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The Case for Christian Socialism: Both the Capitalists and the Liberation Theologians Are Wrong
“For I was hungry and you did not give me to eat; I was thirsty and you gave me no drink; I was a stranger and you did not take me in; naked, and you did not clothe me; sick, and in prison, and you did not visit me.” Then they also will answer and say, “Lord, when did we see thee hungry, or thirsty, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister to thee?” Then He will answer them, saying, “Amen I say to you, as long as you did not do it for one of these least ones, you did not do it for me.” And these will go into everlasting punishment, but the just into everlasting life.
What has all this got to do with the case for Christian socialism? Just about everything, for Matthew 25 is the surest foundation for such a case. A wise priest once said, “To feed the hungry is a simple imperative, but it is not a simple undertaking.” It is not even simple these days to find a hungry person to feed, just in the course of your ordinary rounds. But there are millions out there just the same, in this country, and hundreds of millions beyond our national borders. Hungry for food, hungry for a decent home, hungry for a decent job that will make food and home possible for themselves and the families they have (or do not have because they can’t afford to have them), hungry for the self-respect that goes with providing these things for themselves without charity or welfare. How do we go about providing these things to satisfy these different kinds of hunger, for we are not so simple as to imagine that Jesus spoke only of providing a piece of bread or cup of water? How, in this complex world, do we arrange things so that Jesus will not one day say to us, “Depart from me, you who are accursed”?
Malthus taught that anything done to help the poor would only encourage overpopulation, since population increases by geometrical progression whereas the means of subsistence increases only by arithmetical progression. Of course Malthus never had the chance to meet Frances Moore Lappe or other modern experts on food production.
Ricardo’s Iron Law of Wages was almost equally damaging. He concluded from it that “like all other contracts, wages should be left to the fair and free competition of the market, and should never be controlled by the interference of the legislature.” Or trade unions. He did not live to see exactly how unfair and unfree “the competition of the market” could become.
Self-interest can be a powerful motivator, and not all of that motivation is bad. There is a legitimate role for self-interest. And the fortunate folks of the northern hemisphere, with their salubrious climate, natural resources, and the peculiar combination of Christianity and laissez-faire, were able to perform marvels of production that made many people better off than they had been before and few people very, very rich, and a good many very, very poor.
The Case for Christian Socialism: Both the Capitalists and the Liberation Theologians Are Wrong
Varnel Watson
Scotty Searan Jan Dixon Sykes Churchill has made the point finer than ever will but just to say it again that Christian socialism is but a philosophical oxymoron
Neither Acts ch. 3-7 make case for Christian socialism
Nor the jewish kibbutz system
The kibbutz system is actually a temporary migrant camp until democracy and republicanism was bestowed upon the newly found Israeli state
Socialism also differs by the early Church community in Acts ch. 3-7 by the fact that in Acts it was the Holy Ghost that selected the people not a socialist party. You show me just ONE of your so called socialism structures where the Holy Ghost elects leadership. May be sometimes soon on the Moon, but for right now on Earth there aint none
Purely theologically speaking, the very notion, expressed in the writings of Gustavo Guttierrez and Juan Luis Segundo, that private ownership of the means of production should be eliminated, and workers, peasants, and farmers left to the mercies of total nationalization and deprived of the right to own their own enterprises or work their own land, even as part of a cooperative. (A cooperative, though a form of socialized property, is nonetheless private property.)
But, you interject, “Whoa there, this isn’t socialism!” You’re wrong. This is precisely how socialism started in the early nineteenth century, before Marx got his collectivist teeth into it. This is what the Christian socialists such as John Ludlow, Philippe Buchez, and Archbishop Ketteler meant by socialism, what even secular socialists like Robert Owen, Louis Blanc, and Ferdinand Lassalle meant by socialism. And this is precisely how post-Marxian socialism is evolving in the modern era.
Proof: The Socialist International, a federation of non-communist socialist parties, has since 1951 operated under a charter known as the Frankfurt Declaration, which not only defends the legitimacy of “private ownership in… agriculture, handicraft, retail trade, and small and middle-sized industries” but also proposes the wide use of consumer and producer cooperatives. The Declaration also calls for the maximum decentralization of economic power consistent with “the aims of planning,” and the maximum participation of workers in “the direction of their industry.” And although they do not use the term “socialism” and would put a lesser emphasis on public ownership, this is how the U.S. Catholic Bishops tend to describe a Christian economy in their recent pastoral.
