Pentecostal Theology of Political Asylum in America Today

159 Comments

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  Reply July 24, 2018

  Varnel Watson

  Daniel Rushing I would love to explain it to you if you are up for it Nelson Banuchi In a lecture of mine during the Honduran crises, I showed the Biblical view of immigration, the history of immigration laws in Christendom, and gave an analysis of the situation with the immigration laws today. To make a long story short, the Biblical view of immigration is that the government should not be involved in controlling the movement of non-criminal individuals. People should be free to cross any borders and settle and do business and get hired and hire anywhere they desire, as long as they do not commit crimes. Criminals should be dealt with the same way, whether they are homeborn or foreigners. (Not deport foreign criminals.) The line should be drawn at the voting booth: migration is a right, voting is a privilege. Thus, the Biblical system is open borders and limited political franchise.

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  Reply July 24, 2018

  Nelson Banuchi

  You have the lecture…written audio, I would be interested to get it. I am skeptical of this: “People should be free to cross any borders and settle and do business and get hired and hire anywhere they desire,” but I’m open…

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  Reply July 24, 2018

  Varnel Watson

  Just notes but I can post the more important ones

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  Reply July 24, 2018

  Nelson Banuchi

  Troy Day Cool. Make sure I’m tagged…

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  Reply July 24, 2018

  Varnel Watson

  Nelson Banuchi here are some

  Bob Wizenhut Hugh Lowrie I am greatly surprised and very amused how little you know about current politics, American history or our way of life. Perhaps yall are illegal immigrants sent to spy?

  There was at the time when Texas ranchers worked to keep the border open and helped their Mexican workers get legal papers in the US.

  In the 1980s it was
  Ronald Reagan
  who called for open borders and amnesty, and was blocked by an alliance of liberal Republicans and Democrats – although, the amnesty did pass, somewhat.

  In 1995, it was extremely liberal Harry Reid called for building a wall on the border and for closing the borders. Conservative republicans are all against Reid you remember?

  For most of the history of the US, ordinary working Americans didn’t care about immigration one way or another – except that immigration proved to them the superiority of the American way of life, people from all over the world wanted to be Americans. Ordinary working Americans remembered that they were all immigrants.

  In fact, for most of its history the US didn’t have any immigration controls; the Constitution did not grant this prerogative to the federal government. The feds were allowed to control naturalization, not immigration.

  The first law regulating and restricting immigration appeared in 1921. Even then, Texas refused to comply for another 30+ years, and kept its border open.

  It wasn’t until the 1950s when President Eisenhower used troops returning from Europe to force Texas into compliance, in the so-called Operation Wetback. Multiple farms in Texas were raided, people were murdered, thousands of Hispanics – most of whom were born in the US – were rounded up and taken to the Sonora Desert in Mexico and left there; as a result, many died. Immigration restrictions in the US have a history of murder and robbery by the government that many Christians today don’t know about.

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  Reply July 24, 2018

  Nelson Banuchi

  Putting this in my “notes” for future reference.

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  Reply July 24, 2018

  Bob Wizenhut

  Troy Day – I’m just a simple guy that doesn’t watch TV news. So I might miss the hysteria of the week but I’m more plugged into the analysis of what is happening. I do know that Americans have been concerned with illegal immigration as far back as Reagan. President Clinton certainly had plenty to say about the hazards of open borders. But today, the fight against open borders is being led by Black America and Bible based Evangelicals.

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  Reply July 25, 2018

  Varnel Watson

  Bob Wizenhut we are talking about pentecostal theology Nothing on or off TV No general talk on immigration. Simply Bible and theology. What is your take on the actual OP?

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  Reply July 25, 2018

  Varnel Watson

  Scotty Searan Jan Dixon Sykes ignorance of real-world implementation, of institutional embodiment is seen in the immigration debate. For most – if not all – defenders of immigration restrictions and control, these immigration restrictions are some abstract reality out there, and if “we just obey the law,” there would be no problems, and everything will be alright. What is always missed is that behind these abstract immigration laws they want to see enforced, there is an institutional arrangement, and that that institutional arrangement is just as destructive to America as are the government schools. And certainly more destructive to America than any threat open borders could involve. That institutional arrangement is the same executive state of which I have talked before. The same executive state which is characteristic of pagan societies, because the Law of God does not allow the civil government to control non-criminal individuals, whether homeborn or foreigners. And every time we insist that these immigration laws are enforced, all we are insisting is that more power is given to the Federal government to control people. We imagine that it is to control only foreigners, but the real purpose of these laws is control over us, the US citizens.

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  Reply July 25, 2018

  Bob Wizenhut

  Troy Day – If you are talking simple theology than why do you keep making statements like “even Fox news says…”? I can’t figure out how to get to the OP. But Evangelical Christians have Biblical teaching on their side on this one. I’ve not seen anyone make a sincere case to try to counter that. And Black America makes a strong moral case. Start with Nehemiah.

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  Reply July 25, 2018

  Varnel Watson

  Bob Wizenhut You are again posting your regular general comments which I have read under most of your posts. Just for fun let’s take one of the most common objections of many Christians and conservatives in general against the idea of open borders (which, by the way, is the original constitutional arrangement of the US): “We can’t have open borders with a welfare state. We need to keep the borders closed until we remove the welfare state, and only then open the borders.” Taken in its abstract form, this proposition makes perfect sense; many immigrants come here only for the welfare, so let’s limit immigration by law, meanwhile work to abolish the welfare state, and then finally, we can open the borders and have only those who would come here to work. In a world of idealized theorizing, this theory is quite convincing. Let’s have a process of sifting visitors and immigrants, until we deal with the problem.
  The problem comes when we connect the theory to the real world. Who do you think profits the most from the welfare state? Federal bureaucrats of the executive branch. Thus, who do you think is your real enemy in the war against the welfare state? Federal bureaucrats of the executive branch. And now, listen carefully. Who do you think, according to the immigration law, controls the admission of immigrants? Yes, you got it. Federal bureaucrats of the executive branch. So, what is the logic of trusting the same enemies whom you are fighting politically over the welfare state, to provide an administrative defense of your fight against the welfare state? In whose favor do you think they will tilt their decisions when they admit immigrants, in your favor or in favor of their own political agenda?
  I have asked this question hundreds of times. I have never gotten an answer from those who use this argument. And yet, they continue repeating the same abstract mantra. Somehow, for most Christians and conservatives in general, the practical application of their abstract ideas has no value whatsoever. The real world doesn’t matter.

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  Reply July 25, 2018

  Bob Wizenhut

  I’ve not argued that we should eliminate the welfare state. And the arguement that we should have open borders because that is how our country was 200 years ago doesn’t move me. First, its not a theological argument. And second, it is the only option countries at that time had. If you want to argue for open borders it is time for you to put a real theologically based arguement on the table. Christians are going to support the rule of law, for Biblical reasons, and I’ve not seen anyone that argues for open borders be willing to address that issue. Stop asking 100 times and come up with a theological position my friend.

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  Reply July 25, 2018

  Varnel Watson

  Wait a minute Bob – are you even reading what I wrote? Are you even reading what you write? How is it NOT a theological argument? If this is ALL you got, I rest my case…

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  Reply July 25, 2018

  Bob Wizenhut

  Sorry Troy Day – it was a very, very long post. I still can’t find anything related to theology. It appears most of your comments are an argument against a false strawman of the ‘most common objection’ to open borders. If you have a theological basis for open borders present it now in one clear sentence instead of pointing back to a previous post that talks about the Constitution, past practices, you asking people 100 times, etc. If you’ve got something, anything, state it clearly, don’t hide it in a long post of unrelated stuff.

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  Reply July 25, 2018

  Varnel Watson

  oh WOW Nelson Banuchi Joseph Kidwell in the last several days I feel like I am like conservative bro Trump and Bob and Hugh Lowrie are the so ever liberal CNN and CNBC

  Do I really need to go back and explained with simplicity my last several comments under this post? Daniel Rushing @robert erwin ???

