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DUAL THEOLOGY: ALL Israel WILL be SAVED?
Philip Williams
Yes, stood on its head to say the very opposite of what it does say. It doesn’t say, “and then all Israel will be saved” but “in this way all Israel will be saved.” What way is Paul referring to? He is talking about the all the Gentiles coming into Israel.
Israel was not like the Gentile nations. Membership in the Old Covenant was not by natural birth but by circumcision. Can’t everyone see that by that strange rite God is saying, “No indeed! That’s not how you become a member of Israel!”
Even so, the promises are entirely for the Israel of God. These are from Gentiles brought into the 12 tribes through Jesus and the Apostles who he appointed over the 12 tribes that are being saved. We see them in Rev 7 and in Rev 14 standing with the Lamb on Mount Zion, where the gospel will go out to all nations.
Robert Erwine
strange rite ? more like bizarre
Philip Williams
Robert Erwine ‘‘twas indeed. And Jews of the Hellenistic era living among Greeks endured scorn.
Robert Erwine
it has pagan roots , nowhere would God want people to mutilate their genitals to prove convent with a good God . the only reason the practice is accepted in America is off of Victorian era junk science .
Philip Williams
Robert Erwine if you aren’t a believer in the Bible, aren’t you in the wrong forum?
Robert Erwine
whoa how do you go from that to calling me an unbeliever ?
Philip Williams
Robert Erwine anyone who claims pagan roots for the Bible has rejected the faith.
Robert Erwine
I said that practice, don’t get it twisted
Philip Williams
Robert Erwine that practice was implemented by God when he called Abraham!
Robert Erwine
seems a very odd thing of the God of the universe to request as that particular practice was done by pagan sex cults prior to that request , thats all I was saying.
Philip Williams
Robert Erwine Where did you learn such nonsense?
Robert Erwine
how is it nonsense , this historical fact , do you think Abraham invented it on God’s command ?
Philip Williams
Abraham did not invent it. God commanded it:
“Then God said to Abraham, “As for you, you must keep my covenant, you and your descendants after you for the generations to come. This is my covenant with you and your descendants after you, the covenant you are to keep: Every male among you shall be circumcised. You are to undergo circumcision, and it will be the sign of the covenant between me and you. For the generations to come every male among you who is eight days old must be circumcised, including those born in your household or bought with money from a foreigner—those who are not your offspring. Whether born in your household or bought with your money, they must be circumcised. My covenant in your flesh is to be an everlasting covenant. Any uncircumcised male, who has not been circumcised in the flesh, will be cut off from his people; he has broken my covenant.”” Genesis 17:9-14
John Crilly
Philip Williams The key to this discussion are this questions….Who is Israel? Who are Gods chosen people ? Who are the heirs according to the promises? What is a natural Jew and who are the spiritual Jew? Who are the children of God? And who are those God calls the “remnant”
To start Heb:8:13…Gal:3:1-29 and there are many more scriptures to show the answers to are questions. Rom:11:7-36. The key is to find out who are the remnant and who are Abrahams seed.
Philip Williams
John Crilly
Very easy. Those who trust in Abraham’s God are the children of the Promise. The other seed do not share in the Promise.
Jim Price
” How impossible it is for us to understand his decisions and his methods.” Rom. 11:33 NLT If we start out with this disclaimer from Paul, it is easier to understand the passage. Paul is trying to blend together two periods of history and two cultures and get two kinds of people to hear and understand what neither one wants to hear. Here he is talking about units of people not individuals. Secondly he is facing the difficulty that we all have and that is finding the right language to convey new thoughts and understanding.
Varnel Watson
Jim Price Billy Monroe Poff Philip Williams where do we see this in the Scriptures? Romans or Revelation ?
Jim Price
I would say that both Rom. and Rev.,have very difficult passages to comprehend. Both are trying to grasp the collision of two worlds, two major thrusts of God. One might think of them as the thunderstorms of history, the ushering out of the old the entering of the new.
RichardAnna Boyce
Romans 11:28-36
What follows from vv 28-32 summarizes not only vv 1-27 but also the entire content of chaps. 9-11. When Israel rejected the gospel (9:30-10:21; 11:7,11; 1 Thess 2:14-16) the nation became enemies of God, causing Him to reject them (9:6-29; 10:16-21; 11:1-24:255). In God’s sovereign plan this occurred for the sake of Gentile salvation (11:11-15). Nevertheless, though God has turned to the Gentiles, He does not hate, nor has He fully rejected the Israelites. Concerning the election they are still His chosen people (though temporarily set aside), and are therefore still beloved for the sake of the fathers. God’s special love for the elect is an outgrowth of His love for the patriarchs (Abraham, Isaac and Jacob; cf. v 16) and the promises He made to them (Ex 2:24; Deut 7:7-8).
God explains that His free choice of election is based on His gifts (that which is freely given) and callings (“invitation to experience a special privilege,”). These are irrevocable. Though the term irrevocable appears at the end of the English sentence, Paul emphasizes this act of God by placing it at the beginning of the Greek sentence. Paul emphatically believes that God will never renege on any promise to Israel.