Scotty Searan
In the 4th paragraph of your remarks you hit the nail on the Head
The Holy Ghost did the appointing, i never said i agreed with Marxism socialism, communistic socialism or any other secular socialism and i would not allow their leadership or influences.
I am not saying elect a socialist government because sinners mess it up.
The early Christian were not made to give up there possessions by the Apostles and the 5 th chapter of Acts with Annanias and Sapphire should prove that
But what i am saying that the Christian community, not the secular world or the sinner person should have the same attitudes toward each other as the early Christians had in Acts. I believe this is what caused the persecution because the world had never seen anything like it.
WHY WOULD THE HOLY GHOST ALLOW THIS TO HAPPEN TO BE MENTIONED IF HE DID NOT EXPECT TO LIVE BY IT?
Varnel Watson
My remark is that NO socialism has nothing to do with the leadership of the Holy Ghost – No, never, none!
Scotty Searan
Troy Day I have never endorsed Marxism socialism or communistic socialism
But despite what you say the Bible does teach Christians socialism and the communal system probably what I should say it is in the Bible in Acts the second chapter all the way through the 6 chapter of Acts
Marxism socialism and communism socialism is an atheistic system which I disapprove of completely and I want no part of that in in that respect
Marxism socialism and communism socialism they take what they want by force and it is rule by a secular that is unfair in its Administrations the rich stay Rich the poor stay poor it is still a covetousness situation
Varnel Watson
Scotty Searan I already showed why there is NO way around that Even the so call christian socialists endorse Marxism Simply no way around it I dont know what else to say about socialism
Scotty Searan
What was going on in the early church and being taught was the gospel of the Kingdom in its pure unadulterated form that many people including you Troy Day and myself cannot comprehend
This was the Gospel of the Kingdom expounded on by Jesus Christ and talk to his disciples everyday
You will notice that all including the disciples sold their possessions and no one claimed possessions as their own but had all things in common they did it out of love for the brethren I believe that why the people did this was not because of what Peter James and John and the disciples talk at the day of Pentecost but it was also what Jesus had taught his disciples and talk the people in the streets on the hillsides in the houses in the temple also evidently it was making that kind of impression because they had heard Jesus teach these things he told the man the rich man that all he needed to do to be perfect was to sell what he had and give to the poor but he went away so horrible because he would very rich Zacchaeus in the tree salvation went come to his house that is what Jesus said and the conviction hit his heart so much that he took half of what he on and gave to those that he had done wrong or to the poor Jesus even talk that if you ask for your coat give me your cloak also a very strong people about when we saw people in various conditions and we did not help them what was that was a kingdom of God communal gospel
Scotty Searan
Troy Day these were so-called Christians if they were Christians they would not have endorsed it the Marxism socialism are the commonest socialism they were not Christians to do that
Scotty Searan
that is what the devil wants us to see he wants us to think that they were Christians when all the time by their fruits they were not Christians by what they were expounding on
Scotty Searan
what was in the book of Acts in the early church was the total epitaph of love being shown to humanity and it was growing by Leaps and Bounds in Jerusalem and that is why the church began to suffer persecution because the results of true love for the brethren which they did not see even in the Jewish law but they were seeing it in the lives of the Christians who was living out the kingdom of God and so the only way they could try to tear it down and the devil was doing it was to get in their hearts and persecute the church the church split up and went because of persecution it was persecution that drove Israel out of Egypt in the long run because they were being blessed by God despite the persecution by the Egyptians
Scotty Searan
What cause the failure of the so-called Christian socialism Troy Day that is you expound on is that they were not following the leadership of the Holy Ghost they were picking out man who were not full of the Holy Ghost as examples that was their failure they were using Satan and they were deceived by his examples and I am not deceived by Marxism socialism nor communistic socialism because of atheistic and full of the devil but I am standing on what the word says and I am not denying and I am not calling it something else that ain’t so Troy day tell me what you called what happened in the early church in the first six chapters of Acts give me a name because there was of some kind of system there give me a name you tell me that ain’t socialism you tell me it ain’t communal but give me a name I want to know what you call it you cannot deny it it’s in the Bible if you denied you might as well done gospel
Varnel Watson
Scotty Searan I dont think you are really a christian socialist. Neither you appear to know what exactly that thing christian socialism is. This is why I am confused why you take socialism discussions so personally when they are neither discuss you nor your convictions. This is what we know about the so called socialism in itsl expression as liberation kingdom-now theology:
Marxists’ false notion, embraced by liberation theologians such as Gustavo Gutierrez and Enrique Dussel, is the idea that the employer-employee (wage) relationship is of its nature and of necessity evil, enslaving, and alienating. Since power tends to corrupt, the cooperative relationship is better than the employer-employee relationship, but even cooperative workers must be paid wages and work under bosses. Public employers, as in the Marxist vision, can be even more oppressive than private. Nevertheless, some public ownership is necessary, as popes and bishops have acknowledged.
