| Chris Clark |
Absolutely not. |
| Bernhard Röckle |
No – only Jesus is necessary! |
| Lloyd A Sanders Jr. |
No, but for spiritual growth. |
2 |
| Jim Kingsnorth |
No way |
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| Carl Murphy |
Nope, it is the least of all spiritual gifts. I also do not think them as the one definitive act of being filled with the Spirit |
| David Lewayne Porter |
I believe a thorough study of the word and you will see that you just maybe confused about the indwelling of the Spirit that we receive at salvation (the Spirit of the Son) and the (filling) at our baptism in The Holy Ghost.And then there is a distention in us being filled at the HOLY GHOST baptism and the gift.I can provide the scriptures for all of these. |
| Charles Page |
Carl, what is the greatest spiritual gift? |
| Carl Murphy |
To love others as Jesus loves you |
| Carl Murphy |
So one can be indwelled but not filled? |
| Charles Page |
that is a command not an operation of a gift. You have stated that tongues IS the least of the gifts. |
| David Lewayne Porter |
We are indwelt at Salvation by the Spirit of His Son making us Sons of Adoption (that is for us personally)Gal 4:4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law, 5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons. 6 And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father. 7 Wherefore thou art no more a servant, but a son; and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ.The Filled is to over flowing (Baptism) is for those around us – for us to witness – Acts 1:8 & Acts 4:31). The baptism according to scripture was always accompanied by evident signs (mostly tongues)Acts 2:4, Acts 10:46, 19:6,Acts 2:33 says we see and hear (audible and visible). Acts 8:18 & 19 Simon knew they received (how)? He must have seen and/or heard as stated by Peter in Acts 2:33.So we can be in dwelt but not filled.The condition to following completely to all God has for us. The issue is the church is not teaching and praying new believers thru to all God has for them – Acts 5:32.Acts 2:38 Salvation and the Baptism SHOULD happen at the same time or very close together, but the church fails to help them yield to all of God’s supply. There is why we have confusion on this topic in this generation. |
1 |
| David Lewayne Porter |
Salvation – no, Holy Spirit / Ghost baptism to filling – yes |
| Paul DeHaan |
No way. |
|
| Ricky Grimsley |
Absolutly not |
| Mary Neph Dinnan |
NO! |
|
| Bibliata Net |
I am not too sure if you need the Holy Ghost to go to heaven, but for myself I wouldnt go to the store without the Holy Ghost… |
| Corey Forsyth |
That sounded like a quote straight out of CoG Preaching 101. HAHA |
| Bibliata Net |
actually R.W. Schambach told me that ones |
1 |
| Corey Forsyth |
Are you serious? He was one of my favorites growing up. |
| Bibliata Net |
yap – he still is to many 🙂 |
| Ricky Grimsley |
You have to have the holy ghost to go to heaven just not to be baptized in the holy ghost. |
| Tim Cushen |
How exactly does one get the Holy Ghost without the baptism of the Holy Ghost? |
1 |
| Mark Gonzales |
The baptism in the holyGhost is receiving the holy ghost. |
| Ricky Grimsley |
No it isnt. The spirit indwells you when you get saved. Being baptized is when the spirit comes upon you for service. The disciples were saved already. Luke 10:20 KJVS[20] Notwithstanding in this rejoice not, that the spirits are subject unto you; but rather rejoice, because your names are written in heaven. |
| Tim Cushen |
I would respectfully disagree. |
| Ricky Grimsley |
In fact how many times did the disciples “recieve the holy ghost? Once when they got baptized? Once when he gave them power over spirits? Once when he breathed on them and said “receive ye the holy ghost? And then on the pay of pentecost? did they get baptized four times? |
| Tim Cushen |
They received the Holy Ghost on the day of Pentecost. |
1 |
| Ricky Grimsley |
So why were their names written in heaven if they werent saved yet. Luke 10:20 KJVS[20] Notwithstanding in this rejoice not, that the spirits are subject unto you; but rather rejoice, because your names are written in heaven. |
| Tim Cushen |
There is plenty of tradition of an “indwelling” spirit without the baptism of the Holy Ghost but no scripture to back it up.The New Testament method of conversion is found in Peter’s instruction in Acts 2:38 |
| Ricky Grimsley |
I just backed it up. There were saved already. They “received” the holy ghost like 3 times at least before they got “baptized”. Say what you want but believing you have to speak in tongues to be saved is nonsense. |
| Tim Cushen |
That’s your opinion and you are welcome to it. I prefer to stand on scripture |
| Ricky Grimsley |
Good luck finding one that says “thou shall speak in tongues and be saved”. Look i understand people need the baptism. Every christian should get it. But it isnt a requirement. Are you really telling me that great men of God like adrian rodgers went to hell? This is the same kinda thinking that got pretrib rapture nonsense started. People will keep sinning unless they think jesus can come any minute and so on. This is the same way “well people cant really make it through life without backsliding unless they get baptized in the spirit and speak with tongues.” Nonsense. While it most certainly helps, its pretty arrogant. Every debate i have ever heard on the subject oneness people get owned. Even david bernard, who i greatly respect, cant hold up the case under cross-examniation b |
| Tim Cushen |
Jesus said without my spirit you are none of mine. There is no other scriptural method to receive His spirit. As far as great men going to hell, I am not Amy man’s judge. I simply point out the salvation plan set forth by the bible. |
| Ricky Grimsley |
So what religion was jesus preaching about on earth. |
| Tim Cushen |
He was not preaching religion. He was preaching relationship. As far as David Bernard being owned….lol |
| Tim Cushen |
Simply….either one must have the spirit of God to be saved or not. If not then your theory is correct. If so, then there is no scripture indicating an “indwelling” spirit other than the baptism of the Holy Ghost |
| Mark Gonzales |
this is a video of how peter said to be baptised and you will receive |