11:30-32. Paul now explains how God’s electing love for Israel in vv 28-29 is further expressed in vv 30-32. As Gentiles (indicated by you; cf. v 12) were once disobedient to God (perhaps thinking of 1:18-32), they have now obtained mercy because of Jewish disobedience (perhaps thinking of 2:1-3:8). Yet because God showed mercy to undeserving Gentiles (you) after the Jews rejected Christ, undeserving Israel (they) will likewise receive mercy and believe in Christ at some point in the future (cf. vv 23,26-27). Israel’s disobedience is preparing them to be ready and willing to receive mercy when God again turns to them in the Tribulation period that completes Daniel’s 70 th week prophecy (9:24-27; cf. Rom 9:26). Hence, at the end God levels the playing field, having committed Jew and Gentiles (i.e., them all) to disobedience so that mercy can come equally to all.
11:33-36. The revelation of God’s purposes and plans (probably revealed in chaps. 1-11) causes the apostle to break out in an emotional doxology (hymn) of praise to God. Paul’s praise includes four elements, followed by two quotations, which elevate God to a level unimaginable to the feeble human mind. First, God’s riches (recalls His mercy of 2:4; 9:23; 10:12; 11:12) encompass wisdom and knowledge. The phrase wisdom and knowledge of God seems to be related to God’s incredible plan delineated in Romans to save both Jews and Gentiles. God’s unique judgments and ways of dealing with humanity show that total comprehension is humanly impossible (cf. Job 42:3; Ps 147:5; Isa 40:28; 2 Bar 14:8-9).
Thinking of God’s unfathomable ways (v 33) causes Paul to employ quotations from Isa 40:13 and Job 41:11. This shows how no one has ever been able to know “the mind of the LORD…become His counselor,” or place Him in a position of debt to humanity. God’s dealings with humanity are by grace. Paul concludes that no one has the right to demand anything from God, because He is the source (i.e., out of Him), sustainer (i.e., through Him) and the goal (i.e., to Him) of all things (cf. 1 Cor 8:6; Col 1:16-17). Therefore, after asking the hard questions of life, the Christian’s attitude should be that of Paul’s: to God be the glory forever.
Isara Mo
Are names written in the Book of Lamb by inheritance or confession of the Lamb?
Varnel Watson
Billy Monroe Poff Tom Steele Philip Williams Alan Smith Hagee argues that “the Old Covenant is not dead” (p. 158). In fact, “Scripture plainly indicates that the church (spiritual Israel) and national Israel exist side by side, and neither replaces the other — ever!” (p. 146, emph. his). “Replacement theology advances the concept that the Old Covenant, or Old Testament, has been replaced by the New Testament” (p. 158).
These assertions require us to believe that Jews are saved today without express faith in Christ — in that they are under the God-ordained, continuing old covenant standards. But not even this helps the Jews much since they do not have a temple in order to carry out the requirements of the old covenant!
Gary Micheal Epping
John Hagee can say ‘the old covenant is not dead’ or whatever else he wants to say, but what we need to know is what Jesus says in JOHN 14:6, which fully answers the salvation issue, “I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life; no man cometh unto the Father, but by Me.” That goes goes for Jew, Gentile, and all of mankind after the the time of Christ’s resurrection.
Varnel Watson
SO Gary Micheal Epping Philip Williams all Israel IS saved now as we speak or WILL be saved – if so WHEN about?
Philip Williams
All Israel will be saved when the full number of Gentiles has come in to God’s Israel.
Varnel Watson
Philip Williams wouldnt it be upon MESSIAH ?
Philip Williams
Troy Day ??
Varnel Watson
Israel recognizing the true Messiah – they cannot just be saved without having a Messiah save them
Philip Williams
The Messiah is the King of Israel. Impossible to be of Israel and not recognize Israel’s king.
Varnel Watson
Philip Williams Hagee seems to be involving the russians in his Messianic narrative http://www.pentecostaltheology.com/ezekiel-war-the-russians-are-coming/
Varnel Watson
Israel uncovers road Jesus walked from Pool of Siloam. https://www.foxnews.com/science/israel-road-jesus-temple-ancient-jerusalem
admit that I am not as solid as I once was concerning “Israelicentric” Eschatology. In other words, I’m not as convinced as I once was that there even has to be a reconstituted Jewish State in order for Christ to return. While I reject the term “replacement theology”, you might label me an adherent to “FULFILLMENT theology”.
However, geopolitically I support the state of Israel 100%. It is an island of normalcy in a sea of perversion. One of the reasons I support Israel is because of the access tourists and researchers have to Biblical sights. There is so much there archeologically that validates the claims of the Bible, and Israel protects these treasures. I can only imagine what an ISIS type regime would do if they took power in “Greater Liberated Palestine”. I fear that the fate that befell the 2000-year-old Buddha statues would befall most archeological evidence in Israel if that happened.