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How often do you SIN?
Varnel Watson
is this even positional? RichardAnna Boyce
Varnel Watson
is the question of the ages Charles Page
Charles Page
If you know when you last sinned you are probably willfully intentionally sinning, you make sinning a practice. That seems to be the greater problem.
Is there forgiveness for willful intentional sinning?
Ray E Horton
Charles Page All sin has already been forgiven. The sin that keeps on separate from God is unbelief. All sin is forgiven, but it is the repentant heart that chooses to receive that forgiveness. Otherwise those living in intentional sin will have miserable lives inthe here and now.
Charles Page
Otherwise??? elaborate
Philip Williams
However often you are sining, stop it!
Charles Page
Philip Williams can you stop unwilful sinning?
Charles Page
Adam sinned willfully – He could have refused and not sin!!
Philip Williams
Charles Page Jesus Christ can change you. Read 2 Peter. His divine power gives us everything we need to become saints.
Cursed be Reformed theology which will lead you to Hell. If you are truly a Pentecostal, you would already know that.
Charles Page
Philip Williams, I’m not Reformed however there are many Pentecostals who call themselves Reformed.
Philip Williams
Charles Page If you don’t believe in Holiness, but in the necessity of sinning, that’s an essential aspect of the Reformed view stemming from Martin Luther and John Calvin.
Charles Page
Philip Williams but not John MacArthur …he holds to lordship salvation
Charles Page
Philip Williams btw I believe in holiness
Philip Williams
Charles Page Lordship salvation isn’t the same as Holiness which they falsely claim is salvation by works.
Charles Page
Philip Williams I know that
Holiness is second work in salvation
Not achieved in new birth/ regeneration
Philip Williams
Charles Page the blood of Christ redeems us but to be holy we must die with him to this present world and rise with him as a new creation, sons of God who are led by his Spirit. Are you dead to this present world? Have you sold all to follow Christ?
Charles Page
Philip Williams yes I have, have you?
Philip Williams
Of course! How much did you sell to follow Jesus?
Varnel Watson
both of yall aint right
Ray E Horton
We all sin daily! Anything that we do without faith is sin. But, for anyone Born Again, sins are not imputed to us, our spirits having been made righteous, which is what God is looking at.
Varnel Watson
not all of us Melvin Harter
Jim Price
I have often pondered the oft used, we all sin daily, used mostly by baptists. But I think that is not accurate. Some go long periods of time without sinning while others commit sins by the minute. What about a child? What about a person under anesthesia for several days? Then I have met people who keep such a close watch on their thoughts and actions that I would be hesitant to say they sin daily.
Varnel Watson
I dont sin daily Thank you very much
RichardAnna Boyce
Troy Day Boasting is sin brother. Romans 7:18 NKJV –
For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh) nothing good dwells; for to will is present with me, but how to perform what is good I do not find.
Ray E Horton
We must remember that whatever is not of faith is sin. Entertaining wrong thoughts even momentarily can be sin.
Then there are sins of ommision. “Therefore, to him who knows to do good and does not do it, to him it is sin (James 4:7).
Good thing we don’t have to keep track of our sins under the New Covenant. In fact, we become more like what we focus on. Thus, we don’t focus on sin, but on Jesus, who took our sin. That way, by the overflow of God’s love, we overcome more sin accidentally and unawares than we ever did by focusing on sin and trying hard.
Eddie Burdick
How often do you listen to the Holy Spirit and convict you of sin and righteousness? And how often does 1st John 1 and 9 works in your life unto righteousness and how disciplined are you in your flesh and your spirit?
Varnel Watson
tell us – how often?
Eddie Burdick
Troy Day
Eddie Burdick
I don’t think there is a amount is there?
Eddie Burdick
There is only one s i n and that is blasphemy against the Holy Spirit but Jesus did not give a rough estimate Troy this is why he is a personal savior he works with you personally
Varnel Watson
Eddie Burdick I perceive you are not fully sanctified
Ray E Horton
Full sanctification has to do with our perfected spirit, and how God sees us.
But, none of us have arrived at the soulish level (mind, will, emotions), which is why we are told to “work out” our salvation, thus becoming more and more like who we have been made to be in our spirit.
Eddie Burdick
Yes in position in Him
Varnel Watson
Philip Williams Charles Page seems like you are both sinning right now if you ask me
Philip Williams
Troy Day ??
Varnel Watson
Philip Williams Its easy – all men sin by default and require penance
Philip Williams
Troy Day If they haven’t been saved from their sins. Have you heard the good news of Jesus?
