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J.D. King: The World is Getting Worse
Practical application of Pentecostal theology in politics, economy and social issues
The Significance Of A.H. Argue For Pentecostal Historiography
120 The Significance of A.H. Argue for Pentecostal Historiography Thomas Wm. Miller* I. The Early Years Andrew Harvey Argue has been called “the greatest…
Anonymous
J.D. King said it – rather wrote it William DeArteaga Philip Williams did you too get duped into this one ? Peter Vandever Link Hudson Brett Dobbs Junior Beasley
Anonymous
well Nelson Banuchi Neil Steven Lawrence Michael Chauncey our friend Philip Williams echoed that the world is getting better like the Muslim world and other Worlds he knows way like from in the Days of NOAH !
Anonymous
Troy Day the Kingdom has been growing and making the world better. But the US and the West are rejecting the Kingdom and turning into a disaster!
Anonymous
Philip Williams and who has accepted the Kingdom? Russia and China? Neil Steven Lawrence Terry Wiles are both in missions and know better
Anonymous
Troy Day many in Russia and China as never before. Did you know that there are Pentecostals in Russia? I am leaving Saturday to meet Pentecostals in Hong Kong.
Anonymous
Philip Williams tell us ALL ABOUT them Pentecostals in Hong Kong
Are they the ones who made the fake movie about Noahs boat?
or you just going to another cruise holiday excursion š
Anonymous
Philip Williams Troy Day The USA has churches on every corner yet sin rules the country. There are a few churches that have become masters at leading people in a sinners prayer yet most know nothing about making disciple. Evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived while the church at large is lukewarm and not ready for Jesus to come. Better? Only when the King of Kings rules and reigns!
Anonymous
Terry Wiles Neither America nor any other country is getting better
Anonymous
Troy Day talk to COG Missionary Hong Yang he knows more than anyone I know about Chi_a. He just got followed, incarcerated, interrogated, and deported from Chi_a during a recent ministry trip.
Anonymous
Neil Steven Lawrence not the first time incarcerated I believe
Anonymous
Troy Day nope heās been there done that and was banned for 10 years from ļæ¼going back to his homeland. ļæ¼
Anonymous
Troy Day we went to (PTS) seminary together. Some call him Chinese Fireball! ļæ¼
Anonymous
I had heard about arrested back in the day – father died or something
Anonymous
Troy Day I just got back from Hong Kong. God willing, NAMIās new documentary may be about me.
Anonymous
Peter Vandever Junior Beasley Ricky Grimsley NEVER BEFORE
There has been so many abortions in the world
Never before there has been so much hunger
Never before there has been so much false theology Kyle Williams Terry Wiles Jerome Herrick Weymouth
Anonymous
Troy Day never before? The Roman Empire aborted alot of children and there is no telling how many the PRC has slain to maintain their communist ideal. And false theology? Literally there was a point in time where the vast majority of the “Christian” community professed some form of error on the Trinity
Anonymous
Kyle Williams The Roman Empire had less people in its whole population THAN the babies aborted in America alone You talk nonsense
Although abortion was commonly accepted in Rome, around 211 AD emperors Septimius Severus and Caracalla banned abortion as infringing on parental rights; temporary exile was the punishment.
You and Philip Williams really NEED to take my HisTheol101
Anonymous
Troy Day just saying. This “world’s gone to hell” bit is nonsense.. in Neros empire you could be jailed and worse for merely participating in Christian worship. And that was in a vast majority of the known world.
“The kingdoms of this earth are become the kingdoms of our God and His Christ.”
That’s now
Anonymous
Kyle Williams In ancient Rome, for example, abortion was only an issue for elite women, who were thought to be covering up adulterous relationships. In the Renaissance, abortion was linked to witchcraft.
Anonymous
Yes, there are some being saved. There are also many that are departing from the faith. The church isn’t going to make a better world. It has the command to go and make disciples. Many churches have become experts in leading people in a sinners prayer yet know nothing of making disciples. Seems to me the scripture itself doesn’t support a world getting better until Jesus comes back.
Anonymous
Terry Wiles more departed than saved Philip Williams
Anonymous
Troy Day a saved person has a heart sprinkled by the blood of Jesus.
Anonymous
Troy Day true
Anonymous
Junior Beasley dont know who duped Philip Williams into this
Anonymous
Troy Day duped only if the Word duped me.
