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Thangsan Hisfootstep | PentecostalTheology.com
How do (and should) we deal with Pentecostal oneness as a Trinitarian Pentecostal since we share together very similar spiritual experiences? Comment!
John Kissinger [03/19/2015 8:46 PM]
http://www.pentecostaltheology.com/trinity-what-pentecostals-believe-compare-to-c-s-lewis-view/
Varnel Watson
Kelly Crites Link Hudson I guess I got to ask directly – is oneness theology a complete heresy according to the BIBLE ?
Kelly Crites
Troy Day well from this group I have learned that not all Oneness Pentecostals believe the exact same things. So I can’t speak on all Oneness Pentecostals. But I will say that modalism is heresy.
Kelly Crites
Denying the Trinity is denying who God is in the scriptures.
Kelly Crites
And I would just like to note that Mormons and Jehovah Witnesses deny the trinity, both pretty much believe in a grace + works based salvation, and Mormons deny the inerrancy of scripture and the Jehovah Witnesses only accept it if they use their translation of the Bible the New World Translation.
Kelly Crites
Troy Day To get the nature of Christ wrong is to believe in a different Jesus. He is a distinct person of the triune God.
Sometimes people are just ignorant. Not a heretic. And sometimes we confuse the two.
Check this out:
Now a Jew named Apollos, a native of Alexandria, came to Ephesus. He was an eloquent man, competent in the Scriptures. He had been instructed in the way of the Lord. And being fervent in spirit, he spoke and taught accurately the things concerning Jesus, though he knew only the baptism of John. He began to speak boldly in the synagogue, but when Priscilla and Aquila heard him, they took him aside and explained to him the way of God more accurately. And when he wished to cross to Achaia, the brothers encouraged him and wrote to the disciples to welcome him. When he arrived, he greatly helped those who through grace had believed, for he powerfully refuted the Jews in public, showing by the Scriptures that the Christ was Jesus. Acts 18:24
But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing upon themselves swift destruction. And many will follow their sensuality, and because of them the way of truth will be blasphemed. And in their greed they will exploit you with false words. Their condemnation from long ago is not idle, and their destruction is not asleep. 2 Peter 2
And Christians at times call the incorrect or ignorant -heretics. And others call false sheep incorrect or mistaken. Both are wrong.
Nora Neel-Toney
Kelly Crites the Jesus only teaching does not deny the Trinity.
Nora Neel-Toney
Kelly Crites Mormans have their own Bible
Jamey Durst McCasland
Kelly Crites incredible stuff, there. I completely agree.
Kelly Crites
Nora Neel-Toney Mormons use the King James Version but also use the book of Mormon to guide them into “truth”.
Nora Neel-Toney
Kelly Crites I have s Mormon Bible given to me by a Mormon and was told it was their Bible. It does have some of the King James in it among the verses but it also has within the verses words their founder wrote in there.
Kelly Crites
Nora Neel-Toney yes but they use the King James Bible and the Book of Mormon. Because they do not believe in the inerrancy of scripture. Just like many Christians for some reason. If you can get people to believe the scriptures are flawed and all they need is the Holy Spirit to give them the true translation, their imaginations would run wild and all types of new weird doctrine like denying the Trinity or Grace plus works would develop.
Louise Cummings
They will tell you I believe in Baptism, according to Matthew 28:19. Where the Bible says go into all the World and preach the Gospel ,Baptizing them in The Name Of The Father , Son and The Holy Ghost. Because they know that’s the way we Baptize. They say it says the Name. Who is the Name. It’s Jesus. They say we baptize in a title. Not a Name. I know I have dealt with them a lot. My brother believes that way. For I can understand. That believe He was The Father in Heave. Came to earth as Jesus. Went back to the Father after Resurrection. Came back as the Holy Spirit. That’s the way I understood what he said. I know they believe we Baptize in a title instead of a Name. I told them everything I do, I do in Jesus Name. We pray in His Name. When I’m Baptized even though I was baptized in the Name Of The Father , Son , and Holy Ghost. I was doing it in Jesus Name. I haven’t found a way to deal with ithem. I’ll will admite that is the way Scriptures sometimes , that sounds like they could back it up there. But when you study it out. It gives the real meaning. But don’t think for a minute. If you don’t pay close attention, and know the Word. They can really confuse you.i got my writing spelled wrong. I tried to fix it i might have made it worse got questions, just ask ill try to fix it
Michael Hazlewood
There is no such verse anywhere in the Bible that says to baptized in the name of Father , Son and the Holy Ghost ; Read it again KJB
Michael Hazlewood
A Bible believing Christian is a Christian who obeys Bible for their salvation
Louise Cummings
Hazlewood Read Matthew 28:19-20. Go int all Nations and preach the gospel. Baptizing them in the Name Of The Father , Son and the Holy Ghost.
