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by Steve WEBB
I have spent considerable time contemplating this title question…how long was Adam in the Garden of Eden before the fall? I know Jewish tradition places their calendar start at the creation and we know from Genesis 5:3 that Seth was born when Adam was 130. Cain and Abel would have been ( I would think) adults before Cain killed Abel, and Seth was born after this point. Conservatively guessing, Adam was maybe 110 at the birth of Cain and/or Abel?
Were they born immediately after the fall? Going deeper, is it possible that Adam’s counted days started after the fall?
That is the position to which I lean. Why would a man in a perfect state, having never known the temporal pleasures of sin, walk away from God? I personally believe there would also need to be an account for a time frame of the fall of the rebellious angels, and then the seduction of Adam and Eve…but that is another topic altogether on dating the fall of the angels as opposed to the fall of man.
Either way, I feel that the dating of Adam’s days would have began with his fall, not his creation. I don’t believe God created Adam to die; I feel Adam was created perfectly in the image of God, and death was only a possibility upon entering into rebellion/sin. Adam lived 930 years according to Genesis 5:5. Each of his progeny through Noah (except Lamech) lived exceptionally long lives as well. Even Lamech, at 777 years, is exceptionally long, but shorter than the rest. Consider this list of ages through Noah:
Adam – 930
Seth – 912
Enosh – 905
Kenan – 910
Mahalalel – 895
Jared – 962
Enoch – raptured/taken at 365
Methuselah – 969
Lamech – 777
Noah – 950
All of the ages are in Genesis 5 except Noah, you can confirm that in Genesis 10:29.
Are we to believe that which is created by the seed of man is equally long lasting as that which was handcrafted by God? Possibly. I do not find a clear answer to the question.
Looking at this from a logical view it makes sense that Adam’s lifespan as recorded at 930 years would have been from his entrance into a sinful world. As a side note, I feel this would explain much in the world of science if there was an indeterminate time frame in which the earth existed, with Adam and Eve, before the fall and the current biblical dating of a world at some 5,000 years old.
Too much fits together for Adam and Eve having spent a substantial amount of time in the Garden of Eden, on earth, in the presence of God, before their fall and a dating of Adam’s life at that point forward being 930 years. Please leave your thoughts, comments…I’d love and appreciate dialogue on this perplexing to me topic.
Stan Wayne
I agree it is perplexing – also perplexing is the lack of explanation by Moses for statements that beg for questions. Why did they live long even after the fall? Why would Eve not have children while in the garden if it was long term? Does “Adam knew his wife” after expulsion from garden imply they did not have intercourse before?
What was outside the garden?
Were animals the same or different? Etc.
Steve Butcher
Stan Wayne all great questions. As well as the question of when Adam’s days started to be numbered. Along with those questions I always wondered what happened to the garden? We know angels were placed outside to guard it but for how long? And what became of the tree of knowledge and others? I never tried to study these things out. I believe we will know one day.
Stan Wayne
Tree of life survives at least :
“In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.”
Revelation 22:
Steve Butcher
Yes I thought about that as well. How does it survive? With God all things are possible but one question leads to many more. I realize these things aren’t critical to salvation but they’re fascinating nonetheless !
Stan Wayne
It might show that Genesis has more symbolism than we would like to admit
Steve Butcher
I suppose that’s possible also.
Jobe Nelson Statum III
WOW. What an important question. I guess Jesus didn’t care as He didn’t tell us. How about spending more time volunteering in cancer research where you might be more useful.?
Stan Wayne
This is a Theology chat room – it is not a zero sum game – cancer researchers can study theology when they get home at night
Varnel Watson
Gary Micheal Epping many years ago when Pete Fiske first got into this group a brother responded to him with this. Ricky Grimsley also concurred at the time {somewhat}
Gary Micheal Epping
In Steve’s explanation he says “this would explain much in the world of science if there was an indeterminate time frame in which the earth existed, with Adam and Eve, before the fall and the current biblical dating.” Does this mean we are discussing another GAP theory? Maybe Peter will yet become a Gappist, since he said around a hundred years. But whoa! Now we are looking at an indeterminate expanse of time. What does that mean, hundreds, thousands, millions of years before Adam sinned and was finally able to become one year old?
Varnel Watson
well Gary we’ve seen where extraterrestrial science has taken us 🙂
Gary Micheal Epping
I guess! It looks like a new Eden gap theory. But, I can not find anything on google to support this. Am I missing something?
Varnel Watson
What specifically? I may need to re-read it
Gary Micheal Epping
Troy Day Hadn’t back from you on this. What’s your take on the OP, and the time Adam was in Eden?
Varnel Watson
well I responded below on the 930 years which I agree is somewhat of a gap; but they were definitely there at day 6 when they were created Passed that IMHO it is but a speculation
Varnel Watson
Gary are you referring to the 930 year gap before Adam started counting the days?
Gary Micheal Epping
Steve said, “I feel that the dating of Adam’s days would have began with his fall, not his creation. Looking at this from a logical view it makes sense that Adam’s lifespan as recorded at 930 years would have been from his entrance into a sinful world… Too much fits together for Adam and Eve having spent a substantial amount of time in the Garden of Eden, on earth, in the presence of God, before their fall and a dating of Adam’s life at that point forward being 930 years.” The gap would be the amount of time Adam and Eve spent in the Garden before they sinned, which Steve said was “an indeterminate time frame” This period would be the GAP when Adam and Eve would remain less than a year old, and could reach hundreds, thousands, millions, or billions of years. Who know how long according to this OP.