Varnel Watson
Philip Williams have you heard about saved people still sinning ?
Philip Williams
That’s an oxymoron. Saved means saved from sins.
RichardAnna Boyce
believers have been saved from the PENALTY of all sins; and are being continuously saved from the POWER of sin. We will finally be saved from the PRESENCE of sin.
Varnel Watson
Philip Williams I perceive you are not fully sanctified
Philip Williams
Troy Day
Give me your list of the fully sanctified on your list.
Varnel Watson
Philip Williams I can start with Melvin Harter
Philip Williams
Troy Day I want to know more about him. Tell me.
And is Troy Day on your list?
RichardAnna Boyce
Troy Day perceptions and seeming judgements are sins brother; especially when you boast you can live a day without sinning; it is then God allows devil to be His sheep dog to drive you back into His sheep pen of abiding in Jesus.
Varnel Watson
NO Philip Williams it is NOT an oxymoron but makes some look like a moron – do you not believe that saved people sin and fall off grace? In Pentecostalism it is called backsliding – if you are a baptist catholic who believe in eternal security that explains a lot of what you’ve been saying lately about the elect being left behind
Philip Williams
Troy Day some time I’ll explain the Calvinism roots of the very idea that those awaiting salvation are already saved though some one time conversion.
Varnel Watson
Philip Williams explain it to Tyler Lee Price
Tyler Lee Price
Troy Day dude, those who are in Christ are secure in their salvation. The only time their salvation can be broken is by apostasy. The Christian life is a constant battle between the flesh and the Spirit and sometimes, the flesh wins. Those who are in Christ and have not gone apostate, however, are secure in their salvation. “BACKSLIDING” does not tear someone’s salvation away from them.
Scripture makes that clear.
Varnel Watson
Tyler Lee Price dude? How is anything of what you are saying Pentecostal at all? Are you a calvinist
Tyler Lee Price
Troy Day you’re grossly misrepresenting Calvin.
I’m not a Calvinist, I’m an open theist, but I will argue with you that backsliding does not tear someone’s salvation from them. Apostasy, on the other hand, does.
Again, I ask you the same question. How is any of what you are saying Pentecostal?
Varnel Watson
Tyler Lee Price No I am NOT grossly misrepresenting Calvin. I simply asked if YOU are a calvinist
Tyler Lee Price
Troy Day have you read the institutes carefully? Because our conversation from last night proves to me that you haven’t.
Varnel Watson
Tyler Lee Price SO because I asked you are question you cant answer I am the bad guy 🙂
Philip Williams
Tyler Lee Price “Backsliding is apostasy.”
Varnel Watson
Tyler Lee Price To answer your question I read most of Calvins works in the original latin perhaps before you were born
Tyler Lee Price
Troy Day you’re building a straw man argument.
I’m saying that you are either misinformed as to the original ideas of Calvin or you are informed, but misrepresenting and building a straw man argument to make a point.
Varnel Watson
Tyler Lee Price I am building NO argument – I simply asked a question you cant answer That’s all
Tyler Lee Price
Troy Day I answered the question. I said that those things don’t define Pentecostalism, therefore what I said is neither Pentecostal nor non-Pentecostal.
Varnel Watson
Tyler Lee Price which proves my point that what you saying is not even Pentecostal – what exactly is your purpose in this Pentecostal theology group?
Tyler Lee Price
Troy Day what I said is neither Pentecostal nor non-Pentecostal, as those things I discussed do not define Pentecostalism.
My purpose in this group, as an educated Pentecostal, is to clearly and precisely define and articulate a Pentecostal theology of both practice and mission, as well as a pentecostal pneumatology.
Varnel Watson
Tyler Lee Price what Philip Williams asked you above
Tyler Lee Price
Troy Day he didn’t ask me anything.
Tyler Lee Price
Troy Day
“let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, with our hearts sprinkled clean from an evil conscience and our bodies washed with pure water. Let us hold fast the confession of our hope without wavering, for he who promised is faithful. And let us consider how to stir up one another to love and good works, not neglecting to meet together, as is the habit of some, but encouraging one another, and all the more as you see the Day drawing near. For if we go on sinning /deliberately/ after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins,”
Hebrews 10:22-26 ESV
“for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, and are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, whom God put forward as a propitiation by his blood, to be received by faith. This was to show God’s righteousness, because in his divine forbearance he had passed over former sins.
For we hold that one is justified by faith apart from works of the law.”