Michael Hazlewood
Louise Cummings In the name of The FATHER {and of the} Son {and of the} Holy Ghost which means a totally different thing ; The Scripture states there is one name (singular name) not three persons or Gods or persons of God or persons of a Godhead ALL False Doctrine
Louise Cummings
Michael Hazlewood The Bible said there are three that bare record in Heaven. They Father The Son and the Holy Spirit. These three are one. But in three persons. Who was He talking to when He said Let Us Make Man in Our Own Image. He was talking to The The Three. He certainly wasn’t talking to Angels. Because we are made different than Angels. He proved the Three when He was Baptized Of John. He, Jesus was in the water being Baptized. A Voice came from Heaven., The Father. And said this is My beloved Son. Hear Him. And the Spirit cam in the form of a Dove. That’s all Three at One Time. At the time of His Birth. He was Conceived of The Holy Spirit. He said a husband and wife are joined together , He the two has become one flesh. There was two of them. But the Bible said they became as one Spirit. But there was two of them. One more example. When God made Adam and put Him in the Garden. He named all the animals , birds , everything. God told Adam not to eat Of that one tree , in the midst of the garden. Or that day he would surely die. Then He said Adam doesn’t have a help Meet. So God caused Adam to go to sleep. And took a rib from Eve and created and joined them together. He Said you are now bone of my bone and flesh. And you together shall become on flesh. I am parefrazing now read carefully what happened. The snake beguiled Eve. They was one , remember. But two of them. The snake beguiles Eve. Or deceived. Ask her can you eat Of all these trees. She said the one in the middle. We can’t eat Of it lest we die. The devil said you won’t die. But will become as Gods , knowing good and evil. Eve looked. ( first sin.). Then she listed saying it does look good ( sin 2 ). Then she took a bite. (Sin three). Have you ever noticed , the Bible doesn’t say anything about her eyes coming opened. Until Adam took a bite. And the Bible says their eyes coming opened. Until Adam ate. Then their eyes Came opened. And they knew what good and evil was. All through you will see all Three was used but I different ways. Just think about those things.
Louise Cummings
I should have made this in two points instead of one long one.
Michael Hazlewood
Louise Cummings but in three persons ????? did you just Add thereunto ?
Michael Hazlewood
Louise Cummings Yes He was talking to Angels and we aren’t made like the Holy Ghost either
Michael Hazlewood
Louise Cummings Adam and Eve were one made out of the other and married are you suggesting this is how the Godhead works ?
Louise Cummings
Michael Hazlewood were you made in His Image. Well there were three listed here. The Father, Son , and The Holy Ghost. He said we were created in His Image. How do you know He was talking to Angels. We were not created in their Image. We were created in His Image. The Bible says do. Thank
Michael Hazlewood
Louise Cummings 1John 5:6,7,8 KJB These three are ONE
Louise Cummings
Michael first you believe the Bible.Look it up and see for your self.
Michael Hazlewood
Louise Cummings None of you look up any Scripture and believe it for what it says but just philosophy Scripture away and accuse God and me NONE of you have or can show Scripture I ask for ; I have shown everything in Scripture you ask for so keep philosiphying your salvation away and I will keep Believing God is The Truth and every man a liar
Louise Cummings
I was going to tell you. They think we believe in three Gods. I mixed the top up some. I tried to fix it Made it worse I think. If you need me to delete and rewrite. I will.
Louise Cummings
No , they don’t believe in the Trinity.
