theology September 22, 2019

It is wrong to call any man “father” according to Scripture

It is wrong to call any man “father” according to Scripture

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Dan Irving Matthew 23:9 is the most clear of the commandments.
Randal W Deese Doesn’t that text also say not to call any man teacher?
Dan Irving The KJV renders it “master.”
Dan Irving “teacher” is clearly a different Greek word, “didaskalos”
Randal W Deese Dan Irving The Greek there is the word for guide, which is also considered in the Greek culture a teacher
Dan Irving Perhaps, but now your stretching.
Dan Irving And what is stretched, is easily twisted.
Randal W Deese Dan Irving But the word rabbi definitely includes the idea of a teacher
Dan Irving TRUE
Randal W Deese Nonetheless, let us break it down… It says call no man father on earth. So, this means you cannot call your biological dad a father?
Dan Irving The scripture requires “rightly dividing.”  Which means there are two extremes to be avoided.  Your first point took the path of over-broadness in which you gave yourself too much liberality in the definition.  Your last point took the myopic path of tightening the definition to absurdity.  Key Idea:  “RIGHTLY divide.
Dan Irving (sorry about the need to edit)
Randal W Deese Dan Irving If it’s so absurd… Prove it… I think your whole argument is absurd… But I have not actually presented mine yet
Dan Irving Should we call any woman “mother?”  Even our own?”
Dan Irving Yet Jesus called mother, “Mother.”
Dan Irving Obvsiously it is proper to describe a biological relationship.  Please, sir.
Randal W Deese Dan Irving I do agree with your statement about rightly dividing the Scriptures…
Dan Irving And to my point?
Randal W Deese Dan Irving It is not obvious from the text…
Dan Irving It is as plain as grass is green.  Except to certain sects that want to call men “Father” in a spiritual context.  But, they can do as they will.
Randal W Deese Dan Irving My point is that the context does not eliminate a biological father… But just like how you are taking this verse out of context concerning calling other men father, it amounts to the same argument
Dan Irving How did I abuse context?
Randal W Deese Dan Irving By the way, you should know that both Protestants and Catholics in Orthodox have all been known to call their Shepherd’s father… I have many quotes to prove it
Randal W Deese Dan Irving You abuse the context by assuming that it refers to it being wrong to call any man a spiritual leader father… Apostle Paul disagrees with you
Dan Irving Many Catholics & Protestants smoke heroin.  So?
Randal W Deese Dan Irving You are the one that mentioned certain sects
Randal W Deese Dan Irving Hey, is it wrong to call Abraham Fr.?
Dan Irving You haven’t indicated how I abused context.
Randal W Deese Dan Irving The context would take a long time to go into, but the overall idea is that he is speaking hyperbolic. How do we know this? If Jesus was not speaking hyperbolic, then apostle Paul sinned by calling Abraham a father
Dan Irving So then, What is the meaning of Matt. 23:9?
Dan Irving You don’t know, because you have already rejected it.
Randal W Deese Dan Irving …probably alludes to the Ab, or father of the Sanhedrin, who was the next after the nasi,
Dan Irving probably
Randal W Deese It was Jewish regular term…lol
Dan Irving You’re not rightly dividing, and so you stumble over simplicity itself.
Randal W Deese Dan Irving ​So, in Matthew 23:9 Jesus states quite clearly “Call no man Father on earth”. Again, if this passage is understood literalistically we cannot use the term Father as an honorary title, right? The prohibition would include using the term to honor the following, for example…George Washington, the Father of our country.Herodotus, the Father of history.Adam Smith, the Father of economics​All such honorary titles would be sin! Well, we now know that the text does not prohibit calling our biological father, father. What about using the term Father as an honorary title?
Randal W Deese ​ When Deacon Stephen was charged as a blasphemer of God, he had no problem beginning his defense by the inclusion of the honorary title of “fathers” when he referred to the Jewish leaders of the Sanhedrin. This is recorded in Acts 7:2.And Stephen said: “Brothers and fathers, hear me. The God of glory appeared to our father Abraham when he was in Mesopotamia, before he lived in Haran,
Dan Irving I’m not aware of any scripture than authorizes “Father” as an honorary title.  Such would conflict with the Lord’s commandment.
Randal W Deese Was Stephen sinning?
Dan Irving I think your’re confusing two principles.
Randal W Deese Dan Irving am I?
Dan Irving You indicated you were about to “present” an argument, I presume, for taking up the practice of calling men “Father.”  Why would you want to introduce this custom to Pentecostals?
Randal W Deese Dan Irving Scripture reveals that Abraham is the biological father of all Jews, hence, the biological title Father Abraham. Using the title Father biologically has already been discussed. Yet, Apostle Paul calls Abraham the Father of all who belong to Christ, thus, making the term Father, honorary. He is the Founder of our Faith, that is, he is the Father of our faith. Let’s observe that in…Galatians 3:26-29: For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. And if ye be Christ’s, then are ye Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.Romans 4:16: Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all​Thereby, we can firmly attest to the fact that honorary titles, in and of themselves, are not considered wrong. Unless, of course, we accuse Stephen and Apostle Paul of violating the very words of Christ!
Dan Irving Was Abraham, “on earth?”  No.  But Abraham is a symbolic figure for “justification by faith.”  You’re not rightly dividing.
Randal W Deese Dan Irving called Father
Randal W Deese Is he a man?
Randal W Deese The Honorary Title of Father1. It was given as a title to Originators.​Although the honorary title usually applied to the head of household, it also was applied to originators. The author of Genesis recognized the originator of tent-dwelling and cattle ranching as a father.Genesis 4:20: And Adah bare Jabal: he was the father of such as dwell in tents, and of such as have cattle.​He also called those who were the originators of musical instruments a father as well.Genesis 4:21: And his brother’s name was Jubal: he was the father of all such as handle the harp and organ.
Dan Irving Abraham became the symbol and forerunner for all of a certain class.  Those justified by faith.  This is the sense in which both Paul & Christ use the term. They were not giving license to earthly titles.
Randal W Deese Dan Irving he is a man called Father
Randal W Deese 2. It was given as a title to secular authorities.​Although the honorary title applied to originators, it also applied to various authority figures as well. The servant of the Captain of the host of the King of Syria is referred to as father, for example.2 Kings 5:13: And his servants came near, and spake unto him, and said, My father, if the prophet had bid thee do some great thing, wouldest thou not have done it? how much rather then, when he saith to thee, Wash, and be clean?​David referred to King Saul as a father.1 Samuel 24:11:  Moreover, my father, see, yea, see the skirt of thy robe in my hand: for in that I cut off the skirt of thy robe, and killed thee not, know thou and see that there is neither evil nor transgression in mine hand, and I have not sinned against thee; yet thou huntest my soul to take it.