| Mark Gonzales |
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wWQjVbhq-UE |
| Mark Gonzales |
he receives the holy spirit. How do we know? by the evidence of speaking in tongues |
| Mark Gonzales |
ACTS 2:38 |
1 |
| Mark Gonzales |
2 baptisms . In the water as seen and in the spirit as seen. The spirit baptism is from above and it goes in through the mouth filling your belly until it comes out through the mouth and then the spirit gives you the utterance. Its spiritual water . First is bealive then accompany it with actions, faith without works is dead. He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.(john 7:38) |
| Mark Gonzales |
Those two baptisms enter you into the Kingdom! If you arent speaking in tongues and didnt received it after the water baptism , Only God knows why. I would be worried and seek God for it. I miself received it before I was baptised, I spoke in tongues and that told me I was baptised with the holy spirit. My sister received the holyspirit after the water baptism. Sometimes its faith! |
| Ricky Grimsley |
Sometimes its incoherent nonsense. Salvation happens when the spirit draws you and you have faith, confess your sins, repent and acknowledge jesus as lord. Water baptism is an outward work that keeps you clean before God by doing his will. Just like communion, feetwashing, praying, reading the word, loving your neighbor and so on. Saying that people have to speak in tongues or be baptized in jesus name to go to heaven is heretical. If jesus did say that and you have to say magical words when you get baptized then better brush up on your greek or aramaic since jesus spoke that way. |
| Henry Volk |
Vlad, do you go to the Slavic Pentecostal Church in Ashville? |
| Vlad Stepanov |
Visited, but I go to a Romanian/Moldovan church. |
1 |
| Henry Volk |
Ah, very interesting. Is it a good church? Is your’s the one in Hickory, or is there another in Ashville too? All my mother’s family are from Sprucepine and Hickory areas. |
| Bibliata Net |
There you go – |
1 |
| Bibliata Net |
Henry Volk do you go to a Slavic church? |
| Vlad Stepanov |
No. I’m in Asheville. We’re a church of about 150 members, plus 200 kids haha |
1 |
| Henry Volk |
No. There is a Russian Orthodox and a Serbian Orthodox Church each about an hour away from me. But, soon my family will be moving to NC. We will probably check this church out. There is also a Russian Orthodox Church in Ashville, I believe. |
| Henry Volk |
Wow. So, Ashville has a large Romanian/Moldovan population I take it? |
| Vlad Stepanov |
Yup. Moldovan population mostly. There is a very large Romanian population in Atlanta though. |
| Henry Volk |
Sweet. Just curious, how long did it take you to get used to the southern dialect? |
| Bibliata Net |
I hope you are not asking me 🙂 I am still not used to the southern dialect whan I talk to Alan N Carla Smith |
1 |
| Vlad Stepanov |
Hahaha. I understand it no problem. Love the country accent 🙂 you should hear the dialect of Asians speaking in English. |
1 |
| Charles Page |
If you go to heaven you will have been born by the Spirit. You can’t go to heaven without the Spirit. However you don’t have to be baptized with the Holy Spirit. |
2 |
| Andy Thompson |
You’ve got to be kidding!! Of course not. I know Baptists that forbid it but they are good Christians. The word of GOD tells us in the gospels the two commandments which are the most important to be saved. |
| Vlad Stepanov |
I’m not. I’ve met people in Pentecostal communities claiming so. Just trying to see what others think. |
| Andy Thompson |
Oh yes I now remember some of our PH people believe that. |
| Steve Wright |
No |
|
| Charles Page |
Steve Wright No (Face book format)see translationtranslation: Not<LOL> what part of No do you not understand |
| Andrew C Lomp |
NO. |
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| Timothy D McCune |
In some UPCI churches they teach that you must speak in tongues as evidence of salvation, either before baptism or right after. |
1 |
| Tom Steele |
Like anything, tongues cannot be a means by which you earn or maintain salvation. However, like many other things we are instructed to do (therefore brethren, covet to prophecy and forbid not to speak in tongues), it can become a salvation issue. In particular, with gifts of the Spirit, you have the issue of people who attribute it to being the work of the devil. That is the exact context Jesus was dealing with when He rebuked the religious leaders for accusing Him of casting out devils though the power of the devil, and introduced the teaching on the “blasphemy of the Holy Ghost,” the one sin He said would not be forgiven. So then, speaking in tongues is certainly a salvation issue to those who teach that speaking in tongues is of the devil. Besides all that, tongues (and interpretation by default) is the only spiritual gift exclusive to the New Testament. I would say that makes it quite possibly the most important of all the gifts and the one that should be desired above all by all true Believers. |
| Ricky Grimsley |
I have a hard time believing cessationists are going to heaven. |
| Randy Buchanan |
No |
|
| James Armstrong |
Yes, born of spirit and the water. Without biblical evidence of tongues you do not have the Holy Ghost inside you. |
1 |
| Shannon P Smith |
It might be the evidence you need. I don’t think God needs evidence to know whether or not he is in you. That first time you spoke in tongues, the moment before you opened your mouth and felt it bubbling inside you – was his spirit in you? That’s like determining the point between conception and birth that life becomes. |
| Ricky Grimsley |
Thats ridiculous. |
| Curtis Fenison |
Opinions are fine. But they have absolutely no value for validating the truth. None of the answers give scriptural reference let alone irrefutable scriptural evidence for or against; “speaking in tongues is necessary for salvation”. Anybody want to answer the question by fact rather than opinion. |
| Stan Wayne |
No |
|
| Mark Schaeufele |
No, tongues as initial evidence of baptism of the Holy Spirit is an empowerment issue, not a salvific one. |
2 |
| Charles Page |
the only requirement for heaven is Penal substitutionary atonement – why would we need scripture to say what we all should know. Give me scripture that supports anything else but PSA as a requirement for heaven.No works, ritual or human mediation just simple substitutionary grace. |