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  Reply July 25, 2018

  Jan Dixon Sykes

  Troy, why are you trying to relitigate this topic & misrepresent my position in the process? My position is NOT, “if we just follow the law.” My position is immigrants must come here and ASSIMILATE. That if our concern is compassion, then we need to GO to these countries & convert their leaders and thugs to make their countries safer. And while that is happening, we are to build safe spaces for the victims, as the Good Samaritan did for the victim he found on the road to Jericho.

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  Reply July 25, 2018

  Daniel Rushing

  The last thing the US needs to do is be the police or the fixers of the world. That’s not what our forefathers intended. We were to be a beacon of hope for all who were suffering to come to and find liberty. That’s the American dream. It’s what makes us different than the rest of the world.

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  Reply July 25, 2018

  Jan Dixon Sykes

  I’m not talking political fixes. I’m talking taking the gospel to the world. Then people will fix their own political problems.

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  Reply July 25, 2018

  Daniel Rushing

  Jan Dixon Sykes What a blessing it would be if God sent them to us! Imagine that!

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  Reply July 25, 2018

  Jan Dixon Sykes

  Why subject them to the trials of their getting here? We need to be proactive and go minister unto them in their own languages, in their own neighborhoods, with their lifelong family and friends around them—and they don’t have to sell their family heirlooms to get here. While we are there we can set up schools to educate them. I supported such a place in India for years, haven’t you? Also a place in the Philippines. And a place in Panama.

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  Reply July 25, 2018

  Bob Wizenhut

  It is easy to determine whether the motivation is compassion or to use vulnerable people of color for partisan gain based on whether one is willing to quit their job and move to these countries.

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  Reply July 25, 2018

  Jan Dixon Sykes

  I know a lot of leftists who wear a virtue signaling badge by being FOR something they think is compassionate, but they never mentor a single victim of said cause or give a dime of their own after tax money. Now show up at a rally with friends? Oh yeah!! Party time!! But they are awol when it comes time to tutor, to hang out with, to train. I still remember buying some Hillbilly woman driving lessons back in the 80s so she could drive herself to houses to clean them. 600 bucks—in the 80s no less. Then I hired her to clean my house twice a month, now that she could drive. These opportunities are around us everywhere, but here the virtue signalers are on FB saying they care about the kids at the border instead. Yeah, kids getting trafficked, raped, exploited. But are those people there? No.

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  Reply July 25, 2018

  Louise Cummings

  We need to do that if they will let you in and preach the gospel like our Bible teaches. Most of them won’t even let a television put in there from our country. But they need the Lord for sure. I’m not against any race or color. And we have some good ones over here. My husband had a lot of dealings with people from other countries in rental property. Most was pretty good. But you had some , as in all races. That you had to be careful about renting too.

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  Reply July 25, 2018

  Varnel Watson

  imagine that Daniel Rushing Joseph Kidwell

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  Reply July 25, 2018

  Louise Cummings

  It’s pretty bad , in my opinion. But we need to pray trust God to work everything for His good. I think of a song , the last stanza of this song , The Love Of God. Written in 1917. F.M. Lehman. They think was him. Found it written on a wall of a narrow room of an asylum. He was said to have been demented. But the words sounded like he was sane to me. The words said. Could we with ink the ocean fill, And were the skies of parchment made, Were every stalk on earth a quill, And every man a scribe by trade, To write the love of God above Would drain the ocean dry, Nor could the scroll contain the whole , Tho stretched from sky to sky. O love of God , how rich and pure! How measureless and strong! It shall forever more endure , The saints and angels song. ( But what I was saying. It will take God to bring things together again. Because I believe we are entering the last days , the Bible tells us about. ).

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  Reply July 25, 2018

  Varnel Watson

  Nelson Banuchi Joseph Kidwell Everyone knows I am a Reagan republican

  To president Reagan belong the words – Take this WALL DOWN

  There was a time things were simple and straight forward
  Republicans believed in no walls and free markets
  Socialists believed on closed borders and command economy with tariffs

  What are then nowadays republicans who fight for closed borders and command economy with tariffs? Henry Volk Scotty Searan

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  Reply July 25, 2018

  Varnel Watson

  Jan Dixon Sykes Scotty Searan Bob Wizenhut

  Let;s listen to the BIBLE on immigration for once

  God give Israel NO laws for immigration restrictions, He actually put a ban on deporting immigrants. In the same chapter where the Israelites were commanded to not detest the Edomite and the Egyptian, Deut. 23, the following commandment was given in verses 15 and 16:

  You shall not hand over to his master a slave who has escaped from his master to you. He shall live with you in your midst, in the place which he shall choose in one of your towns where it pleases him; you shall not mistreat him.

  As a matter of fact, you can ask Tom Steele and he will tell you that GOD himself changed the 4th commandment on the Sabbath from the first generation that left Egypt to the generation of their children And that change was namely to remember the strangers !!!

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  Reply July 26, 2018

  Scotty Searan

  Troy Day: This was just a person coming across the border to get out of another country., in Deuteronomy 23:15-16. This was a slave. A person who was owned by another. This was no free person as these people seem to be crossing many borders. This was not a normal traveling stranger.
  But have you forgot about PHILEMON and ONESIMUS in the New Testament when Apostle Paul sent ONESIMUS back to his master PHILEMON
  Paul told PHILEMON that he would pay the charges of what ONESIMUS may have cost him.. He was also instructed to treated his as a brother, not as a servant.
  (FOOTNOTE: I wonder how many Christian businessmen treat Christian employees as a Christian employee or do they treat them as just another employee.?)
  There is a vast difference, so it appears that Apostle Paul did not obey Deuteronomy 23:15-16.
  Now if a stranger is a Christian, will they violate the laws of a country to go into a country and be willing to suffer the penalties?
  Also I believe you r interpretation about the Berlin Wall and the Communist wall is not right.
  One of the biggest MISTAKES President Reagan did was giving amnesty to the foreigners and going against the laws of our our country and we are reaping the effects of it.
  Now here is the law for the stranger or sojourner.
  14 And if a stranger sojourn with you, or whosoever be among you in your generations, and will offer an offering made by fire, of a sweet savour unto the Lord; as ye do, so he shall do.
  Deuteronomy 15:15-16; 29-31
  15 One ordinance shall be both for you of the congregation, and also for the stranger that sojourneth with you, an ordinance for ever in your generations: as ye are, so shall the stranger be before the Lord.
  16 One law and one manner shall be for you, and for the stranger that sojourneth with you.
  29 Ye shall have one law for him that sinneth through ignorance, both for him that is born among the children of Israel, and for the stranger that sojourneth among them.
  30 But the soul that doeth ought presumptuously, whether he be born in the land, or a stranger, the same reproacheth the Lord; and that soul shall be cut off from among his people.
  31 Because he hath despised the word of the Lord, and hath broken his commandment, that soul shall utterly be cut off;
  Here is the meaning of presumptuously:
  PRESUMP’TUOUSLY, adv. With rash confidence.
  1. Arrogantly; insolently.
  2. Willfully; in bold defiance of conscience or violation of known duty; as, to sin presumptuously.
  3. With groundless and vain confidence in the divine favor.
  A person who sins willfully knowing the consequences, in the Old Testament was to be cut off from the camp, either by being put out of the campy or stoning.
  If you don’t believe God was serious about this.
  Read down just a few more verse you will find a man was gathering sticks on the sabbath day and he had to pay with his life being stone.
  So if a stranger seeks to come into our country and does not obey the laws of our country, including the immigration , then according to God’s word they should pay for the penalty of their sin – their iniquity shall be upon them.

