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PadreChris New | PentecostalTheology.com
It is utterly impossible to lose your salvation. Discuss.
Brody Pope [02/03/2016 9:55 PM]
Lord Jesus here we go.
Tj Stoner [02/03/2016 10:02 PM]
http://realbible.net/short-studies/once-saved-always-saved/
Billy Winneroski [02/03/2016 10:13 PM]
If you could NOT lose your salvation, then why would Matthew 7:22-3, which says
“Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles? Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you! Away from me you evildoers!” would not be written, correct?
Ricky Grimsley [02/03/2016 10:17 PM]
2 Peter 2:20-21 KJVS
[20] For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning. [21] For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it , to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
Steve Webb [02/03/2016 10:18 PM]
http://www.pathwaybookstore.com/Item/31669/UnconditionalEternalSecurityMythorTruth
Good read…
Ricky Grimsley [02/03/2016 10:27 PM]
It sure seems like jesus has the option to blot you out?Revelation 3:5 KJVS
[5] He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.
Vlad Stepanov [02/03/2016 10:31 PM]
Already discussed
Ricky Grimsley [02/03/2016 10:32 PM]
1 Corinthians 9:27 KJVS
[27] But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.
Gloria Ramos [02/03/2016 10:41 PM]
Would not want to chance it.
Brody Pope [02/03/2016 10:46 PM]
Free Will comes into play as well.
Daman Self [02/04/2016 12:25 AM]
If you Stop Believing In Jesus Christ Who He Is And What He Did At The Cross And Walk Away And You Go Back Into The World Then you Can Lose your Salvation But As Long As you Keep your Faith In Jesus Christ Who He Is And What He Did At The Cross Then you Wont Lose Your Salvation Ask Donnie SWAGGART He Can Explain It Better Or Ask God God Can Tell you Look in Gods Word The Bible
William Lance Huget [02/04/2016 12:27 AM]
PadreChris New I assume you are a TULIP Calvinist? The Bible sternly warns about the possibility of apostasy/falling away: Heb. 3: 6:4-6; 10, etc.
Just as the saving power and grace of the Spirit can be rejected (vs universalism), so the keeping power and grace of the Spirit can be rejected (vs OSAS/POTS).
http://www.amazon.com/Long-Faithfulness-Case-Christian-Perseverance/dp/1629214698
William Lance Huget [02/04/2016 12:28 AM]
http://www.amazon.com/Life-Son-Robert-Shank/dp/1556610912
Michael Marquez [02/04/2016 12:28 AM]
Maybe a better way to put it is this: A Christian cannot lose his/hers salvation. But a Christian can cease being a Christian and therefore would have no salvation as only Christians have salvation.
John Ruffle [02/04/2016 12:29 AM]
OP: how can you loose something you don’t fully have?
WAS saved
AM BEING saved
WILL BE saved
Nick Willis [02/04/2016 3:44 AM]
“Eternal Security”
Things Children of God Can Do:
1. Fall from grace – Gal. 5:1-4,13
2. Be led away with error – 2 Pet. 3:17
3. Err from the truth – James 5:19-20
4. Weak brother may perish – 1 Cor. 8:11
5. Fall into condemnation – James 5:12
6. Be moved away from the hope – Col. 1:21-23
7. Deny the Lord who bought them – 2 Pet. 2:1
8. Depart from the living God – Heb. 3:12
9. Can be a castaway – 1 Cor. 9:27
10. Can become accursed children – 2 Pet. 2:14
Revelation 2:4-5 “‘But I have this against you, that you have left your first love. ‘Remember therefore from where you have fallen, and repent and do the deeds you did at first; or else I am coming to you, and will remove your lamp-stand out of its place-unless you repent.”
FALLING AWAY FROM JESUS “THE FAITH” ->
1 Timothy 4:1-2
Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons, 2 speaking lies in hypocrisy, having their own conscience seared with a hot iron,
2 Thessalonians 2:2
Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, 2 not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come. 3 Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, 4 who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.
Also we can have our names BLOTTED OUT of The Lambs Book of Life
Revelation 3:5
He who overcomes shall be clothed in white garments, and I will not blot out his name from the Book of Life; but I will confess his name before My Father and before His angels.
