |
| Gary Micheal Epping |
Peter Fiske I guess you think Billy Graham was lying when he said, “that the angels were witnesses to the creation of the world, which indicates they were created long before that great event. God asked Job, “Where were you when I laid the earth’s foundation … and all the angels shouted for joy?†(Job 38:4,7).” https://billygraham.org/…/when-were-the-angels-created-3/ |
| Rico Hero |
Not only Angels, but stars were also in existence when God laid the the earth’s foundation. snip. 7 When the morning stars sang together,And all the sons of God shouted for joy? ( Job 38). This link to hear stars singhttp://thespiritscience.net/…/nasa-discovers-planets…/ |
| Peter Fiske |
Ricky Grimsley, here’s Job 38:4-7 (NIV)…”Where were you when I laid the earth’s foundation? Tell me, if you understand….See More |
| Peter Fiske |
Gary Micheal Epping, while most of us at admire Billy Graham for his zeal and 2 Reasons endless dedication in spreading the Gospel of Jesus Christ throughout the world, there was some theological positions that he was just waffling on. [Graham, B., Just As I Am: The Autobiography of Billy Graham, HarperCollins Publishers, NY, USA, p. 138, 1997.] https://creation.com/the-slippery-slide-to-unbelief-a… |
| Peter Fiske |
Rico Hero, *spirit science* is a pseudo-scientific crackpot that teaches new age false doctrine , just as Dake teaches pseudo-Christian false doctrine.”Spirit Science is a video series on an Internet website that explores spirituality from a humanist…See More |
| Rico Hero |
Peter, you reject the plainly written word of God that says the stars were singing when God laid the earth’s foundation and you willfully forget the plain word of God regarding a 24 hour day. According to the bible day one started with light and …See More |
| Peter Fiske |
Rico Hero, your previous post told me everything I need to know about your level of theological knowledge. You went to a crackpot new age video series , so-called *spirit science* , to try to prove a scripture taken out of context. Secondly you quote…See More |
| Peter Fiske |
Rico Hero, the very idea that a day in Genesis is bounded by an evening and morning indicates that the contextual meaning is that of a 24-hour day.https://creation.com/the-meaning-of-yom-in-genesis-1 |
| Peter Fiske |
Rico Hero, it’s you who have misplaced zeal and arrogance as you won’t take instruction on evidence presented to you that contradicts your blind allegiance to the heretical Gap Theory. |
| Marc Jackson |
Good point Rico Hero Now Peter Fiske that with the help of Joe Absher and others we have resolve some facebook related problems with this group I would like to take you on this post. First off, the claim of the origin of gap theory is FALSE. But before we begin are you the same as Pete Fiske who at one point was banned from all facebook groups? |
| Peter Fiske |
I’m here to debate issues relating to sound Christian theology, which the Gap theory is not, and after having heard it taught as an adolescent I drifted into agnosticism and evolutionism , and a series of bad life choices that set me back 15 years. I c…See More |
| Marc Jackson |
Peter Fiske you didnt answer my question Are you one and the same with the old Pete Fiske active in this group years ago? |
| Peter Fiske |
Troy Day, it’s not relevant to the discussion. What difference does it make? |
| Marc Jackson |
Actually it is. Establishing pattern and also most importantly in internet discussions NOT repeating same old arguments. We conclude that you are then one and the same with Pete Fiske before we start dismantling your so called arguments on ambiguity and lapsus non-knowledge |
| Peter Fiske |
Troy Day, just what do you consider *repeating the same old arguments*. My topic of Interest is refuting false arguments used by self-professed Christians relating to the actual true Biblical context related to the age of the Earth as implied in Genesi…See More |
| Joe Absher |
I wasn’t following this post Mr Troy Day There were 3 threads on the same thing at the same by our brother Mr Fisk. I couldn’t tell what was going on so I walked away. And I’m truly sorry I got pulled into the political controversy post denouncing Chri…See More |
| Marc Jackson |
Yes bro Joe we will sort through that very shortly. IF bro Peter Fiske is one and the same with our old friend Pete Fiske he is of the habit of cross posting and mass spamming with the one and the same posts. He will correct his behavior and normalize …See More |