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  Reply July 26, 2018

  Jan Dixon Sykes

  Troy, I have already been quoting scripture to you in our last round. First, the scriptures you are quoting are in the OT, the same OT where God told Jerusalem to build a wall to protect it from invaders. Where God told his people to be kind to sojourners, which meant people passing through, since the root word of sojourn is JOUR, which means DAY in French. ……….. I also reminded you Jesus gave us the parable of the Good Samaritan to show us what compassion looked like, who did not take the victim home, but provided him a nearby safe space. And yes, he compassionately paid for it himself, with his own money, not Caesar’s. ………….. I’m also curious, since God told the Israelites to kill all the natives when they emigrated out of Egypt back to Canaan (think Jericho), should all the new immigrants to America kill all of us and set up their own, different kingdom? That would be scriptural, wouldn’t it?

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  Reply July 26, 2018

  Varnel Watson

  Yall should actually read the BIBLE and more specifically how GOD changes the text of the 4th commandment. I am simply speaking about BIBLICAL immigration and have made no attempt to apply it to modern day politics YET. Yes it was OT because I am speaking about theology concerning ISRAEL Yes it was slaves because to such GOD gave such immigration rights.

  Not only Israel could not restrict immigration, they could not deport immigrants either. The Biblical principle of Israel as the shining city on a hill was applied thoroughly. Come to Israel, the Law said, and be free. Come to the only place in the world where a foreigner can find his true home and have peace. To understand the importance of this specific law we need to understand the ancient world: The largest slave owners in the pagan nations were usually the politically and militarily powerful. Slaves were most often acquired in military expeditions, and the powerful of the day took the lion’s share of the plunder. For Israel to refuse to deport a slave back to his foreign pagan master meant that the master could incite his government—or he may have been the government himself—to go to war with Israel. This law spelled possible international conflict for Israel for every slave who could decide to find asylum in Israel. God didn’t care. He was very specific, and very clear: Not only you will not deport a fugitive slave, but you will allow the slave to decide where he wants to settle and live. And if you have to go to war for every slave, you will go to war for every slave. Because, remember, you were a foreigner, and a slave, and therefore, if you want to be righteous before me, you will defend and protect the foreigner and the slave. Three thousand years before the US was founded, another nation was commanded to declare to the world,
  “Give me your tired, your poor,
  Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
  The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
  Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed, to me:
  I lift my lamp beside the golden door.”

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  Reply July 26, 2018

  Varnel Watson

  Here is a GREAT NT example for yall.
  “Depart from me, accursed ones,” Jesus will say in the Day of Judgment, “for I was a stranger, and you did not invite Me in” (Matt. 25:43). On this specific issue, as a church, we have been paying lip service to Christ, while at the same time we have demanded that our government kick the strangers out. And then we have been wondering why Jesus is not here to bless our efforts in turning America back. Could it be that He is not here because He has obeyed our immigration laws? Could it be that He is one of those deported strangers? You think Jesus would for sure be flying the stars and stripes today, and not present Himself as a stranger to test you? Could it be that we have sealed the fate of America by abandoning our true Christian heritage, buying wholesale the ideology of the enemy? Could it be that we have been hypocritically babbling about “evangelism” and “preaching the Gospel” and “missions,” and when God sends us people to evangelize, we have demanded that they be deported, or gunned down?

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  Reply July 26, 2018

  Jan Dixon Sykes

  Okay, Troy, please go to Dearborn and convert all those whom God brought you to evangelize. Just saw a meme that Dearborn‘s population is exploding and it just closed its last church. So they have no neighbors to convert them. Please be their neighbor. God brought them all the way to America just for you to walk your talk. I may be the only one who has ever led a Muslim to the Lord & I WENT to the Middle East where I did it. ……… And no worries about Central Americans. They’re already Christians. You need to get your butt to Dearborn. …………… Btw, American takes in REFUGEES. Not those who sneak in for a better life. That’s a materialistic decision. We should not be rewarding that by mislabeling them as refugees. We ALSO take in about a million a year who want to immigrate and ASSIMILATE. Dearborn has not assimilated.

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  Reply July 26, 2018

  Varnel Watson

  Jan Dixon Sykes I dont need to go to no where else BUT to the BIBLE This is a theological discussion. We discuss the BIBLE not random legal and civil failure cases that you have in mind. Such are namely the reason why we defend our Biblical rights and do not allow the government to mingle in our Biblical matters. Deerborn MI and other cases like that are exactly why we dont allow the liberal civil ordinances to rule over the Bible Had we all listen to the Biblical migrant laws we would have not have Deerborn OR are you now denying what the Bible orders us to do and expect us to listen to Trump over the Bible? I have lived to see the day Joseph Kidwell Nelson Banuchi Ricky Grimsley

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  Reply July 26, 2018

  Jan Dixon Sykes

  So take your Bible to Dearborn & convert those Muslims that God brought to you to convert. They need Christ. Please introduce them to Christ. Maybe there is even a Muslim enclave even closer to you. Please look them up and convert them. God put them in your midst for just that reason.

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  Reply July 26, 2018

  Joseph Kidwell

  I agree Troy Day.

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  Reply July 26, 2018

  Scotty Searan

  Troy Day Joseph Kidwell Philemon has not been addressed.
  The Good Samaritan was under the Jewish law at the time, because Jesus Christ had not became the sacrifice for sin and the Grace dispensation had not begun.
  Much of the Four Gospels must be understood in the light that they were writing about Jesus Christ and him living under the law
  But Apostle Paul set down what should be done under the grace dispensation and one example was his disobedience to the Jewish law in Philemon. What he did was building a foundation and the law should not be built on it again.

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  Reply July 25, 2018

  Joseph Kidwell

  Troy Day, I voted for Reagan in 1980 and 1984. This GOP which has been hijacked by Trump is no the Party of Reagan.

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  Reply July 25, 2018

  Bob Wizenhut

  Doesn’t it just tear your heart out to know that President Trump will be considered by Conservatives to be a greater President than Reagan?

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  Reply July 25, 2018

  Joseph Kidwell

  Real conservatives don’t support Trump: Ana Navarro John McCain, Bill Kristol, George Will, Joe Scarbourgh, Jeff Flake, Charlie Sykes just to name a few. White nationalism is not conservative, it’s racist. Tariffs are not conservative. A hedonistic lifestyle is not conservative. A President who sells his own country out to Russia is not a conservative. He is a traitor.

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  Reply July 25, 2018

  Bob Wizenhut

  Maybe so. But President Trump is redefining what it means to be conservative. And he is already known as being greater than Reagan 18 months in. Just think of his star power after 8 full years!

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  Reply July 25, 2018

  Joseph Kidwell

  Bob Wizenhut, not according to the polls. I hope you and the rest of the members of the Trump cult are ready to see a Democratic House of Representatives elected in November.#BlueWave

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  Reply July 25, 2018

  Bob Wizenhut

  Joe, you know that what I said is true and its true regardless of what the polls say. Conservatism has been redefined the new definition will live on well past President Trump. This is not about President Trump but about the movement that he is giving voice to..

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  Reply July 25, 2018

  Louise Cummings

  So did I. I can’t believe you think this GOP was hijacked by trump. And if things goes the way you are thinking. I believe, we wouldn’t have any problem getting the churches to pray. I really don’t believe you know what you are asking for. And maybe I’m wrong. But I hear when we vote for President , we are voting for a pastor. But the last time I heard the Pledge to the Flag to the United States Of America ,and to the Republic Of which it stands. One Nation Under God. So our Nation was built upon God. We should look for Presidents, standing as close to God as possible. I know and have confidence that you believe in all that. But a little mixed up in what is conservative and what is not. I don’t mean this to offend in any way. I’m not good at explaining what I mean. So I hope you see what I am saying.

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  Reply July 26, 2018

  Scotty Searan

  Joseph Kidwell John McCain, Bill Kristol, George Will, Joe Scarbourgh, Jeff Flake, Charlie Sykes. These men are not conservatives they are RINOS

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  Reply July 26, 2018

  Scotty Searan

  Louise Cummings I like your comment and I don’t mean to go against you. But the words “Under God” was not in the original Pledge of Allegiance. Under God was added in 1954. when the last two states were added to the union.