Revelation 2:4-5 “‘But I have this against you, that you have left your first love. ‘Remember therefore from where you have fallen, and repent and do the deeds you did at first; or else I am coming to you, and will remove your lamp-stand out of its place-unless you repent.”
The Falling away of Christians before Christs return which we are seeing right now.
Hebrews 10:26-38
26 For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins,
27 but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries.
28 Anyone who has rejected Moses’ law dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses.
29 Of how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace?
30 For we know Him who said, “Vengeance is Mine, I will repay,” says the Lord. And again, “The Lord will judge His people.”
31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
32 But recall the former days in which, after you were illuminated, you endured a great struggle with sufferings:
33 partly while you were made a spectacle both by reproaches and tribulations, and partly while you became companions of those who were so treated;
34 for you had compassion on me in my chains, and joyfully accepted the plundering of your goods, knowing that you have a better and an enduring possession for yourselves in heaven.
35 Therefore do not cast away your confidence, which has great reward.
36 For you have need of endurance, so that after you have done the will of God, you may receive the promise:
37 “For yet a little while,
And He who is coming will come and will not tarry.
38 Now the just shall live by faith;
But if anyone draws back,
My soul has no pleasure in him.”
Once Saved, Always Saved says that sin will not separate you from God. The same lie Satan told Eve in the Garden. Nothing new under the sun.
HERE ARE SOME OF THE MOST COMMON VERSES THAT PROFESSING CHRISTIANS USE OUT OF CONTEXT TO DEFEND THEIR WICKED LIFE OF SIN.
– – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – –
(1 TIM 2:15)
This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.
IF ONLY YOU WOULD READ FROM VERSES 12 TO 15, INSTEAD OF JUST VERSE 15, YOU’D CLEARLY SEE THAT PAUL WAS REFERRING TO HIS PRE CONVERSION STATE.
– – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – –
(ROMANS 7:14 TO 20)
IN THIS PASSAGE, PAUL IS REFERRING AGAIN TO HIS PRE CONVERSION STATE, AND HOW HE DID EVIL, AND DID NOT DO WHAT IS RIGHT.
IN ORDER TO UNDERSTAND CORRECTLY, ONE MUST READ ROMANS 6,7, AND 8, AND NOT JUST TAKE A FEW VERSES FROM CHAPTER SEVEN OUT OF CONTEXT.
WHEN ONE READS CHAPTERS SIX AND EIGHT, YOU CAN SEE A PAUL THAT IS NOT LIVING IN BONDAGE TO SIN AND THE FLESH, BUT A PAUL WHO’S WALKING ACCORDING TO THE SPIRIT.
– – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – –
(1 JOHN 1:8)
If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
THIS IS ONE OF THE MOST COMMON VERSES USED OUT OF CONTEXT BY THESE SIN LOVING PROFESSING CHRISTIANS. HOWEVER, AGAIN, THEY REFUSE TO READ THE PASSAGE IN CONTEXT.
THE VERSES PRIOR AND AFTER SAYS THAT WE CAN BE CLEANSED OF ALL SIN, AND ALL UNRIGHTEOUSNESS,
(((( BUT )))) WE CERTAINLY HAD TO ADMIT WE HAD SIN IN OUR LIVES, IN ORDER FOR GOD TO FORGIVE AND CLEANSE US.
((( AN EVIL HEART OF UNBELIEF )))
(Hebrews 3:12-14)
12) Beware, brethren, lest there be in any of YOU an evil heart of unbelief in DEPARTING FROM THE LIVING GOD;
13) but exhort one another daily, while it is called “Today,” lest any of you be HARDENED through the DECEITFULNESS OF SIN.
14) For we have become partakers of Christ (( IF )) we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end…
– – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – –
AS YOU SAW IN THAT PASSAGE, GOD IS SPEAKING TO BORN AGAIN CHRISTIANS, ADDRESSING THE BRETHREN. HE SIMPLY SAYS THAT THE DECEITFULNESS OF SIN CAN HARDEN YOU, CAUSING YOU TO HAVE AN EVIL HEART OF UNBELIEF, WHICH CAN CAUSE YOU TO DEPART FROM THE LIVING GOD.
Henry Bezalel [02/04/2016 4:13 AM]
Well.A good question to ponder over.