Scotty Searan
Troy Day You keep quoting these men as Christians, THese men are not Christians they are teaching a false doctrine that the Bible does not teach.
The Book of Philemon go against what these men espoused.
Now the Christian businessman has a responsibility to pay his employees for the quality and quantity of work to be done.
A Christian businessman will pay their employees a living wage because he loves his employees and also because they are his neighbors.. He will not be a Scrooge. THis will be done voluntarily because he loves his employees. I believe they will lower their standard of living to be on the level with his employees. I believe that was what the early Christians did in the Acts they all lived at the same level and did not flaunt their wealth. They had all things in common.
PLEASE TELL ME WHAT KIND OF SYSTEM WAS OPERATING IN THE EARLY CHURCH.
I am trying to get us on the same page.
I hate Marxism socialism and I hate Communistic socialism just as much as you do.
I do not believe in liberation theology. THat was what Jeremiah Wright was espousing though he called it black liberation theology and they got it from the older liberation theologians such as Gustavo Gutierrez and Enrique Dussel and I do not believe they were Holy Ghost filled theologians are they would not expound the garbage they spewed out.
Satan polluted Christian socialism through these rotten professors.
The one thing they did they lived on the same level and had all things in common that is scriptural.
What I am trying to say the devil polluted what Jesus taught and the early church believed. Like I said these people had heard Jesus teach and that is why they were doing the thing he done.
Most people don’t have trouble remembering 3 or 4 years ago, especially when the Holy Ghost is calling it back.
BUT PLEASE TELL ME WHAT KIND OF SYSTEM WAS IN OPERATION IN THE EARLY CHURCH. If you can get your blinders off and think about.
I have told you before I think outside the paradigm and most people don’t/.
Varnel Watson
Those man are the foundation of what you call Christian socialism (if there is even such a thing out there) Seems more and more to me though that you a designing your own type of Christian socialism that no one knows about out there and this is where the discussion stops to be about the real thing.
Liberation theologians, apparently incapable of distinguishing between the policies of Ronald Reagan and democratic government, and impatient with the failures of democratic reform in Latin America, have been ambiguous about the Marxist nonsense enshrined in the phrase “dictatorship of the proletariat.”
It is here where I among other have drawn the line and refused to accept such thinking as Republican – because it is not.
Building a wall to wall off a nation
Limiting immigration by a legality action
Closed economy and markets
are ALL socialist actions that started under Obama.
The natural development in this Marxist nonsense is“dictatorship of the proletariat.” Look it up – it’s pretty real and defines Christian marxism. The Socialist International is not ambiguous on this term. Their Declaration is: “Without freedom there can be no Socialism. Socialism can be achieved only through democracy.” And to make sure you understand that democracy cannot be reconciled with any kind of dictatorship, as in “democratic centralism,” it adds, “Every dictatorship… is a danger to the freedom of all nations and thereby to the peace of the world.”
Varnel Watson
Scotty Searan your approach toward the socialist discussion is like which one is first – the egg or the chicken; all and while I am telling you the egg is not from a chicken but from a snake…
Mike Cresswell
No – it’s unbiblical
Varnel Watson
Ed Atkinson said its at the end of Acts2
Mike Cresswell
Troy Day Ed Atkinson got it wrong … there is no such thing as acts 2 in the Greek.. it’s just one book written by Luke demonstrating Paul being an apostle throughout basically showing Ed got it wrong .. Paul starts several letters saying he is an apostle which was well after acts 2
Ed Atkinson
I was guiding you to the passage where Christians shared possessions. Yes, Chapter numbers were not original.
Ed Atkinson
The end of Acts2?