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  Reply July 26, 2018

  Louise Cummings

  When the Clintons got in office. They believed in anything. That’s the last democrat, that I voted for. Their morals got to bad. And they were they started sending our jobs even no one working at the plants. They sent our jobs to other countries. My son could have retired from there shortly. Not because he was old. But after so many years they could retire. So they got our jobs over there. And started sending their people from there, over here to get what jobs that was left over here to get the rest of our jobs here. Now I love these people. We have some of the sweetest you’ll find anywhere. My son started his own business. But some from the plants ended up commuting suicide. It was so sad.Another President. He is the one who has and put their children in cages. That was on Obama’s watch. But guess who gets the blame. God knows when to build up. And when to tare down. God knows who to set in place. But He also gives us choices. The way I feel about Reagan. I believe He was put there by God. Why I say that. Those walls had to come down. The Lord scattered the Jews in different parts of the world. Because of their sin. But He said in the last days. I’ll bring you back to your homeland. Well they couldn’t get out of Russia, because of the Wall. God used Raegan to get the walls brought down. The Jews went flooding back to their homeland. See God moves as he sees fit , when it’s time. But now some of our jobs is being brought back. I know some doesn’t like it. But I believe God has Trump there for a reason. And we will know as it plays out. I think one thing. He is for the Jews. I know the Jews as for the most part, doesn’t believe Jesus Christ is the Son Of God. But their eyes will be opened. And they will see. We had one President that doesn’t believe in God. As a matter of fact he was schooled in that part of the country. Or some of it. The Bible said I will bless those that bless Israel. And curse those that curse Israel. I believe that is one reason Trump is in. Is because he is for Israel. Let’s not forget to pray for the peace of Jerusalem.

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  Reply July 26, 2018

  Jan Dixon Sykes

  Louise, I agree our nation was founded on Christian precepts. Our laws are Judeo-Christian laws, not Hindu laws where we sit back and watch someone violate another, because after all, they must be making anointment for a past life, and to interfere is to prevent them from graduating to a better life next time. ……….. You are also right that it was Clinton who signed NAFTA, costing us entire factories. Trump has FINALLY done right by Israel, and he who blesses Israel gets blessed. Our jobs are coming back, perhaps as evidence of that. ……………. But our founders weren’t all so pure. So Joseph can relax about Trump. Ben Franklin was a womanizer who slept with next to every pretty woman in France. Jefferson slept with his slave. Half of them were diestist who thought, although God created us, after that, he’s just sitting back and watching. …………. God doesn’t always pick the “righteous” one, or he might get the glory instead of everyone marveling it must be God, cuz that vulgarian sure isn’t capable of this goodness. For example, Moses was a murderer, Rahab was a prostitute, David was an adulterer AND a murderer. Funny, the Democrats used to agree, when they liked Ted Kennedy, who was an adulterer and murderer as well. ?

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  Reply July 26, 2018

  Joseph Kidwell

  Real Republicans don’t support Trump.

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  Reply July 26, 2018

  Varnel Watson

  Real conservatives don’t support Trump: #there It’s the ones with the socialist agenda of removing open borders and free market economy that do

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  Reply July 26, 2018

  Varnel Watson

  Scotty Searan Jan Dixon Sykes How does America compare to this Biblical principle today? Let me remind you: Thousands of German Jews were refused entry in the US in the 1930s because of immigration restrictions. And the American church remained silent. And today, the same American church insists on more immigration restrictions, more government power to restrict the movement of individuals, not to mention radical murderous measures like machine guns and military helicopters on the border, to shoot at unarmed people. Who knows how many Christian brothers we have returned to their pagan masters with our immigration laws? Who knows how many decent men and women who were looking for gainful employment to provide for their children have we returned to their poverty and misery and darkness and ignorance? Let me ask you: Could it be that we are losing America to fascism today exactly because we have failed to search the Word of God on this issue, and have sided with the fascists, as a church? Could it be that God is bringing judgment on us because we have been acting as Barbaric pagans, mistreating and oppressing the stranger with our support for wicked immigration laws?

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  Reply July 26, 2018

  Joseph Kidwell

  Powerfull spoken.

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  Reply July 26, 2018

  Varnel Watson

  Nelson Banuchi Joseph Kidwell Seems like only couple of examples from American history and a simple economix were sufficient to silent the opponents of open borders and free market capitalism showing them that we the Republicans were against those walls and borders as purely socialistic and marxist ideas. Borders in the BIBLE were not meant to restrain individuals or to give more power to the civil government to control the movement of individuals. Borders were actually establish to limit the power and the geographical extent of the civil government. We already saw that a fugitive slave could settle in Israel, protected from the laws of the land of his pagan master. In Israel, the local city governments were limited in extent; a man could flee to another city if he believed he wouldn’t get a fair treatment in the courts of his own city. Cities of refuge were established for those who have killed unintentionally, to protect them from the wrath of the victim’s relatives; the legal authority for prosecution was in the hands of the city of refuge, thus limiting the power of other civil governments (Numbers 35). The BIBLICAL principle of borders was: Individuals can move freely, governments are restrained. The same principle protected the nation from foreign invaders: for a foreign invasion was a foreign government overstepping its boundaries. Few things reveal more clearly the foolishness of modern American Christianity than this inability to distinguish between immigration and invasion; and the difference is very clear, one is an act by individuals, and therefore is legitimate and allowed, and the other is an act of a government overstepping its boundaries. Henry Volk Ricky Grimsley Scotty Searan Jim Price

• 

  Reply July 26, 2018

  Joseph Kidwell

  Troy Day, you are making a powerful Biblical case. Feel free to post these last two statements on my personal page.

• 

  Reply July 26, 2018

  Nelson Banuchi

  I agree with Joseph Kidwell. I honestly never saw it that way, separating government from civilian…thanks.!

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  Reply July 26, 2018

  Varnel Watson

  I like what Joe said about Reagan! Many republicans today got no clue what the Republic is all about. 30 yrs ago they would have been kicked to the curb of GOP with their socialistic ideas of closed tariff markets and Berlin wall borders

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  Reply July 26, 2018

  Joseph Kidwell

  Tariffs have always been anathama to conservatives, and rightly so. They don’t work.

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  Reply July 26, 2018

  Nelson Banuchi

  Troy Day, can you tell me what was or is there a good website that would provide me with the history of immigration, maybe from a Christian standpoint?

  Also, are you able to tell me what, if any, was the policy on immigration when the U.S. Constitution was written, or can you direct me to a website that discusses immigration historically and with specific reference to the Constitution?

  Thanks!

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  Reply July 27, 2018

  Varnel Watson

  not on the web but book titles

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  Reply July 27, 2018

  Nelson Banuchi

  Troy Day Git any titles you can start me with that have reliable info?

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  Reply July 27, 2018

  Varnel Watson

  Git er done – hope you are ready for some ultra conservative Christian republicanism – not easy on the years 🙂

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  Reply July 26, 2018

  Varnel Watson

  Tom Steele what is your take on the change ot he 4th commandment in regard of the Torrah immigration laws?

• 

  Reply July 26, 2018

  Scotty Searan

  Troy Day:
  God was serious about keeping the Sabbath holy, as you notice in the following verses from Numbers 15:29-41
  29 Ye shall have one law for him that sinneth through ignorance, both for him that is born among the children of Israel, and for the stranger that sojourneth among them.
  30 But the soul that doeth ought presumptuously, whether he be born in the land, or a stranger, the same reproacheth the Lord; and that soul shall be cut off from among his people.
  31 Because he hath despised the word of the Lord, and hath broken his commandment, that soul shall utterly be cut off; his iniquity shall be upon him.
  32 And while the children of Israel were in the wilderness, they found a man that gathered sticks upon the sabbath day.
  33 And they that found him gathering sticks brought him unto Moses and Aaron, and unto all the congregation.
  34 And they put him in ward, because it was not declared what should be done to him.
  35 And the Lord said unto Moses, The man shall be surely put to death: all the congregation shall stone him with stones without the camp.
  36 And all the congregation brought him without the camp, and stoned him with stones, and he died; as the Lord commanded Moses.
  37 And the Lord spake unto Moses, saying,
  38 Speak unto the children of Israel, and bid them that they make them fringes in the borders of their garments throughout their generations, and that they put upon the fringe of the borders a ribband of blue:
  39 And it shall be unto you for a fringe, that ye may look upon it, and remember all the commandments of the Lord, and do them ; and that ye seek not after your own heart and your own eyes, after which ye use to go a whoring:
  40 That ye may remember, and do all my commandments, and be holy unto your God.
  41 I am the Lord your God, which brought you out of the land of Egypt, to be your God: I am the Lord your God.