Romans 3:23-25, 28
“because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved. For the Scripture says, “Everyone who believes in him will not be put to shame.” For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of all, bestowing his riches on all who call on him. For “everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.””
Romans 10:9-13 ESV
Justification is by grace and faith alone, sanctification, however, is grace, faith, and works-based.
Philip Williams
Tyler Lee Price
“My purpose in this group, as an educated Pentecostal”
Tell us your age and about your education.
Tyler Lee Price
Philip Williams
21, I’m currently in my undergrad, but I’ve done a ton of research and writing at the collegiate level since I was 18 and became a Christian.
Philip Williams
Tyler Lee Price
Nice. Where are you studying?
Tyler Lee Price
Philip Williams Lee University. I’m part of the McNair Scholar’s program there as well. I plan on going to Duke Divinity or Princeton for my Th.M and Ph.D.
Philip Williams
Tyler Lee Price that will be good for communicating the gospel. But you will have to learn to become a Christian directly from Jesus, our only teacher.
That will cost you more than your scholarly education. It will cost you everything. But it’s well worth the investment.
Tyler Lee Price
The Spirit talks, I listen.
Varnel Watson
In my day going to liberal Princeton was a sin As for Duke I;ve only used their MSS library onsite
Philip Williams
What our theological traditions say means absolutely nothing, What is generally believed today means nothing. The only thing that counts is what Jesus and the Scriptures say.
Varnel Watson
I bet your Pentecostal grandma do not believe what you just said as related to Pentecostalism
Philip Williams
Troy Day what grandma said means nothing.
Varnel Watson
Philip Williams Scripture says it does 2 Tim 1:5
Philip Williams
Troy Day In Philippians, Paul does not assume that he himself has yet taken hold of salvation.
Varnel Watson
Philip Williams I cant argue with that either
Philip Williams
Salvation is yet to come:
Hebrews 9:28 so Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many; and he will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for him.
Varnel Watson
the point you just made with the youngin dude feller hit the nail on the hed
Ray E Horton
I see salvation as three-fold. It is complete in our spirit man, where we are perfected already with the righteousness of God in Christ. That is how God sees us.
Secondly, our salvation is in progress at the soulish level (mind, will,emotions), as we gradually grow, becoming more and more like our spirit man as we see who we now are in the mirror of God’s Word and are gradually transformed from glory to glory. It’s a lifetime process.
Thirdly, our salvation will be completed when we graduate from this life and receive our glorified bodies, of which healing is a down payment and a foreshadowing.
What counts for eternity a believer already has, a full saved spirit. What counts for daily living and growth in holy, Christ-like living is salvation in progress, as we work it out.
Philip Williams
Paul uses the example of those who were delivered from Egypt yet who rebelled and perished in the wilderness as an example for believers of the New Covenant.
Varnel Watson
I;d like to think we’ve crossed Jordan by now
Philip Williams
“crossing the Jordan” might happen when you die. Or else when Jesus returns.
Varnel Watson
Philip Williams not what EARLY Pentecostals believed preached and lived for
Philip Williams
Troy Day Early Pentecostals depended on and lived for the Lord. Unlike so many Proud Pentecostals (PP) today, they were open to new revelation and more understanding. That’s why they became Pentecostal. Early Pentecostals had been Methodist, Holiness, Catholics, Quakers, Atheists, and a few even Baptist.
Varnel Watson
Philip Williams you now sound like a late Pentecostal
Philip Williams
Troy Day have you read the bios of early Pentecostals?
Varnel Watson
I have but have you? Larry Martin has a great series on this
Philip Williams
The idea that one is now “saved” does come from Calvinism. It developed from the New England Puritans who examined coverts as to whether they were called as being among the elect and therefore could own the covenant and take communion. According to Calvinist theology, if they were among the elect they were indeed saved. The revivalist of the Great Awakening took a born again experience as assurance that one was among the elect. Hence, the experience came to be reckoned as assurance of salvation.
Those Puritans who started baptizing those who had such an experience became known as Separatist Baptist. They came to North Carolina where the great Baptist revival took place. “Getting saved” entered the vocabulary.
Philip Williams
Read Ezekiel 18 if you think that one can assume they are saved.
Philip Williams
The vast majority aren’t going to be saved. Narrow is the way that leads to salvation and few find it.
Varnel Watson
hence the RAPTURE
Philip Williams
Troy Day non sequitor
Varnel Watson
you probably meant non sequitur
Philip Williams
Troy Day you my spell check
Varnel Watson
Philip Williams just the latin teacher in me
RichardAnna Boyce
Were saved from penalty of sin (justification); are being saved from power of sin (sanctification); will be saved from presence of sin (glorification).