Varnel Watson
Mike Cresswell said it was unBiblical?
Mike Cresswell
Troy Day Ed Atkinson – sorry bud … pails ministry as goes onto well
Into acts
Ed Atkinson
Sometimes you can’t get a definitive answer from scripture.
Varnel Watson
Ed Atkinson I tried to give one below from ACTS
Varnel Watson
Ed Atkinson where about that end? After the end of ch. 2 we go to ch 3 for the last time at the temple. Then if there were any Christian communists they got arrested in ch 4 of Acts BY Acts 5 if there were any Christian communists they withheld money for themselves and the financial model if there was any collapsed Then in Acts 6 there were even more financial problems because the model obviously wasnt working well Then Stephen was killed in Acts 6 and if there were any christian communists they were scattered as far as Rome and Spain meaning they were not together in one single Christian Commune no more – so by the time we come to the end of ACTS such model is no more Does it mean they made a mistake in Acts and GOD corrected it for them? Mike Cresswell
Ed Atkinson
Troy, we can’t tell from the narrative what God’s ideal is. It is a narrative but I do get the feeling that Luke approves of the chapter 2 socialism.
Paul lays into the opposite of sharing when the Corinthians are individualistic at the Lord’s Supper
Mike Cresswell
Ed Atkinson that’s correct, acts 2 has traits of socialism but it’s not socialism
Varnel Watson
Mike Cresswell what traits would those be? DO you feel socialists partake from the Holy Eucharist ?
Mike Cresswell
Troy Day nah …. socialism is a failed political ideal and not of God hence why it fails every nation that is often forced to embrace it ..
Ed Atkinson
The NT can’t be expected to provide political theory. But the sharing in churches is surely endorsed and celebrated.
Varnel Watson
Ed Atkinson but we can certainly tell that THEIR idea did not work too well toward the END of ACts…
Varnel Watson
Mike Cresswell Ed Atkinson to even begin such mixed claims yall have to know a bit about socialism which I dont think you do It is communal type system based on the community producing a product, production with community owned tools What product did the early church manufactured to subscribe to socialism? Exactly !
Mike Cresswell
Troy Day I watched socialism for 40 years our kid … you are miles out … Norway is the only exception as it has massive natural resources … after that they all fail
Varnel Watson
Mike Cresswell Come again? Norway is not socialist country Where did you watch socialism ?
Mike Cresswell
Troy Day ?????mate, learn your facts ….
Varnel Watson
Mike Cresswell well when you get your facts from Burnie and other socialist idiots I cant help you I’ve ministered in MANY Scandinavian countries and assure you Norway is NOT socialist Only an idiot would believe Burnie https://www.forbes.com/sites/jeffreydorfman/2018/07/08/sorry-bernie-bros-but-nordic-countries-are-not-socialist/#725044c474ad
Ed Atkinson
Troy, I can’t see how the sharing ideal did not work by the end of Acts. It was not discussed as far as I know, which is another matter.
If community production is your definition of socialism, I don’t see examples in the NT.
Ugo Torcasio
Not at all! Private ownership is the norm in the Bible. The early Christians simply gave from their own private ownership. Socialism and its bedfellow communism, have a 3rd partner, atheism.
Varnel Watson
I have to agree with you Ugo Torcasio To some extent tho YES Adam Smith: The Father of Economics stated so However Smith was wrong on some countries The great PROTESTANT experiment in Ireland failed greatly Self-capitalism failed greatly in Ireland and they went bankrupt now stuck with the irish euro The great Max Webber theory about protestant values withing capitalism met its crush in Ireland NOT long ago
We also see American capitalism changing greatly under this administration too Just ask me for more on this one Mike Cresswell The myth of Nordic socialism is partially created by a confusion between socialism, meaning government exerting control or ownership of businesses, and the welfare state in the form of government-provided social safety net programs. However, the left’s embrace of socialism is not merely a case of redefining a word. Simply look at the long-running affinity of leftists with socialist dictators in Cuba, Nicaragua, and Venezuela for proof many on the left long for real socialism. Regardless of the perception, in reality the Nordic countries practice mostly free market economics paired with high taxes exchanged for generous government entitlement programs.