| Marc Jackson |
Peter Fiske Your claims on the history of the theory is simply wrong. GAP concept is attributed to the 17th-century Dutch Arminian theologian Simon Episcopius. Gap creationism became increasingly attractive near the end of the 18th and first half o…See More |
| Peter Fiske |
Troy, I’m not making any claims that can’t be backed up with historical and biblical evidence. The main reason you and others on this site cling to Dake and his heretical view of Genesis is because of tradition , since Dake has been Pentecostalism’s va…See More |
| Marc Jackson |
Peter Fiske your historical information is inaccurate A.J. Bible has done some work for Dake Publishers and can confirm perhaps that Dake was not the first one to come up with the theory neither the one who popularized it. In the United States it was …See More |
| Gary Micheal Epping |
The first theologian who talked about a gap was probably St. Justin Martyr. He was born around 100 AD. St. Justin Martyr supposes an indefinite period between the Creation and the first ordering of all things. This puts the idea of gap creationism 1,70…See More |
| Joe Absher |
“And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,And to rule over the day and over the night…See More |
| Gary Micheal Epping |
For believing Jews, the story of the Big Bang resonates perfectly with the story of creation told in Genesis. Professor Nathan Aviezer said. “Without addressing who or what caused it, the mechanics of the creation process in the Big Bang match the Gene…See More |
| Gary Micheal Epping |
Pope Francis recently said, “The Big Bang, that today is considered to be the origin of the world, does not contradict the creative intervention of God; on the contrary, it requires it … When we read in Genesis the account of creation [we are] in dange…See More |
| Marc Jackson |
Gary I dont think Justin Martyr spoke of gap theory per se but there were other early authors who very well did so |
| Gary Micheal Epping |
Most Pentecostals today typically adhere to three views (young earth creation, old earth creation, evolutionary creation). Since atheism and deism are incompatible with Christianity, thinking believers invariably reject deistic and atheistic evolution….See More |
| Marc Jackson |
Peter Fiske we;ve discussed this with Ricky Grimsley before. THE PRE-ADAMIC RACE GAP THEORY EXPLAINS IT ALL Without it you cannot explain the following in the Bible 1. Where lost souls come from?…See More |
Varnel Watson
its somewhere out there Gary Micheal Epping RichardAnna Boyce Michael Ellis Carter Jr.
Michael Ellis Carter Jr.
Troy Day if it’s not out there there are a lot issues that we need to discuss. More importantly I think we need to address the creation story and we will probably
Answer our own questions.
Varnel Watson
hey Pete Fiske is this something you still concern with OR doing research and your blogs posts on?
Pete Fiske
Are you still into compromising Genesis with these unbiblical [https://creation.com/pre-adamic-man-were-there-human-beings-on-earth-before-adam] myths, Troy Day?
Varnel Watson
Pete Fiske how else would you EXPLAIN these 10 ? http://www.pentecostaltheology.com/10-things-in-the-bible-that-cannot-be-explained-without-the-pre-adamic-race-gap-theory/ YOU simply CANT …
Pete Fiske
Troy Day, twisting scripture and history to make Genesis compromise reputable in the church, in a fruitless attempt to placate evolutionists is quite pathetic.
Pete Fiske
What 2 creation stories
Troy Day? There’s only one!
https://creation.com/genesis-contradictions
Varnel Watson
Pete Fiske IDK that what you are saying is true What is the source? .Does it seem credible?
Pete Fiske
Age of the earth Troy Day? Dude, I teach community college physics and higher mathematics, there’s a chapter in the physics text we use on radiometric dating (do you even know what that is?), of which radiocarbon dating is but one of many. Conceptually they’re all the same, that is the all operate under the same principle which is dating igneous or metamorphic rock samples adjacent to a sedimentary rock fossil deposits. You have parent and daughter elements within the stratified igneous rock and the entirety of the process is based on known nuclear decay rates, like from potassium (K) to argon (Ar). Carbon 14 (c14) deteriorates into nitrogen 14 (n14) via the changing of a single neutron into a proton and the subsequent release of an electron.