Louise Cummings
I find no Scripture that tell us. But we know it was more than a day , like some might think it happened the first. But we know from the word of God. That God came down in the cool of the day to talk with Adam. Now how many days we don’t know. But we do know he was there long enough to name living creature that God made. You could go back to where a Day is a thousand years with the Lord. And a thousand years is as one Day. But I believe it was a 24 hr day. Like I believe He created this world and man in six days. And rested on the seventh. When the Lord let the Jews go into captivity for 70 years. For not letting their land rest for a year. , ever seven years. It had to be counted days or years. If He had counted a day for a thousand years. The Jews would have never have lived long enough to get back to Jerusalem. So we know the Lord came down and talked with Adan in the cool of the day. Adam was to take care of the garden. But the devil got in and talked through a snake.
Varnel Watson
what you think about this one
Robert Erwine
Gary Micheal Epping
It is time to throw out this idea of a post-Eden gap, whether it be 100 years according to Pete Fiske or who knows how long with Steve Webb (billions of years possibly).
First of all, God commanded Adam and Eve to “be fruitful and multiply.” If they obeyed, Eve would have had a child probably within a year, meaning they sinned before the birth of the child and were tossed of the garden. The Bible is clear that the pair did not have any children until after their exit from Eden. In order to stay in Eden for a hundred or billion years, they would have to disobey God and not have children. But, this would result in a sin of disobedience that likewise would result in them being cast out of Eden very quickly. So, it is not possible for a gap of any length to be present in post creation Eden. The time limit at the earliest would be on day 8 after God’ seventh day rest, and the latest would be before the birth of a child at 9 months.
Gary Micheal Epping
Pinpointing when Satan came to tempt Eve is important also in determining how long Adam and Eve were in the Garden. Peter says Gen 3 (the temptation by Satan, and the sin of Eve) could be postponed up to a hundred years, and with Steve’s argument it could be postponed thousands or billions of years. So determining when Lucifer fell and became Satan is important in determining how long the pair were in the garden.
This really is quite easy, if one doesn’t ignore some key information in the two classic passages about Lucifer’s fall. The first comes from IS 12:12-14, and the second one is in EZ 28:12-17. In verse 12 of IS 12, it says, “How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!” First, we need to note that in the garden of Eden before the fall of Adam and Eve, there were NO NATIONS TO WEAKEN, as Adam and Eve were the only humans living their. Then in verse 17 of EZ 28, it says, “Your heart was lifted up because of your beauty; You corrupted your wisdom for the sake of your splendor; I cast you to the ground, I laid you before kings,
That they might gaze at you.” The second thing to be noted is the statement that Satan was cast down before kings that gazed at him. Again, in the garden of Eden before Adam and Eve fell, there were no kings present to gaze at Satan.
So, we have a perplexing scenario. We know that Satan was in the garden in Gen 3 when he tempted Eve. But, from the above passages, it is clear that he was not thrown down into the garden of Eden or elsewhere on Earth while Adam and Eve were there. So when was he thrown down. It was not during the seven days of creation, but it had to be before Gen 3 when Eve was tempted. There is only one possible answer that takes us to Gen 1:2, “And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.” This passage is the result of Lucifer’s sin and fall to earth in an earlier era before the creation events that start in Gen 1:3. It was a pre-adam world that had had a hominoid society. Here the nations and the kings all saw Satan fall from heaven. In conclusion, Satan was already on the earth before the 7 days of Genesis. He was ready to tempt Adam and Eve at the earliest opportunity in order to get back at God.
Robert Erwine
why did God put the tree right in the middle of the garden ? its not like it could have been placed at a much more inaccessible location and what about the serpent ? why didn’t God notice him ? or even care ? it sounds like a set up through and through . why though ? so man may have discernment between good and evil ! how could man know it was wrong ? if they could not discern between good and evil ?
Hannah Mcabe
because they were supposed to trust God… i’ve prayed on this myself, but no matter what satan offered, they should have trusted / obeyed God..
as a parent you build up trust with your child so when you say ‘not to do something’ they trust you and obey you because they know you have their best interest at heart.
do you remove your oven from the kitchen because the child could burn them self? or do you teach your child that they’ll burn it if they touch it? ?
Varnel Watson
Gary Micheal Epping I believe the days were literal. There is no other reasonable explanation. The days were literal the gap was also literal though it may have taken ages.
Gen 1-3 constitutes that Adam and Eve where in Eden from literal day 6 of the Creation Week until their temptation and fall. As Jim Price often likes to speculate about Genesis – the dual creation story constitutes no chronological order that seems to be the same around the fall chronology Can we pin point a definite time?
Satan was there too. He did not fall during Creation week. It is never mentioned he did that then. Both Ezek + Job concur it must have happened in a time of a _gap_ We define the gap based on the Genesis narrative based on the witnesses of Ezek + Job about the fall of Satan. Evolution / new earth gives the circular thinking that it happened during the creation week, but when exactly – well during the creation week. Truth is they have NO real explanation