Mike Cresswell
Troy Day nonsense … no myth … it’s a socialist nation … Eire was never a capitalist or Socialist system … until recently it operates under the boot of the British Empire with all excess wealth going to London and that’s without the potatoes family … mate, honestly you are pulling this out of a rubbish text book somewhere ? Just give it a rest, this about Christ not man’s politics
Ed Atkinson
Ireland is Catholic
Varnel Watson
Mike Cresswell you really dont know what you are talking about when it comes to socialism Just read the articles from Forbes What else can I tell you ?
private property
private business
free markets
currency that operates based on actual product
freedom of speech
freedom of religion
what in Norway speaks socialism in any way ? except strong economy that takes care of some of the people
Ed Atkinson of course it is Hence my comment of its failure to reform in relation to Webbers principles #hello
Mike Cresswell
Troy Day – give me a break and leave it please… I’m not here to do politics
Varnel Watson
Mike Cresswell sorry mate you GOT NO case You spoke unprepared with false accusation I am just defending what I sad after you said it was wrong You many need to get your facts in order sometimes today on Norway 🙂
Mike Cresswell
Troy Day whatever … clueless ?please give it a rest or I’m blocking you
Varnel Watson
Mike Cresswell if you really think Norway is socialist which is not by any known standards THEN you must thin America is socialist because of if the direction toward
1) closed markets
2) walled borders
3) totalitarian state media
4) fake tax reform
5) hate thy neighbor
6) disregard Biblical morals, etc.?
#hello Ed Atkinson Gary Micheal Epping Neil Steven Lawrence
Ed Atkinson
Well in the UK the right of centre government is moving towards 2 3 4 5 and 6.
Mike Cresswell
Ed Atkinson right wing in the uk now
Ed Atkinson
I see them as right wing , but I want to be neutral.
Stephen Howsare
Ok I read 4 sentences, before I had to stop. My Matthew 25 case against, since the article tries to use it for support, this ‘argument’ holds no water or truth. I posted all, but 8-9 is my refutation of the premise your article tries to support. It never ceases to amaze me when ‘Christians’ try to support social justice, programs, whatever using scripture. Smh.
1 “Then the kingdom of heaven will be comparable to ten virgins, who took their lamps and went out to meet the bridegroom.
2 Five of them were foolish, and five were prudent.
3 For when the foolish took their lamps, they took no oil with them,
4 but the prudent took oil in flasks along with their lamps.
5 Now while the bridegroom was delaying, they all got drowsy and began to sleep.
6 But at midnight there was a shout, ‘Behold, the bridegroom! Come out to meet him.’
7 Then all those virgins rose and trimmed their lamps.
8 The foolish said to the prudent, ‘Give us some of your oil, for our lamps are going out.’
9 But the prudent answered, ‘No, there will not be enough for us and you too; go instead to the dealers and buy some for yourselves.’
10 And while they were going away to make the purchase, the bridegroom came, and those who were ready went in with him to the wedding feast; and the door was shut.
11 Later the other virgins also came, saying, ‘Lord, lord, open up for us.’
12 But he answered, ‘Truly I say to you, I do not know you.’
13 Be on the alert then, for you do not know the day nor the hour. Parable of the Talents (Matthew 25:1, NASB)
Varnel Watson
so what are you saying? you posted some verses Are you FOr or against the case stated in OP”?
Stephen Howsare
Troy Day against, everyone is responsible for themselves, we help those in need and who are deserving, as opposed to Socialism which takes from those who have earned and gives unjustly to who choose not to so are not deserving. There’s no commandments I’m aware of requiring we help those who refuse to help or earn for themselves. Social justice and redistribution of wealth, which is one of Socialism’s goals, are not biblical.
8 The foolish said to the prudent, ‘Give us some of your oil, for our lamps are going out.’
9 But the prudent answered, ‘No, there will not be enough for us and you too; go instead to the dealers and buy some for yourselves.’ (Matthew 25:8, NASB)
Ed Atkinson
That’s horrible
What about visiting those in prison etc which is doing it into Jesus himself?
Stephen Howsare
Ed Atkinson by all means visit those in prison, do all you can do, give all you can give. My argument is its our place to do and give, individually or through our religious organizations, not the governments place to take from some to give to others. If your aware of any verses that support that government role, please by all means post them.
Ed Atkinson
The bible doesn’t speak about politics hardly at all, but taxes are considered acceptable.
So it is up to us to bring our own attitudes of care and compassion to the ballot box, the love of Jesus can inspire.
