If exegeted correctly, how would the hermeneutical interpretation change in Revelation 3:10? [closed]

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Please understand that this question requires the ability to critically consider the Greek text, translate word-for-word, understand what it says, and explain its contextual significance.

Rev 3:10 (BLB) – Because you have kept the word of My patient
endurance, I also will keep you out of the hour of the trial being
about to come upon the whole inhabited world, to try those dwelling
upon the earth.

[] Rev. 3:1 — TA hEPTA PNEUMATA TOU QEOU Ted Shoemaker tedsmath at yahoo.com
Sun Feb 1 18:28:54 EST 2004

[] METANOIW 2 Corinthians 7:9-10 [] Rev. 3:1 — TA hEPTA PNEUMATA TOU QEOU Hello,Revelation 3:1 reads, in part:TA hEPTA PNEUMATA TOU QEOU”the seven spirits of God”.I have seen more than one English-language Bible with a footnote that reads, “Or, the sevenfold Spirit of God.”It is easy to understand why, for theological purposes, one might want the footnoted translation. Are there any linguistic reasons for such a translation?Thank you very much!Ted ShoemakerMadison, Wisconsin, USA=====Ted Shoemaker “If homeschoolers can’t be socialized, they’ll just have to settle for being civilized.” (Robert Morrison)__________________________________Do you Yahoo!?Yahoo! SiteBuilder – Free web site building tool. Try it!http://webhosting.yahoo.com/ps/sb/

[] METANOIW 2 Corinthians 7:9-10[] Rev. 3:1 — TA hEPTA PNEUMATA TOU QEOU

[] Rev. 3:1 — TA hEPTA PNEUMATA TOU QEOU Polycarp66 at aol.com Polycarp66 at aol.com
Sun Feb 1 19:09:59 EST 2004

[] Rev. 3:1 — TA hEPTA PNEUMATA TOU QEOU [] IOUDAIOS and metonymy In a message dated 2/1/2004 6:29:38 PM Eastern Standard Time, tedsmath at yahoo.com writes:Revelation 3:1 reads, in part:TA hEPTA PNEUMATA TOU QEOU”the seven spirits of God”.I have seen more than one English-language Bible with a footnote that reads, “Or, the sevenfold Spirit of God.”It is easy to understand why, for theological purposes, one might want the footnoted translation. Are there any linguistic reasons for such a translation?Thank you very much!You might also notice that in Re 1.4 you will also find KAI APO TWN hEPTA PNEUMATWN hA ENWPION TOU QRONOU AUTOUSimilarly in Re 4.5hA EISIN TA hEPTA PNEUMATA TOU QEOUIn 5.6, however, the reading is uncertain since A happens to be the preferred text for the Apocalypse and lacks hEPTA though Sinaiticus and many others have it.I would consider “seven-fold” as simply theologically motivated. Sounds nice though.gfsomsel

[] Rev. 3:1 — TA hEPTA PNEUMATA TOU QEOU[] IOUDAIOS and metonymy

[] Rev. 3:1 — TA hEPTA PNEUMATA TOU QEOU Ted Shoemaker tedsmath at yahoo.com
Sun Feb 1 18:28:54 EST 2004

[] METANOIW 2 Corinthians 7:9-10 [] Rev. 3:1 — TA hEPTA PNEUMATA TOU QEOU Hello,Revelation 3:1 reads, in part:TA hEPTA PNEUMATA TOU QEOU”the seven spirits of God”.I have seen more than one English-language Bible with a footnote that reads, “Or, the sevenfold Spirit of God.”It is easy to understand why, for theological purposes, one might want the footnoted translation. Are there any linguistic reasons for such a translation?Thank you very much!Ted ShoemakerMadison, Wisconsin, USA=====Ted Shoemaker “If homeschoolers can’t be socialized, they’ll just have to settle for being civilized.” (Robert Morrison)__________________________________Do you Yahoo!?Yahoo! SiteBuilder – Free web site building tool. Try it!http://webhosting.yahoo.com/ps/sb/

