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Question: “What is predestination? Is predestination biblical?”
Answer: Romans 8:29-30 tells us, “For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the likeness of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified.” Ephesians 1:5 and 11 declare, “He predestined us to be adopted as his sons through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will…In him we were also chosen, having been predestined according to the plan of him who works out everything in conformity with the purpose of his will.” Many people have a strong hostility to the doctrine of predestination. However, predestination is a biblical doctrine. The key is understanding what predestination means, biblically.
The words translated “predestined” in the Scriptures referenced above are from the Greek word proorizo, which carries the meaning of “determine beforehand,” “ordain,” “to decide upon ahead of time.” So, predestination is God determining certain things to occur ahead of time. What did God determine ahead of time? According to Romans 8:29-30, God predetermined that certain individuals would be conformed to the likeness of His Son, be called, justified, and glorified. Essentially, God predetermines that certain individuals will be saved. Numerous scriptures refer to believers in Christ being chosen (Matthew 24:22, 31; Mark 13:20, 27; Romans 8:33, 9:11, 11:5-7, 28; Ephesians 1:11; Colossians 3:12; 1 Thessalonians 1:4; 1 Timothy 5:21; 2 Timothy 2:10; Titus 1:1; 1 Peter 1:1-2, 2:9; 2 Peter 1:10). Predestination is the biblical doctrine that God in His sovereignty chooses certain individuals to be saved.
The most common objection to the doctrine of predestination is that it is unfair. Why would God choose certain individuals and not others? The important thing to remember is that no one deserves to be saved. We have all sinned (Romans 3:23), and are all worthy of eternal punishment (Romans 6:23). As a result, God would be perfectly just in allowing all of us to spend eternity in hell. However, God chooses to save some of us. He is not being unfair to those who are not chosen, because they are receiving what they deserve. God’s choosing to be gracious to some is not unfair to the others. No one deserves anything from God; therefore, no one can object if he does not receive anything from God. An illustration would be a man randomly handing out money to five people in a crowd of twenty. Would the fifteen people who did not receive money be upset? Probably so. Do they have a right to be upset? No, they do not. Why? Because the man did not owe anyone money. He simply decided to be gracious to some.
If God is choosing who is saved, doesn’t that undermine our free will to choose and believe in Christ? The Bible says that we have the choice—all who believe in Jesus Christ will be saved (John 3:16; Romans 10:9-10). The Bible never describes God rejecting anyone who believes in Him or turning away anyone who is seeking Him (Deuteronomy 4:29). Somehow, in the mystery of God, predestination works hand-in-hand with a person being drawn by God (John 6:44) and believing unto salvation (Romans 1:16). God predestines who will be saved, and we must choose Christ in order to be saved. Both facts are equally true. Romans 11:33 proclaims, “Oh, the depth of the riches of the wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable his judgments, and his paths beyond
* My question is what do you all believe?
John Kissinger [08/22/2015 10:53 AM]
Predestination to WHAT?
Timothy D McCune [08/22/2015 2:35 PM]
Salvation
David Lavoie [08/22/2015 2:55 PM]
HOLD ON! 🙂 … What “if” We Veiw the statement “through Jesus Christ” as the idicative part of eph.vs. 5 and Us as Gentile And Jews. AFOREHAND. Now Wait a Minute,.. WITH the Sentence structure “could” that work?
And
“if” So, ..
Then ..
Perhaps All The Warngs _xhortations And parables Could be seen as MORE THAN JUST FOR…
Since
his Forknowledge precedes our Responce To His Drawing.
And Predestining, At Least in Rom.
Timothy D McCune [08/22/2015 2:59 PM]
David Lavoie I don’t understand your post, please elaborate.
David Lavoie [08/22/2015 3:36 PM]
“IF” we look at Paul and his life’s work of explaining The Mystery of Christ ( The Summation of Humanity in Him) to both Jew And Gentile alike Could it make since That The “Us” He speaks of in Eph.1:5 is Jew And Gentile, And Through JESUS CHRIST As The Forordained Method of GOD’S Adoption?
WORK ON IT A LITTLE, It’s just a Different Lens.
Timothy D McCune [08/22/2015 3:54 PM]
I believe we are the “us” the Gentiles that Paul talks about.
David Lavoie [08/22/2015 4:02 PM]
All gentiles, and All Jews, AND THE predestining was “Through” Jesus Christ ..
🙂
John Kissinger [08/22/2015 4:07 PM]
Timothy D McCune the text does not say “salvation” BUT “predestined to be conformed to the likeness of his Son”
Jessica Michelle [08/22/2015 4:19 PM]
John Kissinger [08/22/2015 4:26 PM]
yeah, we should stop preaching from the dictionary and start preaching from the BIBLE “predestined to be conformed’ sure sounds like something that happens to saved people only. Unsaved cannot and do not get conformed to the likeness of the Son
Timothy D McCune [08/22/2015 7:22 PM]
Thanks , however I’m wondering if people here believe that Christians were predestined to be saved.