2 |
| Curtis Fenison |
Charles Page Because doctrine, faith, truth is not based on opinion, or democracy. Its based on the Words of God |
| Timothy D McCune |
I agree with you Curtis Fenison show scripture where it say if you do not speak in tongues you won’t go to heaven. |
1 |
| Curtis Fenison |
or scripture showing salvation but no baptism of the holy Ghost |
| Mark Gonzales |
Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. |
| Timothy D McCune |
Mark this scripture says nothing about you must speak in tongues to enter the kingdom of heaven. As for the of water I can agree baptism is what this scripture is speaking about. Many will argue that baptism is not needed and give scripture or argument to back it up. I’m sure there are those on here that can and will argue both sides. I think we should for the simple fact Christ Himself was so we should follow Him. Is it really a point of salvation? at times I myself think yes and other times I can see the other side of the argument, after all the thief on the cross is one example who never was. |
1 |
| Mark Gonzales |
true but is says spirit. How will you know. I go to a church were almos all have received the holy spirit baptism, born of the spirit. Whit the evidence of speaking in tongues. Speaking is the evidence. |
| Ed Lane |
No |
|
| Charles Page |
I believe the words of God support substitutionary atonement -He died in our place. No work of human righteousness will get you into heaven. There is one mediator between God and man and that is Christ, our mediator and sacrifice. |
| Tim Law |
Read Ezekiel ch 18 |
| Stan Wayne |
You know they use Acts 2:38 and :“To him all the prophets bear witness that everyone who believes in him receives forgiveness of sins through his name.†While Peter was still saying these things, the Holy Spirit fell on all who heard the word. And the believers from among the circumcised who had come with Peter were amazed, because the gift of the Holy Spirit was poured out even on the Gentiles. For they were hearing them speaking in tongues and extolling God. Then Peter declared, “Can anyone withhold water for baptizing these people, who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?â€â€Acts 10:43-47 ESV |
| David Asbury |
No it builds you up though |
1 |
| Timothy D McCune |
I believe tongues is great it’s an awesome experience one that fills the soul, I have spoke in tongues on many occasions. I know of other Christians that have not or do not or if they do it’s very quiet between them and God. |
1 |
| Isaac Mugerwa |
No |
|
| Lenny Sutherland |
Many of my learned Baptist brothers believe that tongues were only for that time. I don’t hold to this belief. However, I do believe that there is a lot of emotionalism and hype that is equated with a move of the Spirit and Tongues. Tongues is a gift, and God can give as He will. Is it for our time? Most assuredly. To limit any gift is to limit God. The God I serve is can do and will do as His pleasure desires. |
3 |
| Charles Page |
most learned Baptist brothers think that tongues is a gift of God and not the initial evidence of the baptism with the Holy Ghost. |
1 |
| Lenny Sutherland |
True Charles Page, they also believe, as I stated, that it was for that time; not for our time. |
| David Lewayne Porter |
Tongues is BOTH the initial evidence AND a separate gift.The INITIAL EVIDENCE is for all who believe and accept all that the Father has provided for them. (Personal edification and power/boldness to be a witness) The GIFT is for the Spirit to distribute to individual believers as HE sees fit for public edification – that is the one that is to be interpreted when used publicly. Book of Acts verses 1 Corinthians 12 & 14.Notice (tongues when used, verses when unknown tongues is used) there is a distention.Also read my previous post in this thread. |
1 |
| David Lewayne Porter |
From my previous post in this thread:We are indwelt at Salvation by the Spirit of His Son making us Sons of Adoption (that is for us personally)Gal 4:4 But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law, 5 To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons. 6 And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father. 7 Wherefore thou art no more a servant, but a son; and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ.The Filled is to over flowing (Baptism) is for those around us – for us to witness – Acts 1:8 & Acts 4:31). The baptism according to scripture was always accompanied by evident signs (mostly tongues)Acts 2:4, Acts 10:46, 19:6,Acts 2:33 says we see and hear (audible and visible). Acts 8:18 & 19 Simon knew they received (how)? He must have seen and/or heard as stated by Peter in Acts 2:33.So we can be in dwelt but not filled.The condition to following completely to all God has for us. The issue is the church is not teaching and praying new believers thru to all God has for them – Acts 5:32.Acts 2:38 Salvation and the Baptism SHOULD happen at the same time or very close together, but the church fails to help them yield to all of God’s supply. There is why we have confusion on this topic in this generation. |
| Carl Murphy |
If Tongues were the initial evidence then why didn’t Paul say, you guys speak in tongues yet? Or why would he tell them 2 Corinthians 13 that it is all for nought if you don’t have love. Why did Jesus say, love others as I have loved you, not go speak in tongues. Why did Paul say he spoke in tongues more than you all but did it in his prayer closet? I was raised in one of these fill’um or Kill’um hold them down to the altar if it takes all night churches. I have seen evangelist teach how to be filled, mostly by pointing to their tie and saying every one say see my tie, then he held up his hand and said everyone see my hand, now say it over and over again seemyhand see my tie, you are speaking in tongues! As a professor at South Eastern Bible College, an AG school said, flusha my commode. I assume one should also where one’s hair in a bun if you are a woman to show holiness. God doesn’t need or want a show, he wants us to follow him and to love others as he has loved us and by this all men will know we are his disciples. Tongues are a gift, but they do not prove anything, God made Balaam’s Ass talk. Am I to assume he was saved, indwelled with the Spirit and then received the baptism in the Spirit and spoke in unknown tongues? I also like these definitions in·dwellinˈdwel/verb1.be permanently present in (someone’s soul or mind); possess spiritually.”the Holy Spirit descended to indwell the believers”. And this one in·dwellinˈdwel/fillfil/verbpast tense: filled; past participle: filledput someone or something into (a space or container) so that it is completely or almost completely full.Seems the same to me |
