| Terry Wiles |
Interesting that the poll is shaded to not include the Old Testament as part of “all” scripture. That’s pretty standard today. Let’s just rip it out of the Bible. 🙂 |
| Tom Torbeyns |
That’s Marcionism |
| Marc Jackson |
Terry Wiles This poll is designed to show ppls’ secret sins 🙂 You may notice we are 2 for 5 right now |
| Ricky Grimsley |
Lol |
| Ricky Grimsley |
I can some of you right now “ oh the church needs some money. Better dust of Malachi and preach a sermon†completely out of context. |
| Ricky Grimsley |
Yes you have reveled our secret sins to be cheerful givers instead of Pharisees living by a law that was fulfilled and breaking all the other ones that don’t con people into giving more than they can. |
| Terry Wiles |
Hum. Most cheerfully give to everything but the advancement of the Kingdom of God. Credit card companies keep great records for a coming payday. |
| Ricky Grimsley |
You have to mishandle the Bible to prove tithing. IMO |
| Terry Wiles |
IMO, you have to mishandle the Bible to reject tithing. |
| Ricky Grimsley |
What other parts of the Old Testament do you live by? |
| Ricky Grimsley |
If your preaching the sermon…what texts will you use. Also can you provide any other example of tithes not being food other that than Abraham who gave the other 90 percent to the pagan kings? |
| A.J. Bible |
Ricky Grimsley you can’t use Abraham or Issac or Jacob to disapprove tithing. They were not under the old testament law. |
| Ricky Grimsley |
I’m just looking for one scripture where tithes is about money besides Abraham |
| Marc Jackson |
So you keep your money to yourself? |
| Ricky Grimsley |
Lol. I give to my church. It’s actually more than 10 percent. But I’m not obligated by the Bible to ten percent. |
| Marc Jackson |
Matthew 22:21 Jesus said “Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar’s; and to God the things that are God’s. |
| Ricky Grimsley |
That was talking about tAxes not tithes. There’s no way you would preach that as proof. |
| A.J. Bible |
Tithing is not under the law. Tithing predates the Mosaic Law. |
| Ricky Grimsley |
Tithing is also only about food. |
| Marc Jackson |
Matthew 22:21 Jesus said “Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar’s; and to God the things that are God’s. was all about cash but many chose to ignore it |
| Ricky Grimsley |
It’s about taxes. It’s pretty simple. |
| A.J. Bible |
Tithing is about wealth. Giving to God of your increase. |
| Ricky Grimsley |
Of food…..every time but Abraham |
| Ricky Grimsley |
Show me one time it was money? |
| Marc Jackson |
What was Matthew 22:21 Jesus said “Render to Caesar the things that are Caesar’s; and to God the things that are God’s. about? Certainly not about some fish 🙂 |
| Ricky Grimsley |
Lol there is no tithing here. It’s about taxes. |
| Ricky Grimsley |
It actually says that |
| Joshua A. Humphries |
I disagree with Ricky on the food point, but he’s right that Matthew 22:21 is a pretty bad basis for New Testament justification of tithing. I can think of other justifications that I see as eisegeses, but even they have better text justification. |
| Ricky Grimsley |
I’m still waiting for a non- food related tithe verse. Besides Abraham anyway where he gave the other 90 to the pagan king |
| Joshua A. Humphries |
Deuteronomy 14:22-27 makes it clear that people in the agricultural society of the time should give a tenth of the gains they have in food (to support the priests and others involved in the operation of the temple); or if they live too far to get the food to the temple, they should sell their agricultural products to get money to go buy food to give to the people of the temple. By the time of Jesus, plenty of people didn’t farm and the interpretation was that they would use ten percent of their income to feed the people of the temple. |
| Timothy K. Wiebe |
Tithing isn’t NT. Giving everything is. Not ten percent, 100 💯 |
| Terry Wiles |
And of course every good believer gives 100%? Lol. If those who called themselves Christians would simply tithe their local work for the kingdom of God would advance. But they, instead, use higher percentages on their own lusts which in many cases means their worship of some “media ministry†so called. |
| Ricky Grimsley |
Joshua A. Humphries they had money. |
| Joshua A. Humphries |
Yes, which you would have seen if you actually read what I said. Since you didn’t, I’m finished with talking to you about it. |
| Marc Jackson |
Ricky Grimsley knows how to talk people out of talking 🙂 |
| Ricky Grimsley |
Yeah talking here usually doesn’t do much good. Joshua humpries just made up some stuff and then gets offended when I don’t accept it. My point was that tithes was always food even though they also always had money. |
| Ricky Grimsley |
Troy Day only Charles page is better than you at that. |
| Joshua A. Humphries |
Troy, I’ll just repeat what I said earlier since some folks have trouble reading. 😂Deuteronomy 14:22-27 makes it clear that people in the agricultural society of the time should give a tenth of the gains they have in food (to support the priests and others involved in the operation of the temple); or if they live too far to get the food to the temple, they should sell their agricultural products to get money to go buy food to give to the people of the temple. By the time of Jesus, plenty of people didn’t farm and the interpretation was that they would use ten percent of their income to feed the people of the temple. |
| Marc Jackson |
Ricky Grimsley you just dont accept Pentecostal theology 🙂 You got your own thing going on like Charles Page |
| Ricky Grimsley |
Lol |
| Ricky Grimsley |
What about the fatherless, the widow and the stranger. Does he live with your pastor at the church with the offerings you only take up every three years or do we just leave that out. Just throw your bible away if you are gonna misuse it like that. |
| Jerome Herrick Weymouth |
Folks argue all the time on tithing…not enough teaching on divorce. Remember God hates divorce… People who have been saved over 30 years and have been divorced 3 times! |
| Junior Beasley |
New testament tithing…lol new testament teaches missions…New Testament Added Missions, tithing has never changed, never read where Jesus death on the cross removed tithing..Tithing isn’t under the curse of the Law. Offerings for sin is under the curse of the Law..what bible.do you ppl read? Smh |
| Jerome Herrick Weymouth |
Jr., I’m a tither my point was that more people are divorcing and seeking reconciliation and healing in this are…I work at TBN and I hear several prayers requests a day on marriages going through divorces….I think there’s a lack of teaching in the church. |
| Jerome Herrick Weymouth |
P.s. Missions started with the book of Acts and on the day of the resurrection! |
| Marc Jackson |
Ricky Grimsley secret sins revealed while NO one thinks sanctification has weak Bible support Now there’s something |
| Link Hudson |
Not enough explanation. I went with the first two. But there still needs to be clarification. I think first century Jewish Christians tithed in ‘New Testament times’, but that the priestly temple system received the tithes. They were zealous for the law, not later allegorical interpretations of it. Abstinence for alcohol was required of Nazarites. There is good support for that. The poll doesn’t specify exactly in what context it is referring to abstinence, but the American Bible belt doctrine that any non-medicinal moderate consumption of alcohol is sinful is not Biblical.What about divorce and remarriage? The idea that it is allowed? The current loseness of interpretation? The previous practice of trying to adhere more closely to Biblical standards?What about Holiness Sanctification? We should all believe in being holy and being sanctified? Is this about the idea that one has to have one specific experience of being entirely sanctified as a discrete ‘step’ before one can be baptized with the Holy Ghost. |
| Marc Jackson |
I would say this 1 things – according to this POLL the TRINITY is ROCK SOLID I dont care what Ricky Grimsley says 🙂 |
| Ricky Grimsley |
I’m trinitarian. Lol |
| Marc Jackson |
All Trinitarians believe the church fathers 🙂 |
| Ricky Grimsley |
Really so you believe in transubstantiation? |
| Marc Jackson |
not too sure on that one but I certainly dont believe His Body and His Blood are just symbols |
| Ricky Grimsley |
There’s only too choices. It’s just like baptism. Either it saves you or it don’t. |
| Jerome Herrick Weymouth |
Getting wet in the tank doesn’t save you…that teaching was started in the 3rd. Century by Cyripian. He also started the “no salvation outside of the church doctrine.” |
| Ricky Grimsley |
The teaching on divorce is rock solid too |
| Marc Jackson |
wondering why you feel like pointing it out |
| Ricky Grimsley |
Because it’s biblically clear. |
| Marc Jackson |
one clear to some is another clear to others |
| Ricky Grimsley |
There is at least some New Testament scriptures to talk about. Tithing…..not so much. |
| Marc Jackson |
yes thanks – Jared Cheshire just messed the Trinity score 🙂 it all downhill from here |
| Ricky Grimsley |
Well Jared should just read all the salutations of Paul and John 1 :1-18 |
| Jared Cheshire |
Well Ricky Grimsley, should just understand the salutations of John and Paul. |