Philip Williams
RichardAnna Boyce cursed be your manmade theology. You will be held accountable in the judgement.
Philip Williams
Ray E Horton, thank you for the rebuke. The comment is literally true. I was reading him in the light as he himself reads this, claiming that everyone who ever claimed Jesus will be saved no matter how filthy they live and no matter how much they may later deny or curse Jesus.
Varnel Watson
Philip Williams how do you unsaved Christians but claim Christians are not yet saved?
Philip Williams
Troy Day Jesus came to save the lost.
Varnel Watson
Philip Williams going to Sunday school level?
Philip Williams
Troy Day to git you to understand, I got to git on your level.
Varnel Watson
Philip Williams you contradict yourself
Jim Price
When you say the vast majority won’t be saved leads me to the debate on abortion and to Solomon’s thought that it better not to be born.
Philip Williams
Jim Price What is your thoughts concerning Noah’s Food?
Philip Williams
Jim Price
“For it is time for judgment to begin with God’s household; and if it begins with us, what will the outcome be for those who do not obey the gospel of God? And, “If it is hard for the righteous to be saved, what will become of the ungodly and the sinner?””
1 Peter 4:17-18
Jim Price
Did you mean flood? If so it’s Monday and my brains a little foggy so I’ll pass on this.
Philip Williams
Jim Price maybe you are more righteous than Christ who died on the cross to save us from our sins?
Or maybe you are wiser than God, not supposing that sin is such a problem in creation and thus doesn’t even need atonement?
Jim Price
Don’t understand your attitude; no one who knows me personally comes across that way to me. Don’t know what I’ve written that would make you think that I am proud and pompous.
Philip Williams
“After being made alive, he went and made proclamation to the imprisoned spirits— to those who were disobedient long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved through water,” 1 Peter 3:19-20
Varnel Watson
as often as you will OR as often as God wills? Lance Snider Chris Baudean
Chris Baudean
Well just tagging me in this I am assuming is a sin because you are infering something about me obviously…. However, many of you believe that you have free will. So don’t worry about it God can’t do anything against your will because that would mess up your free will and ability to do as you please without any consequences. Tell me did God give Adam free willl or a CHOICE with consequences involved?
Varnel Watson
Chris Baudean so did you sin today or not
Chris Baudean
Troy Day I probably did and don’t know it how about you did you get to enjoy a little sin for a season?
Chris Baudean
Troy Day Still waiting for an answer! LOL
Mike Partyka
15 I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do.(A) 16 And if I do what I do not want to do, I agree that the law is good.(B) 17 As it is, it is no longer I myself who do it, but it is sin living in me.(C) 18 For I know that good itself does not dwell in me, that is, in my sinful nature.[a](D) For I have the desire to do what is good, but I cannot carry it out. 19 For I do not do the good I want to do, but the evil I do not want to do—this I keep on doing.(E) 20 Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it
Varnel Watson
you are no man with will as it seems
Isara Mo
But he who is uncertain [about eating a particular thing] is condemned if he eats, because he is not acting from faith. Whatever is not from faith is sin [whatever is done with doubt is sinful].
Romans 14:23 AMP
Varnel Watson
Eve was pretty certain about eating the fruit
Isara Mo
Troy Day
She was not. The moment she heard the VOICE of Satan and the WORDS of Satan she lost her original mind..
When the will of the devil overshadowed her will her decisions weren’t CERTAIN..
We are only certain of our a ctiins when we have the VOICE and the WORD of God..
Varnel Watson
Isara Mo ppl like to social drink and do CBD before the rapture – then they wonder
Isara Mo
Troy Day
A man is born alone. He meets Jesus alone. He will be raptured alone (not as PT group) if he ever makes it.
Let ppl like what they like but each of us should like what we individually like..
Isara Mo
WHATEVER is not of FAITH is sin..
Can one avoid this?
Doyle Rogers
Jesus said …Mat_5:8 Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God…We strive to please God, …..The old Testament prophet wrote ….Jer_17:9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?………………… The Apostle Paul wrote… Rom_7:24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?…. ..Rom 7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin. …………
Isara Mo
Doyle Rogers
Amen
Alex D. Smith
Whenever I am not able to love God the way He deserves.
RichardAnna Boyce
the more i am closer to Jesus the more i am aware of my daily sin, as there is no good thing dwelling in my flesh. But my spirit does not sin.
