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What do you all think of this?
Steve Webb [01/09/2016 7:35 PM]
Unless the title is misleading and the article states otherwise…I think it’s leading people to hell.
John Kissinger [01/09/2016 7:38 PM]
Steve Webb He gives Mary for an example first “unmarried pregnant teen”
Eric Shonebarger [01/09/2016 7:39 PM]
Haven’t read the article: Unwed Pregnancy isn’t the sin–The fornication was. I’m hoping that is where he is going.
John Kissinger [01/09/2016 7:49 PM]
My point exactly – except if you’re pregnant by the Holy Spirit there can be no comparison with Mary and the point Steve Webb made is TRUE
Randy Buchanan [01/09/2016 8:03 PM]
He’s saying believers should lose their spirits of condemnation when a young person gets pregnant out of wedlock and celebrate the life being conceived. This would go along with what Paul taught in Galatians 6 as well.
As far as Mary is concerned, to the public at large she was having an unwed pregnancy.
Our focus as followers of Christ is to provide love and restoration not condemnation and pointing of fingers which drives people out of the church when they are at their most vulnerable moments.
If we are truly pro-life we can celebrate the life of an unborn regardless of whether it was conceived in marriage or in fornication.
John Conger [01/09/2016 8:15 PM]
The pregnancy isn’t the sin, it’s how it happened
Melody Cates Kinzer [01/09/2016 8:44 PM]
Comparing Mary’s unwed pregnancy to that of any other woman was foolish of the author. Mary’s was an immaculate conception by the Holy Spirit. With that being said, I do understand the rest of the article. No, unwed pregnancy is not a sin but the act that led to the unwed pregnancy is. Premarital sex IS a sin. However, the unborn child has not sinned and his/her life should be celebrated. Condemning any sinner, unwed mother or whoever, is NOT out job. Even Jesus said “I come into the world not to condemn the world but to save it.” If we, as a church, shun an unwed mother, we are sending out a very poor message of Jesus’ love. Condemning a young women…or an older woman for that matter, will surely push her away from Christ. Showing her the love of Jesus will bring her closer to Christ. Should we condone sex before marriage? Absolutely NOT. If a pastor is doing what most pastors that I have known do, he is preaching the word and somewhere, sometime she will or has already heard that premarital sex is a sin. It is up to her to repent and ask forgiveness. It is up to us to love her and show her that she is loved by Jesus, who died for her sins.
John Kissinger [01/09/2016 8:48 PM]
My point exactly – except if you’re pregnant by the Holy Spirit there can be no comparison with Mary and the point Steve Webb made is #TRUE
Steve Webb [01/09/2016 9:02 PM]
Heretical indeed John Kissinger. 1 Corinthians 6:18 is pretty clear in this case. I skimmed the article and to put it nicely like I usually do…it’s garbage. Baptist, Methodist, Charismatic, Pentecostal…the Bible is clear in such matters.
The comparison of Mary is just ignorance of the Word, and in fact the article in its entirety shows a person trying to make scripture fit their sin.
While we are to gently correct those in sin per 2 Timothy 2:25, those teaching should be sharply rebuked per Titus 1:13 and others.
John Kissinger [01/09/2016 9:12 PM]
Misleading is when you tell people the church van would run and it does not. When you start telling them Mary was just another teen pregnant out of wedlock, there’s much more in question – like our Savior’s nature and this is just for starters
Melody Cates Kinzer [01/09/2016 9:21 PM]
Is mislead not a synonym for deceive? That is the meaning I was referring to.
Melody Cates Kinzer [01/09/2016 9:35 PM]
This is where I was heading: mis·ledplay -?ledmis·lead·ing
transitive verb
: to lead in a wrong direction or into a mistaken action or belief often by deliberate deceit
intransitive verb
: to lead astray : give a wrong impression
Curtis Wesley [01/09/2016 9:54 PM]
The pregnancy is not a sin, but the act committed to get that way is.
Timothy D McCune [01/09/2016 11:19 PM]
I believe the meat of the article was to have the church open its eyes to stop judging unwed pregnant young people and or single ladies. To stop whispering behind their backs and instead to come alongside them to guide them with love , grace and mercy. If you want to point the sin of the young lady that put “her” there, y’all left out one Big detail the young man that participated in the sin with her. Yes it is a sin but we as the church must move past it show the love of Jesus or more young people will leave our churches and more abortions will follow these unwed pregnancy. God bless you all. Go in Peace.