When 50% of the c14 has decayed into n14, one half-life takes place. That half-life is 5,730 years (assuming a sterile and isolated environment for the deteriorating specimen. C14 dating only goes back 10 halflives (57,300 years [theoretically]) before all of the measurable c14 is gone! Why am I telling you all these minute details? Well, when dating diamonds which are supposedly hundreds of millions of years old, we find measurable radiocarbon (c14) in them [https://creation.com/diamonds-a-creationists-best-friend], that’s not supposed to be there if those diamonds are millions of supposed years old!
The upshot of what I’m saying is that the entire paradigm of billions of years evolutionary deep time is based on supposed infallibility of the 20 or so various radiometric dating techniques, most of whom operate on far larger halflives (like potassium-argon dating) than radiocarbon dating does. All radiometric dating techniques depend on some fundamental assumptions, one crucial one being that all igneous rock specimens dated are thermodynamically isolated systems. NOTHING in nature is an isolated system, all such systems are open (thermodynamically speaking) and therefore subject to water and heat leaching [http://www.cs.unc.edu/~plaisted/ce/dating2.html] which skews the parent-daughter mineral ratios
Caleb Matthew Helm
Just out of curiosity, why do so many Pentecostals bash the idea of preadamic race when even the Jews almost collectively agree there was? Their lineage are the ones who wrote the Old Testament in the first place and they have lots of historical canon that matches with this belief.
Varnel Watson
Caleb Matthew Helm MOST Pentecostals DO NOT bash the idea of preadamic race YES even the Jews almost collectively agree there was BUT Pete Fiske dont really care about that JUST young earth AG
Thomas Henry Jr.
A preadamic race would contradict scripture
Thomas Henry Jr.
All ten points are refuted when you examine creation week correctly.
Varnel Watson
Thomas Henry Jr. and you say that again and again but NOwhere do you explain them in you own sci-fi fictional way – pls put some meat on your theological skeleton soon
Thomas Henry Jr.
Troy Day i don’t do sci-fi when explaining scripture. I will post what I’m writing in my book later. Not at my office!
Varnel Watson
Thomas Henry Jr. WELL now wouldnt you agree that you havent really offered any theological response here thus far?
Thomas Henry Jr.
Troy Day I actually have. Genesis 1 when properly exegeted only supported Creation and no gap!
Varnel Watson
Thomas Henry Jr. and again I hear you saying all this BUT I have no reason to believe you because you have shown absolutely NO proof to your theoretix … until then
Shane Bellamy
If the earth was already in existence having had a pre-adamic race as you suggest then why did God create the sun and the stars afterward in the fourth day? Wouldn’t have had the sun already existed for the pre-adamic race?
And was the pre-adamic race not originally created in Gods image and after his likeness? That God had to create them again?
Robert W. Graves
Grammatical sins are stubborn, but they can be overcome. OUT, in Jesus’s name. ?
Varnel Watson
and again I hear you saying that BUT I dont see you explaining any of the TOP 10 above?
Varnel Watson
Shane Bellamy this is a GREAT start of a productive discussion but FIRST how else would you explaining any of the TOP 10 above?
Varnel Watson
Isara Mo this answers your question
Is GENESIS 1:1 reference to “THE EARTH” meant for planet earth only or the whole solar system, or the vast visible universe or the unknown beyond which we have no knowledge of ?..
The verse says this // in the beginning GOD created the heavens(Plural) and the EARTH(Singular) //..
The creation narration account indicates that GOD created things and us men HERE on planet EARTH..
#tarabeing responded to your question with this BUT gave NO further explanation of the TOP 10 above
I am not kidddig , I got the answers for alll of this questions , it is written inside the Bible and some revelation , everything is in the Bible but now dayas we hardly can find all the correct letters and the words in the Bible. telling the truth , I have nothing to loose anymore ministrywise because I have given to God’s hand 3 years ago .
If I told you all Jesus is comming soon and I know the exataly day you all will tell me I have lost my mind , and it is written in the Bible .
Shane Bellamy
You say you know the day but won’t tell us?!!
Varnel Watson
Shane Bellamy is each day 24 hrs – what do you think
Shane Bellamy
Troy Day no not exactly 24 hours!!