Randal W Deese 2. It was given as a title to secular authorities.​Although the honorary title applied to originators, it also applied to various authority figures as well. The servant of the Captain of the host of the King of Syria is referred to as father, for example.2 Kings 5:13: And his servants came near, and spake unto him, and said, My father, if the prophet had bid thee do some great thing, wouldest thou not have done it? how much rather then, when he saith to thee, Wash, and be clean?​David referred to King Saul as a father.1 Samuel 24:11:  Moreover, my father, see, yea, see the skirt of thy robe in my hand: for in that I cut off the skirt of thy robe, and killed thee not, know thou and see that there is neither evil nor transgression in mine hand, and I have not sinned against thee; yet thou huntest my soul to take it.
Dan Irving Your points mean nothing, as they do not touch upon the Lord’s meaning.
Randal W Deese Dan Irving  3. It was given as a title to counselors, advisors, and helpers.​Although the honorary title applied to originators and authority figures, it also applied to certain counselors or advisors. Joseph, an advisor to the king, tells his brothers of a special fatherly relationship God had given him over the king of Egypt – very profound indeed. He refers to himself as a father to Pharaoh.Genesis 45:8: So it was not you who sent me here, but God; and he has made me a father to Pharaoh, and lord of all his house and ruler over all the land of Egypt.​He was considered a counselor; a guide; one who can be trusted in time of danger and difficulty. God Himself declared that Eliakim, the steward of the House of David, would serve as a “Father”, that is, a counselor in his future position.Isaiah 22:20-21: And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will call my servant Eliakim the son of Hilkiah: And I will clothe him with thy robe, and strengthen him with thy girdle, and I will commit thy government into his hand: and he shall be a father to the inhabitants of Jerusalem, and to the house of Judah.​Job indicates he considered himself a father to the poor.Job 29:16: I was a father to the poor, and I searched out the cause of him whom I did not know.​Thereby, we can firmly attest to the fact that “Calling no man Father on earth” is not a prohibition against using honorary titles, unless, of course, we accuse Stephen and Apostle Paul of violating the very words of Christ!
Dan Irving . . which you, yourself have acknowledged you are ignorant concerning.
Dan Irving Paul never authorized the title of father be applied to himself.  He did express a relationship; but this is a point you entirely miss.
Randal W Deese Dan Irving not true
Dan Irving TRUE
Randal W Deese Dan Irving Transferrable Concepts​Often, Scripture reveals truths that transfer from the natural world to the spiritual world. Scripture always shows us the natural before the spiritual. 1 Corinthians 15:46 teaches us this transferrable concept when it saysIt is not the spiritual that is first but the natural, and then the spiritual.​We just looked at how the natural man calls the head of household, father, and how the natural man uses titles to honor men in general, and how the natural man uses the title “father” to honor certain men – all without any Scriptural prohibition. Yet, many will harshly condemn those who recognize any spiritual titles men may possess, to include using the title, father. Scripture simply does not teach any such prohibition. We have a few examples of spiritual titles being embraced without condemnation.
Randal W Deese ​1. The secular-spiritual title of Reuel.​Getting back to Reuel, it is very clear that Moses referred to his father-in-law as Jethro, “His Excellence”. As we discussed before, Exodus 3:1, names Reu-el as the Prince and Priest of Midian. Since Reuel was a recognized as priest of Midian with a specific title, we understand that this was more than an honorary title – it was a spiritual title. So, Moses referred to his father-in-law not only using an honorary title, but a spiritual title.
Dan Irving If I choose not to call another man “Father” (in a spiritual context) because of Matthew 23:9, why should this be construed as “harshly condemning” anyone?
Randal W Deese Dan Irving Scripture cannot contradict Scripture Priests, Prophets, Counselors and Kings (naaman and saul) ) or an honorary title given to prophets and priests (Judg. 17:10Jdg 17:10  And Micah said unto him, Dwell with me, and be unto me a father and a priest, and I will give thee ten shekels of silver by the year, and a suit of apparel, and thy victuals. So the Levite went in18:19; Judges 18:18-19 KJV  And these went into Micah’s house, and fetched the carved image, the ephod, and the teraphim, and the molten image. Then said the priest unto them, What do ye?  19  And they said unto him, Hold thy peace, lay thine hand upon thy mouth, and go with us, and be to us a father and a priest: is it better for thee to be a priest unto the house of one man, or that thou be a priest unto a tribe and a family in Israel?Elisha cried out to his spiritual Father Elijah when Elijah was leaving him.2 Kings 2:12: And Elisha saw it, and he cried, My father, my father, the chariot of Israel, and the horsemen thereof. And he saw him no more: and he took hold of his own clothes, and rent them in two pieces.Jehoram, King of Israel considered Elisha his spiritual Father while consulting him for battle advice.2 Kings 6:21:  And the king of Israel said unto Elisha, when he saw them, My father, shall I smite them? shall I smite them?Joash, another king of Israel acknowledged Elisha as his spiritual Father at Elisha’s death.2 Kings 13:14 KJV  Now Elisha was fallen sick of his sickness whereof he died. And Joash the king of Israel came down unto him, and wept over his face, and said, O my father, my father, the chariot of Israel, and the horsemen thereof….and unless we think this idea was just under the Old Covenant…
Randal W Deese Apostle Paul regularly referred to Timothy as his spiritual child, which implies Paul’s spiritual Fatherhood.1 Corinthians 4:17: Therefore I sent to you Timothy, my beloved and faithful child in the Lord, to remind you of my ways in Christ1 Timothy 1:2: To Timothy, my true child in the faith: grace, mercy, and peace from God the Father and Christ Jesus our Lord1 Timothy 1:18: This charge I commit to you, Timothy, my son, in accordance with the prophetic utterances which pointed to you, that inspired by them you may wage the good warfare2 Timothy 1:2:  To Timothy, my beloved child: Grace, mercy, and peace from God the Father and Christ Jesus our Lord2 Timothy 2:1: You then, my son, be strong in the grace that is in Christ Jesus”Philippians 2:22: But Timothy’s worth you know, how as a son with a father he has served with me in the gospelApostle Paul referred to Titus as his spiritual child as well.Titus 1:4: To Titus, my true child in a common faith: grace and peace from God the Father and Christ Jesus our SaviorPaul considered Onesimus his spiritual child as well.Philemon 10: I appeal to you for my child, Onesimus, whose father I have become in my imprisonment