[] METANOIW 2 Corinthians 7:9-10[] Rev. 3:1 — TA hEPTA PNEUMATA TOU QEOU

[] Rev. 3:1 — TA hEPTA PNEUMATA TOU QEOU Polycarp66 at aol.com Polycarp66 at aol.com
Sun Feb 1 19:09:59 EST 2004

[] Rev. 3:1 — TA hEPTA PNEUMATA TOU QEOU [] IOUDAIOS and metonymy In a message dated 2/1/2004 6:29:38 PM Eastern Standard Time, tedsmath at yahoo.com writes:Revelation 3:1 reads, in part:TA hEPTA PNEUMATA TOU QEOU”the seven spirits of God”.I have seen more than one English-language Bible with a footnote that reads, “Or, the sevenfold Spirit of God.”It is easy to understand why, for theological purposes, one might want the footnoted translation. Are there any linguistic reasons for such a translation?Thank you very much!You might also notice that in Re 1.4 you will also find KAI APO TWN hEPTA PNEUMATWN hA ENWPION TOU QRONOU AUTOUSimilarly in Re 4.5hA EISIN TA hEPTA PNEUMATA TOU QEOUIn 5.6, however, the reading is uncertain since A happens to be the preferred text for the Apocalypse and lacks hEPTA though Sinaiticus and many others have it.I would consider “seven-fold” as simply theologically motivated. Sounds nice though.gfsomsel

[] Rev. 3:1 — TA hEPTA PNEUMATA TOU QEOU[] IOUDAIOS and metonymy

[] Rev. 3:1 — TA hEPTA PNEUMATA TOU QEOU revelation info at revelationjesuschrist.com
Mon Feb 2 01:48:12 EST 2004

[] Acts 8.6 [] Fwd: FlashCord software – Announcement >From Ted ShoemakerRevelation 3:1 reads, in part:TA hEPTA PNEUMATA TOU QEOU”the seven spirits of God”.I have seen more than one English-language Bible with afootnote that reads, “Or, the sevenfold Spirit of God.”It is easy to understand why, for theological purposes, onemight want the footnoted translation. Are there anylinguistic reasons for such a translation?Hi TedThe linguistic reason, in my opinion, is that the Seven Spirits of God aretitle of God and a rhetorical device. I think each of the seven Spirits ofGod is a messenger (an angel) to each of the seven cities. In Rev 3:1,”The-one having the 7 Spirits” is “the one-who-conquers” (nikao), meaningpeople in the assemblies, although many would argue that it is Jesus(referring back to Rev 1:16).God is referred to as a Spirit sixteen times in Revelation. The term “SevenSpirits of God” appears four times in Revelation.01:04 Grace to-you and Peace from “The Being” and “The Was” and “The Coming”and from the Seven Spirits who-are in-view of his Throne.02:07 The-One having an-Ear, Let-him-hear what The Spirit is-saying to-theAssemblies.02:11 The-One having an-Ear, Let-him-hear what The Spirit is-saying to-theAssemblies.02:17 The-One having an-Ear, Let-him-hear what The Spirit is-saying to-theAssemblies.02:29 The-One having an-Ear, Let-him-hear what The Spirit is-saying to-theAssemblies.03:01 Says The-One having the Seven Spirits of God and the Seven Stars.03:06 The-One having an-Ear, Let-him-hear what The Spirit is-saying to-theAssemblies.03:13 The-One having an-Ear, Let-him-hear what The Spirit is-saying to-theAssemblies.03:22 The-One having an-Ear, Let-him-hear what The Spirit is-saying to-theAssemblies.04:05 and Seven Torches of Fire burning in-sight of-the Throne which are theSeven Spirits of God.05:06 a-Little-Lamb having-stood like having-been-slain, having Seven Hornsand Seven Eyes which are the Seven Spirits of God having-been-sent into allthe Earth.11:11 And after the Three Days and a-Half a-Spirit of-Life out of Godentered in them14:13 Yes! says The Spirit so-that they-will-rest out of theirCutting-Slaughter for their Works follow with them.19:10 For the Testimony of-Jesus is The Spirit of-Prophecy.22:06 And The Lord, The God of-the Spirits …22:17 And The Spirit and The Bride (The New Jerusalem) say Come!God is referred to as a Spirit many times in the Old Testament. The power ofGod to replicate himself as Seven Spirits or Eyes that “go forth into theEarth” as stated in Rev 5:6 (the last mention of the 7 Spirits) comes fromthe Book of Zechariah … “This is The Word of the LORD to Zerub’babel … Not by might, nor byPower, but by my Spirit, says the LORD of Hosts … These Seven are the Eyesof the LORD, which range through the whole earth” (Zech 4:6,10)Daniel Gleason