Don’t tell me we got some kelly Varner ppl and their last day stuff in here.
Anonymous
Junior Beasley well J.D. King failed to respond here once again
Anonymous
Junior Beasley now then Peter Vandever may be right again about all this
Anonymous
Troy, it is pointless for me to join in on a discussion with people who disagree with me theologically and will not read any portion of my book. I have no desire to retype all my arguments on these threads only to be criticized and drowned out by people who are not open to the possibility that I might be right. It is an exercise in futility.
Anonymous
J.D. King why did you cheap shot spam ad the post with your blog then ?
Anonymous
Junior Beasley well J.D. King failed to respond here once again #ohWell
Anonymous
Troy, you are the one that posted this subject first of all. I included the now removed blog post link because it had the core argument of the book in one writing that a person could read for free. Why retype something that has been already written. If people are going to criticize and thumb their nose at my book, I thought they should be able to read some of the underlying points. There was no spam; it was the basis for the book.
Anonymous
Troy, how am I failing to respond. Iām on here. Have you read my book?
Anonymous
J.D. King I did – what is your question about your book I read ?
<<>>
now TO ME this sounds like some theological Nazi anti-statement !
Let’s just be real and discuss theology instead of categorizing ppl
BTW where did you complete your theological education?
I do not believe I have asked this before
Anonymous
Troy, I completed most of my degree from Central Bible College in Springfield, Missouri. I completed my undergraduate and then received a masters degree through the World Revival School of Ministry, an accredited program. I did not word my previous comment the way that I should have. I was merely pointing out the fact that writing out and reposting my previous writings to people who will not read my bookāand who are not open to a genuine discussionāis not a good use of time.
Anonymous
J.D. King Central Bible College in Springfield now EVANGEL was great – I guest lectured there on many occasions in the 80s or may be earlier
Anonymous
Troy Day I thought after the nado it was moved to Texas guess I been telling ppl wring all this time.
Anonymous
Junior Beasley Live holy and righteous, and I will let you go through the Great Tribulation (Things Jesus NEVER said)
Anonymous
Troy Day things Jesus said for 200 Alex.š¤£
Anonymous
Junior Beasley yeah but would Link Hudson pick this one with Duane L Burgess Yeah I dont think so on this one Neil Steven Lawrence
Anonymous
Troy Day How how many years have I been waiting for you to back up your assertion then something about 2 Thessalonians chapter 1 supports the idea of a pre-tribulation rapture
Anonymous
Link Hudson posted literally million times – not just 2 thes 1
but 1Thes 4 Rev 4 1Cor15 all the way from the Greek which you will learn to understand right when your children get hungry after the rapture. You cant farm, you will be forced with a mark to buy food – you simply cannot survive. Your proposed theology which is not really theological at all OR Biblical supposes for Neil Steven Lawrence that you will die as a martyr thus claiming you secure your own salvation with your own works? WHEN did you claim that? Every time you suppose a post-Trib hop is in the BIBLE by suggesting you can make it through the Trib somehow – there will be a major reality check for x-tians like you about 1sec after the rapture takes place for Neil Steven Lawrence Duane L Burgess and Oscar Valdez You shall return to this group to revisit what youVE missed the first time and correct your wrong theology BUT fb will require you a 666 already #sOlong just a dozen here MORE on the page https://www.pentecostaltheology.com/?s=+2+thes+1
Anonymous
Troy Day your teasoning is clearly nonsensical–post trib means earning salvation.
My back yard was nearly a food jungle a few weeks back. My wife is a much bigger gardener than I am but I have learned a bit too. We have rain barrels. Don’t make assumptions about people we do not know.
I have been challenging you for years to present your case from 2 Thessalonians chapter 1 that the Greek proves pre-trib and I haven’t seen any post on it. Here you are posting a link to a link to someone else’s article on chapter 2 not chapter 1 right?
Very rarely are your posts even that coherent and none of them seem to be ‘doing theology.’ I think I’ve seen one well-reasoned well-written post from you and all the years you’ve been on here. You usually present strings of poorly explained ideas with lots of tags of other posters. You should do an experiment and show some theologians a few typical examples of my writing samples pisted gere and a few typical examples of your own writing samples posted here from this forum and ask who ‘does theology’ better.
The quality of your own posts in your own Forum here makes it kind of ironic and questionable when you talk about being a theologian Mach others for not being theologians or talk about doing theology.
