Practical application of Pentecostal theology in politics, economy and social issues
Pastors, Preachers (or anyone else): Your best argument or scripture for paid/full time ministry. This is a sincere question. I am doing a lot of praying and soul searching. Thank you.
After they are defeated by the Israelites at Rephidim, God promises unending judgement on Amalek in Exodus 17:
14Then the Lord said to Moses, “Write this as a memorial in a book and recite it in the ears of Joshua, that I will utterly blot out the memory of Amalek from under heaven.” 15And Moses built an altar and called the name of it, The Lord Is My Banner, 16saying, “A hand upon the throne of the Lord! The Lord will have war with Amalek from generation to generation.” ESV
The reason for the judgement and the form of the judgement are given in slightly more detail in Deuteronomy 25:
17“Remember what Amalek did to you on the way as you came out of Egypt, 18how he attacked you on the way when you were faint and weary, and cut off your tail, those who were lagging behind you, and he did not fear God. 19Therefore when the Lord your God has given you rest from all your enemies around you, in the land that the Lord your God is giving you for an inheritance to possess, you shall blot out the memory of Amalek from under heaven; you shall not forget. ESV
What I find difficult to understand is how ‘the Lord will have war with Amalek from generation to generation’ if their memory has been blotted out from under heaven. Am I missing the Hebrew idiom here? Is one or other of the statements not to be taken literally, and if so, which one?
Louise Cummings
I love the Word, on the Cross or Resurrection. Some parts are harder to preach, like warning Scriptures.
Joe Absher
Luke 14:27 KJV — And whosoever doth not bear his cross, and come after me, cannot be my disciple.
You have to decide what it is you really want. How much it costs and are you willing to pay the price? If you want to serve God you have to know God and obey God and desire him and obey him and honor him and give him tge glory in everything! You can do that pushing a broom or washing windows or anything else if it’s his calling for your life
Louise Cummings
Great Scripture. Should Jesus bear the Cross alone. And all the world go free? No there’s a Cross for every one. And there’s a Cross for me.
Ray E Horton
Jesus did bear the cross alone. We can do nothing to contribute to what He did for our redemption. Any cross that we bear is simply for our own growth, facing the challenges of this world with love and trust in the Lord so that He can work them to our good and strengthen us. The devil wanted to stop Jesus, and he wants to stop us. Jesus had the victory through the pain, and we can too in Him. In some ways, though, it seems that calling what we face a cross is a bit demeaning to what Jesus went through.
Louise Cummings
On. Anyone should know when we are carrying the cross of Jesus or helping Darry His Cross Should know that just because we have a cross , means we are going to face trials and temptations. And face some trials it seems so hard to get through. But then we look at Jesus , what he faced before He went to the Cross. But then what He suffered in the Cross was beyond knowing how to tell. But He said He made it and we can too, by our full faith and trust in Him. I started writing a song about Jesus on the Cross. Thou I am not a song writer. Sometimes I go to my little keyboard and just start singing. And words will come to me. And I just sing it to Jesus. Because I know they are not to publish. It’s for a blessing the Lord is giving me then but to show you what I mean about the Cross. I’ll write the last verse down. It’s isn’t perfect for a song. But it was to bless me. It says ( As His Blood Came streaming down.; From His Body to the ground ; He was weak from the wounds He received. ; when the crowd, began to yell. ; Underneath His loaf He fell. ; And through Faith, in Jesus Name , we are Redeemed. ;!). The chorus says. ( Thou His Pain , can’t be told. ; By His Love we are made Whole. ; He was abused by the Stripes on His Back ; If by Faith , we touch His Blood ; Jesus shed with so much Love ; By His Stripes , we are healed in Jesus Name. ). I might as well write down the first verse. Funny. I drafted st the last verse now to the first verse. ( Jesus walked up Calvary’s Hill ; He saw us in His Will. ;All the pain we would suffer , here below ; we have nothing to compare,To the pain He had to bear; As He suffered, Willingly, for you and me. ). So I just put things together while setting at the key board just getting a blessing from Him. And what He had to suffer , for us to have this so great Salvation. Then I sign that I wrote it and mail it back to me. They say that is poor boy copy writing. Although. I don’t if it would ever mean anything out of it. But me. Who’ll I’m by myself I do things like that and get a blessing my self. But I wrote that to you to say what I mean us having a Ross to bear. If you don’t like the song or it’s isn’t Biblical. I will erase. But just wanted you to know how I feel. But even that isn’t a start. No one like Jesus.