Randal W Deese Each of these men just mentioned were in a spiritual father-son relationship with Apostle Paul. He considered himself their spiritual Father. Moreover, Paul considered himself the spiritual father to entire congregations.1 Corinthians 4:14-15: I do not write this to make you ashamed, but to admonish you as my beloved children. For though you have countless guides in Christ, you do not have many fathers. For I became your father in Christ Jesus through the gospel.2 Corinthians 12:14: Here for the third time I am ready to come to you. And I will not be a burden, for I seek not what is yours but you; for children ought not to lay up for their parents, but parents for their childrenGalatians 4:19: My little children, with whom I am again in travail until Christ be formed in you!1 Thessalonians 2:9-12: For you remember, brothers, our labor and toil: we worked night and day, that we might not be a burden to any of you, while we proclaimed to you the gospel of God. You are witnesses, and God also, how holy and righteous and blameless was our conduct toward you believers. For you know how, like a father with his children, we exhorted each one of you and encouraged you and charged you to walk in a manner worthy of God, who calls you into his own kingdom and glory.
Randal W Deese Peter considered himself a spiritual father as well, referring to Mark as his son:1 Peter 5:13: She who is at Babylon, who is likewise chosen, sends you greetings; and so does my son Mark.
Randal W Deese Apostle John is well known for considering himself a spiritual father to many believers.1 John 2:1: My little children, I am writing this to you so that you may not sin; but if any one does sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous3 John 4:  No greater joy can I have than this, to hear that my children follow the truth.Peter, Paul, and John understood their roles as spiritual fathers in those passages. So, with both the Old and New Testament evidence presented, it is very clear that when Jesus Christ says, “Call no man Father on earth”, he was in no way placing an prohibition upon recognizing and calling spiritual leaders, Fathers. This is absurd! The very idea that Christ forbids such a concept is based upon personal prejudices, not God’s Word. This would make the Apostles hypocrites, and create too many contradictions in the Bible.
Dan Irving Jesus said, “Call no man your father upon the earth.”  That is the rule I follow.  That is the rule Pentecostal believers have traditionally followed.  Those who reject this rule (most notably, the Catholics) have fallen into many much more grave errors, such as the Veneration of Mary, Inerrancy of the Papacy, Veneration of Images, etc. etc.  Therefore, no matter how you justify the custom, the distemper suffered by its bedfellows speaks louder.
Randal W Deese Dan Irving Abraham is called a father after Jesus warned not to say it… That totally makes your interpretation invalid
Randal W Deese When you make one verse your Doctrine when all the other verses I showed demonstrate the opposite, you haven’t used valid interpretation rules
Dan Irving You must not have read my response to that.
Randal W Deese Dan Irving I read your response but it’s an excuse
Randal W Deese By the go… If it has only been about 100 years that some protestants stop using the word father
Randal W Deese Just for the record, I am orthodox not Roman Catholic
Dan Irving Abraham is a symbol for Justification by Faith.  He is the Father (ie. forerunner) of them that believe.
Randal W Deese Dan Irving … Not too hard to answer… Is he call Fr.?
Randal W Deese Is he recognized as a spiritual father?
Dan Irving If Abraham was standing before me, I would not address him as “Father,” no.
Randal W Deese Apostle Paul considered himself a father as well
Dan Irving If Paul was standing before me, I would not address him as “Father.”
Randal W Deese Dan Irving I would call Abraham father… It was a spiritual term that was used in the Old Testament and New Testament of those of respected spiritual authority. Your Doctrine seems better American than biblical
Dan Irving Why is this so important to you?
Dan Irving To  bring men into bondage in this way?
Randal W Deese Dan Irving I believe it is aN erroneous Doctrine not to call spiritual leaders father… It is just anti Roman Catholic rhetoric
Dan Irving There are plenty of bigger reasons to reject Catholicism.
Randal W Deese Dan Irving It is actually more unscriptural to call a leader of the church pastor
Dan Irving There is no expressed prohibition on that.
Dan Irving And, it is a recognized office in Ephesians.
Randal W Deese Dan Irving So we are going to claim following the Bible but not care if a term is used
Randal W Deese Dan Irving It is not a recognized office… It is only a recognized gift
Dan Irving A pastor is a “gift?”
Randal W Deese The only office Payl mentions is that of episcopos
Dan Irving I use the term “office” figuratively for station/place/role.  Not in the mundane sense.
Dan Irving Men are called & divinely positioned in the 5-fold ministries.  That is not true of bishops.
Randal W Deese Office in the Bible of the Episcopos includes those who may have a gift of pastor
Dan Irving Again,  Men are called & divinely positioned in the 5-fold ministries. That is not true of bishops.
Randal W Deese The word for Bishop includes all those with various gifts of the five fold
Dan Irving A bishop is also a prophet?
Randal W Deese Yes
Dan Irving Do you realize this is a Pentecostal group>
Randal W Deese There is no New Testament office of prophet
Randal W Deese I’ve been a Pentecostal for longer than you’ve probably been alive
Dan Irving Ephesians 4:11
Randal W Deese Those are gifts… No where in the Scriptures in the New Testament are they called offices
Dan Irving I don’t believe you use the term “Pentecostal” in the same way as do I.
Randal W Deese Dan Irving Tell me your definition?
Randal W Deese I know what the charismatic Penecostal dictionary says the definition is… And I know what the standard dictionary says a Pentecostal is… I qualify for both
Dan Irving There are Catholic “charismatics” but when you use the term “Pentecostal” within a classical Pentecostal setting (which this forum is) it entails the acceptance of classical Pentecostal teaching on the baptism of the Holy Spirit, which includes the doctrine of Initial Evidence.
Randal W Deese Dan Irving I not only teach that, I am writing a book about that subject
Dan Irving And you follow Catholicism?
Randal W Deese Dan Irving Define Catholicism
Dan Irving Roman Catholicism?
Randal W Deese Dan Irving I am not Roman Catholic
Randal W Deese But, I am Catholic
Dan Irving Many books on pneumatology and Spirit-baptism have been written.  And, Catholics have written some particularly erroneous things regarding Spirit-baptism, Pentecost, etc.  Hopefully, your book will remain within the classical teaching that has a basis in scripture.