| Ricky Grimsley |
1 Thessalonians 1:1 KJVS[1] Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus, unto the church of the Thessalonians which is in God the Father and in the Lord Jesus Christ: Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ? |
| Jared Cheshire |
There are no commas in the Greek. It is also the Hebraic form to use poetic parallelism in descriptions. |
| Ricky Grimsley |
So Silva and Timotheus are other names for Paul. I got cha. |
| Jevan Little |
How come those salutation only call the Father “God”? |
| Ricky Grimsley |
Doesn’t matter. It establishes more than one. We can establish deity of Chris from other passages. |
| Jevan Little |
But maybe the distinction there isn’t personal |
| Ricky Grimsley |
You don’t think Paul and Silvanus are different persons. Jk. |
| Ricky Grimsley |
There are two somethings greeting you. Not titles either. |
| Ricky Grimsley |
There would be no conjunction. |
| Ricky Grimsley |
There are at least two wills greeting you. I’m uncomfortable with persons too but the facts remains it’s more than one. |
| Jevan Little |
But only one is called God. The other is Lord. Peter said he was made both Lord and Christ.Could the distinction be about Jesus being human? He is God imcarnate..God in human form |
| Jevan Little |
Orthodox Trinity teaches teaches Christ has 2 wills |
| Ricky Grimsley |
He doesn’t anymore since the resurrection |
| Jevan Little |
Which will doesn’t he have? |
| Ricky Grimsley |
I’m not really orthodox though. I see the trinity as body soul and spirit. Three wills in one body |
| Ricky Grimsley |
Christ no longer has a human will |
| Jevan Little |
Really? You’re a Trinitarian? |
| Ricky Grimsley |
Yep. I work with two upci pastors and we are pretty close to the same but I see distinctions they don’t see. Plus I don’t believe Jesus was just a plan in the mind of the father. The Godhead has always been. |
| Jevan Little |
Father, Son and Spirit are distinct but if he no longer has a human will, how is he still out mediator or high priest? |
| Jevan Little |
Jesus wasn’t just a plan. He was/is God |
| Ricky Grimsley |
Jevan Little will we have human wills after we are resurrected? |
| Marc Jackson |
From the POLL – looks like people want to drink and re-marry while keeping their money from God. Little care toward Trinitarian holiness |
| Ricky Grimsley |
Or people just don’t add to the text like others do |
| Marc Jackson |
Solid teachings are under fire today. Then we ask why a next generation has gone liberal It is our fault Terry Wiles |
| Ricky Grimsley |
Tithing isn’t solid |
| Marc Jackson |
Tithing isn’t solid for stingy people out there |
| Ricky Grimsley |
It’s not solid because you can’t make a case for it from scripture |
| Terry Wiles |
No. It’s the select the scripture we want to apply to me members of this group who are at fault. Just saying…â€all scripture….†|
| Junior Beasley |
New testament tithing…lol new testament teaches missions…New Testament Added Missions, tithing has never changed, never read where Jesus death on the cross removed tithing..Tithing isn’t under the curse of the Law. Offerings for sin is under the curse of the Law..what bible.do you ppl read? Smh |
| Ricky Grimsley |
Again where is tithes ever about money |
| Scotty Searan |
The Bible doesn’t teach total abstinence from Alcohol, but it does teach about being drunk. It does teach about wine being a mocker. It does teach not to be deceived by the wine.You never know the deceitfulness of alcohol till you have been an alcoholic, or lived with one.Now if we as Christians are part of the priesthood, how we can we approach the Holy Of Holies drinking wine. If Jesus Christ is our sacrifice and our high priest, how can we offer our bodies a holy sacrifice drinking wine.Leviticus 10:9 “Do not drink wine nor strong drink, thou, nor thy sons with thee, when ye go into the tabernacle of the congregation, lest ye die: it shall be a statute for ever throughout your generations:”Romans 14:21 “It is good neither to eat flesh, nor to drink wine, nor any thing whereby thy brother stumbleth, or is offended, or is made weak.”This is the responsibility of all. |
| Ricky Grimsley |
Well said Scotty. It would be nice if there were more comments like that. |
| Melvin Shomo |
The divorce and remarriage You cannot stop your spouse from fornication and then they up and leave you.. The act of formication is supposed to give one the right to marry another.Plus under the old covenant it was an abomination to even accept your spouse back in your life again once they had played the harlet.But regardless we serve a forgiving God.King David took his wife back by force from another man.He lusted after another man’s wife and set him up to be killed in battle so he could keep it a secret.In a sense both women David should of left go but he could not undo the wrong he already done,, and to turn both women away would of been the greater sin.The only thing King David had left was to ask for forgiveness and repent within his 💓 heart |
| Marc Jackson |
Shomo I read to about lines 4-5-6 and have a few questions1. where does the Bible say you cant stop your spouce – dont it say love your wife love your husband?2. where does the Bible say “act of formication is supposed to give one the right to marry another.” Says right to leave not re-marry3. where does the Bible say “King David took his wife back by force from another man.” Dont it say he took another man’s wife using his royal pull? Where is the BIBLE in these sayings of yours? Book, chapter and verse please |
| Jevan Little |
Bunch of drunks |
| Melvin Shomo |
Troy Day can you stop your son from taking your gun from behind your back to shoot the people, do you have eyes in the back of your head?The part that you cannot keep your spouse from doing their own thing behind your back. You have no control of. We all have been given the choice to either do good, or do evil. If your spouse does not love the Lord, how are you going to control her, or his freedom to choose good or evil..You don’t need a Bible verse to prove this, common sense explains it for you..Not only this, you could have a job that takes you away from your home weeks at a time. How are you going to keep your spouse from temptation..Where in the scripture does it say that you have to stay celibate because your spouse has chosen to be with another. And where does it say that your marriage is an unparden sin.King David would of had a lot of unpardened sins. Repentance and forgiveness is highly misunderstood by many..King David taken his wife back by force after King Saul gave Michal his daughter to another man to sleep with and to marry..2 Samuel 3:14 And David sent messengers to Ishbosheth Saul’s son, saying, Deliver me my wife Michal, which I espoused to me for an hundred foreskins of the Philistines.15 And Ishbosheth sent, and took her from her husband, even from Phaltiel the son of Laish. You have to remember when Jesus walked the Earth it was not uncommon for a man to have a few wives..Where it mentions a decon having one wife is a literal statement because some had more then one wife back then. Except for fornication dealing with divorce. Mathew 19:9 And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery. As for it being an abomination to take your spouse back again after they have been with another it is in one of the smaller books of the Bible. Right now I can’t think of a word that goes with the verse to find it. |
| Marc Jackson |
So you built your doctrine on a single verse – OK Jesus speaks similar words in Matthew 5:32:“I say to you that anyone who divorces his wife, except on the ground of unchastity, causes her to commit adultery; and whoever marries a divorced woman commits adultery.†|
| Melvin Shomo |
Troy Day is this act an unpardonable sin.Can you prove where it will send a person to hell.Then surely King David is in hell right now |
| Marc Jackson |
Melvin Shomo I have not made any statements to prove Just asking you a few questions |
| Melvin Shomo |
How about a couple that is together that have been married for the forth time in both their lives.. Both find new life in Christ. Are they supposed to put one another away now to make a certain church feel better about their doctrines.The woman at the well is a prime example concerning the Grace of God and forgiveness through Christ our Lord.Now if a Christian goes against the Word of God in rebellion. Like a certain Minister that I know of. He could very well be weighed in the balances. |
| Junior Beasley |
Nope it’s not a unpardonable sin but it is still living in sin. |
| Melvin Shomo |
Michal’s new husband followed behind her crying while she was being taken away from him. Michal had hard feelings towards David afterwards. The scriptures does not tell of it but it shows in her attitude towards David |
| Jerome Herrick Weymouth |
What about a man I knew that been remarried 3 times after he got saved. |
| Melvin Shomo |
So tell me Junior Beasley if a person comes to Christ being married four times does he or she have to divorce to fulfill the whole law or have they been pardoned? |
| Melvin Shomo |
Jerome Herrick Weymouth that man will have to answer to God.My guess is he most likely uses foul language from time to time. |
| Melvin Shomo |
