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Could Pentecostalism use more focus on peace and justice?
John Kissinger [01/09/2016 4:31 PM]
Micael Grenholm how do you differentiate between Pentecostals & Charismatics?
John Kissinger [01/09/2016 4:36 PM]
well Micael Grenholm it is distinctly pointed out on the page you’re wanting us to like BUT perhaps a better working definition is in order š In Sweden is there still difference between Charismatic and Catholics?
John Kissinger [01/09/2016 4:43 PM]
Its been pointed time and time again by several old timers in this group that back in the 70s charismatics were Catholics (mainly) who were baptized in the Holy Ghost and (maybe) operated under the gifts. The recent turn in Sweden of ultra-Charismatic Ulf Ekmman toward Catholicism and the call of the Pope to charismatics to visit him in the Vatican in 2017, have raised the question of what exactly this new breed of charismatics is and is it perhaps cahrismatics turning to mainline Catholicism instead of the vice-versa paradigm of the 70s? John Ruffle William DeArteaga http://www.catholicapologetics.info/modernproblems/currenterrors/Charism.htm
John Kissinger [01/09/2016 4:57 PM]
Nice Micael Grenholm is this your original idea and how are you proving it?
John Ruffle [01/09/2016 5:02 PM]
I want to give a very short reply (am very tired right now as I await birth of a baby!)
Of course I was absolutely delighted when Ulf announced he was being received into the RC Church.But I’m not convinced that his charismatic theology had an awful lot to do with it. What i have observed is many cradle Catholics hankering after some of the glitzy elements of protestant charismatic practice, while remaining within the Catholic Church. I am quite troubled by the trend as it seems an inadequate theological response when Christians seek experience over a deeper and lasting substance handed down through the centuries.
Others I know or are acquainted with -including myself- have felt an urge for a deeoer spirituality of an ilk I have never encountered in Protestant (non-Anglican) churches.
John Kissinger [01/09/2016 5:04 PM]
So how you then differentiate b/w Pentecostals and charismatics? Micael Grenholm
John Ruffle [01/09/2016 5:11 PM]
Yep! Glory be to God.
John Kissinger [01/09/2016 5:12 PM]
oh hallelujah – congratulations; have a name yet?
John Kissinger [01/09/2016 8:32 PM]
exactly what I was warning against http://holyspiritactivism.com/2013/02/16/aaron-d-taylor-merging-charismatic-and-mennonite-traditions/
Glynn Brown [01/10/2016 6:06 AM]
Pentecostal is more of a denomination, whereas charismatic is not,it’s one who has the gifts regardless of any denominational affiliation.
John Kissinger [01/10/2016 7:10 AM]
Glynn Brown do you mean more of independent churches?
Glynn Brown [01/10/2016 8:32 AM]
Independent, non denominational,etc.
Glynn Brown [01/10/2016 8:35 AM]
You can be a Baptist charismatic, a Methodist charismatic, a Catholic charismatic, etc.
John Kissinger [01/10/2016 8:36 AM]
That most certainly was the case back in the 70s, but it seems to be reverting nowadays as we discussed with Terry Wiles in the tribal topic yesterday http://bereanresearch.org/new-apostolic-reformation-using-empowered21-assemblies-of-god-to-further-agenda/
Terry Wiles [01/10/2016 8:39 AM]
Micael. What do you mean when you say we should get together to “promote peace and justice?”
John Kissinger [01/10/2016 8:40 AM]
And would that mean specifically that Pentecostal AND NAR should get together to “promote peace and justice?”
Mary Ellen Nissley
Oh my goodness. What a mess in that original article: “Why I wish I were a Mennonite”… indeed. As one who grew up Mennonite, and well-aquainted with Mennonite culture across the eastern half of the US, may I make a few observations to the contrary of this article:
1. Mennonites usually do NOT live below their means! They tend to be wealthier than others in their communities. Why? Because of their German thrift and hard work.
2. Mennonites not only warn against the dangers of nationalism, they also prohibit saluting the flag, voting, and taking part in the armed forces, even as noncombatants. Why? Because they throw out the OT moral law, thinking that the Sermon on the Mount destroyed it. In doing so, they ascribe to a “Higher Law”.
(…one which completely forbids all divorce and remarriage, to the point of requiring all formerly divorced and remarried people to break up current marriages, and to return to the former marriage partner. This not only destroys the law of Deuteronomy 24:1-4, but turns it upside down, making the abomination of v4 into a NT command!)
They cannot make sense of the OT, so they throw out everything not mirrored in the NT… which is why I grew up without musical instruments.
3. “Mennonites were sharing possessions, building communities, and identifying with the poor.” ??? Really? Not so fast. That’s their carefully projected image they want the world to think of them. In private life, it doesn’t happen so much. I have known Mennonite single mothers who simply didn’t have the social status within the church to get them the financial help they needed for proper medical care.
4. “Mennonites were providing a decent living for third world farmers by setting up international co-ops and selling fair trade coffee.” He’s referring there to the ultra-modern liberal Mennonite who tries to be relevant to globalism in a political context. And yes, this is the identity of most Mennonites. His next sentence shows this: …ārevolutionary subordinationā or ācivil disobedienceā spoken in church.” This would NEVER have been spoken in the conservative church I grew up in!
And “sexism”??? Are you kidding me? I grew up Mennonite. And I was not allowed to get a college education, because I was a girl! Even in my late 40’s, when I went for my degree, the church authorities didn’t like it.
He’s talking about the kind of Mennonites who are involved in the gay rights agenda. (My brother-in-law is a Mennonite minister of this type.)
5. Aha. Here we get to the root of the problem.
“Jesus never once made the distinction between personal enemies and national enemies.”
That’s because he didn’t need to. He was talking to Jews, who lived and functioned under Moses’ moral law. He had just told them he was not destroying the law. And the law DID make a distinction between personal and national enemies.
Aaron D. Taylor is making the mistake my ancestors did… thinking Jesus was somehow instituting a different set of laws from what His Father did in the OT. As if the Father and the Son have different moral standards.. and the Son’s is superior to the Father’s. What a doctrinal can of worms.
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