Louise Cummings
Heresy , well I don’t know if that would be Heresy or not. I just know There is a God Who had a Son Jesus. And promised us The Holy Spirit on the the book of Acts. All three seems to have a part in the End Times. But I don’t know how to classify them.
Michael Hazlewood
LOOK at the wheel of Prophecy Scriptures tell us who He is
Michael Hazlewood
Louise Cummings
You can draw a circle with God in the middle. But stems from God is God The Father. God The Son. And God The Holy Ghost. Making Three Persons. Read my arrival below.
Michael Hazlewood
Louise Cummings God the Son and God the Holy Ghost are ABSOLUTELY non Scriptural
Varnel Watson
Kelly Crites this group is NOT oneness though we have a few; but deems such doctrinal deviation a Biblical heresy The Oneness Pentecostal movement first emerged in America around 1914 as the result of doctrinal disputes within the nascent Pentecostal movement and was quickly deemed a heresy It began at a Pentecostal camp meeting in California in 1913 when one of the participants, John G. Scheppe, experienced the power and was later expelled for doctrinal heresy Today Oneness Pentecostals are charismatics who deny the Holy Trinity and remain in oneness heresy
Michael Hazlewood
The heretics are the ones with no scripture to show the doctrine
Louise Cummings
Troy Day read my last statement. A little further down.
Varnel Watson
Louise Cummings I agree with it – it is a heresy
Louise Cummings
Troy Day I believe in theTrinity. I can’t see why people can’t see it. But it’s hard for me to say it’s a complete Hersey. My brother believed in that. I want to think he’s in Heaven. I don’t know where to say false doctrine or deceived.
Louise Cummings
Troy Day I wrote my answer in the wrong place. I believe in the Trinity. It’s hard for me to say my brother isn’t in Heaven. So it’s hard to call it a completely Heresy or deceived. I don’t believe they are the only ones going to Heaven. But can’t believe in what they teach. So is it Heresy, or deceived?
Louise Cummings
I know you stand before God for what He said. He doesn’t make excuses for anyone that’s wrong, or with sin in their life. The only way is to repent before you meet Him.
Michael Hazlewood
Louise Cummings The spiritual ignorance yall have had ingrained into you is astounding and SOOOOO SAAADDDD
John Duncan
God gave His Son to die for our sins. God did not give Himself.
Michael Hazlewood
Not what God Promised through Abraham to Isaac ?
Michael Hazlewood
Isaiah 12 and chpter 9 vs 6
John Duncan
Michael Hazlewood NT gospel is God sent His Son.
Michael Hazlewood
The Father of Christ Jesus is the Holy Ghost BUT ONLY IF you believe The Holy Bible Matthew 1:18-21 KJB
Michael Hazlewood
John Duncan God ( THE Holy Ghost) sent His Son (manifested in the flesh) 1Tim. 3:16 KJB
John Duncan
Michael Hazlewood you reject the greatest sacrifice Of God giving His Son John 3:16.
Louise Cummings
Michael Hazlewood do you believe there was two now. He was conceived of the Holy Spirit. He wasn’t conceived by man’s blood. Because man had dined. The Bible said He would be born of the Seed of a woman. Men have Seed. A woman has eggs. So the Seed that was conceived of The Holy Ghost. Came through a woman. So He had no sin.
Michael Hazlewood
Louise Cummings THE seed of God is His Word ; The Word was made flesh ; I just love the way yall twist what I say ignore Scripture and argue (NOT TEACH) but argue your thoughts and feelings as equal and/or above Scripture ; Ever learning never coming to a knowledge of the Truth
Louise Cummings
Michael Hazlewood I didn’t twist it. Everyone should know the Seed is His Word. But I gave you John one and verse one. It explains it in that Chapter. And the Word was made flesh and dwelt among us. And we beheld Him, as the only Son Of God. He was a Begotten Son. The Bible tell us that. The Only Begotten. He was conceived by the Holy Ghost or Spirit. The same word.