Here we are going to go back to where it said, For by grace are you saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Let’s take a man that has bipolar, or a chemical imbalance. How can we consider this person sane?This is where Grace comes in.The Pentecostal movement anymore is lacking in Deliverance to set the captives free,.. |
| Junior Beasley |
No sir, that’s where healing and deliverance comes in…this man should be set free. That’s where Pentecost is lacking. |
| Melvin Shomo |
As we grow in the Lord, the Lord gives more of himself to us. We then become accountable for what He has given us. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: Luke 12:48If a Christian willingly and deliberately forsakes the commandments of the Lord after he has given them much. They are weighed in the balances to see if they are truly found wanting.. |
| Marc Jackson |
http://www.christianitytoday.com/…/bill-hybels… |
| Melvin Shomo |
Troy Day we had a youth Pastor in our area that fell in love with then 15 year old, it wasn’t exposed until she was 16.He had three kids and was going to try and marry this sixteen year old after he divorced his wife. His wife brought it to the attention of the main Pastor that then called the authorities. The youth Pastor is now in prison. To me this is where the Gifts of the Holy Spirit should be encouraged by all church members to desire after, especially the gift of Prophesy that reveals the secrets of men’s hearts.The way I understand it this affair with this youth Pastor went on for a little over a year |
| Jerome Herrick Weymouth |
Melvin Shomo yes he did when he was alive. |
| Jerome Herrick Weymouth |
Melvin Shomo see what adultery does for you. |
| Link Hudson |
The Bible talks about not accepting back a remarried and redivorced or widowed spouse not a regular adultress spouse. Of course if there were a death penalty for adultery there might be fewer cases where this applies. |
| Melvin Shomo |
Link just look at King David and how God had used him to show forth his Mercy and Grace. We have people today condemning those that are remarried by saying that the Grace and forgiveness of God was better under the Old Covenant then it is under the New Covenant.Christ said that he didn’t come to change the law, but to fulfill the law. Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree |
| Melvin Shomo |
King David was wrong for taking his ex-wife Michal back after she had been with another man. David was wrong when he had lusted after Bathsheba, and then had taken her as his own. Once you mess up you can’t undo the wrong, or you only make matters worse. You can only ask for forgiveness with a a repentive heart and go on with your life. Today there are all sourts coming to Christ that had done much worse then what King David had done.The Assemblies of God had had it for years where there decons have only been married one time.I have seen remaried people in love with the Lord more then the decons with one wife.And they know the Word of God so much more.And as the scripture has said those who have been forgiven of much, love even more. The Assemblies where I attend has lifted the one spouse rule. Which they all should. Back in the Apostles day it was a common practice to have more then one wife. And many came to Christ that had more then one wife. |
| Don Watson |
All of these have strong support in the Bible. DEW |
| Ricky Grimsley |
The point of the poll was to ask what option had the weakest biblical support. The bottom three are explicitly taught. We could all make the case for abstinence of alcohol but we all know deep down it ain’t required or the Bible would just say that. When it comes to tithes you guys really have to hermeneutical gymnastics. You don’t use the same formula to get the other doctrines you live by. Just be honest with yourselves. Quit begging and guilting people to give. |
| Jerome Herrick Weymouth |
Folks hollering about alcohol, IGnor “be sober” scriptures which according to some means “Be free from the influence” |
| Ricky Grimsley |
I don’t even drink. I just use the Bible correctly. |
| Melvin Shomo |
Concerning AlcoholIt all depends on how the one that is supposed to be a reflection of Christ conducts thenselves. Do they choose to be Holy as he is Holy, or do they choose to be just like the rest of the world. Woe unto him that giveth his neighbour drink, that puttest thy bottle to him, and makest him drunken also, that thou mayest look on their nakedness! Thou art filled with shame for glory: drink thou also, and let thy foreskin be uncovered: the cup of the LORD’s right hand shall be turned unto thee, and shameful spewing shall be on thy glory. Habakkuk 2:15-16 |
| Marc Jackson |
Ricky your using the Bible has little Biblical support 🙂 |
Varnel Watson
lets see what you got Nelson Banuchi Philip Williams RichardAnna Boyce
Nelson Banuchi
Don’t get it. There’s no poll on the website and is the OP a question asking us what doctrine has the weakest support?
Varnel Watson
Nelson Banuchi yes – its just a simple question with quite few answers if you care to read through them Melvin Shomo did quite some arguing there too
Varnel Watson
which one is it for you? Jim Price
Jim Price
I honestly don’t know how to respond to this one.
Varnel Watson
Jim Price thats a tough one – genesis creations ?
Denis Herve Mercier
Fales back to the denominations you are in. Fales doctrine starts with theology of men!!!
Varnel Watson
how come Denis Herve Mercier ?
Denis Herve Mercier
Because the devil started denominations.
Varnel Watson
Denis Herve Mercier where it says that in the BIBLE?
RichardAnna Boyce
i would say that doctrine of repentance and turning away from sin, as a condition of saving faith/justification/ being born again/ regeneration has the weakest Biblical support.
Denis Herve Mercier
A big problem is the fear of GOD is gone, who told you that your quote. “repentance and turning away from sin, as a condition of saving faith/justification/ being born again/ regeneration has the weakest Biblical support”. The HOLY Scriptures never said what you said. Again denominations straight from hell. JESUS said obey my commandments if you love me. No love from your quote.
RichardAnna Boyce
Denis Herve Mercier JESUS said obey my commandments if you love me is said to believers; of course 1 John 1:9 repentance is COMPULSORY for believers to earn rewards in the Millennium. Please give me a Bible verse where “repentance and turning away from sin, is a condition of saving faith/justification/ being born again/ regeneration.”
Rick Ferguson
RichardAnna Boyce the devil would love to convince people they don’t need to repent of their sins. Im sure he appreciates your support
RichardAnna Boyce
Rick Ferguson 1 John 1:9 Repentance is COMPULSORY for believers to earn rewards in the Millennium but not Biblical as a CONDITION OF BELIEVING to be saved in the first instance.
Varnel Watson
RichardAnna Boyce your stance is not evangelical per se? Do you propose indulgences for remission of sin?
Philip Williams
Troy Day If this Pentecostal forum is going to accept teachers who teach that salvation doesn’t require repentance, I am ready to exit.
Charles Page
Philip Williams new birth does not require repentance
Philip Williams
Charles Page
“Philip Williams new birth does not require repentance”
Absurd.
Philip Williams
“Everyone who sins breaks the law; in fact, sin is lawlessness. But you know that he appeared so that he might take away our sins. And in him is no sin. No one who lives in him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to sin has either seen him or known him.”
1 John 3:4-6
“We know that anyone born of God does not continue to sin….”
1 John 5:18
Philip Williams
“First to those in Damascus, then to those in Jerusalem and in all Judea, and then to the Gentiles, I preached that they should repent and turn to God and demonstrate their repentance by their deeds.”
Acts 26:20
Philip Williams
“Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.”
Acts 2:38
Philip Williams
“From that time on Jesus began to preach, “Repent, for the kingdom of heaven has come near.””
Matthew 4:17
Varnel Watson
Charles Page is just messing with you Philip
Philip Williams
Troy Day
That isn’t what a minister of the gospel should be doing.
Philip Williams
“But among you there must not be even a hint of sexual immorality, or of any kind of impurity, or of greed, because these are improper for God’s holy people. Nor should there be obscenity, foolish talk or coarse joking, which are out of place, but rather thanksgiving.”
Ephesians 5:3-4
Charles Page
Can’t work for the new birth
RichardAnna Boyce
Philip Williams Repentance is a fruit of believing, for believers (and compulsory for believers to earn rewards in the Millennium); not a condition of believing for unbelievers.
RichardAnna Boyce
Philip Williams Acts 26:20. Paul then defines the geographical sphere of his activity. His stress on “works befitting repentance” emphasizes God’s concern for righteousness. He always wants everyone—whether believers or unbelievers—to do right and grants no one (not even non-believers) permission to sin. The fact that people do not always do the right thing points out their need for forgiveness—one that only comes about by faith in Christ (rather than by good works). In this way salvation comes by faith alone (without any works whatsoever) and yet God, as loving and righteous, still desires right behavior from everyone.