John Kissinger [01/10/2016 7:15 AM]
I agree Timothy D McCune but is the price for that questioning immaculate conception of Christ?
John Kissinger [01/10/2016 9:00 AM]
John Ruffle “It is telling that Jesus himself was an unwed pregnancy. Mary became the most vulnerable of women—an unmarried pregnant teen” Do you feel this is an appropriate example for the topic?
Timothy D McCune [01/10/2016 11:05 AM]
I think that while it makes most Christians cringe to put Mary in the same category as an unwed pregnant Mother, that is what she was. I feel the author could have used more tact or respect showing Mary as the engaged bride to be of Joseph pregnant by Immaculate conception. There is a difference between Mary and teens willingly sinning, there doesn’t seem to be a difference in people’s hearts in the way they judge them. If we put Mary and a local pregnant church teen next to each other not knowing who they are , they will both get the same looks the whispers the same judgments.
Richard Johansen [01/10/2016 11:26 AM]
Who are u to judge there is only one judge. Call your selves christians
Richard Johansen [01/10/2016 11:36 AM]
Let those who live without sin cast the first stone. Tut tut tut
John Ruffle [01/10/2016 11:56 AM]
I’m glad to see so much respect being paid to the Blessed Virgin Mary!
John Kissinger [01/10/2016 1:31 PM]
Richard Johansen Judgment expressed was most certainly not toward the subjects of the article, but against the author’s comparison between the virgin’s Mary immaculate conception of Christ with unmarried teen pregnancies, which are obviously neither virgin, nor immaculate and most certainly not of Christ.
Richard Johansen [01/10/2016 1:33 PM]
Thankyou for your clarification. I understand what you mean?
John Ruffle [01/10/2016 2:45 PM]
Sure but just think of the social stigma Mother Mary must have gone through. When she said the divine “yes” she was risking getting stoned to death. Joseph, whom she was engaged to, had to get convinced via a dream. Things were not looking good for the Mother of Our Lord cirumstantually. So if one oerson xan identify wuth fear and rejection, it’s Mama Mary. Only, she overcame by her faith (read: unwavering confidence God), so therefore pregnant, unmarried teenagers can draw strength and succor through our Lord Jesus Christ.
Timothy Carter [01/11/2016 2:51 PM]
This is the point I got from the article.
Timothy Carter [01/11/2016 2:53 PM]
Yes. This is what I get from the article.
Timothy Carter [01/11/2016 2:59 PM]
Biblical you are correct. The article is wrong with the comparison with Mary. However the overall point is that we should not comment sin again the un-wedding mother. We should recognize that everyone can sin. Even our on self. We should show her Christian LoVE from the Christian community. How else will she find proper Bible teaching? Where will she turn for help if the Christian community stands in judgment?
Timothy Carter [01/11/2016 3:00 PM]
Yes Timothy I agree with your understanding of the article.
Timothy Carter [01/11/2016 3:05 PM]
If we understand the Word we will hear people judge Mary. Even Joseph was going to put her away quietly because he thought she was an unwed mother as any other.
We know that she is our Lord’s mother because we have read the story. But think about the people in the community who did not get a visit from an angle. They did NOT know the whole story.
Timothy Carter [01/11/2016 3:07 PM]
Thanks John Ruffle.
Dan Woods [01/12/2016 8:54 AM]
Evocative, but needs a fuller treatment. The mother and baby (and father and grandparents-to-be) must be loved, but the precipitating sin must not be swept under rug. By grace we must love without measure, but in truth without compromise.
James Locklair Locklair [01/12/2016 10:35 AM]
All are born in sin except Jesus he had no earthly father
Bruce Augenstein [01/12/2016 12:00 PM]
Its referred to as fornication.
Scotty Searan
No. But they did commit sin, Because they either committed fornication or adultery to become pregnant and they are sins.
Vincent Christina Young
They can be forgiven though
Scotty Searan
Vincent Christina Young You are right. They can be forgiven.
Scotty Searan
Vincent Christina Young This is something I question. I have a problem with a women having multiple pregnancies out of wedlock. Should that women that does so be allowed to hold a position in a church?.
Vincent Christina Young
Position in a church? Like a pastor or just any person that wants to go to a church and pray to God?
Vincent Christina Young
I don’t think so but I don’t know Scotty Searan
Andrew T. Stube
Same as a teenager mastrubating, we sinned. This type of sin done in the privacy of a Christian’s room cause him or her to postpone marriage when at 22 after undergrad should do what is natural and marry your best friend.