Randal W Deese Dan Irving If my plans come true, it will be the most in depth three volume book on the singular subject of the gift of the Holy Spirit ever written… And when I mean classical teaching… It includes everything the historical church has mentioned as well concerning the timing of the gift of the Holy Spirit
Dan Irving The historical “church,” for the past two millenia, has been in the dark. The Pentecostal Renewal occurred only 100 years ago.
Randal W Deese Dan Irving Did Jesus Christ lie?
Dan Irving Well, you don’t believe Him as to Matt. 23:9
Randal W Deese Dan Irving I absolutely teach that he thought that passage… But I know that you were taking it out of context because scripture does not contradict Scripture
Randal W Deese Do you believe that Jesus said in Matthew 5:5?
Dan Irving of course
Randal W Deese Dan Irving Does this mean we are supposed to follow all the law now
Dan Irving Because Jesus said, “Blessed are the meek?”
Mark Ramsy Matthew 23:9 And do not call anyone on earth ‘father,’  – a very definite aorist imperative no arguing with it ; Not same as teacher – we dont call no one holy teacher and it is not said we have one teacher in Heaven but it does say the reason we call NO one father is because our Father is in Heaven
Randal W Deese Scripture reveals that Abraham is the biological father of all Jews, hence, the biological title Father Abraham. Using the title Father biologically has already been discussed. Yet, Apostle Paul calls Abraham the Father of all who belong to Christ, thus, making the term Father, honorary. He is the Founder of our Faith, that is, he is the Father of our faith. Let’s observe that in…Galatians 3:26-29: For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus. And if ye be Christ’s, then are ye Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.Romans 4:16: Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all​Thereby, we can firmly attest to the fact that honorary titles, in and of themselves, are not considered wrong. Unless, of course, we accuse Stephen and Apostle Paul of violating the very words of Christ!
Mark Ramsy father abraham had many sons 🙂 we know that THE reason we dont call no one father is BECAUSE Of the priesthood of ALL believers not just the priest, not just the father but ALL believers
Randal W Deese Troy Day is he called Father
Randal W Deese The Honorary Title of Father1. It was given as a title to Originators.​Although the honorary title usually applied to the head of household, it also was applied to originators. The author of Genesis recognized the originator of tent-dwelling and cattle ranching as a father.Genesis 4:20: And Adah bare Jabal: he was the father of such as dwell in tents, and of such as have cattle.​He also called those who were the originators of musical instruments a father as well.Genesis 4:21: And his brother’s name was Jubal: he was the father of all such as handle the harp and organ.
Randal W Deese 3. It was given as a title to counselors, advisors, and helpers.​Although the honorary title applied to originators and authority figures, it also applied to certain counselors or advisors. Joseph, an advisor to the king, tells his brothers of a special fatherly relationship God had given him over the king of Egypt – very profound indeed. He refers to himself as a father to Pharaoh.Genesis 45:8: So it was not you who sent me here, but God; and he has made me a father to Pharaoh, and lord of all his house and ruler over all the land of Egypt.​He was considered a counselor; a guide; one who can be trusted in time of danger and difficulty. God Himself declared that Eliakim, the steward of the House of David, would serve as a “Father”, that is, a counselor in his future position.Isaiah 22:20-21: And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will call my servant Eliakim the son of Hilkiah: And I will clothe him with thy robe, and strengthen him with thy girdle, and I will commit thy government into his hand: and he shall be a father to the inhabitants of Jerusalem, and to the house of Judah.​Job indicates he considered himself a father to the poor.Job 29:16: I was a father to the poor, and I searched out the cause of him whom I did not know.​Thereby, we can firmly attest to the fact that “Calling no man Father on earth” is not a prohibition against using honorary titles, unless, of course, we accuse Stephen and Apostle Paul of violating the very words of Christ!
Mark Ramsy Let’s not forget again: Priesthood of ALL believers And again Priesthood of ALL believers Finally; Priesthood of ALL believers
Randal W Deese Different subject
Randal W Deese Transferrable Concepts​Often, Scripture reveals truths that transfer from the natural world to the spiritual world. Scripture always shows us the natural before the spiritual. 1 Corinthians 15:46 teaches us this transferrable concept when it saysIt is not the spiritual that is first but the natural, and then the spiritual.​We just looked at how the natural man calls the head of household, father, and how the natural man uses titles to honor men in general, and how the natural man uses the title “father” to honor certain men – all without any Scriptural prohibition. Yet, many will harshly condemn those who recognize any spiritual titles men may possess, to include using the title, father. Scripture simply does not teach any such prohibition. We have a few examples of spiritual titles being embraced without condemnation.
Randal W Deese ​1. The secular-spiritual title of Reuel.​Getting back to Reuel, it is very clear that Moses referred to his father-in-law as Jethro, “His Excellence”. As we discussed before, Exodus 3:1, names Reu-el as the Prince and Priest of Midian. Since Reuel was a recognized as priest of Midian with a specific title, we understand that this was more than an honorary title – it was a spiritual title. So, Moses referred to his father-in-law not only using an honorary title, but a spiritual title.
Randal W Deese Scripture cannot contradict ScripturePriests, Prophets, Counselors and Kings (naaman and saul) ) or an honorary title given to prophets and priests (Judg. 17:10Jdg 17:10  And Micah said unto him, Dwell with me, and be unto me a father and a priest, and I will give thee ten shekels of silver by the year, and a suit of apparel, and thy victuals. So the Levite went in18:19; Judges 18:18-19 KJV  And these went into Micah’s house, and fetched the carved image, the ephod, and the teraphim, and the molten image. Then said the priest unto them, What do ye?  19  And they said unto him, Hold thy peace, lay thine hand upon thy mouth, and go with us, and be to us a father and a priest: is it better for thee to be a priest unto the house of one man, or that thou be a priest unto a tribe and a family in Israel?Elisha cried out to his spiritual Father Elijah when Elijah was leaving him.2 Kings 2:12: And Elisha saw it, and he cried, My father, my father, the chariot of Israel, and the horsemen thereof. And he saw him no more: and he took hold of his own clothes, and rent them in two pieces.Jehoram, King of Israel considered Elisha his spiritual Father while consulting him for battle advice.2 Kings 6:21:  And the king of Israel said unto Elisha, when he saw them, My father, shall I smite them? shall I smite them?Joash, another king of Israel acknowledged Elisha as his spiritual Father at Elisha’s death.2 Kings 13:14 KJV  Now Elisha was fallen sick of his sickness whereof he died. And Joash the king of Israel came down unto him, and wept over his face, and said, O my father, my father, the chariot of Israel, and the horsemen thereof….and unless we think this idea was just under the Old Covenant…