John Kissinger [02/04/2016 6:14 AM]
Come on Brody Pope Already thoroughly discussed http://www.pentecostaltheology.com/is-it-possible-for-someone-to-lose-their-salvation/
John Conger [02/04/2016 9:10 AM]
Read scripture and its not hard to see what God has to say about it.
Carolyn Parker [02/04/2016 11:24 AM]
Carolyn Parker The Bible says he that endures until the end I will in no ways cast out
Ricky Grimsley [02/04/2016 11:37 AM]
We have to endure till the end. Our faith has to hold, but its still all by grace because without hime we can do nothing. Philippians 2:12-13 KJVS
[12] Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. [13] For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.
Its by him that we even want to do good.
Ricky Grimsley [02/04/2016 11:41 AM]
We have to grow in grace. 2 Peter 3:17-18 KJVS
[17] Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness. [18] But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever. Amen.
Michael Postlethwait [02/06/2016 7:56 AM]
Lose yes it is impossible. Knowingly forfeit by your own conscious choice to no longer be a Christ Follower, no that is not impossible. See Charles Templeton.
John Conger [02/06/2016 10:59 AM]
It plainly says the have”escaped” not just heard the way. Another prime example of people reading the bible to prove what they already believe
Michael Postlethwait [02/06/2016 11:09 AM]
Jesus doesn’t throw us out because of a particular sin, but that doesn’t mean that a willful choice to thwart God’s will continually can’t bring us to the point of hardness whereby we make an eventual decision to reject Christ — which is by definition apostasy.
Mary Ellen Nissley
1Cor 15:1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; 2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
Gal 5:1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage…. 4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.
Col 1:21 And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled
Col 1:22 In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:
Col 1:23 IF !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel…
1Tim 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith…
1Tim 5:12 Having damnation, because they have cast off their first faith.
Heb 2:1 Therefore WE ought to give the more earnest heed to the things which we have heard, lest at any time WE should let them slip.
Heb 2:2 For if the word spoken by angels was stedfast, and every transgression and disobedience received a just recompence of reward;
Heb 2:3 How shall WE escape, if WE neglect so great salvation…
Heb 3:12 Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in DEPARTING FROM the living God.
Heb 3:13 But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin.
Heb 3:14 For WE are made partakers of Christ, IF WE hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;
Heb 12:15 Looking diligently lest any man fail of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up trouble you, and thereby many be defiled;
Heb 12:16 Lest there be any fornicator, or profane person, as Esau, who for one morsel of meat sold his birthright.
Heb 12:25 See that ye refuse not him that speaketh. For if they escaped not who refused him that spake on earth, much more shall not we escape, if we turn away from him that speaketh from heaven:
James 5:19 Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him;
James 5:20 Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.
2Pe 2:20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
2Pe 2:21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
Rev 3:5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life…
Rev 3:15 I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot.
Rev 3:16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.
Rev 22:19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
Varnel Watson
Yes it is. Many have been lost for the kingdom Brody Pope David
David Lewayne Porter
I did not reply because I did not seem to think it deserves one.
Jesus did say that no one could pluck us out of his hand,
Yet he also said Luke 9:61-62
And another also said, Lord, I will follow thee; but let me first go bid them farewell, which are at home at my house. And Jesus said unto him, No man, having put his hand to the plough, and looking back, is fit for the kingdom of God.
Not fit, after having committed to following Jesus.
I hope we can all agree following Jesus is salvation.
Adam Penley
i thinks losing is bad phrase for its not in the Bible i think its better to say we can give up our salvation or walk away from yhe but losinh our salvation, we cant lose Jesus but can walk away from because be have freewill.
Shawn Herles
Yes, it is impossible for true believers to lose their salvation as salvation is an act of God’s free grace and totally independent of our own worthiness or actions.
David Lewayne Porter
Then Heb 10:26-29 must give you a fit…
For it speaks of one thst actually knew Him as Saviour and Lord and then no longer does.
We are under more surer punishment than the Old Testament (read it for yourself).
Shawn Herles
Heb:10 26-29 speaks of someone who deliberately keeps sinning, despite knowing Jesus. Now, we know we have forgiviness of sins through the blood of Christ, and that His blood is sufficient to cover all sins, so it cannot be sinning alone that means this individual was lost, but that he was never truly saved to begin with. Simply knowing who Jesus is is not sufficient, the devil knows who Jesus is. Here is a good discussion of the passage. http://www.pilgrim-covenant.com/ntagq/hebrews-10-26to27
David Lewayne Porter
Shawn Herles
You are exactly right.