Varnel Watson
Shane Bellamy yes yes exactly 24 hrs or else
Shane Bellamy
Troy Day ok
Varnel Watson
Shane Bellamy HOLD ON – you are asking me about the quote of #tarabeing
+++
I am not kidddig , I got the answers for alll of this questions , it is written inside the Bible and some revelation , everything is in the Bible but now dayas we hardly can find all the correct letters and the words in the Bible. telling the truth , I have nothing to loose anymore ministrywise because I have given to God’s hand 3 years ago .
If I told you all Jesus is comming soon and I know the exataly day you all will tell me I have lost my mind , and it is written in the Bible .
+++
I GOT NO CLUE where #tarabeing got all this and when is the day I simply cited the comment and marked that its not mine 🙂 NO I dont know when Jesus is coming – Dear GOD I wish I did Isara Mo Jim Price but I Would never tell Joe Absher
Shane Bellamy
Troy Day OK so it’s not you that’s fine. Do you have explanations for your 10 questions?
Joe Absher
the only reason people study eshatology is so they know how much time they have to goof off . and the only reason people teach eschtalogy is because people will pay good money to goof off .
Shane Bellamy
Troy Day can you provide biblical references to the answers of your own 10 questions? And before we attempt to answer you shells give us the answers first.
1. Where lost souls come from?
2. Where the demons come from?
3. When did Satan fall from the Heavens?
4. How did 1/3 of the angels fall with Satan?
5. Why do the Bible tells us TWO creation stories?
6. Why was earth created shapeless and void (this brings to perspective flat earth vs a globe as well)?
7. Why do the Bible tells us TWO flood narratives?
8. Age of earth?
9. The disappearing of the dinosaurs and why where no dinosaurs in Noah’s ark?
10. The whole doctrine of Original sin and its coming into man’s flesh?
Varnel Watson
YES Shane Bellamy their BIBLICAL answer is in the GEN 1 GAP theory – all explained AND I am pretty sure you cannot explain them without Gen 1:1-2
Thomas Henry Jr.
Troy Day i disagree and made a post on it already
Shane Bellamy
Troy Day saying “pretty sure” isn’t entirely convincing.
Shane Bellamy
Some answers to your questions.
1. Where lost souls come from?
Don’t believe their is any such thing except for the souls that will end up in hell afterward.
2. Where the demons come from?
They were once angels. now they are ex-communicated banned from heaven because they left their first estate to follow a different rebellious leader. Kind of similar to Koran’s rebellion in Numbers.
3. When did Satan fall from the Heavens?
I believe he fell not long after creation week. Adam and Eve has a bit of time on earth (maybe a couple of days our maybe a couple of weeks) before they sinned.
4. How did 1/3 of the angels fall with Satan?
They chose to follow Lucifer. They were either deceived or just like Lucifer choose to rebel.
5. Why do the Bible tells us TWO creation stories?
It doesn’t, it just gives a different focus on the same thing.
The first story is the sum up of Creation and the second story just focuses mainly on Adam and Eve.
6. Why was earth created shapeless and void (this brings to perspective flat earth vs a globe as well)?
Simply said there was no order as yet no system and no fruit was yet produced so God goes through the steps to create the world for His purpose, the world would have form once we were created and we use our God given talents to have dominion, produce fruitful works & create disciples that is, what it is to multiply. Genesis 1:28.
To subdue was to bring it to order.
To replenish was to make full. At the time KJV was written replenish did not mean fill again.
Make full is to fill the existing empty space that had been created as formless and void to full.
7. Why do the Bible tells us TWO flood narratives?
If I gather right what you are saying, the first mention of water covering the earth was just a covering, a canopy and it’s just the first period of the earth that was made for the antediluvians which was to break come Noah’s flood.
8. Age of earth?
God can create a universe that appears old. Also He can create the starlight to stretch to earth in faster then speed of light time at least in creation week.
In the same way Adam & Eve would have had a belly button.