| David Lewayne Porter |
Carl Murphy lolThe ass talked in a language understood (and it was because the ass had been faithful and obedient – more obedient than the prophet) Numbers 22:30 And the ass said unto Balaam, Am not I thine ass, upon which thou hast ridden ever since I was thine unto this day? was I ever wont to do so unto thee? And he said, Nay. And it is 1 Corinthians 13 not 2nd. (and in that He never did away with tongues).Jesus did tell them to go love one another, he also told that them to go be witnesses which encluded Acts 1:7 And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judæa, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth. (In case you can’t believe Mark 16 was encluded in the original text – Mark 16 vs 14 Afterward he appeared unto the eleven as they sat at meat, and upbraided them with their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they believed not them which had seen him after he was risen. 15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. 16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues;18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.)Luke 24:47 And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.48 And ye are witnesses of these things. 49 And, behold, I send the promise of my Father upon you: but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with power from on high.Why did I port all of those, because church history and the book of Acts gives us the fulfillment of Jesus’ prophecy (tongues as of fire, and speaking in tongues – one in the sane with the Baptism of the Holy Ghost).Paul would ask all those he came across if they had received the Holy Ghost (he did not ask about tongues because he knew if they were baptized then they had already spoken and if they got baptized they would speak with tongues) – evidenced in Acts 2, Acts 5, Acts 8, Acts 10, Acts 19.Now 1 Cor 13 love verses chapters 12 &14 is referencing the gift, not the initial evidence which is why he a dressed the topic the way he did (there is a gift that goes with it – gift of interpretation).Filled is the container.Baptism is to over flowing – plunged beneath a flood – as in a river.907 βαπτίζω [BAPTI/ZW] {baptÃzÅ} \bap-tid’-zo\from a derivative of 911; to immerse, submerge; to make whelmed (i.e. fully wet); used only (in the New Testament) of ceremonial ablution, especially (technically) of the ordinance of Christian baptism:–Baptist, baptize, wash. See Greek 911. |
| Carl Murphy |
Yet Peter spoke in a language that was understood my friend, not seemyhandseemytie, idriveahondanota Toyota. |
| David Lewayne Porter |
Understand by others (not by himself).Can you understand the distention between the dialects of Africa, can you understand the distention in dialects of the far East – the Philippines?I work with guys from each, they will tell you it are differences that do change the language. They are similar but the little differences did make large misunderstandings. One guy I work with speaks 7 different dialects. I worked with guys from both South and North Vietnam – the South can understand the North Vietnam language but the North could not understand the South.The issue is as you referenced Acts 2:5 And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, ((out of every nation under heaven)).6 Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in ((his own language)).7 And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilæans?8 And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?9 Parthians, and Medes, and Elamites, and the dwellers in Mesopotamia, and in Judæa, and Cappadocia, in Pontus, and Asia,10 Phrygia, and Pamphylia, in Egypt, and in the parts of Libya about Cyrene, and strangers of Rome, Jews and proselytes,11 Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God.12 And they were all amazed, and were in doubt, saying one to another, What meaneth this?13 Others mocking said, These men are full of new wine.So then the disciples did not speak in their birth tongues, but in the birth tongues of FOREIGNERS of OTHER nations.(or else why did some of those that heard understand them yet others state they were DRUNK?) These were devout believing people – and then unbelievers.You can’t confuse these with the gift of 1 Cor 12 & 14 (or else why would you need the gift to accompany it (the gift of interpretation?))Notice the difference in tongues (acts) and unknown tongues (1 Corinthians).Now a personal set of experiencesI have been in a church service (in NC) where a tongue was given in Filipino, there was a visiting Christian lady in the service that then approached the potium asked for the mic and explained what she just heard the Spirit tell the Church. (Acts chapter 2) it was a natural language yet we needed an interpreter – whether with the gift or natural knowledge. To us it was an unknown tongue – not naturally known. She was from the Philippines.The same situation happened in a church in GA where a Native American Indian was addressed in the tribal language only used by his medicine man – and a Caucasian teenage girl spoke it.(I will stop there).As far as your gibberish – a language that we do not naturally know to us appears gibberish. The reference you gave from Acts explained that. Those who spoke the languages understood, yet those who did not speak the languages did not understand and said they were drunk.((NOTICE NOT ALL THOSE BAPTIZED SPOKE AND WERE GIVEN THE SAME LANGUAGE)).According Acts 2 and the text there where 15+ other language groups present.Think on that and pray for understanding and wisdom.The issue is God is working His Purpose and Plan, not ours. |
| Bibliata Net |