Randal W Deese Apostle Paul regularly referred to Timothy as his spiritual child, which implies Paul’s spiritual Fatherhood.1 Corinthians 4:17: Therefore I sent to you Timothy, my beloved and faithful child in the Lord, to remind you of my ways in Christ1 Timothy 1:2: To Timothy, my true child in the faith: grace, mercy, and peace from God the Father and Christ Jesus our Lord1 Timothy 1:18: This charge I commit to you, Timothy, my son, in accordance with the prophetic utterances which pointed to you, that inspired by them you may wage the good warfare2 Timothy 1:2:  To Timothy, my beloved child: Grace, mercy, and peace from God the Father and Christ Jesus our Lord2 Timothy 2:1: You then, my son, be strong in the grace that is in Christ Jesus”Philippians 2:22: But Timothy’s worth you know, how as a son with a father he has served with me in the gospelApostle Paul referred to Titus as his spiritual child as well.Titus 1:4: To Titus, my true child in a common faith: grace and peace from God the Father and Christ Jesus our SaviorPaul considered Onesimus his spiritual child as well.Philemon 10: I appeal to you for my child, Onesimus, whose father I have become in my imprisonment
Mark Ramsy Forgive me father for I have … naah I dont buy this
Randal W Deese Each of these men just mentioned were in a spiritual father-son relationship with Apostle Paul. He considered himself their spiritual Father. Moreover, Paul considered himself the spiritual father to entire congregations.1 Corinthians 4:14-15: I do not write this to make you ashamed, but to admonish you as my beloved children. For though you have countless guides in Christ, you do not have many fathers. For I became your father in Christ Jesus through the gospel.2 Corinthians 12:14: Here for the third time I am ready to come to you. And I will not be a burden, for I seek not what is yours but you; for children ought not to lay up for their parents, but parents for their childrenGalatians 4:19: My little children, with whom I am again in travail until Christ be formed in you!1 Thessalonians 2:9-12: For you remember, brothers, our labor and toil: we worked night and day, that we might not be a burden to any of you, while we proclaimed to you the gospel of God. You are witnesses, and God also, how holy and righteous and blameless was our conduct toward you believers. For you know how, like a father with his children, we exhorted each one of you and encouraged you and charged you to walk in a manner worthy of God, who calls you into his own kingdom and glory.
Mark Ramsy naah
Randal W Deese Peter considered himself a spiritual father as well, referring to Mark as his son:1 Peter 5:13: She who is at Babylon, who is likewise chosen, sends you greetings; and so does my son Mark.
Randal W Deese Apostle John is well known for considering himself a spiritual father to many believers.1 John 2:1: My little children, I am writing this to you so that you may not sin; but if any one does sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous3 John 4:  No greater joy can I have than this, to hear that my children follow the truth.Peter, Paul, and John understood their roles as spiritual fathers in those passages. So, with both the Old and New Testament evidence presented, it is very clear that when Jesus Christ says, “Call no man Father on earth”, he was in no way placing an prohibition upon recognizing and calling spiritual leaders, Fathers. This is absurd! The very idea that Christ forbids such a concept is based upon personal prejudices, not God’s Word. This would make the Apostles hypocrites, and create too many contradictions in the Bible.
Joseph D. Absher God gave me good father. He’s gone on to his reward so no thank you. I don’t need one wearing a backwards collar and bowing down to statues.
Randal W Deese The people of Israel bowed down to a snake on a pole
Randal W Deese By the way… You should know that clerical clothing began with protestants non-Catholics
Randal W Deese Joseph D. Absher I do not expect any person to bow to me
Randal W Deese Calling somebody their spiritual father is both valid in the Old Testament and the New Testament… Taking Jesus out of context is like saying Matthew 55 proves we should all follow the law today
Joseph D. Absher You want to hear what Pentecostals the ones in small circles think about a collar?
Randal W Deese There are many Penecostal groups where the pastor wears the collar
Joseph D. Absher Sure
Randal W Deese Joseph D. Absher There is no prohibition against wearing a clerical collar… It actually can help in ministry
Joseph D. Absher Sure
Joseph D. Absher Sorry if disrespected you. Do you pray with sinners to get right with God.
Randal W Deese Joseph D. Absher I do more than that… I am sure that they are becoming disciples of Christ and don’t leave them on their own
Joseph D. Absher Of course. Follow up is essential. But generally I see people many times. I saw a man last night I prayed with many times last summer. Homeless Alcoholic. He’s working and saved and has his own apartment now. I actually forgot to ask his phone number again. Sometimes they don’t have one. The thing is to start them praying and calling on the name of Jesus for salvation. Church preaching is different. Church is altogether different. Are you saying you wear collar and encourage or let people call you Father?  Do you kiss another man’s ring. I’ve had people kiss my hands when they get saved and delivered when they know they’re dying. But it’s strange. I wouldn’t recommend it for us mortals.
Scotty Searan My daddy believe that scripture that Jesus said don’t call no man father but the Father in heavenHe told his children do not call me father call me Daddy that’s good enough for me because Jesus and God is our father and that is the way we were raised and I still call him daddy even though he’s gone
Randal W Deese It actually means the same in English…
Randal W Deese In fact, you could translate that Greek word into daddy just as well as father
Mark Ramsy Nope Not really This combination of hyperbole and imperative causes me to lean towards the impression that these are titles which are not to be sought by religious leaders whowish to sit and speak with the authority of Moses, when they should be humble beforeGod
Randal W Deese Troy Day If what you say is true, it would be sent to call Abraham our spiritual father… You obviously are taking one verse and make it a big Doctrine out of it
Randal W Deese Troy Day I gave you 30 verses that prove your point wrong… And this is all you have to say?
Randal W Deese Even Stefan use the term father when speaking to Jewish spiritual leaders
Randal W Deese Troy Day Next, you’ll try to convince me that Matthew 5:5 should not be understood within the rest of context of scriptures