Stephen Howsare
Ed Atkinson amen brother!
Nikki Sheppick
The world’s “socialism” is not of God, for it is by works and the might of man and his imaginiations. God’s “socialism” is displayed clearly on what He did on the cross at Calvary, and we of the Body of Christ call this: Love. For by His Holy Grace He provided in His Holy Power …. so that whosoever might come to Him for His Holy Way of Salvation, and the Name of that Way of Salvation is Jesus the Christ. Amen and Amen. <3
Varnel Watson
THANK YOU for this I posted a pending topic in the group WHERE a CA Bill is pushing the churches in THIS direction GOD forbid and keep as ALL safe
Gina Alston
Christian Socialism is an oxymoron. There’s no such thing.
When God divided up the land for each of the tribes of Israel He didn’t give them all equally the exact same thing. He gave to them according to the needs they had in order to fulfill the role He gave them to complete. When we try to make everybody equal we ignore each person’s gifts, talents, and God given roles. Our failures are just as important as our successes for making us who God wants us to be.
Ed Atkinson
Socialism is also according to need not flat equal for all. Eg the NHS will spend more on someone with cancer.
Gina Alston
Ed Atkinson but socialism tries to give an equal outcome, as to your cancer example.
Ed Atkinson
No, the aim of socialism is not that we all die at the same age with the same wealth. It really isn’t
Gina Alston
Ed Atkinson dying at the same age has nothing to do with it. That makes no sense.
Ed Atkinson
Gina, please spell out what you mean by the equality of outcome that you think socialism tries to give.
Gina Alston
Ed Atkinson that whether someone works hard or barely works, has a lot of talent or not much, etc. they would be guaranteed certain levels of income and benefits regardless of how God gifted them or challenges they might have.
Ed Atkinson
That is a great aim, but it is not equality. People in work get more than the basic guaranteed help.
Gina Alston
Ed Atkinson you’ve gone into an irrelevant rabbit hole. Socialism is evil and denies God’s sovereignty.
Ed Atkinson
Fine. I like it as a way to organize society
Henry Smith
Some socialistic ideas and policies fit comfortably with Christianity, but Socialism as an ideology is based on humanist, Marxist, secular principles that are in conflict with Christianity.
Mike Cresswell
Henry Smith I wished I’d said that – saved me a lot of grief
Ed Atkinson
Not in conflict with Christianity, just each answers different questions.
RichardAnna Boyce
A passage that has both intrigued and challenged me is 2 Corinthians 8:13-14:
“For I do not mean that others should be eased and you burdened;
but by an equality, that now at this time your abundance may supply their lack,
that their abundance also may supply your lack that their may be equality.”
Paul was surely talking primarily about material needs, but does this principle also apply to spiritual needs?
Paul was a good person to comment on relative needs and means of the churches. He had a rare “bird’s eye view” of the situation.
His view was not provincial or cloistered by the walls of a local church.
Paul’s concern for the poor saints in Jerusalem and his familiarity with the material resources (or lack thereof) of his churches was based on his travels and visits.
He was truly a world Christian fully aware of both material and spiritual needs in the churches.
It must have pained the apostle to visit a church where the believers lived in luxury after he had just spent time with those struggling to eat 1 good meal a day. What could he say?
He couldn’t pull a biblical TRUMP card to demand that they distribute their wealth. There is none.
In the context of the same passage Paul championed gracegiving (2Cor 9:7,15).
All he could do is remind people that there are great needsan inequality in wealthand there is a moral responsibility for believer to help believer, for one child of God to help his brother or sister.
Varnel Watson
Ed Atkinson Henry Smith yall may be confusing the BIBLE with some form of Cultural Marxism disguised as Democratic Socialism is the most Satanic doctrine of our times.
Ed Atkinson
The Bible doesn’t itself pronounce on political theory. It informs me on wanting my vote to make life better for the most vulnerable and poorest in society, especially the children.
Varnel Watson
NO there is NO such case in the BIBLE After reading most posts and especially Ed Atkinson I come to conclude that most here dont have a clue what socialism really IS One RichardAnna Boyce is just proving again and again the true calivinistic nature of his/her free grace 2 Cor has nothing to do with socialism OFF topic
Ed Atkinson
We all have different definitions of socialism. There is no correct definition.