RichardAnna Boyce
Philip Williams Acts 2:38 Repentance is PREPARATION for Palestine Jews to believe; not CONDITION of believing. Repentance provided the answer to their dilemma. They needed to reestablish their relationship with the Messiah they had just believed in. Peter does not here require additional conditions for eternal life. Belief in Jesus counts as the singular condition for guaranteed eternal life in both the OT and the NT. Apparently in the case of those who had had the privilege of seeing Jesus’ earthly ministry (cf. v 22), and yet disbelieved both Him and John (cf. Luke 7:31-35), God required a public identification with Jesus by baptism (and a corresponding rescinding of participation in the sin of that generation). Much like the way God requires confession of sins in order for Christians to maintain and enjoy fellowship with Him, in these unique cases God required repentance and baptism for the initiation of the Christian life.
The Gentile Cornelius and those in his household who believed received the Holy Spirit before their baptism (10:43-48; 11:15-18). Palestinian Jews, however, believed in Jesus and received eternal life before receiving the Holy Spirit (2:37-39). The initial Samaritans who believed—after the Crucifixion—also received the Holy Spirit after their baptism as well as the laying on of hands by the apostles Peter and John (cf. 8:14-17). Repentance, although required for fellowship, did not constitute a condition for eternal life, since Peter recommended it to believers in Jesus already. Likewise, baptism was not a condition for eternal life.
Philip Williams
Charles Page If Troy Day properly represented you just above, I am definitely referring to you.
Philip Williams
“Or do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor men who have sex with men nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.”
1 Corinthians 6:9-10
Philip Williams
Repentance must precede baptism.
RichardAnna Boyce
Philip Williams Matthew 4:17 Jesus’ message, “Repent for the kingdom of heaven is at hand,” is the same message John had preached regarding the imminent coming of God’s earthly kingdom as foretold in the OT (3:2). Israel’s response would determine whether that kingdom would come. Though their response was one of rejection, the kingdom offer made by Jesus was a genuine offer. Preparation for Ko G, not condition of believing in Jesus as personal Savior.
Philip Williams
“When the people heard this, they were cut to the heart and said to Peter and the other apostles, “Brothers, what shall we do?” Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.”
Acts 2:37-38
RichardAnna Boyce
Philip Williams Repentance must precede baptism for believers, but not a condition to believe for unbelievers
Philip Williams
“In the past God overlooked such ignorance, but now he commands all people everywhere to repent.”
Acts 17:30
RichardAnna Boyce
Philip Williams Cut to the heart (unbelievers became believers). Repent and be baptised was work for believers to do to repair fellowship with God, not a condition for unbelievers to believe.
Philip Williams
RichardAnna Boyce when God cast you into Hell, you will certainly believe.
RichardAnna Boyce
Philip Williams Acts 17:30 Paul explains that God did not immediately judge the Gentiles (though He retained His standards of righteousness). Furthermore the apostle said their religious notions were expressions of ignorance. Now, however, God commanded “all men everywhere to repent.” The repentance here refers to forsaking the polytheistic and idolatrous pagan notions of God and seeking a vital and real relationship with the true God. The message here mirrors what Paul and Barnabas exhorted the idolatrous worshipers at Lystra to do (cf. 14:15). While this is not a condition of eternal life, the unbeliever who repents places himself in the proper sphere to understand the saving message (cf. v 27; 10:35).
Philip Williams
“But someone will say, “You have faith; I have deeds.” Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by my deeds. You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that—and shudder.”
James 2:18-19
Denis Herve Mercier
GOD, who is JESUS gave us the HOLY SCRIPTURES, to obey them. We all should understand the Scriptures as HE JESUS wrote them, Not to have a different theology or opinions. JESUS said on this rock HE JESUS made the NT church. So we should believe the same, obey Acts 2:38 the same so on so forth. GOD has the only true doctrine. Denominations have their way the doctrine of men. which is the devil’s way.
2 Timothy 2:15
15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
Nelson Banuchi
Denis Herve Mercier, sometimes when I hear something like your saying, I think to myself, “Are they confusing what they claim is God or Jesus’ theology with their theology?” Or, I think, “Is the call made to believe the same or believe the way they believe?”
Denis Herve Mercier
Nelson Banuchi I obey Scriptures, you obey your builds name, options. The name of GOD is JESUS, you do not need to believe it, your sin.
Varnel Watson
Denis Herve Mercier This makes NO sense I’ve never seen denomination being a doctrine or anything
RichardAnna Boyce
Denis Herve Mercier, Nelson Banuchi, Troy Day, i have stated this many times, inviting a Bible verse that shows “repentance and turning away from sin, is a CONDITION of saving faith/justification/ being born again/ regeneration.” But despite several requests in many OPs i have never received a Bible verse, from memory.
Nelson Banuchi
RichardAnna Boyce First time I see this request.
See Mark 1:15; Luke 13:5.
Nelson Banuchi
Denis Herve Mercier Unfortunately, you don’t seem to know what I believe. If you do know what I believe, then please provide evidence where I said that Jesus is not God.
If you are going to judge, please do so with a right judgment.
RichardAnna Boyce
Nelson Banuchi Mark 1:14-15 Repentance is PREPARATION for Palestine Jews to believe; not CONDITION of believing.
The command to “repent and believe in the gospel” can be understood in three ways.
First, it might be a command to turn from one’s sins and believe the saving message in order to have eternal life. However, the gospel here is the gospel (good news) that the kingdom of God has drawn near (v 14).
Second, repentance might be understood as a synonym of faith. To change one’s mind about Christ is to believe in Him. Therefore in this change-of-mind view Jesus is saying, “Change your mind, that is, believe the gospel.” However, the gospel of the kingdom of God is not the message of John 3:16 or Eph 2:8-9. And in order for the kingdom to come for Israel, national repentance had to occur. Repentance, while always having a change of mind aspect to it, concerns a decision to turn from one’s sins (cf. Mark 1:3-5).
Third, and preferable, is the view that Jesus, like His forerunner (cf. Mark 1:4-5), is calling the nation to turn from their sins and to believe the good news that He is the Messiah who is offering that generation the long-awaited kingdom.
RichardAnna Boyce
Nelson Banuchi Luke 13:5; Luke 13:6 Repentance is a fruit of believing, for believers; not a condition of believing for unbelievers. Jesus affirms that their sin did not exceed that of others in Jerusalem despite a tower falling on them and killing them. He then repeats the warning of v 3. Both true-to-life illustrations make the same point: persistence in sin leads to physical death. In the Jewish War of 66-70 some would die from directly inflicted wounds and others would perish by accident.
13:6. A parable highlighting God’s mercy to Israel follows the warning about repentance. This parable focuses on the positive results or fruit (of repentance) that God expected from the “fig tree,” a figure for the nation of Israel. The activity of “seeking fruit” refers to God’s first century visitation to Israel to fulfill His promises to them.
Nelson Banuchi
RichardAnna Boyce Let me just say, it seems you request is confusing as I took it – “repentance and turning away from sin, is a CONDITION of saving faith/justification/ being born again/ regeneration” – to mean you were asking where in the Bible repentance is the condition for salvation, not where is repentance a condition for faith.
Let me quickly say, repentance is neither a condition for faith nor a fruit of faith, but an aspect and characteristic (not a synonym) of faith; genuine repentance is faith at work. Admittedly, one can perform an act of repentance without faith, although it can be defined more as remorse rather than repentance; however, one cannot exercise genuine faith without repentance, for repentance necessarily involves a change in thinking and behavior from self-pursuits to pursuing God in Christ.
Time does not allow me to further elaborate.
RichardAnna Boyce
Nelson Banuchi i fear we are talking at cross purposes brother. I am saying repentance is not a condition of INITIAL SAVING FAITH. You are saying repentance is (a believer’s) faith at work; which i totally agree :-). The question is do we have to prove our initial saving faith by continual believer’s repentance; and i would personally say no.
Varnel Watson
Nelson Banuchi Gary Micheal Epping I’d say post-Trib rapture has probably LEAST Scriptural support Its a good tickling of ears but thats all – not really in the BIBLE per se
Nelson Banuchi
Troy Day that’s the doctrine I was thinking. I think your right.
Varnel Watson
Nelson Banuchi I’d have to agree Poor support
Denis Herve Mercier
We should preach One GOD, Repentance, Baptized in the name of JESUS CHRIST for the remission of sins, receive the HOLY GHOST speaking in tongues as the SPIRIT gives the utterance. Once people have been preached this death burial and resurrection of our LORD JESUS. They were preached in the right direction Than we preach on HOLINESS. We do not what the heathens do. No more celebrating christmas, trunk or treat, valentines day, Etc. No more baal worship or for some of you pagan holidays. No one can serve baal the devil and JESUS, it is one or the other. You preach dresses or skirts down to the feet, long sleeves to the hand. For men lose fitting pants or slacks long sleeve shirt or long sleeve polo shirt even long sleeve T-shirts. No jewelry on men or women No makeup. No second or third spouse if the first one still is alive. I am stopping here there is much more. If you say that is being a legalist, you are in a devil’s church. A legalist is someone that does not obey the commandment of our LORD JESUS. Call Pastor GINO JENNINGS, listen to the true teaching of the HOLY SCRIPTURES.
