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| PentecostalTheology.com
Which Was Submitted to His Imperial Majesty Charles V
At the Diet of Augsburg in the Year 1530
by Philip Melancthon (1497-1560)
Published in:Triglot Concordia: The Symbolical Books
of the Ev. Lutheran Church
(St. Louis: Concordia Publishing House, 1921),
pp. 37-95.
Of Free Will
_______________
Of Free Will they teach that man’s will has some liberty to choose civil righteousness, and to work things subject to reason. But it has no power, without the Holy Ghost, to work the righteousness of God, that is, spiritual righteousness; since the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God, 1 Cor. 2,14; but this righteousness is wrought in the heart when the Holy Ghost is received through the Word. These things are said in as many words by Augustine in his Hypognosticon, Book III: We grant that all men have a free will, free, inasmuch as it has the judgment of reason; not that it is thereby capable, without God, either to begin, or, at least, to complete aught in things pertaining to God, but only in works of this life, whether good or evil. “Good” I call those works which spring from the good in nature, such as, willing to labor in the field, to eat and drink, to have a friend, to clothe oneself, to build a house, to marry a wife, to raise cattle, to learn divers useful arts, or whatsoever good pertains to this life. For all of these things are not without dependence on the providence of God; yea, of Him and through Him they are and have their being. “Evil” I call such works as willing to worship an idol, to commit murder, etc.
They condemn the Pelagians and others, who teach that without the Holy Ghost, by the power of nature alone, we are able to love God above all things; also to do the commandments of God as touching “the substance of the act.” For, although nature is able in a manner to do the outward work, (for it is able to keep the hands from theft and murder,) yet it cannot produce the inward motions, such as the fear of God, trust in God, chastity, patience, etc.
Varnel Watson
As you can clearly see Peter Christian even the early reformers as Luther and Melanchthon believed in free will and human choice. So did the Reformation at least until the Augsburg Confession. What Calvin attempted to do with his theology should be views as counter Refrigerant. His return to Augustine and the Catholic foundation and teachings of the church is very much obvious in his Institutes http://www.pentecostaltheology.com/can-a-person-who-holds-to-predestined-personal-election-be-baptized-with-the-spirit-and-speak-in-tongues/
Peter Christian
John 6 and Romans 9.
As you can see Troy, that even Jesus and the Apostle taught that the creature’s will is not free to act however it wishes to.
Varnel Watson
Hardly so. If you refer to John 6:44 you need to read it again to see it has nothing to do with your claim. Rom. 9 was clearly explained by Jacob Arminius as he took down Luther’s claims. So I dont see your point with mentioning those. As you can see the reformers themselves Melenchthon in particular strongly disagree with your hyper Calvinistic claim
Peter Christian
My claims are not from Calvin. My claims are from the Word of God and as I said, John 6 and Romans 9 strips away from man any autonomy.
Varnel Watson
So are you saying that your own hyper Calvinistic interpretation of Scripture is to be received instead of Luther’s and Philip Melanchthon’s (the true mind behind the 16th c. Reformation) and the official doctrinal statement of the Reformation – the Augsburg Confession of Faith Which Was Submitted to His Imperial Majesty Charles V at the Diet of Augsburg and its foundation truths and teachings on FREE WILL?
http://www.pentecostaltheology.com/philip-melanchthon-and-…/
Peter Christian
Uh No no no no no that is not what i said. if you cannot extract correct what i said above and it is from a human mind, how can you exegesis properly the Word of God.
I said I remain on what the Word of God says about man’s will over anyone else. And so should u.
Varnel Watson
Also should we regard your own hyper Calvinistic interpretation of Rom 9 rather than This Analysis on Romans 9 prepared by ARMINIUS in 1593, and was sent to Gellius SNECANUS, a Minister in West Friesland, who entertained views of Christian doctrine similar to those of Arminius http://wesley.nnu.edu/arminianism/the-works-of-james-arminius/volume-3/analysis-of-romans-9/
Peter Christian
Uh Arminius was a damn heretic so yes you should disregard him and his heretic teachings
Varnel Watson
because you said so?
Peter Christian
Because he is giving another gospel that is why.
Varnel Watson
And what about Jesus who right after john 6 said John 7:17 – If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or [whether] I speak of myself ?
Peter Christian
Proverbs 16:9
Varnel Watson
And what about the Apostle John who said John 1:12-13 – But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, [even] to them that believe on his name:
Peter Christian
Do you understand the difference between being given a decision versus the inability to do something?
Peter Christian
Do you understand that when God gives man a choice it is to show man he cannot do that which is good but is bounded under sin all the time?
Peter Christian
Troy why don’t you exercise your free will and no longer sin for us pls.