David Lavoie [08/22/2015 7:52 PM]
I Think All people Were Ceptin Those Few He’s hardened
His Word has many Refrences To His Glory being seen and understood, About His Love For All, About His Sacrifice For All.
Jesus Even Said That He did’nt Come To Condemn.
David Lavoie [08/22/2015 8:15 PM]
But God does Work Aforehand and probably knows Everything. 🙂 ..
So, It says people are condemned for loving Darkness Rather Than Light. John 3
I don’t Know How God could presuppose To Do something with Me And Then Do it. BUT he Does.
Never just MAKES IT HAPPEN, BUT WORKS TOWARDS MY OBEDIENCE, INTIMATLY, KNOWING EVERYTHING.
Man Must Choose.
Men And Brethren, What Must We Do?
Repent, and Be Baptised in The Name of Jesus Christ for the Remission of Sins, And You shall Recieve The Gift of The Holy Spirit.
For This PROMICE Is To You And to Your Children And to All Who are Afar off, As many as The Lord our God Shall Call.
He Calls,.. TRUE… But we are taught Encouraged and Exhorted to respond. ACTS 2:37&38
And with many other words He kept on exhorting Them. (Acts2.40) EXHORTATION IS A PERSUASIVE AND EMPASSIONED, Savory Plea to The will.
of Course God knows,.Ahead of Time,… 🙂
That’s Why He Equips and Sends.
Timothy D McCune [08/22/2015 8:18 PM]
I appreciate your response David Lavoie it’s great talking to a Brother on the other side of the world.
David Lavoie [08/22/2015 8:22 PM]
?
Timothy D McCune [08/22/2015 8:24 PM]
I’m in America your in Bulgaria , right? And your a Christian , right?
David Lavoie [08/22/2015 8:26 PM]
nah, I’m from The Dalles.
But I’m def. A Christian. :7
David Lavoie [08/22/2015 8:30 PM]
CHEMECITA’S JUST OFF I5. and I worked At the T.C. THRIFT STORE THEIR ON Portland Rd.
Timothy D McCune [08/22/2015 9:43 PM]
Oh sorry I must off seen that on someone’s profile and got them mixed up.
John Kissinger [08/22/2015 10:52 PM]
In general, Pentecostal / Charismatics are Wesleyan / Arminian believe in free will. Hence, they do not consider to be chosen-frozen as people are able to fall off and backslide from the faith. Furthermore, it has been pointed out in previous discussions in the group that Calvinistic systems are mostly incompatible with classic Pentecostal pneumatology, sotirology, eschatology and even christology http://www.pentecostaltheology.com/why-am-i-not-a-calvinist/
David Lavoie [08/22/2015 11:09 PM]
Both of Their Thinkin Can Go To Far.
Sola Scriptura And Norm Nomative Normata.
The Bible is the only Work That Norms itself.
John Kissinger [08/23/2015 4:11 PM]
Rom.8 predestined to be conformed Ephesians 1 predestined us to be adopted – nothing about predestined for salvation in these texts
Ray E Horton
Not as Calvinists interpret it.All are predestined for salvation, but not all will choose to believe and receive.
Mike Partyka
Ray E Horton Predestined for salvation by God but you don’t reach it??
Ray E Horton
Mike Partyka Yep, salvation is meant to be our destiny. Jesus died for all. But it must be received by faith.
Joshua A. Humphries
That’s most of general Christianity, but how the word “faith” is interpreted is where the divisions begin to appear.
Mike Partyka
Ray E Horton If he died for all man’s sin then why are not all men free from punishment? If you say unbelief are they not covered from that sin as well ?
Ray E Horton
Mike Partyka We are not punished for sin. Jesus took the sins of the world upon Himself. We will be punished for rejecting the salvation that Jesus provided.
Mike Partyka
Ray E Horton so there is more than 1 unforgivable sin? Is unbelief a sin ?
Ray E Horton
Mike Partyka It is the only unforgivable sin, since it refuses Christ’s forgiveness.
Joshua A. Humphries
Even Calvinists are divided over the nitty gritty of that.
For example, the Calvinist Puritans who founded Massachusetts severely punished (including execution) to prevent people from falling into the temptation of sin.
Mike Partyka
Ray E Horton did Judas want forgiveness or did he refuse it ?
Ray E Horton
Joshua A. Humphries Interesting
Ray E Horton
Mike Partyka He obviously refused it, Killing himself rather than repenting.