  By our view of things of the man, it didn’t say whether it was an Israelite or foreigner picking up sticks on the sabbath, that was cruel and unusual punishment. Usually if an Israelite committed a crime, they would give the genealogy of the person. I have a tendency to believe that this was a sojourner. because of no ancestry.
  God even instructed them to put fringes on the borders of there garments to remember the commandments and that God brought them out of Egypt.
  They did forget when Joshua and Caleb died.
  It was not only about the sabbath.

• 

  Reply July 27, 2018

  Nelson Banuchi

  I like this especially, “Forgetting God and His works would be a mistreatment of God, an act of injustice to Him.”

  Although specific commands to remember God’s gracious work in our lives in the past may be seldom in the Bible, it is a very important for the proper growth and sanctification of the believer and in maintaining fellowship with God.

  And I agree, forgetting God’s grace in the past in our lives will lead us to be less gracious, if not outright cruel, to those in need in the present.

  Just think about this: apostasy can be the consequence of the simple act of forgetting.

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  Reply July 27, 2018

  Varnel Watson

  Well, bro Scotty Searan what do you think the difference is between legal and illegal? For most people, there is some kind of abstract law somewhere, and immigrants are defined “legal” or “illegal” according to that abstract law. Not in the real world. According to the Immigration and Nationality Act currently in force, all final decisions about immigration or non-immigration travel are made by two top-level bureaucrats of the Federal executive branch: the Secretary of State and the Attorney General. Of course, in the real world, these two are not going to be reviewing every single case before they decide. In reality, it is low level bureaucrats in the consulates or in some office in the US who make the decisions. In the case of immigrants, they have to be persuaded that the applicant is not going to be a burden to the society. How is that done objectively? In the case of non-immigrant travel, the consular worker must be persuaded that the applicant is not a potential immigrant. How is this done objectively? Other than direct information of committed crimes or terrorist activity (which applies to less than one-tenth of a percent of all applicants), there are no objective rules by which that low-level bureaucrat is expected to operate. His decisions are entirely arbitrary. It is on these arbitrary decisions that the difference between “legal” and “illegal” hangs on. And when you hear a Christian or a conservative say that he is all for legal but not for illegal immigration, he is actually saying, “I am all for trusting the subjective decisions of low-level unelected bureaucrats.” Certainly NOT what the BIBLE commands on immigration

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  Reply July 27, 2018

  Scotty Searan

  Simple if you seek to come into this country without following the immigration lawful process you are an illegal. This is the secular view with a secular government and
  Talking about low-level people making decisions. Are you saying the people are not qualified though they may be educated in the process? That don’t hold water

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  Reply July 27, 2018

  Scotty Searan

  1 Corinthians 6:4 4 If then ye have judgments of things pertaining to this life, set them to judge who are least esteemed in the church.

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  Reply July 27, 2018

  Varnel Watson

  The BIBLE has no support for low-level bureaucracy in immigration because such is simply unBiblical It is imposed by the government not GOD

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  Reply July 27, 2018

  Scotty Searan

  Troy Day ok This is a secular society and they do not have to go by the Bible as much as we would like.
  So when they have laws that are put in place we should obey them as long as they do affect our salvation or cause us to comnit sin.
  I find no place in the Bible where it says THOU SHALT NOT HAVE ANY BORDER SECURITY OR LAWS.
  I find there are places where they did build walled cities to protect themselves
  I also find that they have borders in Israel between the tribes.
  I also see where the land that was given to the Levies was for the Levites only.
  YES I am admonished to not oppress the strangers
  Yes I along with the strangers am admonished to obey the laws of the land.
  If I choose to sin in disobeying the laws of the land by bringing illegal immigrants into my home, while it may be good, but it is evil spoken of, will i be able to stand before God and say God forgive me for two sins I presumptuously committed
  I disobeyed the laws of the land.
  Don’t let your good be evil spoken of

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  Reply July 27, 2018

  Varnel Watson

  I understand your point but it does not relate to OP? We the church are in a search for our own theological perspective on these civil issues NOT what some secular government will tell us And IF those laws are unjust we The People are empowered by God Himself to change them with just ones

  Even President Trump said the same sex marriage law needs to be changed. Are you going to obey that law?

  Should have we simply obeyed Jim Crow’s law in AL in the 60s?

  You’d agree that the secular law position you defend has no Biblical value whatsoever Sure you can chose to become a slave to secular legalities, but then you are no longer slave to God alone. No one can serve two masters!

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  Reply July 27, 2018

  Scotty Searan

  Troy Day Address Philemon, Paul and Onesimus.
  Yes we can address changing laws.
  But i would never stand for a country without borders in a secular world and we are a vast minority as Christians in a Secular World.
  I would like to see Christianity as the only religion as the Bible teaches it in our country, but to do so it would take away other people’s freedom

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  Reply July 27, 2018

  Varnel Watson

  Nelson Banuchi Until 20 years ago, the only two groups in America who were concerned about the issue of immigration were the trade unions and a few Democrat politicians. Oh, and also, the Marxist propagandists among the Hispanics who were already here. It would be good to remember that the first vigilante patrols on the border with Mexico were organized by Cesar Chavez and his Marxist goons; they tracked Mexican immigrants (legal or illegal) and beat them up, forcing them to go back to Mexico. This was at the time when Texas ranchers worked to keep the border open and helped their Mexican workers get legal papers in the US.

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  Reply July 28, 2018

  Scotty Searan

  Acts 17:26 King James Version (KJV)

  26 And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation;

• 

  Reply July 28, 2018

  Varnel Watson

  For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in

  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZBSZwde070c

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  Reply July 28, 2018

  Scotty Searan

  https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naturalization_Act_of_1790

  https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_and_Nationality_Act_of_1952

  https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_and_Nationality_Act_of_1965

  Bro. Troy Day : I have lived with Hispanics as my next door neighbors most of my life. I do not mind immigrants coming to this country, legally. It is not wrong to have laws or walls if a country so chooses.
  I have read the arguments pro & con about borders/no borders or walls/ no walls but all the articles that I have read has about no walls or borders have not addressed these scriptures in Numbers and Philemon
  Numbers 15: 15-16, 29-30
  15 One ordinance shall be both for you of the congregation, and also for the stranger that sojourneth with you, an ordinance for ever in your generations: as ye are, so shall the stranger be before the LORD.
  16 One law and one manner shall be for you, and for the stranger that sojourneth with you.
  29 Ye shall have one law for him that sinneth through ignorance, both for him that is born among the children of Israel, and for the stranger that sojourneth among them.
  30 But the soul that doeth oughtpresumptuously, whether he be born in the land, or a stranger, the same reproacheth the LORD; and that soul shall be cut off from among his people.
  I have asked for your comments on these scriptures but you keep coming back with the same scriptures, side stepping these scriptures
  Are they not just as important or maybe more so because these scriptures cover all the laws not just one part.
  There is no scriptures that says you can’t have borders or walls. It is mans interpretation
  If there is to be no restraint coming into this country then remove the constraints from your property also and sell what you have and live on just what you have need if you are going to say keep feeding the illegals and let them come.