Mike Stidham
What if your “best friend” refuses to marry you because a) she “just wants to be friends” or b) he thinks same-sex marriage is a sin?
Louise Cummings
Scotty Searan no in my opinion. They need to prove themselves before holding an office. One time you might can trust them and they really might be sorry they committed that sin. But time after time. She needs a pastor or someone to show love to them. And be something like a router to then. If it is kept up. They shouldn’t hold office in church until proven. That’s the way I feel.
Louise Cummings
Mike Stidham doesn’t give her a right to sin. Pray for God to send some that will love you and be a good Christian and good worker in the church. Withdraw from the other.
Louise Cummings
I thi should come to church. And we should pray for them. But I think it according to what the Bible say. When he says not to be partakers of Of other men sin. That to me would be what we would be doing. If they was keeping on doing theses things. It would be like us partaking of their sin if we condoned it and let them keep doing it. And letting them hold an office in church.
Mike Stidham
Louise Cummings I did. Don’t let the cartoon avatar fool you, I’m almost retirement age. When I was young, it was the rule that when a girl says “I just want to be friends”, that DID NOT include sex; she didn’t want you within a mile! I’m just saying Andrew’s advice to “marry your best friend” when you reach a certain age is sometimes easier said than done!
Benjamin C Bratvogel
Technically the act of getting the woman pregnate is the actual consummation of two becoming one, or marriage. Now from this act there can be sins afterwards or during.BUT Ummm sure if you and your first time are virgins and you stay together till death, thats not in sin….but this is not marryiage in mans eye…is sex a sin to God?. I dont beleave so.in virgins staying together…….the term “marry” comes from the term to be fruitful and multiply or be merry, or be happy and procreate with your mate. In mans eye its a legal bond were you are joined in a marriage contract with property and personal wealth and usually a legal name change takes place. But 99% of the world has sex with mutiple people in life, and marriage in mans eye is not the same as Gods.
Benjamin C Bratvogel
Thus 99.99 % of the time sin is involded…
Bill Conder
Marriage is a holy, legal covenant between a man, woman, and God. Sex outside of that covenant is sin whether the two stay together for life or not. The pregnancy is not the sin, the act which caused the pregnancy is the sin. Where do people come up with this stuff?
Andrew T. Stube
Marriage is an act of calling your shot, saying what you mean and meaning what you say. Nothing like manning up to the fact that you are enthralled with the beauty of someone of the opposite sex.
Louise Cummings
Even in the New Testament. You was considered in bond with each other st engagement. But they was never considered married. Until marriage. And at a wedding. They kept the party going for sometimes for a week. And when a man seen a woman he wanted to marry. He had to ask her father. And pay a ransom or so much money for her. The Father would give some or all the money back to the daughter. So if something happens to the groom. She would have a way to live. Then he went to prepare a place for her. And when finished. The groom came to claim his bride. After the marriage ceremony. Then they came together as one.
Benjamin C Bratvogel
A ransom…? Hmmm i thought that only applied to kidnapping
Louise Cummings
I was married fifty three years when my husband. And my how I would do the sam thing again. I guess I cried for two years after he passed. It has been five and one half years. And still just thinking of him now. I still cry. Every married couple has problems sometimes I think. But they are worth staying with. I sure love mine.
Vincent Christina Young
As long as they believe in Jesus then they are forgiven of their sins
Grover Katzmarek Sr
And where in scripture do you form this false idea?
Vincent Christina Young
That’s what he says
Vincent Christina Young
Are you saying Jesus is not saying that?
Vincent Christina Young
If you ask Jesus if he can forgive you then you are saved . So are you saying that’s not true?
Vincent Christina Young
A lot of people are being misled to hell because they’re being brainwashed by false people
Juan Enrique Rodriguez
The words “pregnant out of wedlock” used again and again in reference to Mary, mother of Jesus in the comments to the article are, not only out of context, but also completely wrong. Mathew 1:18-19 says that she was “spoused” (MARRIED) to Joseph, before they came together, ….. Verse 19 mentions Joseph as her HUSBAND. According to the custom of the time, after the nuptial ceremony, he left to prepare a place for her; to come back approximately forty days later.
Paul Jones
It’s not being pregnant out of wedlock…it’s how you GOT that way.
Brody Pope
It’s not the pregnancy that’s a sin, it’s what you did you get that way.
Andrew T. Stube
It is a sin, but you don’t grind up and make hamburger of the baby.