Just randomly sample a few of your own posts and ask yourself if you were grading that as a paper written by a high school student in a Bible class would you even give them a D.
Anonymous
yes Link Hudson AS Neil Steven Lawrence Duane L Burgess indicated already post trib means earning salvation. There is NO other way of you explaining your terminal desire for self-sacrifice. If you think gardening will help you from the a-christ you are with Philip Williams Gary Micheal Epping
What exactly are you going to garden when it starts raining fire and water run into blood. You need to read your BIBLE just a notch more before wanna-be theologian as John Mushenhouse once rightly asserted
Anonymous
hey Link Hudson just for fun CAUSE I saw you running away from the theological discussions I posted on pre-trib BUT just for fun WHERE do you buy seeds that can regenerate a 2nd year š you gardener you
Anonymous
Troy Day if you can be saved from a volcano by running away from it that’s not the same kind of salvation we’re talking about we talk about salvation from sin or God’s wrath.
Anonymous
Troy Day our seeds grow. I think you know less about gardening than I do. If you have read that Monsanto has tried to promote 1 generation seeds that doesn’t mean all seeds are like that.
Anonymous
Troy Day enduring in faith is required in this age also, and is a theme in Paul’s letters written to saints in hus own time. E.g. in Corinth and Colossae.
Anonymous
Link Hudson nothing theological here – just your usual emotional drama
Anonymous
Troy Day Look at my posts, and look at your posts.
Anonymous
Link Hudson why should I do that again? Was once not enough? Are you seeing yourself as some wise sage we all should re-read daily? My post was about J.D. King who stated
pointless for me to join in on a discussion with people who disagree with me theologically
I on the other side see no point to discuss with Neil Steven Lawrence who agrees with me š Love getting J.D. King involved in his own explanation of NAR though š quite lack of theology there IMHO
Anonymous
J.D. King yes I did expecting actual human involvement NOT just copy paste of some other decade old discourse we have all read. The SPIRIT moves in the new you see – and we need to keep on talking and seeing it
Anonymous
BTW J.D. King since I read your book with Peter Vandever I can clearly state it is NOT theological. After all the world around us is getting worse than ever. Jesus himself stated as in the days of NOAH whom Philip Williams met personally from a distance This is pretty simple theology Jesus was teaching His church there !!!
Anonymous
Troy Day ship of Zion is doing mighty fine!
Anonymous
Troy Day Philip Williams isn’t quite that old.
Anonymous
Link Hudson he sold Noah his circular saws and power tools
Anonymous
come on Chad Lingerfelt buddy – show us what you got {theologically}
Anonymous
Troy Day Iām not sure what you mean Iām new here Iām not sure why I was invited here Iām a KJB Bible believer
Anonymous
Post-trib get preppin! ļæ¼! !
It should last about three weeks until the antichrist drones spot youā¦ ļ漚«Ø
The Mark of the Beast is a religious test. On one hand it is a test of your resolve to not bow the knee but serve Jesus only. On the other hand, it is a temptation to take it and receive free things from the government.
People are already being trained to think this way. The entitlement mind has consumed Europe, and is busy consuming the United States. ļæ¼
One small problemā¦ When you worship the Beast to get the mark, you will receive a demon. At that time demons will have been released from the āchains of darknessā that have held them because of their unwillingness to submit to Godās boundaries. During the Great Tribulation they will have a type of rampage the world has never seen.
No Post-TRIB positive view of the world improving will save you from that rampage! ļæ¼ ļæ¼
If the antichrist drones donāt spot you trying to hide under a rock in the wilderness then the demons will find youā¦ ļ漚«Ø
Anonymous
Link Hudson Better put aside some extra seeds for Troy, Neil, and The Pretrib boys to use after they stop whining and get over the shock of still being here after the Tribulation gets underway.
Anonymous
Gary Micheal Epping you are in the wrong OP once again
BUT do you now believe you will farm the land and NOT wait in a cave?
Do you also agree with Link church will NOT go to heaven
And with J.D. King that things are getting better in the world?
Is this what FL revivals preached for Peter Vandever has told us the opposite ?
perhaps you can tag Neil Steven Lawrence Michael Chauncey Duane L Burgess so they can get their seeds on time – oh, right, Link aint got none cause Philip Williams never brought him them eternal seeds from Noahs boat
Anonymous
Troy Day troy, I asked a question for discussion of where scripture says the church goes to heaven. I pointed out how little information scripture gives on that Iidea, xompared to the hope of the resurrection, and pointed how the emphasis was reverse with many modern Christians.