Varnel Watson
you need to repent about this
RichardAnna Boyce
Troy Day of course as repentance is compulsory for a believer to earn a better Christian life now and rewards in the Millennium.
Varnel Watson
RichardAnna Boyce sounds like heresy
Joe Absher
Mr Day maybe you are being polite when you say “sounds like heresy” You have strong opinions on just about everything but not this?
Let me state plainly it is false comforts and fraudulent sanctification. It is gross error to say a man that commits blasphemy and all manner of evil and yet not sin with “his spirit”
Please let me know your decision upon examination of this false gospel, and devilish doctrine.
Joe Absher
Mr Day maybe you are being polite when you say “sounds like heresy” You have strong opinions on just about everything but not this?
Let me state plainly it is false comforts and fraudulent sanctification. It is gross error to say a man that commits blasphemy and all manner of evil and yet not sin with “his spirit”
Please let me know your decision upon examination of this false gospel, and devilish doctrine.
Troy Day
Joe Absher it is what it is and cant be nothing else
Ray E Horton
Joe Absher What you are saying is false and contrary to the Gospel. In your spirit, when you were born again, you became a totally brand-new creation, created in righteousness and true holiness (Eph. 4:24). First John 4:17 says that you are identical to Jesus in your spirit: “As he is, so are we in this world.” Our spirits are sealed by the Holy Spirit when Born Again (2 Cor. 1:22, Eph. 1:13, Eph. 4:30). So, how is it that you think your spirit can sin. It’s your spirit that changed, not your soul or your body. It is in knowing that my spirit is transformed that motivates me out of love and appreciation to avoid sin in my soul and body.
Joe Absher
You are not God
RichardAnna Boyce
Joe Absher Gal 2:19-21 What actually took place is this: I tried keeping rules and working my head off to please God, and it didn’t work. So I quit being a “law man” so that I could be God’s man. Christ’s life showed me how, and enabled me to do it. I identified myself completely with him. Indeed, I have been crucified with Christ. My ego is no longer central. It is no longer important that I appear righteous before you or have your good opinion, and I am no longer driven to impress God. Christ lives in me. The life you see me living is not “mine,” but it is lived by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me. I am not going to go back on that.
Is it not clear to you that to go back to that old rule-keeping, peer-pleasing religion would be an abandonment of everything personal and free in my relationship with God? I refuse to do that, to repudiate God’s grace. If a living relationship with God could come by rule-keeping, then Christ died unnecessarily.
Joe Absher
I’m happy for you . we are saved by grace through faith that is in Jesus Christ .
.but your assertion that you do not sin with “your spirit” though you concede that you do in fact knowingly commit sin is gross error and a lie .
RichardAnna Boyce
Joe Absher 1 John 3:9 The person who has been born of God has God’s seed within him and so is not capable of sin (he cannot sin) by virtue of his birth from God.
Naturally many have wondered how this claim can be squared with reality since Christians do sin, as even John acknowledges (1:8). But the answer lies near at hand. In 1:8 John warns, “If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves.” But in 3:9 he says, “whoever has been born of God does not sin.” As total persons, believers do sin and can never claim to be free of it, but their “inward self” that is regenerated does not sin.
In describing his struggle with sin Paul notes that two diverse impulses are at work. So he can say, “For I delight in the law of God according to the inward man. But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members” (Rom 7:22-23; italics added). Previous to this he had concluded, “Now if I do what I will not to do, it is no longer I that do it, but sin that dwells in me” (v 20; italics added). His conclusion is simple; “So then, with the mind I myself serve the law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin” (v 24). At the core of his being (in his inward man) he does not and cannot sin. The inward man (the “regenerate self”) is absolutely impervious to sin, fully enslaved to God’s will. If sin occurs, it is not the inward man who performs it.
Sin does exist in the Christian, but it is foreign and extraneous to his regenerated inner self, where Christ dwells in perfect holiness. Since Christ is eternal life (1 John 5:20), the one who possesses that life cannot sin because he is born of God. The divine seed (sperma) of that life remains (menœ, “abides,” “stays”) in him who is born again, making sin an impossibility at the level of his regenerate inward self.
This understanding of 3:9 builds naturally on 2:29-3:8. Absolute contrasts are a familiar part of Johannine discourse. Most prominent among these are the light/darkness and the death/life antitheses. But to these must be added the sin/righteousness polarity that has appeared prominently in this unit.