• 

  Reply July 28, 2018

  Louise Cummings

• 

  Reply July 28, 2018

  Louise Cummings

• 

  Reply July 28, 2018

  Louise Cummings

• 

  Reply July 28, 2018

  Louise Cummings

• 

  Reply July 28, 2018

  Louise Cummings

  I am so glad you brought this up.But my phone won’t write early. I’ve had a hardt time getting this written. I’ll try l

• 

  Reply July 28, 2018

  Varnel Watson

  Scotty you are mixing the terms Naturalization and immigration are two different terms. I already explained their difference throughout American history Naturalization does not mean immigration Comparing apples to oranges BTW back to OP political asylum does NOT necessarily proceed to naturalization

• 

  Reply July 28, 2018

  Louise Cummings

  I am so glad you brought this’ll tup.But my phone wo

• 

  Reply July 28, 2018

  Varnel Watson

  Scotty Searan The logic is very simple – you cannot have open markets with walled off countries and tariffs. It is not how capitalism works. But you can have socialism ~Cheers

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  Reply July 28, 2018

  Scotty Searan

  Troy Day You are still avoiding. It appears to me you are acting like a liberal by changing the subject, to avoid answering
  Since you brought it up, does the Bible support Capitalism?

• 

  Reply July 28, 2018

  Varnel Watson

  Avoiding what? I have not avoided anything per OP and have spoken straight to the issue without deviation in one direction or another. Do you mean everyone working for the well being of their family, pursuit of happiness and justice for all or what? Since you brought it up, are you implying that the Bible supports socialism? You sure sound like it…

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  Reply July 28, 2018

  Scotty Searan

  Troy Day READ ALL MY COMMENTS I believe it supports Christian socialism more than Capitalism
  Acts 2:44-45
  44 And all that believed were together, and had all things common;

  45 And sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all men, as every man had need.
  Acts 4:34-37
  34 Neither was there any among them that lacked: for as many as were possessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the prices of the things that were sold,

  35 And laid them down at the apostles’ feet: and distribution was made unto every man accordving as he had need.

  36 And Joses, who by the apostles was surnamed Barnabas, (which is, being interpreted, The son of consolation,) a Levite, and of the country of Cyprus,

  37 Having land, sold it, and brought the money, and laid it at the apostles’ feet.

  The people were giving and evidently this is what Jesus wanted the people to do.
  This was pure unadulterated religion.
  The Apostles was doing this also, because they are part of the all.
  I am not pointing my finger at no one, because I am not at this place in my salvation
  And i wonder how many are?
  Jas 1:27 Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.
  Evidently there was a type of Christian socialism going on in Thessalonica because of the problem of people eating and not working.
  2 Thessalonians 3:7-12
  7 For yourselves know how ye ought to follow us: for we behaved not ourselves disorderly among you;

  8 Neither did we eat any man’s bread for nought; but wrought with labour and travail night and day, that we might not be chargeable to any of you: (Compare)

  9 Not because we have not power, but to make ourselves an ensample unto you to follow us.

  10 For even when we were with you, this we commanded you, that if any would not work, neither should he eat.

  11 For we hear that there are some which walk among you disorderly, working not at all, but are busybodies.

  12 Now them that are such we command and exhort by our Lord Jesus Christ, that with quietness they work, and eat their own bread.
  What you have avoided, is in Numbers 15 about the citizens and the stranger obeying the same law and the penalty for intentionally breaking the law
  The immigrants know the laws of this country, because they are schooled in many cases on what to say. They presumptuously brake our laws and the citizens of this country help them
  If gathering sticks on the sabbath would get you killed, and it evidently looks like a stranger was doing this what do you think would happen by these masses if it was in Old Testament times
  I do prefer capitalism over secular socialism and there is a difference

• 

  Reply July 28, 2018

  Scotty Searan

  I can get you reasons by the scriptures why I believe capitalism is wrong

• 

  Reply July 28, 2018

  Varnel Watson

  I still dont see anything avoided. On the contrary, already answered all of your concerns several times. You may want to interpret socialism as Biblical. As a republican I cant stand for socialism with its walled off society and closed market economy #sorry It also seems like you aint got a clue what socialism is. I would have never picked you for a socialist, but I’ve lived to see it

• 

  Reply July 28, 2018

  Scotty Searan

  Troy Day I did not say I was a socialist..
  But i did give scriptures showing and you cannot deny that for a short while the Early Church was a Christian socialist society, as a matter of fact leading to the first deacons. I can’t help what has happened now in our churches and world.
  Please answer was the early church in Acts around the the Annanias and Sapphire debuncle practicing Christian Socialism?

• 

  Reply July 29, 2018

  Scotty Searan

  One of the major driving forces in capitalism is supply and demand.
  Is supply and demand scriptural?
  Was it permitted under the Jewish law?

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  Reply July 29, 2018

  Varnel Watson

  You can ask Tom Steele about the law Max Weber answers the rest for you I, however, cannot agree with Christian socialism #sorry but thanks for letting us know your position

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  Reply July 30, 2018

  Scotty Searan

  Troy Day Tell me that this is not a form of Christian socialism and why not. Also notice the word ALL.
  It was not mandatory
  I believe you are looking through secular socialism rose colored glasses.
  Acts 2:42-47
  42 And they continued stedfastly in the apostles’ doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.

  43 And fear came upon every soul: and many wonders and signs were done by the apostles.

  44 And all that believed were together, and had all things common;

  45 And sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all men, as every man had need.

  46 And they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart,

  47 Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved

• 

  Reply July 30, 2018

  Varnel Watson

  Never thought about it that way but from your read it has nothing to do with socialism or the socialist order

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  Reply July 30, 2018

  Scotty Searan

  Troy Day What is socialism to you?

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  Reply July 30, 2018

  Varnel Watson

  What is to me matters little. What is socialism in the real world we live in, especially closed markets and closed borders, may be of everyones concern

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  Reply July 31, 2018

  Scotty Searan

  Troy Day I am not saying it will work. Because it didn’t with racism raising its ugly head
  But in Acts for a short while did the church perform its duties as a socialist body of believers? If they didn’t tell me difference between what they did and socialism (everyone as they needed)

• 

  Reply July 28, 2018

  Varnel Watson

  Ha ha, what a beautiful irony.
  ““I’m being treated like a criminal by the Polish government. It’s just insane,” Spencer said at the time. “I haven’t done anything. What are they accusing me of?””
  Uh, that’s what thousands of Mexicans, Salvadoreans, Guatemalans, Hondurans, etc., are asking, too. The only difference is that they are hard-working folks, while Spencer is a lazy leech. http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/395745-richard-spencer-confirms-ban-on-traveling-to-european-countries

• 

  Reply July 30, 2018

  Scotty Searan

  Question. This article says he is “white nationalist” or alt-right.
  How are white nationalist or alt-right treated in our country.

• 

  Reply July 30, 2018

  Varnel Watson

  They are the guys against open borders The irony is that they were faced with a closed border

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  Reply July 31, 2018

  Scotty Searan

  Troy Day They have no complaint.

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  Reply July 29, 2018

  Varnel Watson

  From January 20, 2017 through June 30, 2018, the ABC, CBS and NBC evening news programs spent a combined 995 minutes discussing various immigration topics, or roughly one-sixth of all coverage of the administration. Since Inauguration Day, only the Russia investigation has received more airtime (1,680 minutes).

  The next-most-covered topic, the nuclear confrontation with North Korea, garnered 719 minutes of airtime, or about 4 1/2 fewer hours of coverage than immigration. Even in June, when the evening newscasts devoted very heavy coverage (132 minutes) to North Korea and the historic June 12 summit between President Trump and dictator Kim Jong-un, these broadcasts spent nearly twice the airtime on the administration’s zero tolerance policy and the resulting separations of illegal immigrant parents and their children.