I thought theologians could make fine distinctions.
Anonymous
Gary Micheal Epping
No problem I know where the seeds are, there at your place and Iāll come get someā¦ ļ漚³šš¤«
Anonymous
Neil Steven Lawrence Yep. In the mountains and wilderness in Montana. You would surely be welcome. Troy, however, looks like he is out of shape, and needs to get out of the flat lands and get some mountain and wilderness training first.
Anonymous
Link Hudson ok – and? Once again you proved nothing with the BIBLE and Philip Williams of course agreed with you in his purely popish ways
Anonymous
Gary Micheal Epping so now you believe you gonna wanna be a farmer ? before you was gonna hide in a cave waiting for a manna rain w/ Link BTW happened to be in the BEST shape of my life as of today #booYa And I actually know a little something about farming as well for which reason I can guarantee you neither you will have ways to farm with the weather patterns of the Trib. nor the a-christ will let you do it w/NO vax
Anonymous
Gary Micheal Epping
Troy could really get in shape with the antichrist diet!
I showed him some floor exercises that he can do to get ready for the rapture. No worries that he has to get in shape for the tribulation unless he loses his sanctification between now and then. ļæ¼
If youāre in Montana, then it might take a few more weeks for the antichrist minions to reach you, probably just in time for your seeds to ripen. ļæ¼
Anonymous
Troy Day I just pointed out how,again, you misrepresented what I had written.
Anonymous
Link Hudson I had not misrepresented anything of yours cause I dont really follow what you write or think. This OP is about J.D. King book which I love to discuss – also the other 1 where he follows non-Pentecostal Keener to prove to us Pentecostals that antiChrist will is OK
Anonymous
Neil Steven Lawrence those floor exercises Link Hudson started to mess my morning prayer and fasting so I discarded them as pure yoga. And actually if yall look at my pictures I am skinnier than all 3 of yall which is good for my age Only skinnier than myself is my old buddy Alan Smith HOWEVER I still got the heavy hitter theology few can survive š
Anonymous
Troy Day You don’t post your picture on your page do you?
Not sure what floor exercises you do. I don’t have anything to do with them, and certainly not with yoga.
Btw, do you think the Beast will make people get a vaccine?
Anonymous
Neil Steven Lawrence Montana highlands is God’s country. AntiX is not welcome here. Except maybe by the Grizzles and timber wolves, who would like to meat him and put a mark on his forehead.
Anonymous
Link Hudson plenty of pictures on my page Especially when we did cowboy church and others. But you are right as indicated to J.D. King I dont like self promo too much – this group is about theology after all. The floor ex. is a joke with Neil Steven Lawrence from back in the day. Helped him transition from mission to education in some sense BTW Link you never answered under the surviving trib OP – tell us there your plan
Anonymous
Link Hudson what does the beast have to do with a vaccine?
Anonymous
Alan Smith I was responding to Troy’s post.
Anonymous
Link Hudson this OP and book is by J.D. King #sorry
Anonymous
my brother J.D. King once again you passed with pride a discussion on your own work with posting a spam ad š It would have been great to discuss the week (and strong) points of your book but I do get a feel you shy away from this somewhat
Anonymous
Troy, I was preaching and ministering all day, yesterday, and I couldnāt take the time to post.
Anonymous
J.D. King we did too our usual 3 services after coming back from ministering in Honduras last week – if this has ever stopped us before š
Anonymous
Troy, as you mentioned before, the book, Why Youāve Been Duped into Believing that the World is Getting Worse is not primarily theological. I took objective data sets about economics, health, infant mortality, wars, and most importantly, the growth of Christianity and showed that all of this is moving in an objectively upward trajectory. The important thing to point out is that the data is from all the world, not just the United States. While the U.S. may be declining in some areas, most of the rest of the world is nor. Based on most metrics, the world is getting healthier, richer, more just, and more Christian. I finish the book arguing that it is Christianity that is causing this.
Anonymous
Troy, here what I posted this morning when I had time to post.
Anonymous
Troy, let me make a biblical case for why the world is getting better. In Daniel 2, the prophet envisioned a statue constructed with four types of metal. It had a head of gold, arms and chest of silver, belly and thighs of bronze, and legs of iron (Daniel 2:31-33).