Denis Herve Mercier
The word of God teaches us that bare arms and bare legs is nakedness;
Our Lord Jesus was clothed with a garments that went down to his feet [Rev 1:13 a]
“And in the midst of the seven candlesticks one like unto the Son of man, clothed with a garment down to the foot,”
Again: Why is it, that in some Apostolic assemblies they teach that the men and women are to wear long sleeves and cover their arms, like the bible teaches in [Gen. 3:21];
That is good modesty teaching, yet the women are wearing mini skirts, with their bare legs, and [Isa. 47:1-3] teaches us that bare legs is nakedness;
Do men wear shorts to church? Why the double standard?
Women’s dresses and skirts are meant to be long and relatively spacious, not so tight as to hinder their manner of walking [Isa. 3:16] and are essential for feminine modesty and dignity:
Isa 3:16 Moreover the Lord saith, Because the daughters of Zion are haughty, and walk with stretched forth necks and wanton eyes, walking and mincing [H2952] as they go, and making a tinkling with their feet:
H2952 apparently to trip (with short steps) coquettishly: – mince.
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Gen 3:21 Unto Adam also and to his wife did the Lord God make [COATS] of skins, and clothed them.
COATS: H3801 a shirt: – coat, garment, robe. FROM H3802
The same word is used to describe the robes of the priests, which reached to the foot.
Meaning to clothe; the shoulder (proper, that is, upper end of the arm; as being the spot where the garments hang); figuratively side piece or lateral projection or anything: – [arm], corner, shoulder (-piece), side, undersetter.
—————————————–
Isa 47:1 Come down, and sit in the dust, O virgin daughter of Babylon, sit on the ground: there is no throne, O daughter of the Chaldeans: for thou shalt no more be called tender and delicate.
Isa 47:2 Take the millstones, and grind meal: uncover thy locks, make bare the leg, uncover the thigh, pass over the rivers.
Isa 47:3 Thy nakedness shall be uncovered, yea, thy shame shall be seen: I will take vengeance, and I will not meet thee as a man.
“make bare the leg, uncover the thigh” [AND YOU SAY: “WELL MY THIGH IS [NOT] UNCOVERED]”
NOW LETS SEE WHAT THIS THIGH IS.
NOTICE: H7785: the (lower) leg (as a runner): – hip, leg, shoulder, thigh.
IT’S YOUR LEG !!!!!
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Deut 22:5 The woman shall not wear that which pertaineth unto a man, neither shall a man put on a woman’s garment: for all that do so are abomination unto the Lord thy God.
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1Tim 2:9 In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with broided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array;
-Larry Franklin.
Rick Ferguson
Denis Herve Mercier I think you might win “doctrine with weakest Biblical support”
Denis Herve Mercier
Rick Ferguson So you worship christmas. You put an idol in your home and put gifts under it. So the Scriptures below you do not believe? Or do you twist them to fit your needs?
Jer 10:2 Thus saith the Lord, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them.
Jer 10:3 For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe.
Jer 10:4 They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not.
Denis Herve Mercier
Rick Ferguson 2Ch 36:14 Moreover all the chief of the priests, and the people, transgressed very much after all the abominations of the heathen; and [polluted the house of the Lord] which he had hallowed in Jerusalem.
Jer 7:30 For the children of Judah have done evil in my sight, saith the Lord: they have set their [abominations in the house which is called by my name, to pollute it].
Eze 20:39 As for you, O house of Israel, thus saith the Lord God; Go ye, serve ye every one his idols, and hereafter also, if ye will not hearken unto me: but [pollute ye my holy name no more with your [gifts, and with your idols].
“Christmas celebrations are not called for in the Bible. God did not tell us to commemorate the birth of Jesus every year”
Denis Herve Mercier
Rick Ferguson So you might think that women preacher are ok, divorce and remarriage while the first spouse is still alive, etc.
Philip Williams
Some of you are preparing yourself for eternal life — in Hell.
Denis Herve Mercier
The LORD our GOD gave all you men preachers a warning. If you preach from your heart, your feelings, your thoughts, your understanding. Here are some examples. If you believe or agree with women preachers, pagan holidays, worshiping all forms of sports, that means turning on the game on your t,v or going to the game, remarriage with a living spouse etc. All worldly entertainment. All of you will be held accountable by GOD himself, not by me.
John 8:43-45 King James Version (KJV)
43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.
44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
45 And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not.
2 Corinthians 6:17 King James Version (KJV)
17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you.
2 Corinthians 6:14 New King James Version (NKJV)
14 Do not be unequally yoked together with unbelievers. For what [a]fellowship has righteousness with lawlessness? And what [b]communion has light with darkness?
Ezekiel 34:1-3 King James Version (KJV)
34 And the word of the Lord came unto me, saying,
2 Son of man, prophesy against the shepherds of Israel, prophesy, and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord God unto the shepherds; Woe be to the shepherds of Israel that do feed themselves! should not the shepherds feed the flocks?
3 Ye eat the fat, and ye clothe you with the wool, ye kill them that are fed: but ye feed not the flock.
Ezekiel was told by GOD to preach against the preachers that lead the people straight to hell. 34:1-3
Ezekiel 3:18-20 King James Version (KJV)
18 When I say unto the wicked, Thou shalt surely die; and thou givest him not warning, nor speakest to warn the wicked from his wicked way, to save his life; the same wicked man shall die in his iniquity; but his blood will I require at thine hand.
19 Yet if thou warn the wicked, and he turn not from his wickedness, nor from his wicked way, he shall die in his iniquity; but thou hast delivered thy soul.
20 Again, When a righteous man doth turn from his righteousness, and commit iniquity, and I lay a stumbling-block before him, he shall die: because thou hast not given him warning, he shall die in his sin, and his righteousness which he hath done shall not be remembered; but his blood will I require at thine hand.
Ezekiel 33:8-9 King James Version (KJV)
8 When I say unto the wicked, O wicked man, thou shalt surely die; if thou dost not speak to warn the wicked from his way, that wicked man shall die in his iniquity; but his blood will I require at thine hand.
9 Nevertheless, if thou warn the wicked of his way to turn from it; if he do not turn from his way, he shall die in his iniquity; but thou hast delivered thy soul.
If you preachers lead your people wrong, you will be held accountable for every soul that went to hell.
This is the written WORD of GOD. Be warned.
Denis Herve Mercier
DIVORCE AND REMARRIAGE
“Whosoever putteth away his wife, and marrieth another, committeth adultery: and whosoever marrieth her that is put away from her husband committeth adultery” (St. Luke 16:18; Romans 7:1-3; I Corinthians 7:39; St. Mark 10:11-12). We have no right to add any thoughts of our own to such plain statements in order to justify those who have taken a second companion while the first one still lives.
Denis Herve Mercier
We can not be partakers of the religious Theology, that we lead us in err. If you are a title holder and you know that there are wong teachings in your building. Leave by the grace of our LORD JESUS CHRIST. You will be held accountable for all the sins of your man-made doctrines. You say there is nowhere else to go or the title has that much importance to you, repent and flee. Pastor Gino Jennings, First Church of our LORD JESUS CHRIST is of sound Doctrine.
Denis Herve Mercier
Keep on calling GOD’s doctrine a lie.
You that say all pagan day is ok to celebrate. Just put Jesus in it, You are the devil. All that worship all types of football games, sports. dance, smile, shout as you do in your dead church your of the devil. You should all repent before you are cast in the lake of fire. Not my words, JESUS preach these words.
2 Corinthians 6:14-18 (KJV)
14 Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?
15 And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel?
16 And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
17 Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you.
18 And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.
Colossians 2:21-23 (KJV)
21 (Touch not; taste not; handle not;
22 Which all are to perish with the using;) after the commandments and doctrines of men?
23 Which things have indeed a shew of wisdom in will worship, and humility, and neglecting of the body: not in any honour to the satisfying of the flesh.
Matthew 23:13-15 (KJV)
13 But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.
14 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye devour widows’ houses, and for a pretence make long prayer: therefore ye shall receive the greater damnation.