well said David Lewayne Porter any snow i Dunn yet? http://www.pentecostaltheology.com/9-gifts-of-the-spirit…/ |
| David Lewayne Porter |
Ice, and still falling |
| Ed Horn |
I cannot believe we are still debating this in 2016. If you read the Bible and have the knowledge to discern, you will know what is right and acceptable in the sight of God. The problem is, we try to interpret the Bible and not take it for what it is says or doesn’t say. |
1 |
| Linda A. Sharp |
No litmus test. God looks at the heart, not at behaviors. This is personal and individual. When someone demands a litmus test, I am gone. |
| Alan Smith |
Linda A. Sharp so God doesn’t look at our behaviors? |
| Linda A. Sharp |
Of course – that’s where repentance and grace come in. But speaking in tongues for salvation? No. |
1 |
| Alan Smith |
okay. thanks for clarification |
| Bibliata Net |
Ed Horn the question of salvation does not stop at confession alone but extends through one’s lifetime. The Old Pentecostals believed that Holy Ghost baptism was needed to withhold to the very end… |
2 |
| David Lewayne Porter |
Amen, STAYING POWERThat is why after Peter denied Christ as a coward, and was baptized on the day of Pentecost, he at his own request was crucified upside down. |
| Ed Horn |
I am aware of the belief and thought we were able to get beyond this thinking as we are more advanced in our thought process and education of the scripture. |
| Henry Volk |
I agree with БиблиÑта’s analysis, given the follow exception. The earliest Pentecostals following Parham believed that Spirit-baptism was a necessary prerequisite for going in the rapture, which given he believed that it was immanent, was more or less the same thing. |
| Bibliata Net |
Correct Henry Volk Parham believed in a partial rapture composed of tongues speakers. And looking at the church today, he might have been somewhat right 🙂 Alan N Carla Smith |
| Henry Volk |
Did I ever send you my paper on Parham? |
| Bibliata Net |
I think so and it was published, or not? |
| Henry Volk |
I sent it in to Brill’s Pneuma journal. It’s been with the editor for about 6 months now. |
| Alan Smith |
might have been, right. |
| Alan Smith |
however, the Holy Spirit helps us and empowers us to do ministry now. |
2 |
| Owen Isaacs |
No, this is a gift of the Holy Spirit and you can’t receive these gifts until after the gift of salvation has been given to you and you have accepted it. In other words you must be born again first |
1 |
| Tom Steele |
Romans 11:29 says, “For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.” Many believe that this means that you can receive them without repenting, but technically repentance in this case may be better translated “irrevocable” or “cannot be repented of”, indicating that once you have received them you have them. I personally know a person, although I have lost touch as a result of his decision, who renounced God and has become some type of atheist/agnostic or something. My last conversation with him years ago he told me that it wasn’t so much that he no longer believes in God, but rather that he doesn’t care whether God exists or not. Either way, he also told me that he is still able to speak in tongues whenever he wants. This certainly validates this passage as tongues being something you keep once you got it, even if you renounce faith in God. If he, having renounced his own salvation, can still speak in tongues, does that lead to the possibility that a person can receive a spiritual gift prior to receiving salvation? In case anyone is wondering, my old friend was someone I was in school with at World Harvest Bible College (studying under Pastor Rod Parsley), and was perhaps one of the most on fire for God people I knew at the time. So, he wasn’t your average pew-sitter, he was someone who was studying to be in ministry and felt the call of God on his life. I have also heard of unsaved people, particularly Muslims, receiving healing (which is also a gift of God) in Gospel crusades in other countries. Not too many people I know take exception to that or question whether or not an unsaved person can receive healing, because it becomes a sign to everyone around them that God is God. Wouldn’t it be entirely possible for God to do the same with any other gift? If an unsaved person being filled with the Spirit and speaking in tongues led that person and many others to receive Christ, I can see it happening. After all, if it’s determined to not be a salvation issue, then can we really say that a person needs to be saved to receive it? |
| Wahyu |
Read acts 19. They were believers without baptism and tongues then gift was bestowed on them. Easy to understand |
1 |
| Anthony J Johnson |
Read John 3:1-7 and the book of Acts. |
| Ed Horn |
I Cor. 12 is a great book and chapter to read along with Acts 2:4. This should clarify some conversation. |
| Bibliata Net |
Read the whole Bible. Great Book on the subject 🙂 |
3 |
| Ed Horn |
Yes it is. |
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| Wahyu |
If I speak in an unknown tongue….. |
| Pastora Carbajal Carbajal |
NO THERES DIFFERENT WAYS TO HAVE SALVATION |
| Timothy D McCune |
I’m sorry but there’s only one way to salvation. |
| Bibliata Net |
I second that |
| Wahyu |
Ummmm…what? |
| Stan Wayne |
Look it is heretical to have anything other than faith as a criteria for salvation |
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| Wahyu |
Please explain |
| Samuel Ford |
Yes very much |
| Mark Gonzales |
too much ignorance, you do need the holy spirit for salvation. Jesus said. Veriry verily . its two verily , so its very important. Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. |
| Vlad Stepanov |
John 1:13 says that whoever believes is born of the spirit. Speaking in tongues is a different thing. |
| Mark Gonzales |
you got that verse wrong. |
| Mark Gonzales |
Born of the water is the Water Baptism and of the Spirit is the spirit baptism that comes from Jesus. He is the baptizer of the holy spirit |
| Mark Gonzales |
Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. |
| Mark Gonzales |
Peter said it. The Key to the kingdom be baptized in Jesus Christ and to be part of the Body of Christ is to receive the gift of the Holy Ghost |
| Mark Gonzales |
No jumping in the Kingdom from no were, you only enter as said . Born of the Water and of the Spirit. |
