Click to join the conversation with over 500,000 Pentecostal believers and scholars
Click to get our FREE MOBILE APP and stay connected
| PentecostalTheology.com
John Kissinger [01/07/2016 2:19 PM]
CrossTheology The historical Part I of “Biblical Perspectives on the Pentecostal Doctrine of Spirit Baptism” has 6 chapters. First 2 chapters are written by S. Burges as a historical observation of Holy Ghost baptisms in 1) the Eastern church 2) the Western (Catholic) church
ch. 3 by Dave Dorris deals with Irving
ch. 4 is contributed by J. Goff on Parham’s theology
ch. 5. Robeck on Seymour
and in ch. 6 McGee makes the turn toward the Biblical perspective from the book of Acts
In my opinion, Edward Irving is introduced quite abruptly in order to make a direct connection between him and Parham. Historically, the connection was not so clear – the least to say. We’ve examined the “missing link(s)” of tongue speakers and gift people with Charles Page in this group before. Some findings are placed in the “Diamonds in the Rough-n-Ready Pentecostal Series.” http://cupandcross.com/diamonds-in-the-rough-and-ready-pentecostal-series/
Also, in the early chapters Burgess examines Symeon the New Theologian (who also spoke in tongues), but omits to mention the Russian Molokans who were also known to speak in tongues in the 17-18c. and later were connected to the Azusa Str. Revival (celebrating its 110 anniversary this February). By the way, this book was talked about on the 2006 celebration in LA and it kind of proceeded from it to provide a full picture of the historical and theological development of the Holy Ghost baptism doctrine.
John Kissinger [01/07/2016 7:33 PM]
Link Hudson What exactly do you mean with this statement “That’s the problem with the theory. I do speak in tongues myself.” ? – If you really have spoken in tongues as initial evidence, would that prove the Biblical doctrine instead of creating a problem for you? Steve Pope Corey
John Conger [01/07/2016 7:47 PM]
If tongues is not the initial evidence then what was “seen”? And then how would you know when you were baptized in the spirit? A feeling ?
John Kissinger [01/07/2016 7:49 PM]
in the baptist church they get just a confirmation (unspoken)
Tim Renneberg [01/07/2016 7:49 PM]
^ good question
Derrick Harmon [01/07/2016 7:50 PM]
I didn’t know that Baptist had a Holy Ghost baptism experience. In the area in which I live the Missionary Baptists say “You get it all when you get saved.”
Ricky Grimsley [01/07/2016 7:50 PM]
In the church of nazarene they believe you can exercise any of the gifts as initial evidence.
Mark Walker
If you look at the five cases in the Bible you will notice a few things.
1) it was subsequent to repentance and usually water baptism but not always…once water baptism was offered after the baptism in the holy Spirit.
2) three times out of five tongues is listed as the initial outward evidence of receiving the Baptism. With the exception of Paul’s Baptism, no tongues are mentioned but he did later proclaim that he spoke in tongues ..the next case is the Samaritan’s no mention of tongues..but it was outwardly noticeable…so tongues could be implied
3)this initial outward manifestations and others are just that..they are initial and not the same as the charismata or gifts of the Spirit..meaning one may speak in tongues at the initial time but not receive those gifts later..the charismata are a function of the Holy Spirit but the initial signs are the calling card that this has taken place..
Now is it possible that someone may be baptized in the Holy Spirit and not speak In tongues…the answer is yes as in the case of a mute person who is not healed …if their mouth is not miraculously opened then some outward manifestation will occur..
So it is possible but it is not normative…
Yes all believers are regenerated at the time of repentance and faith ..the Holy Spirit revived their spirit and they come to know Jesus through the operation of the Spirit in a special and inward way…but this is not the baptism..
The baptism is a full immersion of your born again revived Spirit Into the Holy Spirit similar to when your physical body is baptized into water as a sign of the remission of your past sins…of course water baptism is not needed but is normative …and is important as physical outward sign…water baptism is the physical proto type for Spirit baptism..
So don’t worry about the tongues it will come on its own..Rather tarry and seek for your inward person to be immersed into the wonderful Holy Spirit..
Varnel Watson
Couple of points here Stan Wayne Link Hudson :
1) Samaria obviously had tongues — how else Simon saw that the Spirit was given
2) Sauls case is rarely cited though I’ve seen some claim he did spoke tongues per his later testimony
3) mute in the NT is most often attributed to demonization The Bible does not clarify IF the it was demonic influence or possession but when Jesus healed a mute it often says the demon left him (only male mute mentioned in the Bible BTW) William DeArteaga