For a number of decades the opinion was popular that the key to understanding 3:9 is in the present tense of the verb to sin. In this view the verse should read, “Whoever has been born of God does not continue to sin; for His seed remains in him; and he cannot continue to sin, because he has been born of God.” (The NIV has a similar rendering.) In this view prolonged continuation in sin does not occur if one is born again.
But this raises more questions than it answers. Do not all Christians continue to sin until the day of their death? Furthermore do not all Christians sin daily? How can anyone claim not to be continuing to sin? Does the born again person come to some point at which he ceases to sin? This proposed translation solves nothing.
The regenerate person can express himself only through righteousness (cf. 2:29) and can never express himself through sin, because he cannot sin.
Kyle Williams
How often do YOU sin?
Varnel Watson
sounds like you just sinned somehow
Kyle Williams
Troy Day sounds like your claiming to be without sin and you know what that makes you
Varnel Watson
Kyle Williams not sure where you or any one could be getting such claims BUT you should read John Wesley on ENTIRE SANCTIFICATION http://www.pentecostaltheology.com/john-wesley-on-entire-sanctification-our-main-doctrines-are-three-repentance-faith-and-holiness/
Kyle Williams
Growing in Grace…yes…perfection this side of heaven…Heresy with a capital H!
Varnel Watson
Kyle Williams you must not be Pentecostal then Pls read Wesley for starters Hence Wesleyan Pentecostal theology
Kyle Williams
Troy Day I no longer consider myself Pentecostal but very much a student of theology and a servant of the Lord Jesus.
Varnel Watson
Kyle Williams well lets just leave it there then
Kyle Williams
Behold the Infallible Pentecostal Pope….Forgive me for I have sinned
Varnel Watson
sounds like you know not Pentecost
Kyle Williams
I’m afraid I understand it too well
Chris Baudean
Kyle Williams me too!
Jack Delmar
ciounting right now??
Kyle Williams
Jack Delmar well…it sure sounds like our brother here is asking for confession and seemingly denying that he is guilty of any sin…this comment was made in jest,however this post is concerning
Harry Jones
This is a strange question ?.
Varnel Watson
just caring for spiritual growth and health
Harry Jones
Troy Day It’s still is a very strange question ask. A more normal question to ask would be, ” Who believes in being doers of the word and not hearers only?” Which would lead to a reinforcement of good works. The other question that you asked would look at the bad things people do and reinforce a bad feeling in people.
Harry Jones
Troy Day What upset me with the holiness church was all they talked about was SIN. I asked him why don’t you talk about love or about the mercy of God. But he said that
if he didn’t talk about sin all the time that the others would think he had backslide.
Varnel Watson
Harry Jones you are right A lot of people get upset when their personal sins get exposed And the BIBLE has a prophetic ways of doing that Many churches have stopped preaching about sin and hell anymore Watered down GOSPEL
RichardAnna Boyce
1 Corinthians 3. Paul is pointing out the Corinthians’ immaturity, even carnality:
And I, brethren, could not speak to you as to spiritual people but as to carnal, as to babes in Christ. I fed you with milk and not with solid food; for until now you were not able to receive it, and even now you are still not able; for you are still carnal (vv 1-3a).
Did Paul expect the Corinthians to still be carnal? No. Did he expect them to be spiritual? Yes.
So there is progress in the Christian life, and the Corinthians were not making it. They were still babies. They were not spiritual people, but fleshly ones. Carnal. And they shouldn’t have been. They should have grown and progressed.
Paul goes on to say that one of the signs of carnality is divisions. Apparently, the Corinthians were fracturing into groups—some claimed to follow Apollos; others, Paul; others, Peter (vv 3-4). Paul counters this attitude by showing that all three teachers were building up the church of God. The Apostle then wrote this important passage about eternal rewards:
For no other foundation can anyone lay than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. Now if anyone builds on this foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw, each one’s work will become clear; for the Day will declare it, because it will be revealed by fire; and the fire will test each one’s work, of what sort it is. If anyone’s work which he has built on it endures, he will receive a reward. If anyone’s work is burned, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire (1 Cor 3:11-15).
Again, I think this passage shows that the “no growth” view of sanctification is wrong. The doctrine of eternal rewards shows you can live for Christ faithfully or unfaithfully. Your eternal salvation is settled, but your eternal rewards are not. As Paul says, some people will be more rewarded than others for how they lived and built upon Christ. Some will receive a reward, while others “will suffer loss.”
We now come to 1 Cor 3:18-23, does this passage teach there is no progress in sanctification?
