Practical application of Pentecostal theology in politics, economy and social issues
Kingdom Now/Dominion Theology is so bad. It’s terrible how most pentecostals are unaware of its power.
The Religious, Charismatic/NAR Right Wing peeps are a danger to Christians everywhere.
In Eph. 1:10, the Greek text according to the Textus Receptus states,
Ιʹ εἰς οἰκονομίαν τοῦ πληρώματος τῶν καιρῶν ἀνακεφαλαιώσασθαι τὰ πάντα ἐν τῷ Χριστῷ τὰ τε ἐν τοῖς οὐρανοῖς καὶ τὰ ἐπὶ τῆς γῆς TR, 1550
According to my understanding, the idea is that everything in heaven and upon earth is recapitulated (from the lemma ἀνακεφαλαιῶ), that is, brought under a single head, “in Christ.” Although it has a few meanings, I understand “in Christ” here to mean, “by being a Christian and being incorporated into the body of Christ.” That being said, I can understand what “everything that/everyone who is upon the earth” («τὰ πάντα…τὰ ἐπὶ τῆς γῆς») refers to, which would be Christians alive on earth (i.e., the Church militant).
However, to what or whom does the phrase “everything that/everyone who is in heaven” («τὰ πάντα…τὰ…ἐν τοῖς οὐρανοῖς») refer? Do the other verses in the epistle shed any light on its meaning or referent?
Varnel Watson
How do you mean unaware? CBN and the 700 make sure we get a daily daussage of that worldly mess they call dominion theology. Now Fuller is in the news for stuff they were never meant to get involved with. The problem in our American church is that we cannot deal with our own mess at home but keep on spreading it around the world under a fake theological pretext. I named just a few of this liberistic movements in the past week alone. Dan Irving has a whole series. To what end is all this political push in our churches today that have poisoned with liberal arts theology so many even in this group? http://www.pentecostaltheology.com/new-combined-topic-on-nar/
Varnel Watson
Ify Divine Nsoha If you are thinking, “This must be talking about liberal evangelical leaders,” think twice. Someone as conservative as Albert Mohler said it. “Trump,” he said, “reveals ignorance on historic pro-life position.”
If you don’t know what that “historic pro-life position” is, let me help you: It’s the code word for that agreement between churchian celebrities and politicians to use abortion as a continuing propaganda point for each election cycle, never really ending it, and never really doing anything about it. The politicians get PAC money and votes and power and then lobbyist money. Pastors and ministry leaders get their seat at the table – or under the table – of the political establishment. It’s crumbs, of course, but they get to look important on TV. And then remind their listeners to vote for the same politicians every 2 years.
Trump recanted later. Of course he would. The point was not to express his position. The point was to make the churchian leaders expose their own antinomianism and schizophrenia. And he achieved it. Brilliantly.
Varnel Watson
NAR Kingdom-now slide cost AG many of their churches in 1999-2000 after they allowed Wagner in in a series of scholarly essays titled CALLED and EMPOWERED. Several of his essays were included about evangelism, mission and church growth at the turn of the 21st century. Wagner establishes a winning goal for AoG which was later abandoned and to some extend he was forced to formed his NAR to further the vision. The essay conclusions still affect our AG churches even today.
https://www.amazon.com/Called-Empowered-Mission-Pentecostal-Perspective/dp/080104605X
Varnel Watson
Dan Irving I am re-starting this conversation out of the group on purpose. Not as a private chat either but more of a indepth survey of NAR Ify Divine Nsoha had brought to out attention his exclamation of their theology We are simply putting it in context.
It is not JUST NAR – it is the whole kingdom-now movement leading rightist conservative Christians astray right now Robert Borders The danger is immanent Nelson Banuchi Joseph Kidwell
Dan Irving
It is “bad” theology because it is error. It is “terrible” theology because of its real consequence of sabotaging faith and men’s hope of entering the kingdom of God through sanctification. It is a “doctrine of devils” because it is attended by supernatural signs.
Varnel Watson
Dan Irving it’s also some sort of personal revelation bestowed only upon the chosen ones. The times of Moses are long gone. Since Christ there is the priesthood of all believers. I’ve been pointing out to Ricky Grimsley in recent weeks that a personal revelation of Scripture does not have much Biblical support. Sure God speaks to us as individuals but He also speaks to us as a corporate body of believers; meaning God speaks the same thing not one thing to one person and another to the group – the Word is the same. The opposite is a cult like Wacco-type thinking that leads astray from the Word. IMP NAR has much of that – and not merely in Wagners “new” ideas for ministry but at the point where the priesthood of all believers is taken for granted and submitted at the altar of personal revelation of apostles and prophets over persons, movements, peoples and sometimes even whole nations. It waint working – thats for sure There is no personal revelation of Scripture apart from the community of believers – hence the cult danger warning we must concern ourselves with in these last days
Ricky Grimsley
Lol are you saying that I claim to have some personal revelation?
Dan Irving
Troy Day, God reveals truth from His word to individuals all the time. In fact, I believe revelation is more apt to occur during times when he draws an individual away into isolation.
Varnel Watson
Did God reveal truth from His Word about Trump being Cyrus the Great? That’s a pretty personal revelation
Ricky Grimsley
I doubt it. I don’t believe it’s true.
Dan Irving
No revelation there. The Trump/Cyrus scheme was hatched within the charismatic/New Prophetic milieu.