“Receiving the knowledge of the Truth”
Is not just those that hear.
It is those that receive and apply as in “BELIEVE”.
It does not mean those never saved (or as you put it never genuinely saved).
Vs 29 clarifies that for you.
It is very clear,,,,
Hebrews 10:29
Of how much “sorer punishment”, suppose ye, shall [[he]] be thought worthy, [[((who)) hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant]], wherewith [[((he)) “was sanctified”]], an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
HE
was SANCTIFIED, can’t be sanctified until after/or at the point when you are redeemed.
So how do you figure they were never genuinely saved. ….
Peter Ciple
Impossible or possible?
Tony Conger
Is there a difference between losing your salvation and forsaking it?
Varnel Watson
One is probable and possible and the other utterly impossible?
Tony Conger
I think so
Robert Erwine
only for the Calvinist
Michael Hazlewood
More expression of spiritual ignorance WOW
Miller Isaac
So no one knows how to know when you receive the spirit baptism? JESUS said we can know in John 3.
Michael Hazlewood
2 mins
Bible Verses About Backsliding King James Version
Proverbs 14:14 – The backslider in heart shall be filled with his own ways: and a good man [shall be satisfied] from himself.
Proverbs 24:16 – For a just [man] falleth seven times, and riseth up again: but the wicked shall fall into mischief.
Jeremiah 3:12 – Go and proclaim these words toward the north, and say, Return, thou backsliding Israel, saith the LORD; [and] I will not cause mine anger to fall upon you: for I [am] merciful, saith the LORD, [and] I will not keep [anger] for ever.
Jeremiah 3:22 – Return, ye backsliding children, [and] I will heal your backslidings. Behold, we come unto thee; for thou [art] the LORD our God.
Jeremiah 8:5 – Why [then] is this people of Jerusalem slidden back by a perpetual backsliding? they hold fast deceit, they refuse to return.
Jeremiah 14:7 – O LORD, though our iniquities testify against us, do thou [it] for thy name’s sake: for our backslidings are many; we have sinned against thee.
Jeremiah 24:7 – And I will give them an heart to know me, that I [am] the LORD: and they shall be my people, and I will be their God: for they shall return unto me with their whole heart.
Hosea 14:1 – O Israel, return unto the LORD thy God; for thou hast fallen by thine iniquity.
Hosea 14:4 – I will heal their backsliding, I will love them freely: for mine anger is turned away from him.
Luke 9:62 – And Jesus said unto him, No man, having put his hand to the plough, and looking back, is fit for the kingdom of God.
2 Corinthians 13:5 – Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?
Ephesians 2:8-9 – For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God: (Read More…)
Hebrews 2:1-3 – Therefore we ought to give the more earnest heed to the things which we have heard, lest at any time we should let [them] slip. (Read More…)
Hebrews 6:4-6 – For [it is] impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, (Read More…)
2 Peter 2:20-22 – For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning. (Read More…)
1 John 1:9 – If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us [our] sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
Revelation 2:1 – 4:11 – Unto the angel of the church of Ephesus write; These things saith he that holdeth the seven stars in his right hand, who walketh in the midst of the seven golden candlesticks; (Read More…)
Thomas Henry Jr.
Real Christians can’t lose their salvation. Only those who still holding on to Romanish doctrine of salvation believes one adds to what Christ already done.
Jesus said it was Finished! He didn’t say it was half done now you do the rest.
Kelly Crites
Thomas Henry Jr.
Nora Neel-Toney
Thomas Henry Jr. so do you believe that a person gets saved and then returns to the sins of the world that he/she is still a Christian. That is false teaching. If a person goes back into the world and sins, continues in sin, they are hell bound unless they repent and stop their sins and worldly ways.
Thomas Henry Jr.
Nora Neel-Toney I love posts like this because it shows two things:
1. You don’t know scripture
2. You don’t know the theology you’re fighting
My friend if you are saved by grace through faith apart from works then you are indeed a friend in Christ the Bible is VERY CLEAR on this point ONE CANNOT CLAIM TO BE SAVED AND LIVE A LIFESTYLE OF SIN. Romans 6 and 1 John 3 is very clear on this.