[] Acts 8.6[] Fwd: FlashCord software – Announcement

[] Rev. 3:1 — TA hEPTA PNEUMATA TOU QEOU revelation info at revelationjesuschrist.com
Mon Feb 2 01:48:12 EST 2004

[] Acts 8.6 [] Fwd: FlashCord software – Announcement >From Ted ShoemakerRevelation 3:1 reads, in part:TA hEPTA PNEUMATA TOU QEOU”the seven spirits of God”.I have seen more than one English-language Bible with afootnote that reads, “Or, the sevenfold Spirit of God.”It is easy to understand why, for theological purposes, onemight want the footnoted translation. Are there anylinguistic reasons for such a translation?Hi TedThe linguistic reason, in my opinion, is that the Seven Spirits of God aretitle of God and a rhetorical device. I think each of the seven Spirits ofGod is a messenger (an angel) to each of the seven cities. In Rev 3:1,”The-one having the 7 Spirits” is “the one-who-conquers” (nikao), meaningpeople in the assemblies, although many would argue that it is Jesus(referring back to Rev 1:16).God is referred to as a Spirit sixteen times in Revelation. The term “SevenSpirits of God” appears four times in Revelation.01:04 Grace to-you and Peace from “The Being” and “The Was” and “The Coming”and from the Seven Spirits who-are in-view of his Throne.02:07 The-One having an-Ear, Let-him-hear what The Spirit is-saying to-theAssemblies.02:11 The-One having an-Ear, Let-him-hear what The Spirit is-saying to-theAssemblies.02:17 The-One having an-Ear, Let-him-hear what The Spirit is-saying to-theAssemblies.02:29 The-One having an-Ear, Let-him-hear what The Spirit is-saying to-theAssemblies.03:01 Says The-One having the Seven Spirits of God and the Seven Stars.03:06 The-One having an-Ear, Let-him-hear what The Spirit is-saying to-theAssemblies.03:13 The-One having an-Ear, Let-him-hear what The Spirit is-saying to-theAssemblies.03:22 The-One having an-Ear, Let-him-hear what The Spirit is-saying to-theAssemblies.04:05 and Seven Torches of Fire burning in-sight of-the Throne which are theSeven Spirits of God.05:06 a-Little-Lamb having-stood like having-been-slain, having Seven Hornsand Seven Eyes which are the Seven Spirits of God having-been-sent into allthe Earth.11:11 And after the Three Days and a-Half a-Spirit of-Life out of Godentered in them14:13 Yes! says The Spirit so-that they-will-rest out of theirCutting-Slaughter for their Works follow with them.19:10 For the Testimony of-Jesus is The Spirit of-Prophecy.22:06 And The Lord, The God of-the Spirits …22:17 And The Spirit and The Bride (The New Jerusalem) say Come!God is referred to as a Spirit many times in the Old Testament. The power ofGod to replicate himself as Seven Spirits or Eyes that “go forth into theEarth” as stated in Rev 5:6 (the last mention of the 7 Spirits) comes fromthe Book of Zechariah … “This is The Word of the LORD to Zerub’babel … Not by might, nor byPower, but by my Spirit, says the LORD of Hosts … These Seven are the Eyesof the LORD, which range through the whole earth” (Zech 4:6,10)Daniel Gleason

