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Jon Sellers | PentecostalTheology.com
If you are here to learn because you are genuinely interested in Pentecostal theology, I would be happy to help you. But if you are only searching for ammunition to use in your polemics against Pentecostals in your seminary, then I pray you repent. It truly grieves the Holy Spirit for Calvinists to attack all other streams of Christian theology. Constructive disagreement and discussion can be edifying, but it must stick to the text. You ventured off into questioning my hermeneutical practices immediately. Why? Why not just offer a better hermeneutic and exegesis if you have one? Or did you find my presentation irrefutable???
One question, Barry G. Carpenter, which of the you tube videos from your March teaching series covers Pentecostal and charismatic theology? I would very much like to listen to it.
Barry G. Carpenter [06/30/2015 12:31 AM]
Brother Jon Sellers: Please sir re-read your latest post. Please sir, are you not making assumptions? In our converation I have not impugned your knowledge or your character one time. I have not made any assumptions but have only asked for clarifications of your position. I have never addressed your motives one time sir. Can you say the same? It is regretful that FB only prints words and not expression- please sir, my expression is not hostile so I hope you can act in god faith towards me as well. It has been my experience when a person cannot support their position they result to personal attacks. Examples (and maybe you have dealt with these groups as well)- If we corner the KJV-ONly they will inevitable accuse us of not believe in an inspired Bible (which of course is not true). When we corner the Fundamentalists he might accuse us of not being saved or being a liberal. In all fairness, the Calvinist might personally attack us (more likely -you- said with a smile) that you have “weak theology.” Yes, I did question your hermeneutics. Is this not a hermeneutical issue sir? I don’t why that offends you- do not ot have to give good, sound reason for our interpretation? Your response was to accuse me by your litmus test: maybe I am a cessationist. Yet, I don;t know yo and you don;t know me. I offered to drop the issue and leave you alone but I appreciate you opening the discussion. Maybe I’ll just ignore your somewhat snide sounding remarks (“since you teach seminary courses…), ok?
Jon Sellers [06/30/2015 12:37 AM]
Fair enough, I think the discussion can move along from here. My questions are: what do you think of Carson’s commentary? Do you agree with him or think he is inventing things in his interpretation? Second, I think I have established that I am not ignoring the immediate context or the larger context of the entire gospel. Therefore, how does your understanding of the context offer any new exegetical insights?
Barry G. Carpenter [06/30/2015 12:37 AM]
Now, I need for the sake of courtesy try to answer your questions. I am familiar and have read Olson- in fact I recommend him. Not because I agree but to my knowledge, he is one of the most consistent Arminians I know alive today. I have “told no lies” about you or anyone else. So why do you bring this into the discussion. I am assuming nothing about you- so I do not think it is fair for you to also make these assumptions. I find this to be the big problem- and it is hindering our understanding of each other (as groups) AND our develop of theology as a whole. If your truly interested in my view of Holy Spirit and what I teach I would be happy to share (unfortunately I do not have videos on my System 1,2,3 classes because I don;t have good equipment).
Ed Brewer
no
Louise Cummings
I m not to familiar with that word. Even though I read the article on it. I believe everyone has a choice to receive God. Or a choice to reject Him. I don’t believe God president some to go to hell. And some to go to Heaven. I believe He died for us all to go to Heaven. But man is the only one that God made to make choices. And a lot of people doesn’t choose God by their
Own choice. God gave every one a chance. I Choose God.
Varnel Watson
Jon Sellers pointed out that John is speaking against the backdrop of Jewish belief that they are all descendants of Abraham by birth. They can identify themselves by tribe. But Jesus has already rebuked the Pharisees for claiming to be children of Abraham, but not doing the deeds of Abraham http://www.pentecostaltheology.com/does-john-112-13-teach-monergism/
Varnel Watson
Monergism is the position in Christian theology that God, through the Holy Spirit, works to bring about the salvation of an individual through spiritual regeneration http://www.gotquestions.org/monergism-vs-synergism.html
Louise Cummings
I still don’t understand these terms all together. You mad each category clear. But not really for me. We didn’t bring these words up in any of our Bible studies that I know of. One I have heard of before. But I do not believe in unconditional eternal security. I would be afraid The Blood of Jesus would be required at my hands to tell people they could be born again or saved. And lived for the Lord a little while then start sinning again, like before. But because they were saved once. When Jesus was talking to the Churches in Revelation. John wrote to them chapter 3:20-22. Jesus said ( Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone or any man hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and with him, and he with Me. ). ThenHe told the Laodiceans Because you are lukewarm , and neither hot or cold I will spue you out of My mouth. I believe if you are a Christian , live like one. I believe that was the reason the forbidden tree was put in the garden of Eden. Was to give man a choice to listen to God and obey Him or turn Him away and do their own thing. ( my opinion ) l don’t believe God wants to make us serve Him. But because we believe in Him and love Him. I do believe God is Omniscience. All knowing. But still wants everyone to Love and serve Him because He died for us. She’d His Blood for us. Payed my penalty for me. But He gave us a choice to except it. Like He gave the children of Israel a chance to look to the brazen serpent , when bitten by a poison snake. Represented sin. The only way they could live was to look on the brazen. Pointing to theCross in The New Testament. The only way we can have Eternal Life , is look to The Cross. Because Jesus is The Door. The only way in to Eternal life. I don’t know category that puts me in. Lol.