I have made it abundantly CLEAR as have others here in this group that GOOD WORKS FLOW OUT OF SALVATION. We are not saved because we are Holy, we are Holy because we are saved and SHOULD PRODUCE WORKS THAT TESTIFY TO THAT FACT.
Thomas Henry Jr.
Nora Neel-Toney if you believe salvation can be lost then you are no different than the Roman Catholic that believes in WORKS-BASED SALVATION
Nora Neel-Toney
Thomas Henry Jr. you are out of place to judge me and my beliefs. Since you pass judgement you don’t know much
Thomas Henry Jr.
Nora Neel-Toney you are out of place to judge my beliefs by the standard you are now using. Scripturally I can judge you righteously by the scriptures. And I have!!!!
Thomas Henry Jr.
Nora Neel-Toney you tried to call a teaching you actually misconstrued false. You didn’t articulate it right at all.
Varnel Watson
Thomas Henry Jr. could you point us to at least 1 verse in the BIBLE that uses your phrase ” Real Christians ” I see Real Christians backsliding every day – whats up with that?
Thomas Henry Jr.
I never said real christians don’t fall but they do not walk away and never come back… that is not biblical.. 1 John 3 tells us if you practice sin you are not born of God.
Varnel Watson
I would like to see you try what you preach You literally said
Thomas Henry Jr. Real Christians can’t lose their salvation.
you didnt say fall or walk or stand or else
I am still asking that you point us to at least 1 verse in the BIBLE that uses your phrase ” Real Christians
Varnel Watson
https://www1.cbn.com/cbnnews/entertainment/2019/august/ex-pastor-joshua-harris-shows-lgbtq-support-at-vancouvers-pride-parade
Alan Smith
OK. So I can’t agree with his lifestyle of being a gay man, BUT Asking this…
Is Joshua ‘losing his salvation’ or is he ‘laying it down’?
maybe the second question would be…
Can you Lay down your salvation?
Isara Mo
Troy Day
You can renounce Christianity but you cannot renounce salvation.
Christianity is a religion, salvation is not.
Isara Mo
Alan Smith
Question is was he SAVED in the first place?..
Who knows THAT but the one who saves, i.e the Saviour..
Varnel Watson
https://www.christianpost.com/news/hillsong-writer-reveals-hes-no-longer-a-christian-im-genuinely-losing-my-faith.html
Isara Mo
Troy Day
Can you lose something you dont have?…
You have to have it before you lose it…
Faith is a very personal thing not a group behaviour and most people deceive themselves they have it until they realize they didnt have it ALL ALONG…
Apostle Paul paused a very chalenging question in one of his epistles.
He said ” Test yourself if you are in the faith, examine YOURSELF…”
He didnt say let a group examine you…he said TEST YOURSELF…
Doesnt the Bible say the human heart is deceitful ?
Varnel Watson
Philip Williams this morning a question – is it JUST stress OR is it possible these NEW church breeds mislead believers on purpose to misguide millenials and create the last days apostasy? http://www.pentecostaltheology.com/seeker-emerging-church-movement-the-new-face-of-heresy/
John Duncan
Paul believed we could “fall from Grace.” As he told the Galatians they had in 5:4 by going back to the works of the law for justification.
Robert Erwine
check under the couch cushions
Varnel Watson
your salvation is stapled there forever
Nora Neel-Toney
The Bible plainly speaks about backsliding
Varnel Watson
where?
Nora Neel-Toney
I’ll have to look it up. Do you mean you haven’t read it?
Nora Neel-Toney
Jer 2:19, 5:6, Hosea 11:7, 14:4.
Nora Neel-Toney
Troy Day there are many scriptures in the Bible that talks about backsliders and backsliders. You need to read your Bible!
Varnel Watson
Nora Neel-Toney all those are conditional
Philip Williams
Troy Day backsliding is backsliding and God’s Spirit will not strive with man forever.
Alan Smith
Nora Neel-Toney OT
Philip Williams
Alan Smith New Testament all the way!