Jimmy Parker
Yes there aint no grey area it’s either black or white go ahead call sin sin don’t back up
Louise Cummings
The fornication before marriage or through adultery with no husband is sin. But the baby can become great in the Lords eyes. Jephthah in the book of Judges. Was a son of a harlot. The Bible said. His half brothers run him out of his daddy’s home. He did well for himself. He was a man of God. And when his family that ran him off from his home. Came to get him to help win a war for them. His half brothers made him head of the army. He won those wars. But after that. He made a vow to God that made his work he did so sad. The Lord doe sent require us to make vows to Him. But if we do , we are not suppose to break them. He won twenty more cities. But he made a vow to God if He would him win Rhodes cities. He would give the first thing or the first that came out of his house. He would give it for a burnt offering to the Lord. His daughter came out first. It was against Gods Word to offer people as a burnt offering. So it caused his daughter to have to suffer. Because she had to stay a virgin all her life. To them they looked for their daughters to marry and have a son to carry their name on. But his daughter never married. She was willing for her father not to break his vow. So she stayed a virgin. He couldn’t have a son to carry his name on. But he kept his promise. And the one that sinned through through fornication. Can get forgiveness , when they ask the Lord. He will forgive them.
Scotty Searan
That was our Sunday School lesson a week ago.
Louise Cummings
It was ours. too.
Juan Enrique Rodriguez
Very well expressed. Thank God, and thank you.
Varnel Watson
Scotty Searan that was your Sunday School lesson ?
Scotty Searan
Troy Day: If I read the Bible correctly, I don’t believe the public knew that Mary was pregnant, because Joseph did not want to make a Public example of her.
I have came up through a time in society, when they sent young ladies away to a home for unwed mothers, or either the proverbial ‘SHOTGUN’ wedding. And Yes back in those days people stayed married longer than they do now, even in the ‘SHOTGUN’ wedding.
But our culture took a sharp turn on this issue in the late 60’s when ‘FREE’ love started with the hippies. It wasn’t long before abortion became legal.
Yes we are suppose to love our neighbors and do good to all people.
We have many ‘FEEL GOOD’ sermons preached today.
We have very few ‘SINNING ISSUES’ sermons anymore.
It would be interesting to know how much of the New Testament is dealing with SIN ISSUES.
Now to the issue of unwed mothers, the older ladies in the Lord, should help this mother deal with her situation.
Each situation is different. We should teach all that all Sex outside the bounds of marriage between a man and a woman is a sin.
When Jesus told the lady caught in adultery, He said He did not condemn Her. He did tell her that she had sinned in a indirect way. ‘NEITHER DO I CONDEMN THEE. GO AND SIN NO MORE.
God’s people is being inundated with false doctrine in the church.
I would encourage any unwed lady to pray for a Husband. They should not raise their children without a father.
I strongly discourage two single ladies raising children together, because of the temptation of homsexuality. That spirit is very prevalent in our society.
So many things to cover, because of different situations.
Varnel Watson
There were several cases in the Gospels where the public questions Jesus legitimacy, his father, mother, family and so on. It is very possible that they knew. It could not be easily hidden
Scotty Searan
But it wasn’t because of them knowing that Mary was pregnant before marriage
The accusations didn’t start till his ministry and he proclaiming himself to be the Son of God
Varnel Watson
you dont think they were able to figure it out?
Bill Woods
Well, I couldn’t read the article, it wouldn’t come up. But the answer to the question is easy = NO. Pregnancy is not a sin, unwed or otherwise. The fornication that got her pregnant unwed is sin. But not the pregnancy.
Varnel Watson
It’s not that difficult really. You just need to click on the picture Original article was by Chad C. Ashby Even Randy Buchanan was able to read it and left a comment on 01/09/2016 8:03 PM hhttps://chadashby.com/2015/08/19/brothers-and-sisters-unwed-pregnancy-is-not-a-sin/
Donald Harrison
Let us compare. A couple, educated and financially secure have a child out of wedlock. A married couple, high school dropouts, are unable to financially support the child. Where is the sin? The sin is bringing a child into the world while unwed? I understand religion. I also understand righteousness.
Jerry Eicher
The question of whether or not the pregnancy is sin assumes that fonication was commited. The Bible is clear that fornication is sin. Pregnancy however is not a sin.
Varnel Watson
Interesting conversation with many diverse points in it Randy Buchanan I’ve heard the Gal 6 argument you posted used both ways. When cited by the man in charge it was more in the lines of for each one should carry their own load. How are you interpreting Gal 6 in this situation ?