As God disclosed the meaning to Daniel, the prophet discovered that the metals represented four world powers (Daniel 2:39-40):
Gold- Babylon (625BC – 550BC)
Silver – Medes and Persians (550BC – 330BC)
Bronze – Greece (330BC – 30BC)
Iron – Rome (30BC – 400AD)
As the vision continued, Daniel witnessed a boulder emerging from heaven. It pummeled the statue and smashed it to bits.
“A rock was cut from a mountain but not by human hands. It struck the feet of iron and clay, smashing them to bits. The whole statue was crushed into small pieces of iron, clay, bronze, silver, and gold. Then the wind blew them away without a trace, like chaff on a threshing floor” (Daniel 2:34-35).
Everyone agrees that the boulder that struck the statue represents Jesus. However, futurists want to tease out Daniel’s timeline. Rather than acknowledging the activation of the Kingdom of God in the first century, they want to push it off to the future.
Daniel makes it abundantly clear, that “in the days of those kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom” (Daniel 2:44). In other words, the rule of God will begin to break into history during the time of ancient Rome and expand from there.
Obviously, the unwillingness to recognize the present reign of Jesus requires a radical reconfiguration. Not only must the “prophetic time-clock” be stopped, but other elements must also be inserted into the story. The reader is forced to go beyond the plain meaning of the text and construct something fantastical.
End-time prognosticators insist that Daniel isn’t referencing a first-century government. They say that he’s talking about a “revised Roman Empire” that will emerge two thousand years later.
While futurists might reluctantly acknowledge that the statue’s “legs and feet” depict ancient Rome, they believe the “toes” foreshadow a contemporary or still futuristic European government.
The absurdity of this interpretation is illustrated in a chart by Dispensationalist Clarence Larkin (1850-1924). The toes, in his pictorial depiction, end up being longer than the statue itself.
Just as Daniel’s vision is distorted, the simplicity and truth of the Kingdom is also maligned. Tragically, many sincere Christians are stretching scripture beyond any reasonable semblance.
The Bible is clear that Jesus inaugurated the Kingdom of God in the first century and that His rule continues to expand across the globe.
Contrary to popular assumptions, the dominion of Christ isn’t depicted as sudden or cataclysmic. Instead, it is progressive. Jesus is incrementally putting down darkness and filling the earth with His glory (1 Corinthians 15:24-28).
The prophet Daniel makes this plain when he discloses that the boulder that smashed the statue would grow into a mighty mountain. He said, “The rock that knocked the statue down became a great mountain that covered the whole earth” (Daniel 2:35).
Daniel declares that, during the time of the ancient Roman Empire, “the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that will never be destroyed or conquered. It will crush all these kingdoms into nothingness, and it will stand forever” (Daniel 2:44).
Jesus’ Kingdom has been inaugurated and will continue to grow. Darkness cannot prevail. Rather than things becoming worse, they will improve. There is an ever-increasing glory that is overtaking the nations.
Anonymous
Troy, here is also what I posted here.
Anonymous
J.D. King I read it earlier
For starters you used Larkin’s chart on Dan/Rev and as a typical dispensationalist – as a matter of fact as the FATHER of modern day dispensationalism Larkin believed that according to the BIBLE the modern world is declining and going down the drain. This is DTS classical interpretation as well Oscar Valdez Larkin spoke of Daniel’s vision from gold to dust as definite decline of this world. He only saw a Biblical answer in the physically coming in the future Kingdom of God which is neither of this world NOR NAR’s kingdom now but God’s future Kingdom established on a new earth and announced by the angel in Revelation with NOW is the Kingdom… This is just for a Biblical starter on HOW Larkin’s chart counters any world getting better 7mntns NAR propaganda The pseudo reformed eschatology Kyle Williams converted to is wrong AND Duane L Burgess John Mushenhouse have shown us WHY …
Anonymous
Kyle Williams do you care to respond to the Internal Evidence from within the document itself. In addition to the external evidence from the church fathers, the book of Revelation has many internal indications that support the late date.[73]
ARGUMENT #1: The late date explains why John, Paul, and Timothy never mention one another together in Ephesus.