“For I do not want you to be ignorant of the fact, brothers and sisters, that our ancestors were all under the cloud and that they all passed through the sea. They were all baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea. They all ate the same spiritual food and drank the same spiritual drink; for they drank from the spiritual rock that accompanied them, and that rock was Christ. Nevertheless, God was not pleased with most of them; their bodies were scattered in the wilderness. Now these things occurred as examples to keep us from setting our hearts on evil things as they did. Do not be idolaters, as some of them were; as it is written: “The people sat down to eat and drink and got up to indulge in revelry.” We should not commit sexual immorality, as some of them did—and in one day twenty-three thousand of them died. We should not test Christ, as some of them did—and were killed by snakes. And do not grumble, as some of them did—and were killed by the destroying angel. These things happened to them as examples and were written down as warnings for us, on whom the culmination of the ages has come. So, if you think you are standing firm, be careful that you don’t fall!”
1 Corinthians 10:1-12
Alan Smith
Philip that IS the NT but Paul was quoting and retelling of fellowship with idolatry within the history of Israel, in the OT.
Old Covenant was under the cloud the symbol of God’s presence, and baptized unto Moses.
New Covenant is under Grace (unmerited favor) and covered by Yeshua’s blood.
“by faith… well pleasing” to God New Covenant in contrast to Paul speaking of the Israelites “with many of them God was not well-pleased” Old Covenant.
In verse 12… be careful that you don’t fall.. Paul was speaking more to the church that they don’t fall from their place in the church, being looked down upon. Our security is in HIM, in faith. As far as it relates to ourselves, that is in FEAR!
I refuse to live in FEAR, FEAR is the absence of peace in God, the absolute opposite of FAITH!
God is faithful
Philip Williams
Alan Smith I see that you don’t fear God any more than the rest of this Godless world today. But because you are purporting to be teaching about God, the Scriptures declare that you certainly will be held more accountable for putting your own light on God’s Scriptures. If you keep this up God might further harden your heart and you will never be able to repent.
Alan Smith
Philip Williams wow, you think God will use that measuring stick against you as well???
So judgemental, just typical.
You can project your judgemental attitude in another direction.
Varnel Watson
the very notion of penance is heretical namely the unGodly unBiblical idea that one can do works that would count more than the Cross of Christ is a plain heresy Sola Fide is indeed enough God doesnt need helpers in sotireology
Philip Williams
Alan Smith
Do you suppose that rebuking someone for scorning the word of God and warning of his judgment is what Jesus meant by not judging?
Philip Williams
Alan Smith Jesus warns us about whom to fear.
“But I will show you whom you should fear: Fear him who, after your body has been killed, has authority to throw you into hell. Yes, I tell you, fear him.” Luke 12:5
Nora Neel-Toney
Backsliding is backsliding. If the person stays from God back into the world on sin, he/she is a backslider. Unless they pray for forgiveness and accept Christ as their personal Savior they are lost in sin. In my opinion they will not go to heaven. As a Christian we are to live a Holy Life unto God. End of discussion.
Jesse James Sullivan
But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.”
Revelation 21:8 NKJV
https://bible.com/bible/114/rev.21.8.NKJV
Varnel Watson
maybe Brett Smith UE can tell us more about this
Brett Smith UE
I assume you mean because I’m Calvinist? We definitely have a unique understanding in this regard. We believe in the “perseverance of the saints” which is just a fancy way of saying that those who are saved will persevere in their faith until death. Contrary to the popular misunderstanding regarding our belief, this does NOT mean that those who are saved will not continue to sin or have spiritual doubts, it only means that they will never completely fall away and lose their converted condition.
I understand that Pentecostals have a different view as Pentecostals are Arminian in their soteriology and so believe that those who are saved can backslide and lose their place as one of the saved (but can also return of course). It’s a point of disagreement, for sure, but it’s not one I lose any sleep over
Varnel Watson
Brett Smith UE are you a Pentecostal calvinist ?
Alan Smith
watching…
Varnel Watson
Joe Absher the very notion of penance is heretical namely the unGodly unBiblical idea that one can do works that would count more than the Cross of Christ is a plain heresy Sola Fide is indeed enough God doesnt need helpers in sotireology
Joe Absher
2 Corinthians 5:21 KJV — For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.
Is it just plain old pride? Deception? How can someone think charity or even sacrificial deeds would replace the awful death of Christ. He is the lamb for sinners slain