• 

  Reply July 30, 2018

  Varnel Watson

  Scotty Searan SOCIALISM:

  1. Favor only one TV media and outlaw the rest as fake news
  2. Fire everyone in the said TV who dare oppose you
  3. Fire everyone in the government who dare oppose you
  4. Meet with other world socialist leaders behind close doors
  5. Implement tax reforms that favors only the rich
  6. Create substitute/fake jobs and make everything expensive again
  7. Build a Berlin Wall but bigger and better
  8. Marry a woman from the Socialist block
  9. Marry another woman from the Socialist block
  10. Tell everyone you are venture capitalist republican
  11. Allow no immigration, emigration or migration
  12. Tax heavily all imports from open markets

  WAIT Nelson Banuchi Jan Dixon Sykes Joseph Kidwell
  What am I talking about?

• 

  Reply July 30, 2018

  Nelson Banuchi

  Putin and his cronies are capitalists in a socialist (is “communist” outdated?) country…

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  Reply July 30, 2018

  Varnel Watson

  naah a true capitalist country would have never had them

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  Reply August 2, 2018

  Scotty Searan

  Troy Day How do ypu get this field. You are saying these things is socialism, but are they

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  Reply July 31, 2018

  Scotty Searan

  Troy Day Christian socialism wasn’t talking about these issues. Your glasses sure are tinted as John Conlee sang about

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  Reply July 31, 2018

  Scotty Searan

  President Trump has never said #11, thereby making your remarks Fake remarks

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  Reply July 31, 2018

  Nelson Banuchi

  Scotty Searan: (1) you deny he said #11, but your haven’t denied he said the other 11 things on the list; (2) that he did not say, as you suggest, #11, does not mean all the others are invalidated; that’s like saying because a Calvinist believes in eternal security every other doctrine he teaches is false or, in their case, “fake news.”

  (Note: This is not a matter of whether or not I agree with you; it is only a matter if of logic).

• 

  Reply July 31, 2018

  Varnel Watson

  Hold on Scotty Searan who said what #11?
  I never said anyone said #11
  I was answering your question on Christian socialism.

  Are we still discussing Christian socialism or are you back on the political band wagon?

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  Reply August 1, 2018

  Scotty Searan

  Troy Day I never insinuated, much less said that Christian socialism could not have immigrants
  Who made up that list

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  Reply August 1, 2018

  Scotty Searan

  Nelson Banuchi With all President Trumps twittering it looks like he may have said or could be interpreted as saying.
  I do not agree the list take on #5 and #6
  His tax cuts did not only help the rich. I am retired. And our rsisr

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  Reply August 1, 2018

  Nelson Banuchi

  Scotty Searan Thanks for clarifying your thinking on this.

• 

  Reply August 1, 2018

  Varnel Watson

  Scotty Searan the fake news is that you insinuated that I insinuated something which I did not.

  The Bible calls this false witnesses and I can only presume you do not wish to be found as false witness

  Socialism was known was the Eastern Block behind the Berlin Wall namely because it did NOT allow migration of any kind. Just like in the feudal system, a peasant or worker known was attached to a piece of land or the city where born. Virtually no emigration is allowed under socialism. Read on it some

  A Christian socialism is like HillSong – just another secular concert dressed up to look like church

• 

  Reply August 2, 2018

  Scotty Searan

  Troy Day no i don’t want to be a false witness, it appears as i stated.
  But you are comparing Christian socialism, as i call it, to seculat socialism. There is no comparison of the two.
  Secular socialism does not give as needed. It gives what they want you to have. I am not an advocate of seculat socialism, because it treats people as slaves.
  In reading the accounts in the book of Acts they were not treating each other differently in the beginning.
  The rich was associating with the common person and vice/versa.
  The Holy Ghost brought the rich down and lifted up the poor so they all were common.
  Apostles were given to the people what they need. Philippians 4:19 is a verse often used.
  19 But my God shall supply all your need according to his riches in glory by Christ Jesus.
  Please give me your interpretation of Acts 2:42-47, and Acts 4:31-37. This is not Hillsong. This is Bible, black and white.
  Acts 2:42 And they continued stedfastly in the apostles’ doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.

  43 And fear came upon every soul: and many wonders and signs were done by the apostles.

  44 And all that believed were together, and had all things common;

  45 And sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all men, as every man had need.

  46 And they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart,

  47 Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.

  Acts 4:31 And when they had prayed, the place was shaken where they were assembled together; and they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and they spake the word of God with boldness.

  32 And the multitude of them that believed were of one heart and of one soul: neither said any of them that ought of the things which he possessed was his own; but they had all things common.

  33 And with great power gave the apostles witness of the resurrection of the Lord Jesus: and great grace was upon them all.

  34 Neither was there any among them that lacked: for as many as were possessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the prices of the things that were sold,

  35 And laid them down at the apostles’ feet: and distribution was made unto every man according as he had need.

  36 And Joses, who by the apostles was surnamed Barnabas, (which is, being interpreted, The son of consolation,) a Levite, and of the country of Cyprus,

  37 Having land, sold it, and brought the money, and laid it at the apostles’ feet.

  I have stepped out of the Paradigm and gave my interpretation.
  Step out of your Paradigm and give me your interpretation.
  If I am wrong SHOW ME where I am wrong. Don’t just brush off and say something is or isn’t without your interpretation

• 

  Reply August 2, 2018

  Scotty Searan

  Troy Day Did you not say when the tax cuts was given, you didn’t get a tax cut? I might be wrong, a lot of water under the bridge or is that fake news on my part.

• 

  Reply July 31, 2018

  Donald Phillips

  So, what is the difference between DEMOCRATIC SOCIALISM and SOCIALIST SOCIALISM? …is REPUBLICAN SOCIALISM a thing? …is TRUMP SOCIALISM a thing?

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  Reply July 31, 2018

  Varnel Watson

  all socialism is the same – only the name will change

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  Reply August 1, 2018

  Scotty Searan

  There is a difference between Christian socialism and secular socialism p
  Christian Socialism people give freely to the church leadership and the Christian leadership gives to everyone as needed with no one having a higher standard of living. The Christian Socialist have all in common. That is the way I believe Jesus Christ taught his disciples on this earth. Why do i think so. Because of the way the early church in Acts started
  But racism and discrimination as well as covetousness raised its ugly head and they disbanded the practice over time.
  Secular socialism is about taking and forcibly making you comply.

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  Reply August 1, 2018

  Varnel Watson

  naah bro Scotty you are just confused about it

• 

  Reply August 1, 2018

  Jan Dixon Sykes

  Please explain to us what Scotty got wrong, Troy. Throwing out that Scotty is confused is about Scotty, not about what was wrong with his conclusion.

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  Reply August 2, 2018

  Scotty Searan

  Troy Day How, tell me? If I am confused then show me.

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  Reply August 2, 2018

  Varnel Watson

  yes you are confused about socialism – how many times do I have to show you? Seems beyond repair

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  Reply August 1, 2018

  Varnel Watson

  Thank you for clarifying Donald Phillips Christian socialism is like HillSong – just another secular concert dressed up to look like church

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  Reply August 1, 2018

  Donald Phillips

  I am interested in Jan’s question. She is a very smart lady and deserves a response.

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  Reply August 1, 2018

  Varnel Watson

  What was her question?

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  Reply August 1, 2018

  Donald Phillips

  She asked you to clarify what Scotty got wrong when he said there was a difference between Christian socialism and socialist socialism.

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  Reply August 1, 2018

  Varnel Watson

  She asked me to clarify Scotty? How can I possible do that? Wouldnt it be better for him to clarify? I make no difference

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  Reply August 1, 2018

  Donald Phillips

  You said there was no difference between Christian Socialism and Socialist Socialism, but you did not respond to Scotty’s arguments, you only responded with a general statement that he was wrong. Jan asked you to clarify. I guess you are claiming that you don’t need to respond to his points, but we are supposed to merely take your word for it and believe that socialist socialism and Christian socialism are the same. Is that what you meant to imply?

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  Reply August 1, 2018

  Varnel Watson

  I believe all socialism/communism is of the devil https://christianactionleague.org/news/karl-marx-the-devil-and-a-socialist-america/

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  Reply August 1, 2018

  Donald Phillips

  Jan does not argue much, but I have known her for about 6 years online, and she is generally on target with her questions. I am a little confused at this.