[] Acts 8.6[] Fwd: FlashCord software – Announcement

[] Rev. 3:1 — TA hEPTA PNEUMATA TOU QEOU Rev. Doug Pickrel, Litt.D dpickrel at earthlink.net
Mon Feb 2 17:55:36 EST 2004

[] OT — intro to UBS 4 [] Josephus Against Apion 2:11 I would think, either “the seven spirits of God” or “the sevenfold spiritsof God” would be a correct translation. Isa 11:2 tells us what the sevenspirits of God are:The Seven Spirits of God: 1) “The Spirit of the Lord shall rest upon Him,2) the Spirit of wisdom and 3) understanding, the 4) Spirit of counsel and5)might, the 6) Spirit of knowledge and of the 7) fear of the Lord” Isa.11:2. “TA hEPTA PNEUMATA TOU QEOU.”DougRetired Pastor, SBC—– Original Message —– From: “revelation” <info at revelationjesuschrist.com>To: < at lists.ibiblio.org>Sent: Monday, February 02, 2004 12:48 AMSubject: [] Rev. 3:1 — TA hEPTA PNEUMATA TOU QEOU> >From Ted Shoemaker> Revelation 3:1 reads, in part:> TA hEPTA PNEUMATA TOU QEOU> “the seven spirits of God”.> I have seen more than one English-language Bible with a> footnote that reads, “Or, the sevenfold Spirit of God.”> It is easy to understand why, for theological purposes, one> might want the footnoted translation. Are there any> linguistic reasons for such a translation?> > Hi Ted> > The linguistic reason, in my opinion, is that the Seven Spirits of God are> title of God and a rhetorical device. I think each of the seven Spirits of> God is a messenger (an angel) to each of the seven cities. In Rev 3:1,> “The-one having the 7 Spirits” is “the one-who-conquers” (nikao), meaning> people in the assemblies, although many would argue that it is Jesus> (referring back to Rev 1:16).> > God is referred to as a Spirit sixteen times in Revelation. The term“Seven> Spirits of God” appears four times in Revelation.> > 01:04 Grace to-you and Peace from “The Being” and “The Was” and “TheComing”> and from the Seven Spirits who-are in-view of his Throne.> 02:07 The-One having an-Ear, Let-him-hear what The Spirit is-saying to-the> Assemblies.> 02:11 The-One having an-Ear, Let-him-hear what The Spirit is-saying to-the> Assemblies.> 02:17 The-One having an-Ear, Let-him-hear what The Spirit is-saying to-the> Assemblies.> 02:29 The-One having an-Ear, Let-him-hear what The Spirit is-saying to-the> Assemblies.> 03:01 Says The-One having the Seven Spirits of God and the Seven Stars.> 03:06 The-One having an-Ear, Let-him-hear what The Spirit is-saying to-the> Assemblies.> 03:13 The-One having an-Ear, Let-him-hear what The Spirit is-saying to-the> Assemblies.> 03:22 The-One having an-Ear, Let-him-hear what The Spirit is-saying to-the> Assemblies.> 04:05 and Seven Torches of Fire burning in-sight of-the Throne which arethe> Seven Spirits of God.> 05:06 a-Little-Lamb having-stood like having-been-slain, having SevenHorns> and Seven Eyes which are the Seven Spirits of God having-been-sent intoall> the Earth.> 11:11 And after the Three Days and a-Half a-Spirit of-Life out of God> entered in them> 14:13 Yes! says The Spirit so-that they-will-rest out of their> Cutting-Slaughter for their Works follow with them.> 19:10 For the Testimony of-Jesus is The Spirit of-Prophecy.> 22:06 And The Lord, The God of-the Spirits …> 22:17 And The Spirit and The Bride (The New Jerusalem) say Come!> God is referred to as a Spirit many times in the Old Testament. The powerof> God to replicate himself as Seven Spirits or Eyes that “go forth into the> Earth” as stated in Rev 5:6 (the last mention of the 7 Spirits) comes from> the Book of Zechariah …> > “This is The Word of the LORD to Zerub’babel … Not by might, nor by> Power, but by my Spirit, says the LORD of Hosts … These Seven are theEyes> of the LORD, which range through the whole earth” (Zech 4:6,10)> > Daniel Gleason> > > > —> home page: http://metalab.unc.edu/> mailing list> at lists.ibiblio.org> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/>