| Timothy D McCune |
Mark it’s not ignorance: iron sharpens iron. We talk about what we know we question what we may not be 100% about. Will something keep us from getting in heaven or is needed for heaven. |
| Mark Gonzales |
i dont see any sharp preaching to sharpen you 🙂 . Yes I understand you. I guess I mean to those that been for a long time and still dont know the right way. Since the baptism is first before all, but i guess God works in all at different . Entering into the kingdom is really important |
| Mark Gonzales |
it means being part of the body and if you aint have it right yet. What Good is it if you are out of it? |
| Timothy D McCune |
How is it that you can claim to know what preaching I’m getting? I get tired of the judgmental statements from people on here. |
| Mark Gonzales |
🙂 |
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| Pastora Carbajal Carbajal |
You enter by doin good,jesus,baptism,forgiveness,spirit,faith! Its all in the bible! |
| Pastora Carbajal Carbajal |
Look at that guy that was in the cross with jesus jesus told him he would be with him in paradise an that guy was a thief but he knew who jesus was he only said to jesus remember me an he told the people that jesus didnt do nothing bad to be in the cross |
| Mark Gonzales |
God does as he will, I receive his spirit before I was baptized in the water and its not as acts 2:38. But i then got baptized in the water. All still valid. He is the I am. The God of now. Not yesterday and not tommorrow. Now is the day of salvation. Faith is now |
| Bibliata Net |
Yes, I was expecting the Jesus-only folks to tell us that you need to be baptized in the name-of-Jesus in order to be saved at all |
| Stan Wayne |
Born once, born of Flesh, born of water are on one side of John3 and born again(from above), born of Spirit, born of Spirit on other side. There are 3 couplets.Born once – born againBorn of flesh – born of spiritBorn of water- born of spirit It is a syllogism Go figure |
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| David Lewayne Porter |
I love this, so we don’t see where the disciples baptized like thisBUT are we following them or Jesus? Jesus said Matt 28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.So, who are we following.?Jesus’ disciples or Jesus. |
| James Armstrong |
Let’s not mention that that was added later, which it was, let’s look at the scripture. Jesus said father son Holy Ghost. In the NAME singular. Peter said in Jesus name, singular. If the bible doesn’t contradict itself how can this be?The bible says that doctrine should be build line upon line, precept on precept, a little here and a little there. Doesn’t Paul say the fullness of the Godhead dwells bodily in Christ. So if all of God is in Christ, then wouldn’t Jesus name be the name of the Father, he did receive it by inheritance, the Son, no explanation needed I hope, and the Holy Ghost, which overshadowed Mary making him the father? |
| Mark Gonzales |
Jesus because he said In the name . Of the Father and of the Son and of the holy spirit. Peter Got it right, He knew ohh JESUS. He knew the father was in Jesus and that the holy spirit is Jesus and that the Son is Jesus. |
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| Mark Gonzales |
Only one baptism used in the bible and that is in the name of Jesus . Show me one in the trinity form |
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| David Lewayne Porter |
Matt 28 at the command of the guy you say saved you and you are following Hum. HumMatt 28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.I guess I will just have to follow the lowly Ole carpenter’s son. |
| Mark Gonzales |
Jesus is not baptising! he commanded them to teach! and to baptize. Thats what the disciples did. Teached and baptised. |
| Mark Gonzales |
in His name |
| Mark Gonzales |
Peter got it right. Or is he wrong??? |
| David Lewayne Porter |
Read vs 19There is the issueYou did not read.Teach and BAPTIZING..And baptizing how? |
| Mark Gonzales |
“In the name” |
| Mark Gonzales |
did you miss that |
| Mark Gonzales |
thats the issue |
| Mark Gonzales |
he was telling peter and tell me what did peter do?? |
| Mark Gonzales |
you do understand revelation, Receive revelation in Jesus name |
| David Lewayne Porter |
In the name yesName ifTHE FATHERNAME OF THE SONNAME OF THE HOLY GHOST So where are their NAMES? |
| Mark Gonzales |
But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. (Romans 8:9) |
| Mark Gonzales |
if you have the spirit, its the spirit of God and also is the spirit of Christ. Christ is the holy spirit, so his name is Jesus |
| Mark Gonzales |
God is the father, creator. Jesus is son. Jesus is the spirit |
| David Lewayne Porter |
Mark Gonzales Jesus is not the Spirit.Back that up with ScripturesTell me where Jesus said His Spirit would come.He said the Spirit that proceedeth from the Father (not from or of Himself).Wow |
| David Lewayne Porter |
David Lewayne Porter Holy Ghost is His name,Father is His name JESUS and Son are His NamesSo is Immanuel.Don’t forget The Father (God’s name is… Exodus 34:14For thou shalt worship no other god: for the Lord, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God:So then which NAME (s) do you use exactly…..?.. |
| Mark Gonzales |
is your Dad a father? is your dad a grandfather and is your dad a Son. |
| Mark Gonzales |
whats your dads name? |
| Mark Gonzales |
Tell peter he was wrong |
| Mark Gonzales |
that only you and who baptise in 3 titles right. salvation is for only trinity baptism |
| Mark Gonzales |
Acts 2:38,” Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.” Acts 8:16, “For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.” Acts 10:48, “And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.” Acts 19:5, “When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.” Acts 22:16, ‘And now why do you delay? Arise, and be baptized, and wash away your sins, calling on His name.’ |
| Mark Gonzales |
One Lord, one faith, one baptism, ephesians 4:5 |
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| Mark Gonzales |
Jesus, bealive in Jesus , Jesus baptism |
| David Lewayne Porter |
Mark Gonzales wrong You are not following Jesus’ comment (he said observe all I commanded you and you omit Matt 28:19 and thus can’t fulfill vs 20. |
