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Many teach that the coming of Christ in Mat. 24 to gather his elect is His descent to the earth to establish God’s Kingdom, rather than a descent to the sphere of the clouds to gather the elect and bring them to heaven.
…and they shall gather his elect from (out of Gr.1537) the four winds (the four corners of the earth, the earthy sphere) from (away from Gr.575) one end of the heavens (pl.no art) to (unto Gr.2193) the other.
When we turn to Mark 13:27 we shall get more insight into this passage.
shall gather his elect from (out of Gr.1537) the four winds (earthy sphere) away from (Gr.2193) the one end of earth unto (Gr.2193) the end of the Heaven (sing).
The one end of the heavens in Matthew is explained in Mark as being the one end of the earth. The unto the other (end of the heavens) in Matthew is explained in Mark as, "the" Heaven, the abode of GOD, that the great multitude which came out of (Gr.1537) the tribulation where delivered unto (Rev.7:14; Mt.24:13,22,29-31).
After the day of the Lord’s judgments, the Lord will indeed return to establish his kingdom, but before this, the elect will be saved from the persecutions of the tribulation and delivered from the wrath of God that is to come upon the earth.
Is the Greek here saying that the elect will be gathered out of the earth (the four winds) away from one end of the heavens (the earthly sphere), unto (delivered unto) the other (the heaven, the abode of God), which is in accord with the three-tiered universe of (ANE) cosmology?
Anonymous
After the day of the Lord’s judgments, the Lord will indeed return to establish his kingdom, but before this, the elect will be saved from the persecutions of the tribulation and delivered from the wrath of God that is to come upon the earth.
Is the Greek here saying that the elect will be gathered out of the earth (the four winds) away from one end of the heavens (the earthly sphere), unto (delivered unto) the other (the heaven, the abode of God), which is in accord with the three-tiered universe of (ANE) cosmology?
Anonymous
After the day of the Lord’s judgments, the Lord will indeed return to establish his kingdom, but before this, the elect will be saved from the persecutions of the tribulation and delivered from the wrath of God that is to come upon the earth.
Is the Greek here saying that the elect will be gathered out of the earth (the four winds) away from one end of the heavens (the earthly sphere), unto (delivered unto) the other (the heaven, the abode of God), which is in accord with the three-tiered universe of (ANE) cosmology?
Anonymous
HOW would you know Philip Williams have you been able to find any resurrection here for Brett Dobbs hasnt Duane L Burgess already explain this being about ISRAEL ?
Anonymous
Troy Day here is a parable depicting the same gathering, showing that this is the gathering of the church occurring in the earth.
“and the enemy who sowed them is the devil. The harvest is the end of the age, and the reapers are angels. Just as the weeds are gathered and burned with fire, so will it be at the end of the age. The Son of Man will send his angels, and they will gather out of his kingdom all causes of sin and all law-breakers, and throw them into the fiery furnace. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. Then the righteous will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears, let him hear.”
Matthew 13:39-43
Anonymous
Troy Day summit this to the website as a fair rebuttal.
Matthew 24:31 (KJV) And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
I’m no Greek scholar but with a concordance I have the resources to dissect a passage just as good as anyone else. Concerning “and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds” is pretty much word for word renderings of the Greek when comparing to other various usages of the Greek words. “Four” τέσσαρες is simply the number four. “Winds” ἄνεμος is simply wind. As far as what it means as a phrase when these two words are put together “four winds” I’ll get to that.
I don’t see any other possible renderings of individual Greek words until the phrase; “one end” ἄκρον is also translated as “uttermost part” and it is used here twice;
Mark 13:27 (KJV) And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.
Heaven: οὐρανός a word used for the heaven; Where God dwells. Also a generic term for the visible sky. The great expanse that is above. This is how a first century Greek would have understood it.
The text could easily render Matt. 24:31 this way; (gathering the elect)
“from the four winds, from the uttermost of heaven to the uttermost”
There is no reason to doubt that Mark 13:27 is saying the same thing. Though Mark includes “earth” along with the heavens. Because it truly is a gathering of all the elect from the earth and those who are already in heaven.
The four winds simply means the four directions that the winds blow from. But in these passages the “four winds” is given locality. It is the space from which the 4 winds come from. Which is the air or sky. From all directions. The four winds is where the call is coming from.
Also the four corners of the earth is never mentioned in these passages. And also, the four winds “earthly sphere” is true in a sense but it definitely wouldn’t have been the way the 1st century would have understood that to mean. They didn’t know that the earth is a sphere. It would simply mean the in all directions from the visible expanse above.
But overall, let’s just use the Bible to interpret the Bible.
Scripture also gives no indication of separate times of gathering. In fact it says the opposite. When the fullness of times comes, there will be just one massive gather of all. All the elect. At the same time. Not some and then the rest 7 years later.
Ephesians 1:10 (KJV) That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; [even] in him:
1 Thessalonians 4:16 (KJV) For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
2 Thessalonians 1:7 (KJV) And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
2 Thessalonians 2:1-3 (KJV) 1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and [by] our gathering together unto him, 2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. 3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for [that day shall not come], except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
Then after the gathering.
Revelation 19:11 (KJV) And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him [was] called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
Revelation 19:14 (KJV) And the armies [which were] in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
Anonymous
Brett Dobbs OUT from the four winds” would be the proper translation meaning they are NOT physically ON earth AS 1 Thess 4 confirms
Anonymous
Troy Day I would have no problem with “out from the four winds”. Because at his coming, he does gather those who are asleep or dead in Christ, those who souls who are already in heaven, when he descends from heaven with those souls and then calls up those who are alive on earth.
Anonymous
Brett Dobbs you are mix and matching once again
MT 24 does NOT speak of asleep or dead – good luck finding it
BUT it does speak of them being IN heaven as you pointed out
Matthew 24:31 (KJV) And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
Anonymous
Troy Day just because Jesus doesn’t give every little detail of the event doesn’t discard it from being the exact same event that Paul is giving the details of.
Anonymous
Brett Dobbs but JESUS DOES give every little detail of the event
He says they are ALREADY in the havens 🙂
Anonymous
Troy Day who are the they though?
Paul gives us more details. Those who are asleep/dead.