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  Reply August 1, 2018

  Varnel Watson

  Donald Phillips good questions BUT I cannot answer for Jan or Scotty You can ask them nicely I suppose

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  Reply August 1, 2018

  Varnel Watson

  Speaking of Christianity, although many Progressive Christian churches often applaud and commend socialist principles (there is only a sliver of difference between socialism and communism), the church has traditionally, and rightly condemned this system of thought.

  The church condemns socialism because the Scriptures teach that private property is a God-given right.

  Economic systems perpetuating or constructing dependence, while also rewarding sloth, strike at the very heart of what it means to be a human being. Both socialism and communism suppress the image of God in man, his creativity and productivity, punishing individuals when they succeed, even when their success is attained by a legitimate means. Class warfare is certainly wrong, but it’s not inevitable. Moreover, the Scriptures reject earthly utopian visions as untenable, declaring that Christ is the Savior of the world and not government.

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  Reply August 2, 2018

  Varnel Watson

  Nelson Banuchi Joseph Kidwell it was long long ago when I first stated that the so-called “republican” liberals who stand against
  – free markets
  – open borders
  – and support totalitarian governments vs minimal involvement

  border nothing else but socialism. Months later Jan Dixon Sykes Scotty Searan are openly defending socialism as Christian and Donald Phillips is asking me to explain why so

  Well, I’ve already done it so many times that it got old. No Reagan republican like myself can ever support anything socialist, communistic or anything of that bolshevik gang GOD never ordained socialism Just read the end of the Book – we end up with theorcratic monarchy – exactly what socialism was created to oppose #hello

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  Reply August 3, 2018

  Scotty Searan

  Troy Day I am no socialist. I am not a communist.
  Because I ask you to interpret the happenings in the early church in Acts 2,4 and 5 because you are a theologian, but you have not showed me the courtesy of so.
  Is not it possible that Jesus Christ taught a variation of Socialism because of things happening on the Day of Pentecost
  What made the people do it for a brand new religion?
  Yes I agree that God did provide for private property
  But I do not believe the Bible supports the supply and demand of capitalism.
  Supply and demand exploits the poor and benefits the rich creating a wider gap in the two.
  If I understand the laws about redeeming and buying and selling the prices were established by the priest and kept their for 50 years.
  I am not a socialist, because I believe the Bible and maybe Jesus Christ taught a variation of Socialism
  I would appreciate you quit bearing false witness on me about that.

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  Reply August 3, 2018

  Varnel Watson

  Jenzten says it all https://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/2018/06/16/jeff-sessions-bible-jentezen-franklin-immigration-erin-intv.cnn

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  Reply August 3, 2018

  Ricky Grimsley

  Jentzen needs to stick with the Daniel fast. The only way they let you on cnn is if you have something bad to say about the president. He go used by the devil. He needs to recognize

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  Reply August 3, 2018

  Varnel Watson

  Daniels fast is no fast at all. More like a diet after getting holiday fat. Fast after fat they call it – its the new fad. BUT Jentzen is backed on this one by Perry, Hill, Samuel Rodrigez and many others. Not to mention the ones that have already left the spiritual board of the President as I just told Scotty Searan

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  Reply August 3, 2018

  Ricky Grimsley

  Samuel Rodriguez is a globalist minion. Perry stone stone was used as a stooge for the bush administration for years.

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  Reply August 3, 2018

  Varnel Watson

  Samuel Rodriguez said the name of Jesus at the Capitol prayer after it has not been mentioned there for many many presidents WHO used Perry? The Bushes? – do tell

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  Reply August 3, 2018

  Ricky Grimsley

  Perry went on and on about how Bush was a Christian and how saddam had weapons of mass destruction and all that lie. Rodriguez is a dominion theologian who counts the pope as the leader of the church.

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  Reply August 3, 2018

  Ricky Grimsley

  Bush wasn’t a Christian. He was a globalist minion free-mason skull and bones guy.

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  Reply August 3, 2018

  Varnel Watson

  says who?

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  Reply August 3, 2018

  Ricky Grimsley

  Where have you been?

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  Reply August 3, 2018

  Ricky Grimsley

  https://youtu.be/gwJDs1cg9Eo

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  Reply August 3, 2018

  Varnel Watson

  I was asking WHO says Perry had anything to do with them?

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  Reply August 3, 2018

  Ricky Grimsley

  Perry stone said all the time how he talked to people close to bush who said he was a Christian. He got used just like Joel rosenburg

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  Reply August 3, 2018

  Ricky Grimsley

  You guys just don’t understand how deep this rabbit hole goes.

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  Reply August 4, 2018

  Varnel Watson

  Guess I missed where Parry said that

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  Reply November 4, 2018

  Varnel Watson

  Nelson Banuchi will be able to post your UN link on how many thousands of children are suffering in the caravan?

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  Reply November 4, 2018

  Dave Larson

  Thanks for asking, Troy Daniel Day II. I’d suggest:

  1. Recognizing that the church already is helping. Mexican Christians are reaching out, and Christian Hondurans and Guatemalans are some of its leaders. WE (white gringos) are not the only “church’ here.

  2. Help them…to help the weaker. I haven’t searched, but I bet if u do u can find ways – through World Relief and/or other Christian NGOS – to help them help the helpers. If they aren’t helping directly, I bet they can help u to find someone who is.

  3. Recognize that in this case our private efforts aren’t enough. Our representatives (gov leaders) are having a HUGE influence. Given this, we need to “encourage” them to DO the RIGHT THING…e.g. not shooting kids who throw rocks.

  Uust a few thougths. Hope this helps. Thanks for asking.

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  Reply November 5, 2018

  Dave Larson

  P.S. I just did a longer version of the above on my timeline.

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  Reply November 5, 2018

  Varnel Watson

  One thing I am realizing very slowly on the news We are told that CNN WP etc are anti-republican, anti-christian fake news Granted But could it also be that hey are porting on news that Fox news is hushing down and never mentioning. Which one is more of a fake news act?

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  Reply November 5, 2018

  Dave Larson

  Easy. FOX

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  Reply November 6, 2018

  Varnel Watson

  what do you mean?

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  Reply November 6, 2018

  Dave Larson

  U asked “which is more of a fake news..”.

  I answered – FOX.

  CNN is NOT “anti-Christian” – that’s nonsense. I watch a wide-variety of sources, and see no overall such “bias” in CNN. Meanwhile, I GAG when I hear the blatant Trumpaganda on Faux News. U gotta be pretty brain-dead to believe much of their obviously-made-up crap.

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  Reply November 5, 2018

  Varnel Watson

  Fox hides most good news BBC covers it all fox=fake? I just cannot understand the lack of compassion among so many of the white Evangelicals. At times, I have wondered if we are all reading the same Bible. The last Church of God I pastored was the Milwaukee Metro Church of God located in Milwaukee, Wisconsin. Within a short time, we were a majority Latino congregation. Our Associate Pastor and her family was undocumented as were quite a few who worshipped with us on Sunday. These precious people worked 2 or more jobs doing work that most Americans don’t want to do. They did not come here to rape women or “steal our jobs” as Trump alleges. They were my brothers & sisters in Christ. This is personal for me. Listen, we have record low unemployment and we need workers, particularly in the agricultural and service sector. If as a Christian, your politics comes before your commitment to Jesus, then you are not truly a disciple of the Lord Jesus Christ.

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  Reply November 6, 2018

  Dave Larson

  Preach it, Pastor!!!! U da man.

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  Reply February 20, 2019

  Varnel Watson

  Its an important issue of Pentecostal and social concern

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  Reply August 18, 2019

  Varnel Watson

  take heed LeeLee Hall take heed @ your location

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  Reply August 18, 2019

  LeeLee Hall

  Troy Day Unfortunately I can only read this partially because I only have my phone . I will have to send it to my husbands phone to read it later. Thanks !!