| Mark Gonzales |
he commanded paul. Did he command you. Paul ! and paul is who obey and the church continues. I obey what paul did. |
| Mark Gonzales |
and not only paul but all did |
| Mark Gonzales |
so time passes and it come down to me, as paul received the command , I receive it too |
| David Lewayne Porter |
Did Paul obey concerning baptism? Here is what your Paul said about baptism (compare to what Jesus said IF you TRULY follow Paul)…1 Cor 4:14 I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius;15 Lest any should say that I had baptized in mine own name.16 And I baptized also the household of Stephanas: besides, I know not whether I baptized any other.17 For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.He was sent to preach, not baptizeWow…. |
| Mark Gonzales |
couldnt find the scripture |
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| Mark Gonzales |
is that the right one |
| Mark Gonzales |
1 corinthians 1:14 |
| Mark Gonzales |
He speaks about division. there was being division because of who baptized who. He himself baptized in verse 16 |
| Mark Gonzales |
and crispus and Gaius |
| David Lewayne Porter |
And yet he said that he was sent to preach not baptize, so then you follow him? |
| Bibliata Net |
like Henry Volk said: old Pentecostals said you need the Holy Ghost for a reason; where’s that paper from yours [posted]? |
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| Henry Volk |
It’s not posted anywhere, as of yet |
| Bibliata Net |
can you post in the group as attachment in a new thread |
| Henry Volk |
I’ll rework into a couple blog posts today and then post them today. |
| Ricky Grimsley |
I was baptized in the name of jesus and then again in the name of the father, son and holy ghost, so i covered lol |
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| Ricky Grimsley |
Personally i think its silly that some people say father son and holy ghost and others just say jesus and some think you actually have to say either or as if they are magic. I would just say” i baptize you in the name of the father, and jesus, and the holy spirit.” If there is no other name under heaven by which we can be saved why would we need three to get baptized. |
| David Lewayne Porter |
It shows the oneness of the triune God-Head. |
| Bibliata Net |
Ricky Grimsley 3 different baptisms or just 2? 1 for each or 1-in-1 and 1-in-3? |
| Ricky Grimsley |
The real question is there three names? Baptism can mean many different things. Water baptism, death, birth, holy ghost baptism. Many people get baptized again when they enter the ministry. I think there are many different works that can happen in close proximity. We all have seen a sinner get saved and then baptized in the holy ghost in the same time frame. I assume that sanctification happened in the middle of that but to believe that they are saved until they get water baptized in jesus name even though they are already speaking in tongues is stupid. |
| Wahyu |
Hat trick here for the win: 1. If baptizing in Jesus name was the actual words spoken over the person (instead of the power or authority) then why would anyone have been confused about what name paul baptized in? Wouldn’t it have been spoken?Lest any should say that I had baptized in mine own name.1 Corinthians:1:152. If baptism is necessary for salvation then why wouldn’t paul have put an emphasis on it but instead said: For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.1 Corinthians:1:173. Also col. Says that whatever we do in word or deed do all th in the name of Jesus, so if a person believes that baptizing in Jesus name is the words spoken over the individual then do they also speak those words over everything they do? |
| Bibliata Net |
John Conger I am primary interested in what Old Time Pentecostals called “fullness in the Spirit” i.e. “saved, sanctified, filled with the Holy Ghost” – there was a definite discipleship and catechism reasoning behind this old Pentecostal formula |
| Wahyu |
I can name a dozen”old time pentecostal preachers” who preached that and went home and beat their kids and even cheated on their wives. My grandfather being one of them. But no t.v. no makeup, certainly no alcohol. Etc etc…. One in particular used to hold tent revivals and then fly over to Mexico to cock fight. “Old time” Pentecost means nothing to me. |
| Bibliata Net |
Just sharing a research interest. Sorry for your painful Pentecostal past! |
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| Wahyu |
Lol it wasn’t the pentecostal faith that caused it. I just believe a lot of the “old time” isn’t as great as people think. |
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| Bibliata Net |
So did Charles Page – we have to pray for him one day too… |
| Mark Gonzales |
Those two baptisms enter you into the Kingdom! If you arent speaking in tongues and didnt received it after the water baptism , Only God knows why. I would be worried and seek God for it. I miself received it before I was baptised, I spoke in tongues and that told me I was baptised with the holy spirit. My sister received the holyspirit after the water baptism. Sometimes its faith! |
| Mark Gonzales |
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wWQjVbhq-UE |
| Mark Gonzales |
Me Like Peters way as Jesus said to do it… In the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy spirit and ye shall receive the Gift of the Holy Ghost. God Honored this guys faith and faith with works and gave em the gift. |
| Stan Wayne |
Good grief. You do not fully understand what the word “name” means. Please take a long breath and think deeply about these two passages and put all presuppositions out of your mind :“Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul? I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius; Lest any should say that I had baptized in mine own name.â€1 Corinthians 1:13-15 KJV“And when they had set them in the midst, they asked, By what power, or by what name, have ye done this?Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole.â€Acts 4:7, 10 KJVRead it in Spanish |
| Mark Gonzales |