9. The disappearing of the dinosaurs and why where no dinosaurs in Noah’s ark?
I think some dinosaurs survived the flood by boarding the ark and were later hunted by men for sport and food causing an extinction like we have today with some known creatures. It’s also likely that these dinosaurs were kept in captivity in strong cages and breading was little so they died out after the flood. The crocodile could be a surviving remnant.
10. The whole doctrine of Original sin and its coming into man’s flesh?
I’ll answer this later
Varnel Watson
Shane Bellamy Two different events, creation and formation. The difference between creation in the first chapter and formation in the second chapter. The nations are the natural creation of different races that Adam was taken out of and formed a spirit man.
NOW we do have ALL 10 in different posts if youd like us to talk about them individually Some of the comments you made were already made and largely refuted under those individual discussions I dont mind opening them up again because I like your serious approach
AS to your proofs Even if I give you a free pass on #1 we will get stuck on #2 How do you explain the fall of satan with NO gap theory? @rico hero and A.J. Bible will right then check you with gap theory and the Flood of Lucifer
Shane Bellamy
Troy Day don’t need a gap theory! Satan fell with lightening from heaven after men was created in my opinion. He was created as part of the host of heaven from v1 even if there was a period of time after verse one, it doesn’t matter. At some point Satan fell to earth after the creation order soon afterward and came to earth.
Varnel Watson
Shane Bellamy WHEN exactly did he do that?
Shane Bellamy
Troy Day when God declared His creation , Lucifer had not yet rebelled.
I firmly believe that Lucifer rebelled after the creation of mankind.
When Lucifer could see that men were created to worship God, it was at trust point that iniquity was found in him.
Steve Losee
this might be evidence, but it’s hardly proof.
Varnel Watson
Steve Losee just to come out of the blue and say its no proof dont work to well as a scholarly examination What proof do you have this evidence is NO proof?
here is the evidence https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLEpr4aa9rk9pG3M32TJhtxWoiifxbAPeN
here its historical development from a scholarly theologically development into an actual Biblical doctrine
https://brill.com/view/book/9789004246508/B9789004246508-s004.xml
were you or Shane Bellamy even aware of these before jumping into rushed conclusions about its Biblical origin ?
Varnel Watson
a comment which Tara Sing Bhandari posted reads like this
I am not kidddig , I got the answers for alll of this questions , it is written inside the Bible and some revelation , everything is in the Bible but now dayas we hardly can find all the correct letters and the words in the Bible. telling the truth , I have nothing to loose anymore ministrywise because I have given to God’s hand 3 years ago .
If I told you all Jesus is comming soon and I know the exataly day you all will tell me I have lost my mind , and it is written in the Bible .
Tara Sing Bhandari is now part of our group and can explain WHAT was being meant in the comment AND give us the answers of ALL these questions at once
Tara Sing Bhandari
Troy Day Truth is like this amazing grace how sweet the sound ……. taste like salt
Varnel Watson
Tara Sing Bhandari how do you see this in the context of your post? How does it answer the questions? What is meant by your earlier comment that you can/not answer all
Tara Sing Bhandari
Troy Day do you think it is possible to make someone understand all the answers in a comment, or it is wise way to give glory for the revolution that God grants to someone?
Lyndsey Dunn
There is as much proof for Preadamic Race as there is for Aliens.
Varnel Watson
well the BIBLE actually talks about pre-adamits and is way more specific than on UFOs which mentions as well
Lyndsey Dunn
Troy Day to indirectly “mention” and to directly cite are very different. There are no direct references or arguments made in scripture for any of these fringe topics. Fun to talk about and speculate, But let’s be careful what we call proof!
Varnel Watson
Lyndsey Dunn Ezek 1 – it flies Go ahead and identify it While pre-Adamitics have over 25 Biblical proofs
Lyndsey Dunn
Troy Day Ezekiel 1 ? . 25 proofs ??♂️. You mean indirect reference that could be interpreted as such if approached with the preconceptions of the preceding theory. Your loose definition of biblical proof makes room for many unfounded arguments in scripture for which we do not allow such unprecedented statements in orthodox theology.
Varnel Watson
Lyndsey Dunn CAN YOU address each of the proofs I’ve presented in this post before we continue with the talk pls? https://www.facebook.com/640123439376008/posts/2796151727106491