[] OT — intro to UBS 4[] Josephus Against Apion 2:11

[] Rev. 3:1 — TA hEPTA PNEUMATA TOU QEOU Rev. Doug Pickrel, Litt.D dpickrel at earthlink.net
Mon Feb 2 17:55:36 EST 2004

[] OT — intro to UBS 4 [] Josephus Against Apion 2:11 I would think, either “the seven spirits of God” or “the sevenfold spiritsof God” would be a correct translation. Isa 11:2 tells us what the sevenspirits of God are:The Seven Spirits of God: 1) “The Spirit of the Lord shall rest upon Him,2) the Spirit of wisdom and 3) understanding, the 4) Spirit of counsel and5)might, the 6) Spirit of knowledge and of the 7) fear of the Lord” Isa.11:2. “TA hEPTA PNEUMATA TOU QEOU.”DougRetired Pastor, SBC—– Original Message —– From: “revelation” <info at revelationjesuschrist.com>To: < at lists.ibiblio.org>Sent: Monday, February 02, 2004 12:48 AMSubject: [] Rev. 3:1 — TA hEPTA PNEUMATA TOU QEOU> >From Ted Shoemaker> Revelation 3:1 reads, in part:> TA hEPTA PNEUMATA TOU QEOU> “the seven spirits of God”.> I have seen more than one English-language Bible with a> footnote that reads, “Or, the sevenfold Spirit of God.”> It is easy to understand why, for theological purposes, one> might want the footnoted translation. Are there any> linguistic reasons for such a translation?> > Hi Ted> > The linguistic reason, in my opinion, is that the Seven Spirits of God are> title of God and a rhetorical device. I think each of the seven Spirits of> God is a messenger (an angel) to each of the seven cities. In Rev 3:1,> “The-one having the 7 Spirits” is “the one-who-conquers” (nikao), meaning> people in the assemblies, although many would argue that it is Jesus> (referring back to Rev 1:16).> > God is referred to as a Spirit sixteen times in Revelation. The term“Seven> Spirits of God” appears four times in Revelation.> > 01:04 Grace to-you and Peace from “The Being” and “The Was” and “TheComing”> and from the Seven Spirits who-are in-view of his Throne.> 02:07 The-One having an-Ear, Let-him-hear what The Spirit is-saying to-the> Assemblies.> 02:11 The-One having an-Ear, Let-him-hear what The Spirit is-saying to-the> Assemblies.> 02:17 The-One having an-Ear, Let-him-hear what The Spirit is-saying to-the> Assemblies.> 02:29 The-One having an-Ear, Let-him-hear what The Spirit is-saying to-the> Assemblies.> 03:01 Says The-One having the Seven Spirits of God and the Seven Stars.> 03:06 The-One having an-Ear, Let-him-hear what The Spirit is-saying to-the> Assemblies.> 03:13 The-One having an-Ear, Let-him-hear what The Spirit is-saying to-the> Assemblies.> 03:22 The-One having an-Ear, Let-him-hear what The Spirit is-saying to-the> Assemblies.> 04:05 and Seven Torches of Fire burning in-sight of-the Throne which arethe> Seven Spirits of God.> 05:06 a-Little-Lamb having-stood like having-been-slain, having SevenHorns> and Seven Eyes which are the Seven Spirits of God having-been-sent intoall> the Earth.> 11:11 And after the Three Days and a-Half a-Spirit of-Life out of God> entered in them> 14:13 Yes! says The Spirit so-that they-will-rest out of their> Cutting-Slaughter for their Works follow with them.> 19:10 For the Testimony of-Jesus is The Spirit of-Prophecy.> 22:06 And The Lord, The God of-the Spirits …> 22:17 And The Spirit and The Bride (The New Jerusalem) say Come!> God is referred to as a Spirit many times in the Old Testament. The powerof> God to replicate himself as Seven Spirits or Eyes that “go forth into the> Earth” as stated in Rev 5:6 (the last mention of the 7 Spirits) comes from> the Book of Zechariah …> > “This is The Word of the LORD to Zerub’babel … Not by might, nor by> Power, but by my Spirit, says the LORD of Hosts … These Seven are theEyes> of the LORD, which range through the whole earth” (Zech 4:6,10)> > Daniel Gleason> > > > —> home page: http://metalab.unc.edu/> mailing list> at lists.ibiblio.org> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/>