RichardAnna Boyce
1 Corinthians 3:18-23 God places high value on His local church; therefore Paul cautions his readers not to deceive themselves by thinking of themselves as wise in this age. Each one needs to become a fool that he may become wise. Therefore no believer should boast in men because all things are yours. The Corinthian believers hold great resources in Christ, and they are Christ’s—they belong to Christ—and Christ is God’s. This speaks of what Christ has done for mankind rather than His essential nature of being equal to God. He took a lowly place, which resulted in the Crucifixion. Therefore foolish boasting is not an option for the believer who wants to be mature in Christ.
Varnel Watson
RichardAnna Boyce it is well known by ANYone who has studied theology that Paul is not agreeing with the Corinthian spiritual fall in 1 Cor 3-5 He is exposing it proposing the BETTER way of entire sanctification that is not positional or progressive but instant. Yes you have free will to be like the Corinthians or like Paul
RichardAnna Boyce
The Scriptures clearly and repeatedly show that the believer has an active role to play in progressive sanctification. A passage like Phil 2:12-13 brings this out well:
Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation1 with fear and trembling; for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure.
The following are a listing of but a few of the many texts which call upon the believer to take an active part in his Christian experience:
John 14:15: If you love Me, keep My commandments.
1 Cor 9:27: But I discipline my body and bring it into subjection, lest, when I have preached to others, I myself should become disqualified.2
Heb 13:1-5: Let brotherly love continue. Do not forget to entertain strangers Remember the prisoners Fornicators and adulterers God will judge. Let your conduct be without covetousness; be content with such things as you have.
James 1:22: But be doers of the word, and not hearers only…
1 Pet 1:16: Because it is written, “Be holy, for I am holy.”
1 John 2:28: And now, little children, abide in Him, that when He appears, we may have confidence and not be ashamed before Him at His coming.
The idea that believers have no role to play in their own sanctification is not only unbiblical. It is also unhealthy. It certainly leads people to doubt whether they are saved since according to this view if you fail to persevere you prove that you were never saved in the first place. That, in turn, leads to despair. To know that hell is real and yet to lack certainty that we are eternally secure is terrible. Some respond to the despair by doing what their view says they can’t: trying harder. Others respond to it by giving up. After all, if it’s all up to God, what difference does it make what I do?
Man has a role to play in progressive sanctification. It is not an independent role. Apart from God taking the initiative and giving us “all things that pertain to life and godliness” (2 Pet 1:3), no growth would take place. However, since God has done this, believers can respond. It is to that response that we now turn our attention.
Louise Cummings
The Bible says all has sin and come short of God. But when we get forgiveness. God doesn’t mean for us to keep on sinning every day. I know Brother Troy Day brought out some good Scriptures. I can’t remember just what it all was saying. But your question is how often do I sin.
David A Dawson
Everyday from stealing credit cards. I made a bad decision not to pay them and that is stealing.
Varnel Watson
some do more often than others RichardAnna Boyce
Alan Smith
Daily
AND if anyone answers differently, well… that’s their sin for that day.
Ray E Horton
While we all sin daily through commission or omission, that is at the soulish and body level. Our spirits are perfected and sin-free and instantly and completely sanctified when we are born again. Thus, we are instructed to follow after the spirit rather than the flesh, and why we are told to work out our salvation and to put the flesh under.
Anonymous
Always all the time and I am seated with Christ in the heavenly realms..Troy
Anonymous
Q. How often do you sin?
A. For I am not aware of anything against myself, but I am not thereby acquitted. It is the Lord who judges me. (1 Corinthians 4:4) Like Paul, “I exercise myself to always have a conscience void of offense toward God and men.'” (Acts 24:16)
Yet, I can not say, “I have no sin,” nor can I say, “I have not sinned.” To say either of these untruths would be self-deception and charging the very God of truth with lying. (1John 1:8&10)
Sin no longer has dominion over me because I am not under the law but under grace. (Romans 6:14) God’s grace teaches my heart how to live righteous, sober, and godly in this present world. (Titus 2:11) The God of peace sanctifies me entirely and my whole spirit, soul, and body are preserved blameless to the coming of the Lord. (1 Thessalonians 5:23)
Honestly, I don’t know how often I sin. There are sins of the flesh and sins of the spirit. (2 Corinthians 7:1) There are sins of omission, when I fail to do as I should, and there are sins of commission, when I do what I ought not. (Romans 7:15) I do not sin willingly, or presumptuously. (Hebrews 10:26, Psalm 19:13) The moment I recognize sin in my life I run to God in his rich mercy, and the blood of Jesus cleanses me from all sin. (1 John 1:7&9) I also confess my sins to my brethren when the Holy Spirit makes me sensible of them, thus obeying the scriptural command, confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another that you may be healed. (James 5:16)
Anonymous
Michael Chauncey YES
Anonymous
ENTIRE sanctification is NOT a zap Link Hudson instant VS entire
Anonymous
Troy Day Often the word ‘sanctified’ has been used in the Holiness movement and the Pentecostal wing of the Holiness movement to refer to an instant step, a one time experience after salvation that is treated as a step/experience all must experience.