Joseph D. Absher Mr Randal W Deese why would anybody want to be called father given the words of Christ
Randal W Deese Joseph D. Absher The words of Christ have nothing to do with being called a spiritual father. It is a Biblical term used in both Old and New Testaments.. only American Christianity seems to ignore it Hebraic usage…
Mark Ramsy That’s not true Randal Solomon J. Solomon wrote an interesting article on this in Jewish Quarterly Review vol 13 (1900-1901). Briefly, Solomon gave some reasons to support the proposition that first century Jews used PATHR approximately the same way we would use “saint.” Solomon understood hRABBI as “my master;” however, I can’t help wondering if Jesus was using the title a bit more sarcastically “my great one.” KAQHGHTHS, Solomon claims, was equivalent to moreh (Aramaic malfono) which is generally translated “teacher” or “guide” but is translated twice in the Targum of Isa 30:20 as Shekhina.
Randal W Deese Troy Day he was wrong
Joseph D. Absher When someone says the words of Christ have nothing to do with it, that’s a red a flag. A big one.
Randal W Deese Joseph D. Absher When someone takes one passage while ignoring the other 30 on the topic, that is like JWs do.
Joseph D. Absher Nice. But no cigar.
Randal W Deese Joseph D. Absher Apostle Paul regularly referred to Timothy as his spiritual child, which implies Paul’s spiritual Fatherhood.1 Corinthians 4:17: Therefore I sent to you Timothy, my beloved and faithful child in the Lord, to remind you of my ways in Christ1 Timothy 1:2: To Timothy, my true child in the faith: grace, mercy, and peace from God the Father and Christ Jesus our Lord1 Timothy 1:18: This charge I commit to you, Timothy, my son, in accordance with the prophetic utterances which pointed to you, that inspired by them you may wage the good warfare2 Timothy 1:2:  To Timothy, my beloved child: Grace, mercy, and peace from God the Father and Christ Jesus our Lord2 Timothy 2:1: You then, my son, be strong in the grace that is in Christ Jesus”Philippians 2:22: But Timothy’s worth you know, how as a son with a father he has served with me in the gospelApostle Paul referred to Titus as his spiritual child as well.Titus 1:4: To Titus, my true child in a common faith: grace and peace from God the Father and Christ Jesus our Savior
Randal W Deese Each of these men just mentioned were in a spiritual father-son relationship with Apostle Paul. He considered himself their spiritual Father. Moreover, Paul considered himself the spiritual father to entire congregations.1 Corinthians 4:14-15: I do not write this to make you ashamed, but to admonish you as my beloved children. For though you have countless guides in Christ, you do not have many fathers. For I became your father in Christ Jesus through the gospel.2 Corinthians 12:14: Here for the third time I am ready to come to you. And I will not be a burden, for I seek not what is yours but you; for children ought not to lay up for their parents, but parents for their childrenGalatians 4:19: My little children, with whom I am again in travail until Christ be formed in you!1 Thessalonians 2:9-12: For you remember, brothers, our labor and toil: we worked night and day, that we might not be a burden to any of you, while we proclaimed to you the gospel of God. You are witnesses, and God also, how holy and righteous and blameless was our conduct toward you believers. For you know how, like a father with his children, we exhorted each one of you and encouraged you and charged you to walk in a manner worthy of God, who calls you into his own kingdom and glory.
Joseph D. Absher I’m sorry you’re not getting off the hook for dismissing the words of Christ.
Randal W Deese Joseph D. Absher All of Scrpture is the words of Christ
Robbie Asbury seems like the point is to not call anyone on earth your Spiritual Father, like many do in various denominations, however I do not see how it applies to our none Spiritual / birth father.
Scotty Searan Robbie Asbury Don’t try to interpret.  Take it as it says.   That is what is wrong with so many in the churches now days.  They try to interpret instead of taking it as it says..
Robbie Asbury 2 Tim 2:15 ……:)
Randal W Deese Then Paul considering himself spiritual father to many was wrong
Robbie Asbury thats good point randall
Robbie Asbury he did call many his son in the Lord
Randal W Deese Robbie Asbury Each of these men just mentioned were in a spiritual father-son relationship with Apostle Paul. He considered himself their spiritual Father. Moreover, Paul considered himself the spiritual father to entire congregations.1 Corinthians 4:14-15: I do not write this to make you ashamed, but to admonish you as my beloved children. For though you have countless guides in Christ, you do not have many fathers. For I became your father in Christ Jesus through the gospel.2 Corinthians 12:14: Here for the third time I am ready to come to you. And I will not be a burden, for I seek not what is yours but you; for children ought not to lay up for their parents, but parents for their childrenGalatians 4:19: My little children, with whom I am again in travail until Christ be formed in you!1 Thessalonians 2:9-12: For you remember, brothers, our labor and toil: we worked night and day, that we might not be a burden to any of you, while we proclaimed to you the gospel of God. You are witnesses, and God also, how holy and righteous and blameless was our conduct toward you believers. For you know how, like a father with his children, we exhorted each one of you and encouraged you and charged you to walk in a manner worthy of God, who calls you into his own kingdom and glory.
Robbie Asbury so there must be an answer, becsuse scriptures cant contradict and must be harmonized somehow
Randal W Deese Robbie Asbury exactly
Robbie Asbury wonder if spiritual fatherhood could relate to Pauls annointing from the Lord? jist thinking out loud
Robbie Asbury if once saved we do nothing by ourselves bit as directed by the Lord….again thinking out loud so dont stone me yet lol
Robbie Asbury still seems like God simply doesnt want us to imply that anyone else holds his soverign position in heaven
Robbie Asbury or anywhere for that matter
Randal W Deese Robbie Asbury Jesus criticized Jewish leaders who love “the place of honor at feasts and the best seats in the synagogues, and salutations in the market places, and being called ‘rabbi’ by men” (Matt. 23:6–7). His admonition here is a response to the Pharisees’ proud hearts and their grasping after marks of status and prestige. He was using hyperbole (exaggeration to make a point) to show the scribes and Pharisees how sinful and proud they were for not looking humbly to God as the source of all authority and fatherhood and teaching, and instead setting themselves up as the ultimate authorities, father figures, and teachers. Christ used hyperbole often, for example when he declared, “If your right eye causes you to sin, pluck it out and throw it away; it is better that you lose one of your members than that your whole body be thrown into hell” (Matt. 5:29, cf. 18:9; Mark 9:47). Christ certainly did not intend this to be applied literally, for otherwise all Christians would be blind amputees! (cf. 1 John 1:8; 1 Tim. 1:15). We are all subject to “the lust of the flesh and the lust of the eyes and the pride of life” (1 John 2:16).