Michael Hazlewood
Louise Cummings YES ONE person in which ALL the fulness of the Godhead dwells not 3
Michael Hazlewood
Louise Cummings John 1:1-[14] lets us know there aint no trinity of persons in a Godhead Phil 2:9-10 Col. 2:9-10 Revelation 1:8 KJB
Varnel Watson
Kelly Crites I feel we can very firmly according to Scripture as well as from Church fathers and early AG Pentecostal fellowship claim with certainty that oneness theology is NOT from the Bible and therefore deem it a heresy
Not long ago we debated ALL scripture verses oneness folk use in defense of their heresy and I can repost them for another debate but the way I’ve seen it – after confronted with Biblical scholarship they cannot twist the verses no more and fail to respond – waste of time
Now Joe Absher I believe I have finally figured why Link Hudson present such frontology in the group after asking him about the Trinity. I now believe he was part of cog, but cog-indiana it seems
Joe Absher
There is a difference of course. I’ve meet some of them. They have a great testimony service and preach on the street.
Louise Cummings
Joe Absher if you read up above. Last night I recommended this one who has been writing me. To read that very same chapter of John , for him to read. If you will go back and look just under where you and Bro Troy Day had Ask a question, I thing. Well I wrote this to him to read after y’all was finished writing. I wrote that same thing to him to read. And a few more comments. I think. I am Church Of God. But we don’t teach what they teach. My brother married into a family that taught that. But he said that , my brother I’m talking about. He said that wasn’t what made him believe that. He had found it in the Bible. He was a preacher. Lived a good life. So he was always trying to prove it to me. That’s why I know so much about what they teach. I sure i don’t know it all. But I was raised Baptist as a young girl. Until I was a teenager. We didn’t live near Pentecostal churches. When we moved close to a Church Of God. It’s called the Cleveland Church Of God. Established in 1906. I think. The reason they call it Cleveland , is because that is where our head quarters are. But I got to going there. Got filled with The Holy Ghost. And not long after. God called me into the ministry. But some of their teachings didn’t ever stick with me. Because I can’t believe in once saved always saved. No matter what you do you never had to worry about sin any more because Jesus forgave our passed , present, and future. So you don’t have to worry about the sins any more. They have already been forgiven. Well to me that’s hog wash. If you sin and don’t repent. You are going to Heaven. Also some is born to go to Heaven and some to go to hell. Now I’m not afraid to say. They are causing thousands of people go to hell. Because of a false doctrine.
Louise Cummings
Read the first chapter of John.
Varnel Watson
‘Jesus Only’ Isn’t Enough
Where exactly do Oneness Pentecostals stand in relation to orthodoxy?
Are they in or out?
This difference in the matter of words used during baptisms represents something far more important: a different view of the nature of Father, Son, and Holy Spirit—what orthodox Christians refer to as the Trinity. If asked if they believe in God the Father, Son, and Spirit, all Oneness Pentecostals would not know what to tell you and start twisting the BIBLE
Michael Hazlewood
What a bunch of HOGWASH doctrine and false accusations you have against Gods’ people
Varnel Watson
Michael Hazlewood do you have an actual Biblical proof for your claim or are you just spamming the group?
Michael Hazlewood
Troy Day Every time I post scripture yall delete it and false accuse
Varnel Watson
Michael Hazlewood ALL Scriptures are still posted and I’ve tagged you under But instead of insults you should try interpreting the BIBLE not in a heretical way
Michael Hazlewood
Troy Day The Scripture are to be unveiled by the Holy Ghost not interpreted ; The Scriptures are of no mans interpretation
Varnel Watson
Michael Hazlewood then unveil them – dont just spam
Michael Hazlewood
Troy Day You and your theologicals would not know a Holy Ghost revelation if it were given you
Louise Cummings
Not against people. I don’t know many from that church. But I know my brother that married into a family that beloved this. And a few more. The ones I know are good clean living people. And I love them. I love people everywhere. That doesn’t men I except what they teach. I never heard of this church , until my brother married into a family that believe this. I know what I know because of my brother. If a church ever had a good representative of a church. You had one in my brother. It was all he talked about. Mostly to me. He didn’t talked to all the rest of the family like he did to me. I reckon it was because he knew I was serious with God. But that doesn’t mean I don’t love you people. But the Bible does tell us not to let false teachers Gods speed. But I can only say we all are in the hands of a merciful God. All I can tell you is The Bible says Study to show thyself approved unto God , tightly devising the Word Of God. Teaching us to deny ungodly lust. To live Righteously , and Godly , in this present World. Pray about what you read. And try to understand the Word.