If the early date is true, then John would have been leading in Ephesus at the same time as Paul and Timothy. Why would Paul leave Timothy in charge of the Ephesian church if the apostle John was there? Moreover, at the end of 2 Timothy, Paul mentions 17 coworkers by name, but he never mentions John. We are not merely making an argument from silence. This is a conspicuous silence. Why wouldnāt Paul mention such a spiritual titan like John? Likewise, why wouldnāt Jesus mention Paul or Timothy when writing to the church of Ephesus? (Rev. 2:1-7) Witherington writes, āThe lack of apostolic presence and, by contrast, the presence of powerful prophets (both John and those he calls false prophets) seem to reflect a time after the apostles had died off late in the first century A.D. (cf. the Didache).ā[74]
ARGUMENT #2: The late date explains why Paul and Jesus give conflicting reports about false teachers in Ephesus.
Paulās letters to Ephesus and Jesusā letter to Ephesus give conflicting reports regarding false teachers. On the one hand, Paul writes about men who āteach strange doctrinesā (1 Tim. 1:3) and the ādoctrines of demonsā (1 Tim. 4:1). Paul even mentions several false teachers by name: Hymenaeus, Alexander, and Philetus (1 Tim. 1:20; 2 Tim. 2:17). Yet, Jesusā letter to Ephesus tells a different story. Instead of being riddled with false teachers, Jesus says, āYou cannot tolerate evil men, and you put to the test those who call themselves apostles, and they are not, and you found them to be falseā¦ You hate the deeds of the Nicolaitans, which I also hateā (Rev. 2:2, 6). This is quite unlike the church of Pergamum who āhave some whoā¦ hold the teaching of the Nicolaitansā (Rev. 2:15).
ARGUMENT #3: The late date explains how the church in Smyrna had time to grow before receiving a letter from Jesus.
Polycarp wrote a letter to the Philippians in AD 110. In it, he states that the Smyrnaeans werenāt believers when Paul wrote his letter to the Philippians in AD 60-61.
[You Philippians] are praised in the beginning of his Epistle. For concerning you he boasts in all the Churches who then alone had known the Lord, for we had not yet known him.[75]
Polycarp was the bishop of Smyrna. So, his use of the plural āweā refers to āthe church at Smyrna,ā which would āindicate that that church was not in existence at the time in question.ā[76] Put simply, Polycarp is claiming that āwhen Paul wrote Philippians no Smyrneans had yet been evangelized.ā[77]
Craig Blomberg[78] and Gordon Fee[79] date Philippians to AD 61. Therefore, Polycarp maintains that the church in Smyrna didnāt exist before this time. This, of course, carried difficulties for the early date advocate. It requires a church entering Smyrna and springing up all within a 4-5 year span. Acts 19:10 says that āAll who lived in Asia heard the word of the Lord,ā but this is hyperbolic language. This doesnāt mean that a church specifically existed in the city of Smyrna. Moreover, Paul never mentions a church existing in Smyrna in any of his letters.
ARGUMENT #4: The late date explains how the church in Laodicea had time to plummet spiritually by AD 65.
D.A. Carson, Douglas Moo,[80] and P.T. OāBrien[81] date Colossians to AD 60-61. Paul mentions a thriving church in Laodicea at this time (Col. 2:2; 4:13, 16). However, if Revelation was written in AD 65, then this church must have plummeted spiritually in just a few years. In fact, they had become so bad, that Christ threatened to vomit them out of his mouth! (Rev. 3:16) Of course, spiritual decline can occur quickly (Gal. 1:6), but which is more likely? A quick decline or a slower decline?
ARGUMENT #5: The late date explains Jesusā words to the church in Laodicea in light of the great earthquake of AD 60.
The entire region around Laodicea suffered a massive earthquake in AD 60. In fact, the region suffered until at least AD 80,[82] and the āarchaeological evidence at Laodicea points to a thirty-year rebuilding process.ā[83]
And yet, Jesus told the Laodiceans that they are āwealthyā and āhave need of nothingā (Rev. 3:16). If the early date is true, it would be quite cruel to tell a destroyed city that they are āwealthyā and āhave need of nothing.ā However, if the late date is true, this would make perfect sense. Tacitus mentions that the Laodiceans refused all aid from the Roman Empire after the earthquake.[84] They rebuilt their city all on their own, because they were āwealthyā and had āneed of nothing.ā Hemer writes, āThere is good reason for seeing Rev. 3.17 against the background of the boasted afluence [sic] of Laodicea, notoriously exemplified in her refusal of Roman aid and her carrying through a great programme of reconstruction in a spirit of proud independence and ostentatious individual benefaction.ā[85]