That is different from being sanctified body, soul, and spirit. I believe in sanctification. Just the idea that it is normal that every believer have a one-time experience after salvation….I don’t see any scripture to support that idea.
Anonymous
Link Hudson read Arrington, Land, Gausse all foundational to your cog-dof as Neil Steven Lawrence has established. All interpret NT sanctification as ENTIRE (of course you need to know some basic theology ) Even Oscar Valdez should agree w/dispensation of sanctification
Anonymous
Troy Day I am aware that the COG was a Holiness church before Azusa Street.
Anonymous
Link Hudson they still are per their dof for members
Anonymous
Troy Day The wording of the DOF does not require belief in ‘zap’ sanctification.
Anonymous
Link Hudson well Alan Smith Neil Steven Lawrence Melvin Harter can tell you in detail but you have dof, practical commitments, general teaching, SS lessons, cog theologians ALL saying the same thing namely that COG believes in ENTIRE sanctification – NOT the zap thing which seems to be your own created thing no one really cares about; SO this cog guy a few years back was telling everyone cog dont worry about ENTIRE sanctification and dont believe it or whatever. At that gen. assembly they voted on affirmation of their doctrinal adherence. Soon after counted him as non – adherent and pulled his license (fired him on the spot) so it seems to be still very much grounds for dismissal for you
Anonymous
Troy Day I don’t recall the previous conversation focusing on entire sanctification. Namany early Pentecostal believed in three distinct experiences. The COG denomination still wants preachers to report how many people were Sanctified– as if it was a distinct one time experience.
Anonymous
Link Hudson feel free to remind yourself https://www.pentecostaltheology.com/?s=entire
Anonymous
PTS Professors back in ’88-’91 when I did my M.Div. elucidated the model for sanctification as both punctiliar and linear. More than one Prof. drew on the whiteboard: a dot & line picture. This was to emphasize the immediate sanctifying moment when a special work of grace for holiness occurred in a believer’s life AND THEN the on-going continual maintenance of sanctification in the believer’s life. The added emphasis was given to realize the Classical Pentecostal normative grew out of the Wesleyan theology of a special work of grace which led to “Christian Perfection” NOT “Absolute Perfection”. I have always taught this to the East African ministers! I still remember the emphasis on Pentecostal sanctification very vividly. It has been my experience as well over 35 years of missions ministry. When asked by various pastors, “If believers are sanctified and filled with the Holy Spirit, why do we need revival?” — Dr. Gause stated, “That would be true, except for the human condition.” These words still ring in my mind. Troy Day Tony Richie
Anonymous
Neil Steven Lawrence I remember that too! Nowadays, we also use crisis-development language to indicate both definitive and progressive aspects of sanctification.
Anonymous
Tony Richie how bout scripture and in context and not a proof text list. Not being mean spirited but wanting to learn.
Anonymous
John Mushenhouse of course. Neil Steven Lawrence and I were classmates back in the day. His comments brought back shared memories.
Anonymous
Tony Richie what scripture do you have? It is a very important subject. Thanks.
Anonymous
Summary: The original recipients of the invitation to the banquet (Matthew 22:1-7) refused to attend, giving flimsy excuses that resulted in their destruction (v.7). Who would attend the banquet now? Here is where we see the king’s mercy extend to “the least of these.”
The Christian band, Sidewalk Prophets, wrote a song entitled “Come to the Table,” based on the Parable of the Wedding Banquet (Matthew 22:1-14) and the call of God for everyone, regardless of their situation, to come to the table and take place in the celebration.
The Wedding Banquet is an evangelistic illustration of the love and mercy of God toward us in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us (Romans 5:6-11). He freely offers the gift of eternal life to all who come to Him for salvation (Matthew 11:28-30; John 3:16, 10:28-30; Acts 4:12; Romans 6:23, 10:9-10, 13).
Anonymous
It is better to rely on Jesus Christ before sinning will reduce the numbers.