Robbie Asbury thats good stuff
Randal W Deese Robbie Asbury Jesus is not forbidding us to call men “fathers” who actually are such—either literally or spiritually. To refer to such people as fathers is only to acknowledge the truth, and Jesus is not against that. He is warning people against inaccurately attributing fatherhood—or a particular kind or degree of fatherhood—to those who do not have it.
Randal W Deese Paul regularly referred to Timothy as his child: “Therefore I sent to you Timothy, my beloved and faithful child in the Lord, to remind you of my ways in Christ” (1 Cor. 4:17); “To Timothy, my true child in the faith: grace, mercy, and peace from God the Father and Christ Jesus our Lord” (1 Tim. 1:2); “To Timothy, my beloved child: Grace, mercy, and peace from God the Father and Christ Jesus our Lord” (2 Tim. 1:2).
Robbie Asbury do you think Paul having authority from on high had something tondo with it at all?
Robbie Asbury like did he have special permission so to speak to use such terms since He was one with Christ ?
Randal W Deese Robbie Asbury Peter and John did same
Robbie Asbury forgive my laymans terms lol
Randal W Deese Robbie Asbury Peter considered himself a spiritual father as well, referring to Mark as his son:1 Peter 5:13: She who is at Babylon, who is likewise chosen, sends you greetings; and so does my son Mark.Apostle John is well known for considering himself a spiritual father to many believers.1 John 2:1: My little children, I am writing this to you so that you may not sin; but if any one does sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous3 John 4:  No greater joy can I have than this, to hear that my children follow the truth.Peter, Paul, and John understood their roles as spiritual fathers in those passages.
Robbie Asbury so just the parts where he says not to would be like a teaching scenario where he doesnt wanted people to be all puffed up and prideful
Randal W Deese Robbie Asbury I believe he is confronting their pride
Robbie Asbury makes one wonder because it says hes a jealous God, very much does he address their are no other gods beside him, ect…..i see easily where would assume he dont want word father used by anyone
Robbie Asbury but how your explaining it makes sense context wise
Randal W Deese Robbie Asbury I love Father Abraham
Scotty Searan Robbie Asbury, Randal W Deese  You have brought out some good points.  I just did a quick check and 32 of 75 Father is mentioned in Paul’s writings were the father and the rest were of the heavenly father.  But I am not going to hold it against someone who is called father by a child..  But my children do not call me father.Yes I believe If Jesus said something was offending you, you should get rid of that part.  I take him seriously not as a hyper hole.
Randal W Deese Scotty Searan Do you call Abraham your Father?
Robbie Asbury for sure if you feel any sort of conviction in ya heart about being called father then I would agree thats whats right for you
Scotty Searan Randal W Deese No
Randal W Deese Scotty Searan The Bible says he is our Father
Robbie Asbury well interesting study, God bless you all, i will pray for more understanding on topic and appreciate you all
Scotty Searan Randal W Deese Only one Father that is God.
Joshua A. Humphries Or just don’t use titles/honorifics. I don’t.
James H. Boyd Following
Diana Kay Miller Sheek You birth father can be called father, but no other man on earth that has religious connections are to be called father.
Randal W Deese So Paul calling Abraham our Father is sin?
Diana Kay Miller Sheek He probably called him father because Abraham was called the Father of the beginning of the Jewish nation although that really didn’t begin until Jacob’s name was changed to Israel. God doesn’t want you to replace Him with a priest or pastor that you would call Father instead of God.
Randal W Deese Diana Kay Miller Sheek Jesus gave no exceptions
Randal W Deese Diana Kay Miller Sheek Apostle Paul, Peter and John encouraged people to acknowledge their spiritual fatherhood – a lost art of American Christianity
Diana Kay Miller Sheek That is true. That is a subject that only God can answer. I agree with that Scripture that you talk about and what I said is my opinion not fact. We have a heavenly Father, Father of all creation, Father of Jesus Christ. I don’t think we are to call popes, priests, pastors Father.
Randal W Deese Diana Kay Miller Sheek Both the Old and New Testament have plenty of examples of recognizing spiritual fathers. I encourage everyone to teach the whole counsel of God on this matter
Diana Kay Miller Sheek We do recognize our religious leaders but we don’t call them Father. My pastor he was father of one son, and that we could call him Brother Bill, Bill or Billy. He said he was our pastor but not to lord it over us. We pray to our heavenly Father and not to our spiritual leaders. We recognize leaders that have founded our church or started our church and hold them in high esteem but we do not call them Father in the sense that they are God the Father.
Randal W Deese Diana Kay Miller Sheek Well I guess you wouldn’t have fit in with apostle Paul… He called himself the father of many churches and specific people as well… I think I’ll stick to the Bible
Diana Kay Miller Sheek Father as in starting churches but not to be called Father as they call the Pope Father. Paul was an earthly father that started several churches. But then if you see it this way, why even ask the question? If the Bible says to call no man Father, then which would you go by since Jesus Himself said to call no man Father except your Father in heaven?
Diana Kay Miller Sheek I won’t argue this point because God is my Father, Jesus is my Savior and my pastors are my spiritual leaders.
Randal W Deese Diana Kay Miller Sheek By the way, it is 100% more Biblical to recognize spiritual fathers than recognizing a person called Pastor in Scripture. No man is referred to as a pastor in scripture…
Randal W Deese When Jesus forbid calling people fathers, it was within the Jewish Sanhedrin… it wasn’t a general rule… Or apostle Paul would’ve been sinning
Diana Kay Miller Sheek Even Paul said that God set pastors in the church. Pastor is just another name for a shepherd tending the flock. Spiritually, it is saying call no pope or priest Father as in God the Father. They think they should be called Father like God because they believe they are God on earth which is wrong. There is a difference between Father God and calling a man Father as if he is God. And the Jewish Sanhedrin did not call their leaders father, they are priests. Jesus was telling His church to call no man Father.
Mark Ramsy It’s wrong – to put it simply
Randal W Deese Only if you say that Paul was wrong… He encouraged his own spiritual father hood be recognized… Go look up although words used in the Bible that’s translated from the Greek word, call… There is no way around this
Mark Ramsy wow Randal yall are out of church quickly ?
Randal W Deese Troy Day Actually, I am traveling this Sunday… Which is not my preference
Mark Ramsy traveling home?
Randal W Deese Troy Day …no