Mike Partyka
Ray E Horton Christ died for all sins of some men. If he died for the sins of all man and hell is to be filled that would make him a failure. He came for those only who the father gave him.
Ray E Horton
He wasn’t a failure. The Bible is clear that He indeed made salvation available to all men. But, man has the freedom to choose.
Mike Partyka
Ray E Horton “No man can come to me unless it has been granted to him by my father” John 6:65
“I pray for them, I do not pray for the world but for those whom you have given me, for they are yours” John 17:9
Ray E Horton
Mike Partyka The Father draws all, but not all respond. The Father gave Jesus all who would choose to receive.
Enough theologizing for now. It’s 1:45 at night and I need to get to bed.
Jireh D Hormann
Mike Partyka John 17:9, Jesus is talking about/ praying for the disciples, not the church. You can’t take it out of context.
Varnel Watson
Ray E Horton I am utterly convinced you were predestined to say that Now to Mike Partyka Gary Micheal Epping and RichardAnna Boyce I can say that there is NO Bible verse stating predestined for salvation but there is Word saying we are predestined to holiness sanctification #CHALLENGE stated !
RichardAnna Boyce
bible verse please Troy Day
Varnel Watson
RichardAnna Boyce there is NONE as stated
RichardAnna Boyce
“but there is Word saying we are predestined to holiness sanctification”
Varnel Watson
who have been chosen according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through the sanctifying work of the Spirit 1 Pet 1:2
For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight Eph 1:4
RichardAnna Boyce
Troy Day Progressive sanctification of soul. 1 Peter 1:2
In Greek the word elect is in v 1, immediately preceeding and modifying “pilgrims of the Dispersion.” The readers were chosen to be pilgrims and hence to share in Christ’s sufferings. The purpose of the Spirit’s sanctification is the believer’s obedience. Though good works do not produce or prove salvation, they are the goal of the Spirit’s ministry in the life of the child of God.
The sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ looks at the atoning work of Christ on the Cross that cleanses us. In the OT blood was sprinkled at the cleansing of the temple, the inauguration of the Law, the ordination of Aaron and his sons to the priesthood, the cleansing of lepers, and on the Day of Atonement. Each of these cleansings affected the believing Israelite’s fellowship with God. Their purpose was not to justify, but to sanctify by restoring fellowship broken by sin. In the same way Jesus’ blood cleanses (present tense) us and enables us to be in fellowship with God (1 John 1:7,9).
RichardAnna Boyce
Troy Day ProgressiveEphesians 1:4-6
1:4. The first blessing is that God the Father chose us in Christ before the foundation of the world. In Ephesians the first person plural typically refers to the Church, Jews and Gentiles together in one body. Thus some suggest that corporate election is in view here.
There is so much misunderstanding and controversy concerning God’s choosing of believers. There are two aspects of salvation. There is the “God side” as He chooses those to be in Christ, and at the same time there is the “human side” as each person must believe in Christ for eternal life. Both are true. Because people like sheep have all gone astray (Isa 53:6) God brings people to Himself. In this section of Ephesians Paul is stressing the Godward side of salvation, that He chose people in Christ.
Regardless of what type of choosing (individual or corporate) is in view here, this does not remove the responsibility of every person to believe in Christ for eternal life. From the man side, each person must believe in Christ for eternal life in order to have it.
God chose people before the foundation of the world. This seems to be a figure of speech called anthropomorphism. Since God has always been omniscient, there never was a literal time when He chose anyone.
God chose people so they would be holy and without blame before Him. This could refer to their standing in Christ, or it could refer to their experience, in which case Paul is thinking of the Judgment Seat of Christ (cf. Col 1:21-23).
1:5. The second blessing in this passage is that God the Father in love adopted us as sons. God has determined beforehand (predestined) that all who believe in Jesus Christ will be adopted into his family. People who were dead are now alive (Eph 2:1-10). They become children of God by Jesus Christ as He brings them to Himself. It was His good pleasure that they should be brought to Him and become His children.
1:6. The end result is that God the Father will be praised for His glorious grace. The grace of God is indeed glorious, and believers should always give Him praise.
By His grace He made us accepted in the Beloved. The Beloved One is Jesus Christ, and believers are in Him by faith, based on the grace of God.
Three more blessings are given to believers through the Son; believers have redemption in Christ, God makes known His plan to believers, and they have an inheritance.
Rick Ferguson
All are predestined to be saved. Christ came to save the whole world, He died for the whole world, redemption for the whole world was taken care of at the cross. However, many reject the Gospel.
Varnel Watson
All predestined to be saved is somewhat a wishy washy answer IF this was true but NOT all get saved then God who predestined them would be wrong – ppl really need to think before they post here RichardAnna Boyce Nelson Banuchi