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The anti-WOF posts got me to thinking…..By the way, this is not pro or anti WOF though I do adhere to some of those beliefs which by the way really are beliefs passed on to them from the previous generation of pentecostals….
1) Several have argued about using OT references and applying it to today such as Deut 28. If this is true, the greatest ruse is perpetrated each week under the guise of tithing.
2) The modern church meeting in buildings seems to more resemble the OT temple. Again, keep those tithes going to keep the temple…ahem…the church building and salaries going…..
3) Many here that post are Pentecostal. But, some say women are to keep silent in church while others play the culture card. Do we play the culture card with passages we don’t like?
4) What is the initial evidence of the baptism? Some here disagree.
5) I remember some posters a long time ago believed Charles Stanley and OSAS people will split wide open. Really? If this is such a great gift, why didn’t Billy Graham have it?
6) Then there’s oneness and trinitarians…..who’s got the right formula for baptizing? I know it’s not an issue here but….if you don’t say in Jesus name….still unsaved….
7) Billy Graham seemed to be open to the notion that other faiths were “of the same fold” as us…
8) there’s divorce. How many views do we have here on the issue? i remember reading posters and pastors saying that staying in the second marriage is perpetual adultery…
9) Some good Godly people that I know are embracing gay marriage and you can still be saved as a gay person
10) We are opposed to abortion at conception but finding solid references saying the spirit of man enters at conception seems elusive. Therefore, many in the church are pro-choice up to 4 weeks…
Varnel Watson
sure thing Michael Ellis Carter Jr. Link Hudson
Varnel Watson
sounds like a dumb question BUT IS IT? Philip Williams has reported on several non-Pentecostal issues already
Varnel Watson
in relation to the REVELATION OF EVANGELICAL THEOLOGY Neil Steven Lawrence Steve Losee Larry Dale Steele http://www.pentecostaltheology.com/the-revelation-of-evangelical-theology
Stephen Howsare
True Christianity doesn’t change, if ones is changing it’s not Christianity it’s just a Christian like religion.
Varnel Watson
are you saying we are NO true Chrsitians Stephen Howsare
Stephen Howsare
Troy Day if you don’t see the truth of my statement then either you aren’t or you are deceived or both. We change for God, God doesn’t change for us.
JoAnne Harris
Stephen Howsare amen
Joshua Seabolt
Anytime you turn Christianity into a religion, you’ve already changed it
Charles Page
Progressive Christianity is always in a state of change to accommodate our weaknesses
Karl Ernst Von Buddenbrock
Just take a look. Time to reject the modern trends https://www.citizengo.org/en-eu/fm/180036-hollywood-wants-make-jesus-woman-help-us-stop-it?utm_source=fb&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=EN_ROW-2020-06-03-Local-FM-GM-180036-Hollywood+Habit.01_AA_Launch+ZA&utm_content=typage&tcid=72406021
Glory Kramlich
There is no “brand” of Christianity. There ARE progressives who believe they are enlightened somehow to bring new light into the teachings of our Lord as if our Lord forgot to do something?
Danie Van Der Westhuizen
We have to adapt. As science reveal more and more about His universe, and we learn more, we see our assumptions and understanding of certain aspects is not accurate. For instance, the 7 periods of time in which the Universe were Created. It’s not 7 days, as in 24hr cycles, but periods of time. Same word in the language used then. Translators thought days were more appropriate than periods of time. Yet we know now for a fact that the Earth is billions of years old, and dinosaurs most definitely did not fit in the Ark with the rest of the animals.
Varnel Watson
Danie Van Der Westhuizen ADAPT? to what – worldly morals and values in a corrupt and failing system of SIN? JESUS never adapted He LED culture – a left behind church will still be saying we need to adapt after the real church is grabbed away Steve Losee
A small virus shut down most churches in the world and they are so crippled they can hardly open again HOW is such a weak church open during the Tribulation and save soul? No cant do
(1) for starters: ONLY the ones who take the mark of the Beast (whoever that may be) will not be able to buy or sell. Anything! Food, gas, electricity, water – absolutely nothing.
(2) The pastors will NOT be able to receive salaries, insurance or anything included in their package. Remember, if the church cannot buy or sale, neither can the pastor receive a salary. And even if a salary is given, what would the pastor spend it on without the mark of the beast?
(3) Tithing system – those are most usually set up with a paper check or some sort of electronic banking like debiting or crediting. With the mark of the beast, the church will NOT be able to receive those moneys and even if it does, it cannot operate with them to buy or sell anything.
(4) What about church buildings – without the mark of the beast they will not be able to purchase any service – electricity, lights, internet, gas for church vans, insurance, special events, catering, food – no communion elements. Nothing at all. With no professional services available, a church building may last a few months, but will fall apart soon before the Tribulation is over… Just think about it
(5) Any other church related logistics or operations that depend on the purchase of gasoline and transportation. They way current church infrastructure in America is set up, how many would actually take the time to walk miles and miles to a church?
Matthew Ellis
You misspelled R E F O R M I N G……?