15 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye compass sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, ye make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves. This is talking about you-you devils from hell Yes you today Repent.
Jeremiah 17:5 (KJV)
5 Thus saith the Lord; Cursed be the man that trusteth in man, and maketh flesh his arm, and whose heart departeth from the Lord.
Jeremiah 23:1-2 (KJV)
23 Woe be unto the pastors that destroy and scatter the sheep of my pasture! saith the Lord.
2 Therefore thus saith the Lord God of Israel against the pastors that feed my people; Ye have scattered my flock, and driven them away, and have not visited them: behold, I will visit upon you the evil of your doings, saith the Lord.
Denis Herve Mercier
Not one of you has been able to show your doctrine, word for word exactly right with GOD. You gave yourselves titles or other people in false doctrine gave you titles. Prove with the correct Scriptures anything above to prove GOD’s doctrine wrong. Give the books Name, chapter, and verse, no opinions. No, explanation with your owe words Bible. So you think women can preach, prove it with Scriptures, it better say a woman preached, a woman is a pastor, etc. Remarriage while the first spouse is still living, give book chapter and verse. Pagan holiday any of them, give book chapter and verse. Now let us see who is in the correct doctrine. If you can not Repent turn in your false papers that say you are a whatever.
Varnel Watson
Charles Page can you defend your doctrine with BIBLE ?
Denis Herve Mercier
Here is an example in the book, chapter, and verse on marriage and divorce with a living spouse.
Matthew 19:6-9 (KJV)
6 Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.
7 They say unto him, Why did Moses then command to give a writing of divorcement, and to put her away?
8 He saith unto them, Moses because of the hardness of your hearts suffered you to put away your wives: but from the beginning it was not so.
9 And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery.
Romans 7:2-3 (KJV)
2 For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of her husband.
3 So then if, while her husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man.
1 Corinthians 7:39 (KJV)
39 The wife is bound by the law as long as her husband liveth; but if her husband be dead, she is at liberty to be married to whom she will; only in the Lord.
Luke 16:18 (KJV)
18 Whosoever putteth away his wife, and marrieth another, committeth adultery: and whosoever marrieth her that is put away from her husband committeth adultery.
Mark 10:2-12 (KJV)
2 And the Pharisees came to him, and asked him, Is it lawful for a man to put away his wife? tempting him.
3 And he answered and said unto them, What did Moses command you?
4 And they said, Moses suffered to write a bill of divorcement, and to put her away.
5 And Jesus answered and said unto them, For the hardness of your heart he wrote you this precept.
6 But from the beginning of the creation God made them male and female.
7 For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and cleave to his wife;
8 And they twain shall be one flesh: so then they are no more twain, but one flesh.
9 What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.
10 And in the house his disciples asked him again of the same matter.
11 And he saith unto them, Whosoever shall put away his wife, and marry another, committeth adultery against her.
12 And if a woman shall put away her husband, and be married to another, she committeth adultery.
Matthew 5:31-32 (KJV)
31 It hath been said, Whosoever shall put away his wife, let him give her a writing of divorcement:
32 But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery.
1 Corinthians 7:11-13 (KJV)
11 But and if she depart, let her remain unmarried or be reconciled to her husband: and let not the husband put away his wife.
12 But to the rest speak I, not the Lord: If any brother hath a wife that believeth not, and she be pleased to dwell with him, let him not put her away.
13 And the woman which hath an husband that believeth not, and if he be pleased to dwell with her, let her not leave him.
Matthew 19:8-9 (KJV)
8 He saith unto them, Moses because of the hardness of your hearts suffered you to put away your wives: but from the beginning it was not so.
9 And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery: and whoso marrieth her which is put away doth commit adultery.
Romans 7:3 (KJV)
3 So then if, while her husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man.
Hebrews 13:4 (KJV)
4 Marriage is honourable in all, and the bed undefiled: but whoremongers and adulterers God will judge.
Denis Herve Mercier
Here is an example in the book, chapter, and verse on women preachers, women bishops, deaconess, all lie from hell.
1 Timothy 3:1-5 (KJV)
3 This is a true saying, if a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work.
2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;
3 Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous;
4 One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity;
5 (For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?)
John 3:32-34 (KJV)
32 And what he hath seen and heard, that he testifieth; and no man receiveth his testimony.
33 He that hath received his testimony hath set to his seal that God is true.
34 For he whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God: for God giveth not the Spirit by measure unto him.
1 Timothy 5:2 (KJV)
2 The elder women as mothers; the younger as sisters, with all purity.
1 Timothy 2:12-14 (KJV)
12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve.
14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.
1 Corinthians 11:3 (KJV)
3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.
Numbers 27:15-17 (KJV)
15 And Moses spake unto the Lord, saying,
16 Let the Lord, the God of the spirits of all flesh, set a man over the congregation,
17 Which may go out before them, and which may go in before them, and which may lead them out, and which may bring them in; that the congregation of the Lord be not as sheep which have no shepherd.
Isaiah 3:12 (KJV)
12 As for my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them. O my people, they which lead thee cause thee to err, and destroy the way of thy paths.
Isaiah 9:16-17 (KJV)
16 For the leaders of this people cause them to err; and they that are led of them are destroyed.
17 Therefore the Lord shall have no joy in their young men, neither shall have mercy on their fatherless and widows: for every one is an hypocrite and an evildoer, and every mouth speaketh folly. For all this his anger is not turned away, but his hand is stretched out still.
Who are they allowed to teach…
Titus 2:1-5 (KJV)
2 But speak thou the things which become sound doctrine:
2 That the aged men be sober, grave, temperate, sound in faith, in charity, in patience.
3 The aged women likewise, that they be in behaviour as becometh holiness, not false accusers, not given to much wine, teachers of good things;
4 That they may teach the young women to be sober, to love their husbands, to love their children,
5 To be discreet, chaste, keepers at home, good, obedient to their own husbands, that the word of God be not blasphemed.
NOTICE: *[HE PREACHED]
Mar_1:39 And HE PREACHED in their synagogues throughout all Galilee, and cast out devils.
Mar_2:2 And straightway many were gathered together, insomuch that there was no room to receive them, no, not so much as about the door: and HE PREACHED the word unto them.
Luk_4:44 And HE PREACHED in the synagogues of Galilee.
Act_8:40 But Philip was found at Azotus: and passing through HE PREACHED in all the cities, till he came to Caesarea.
Act_9:20 And straightway HE PREACHED Christ in the synagogues, that he is the Son of God.
Act_17:18 Then certain philosophers of the Epicureans, and of the Stoicks, encountered him. And some said, What will this babbler say? other some, He seemeth to be a setter forth of strange gods: because HE PREACHED unto them Jesus, and the resurrection.
NOW SEE IF YOU CAN FIND A *[SHE PREACHED]
Varnel Watson
Denis Herve Mercier my questions on what chapter verse was ti Lyndsey Dunn who has shown a very poor Scriptural support on progressive sanctification as a doctrine and where getting sanctification as set apart?
Denis Herve Mercier
Troy Day I posted a lot. if you personally believe in it’s ok to celebrate Pagan holidays, women preacher, ok to remarry with a living spouse. Answer those first. Let us see who is the biblical faith. With book chapter and verse.
Varnel Watson
Denis Herve Mercier Come again? – my question was about sanctification What are you talking about?
Charles Page
Troy Day yes, certainly
Varnel Watson
Charles Page lets see it then
Charles Page
Troy Day ok
RichardAnna Boyce
Philip Williams James 2:18-19 James anticipates his readers’ excuse by introducing the words of an imaginary objector. Such alleged objectors were a common stock-in-trade for writers on morals in James’s day, and here he employs this well-known literary foil. The entirety of vv 18-19 belong to this hypothetical speaker.
The exact extent and meaning of the objector’s words have long been a problem to commentators. The NKJV follows a common understanding in its punctuation of vv 18-19. The words, “You have faith and I have works,” are enclosed in quotation marks by the NKJV and this signals that these words alone are taken as the words of an objector. (What they are an objection to has puzzled many commentators.) The remaining words of v 18 and those of v 19 are taken by the NKJV as the reply of James, though it is by no means clear how they answer the words attributed to the objector. But all punctuation in our English Bibles is the work of editors, since the original manuscript of James would probably have had little or none. But the text is only correctly understood when the entirety of vv 18-19 (starting with, You have faith…) is assigned to the objector and none of it assigned to James.