[] Rev 3:16 EMEW Jarek Romanowski romanjaro at poczta.onet.pl
Tue Jul 29 10:38:34 EDT 2008

[] differences [] Rev 3:16 EMEW Hello,In Rev 3:16 we have word: EMESAI from: EMEW. The standard tranlsation from BDAG/BGDA, LSJ, (in TWNT is absent) is: to vomit, throw up. In one of polish literal translation I have met also not eufemistic (colloquially or vulgar rather) meaning like: to puke. (?I?m going to puke you from my mouth?).Is this literal translation correct? Can EMEW mean: to puke?Jarek Romanowski

[] differences[] Rev 3:16 EMEW

[] Rev 3:16 EMEW Elizabeth Kline kline_dekooning at earthlink.net
Tue Jul 29 12:18:41 EDT 2008

[] Rev 3:16 EMEW [] Diagraming 1 TI 2:12. On Jul 29, 2008, at 7:38 AM, Jarek Romanowski wrote:> Hello,> > In Rev 3:16 we have word: EMESAI from: EMEW. The standard > tranlsation from BDAG/BGDA, LSJ, (in TWNT is absent) is: to vomit, > throw up.> > In one of polish literal translation I have met also not eufemistic > (colloquially or vulgar rather) meaning like: to puke. (?I?m going > to puke you from my mouth?).> > Is this literal translation correct? Can EMEW mean: to puke?> > Jarek Romanowski> RE. 3:16 hOUTWS hOTI CLIAROS EI KAI OUTE ZESTOS OUTE YUCROS, MELLW SE EMESAI EK TOU STOMATOS MOU.The short answer is yes. The greek word for spit is PTUW and EKTTUW to spit [out] in token of disgust, a figurative expression for rejection with disgust. In Aeschylus we find QEOPTUSTWi which looks like a similar expression in reference to divine displeasure and rejection but may be something more like english expletive g_ddamned.602 H GAR XUNEISBAS PLOION EUSEBHS ANHR603 NAUTHiSI QERMOIS KAI PANOURGIAi TINI604 OLWLEN ANDRWN SUN QEOPTUSTWi GENEI,Elizabeth Kline

[] Rev 3:16 EMEW[] Diagraming 1 TI 2:12.