Varnel Watson
Ed Atkinson If that is your political inclination WHO am I to judge right? But I protest about using the BIBLE to defend any satanic social order particular one with a communistic stance
IF it was BIBLICAL heaven was gonna be socialism INSTEAD it is still a divine theocratic monarchy #NoughSaid 🙂
Ed Atkinson
I have kept saying here that I don’t think that the Bible pronounces on political systems, theory, ideology etc. But as a voter who needs to make a judgement, there is some material in the teaching of Jesus especially that can help.
RichardAnna Boyce
Is there any Word from God about Christians in a world full of need?
Does the Bible teach socialism?
No, not if socialism is the forcible redistribution of wealth so that all people can be economically equal.
Yet we do see a voluntary sharing and equality encouraged.
In Acts 2:45 we see the earliest church voluntarily redistributing wealth and goods to meet the needs of those who had less.
RichardAnna Boyce
Charles Bing of FG says :- I live in the United States
which is well insulated from the needs of my fellow believers around the world.
Occasionally, an image of a hungry child will appear on my new largescreen TV,
but the remote is a great conscience appeaser—if I am fast enough with it.
But I also know that these appeals on TV, though supplying meals,
often or inadequately meet the greater spiritual hunger in these people.
However, when I go to India or Africa, I see believers struggling to purchase bus
fare to our conferences or sleeping on dirt floors so they can receive food
for their souls, and yes, three good meals a day too.
I see a pastor, a member of the FGA, who works two jobs in a capital city in Africa so he can support from his own salary 19 rural churches and pastors
(that is, Free Grace churches and pastors).
Of the 19 pastors, he is the only one who owns an automobile.
I have seen pastors in Russia who have had to place their children in an orphanage because they can’t feed them.
I have impulsively given an Indian pastor a small gift which was to me almost
spare change only to hear him say “Do you know that you have just given me two month’s income?”
When I told him I threw my Christian magazines away, he urged me to give them
to him because his church would bind them and pass them around for everyone
to read.
So it is hard when I come back to my life in the United States‐‐I admit it is hard to come back to my own home and sit in front of my large‐screen TV which would have paid for a year’s salary for most of the pastors I have just trained.
Or would have paid for some valuable theology books for every pastor present.
It is hard to go to my church and pray for people’s colds which will get better or
their knees which will get worse.
But financial and material needs aside, it is hard for me to see brothers and sisters who know the free grace of God, who really understand the glorious gospel of
grace, who have experienced liberty from bondage, yet who don’t seem too
concerned for brothers and sisters who don’t have a decent Bible, live in fear of
uncertainty about their salvation, or live under a yoke of bondage of legalism.
I guess it is “out of sight, out of mind.” No remote is even needed.
Nikki Sheppick
Just for clarity, in case some are confused as to what the topic is about: “so·cial·ism | ˈsō-shə-ˌli-zəm
Definition of socialism
1 : any of various economic and political theories …. advocating collective or governmental …. ownership and administration …. of the means …. of production and distribution …. of goods
2a : a system of society or group living …. in which there is no private property
b : a system or condition …. of society …. in which the means …. of production are …. owned and controlled …. by the state (government)
3 : a stage of society …. in Marxist theory …. transitional between …. capitalism and communism (enforced socialism, no choice) …. and distinguished by …. unequal distribution of goods …. and pay according to work done.” The topic is whether this is substantiated by Biblical teachings or not.
Nikki Sheppick
To me, the Holy Scriptures/the recorded Word of God …. do not support this, especially if it is being done by those of the world, for we are IN the world, not to be a part OF the world, BUT, and only in this one point …. according to the Holy Scriptures/the recorded Word of God, regarding our brethren in Jesus the Christ, we are to practice “socialism” among the brothers and sisters in Christ, therefore, implement the teachings about charity (i.e. love), regarding the caring for our own within the Kingdom family whose Head is Jesus the Christ. BUT, then, we are also, when, in seeing the downtrodden among human kind, be as Good Samaritans, when the Lord directs us to do it. Herein, are the Good Works, to which our Lord and Savior calls us to …. so that His Holy Name is honored over and above all. Amen and Amen. Blessings ….
Varnel Watson
right on Nikki Sheppick The topic is whether this is substantiated by Biblical teachings or not. Most ppl here are speaking of american democracy form of socialism which is oxymoron I can repost my explanation as why if there is interest