In vv 18-19 the specific literary format James uses was familiar from the Greek diatribe, which was a learned and argumentative form of discourse. The form employed in vv 18-20 might be called the “objection/reply format.” Words such as James’s “but someone will say” (v 18) are used to introduce the objection and, when the objection has been stated, a sharp rejoinder is begun with words like James’s “but do you want to know, O foolish man” (v 20). This same format used by James also occurs in Rom 9:19-20 and 1 Cor 15:35-36. The view of many writers that James’s reply has to begin at v 18 b ignores the manifest structural signals of James’s text., These writers have failed to produce any comparable text in the relevant literature. This writer regards it as certain that the objector’s words extend to the end of v 19.
But what does the objection mean? Since most Greek manuscripts read the word “by” (ek) in place of the familiar word “without” (chœris) in v 18, the reading “by” is preferred here. The objector’s statement may then be given as follows, retaining the Greek word order more exactly than does the NKJV:
But someone will say: “You have faith and I have works. Show me your faith from [ek] your works, and I will show you, from [ek] my works, my faith. You believe that there is one God; you do well. The demons also believe, and tremble” (vv 18-19, author’s translation).
The argument which these words express appears to be a reductio ad absurdum (reducing someone’s claims to absurdity). It is heavy with irony. “It is absurd,” says the objector, “to see a close connection between faith and works. For the sake of argument, let’s say you have faith and I have works. Let’s start there. You can no more start with what you believe and show it to me in your works, than I can start with my works and demonstrate what it is that I believe.” The objector is confident that both tasks are impossible. The impossibility of showing one’s faith from one’s works is now demonstrated (so the objector thinks) by this illustration: “Men and demons both believe the same truth (that there is one God), but their faith does not produce the same response. Although this article of faith may move a human being to ‘do well,’ it never moves the demons to ‘do well.’ All they can do is tremble. Faith and works, therefore, have no built-in connection at all. The same creed may produce entirely different kinds of conduct. Faith cannot be made visible in works!” With this supposedly unanswerable claim, the objector rests his case.
No doubt James and his readers had heard this argument before. It was precisely the kind of defensive approach people might take when their orthodoxy was not supported by good deeds. They might say, “Faith and works are not really related to each other in the way you say they are, James. So don’t criticize the vitality of my faith because I don’t do such and such a thing.”
RichardAnna Boyce
Philip Williams 1 Corinthians 6:9-10 Paul points the Corinthians to fact that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God. The word unrighteous has no definite article in the Greek, unlike v 1 where the same word appears. This serves to emphasize character rather than position. It can describe both believer and unbeliever who lack godly character. Unbelievers will neither inherit nor enter the kingdom. Unrighteous believers will enter but not inherit.
Some think Paul is referring to believers who because of the practice of unrighteous deeds lose their salvation. Others say it is referring to those who prove they were never true believers in the first place. Both positions equate inheriting the kingdom of God with entering God’s kingdom. However, in the near context Paul is talking to believers who would suffer loss at the Bema (cf. 3:13-15), but not the impossible loss of eternal salvation. They have eternal life that can never be lost.
Yet these believers will not inherit the kingdom of God because of their practice of unrighteousness. The word inherit (kl¢ronomeœ) is often used in the OT to express the wider meaning of entering into full possession of a family inheritance. In other words inheriting the kingdom of God is not equivalent to entering God’s kingdom. To inherit simply means to possess and it includes ruling with Christ (cf. 1 Cor 4:8; 2 Tim 2:12). Both the OT and NT illustrate the possibility that some believers may lose their inheritance (Gen 22:15-18; 27:38-40; 2 Tim 2:12; Heb 12:16-17). Therefore Paul informs the Corinthians that they could renounce their inheritance privilege by their sinful lifestyles. They could live in the future kingdom but not possess it if they continued to live in their sins.
He told them not to be deceived about those who are fornicators (a general term describing one who practices sexual immorality), idolaters (idolatry is the committing of unlawful deeds related to an idol), adulterers (sexual sins related to marriage), homosexuals (men who allow themselves to be misused homosexually), sodomites (male homosexuals). Neither should they be deceived concerning those who practice sins against others: thieves, covetous, drunkards, revilers, extortioners. Believers who fail to live for God will not possess the kingdom of God.
Philip Williams
The spider webs woven by those who wish to avoid the truth require many words to entangle those who would bother to read them. It’s a characteristic of all liars.
Varnel Watson
What doctrinal issue today is the most pressing for the church?
Isara Mo
Troy Day
Demonology
Jamie Brown
Brother you always post these things and I can’t see any sort of article or anything does anyone else have this issue or just me?
Varnel Watson
Jamie Brown click on link to read the whole discussion
Varnel Watson
pre-Trib rapture has strongest Biblical support of course
Chris Westerman
There are plenty who would disagree for various reasons. But that would be a very long discussion.
Varnel Watson
which ONE? Steve Phifer Peter Vandever Billy Monroe Poff
Varnel Watson
I’d say that would be doctrine of oneness Jevan Little Jared Cheshire http://www.pentecostaltheology.com/doctrine-of-oneness/
Varnel Watson
this one would come as #2 for me – practically NO BIBLE to back it up http://www.pentecostaltheology.com/not-afraid-of-the-antichrist-what-if-everybody-was-left-behind/
Varnel Watson
THANK YOU for any good suggestions
Toni Armstrong
All I see is a bunch of names???
Varnel Watson
with their opinions about the OP right next to their names 🙂
Toni Armstrong
Troy Day
No sorry even if I go to view original post I only see names
Varnel Watson
Toni Armstrong REFRESH then or get a bigger screen Reads clearly on our end
Terry Wiles Interesting that the poll is shaded to not include the Old Testament as part of “all” scripture. That’s pretty standard today. Let’s just rip it out of the Bible. 🙂
Tom Torbeyns That’s Marcionism
Marc Jackson Terry Wiles This poll is designed to show ppls’ secret sins 🙂 You may notice we are 2 for 5 right now
Ricky Grimsley Lol
Ricky Grimsley I can some of you right now “ oh the church needs some money. Better dust of Malachi and preach a sermon� completely out of context.
Ricky Grimsley Yes you have reveled our secret sins to be cheerful givers instead of Pharisees living by a law that was fulfilled and breaking all the other ones that don’t con people into giving more than they can.
Terry Wiles Hum. Most cheerfully give to everything but the advancement of the Kingdom of God. Credit card companies keep great records for a coming payday.
Ricky Grimsley You have to mishandle the Bible to prove tithing. IMO
Terry Wiles IMO, you have to mishandle the Bible to reject tithing.
Ricky Grimsley What other parts of the Old Testament do you live by?
Jo Kothenbeutel
That 1 day is to a 1,000 years to God.
1 verse
Dana Salomon
Jo Kothenbeutel
2 witnesses (Psalm 90:4; 2 Peter 3:8, completely in context as discussion of the end of time) and knowing that the plan of redemption was laid Creation week. No astronomical body determines a 7 day week. God did it and established the 7th day as a day of rest in order to give us hope that our king is coming to reign the 7th millenia. If you are not a conceptual ‘big picture’ thinker, you have to focus on the meaning of a 7 day week knowing that he gave the time measurements (placement of sun, moon, and stars ‘for times and for seasons.’
Varnel Watson
whats SO NOT Biblical there?
Dana Salomon
Annihilation of some of the dead. It would be completely wrong if the doctrine taught against hell which definitely exists by the testimony of Christ himself as well as other prophets.
Varnel Watson
you mean before or after resurrection
Dana Salomon
Troy Day
Everyone is judged, then both death and hell are cast into the lake of fire.
I wonder what entails death.
Dana Salomon
Troy Day
Oops, I think I just realized this was not a general question but one where specifically Pentecostal doctrines are being discussed.
Bows out. Here.
Varnel Watson
Dana Salomon ANY Biblical doctrine
Dana Salomon
Troy Day
Okay!
Cody Ashton Hitchen
Most of Pentecostal teaching ?
Varnel Watson
plenty of Support for that You must be reading some baptisto-calvinator BIBLE
Cody Ashton Hitchen
Troy Day “Baptisto-calvinator Bible” why is it that those who argue against reformed theology can only do so in light of mockery and strawmen?