Rev. 3:3a Eta + Upsilon diphthong > OIDA SOU TA ERGA hOTI OUTE YUCROS EI OUTE ZESTOS> OFELON YUCROS HS H ZESTOS…> > Because both ZESTOS and YUCROS were desirable states, I wonder> if we can understand both in a positive sense.> > ZESTOS being the hot water used for medicinal purposes.> In its initial state, it had a beneficial purpose. So> too with YUCROS. As cold (in its initial state),> it was a cool, refreshing drink…. having a beneficial> affect on those who partook.> > Can we understand YUCROS in a positive sense? I have always> heard YUCROS in the sense of: the Lord would rather you be> either on fire/hot for the Lord, or wanting nothing whatsoever> to do with him (cold). But it seems to me that since the Lord> desired these Laodiceans to be at either end of this spectrum,> that he was not contrasting positive and negative states, but> beneficial states, which existed at both ends.> > Therefore, the KLIAROS being the only “unnatural” or non-beneficial> state.I think your traditional understanding is more correct, although it isquestion what can happen to a cold person.BDAG is self-contradictory in its dealing with this problem.First, the entry on YUCROS has”2. fig. (trag., Hdt.+; Jos., Bell. 1, 357; 6, 16, C. Ap. 2, 255) cool,cold, i.e. without enthusiasm (Epict. 3, 15, 7; Lucian, Tim. 2 …) Rv3:15a, b, 16″This looks rather negative.For the verb YUCW it says:”Make cool or cold (Philo, Leg. All. 1, 5) pass. become or grow cold (Hdt.et al.; Philo, Cher. 88; Jos., Ant. 7, 343), go out, be extinguished of fireand flame (Pla., Critias 120b) fig. (cf. Jos., Bell. 5, 472 of hope)YUGHSETAI hH AGAPH Mt 24:12. M-M.*”It appears to be a negative connotation when the (first) love disappears ora person becomes cold in terms of love.Second, the entry for ZESTOS has:”hot; in Rv 3:15f the underlying idea is that water can be used when it ishot or cold, but when lukewarm it is unpalatable and will be spat out.”So, here they say that even what is cold is useful and therefore positive Iassume, where it was negative above.For the verb ZEW they say:”fig. of emotions, anger, love, eagerness to do good or evil (trag.; Pla.,Rep. 4 p. 440c; Charito 1, 5, 1; Plut., Mor. 1088f; 4 Macc 18:20; Philo,Mos. 2, 280) … of Apollos before he became a full-fledged member of theChristian community with burning zeal Ac 18:25… But the admonition toChristians to be TWi PNEUMATI ZEONTES Ro 12:11 directs them to maintain thespiritual glow.”Looking at the verbs, I get the clear impression that being burning withlove and in the Holy Spirit is good and desirable, supported by ZHLEUE in3:19. But being cold in terms of love is negative.Of course, cold water is nice to drink. But did they drink hot (boiling)water before the advent of tea leaves and coffee beans? How could it bepositive to drink something hot? I think the “spitting out of the mouth” isan idiom for rejection that does not allow us to transfer the “cooled love”idea to cold water, good for drinking.The lukewarm idea is further described in 3:17. The problem is that theythink they have everything (that is they think they are “hot”, burning withzeal”), but in fact they are from God’s perspective cold, naked, lackingeverything. The lukewarm idea seems to be a result of a mixture of hot andcold. They may appear hot on the outside but are cold on the inside. If onlythey realized that the fire in their hearts had been extinguished, it wouldbe possible to be re-ignited. Therefore, realizing one’s coldness is betterthan complacent lukewarmness. If I know I have grown cold, I have thepossibility for repenting and becoming full of burning zeal again (v. 19).Iver Larsen