Louise Cummings
I don’t use the book of Mormons. What is he?Mormon or Oneness.
Michael Hazlewood
WHAT ????????????????
John Duncan
Mormons, JW or Oneness mean something completely different when they say Jesus and Gospel.
Varnel Watson
its all the same
only the name will change
but not the name of Jesus
John Duncan
Oneness Jesus is not the Biblical Jesus. It is another Jesus. Jesus was With God in the Beginning (John 1).
John Duncan
John 1:1 “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God.” HE HE HE was WITH God in the beginning. Who is HE? Jesus. UPC say Jesus not there with God in the beginning. UPC Jesus is another Jesus like the Mormons and JWs have a Jesus with anti Biblical attributes.
John Duncan
John 1:1 “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God.” HE HE HE was WITH God in the beginning. Who is HE? Jesus. UPC say Jesus not there with God in the beginning. UPC Jesus is another Jesus like the Mormons and JWs have a Jesus with anti Biblical attributes.
Michael Hazlewood
There aint three HEs and you know it
Michael Hazlewood
There aint no HE mentioned except in the devils bibles
Michael Hazlewood
Who does the Bible say The Everlasting Father is in Isaiah 9:6 OR The Almighty in Revelation 1:8 OR Who was God in John 1:1-14 KJB ? NOT a second God or Person
John Duncan
1 John 5:7 says these 3 are 1 not 1 are 1 but 3 are 1. KJV
Michael Hazlewood
John Duncan ALL the fullness of the Godhead dwells IN HIM not them
John Duncan
verse 3 in the kjv says, “All things were made by HIM; and without HIM was not…” Him = Jesus in the KING JAMES BIBLE. Jesus was WITH God in the Beginning according to KJV.
John Duncan
UPC say Jesus was not with God in the Beginning.
John Duncan
Michael Hazlewood Jesus was WITH God in the beginning – John 1:1-4. UPC rejects this BIBLE truth. He (Jesus) creates all things. What if you have been lied to by UPC?
Varnel Watson
truth is UPC rejects many BIBLE truths
Michael Hazlewood
John Duncan No where does the Holy Bible say that only Satans bibles say that
Michael Hazlewood
John Duncan Jesus is The Almighty and His Word was with Him in the beginning and His Word (THE SEED OF GOD) was made flesh Immanuel GOD WITH US
Michael Hazlewood
I don’t care what the UPC likes or don’t like
Varnel Watson
the BIBLE says Jesus was WITH GOD
Michael Hazlewood
Troy Day NO IT DONT Satan does though in his bibles
Varnel Watson
John 1:1 is the first verse in the opening chapter of the Gospel of John. In the
Douay–Rheims,
King James,
New International,
and other versions of the Bible, the verse reads: In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Michael Hazlewood
Troy Day NOT A GOD ; was and is God today and forever ; not a second person
John Duncan
KJV says 1:4 Jesus was with God. Hard to see when have bias motives not to see truth. Very plain for everyone else.
Varnel Watson
Michael Hazlewood our KJV BIBLE clearly says in Matthew 28:19 :
Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost
Do you reject the KJV BIBLE now?
Michael Hazlewood
IN THE NAME ; not persons or titles or anything else philosophically explaining away the Bible to fit religions narrative of control over people , property and money
Varnel Watson
YES – it clearly says
the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost
Michael Hazlewood
Troy Day Can you explain what THE NAME of ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, is ?
Varnel Watson
I dont need to explain or interpret what the BIBLE clearly says in Matthew 28:19
Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost
Michael Hazlewood
Troy Day It means to be baptized in Jesus name for the remission of sin OR die in your sin Mrk 16:16 KJB
Varnel Watson
How SO when it clearly says
in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost
are you now saying we should ignore what the KJV Bible plainly says and listen to your private interpretation which does not even come from the BIBLE ?