4 Comments

  • Reply December 27, 2019

    Varnel Watson

    no priest is a holy father like Our Father There is just no way possible IMO and the BIBLE is explicit about it Joe Absher Deacon Joseph Bell werent aware of no catholic deacons either

  • Reply December 27, 2019

    Joe Absher

    They have them . . maybe they smoke and drink and cuss once in awhile but they are typically good men .

  • Reply December 27, 2019

    Deacon Joseph Bell

    In Matthew 23:9 Jesus says, “And do not call anyone on earth ‘father,’ for you have one Father, and he is in heaven.” If this means that we are not to call anyone, our own fathers, or people we venerate, or church leaders father, then most of Jesus’ disciples got it wrong. Even Jesus must have misunderstood what he meant. In Mt. 3:9 Jesus refers to Abraham as father. In Mark’s gospel (Mark 11:10) the people call out, “Blessed is the coming kingdom of our father David.” Why doesn’t Jesus stop to tell them they should call no man father? Even Mary calls Joseph Jesus’ father (Luke 2:48) and Jesus doesn’t correct her. In Luke 11:11 Jesus even calls a group of men father: “Which of you fathers, if your son asks for a fish, will give him a snake instead.” In Acts chapter 7 Stephen calls the men listening to him brothers and fathers. Paul tells the Corinthians that he became their father (1 Cor 4:15). John, in his first letter refers to the fathers to whom he is writing (1 John 2:13). If Jesus meant not to refer to anyone as father then he and his disciples must have gotten it all wrong.

    Matthew 3:9
    And do not think you can say to yourselves, ‘We have Abraham as our father.’ I tell you that out of these stones God can raise up children for Abraham.

    Mark 11:10
    “Blessed is the coming kingdom of our father David!” “Hosanna in the highest heaven!”

    Luke 2:48
    When his parents saw him, they were astonished. His mother said to him, “Son, why have you treated us like this? Your father and I have been anxiously searching for you

    Luke 11:11
    “Which of you fathers, if your son asks for a fish, will give him a snake instead

    Acts 3:13
    The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, the God of our fathers, has glorified his servant Jesus. You handed him over to be killed, and you disowned him before Pilate, though he had decided to let him go.

    Acts 7:2
    To this he replied: “Brothers and fathers, listen to me! The God of glory appeared to our father Abraham while he was still in Mesopotamia, before he lived in Harran

    Acts 22:1
    “Brothers and fathers, listen now to my defense.”

    1 Corinthians 4:15
    Even if you had ten thousand guardians in Christ, you do not have many fathers, for in Christ Jesus I became your father through the gospel

    Philippians 2:22
    But you know that Timothy has proved himself, because as a son with his father he has served with me in the work of the gospel

    1 Thessalonians 2:11
    For you know that we dealt with each of you as a father deals with his own children

    1 Timothy 5:1
    Do not rebuke an older man harshly, but exhort him as if he were your father. Treat younger men as brothers

    James 2:21
    Was not our father Abraham considered righteous for what he did when he offered his son Isaac on the altar?

    1 John 2:13
    I am writing to you, fathers, because you know him who is from the beginning. I am writing to you, young men, because you have overcome the evil one.

    Holy

    1 Thessalonians 3:13
    May he strengthen your hearts so that you will be blameless and holy in the presence of our God and Father when our Lord Jesus comes with all his holy ones

    Romans 1:7
    To all in Rome who are loved by God and called to be his holy people: Grace and peace to you from God our Father and from the Lord Jesus Christ

    1 Corinthians 1:2
    To the church of God in Corinth, to those sanctified in Christ Jesus and called to be his holy people, together with all those everywhere who call on the name of our Lord Jesus Christ—their Lord and ours

    1 Corinthians 7:14
    For the unbelieving husband has been sanctified through his wife, and the unbelieving wife has been sanctified through her believing husband. Otherwise your children would be unclean, but as it is, they are holy

    2 Corinthians 1:1
    Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus by the will of God, and Timothy our brother, To the church of God in Corinth, together with all his holy people throughout Achaia

    Ephesians 1:1
    Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus by the will of God, To God’s holy people in Ephesus, the faithful in Christ Jesus

    Philippians 1:1
    Paul and Timothy, servants of Christ Jesus, To all God’s holy people in Christ Jesus at Philippi, together with the overseers and deacons

    Colossians 1:2
    To God’s holy people in Colossae, the faithful brothers and sisters in Christ: Grace and peace to you from God our Father.

    1 Thessalonians 2:10
    You are witnesses, and so is God, of how holy, righteous and blameless we were among you who believed

    Hebrews 2:11
    Both the one who makes people holy and those who are made holy are of the same family. So Jesus is not ashamed to call them brothers and sisters

    Hebrews 3:1
    [ Jesus Greater Than Moses ] Therefore, holy brothers and sisters, who share in the heavenly calling, fix your thoughts on Jesus, whom we acknowledge as our apostle and high priest

    Revelation 22:11
    Let the one who does wrong continue to do wrong; let the vile person continue to be vile; let the one who does right continue to do right; and let the holy person continue to be holy.”

  • Reply December 27, 2019

    Varnel Watson

    Deacon Joseph Bell Matthew 23:9 And do not call anyone on earth ‘father,’ – a very definite aorist imperative no arguing with it ; Not same as teacher – we dont call no one holy teacher and it is not said we have one teacher in Heaven but it does say the reason we call NO one father is because our Father is in Heaven

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