Louise Cummings
I don’t believe in predestination. The way some people does. It’s somewhere in the Bible , I didn’t look it up. He said He is not willing for any to perish. But that all should come to repentance. I believe that’s the same place where He said He is Long suffering. Not willing for any should perish. ( what a great God we serve. ). Willing that none should perish. I got up with a song on my mind this week. I hadn’t heard in a long time. It says , There is a Fountain Filled With Blood. Drawn From Immanuel’s Veins. And sinners plunge beneath the flow. Lose all their guilt and shame or stains I cry just writing about it. Immanuel means God with us. But to think of what a Savior that was willing to become man and walk this lowly path that led to Calvary. Where His Blood Red stains. It Broke All The Chains. And Said That ( I) Could Still. Go Free. Even said He would put me inHis Will. Oh what God has in store for those that Love Him. I heard a saying once that’s so true. He takes a black heart ( meaning sin ) and washed it in Red Blood , and washed it White As Snow. Only God could do that.
Mary Ellen Nissley
This article got it backwards. The verse has it the other way around.
John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
John 1:13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
#1. There was first a choice whether or not to receive Him.
#2. Next, all who received, became sons of God.
#3. And then, it says that the process of becoming a son of God is not by our own will, but by God’s.
But notice that first the choice was made to receive, before the birth happened. It is the birth that was of God’s will. Not the choice to receive.
Because it is not God’s will that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
If it were all up to God, every man would repent of their sins.
(I dare you to say it’s not his will for every man to repent!)
But He doesn’t force them to, does he?
Therefore, just because something is God’s will, doesn’t mean it happens. He leaves some things up to us.
Varnel Watson
yeah Ricky Grimsley I dont think so.Christ is Son from Eternity and to Eternity
Ricky Grimsley
Sure this scripture implies synergism since we have “the right” “if we believe” but i dont see how this scripture proves that past eternal sonship.
Charles Page
The salvation context here is synergistic
Varnel Watson
Biblical synergism is the expressed cooperation of God’s will and the will of man working together toward the salvific restoration of the creation
Ricky Grimsley
Im not a Calvinist but its only by grace that we even want to get saved right?
Philippians 2:13 KJVS
[13] For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.
Charles Page
Semi Pelagianism?
Ricky Grimsley
No. Grace alone. It’s by grace you even want to do good or do good. We cant choose to regenerate if the spirit doesnt draw us?
Charles Page
We can’t choose to be regenerated
Regeneration is a monergistic grace
It’s unmerited favor
Tony Conger
How do we even have the option for salvation if we can’t choose it? Obviously no man comes to God unless the Spirit draws him so the question is does man have the ability to say yes or no
Ricky Grimsley
You cant answer if the question isnt asked?
Charles Page
If you hold to the orthodox doctrine of original sin you understand monergistic regeneration
If you reject OS then you are either Pelagianism or semi-pelagianism
Varnel Watson
If Pentecostal / Charismatic theology rejects OSAS how can it advocate for once delivered always delivered (ODAD) i.e. eternal entire sanctification?
Ricky Grimsley
Osas is ridiculous. Saving a soul from death kinda jumps out at me?James 5:19-20 KJVS
[19] Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him; [20] Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.
Varnel Watson
If you were right Ricky Grimsley a born again Christian can very well have a demon b/c neither eternal security nor entire sanctification guarantees anything ???
Varnel Watson
ask a gnostic like RichardAnna Boyce
Mike Partyka
Can be used but there are others that Calvinist use more often.
Varnel Watson
in what way?
Mike Partyka
Troy Day they would position it as not every person has the right to be a child of God or heir of His promises simply by being born. Only those who are born anew spiritually and trust in Christ will have that right. To become children of God we must be born again John 3 1:14. To be born again is an act of grace alone and only God can bring us to new spiritual life
Varnel Watson
Mike Partyka But this is not really monergism is it? Sounds like a mix up with synergism if you ask me