Rev. 3:3aEta + Upsilon diphthong

Rev. 3:15 Eric S. Weiss eweiss at gte.net
Tue Apr 2 10:16:08 EST 2002

Mark 9:2 Textbooks for Principles of Exegesis Class If the geographic/water-source comments re: Colossae and Hieropolisvis-a-vis Laodicea that I referenced in my earlier response are in factcorrect, I would think that such an explanation would trump a detailedlexical examination of the meanings of “cold” and “hot.” Kind of theOccam’s Razor principle.> > OIDA SOU TA ERGA hOTI OUTE YUCROS EI OUTE ZESTOS> > OFELON YUCROS HS H ZESTOS…> >> > Because both ZESTOS and YUCROS were desirable states, I wonder> > if we can understand both in a positive sense.> >> > ZESTOS being the hot water used for medicinal purposes.> > In its initial state, it had a beneficial purpose. So> > too with YUCROS. As cold (in its initial state),> > it was a cool, refreshing drink…. having a beneficial> > affect on those who partook.> >> > Can we understand YUCROS in a positive sense? I have always> > heard YUCROS in the sense of: the Lord would rather you be> > either on fire/hot for the Lord, or wanting nothing whatsoever> > to do with him (cold). But it seems to me that since the Lord> > desired these Laodiceans to be at either end of this spectrum,> > that he was not contrasting positive and negative states, but> > beneficial states, which existed at both ends.> >> > Therefore, the KLIAROS being the only “unnatural” or non-beneficial> > state.> > I think your traditional understanding is more correct, although it is> question what can happen to a cold person.> BDAG is self-contradictory in its dealing with this problem.> First, the entry on YUCROS has> “2. fig. (trag., Hdt.+; Jos., Bell. 1, 357; 6, 16, C. Ap. 2, 255) cool,> cold, i.e. without enthusiasm (Epict. 3, 15, 7; Lucian, Tim. 2 …) Rv> 3:15a, b, 16″> This looks rather negative.> For the verb YUCW it says:> “Make cool or cold (Philo, Leg. All. 1, 5) pass. become or grow cold (Hdt.> et al.; Philo, Cher. 88; Jos., Ant. 7, 343), go out, be extinguished of fire> and flame (Pla., Critias 120b) fig. (cf. Jos., Bell. 5, 472 of hope)> YUGHSETAI hH AGAPH Mt 24:12. M-M.*”> > It appears to be a negative connotation when the (first) love disappears or> a person becomes cold in terms of love.> > Second, the entry for ZESTOS has:> “hot; in Rv 3:15f the underlying idea is that water can be used when it is> hot or cold, but when lukewarm it is unpalatable and will be spat out.”> So, here they say that even what is cold is useful and therefore positive I> assume, where it was negative above.> For the verb ZEW they say:> “fig. of emotions, anger, love, eagerness to do good or evil (trag.; Pla.,> Rep. 4 p. 440c; Charito 1, 5, 1; Plut., Mor. 1088f; 4 Macc 18:20; Philo,> Mos. 2, 280) … of Apollos before he became a full-fledged member of the> Christian community with burning zeal Ac 18:25… But the admonition to> Christians to be TWi PNEUMATI ZEONTES Ro 12:11 directs them to maintain the> spiritual glow.”> > Looking at the verbs, I get the clear impression that being burning with> love and in the Holy Spirit is good and desirable, supported by ZHLEUE in> 3:19. But being cold in terms of love is negative.> > Of course, cold water is nice to drink. But did they drink hot (boiling)> water before the advent of tea leaves and coffee beans? How could it be> positive to drink something hot? I think the “spitting out of the mouth” is> an idiom for rejection that does not allow us to transfer the “cooled love”> idea to cold water, good for drinking.> > The lukewarm idea is further described in 3:17. The problem is that they> think they have everything (that is they think they are “hot”, burning with> zeal”), but in fact they are from God’s perspective cold, naked, lacking> everything. The lukewarm idea seems to be a result of a mixture of hot and> cold. They may appear hot on the outside but are cold on the inside. If only> they realized that the fire in their hearts had been extinguished, it would> be possible to be re-ignited. Therefore, realizing one’s coldness is better> than complacent lukewarmness. If I know I have grown cold, I have the> possibility for repenting and becoming full of burning zeal again (v. 19).> > Iver Larsen

Mark 9:2Textbooks for Principles of Exegesis Class

Rev. 3:15 Polycarp66 at aol.com Polycarp66 at aol.com
Tue Apr 2 17:30:37 EST 2002

Participant Reference in John 18:15 Pronunciation and subjunctives In a message dated 4/2/2002 10:15:38 AM Eastern Standard Time, eweiss at gte.net writes:If the geographic/water-source comments re: Colossae and Hieropolisvis-a-vis Laodicea that I referenced in my earlier response are in factcorrect, I would think that such an explanation would trump a detailedlexical examination of the meanings of “cold” and “hot.” Kind of theOccam’s Razor principle._______________________I expect that Carl would rather that we not continue this onlist since it doesn’t directly deal with the Greek text (perhaps he will soon request that it be termnated). While there is still time, however, I would like to request that, if you can provide some source for the details you allege, I would like to be informed regarding them (offlist is recommended).gfsomsel