Varnel Watson
Peter Christian Did someone forced you to get saved or it was your own choice?
Peter Christian
Not my choice. In Fact I didn’t even go to a church. I was saved by God’s calling on me due to His electing me unto salvation before the foundation of the world.
Varnel Watson
So someone forced you to get saved, forced you to pray prayer, forced you to say the words?
Peter Christian
I was once blinded by the veil of sin. Someone lifted the veil and I then saw sin for what it is. That same someone showed me who He is. Along with seeing, I flee from sin and ran to Him who lifted the veil off from me. I was once blind, but now I see.
No man wants to remain under sin when he’s made to see it for what it is Troy.
So this is how regeneration works. This is the favor God does for rebel sinners. He lifts up the veil and reveals Himself and sin to the sinner.
No sinner will ever want to remain in sin. WE all go running to Him.
Varnel Watson
Peter Christian Per your post that “Free Will is a LIE” you have been challenged to respond under this post and defend your position.
Varnel Watson
Philip Williams you ever ponder upon this reformation writing as related to Catholic Augustine and augustinian catholics?
Philip Williams
Troy Day yup
Varnel Watson
Philip Williams which one art thou ?
Philip Williams
Troy Day none of those. I am neither Catholic nor Reformed. I am but a Christian.
Varnel Watson
Philip Williams are you a Pentecostal calvinist christian? No one should be a but Christian
Philip Williams
Troy Day I don’t see Catholic, Augustinian, Calvinist, or Pentecostal in the Scriptures. I do see Christian.
Varnel Watson
Here is a good one for you Philip Williams
Here is an excerpts to get your curiosity going:
There, in that Pentecostal church in Stratford, Ontario—once home to Aimee Semple McPherson—God showed up. Encountering him in ways I hadn’t experienced or imagined before, God shook my intellectual framework and rattled my spiritual cage at the same time.
But let me add one more layer to this story: Just as I was being immersed in the Spirit’s activity and presence in Pentecostal spirituality and worship, I started a master’s degree in philosophical theology at the Institute for Christian Studies, a graduate school in the Dutch Reformed tradition at the University of Toronto. So my week looked a bit odd: Monday to Friday I was immersed in the intellectual resources of the Reformed tradition, diving into the works of Calvin, Kuyper, and Dooyeweerd.
Then on Sunday we’d show up at the Pentecostal church where, to be honest, things got pretty crazy sometimes. It was a long way from Toronto to Stratford, if you know what I mean—about the same distance from Geneva to Azusa Street.
For a lot of folks, that must sound like trying to inhabit two different space-time continuums. But I never experienced much tension between these worlds. Of course, my church and academic world didn’t bump into one another. Dooyeweerd and Jack Hayford don’t often cross paths. But in a way, I felt that they met in me—and they seemed to fit. I experienced a deep resonance between the two. In fact, I would suggest that being charismatic actually makes me a better Calvinist; my being Pentecostal is actually a way for me to be more Reformed.
Mike Partyka
I was raised in a Reformed Baptist Church now go to a Pentecostal church in Phoenix. My theology has not changed since I’ve been here.
Philip Williams
Mike Partyka you will grow in your understanding of you sell all and follow Jesus.
Mike Partyka
Philip Williams The issue here with the question in the OP is what is Pentecostal Theology. There are is no set doctrine. UPC AOG ? Oneness ? Have to speak in tongues ?
Varnel Watson
some Pentecostal church in Phoenix you go to
Mike Partyka
Troy Day Valley Pentecostal Church.
Philip Williams
Mike Partyka I’m also trying to answer that. The earliest Pentecostals were very much against anything but the Bible. The first issue that divided them was whether they should jettison entire sanctification as preceding the baptism with evidence. The New Issue concerned re-baptism in Jesus Name.
Mike Partyka
Philip Williams I guess I joined here looking for some answers regarding that issue. I am not here to debate oneness or having to speak In tongues. I am at that church until something outside the Bible is preached.
Mike Partyka
meaning issues that are “non negotiable”
Varnel Watson
Philip Williams must be a seeker church that still seeks their own theology and cares less for members belief
Philip Williams
Mike Partyka the one and only thing that ought to be non-negotiable is Jesus Christ of the Bible, the Eternal Life who is both Creator and purpose of all Creation, the one who his Father wishes us to honor just as we honor the Father!
Mike Partyka
Philip Williams No debate here. Troy Day what is Pentecostal Theology? Please define.
Varnel Watson
Mike Partyka funny you’d ask that under OP about Philip Melanchthon and the Augsburg Confession
Varnel Watson
I dont see you commenting much here Joshua Peter Phillips Tyler Lee Price Anytime my students quote me the Institutes in their poor poor English translation they better have Melanchthon under belt – same goes for Charles Page of course