Varnel Watson
thank you professor for catching it NOW to the matter at hand that is NOT a matter of phone auto spell check
The anti-WOF posts got me to thinking…..By the way, this is not pro or anti WOF though I do adhere to some of those beliefs which by the way really are beliefs passed on to them from the previous generation of pentecostals….
1) Several have argued about using OT references and applying it to today such as Deut 28. If this is true, the greatest ruse is perpetrated each week under the guise of tithing.
2) The modern church meeting in buildings seems to more resemble the OT temple. Again, keep those tithes going to keep the temple…ahem…the church building and salaries going…..
3) Many here that post are Pentecostal. But, some say women are to keep silent in church while others play the culture card. Do we play the culture card with passages we don’t like?
4) What is the initial evidence of the baptism? Some here disagree.
5) I remember some posters a long time ago believed Charles Stanley and OSAS people will split wide open. Really? If this is such a great gift, why didn’t Billy Graham have it?
6) Then there’s oneness and trinitarians…..who’s got the right formula for baptizing? I know it’s not an issue here but….if you don’t say in Jesus name….still unsaved….
7) Billy Graham seemed to be open to the notion that other faiths were “of the same fold” as us…
8) there’s divorce. How many views do we have here on the issue? i remember reading posters and pastors saying that staying in the second marriage is perpetual adultery…
9) Some good Godly people that I know are embracing gay marriage and you can still be saved as a gay person
10) We are opposed to abortion at conception but finding solid references saying the spirit of man enters at conception seems elusive. Therefore, many in the church are pro-choice up to 4 weeks…
Matthew Ellis
It was a lighthearted joke bro but if you want the breakdown of each point…..
1)I’ll agree it’s out of context to use Deut.28 but did not the NT church under the encouragement of Paul and other leaders pool together resources and raise funds for the spread (not of their own ministries) but of the Gospel?
2)I’ve met in church buildings, living rooms, campsites, a high school auditorium, old warehouses and a shopping center storefront….The church is not the building….It is the people. The OT temple was a single use, single purpose structure. We’ve used churches for disaster relief, shelters, clothing and food distribution, dance classes, homesteading meetups, band practice space, recitals and concerts. Again the modern “building” is just that…a resource. The spirit dwells in people and is no longer only in the temple.
3)No….women can speak, as for elders and pastor ship ….based upon 1 Tim 2:12….personally I’m not sure….tbh still trying to figure out if that was meant specifically for the church at Ephesus or for the church as a whole. Paul mentions many women by name like Priscilla, Phoebe, Junia, Euodia….etc….many of which are mentioned as coworkers for the gospel or hosted churches at their homes…..so I honestly cannot say yet…..more research needed. (Probably getting me in trouble with my hardcore reformed bros)
4)A heart that once loved sin now hates it
5)wha? Lol…Never heard of this….must be a Pentecostal thing….
6)Baptism is not what saves you, it’s merely the outward expression and I’ll always baptize the way my model, Christ did in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit….btw oneness is not biblical and in serious theological error and has been considered heresy by the church for thousands of years. If you wish to refute this claim take the 1.5 hours and watch Mike Winger’s biblical explanation of the trinity on YouTube before doing so.
7)Well yes, mainline Protestantism whether they be cessationists as in the case of many reformed types (not myself) or continualists (myself included) I would consider brothers and sisters, as long as they don’t add heretical teachings that completely contradict scripture (oneness Pentecostals, speaking in tongues as only true evidence for salvation…See 1 Corinthians 12). The Gospel is enough, Jesus is enough, why muck it up with a bunch of other non-essentials?
8-Divorce is not part of God’s intention, yet it happens. Sin happens. God’s unmerited grace is sufficient but again, it is not His intention. I want to meet one person who has not struggled with committing adultery in their heart….It’s not what you do, it’s what Christ has done. That said I hate divorce, my God hates divorce.
9)See 4. Sin won’t last long if the Holy Spirit truly begins to work in someone’s heart. That being said, how many people do you know struggle with a sin, a stronghold that they must fight tooth and nail and may even fight for the rest of their life? It doesn’t mean they won’t struggle, it means there will be struggle because they now have the Holy Spirit to convict them. They will be transformed by the work of the Holy Spirit.
10) Nope abortion is murder pure and simple. The moment of conception is the moment of genetic distinction….it’s a person…. named and loved by God.
That better?
Varnel Watson
Matthew Ellis so you are an OT legalist now?
Matthew Ellis
Troy Day how so?
Varnel Watson
Matthew Ellis I am trying to understand what you said here
I’ll agree it’s out of context to use Deut.28 but did not the NT church under the encouragement of Paul and other leaders…
Matthew Ellis
Troy Day I mean the tithe verses so often preached from the OT as a rule that Christians need to follow aren’t necessarily what we should be preaching. There are examples in the NT church sharing funds with each other for missions and ministry. It has shifted from a lawful obligation to a heart condition of generosity.
RichardAnna Boyce
change name of church to Black lives matter to Jesus, and see how many new seekers turn up 🙂
Varnel Watson
RichardAnna Boyce you remain racist in your own AUzi ways I could say that the change toward free grace is one complete failure