Ray E Horton
Louise Cummings You have a good heart sister, and I do like what you wrote. It’s about “His” cross, not ours. What we suffer is peanuts compared to His. But yes, we should bear up in our circumstances in trust, for it is He that has set us free.
Louise Cummings
Ray E Horton That’s what I meant. I way we could ever know what He suffered. That is the reason I wrote in the first verseJesus walked up calvarys Hill , He saw us in His Will , Of all the pain we would suffer here below. But we behave nothing to compare. To all the pain He had to fear. Meaning there’s Noe way we could our pain with the pain He had to bear. There no way we could never know what He suffered. It was more than the pain on the Cross. His heart was littersl had the weight of the sins of the world on His shoulders. And Jerusalem , He loved so much. But they wouldn’t believe Who He Was. Kings of Kings , and Lord Of Lords. He looked out over Jerusalem before He went to The Cross. And said. How oft would I have gathered you together like a hen gathers her chicks under her wings. And you would not. They would not believe Who He Was. So sad. I’m sorry for keeping you up so late.
Varnel Watson
so far so good
Link Hudson
You are assuming my position on this.
I do not like the term ‘full-time ministry’. It’s misleading and reinforces the unhelpful notion of ministry as a vocation like being a plumber, salesman, or janitor.
I can think of three lines of teaching in the New Testament that relate to this:
— They that preach the Gospel should live of the Gospel from I Corinthians 9. This applied to apostles, in the immediate context, and may also apply to evangelists (real evangelists as opposed to ititerant ministers who do not evangelize).
— He that is taught in the word should share in all good things with him that teacheth.
–The elders that rule well are worthy of double honor, especially those that minister in preaching and teaching.
Honor (time: pronouced like ‘tea may’ without the dipthongs for the y sound on both words) can refer to compensation, and had been used that way at least since the time of Homer. In the story, Achilles was given ‘time’ in the form of a slave girl and other rewards in a battle. The commander did not like something he said and took his ‘honor’ away from him by taking the slave girl he’d been sleeping with away from him, so he refused to fight until Patroclos was killed.
The widows in I Timothy 5 receive ‘honor’ as well if they are on the list and meet certain qualifications.
None of these passages mention a set monthly salary. The apostles appointed elders from within the very local congregations they were a part of (Acts 14, see also Titus 1.) The elders were told to pastor the church of God, and were called bishops (Acts 20:28.) They already ruled their houses well, so they must have had some way to provide for their households before becoming elders. It does not stand to reason that they were all pure career pastors.
Varnel Watson
why am I assuming? I am simply asking a question – arent you misinterpreting my words again?
Link Hudson
Troy Day You could have asked for or against.
Varnel Watson
I simply asked:
Your best argument or scripture for paid/full time ministry is…
Guess I could have said ABOUT, but then it wouldnt have made sense to you again
Joe Absher
Of course that great line from David, “is there not a cause”
But here is another.
Exodus 35:21 KJV — And they came, every one whose heart stirred him up, and every one whom his spirit made willing, and they brought the LORD’S offering to the work of the tabernacle of the congregation, and for all his service, and for the holy garments.
Is your spirit stirred up to follow God where he leads you. And work. As he gives the grace and ability and opportunity
Varnel Watson
I read what Link Hudson posted and sill dont know his take on this one
Link Hudson
My post is reasonably long and detailed. Do you have a specific question about it?
Varnel Watson
I had a question about you assuming that I assumed something which I did not assume – why do you constantly misinterpretation what others say?
Link Hudson
Troy Day I lost you and do not care to reread the thread. You seemed to be assuming I was in favor of paid full-time ministry. I’m not sure where I put my post about the three categories– preachers of the gospel, teachers, and elders. It’s in a subthread I believe.
Varnel Watson
Why would you again assuming that I am assuming that? I never said I assumed that or spoke of your favors ? I simply asked a question
Link Hudson
Troy Day The wording of your question. But this is metadiscussion.
Link Hudson
What is your take on the issue?
Varnel Watson
The wording of my question could be interpreted either way Why would you assume I did not mean simply “about” but jump into conclusions misinterpreting what I said?
Joe Absher
Forget it go home.