Varnel Watson
And there is my point on personal revelation or better said personalized revelation forced over a large body of believers that is generally the NAR strategy we should be theologically against Theology that affects politics and the nation
Dan Irving
Yes. That falling into the diverse-and-strange-teaching classification.
Ricky Grimsley
I’ve never claimed to have personal revelation. We have different views.
Melvin Shomo
Troy Day have you heard Kim Clements Prophesy on Donald Trump back in 2007
Melvin Shomo
https://youtu.be/eFfFtq1fljY
Varnel Watson
was he wrong?
Melvin Shomo
So far he hasn’t been wrong.
But we will have to see on the second term whether or not he is a 100% right.
He didn’t call him Cyrus that’s for sure.
I didn’t think Trump would be standing at the end. A matter of a fact I wanted Ted Cruz to get the nomination.
But when Trump pulled ahead I still thought that he wouldn’t get elected.
But as I observed I felt within my spirit that he was going to become the President.
The Kim Clement Prophesy I had no recollection of until after he became President.
I actually stumbled across the video..
Varnel Watson
Is 45:11 says Cyrus shall command GOD
Do you think a point will come where Trump will command GOD? The literal Hebrew actually says to give orders
Melvin Shomo
You will have to explain what you mean by command God
Melvin Shomo
Thus saith the LORD, the Holy One of Israel, and his Maker, Ask me of things to come concerning my sons, and concerning the work of my hands command ye me. Isaiah 45:11
Melvin Shomo
Are you able to say unto this mountian be moved over hence?
Mathew 21:20 And when the disciples saw it, they marvelled, saying, How soon is the fig tree withered away!
21 Jesus answered and said unto them, Verily I say unto you, If ye have faith, and doubt not, ye shall not only do this which is done to the fig tree, but also if ye shall say unto this mountain, Be thou removed, and be thou cast into the sea; it shall be done.
22 And all things, whatsoever ye shall ask in prayer, believing, ye shall receive.
Varnel Watson
Commanding mountains 1 thing
Commanding God completely another thing
Melvin Shomo
How is Trump going to command God?
Did you get a word from God? ,?
Varnel Watson
IMP he aint but the guy from the video got a word that he will?
Melvin Shomo
I take Prophesy with a grain of salt.
The same with Kim’s second term Prophesy.
I believe that Trump will get a second term.
But we will see if Trump gets filled with the Holy Ghost.
If he keeps hanging around the firery preachers he just might get filled up
Scotty Searan
Troy Day we had a senior evangelist she’s 88 years old
She started ministering when she was 16 years old after she had been preaching for about 4 or 5 years her Daddy had a heart attack and bad and here’s the way she prayed
God I have preached your word that you would heal you even said that I could raise people from the dead my God is your time the back your word you have got to do something now because my mother needs her husband to be a dad and his family so it’s time and you come on the scene and perform America now
She said that in the pulpit and I question her and I showed her scripture about commanding God and she said in my spirit I did command God to come on the scene and help me of my daddy was dead that I was being honest with God I wrote down what she said and I just thought I would share this with you
Scotty Searan
Troy Day allow me to share one other incident and this happened in my life I don’t remember it but I have talked to some witnesses I had asthma real bad when I was less than a year old my mother was in the backslidden state my daddy told my mother she had better get right that God was going to take me but that morning it was a Sunday morning my dad went to Collinsville Oklahoma First Assembly of God brother Miller told me to who was the pastor my dad went to the altar you should God you either heal my child today on it your word does that sound like a command
Ricky Grimsley
peter and John said “ such as I have we give unto you”
Ricky Grimsley
What did they “have”?
Scotty Searan
Ricky Grimsley they had the power of the Holy Ghost
You know the Bible says in my name you shall cast out devils you shall heal the sick you shall lay hands on them and they will recover you didn’t say Jesus would lay hands on them and they will recover he just said you use their name and that we could do these things not Jesus for the power of the Holy Ghost and we can do the thing
Don’t get me wrong none of us could do these things on their own but he did say we could do them and Paul did say I can do all things through Christ Jesus which strengthens me that is with the power of the Holy Ghost and use it Jesus’s name we can do it
Varnel Watson
Dan Irving we’ve discussed this NAR private revelation with Scotty Searan many times. He says lets wait and see. I say church should be proactive and discern such prophecies especially when NAR and kingdom-now theology are their foundations ie the desire of some churchmen to become statesmen and rule the nation without Christ physically present upon His final return to this earth
Link Hudson
Troy Day I was talking about Apostolic as an alternative label for Pentecostalism, not calling leaders apostle. Apostle does not mean “great anointed leader”-the NAR understanding of it.
Varnel Watson
Link Hudson Hence the danger of cross posting Apostolic is not an alternative label for Pentecostalism I believe I clearly showed why and Dan Irving made even a stronger case for that when he wrote
“Sep 1906, “The Apostolic Faith.” The first edition attempted to rally those who had received the Pentecostal baptism around certain figures who held to the 3-step formula of “Saved, Sanctified, Baptized” (and that, in no other order,) and there was no little skirmish between the Wesleyan Pentecostals (who tended to hold to the “apostolic” reference) and the non-Wesleyans who did not insist upon this doctrine. I think the Wesleyan’s attempted to garner authority of their leaders by use of that term, in an effort to inculcate the errant Pentecostal form of the Second Work doctrine upon Pentecostalism.”
Varnel Watson
Dan Irving Ify Divine Nsoha http://www.pentecostaltheology.com/definite-evidence-pat-robertson-takes-a-stance-with-kingdom-now-theology/