Varnel Watson
Cody Ashton Hitchen you must NOT read the same BIBLE Perhaps you read the Bible of RichardAnna Boyce Pentecost is IN the BIBLE plenty Just read it sometimes
Cody Ashton Hitchen
Troy Day I never said Pentecost wasn’t in the bible. But Pentecostal distinctives should be on that list
Mike Cresswell
The welsh revival was similar … started in, wait for it, a Calvinistic Methodist church at a youth night! Imagine trying to get your theological doctrinal head around that. But that didn’t bother God none … it started a short sharp shock of a revival that changed welsh mining communities – tough people, change communities and a nation and reverberated through the British Empire. So, I’m not too sure God gets as hot under the collar about our theological doctrine – both made up words, as we do.
We all have doctrine that is in need of an upgrade … maybe living one another and grace are considerations on this occasion – incoming
Varnel Watson
What is a Calvinistic Methodist church ? that makes absolutely NO sense Steve Losee Neil Steven Lawrence
Steve Losee
agreed; Wesley was Arminian
Varnel Watson
and VERY VERY much anti-calvinistic Seems to me Mike Cresswell dont know socialism from arminianism
Steve Losee
blab-it-&-grab-it
Bruce Butler
Steve Losee that’s it
Varnel Watson
do you mean name it claim it? what is it
Steve Losee
yes; but that’s my own label for them
Dana Salomon
The belief that everyone has to speak in tongues as a sign of salvation is not biblical.
Paul explicitly states that he would like them all to experience it, implying that everyone won’t.
Toni Armstrong
Dana Salomon
Not according to Acts. Paul was speaking of the Spiritual gifts not the gift of the Holy Spirit by which we receive the Spiritual gifts are given as he wills
Varnel Watson
ACTS 2 in the UPPER room – was there ANYone not speaking in tongues there Or did they hear them ALL speaking in tongues ?
Dana Salomon
Toni Armstrong
But in that portion they were also speaking in foreign languages, not between them and the Father. So, if you use that portion to insist that everyone speak in tongues, the tongues must be a language to reach out to a nation. Right?
Dana Salomon
Troy Day
But in that portion they were also speaking in foreign languages, not between them and the Father. So, if you use that portion to insist that everyone speak in tongues, the tongues must be a language to reach out to a nation. Right?
Toni Armstrong
Dana Salomon
No I don’t believe so. On the day of Pentecost they that heard each his own language did so to be witnesses that it was the Holy Spirit as Peter explained when he stood up and addressed the crowd in the common language of the day. There isn’t a scripture that says speaking in tongues is to preach
Dana Salomon
Toni Armstrong
Peter preached and they all heard in their own language.
Toni Armstrong
Dana Salomon
No they heard each there own language when those in the upper room received the Holy Spirit. Peter stood up and addressed them in the common language of the day which was probably Greek, when they asked what was happening.
Dana Salomon
Toni Armstrong
You mean Yes. Because that’s what I said too. Methinks you are just being contrary.
Toni Armstrong
Dana Salomon
You said Peter preached and they all heard in their own language? Are you saying that Peter stood up and preached and the greek guy heard Peter’s message in Greek The Egyptian heard Peter’s preaching in Egyptian and so on?
Dana Salomon
Toni Armstrong
That seems to be what is being communicated.
Toni Armstrong
Dana Salomon
No they each heard his own language when the Holy Spirit fell on those in the upper room and they all began to speak in tongues Eg. The guy from Greece heard one of the Apostles praising God in that language The guy from Egypt heard another of the Apostles praising God in his Egyptian language.
When Peter stood up and addressed the whole crowd explaining that it was the fulfillment of prophecy of the out pouring of the Holy Spirit he did so in the common language of the day which all understood Most likely Greek or Aramaic
Dana Salomon
Toni Armstrong
True. Why are you going in circles? I’m getting dizzy.
Toni Armstrong
Dana Salomon
You said Peter was speaking in whatever language the hearer spoke So he spoke and it sounded Egyptian to the Egyptian and Greek to the person from Greece and I disagreed and explained it
Bottom line on the day of Pentecost they who witnessed the Apostles speaking in tongues were for witnesses that it was the Holy Spirit and not once is speaking in tongues used to preach The purpose of tongues is to be able to pray in the Spirit and build yourself up spiritually
Dana Salomon
Toni Armstrong
I’m pretty sure I said they heard in their language AFTER first discussing it in the context of the purpose of tongues.
But anyway,
I do not see the practice of prayer languages directly taught or encouraged anywhere in scripture and am aware of only one place where it MAY be implied. The first verses of 1 Corinthians 13.
It is definitely addressed as far as speaking in unknown tongues though at Pentecost, it appears that it was more to do with hearing.
I wonder if this is because faith is hearing the Word, not about speaking our desires.
Toni Armstrong
Dana Salomon
Romans 8:26-27
[26]Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.
[27]And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.
Jude 1:20
[20]But ye, beloved, building up yourselves on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost,
Ephesians 6:18
[18]Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints;
Dana Salomon
Toni Armstrong
Yes, He is our advocate.
If folks have experienced Him speaking things they don’t know at first, it would be beneficial as He interprets to them.
Paul made clear that such tongues are to be private and not public, because they do not benefit anyone who does not have them interpreted.
Most of what happens in churches where tongues are prevelant disobeys the clear instruction to have interpreters and to speak one at a time.
Toni Armstrong
Dana Salomon
Speaking in tongues edifies the user Speaking in tongues In church must be interpreted so the whole congregation can be edified
Dana Salomon
Toni Armstrong
True, scripture.
Robert Gilland
tongues as a prayer language
Varnel Watson
what do you mean by that? TONGUES are IN the BIBLE are you against prayer now or what?
Dana Salomon
Robert Gilland
I do agree and then I am careful because there is 1 Corinthians 13 where he mentions, the ‘tongues of angels’ but I am also wondering why such a thing would not be private, if genuine, since we are told to pray in a closet and in another portion Paul specifically says if someone speaks in an unknown language it does not benefit the body (local fellowship).
Much is syllabalic and not necessarily spiritual, and even demonic (especially if accompanied by jerking uncontrollably or screaming etc.)
Robert Gilland
Troy Day Indeed Tongues are in the bible as a missionary gift. They are for the reaching of the unreached. Prayer is for the talking to God.
Varnel Watson
Robert Gilland says no where they are a missionary gift Not even in one verse Show us where ? Show us where it says tongues are for reaching the unreached ?
Robert Gilland
Acts 2, literally introduces and defines the Gift of Tongues.
Varnel Watson
HERE are a FEW
Predestination in the Calvin way is NOT in the BIBLE
GOD does NOT predestined ppl to hell as RichardAnna Boyce will tell ya Free grace teachings are also heretical and with 0 Scriptural support
Post-mil is not in the BIBLE a0mil is literally NOT in the BIBLE and to form a-mil theology you have to cut off Rev 20
what else? – progressive sanctification has little to NO Bible support either
the Church NOT going to heaven or heaven not being literal is against the BIBLE too
Millennium without Christ present on earth physically
to name a FEW this morning
RichardAnna Boyce
Troy, it is a lie to say that i teach God predestines ppl to hell; and i fear for you as God judges you for deliberate lies brother
Varnel Watson
RichardAnna Boyce it is a lite to say that you teach anything GOD teaches right this moment It is still unclear what calvinistic free grace is and where it will take ppl for eternity
Varnel Watson
Dana Salomon which portion is that you are referring to? No prayer language is NOT in the BIBLE It was designed by charismatics when they entered classical Pentecostalism. Classical Pentecostals differ and interpret tongues 2 ways – initial evidence of the baptism or one of the 9 gifts of the Spirit mentioned in 1 Cor 12 and described in detail ni 1 Cor 14 Apart from that I am not too sure where private tongues or private interpretation came in Charismtism BUT you are not going to hear many classical Pentecostals referred to any prophetic word as private Larry Dale Steele Neil Steven Lawrence
Dana Salomon
Troy Day
I agree that ‘prayer language’ has very sketchy biblical support if any. That’s what I was saying. If it is at all anywhere, it may possibly be derived from the beginning of the love chapter: ‘if I speak with the tongues of men or of angels and have not charity, I am nothing.’
I agree completely that unless tongues are helpful for communication by an interpreter, Paul said we need to keep quiet.
Varnel Watson
Dana Salomon but it is hardly a doctrine with least Biblical support Predestination to eternal hell surpasses it by far
Dana Salomon
Troy Day
True. In that context certainly.
Dana Salomon
Troy Day
Predestined as far as earthtime where we see things unfold chronologically, is more tied to a fulfilled purpose God created us for.