“Name” is a title, what name it is its important for baptism. Christ is not divided and paul was not crucified for me. IT was JESUS . Nor was i baptized in the name of Paul , paul didnt baptise me and my pastor did but what matters who DOES. But that I Mark am baptised in JESUS nAME IS What matters. Not the who baptise me here in earth |
| Mark Gonzales |
by the name of Jesus Christ whom was crucified for me, whom God raised from the dead I was baptised and healed . 🙂 |
| David Lewayne Porter |
If I baptize in the name of the Father, Son, And Holy Spirit then I am covered with baptizing in the name of Jesus. |
| Mark Gonzales |
No other name is important |
| Mark Gonzales |
its the name above all names |
| Mark Gonzales |
Nope. you aint covered David Lewayne Porter. You have to invoke the name. Because it has power. Jesus died for you right. He took your sins in the cross right, his blood covers you. Whos blood.. Jesus blood |
| Mark Gonzales |
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wWQjVbhq-UE |
| Mark Gonzales |
This is evidence, The Video and true. Read acts 2:38 |
| Mark Gonzales |
This is the apostles doctrine |
| David Lewayne Porter |
So you don’t follow Jesus? You over look his command? And you say you are a Christian which means Christ like, follower of JesusSo then explain that to meSounds like you are following Peter. Read Acts, Peter was not pwrfec5.He made mistakes. He lived a double standard at times. Gal 2:11 But when Peter was come to Antioch, I withstood him to the face, because he was to be blamed.12 For before that certain came from James, he did eat with the Gentiles: but when they were come, he withdrew and separated himself, fearing them which were of the circumcision.So then you are following a man and not the Son of God?Alright then. |
| Mark Gonzales |
\ |
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| Stan Wayne |
Mark – you are not understanding what “name” means – read it again – Paul could not have feared that they would think he had baptized in Paul’s name if it meant what you think |
| Mark Gonzales |
He was meaning not to be making idols with other people. As to who baptized who, Like saying this pastor baptised me, his name is JOE. It doesnt matter who baptises. they were being devided by making others more important. Christ shouldnt be divided |
| Mark Gonzales |
they divided him by focusing on who baptised who. making that person more important |
| Mark Gonzales |
s Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul? I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius; Lest any should say that I had baptized in mine own name.â€1 Corinthians 1:13-15 KJV |
| Mark Gonzales |
if paul did baptised them , they would of probably be making him a someone important. but it dont matter. It matters to be united and not worry who baptise who using their names.Like if I said of My pastor Joe baptise me and then i ask who baptise you? then that caused division |
| Stan Wayne |
You are still not understanding that Paul COULD NOT have feared they would think he baptized in Paul’s NAME if Paul considered “name” to mean a name or appellation like “Tom Dick Harry” while he was baptizing in Jesus name or Christ’s name. You are not getting it. Paul was not thinking it was a formula. |
| Mark Gonzales |
i didnt mean as formula but as who did it |
| Mark Gonzales |
what pastor or leader baptise you |
| Stan Wayne |
His name was Lonnie Frisbee You are still not getting Paul’s fear |
| Mark Gonzales |
you aint. his fear is division. Who likes division. not him or I |
| Ricky Grimsley |
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| David Lewayne Porter |
1 Corinthians 9:27But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.Salvation under a ministry means nothing.It just shows God loves and takes care if His sheep.Not that He approves of the Shepherd.Look at those saved under the ministries of Swaggart and Bakker while they were preaching and SINNING. |
| Ricky Grimsley |
I realize that but that was moral not doctrinal. |
| David Lewayne Porter |
No, not exactly |
| Charles Page |
I had two wide awake visions about Rogers in hell. |
| Ricky Grimsley |
Really? |
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| Stan Wayne |
Who is ^^^^ but that is a non sequitur |
| David Lewayne Porter |
Read Matt 28:19 Mark GonzalesApparently you are following man more than the Jesus you say saved you. |
| Ricky Grimsley |
Lol |
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| Ricky Grimsley |
That is the end of the argument though. The people that believe in jesus name baptism, and speaking in tongues to saved….are saying that virtually ever great minister we have ever heard of is going to hell. |
| Vlad Stepanov |
Mark Gonzales Did Jesus speak in tongues? Did he say we need to speak in tongues? Jesus said is that we need to be born again in order to be saved. How are you born again? John 1:12-13″ But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name: 13 who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.” |
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| Mark Gonzales |
yes you bealive in his name. then why havent you been baptiZed in his name. no he didnt but said to be born and the only evidence is speaking in tongues. Dont deny the power of God. Born again is spirit and water baptism |
| Mark Gonzales |
see the video above |
| Vlad Stepanov |
You clearly are confusing being born again with speaking in tongues. Paul said, “I wish that all would speak in tongues, moreover, prophecy.” What does that mean? Not all were speaking in tongues. Don’t try to limit God. He works in various ways. |
| Wahyu |
We are baptized in his name. Under the power and authority of jesus. Do you pronounce “in Jesus name” out loud over everything you do? If not then according to your belief you are being disobedient And whatsoever ye do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God and the Father by him.Colossians:3:17 |
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| David Lewayne Porter |
Who did this Jesus you referenced say to be baptized in the name of?(Take your time)…………….And then who are you baptized in the name of(Take your time)…………….So then.Are you following this Jesus, or one of your own,,,, Or someone else’s. …Jesus said in the same passageMatthew 28:20Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen. Which is RIGHT AFTER vs 19 how to baptize HIS new disciples. So yet I ask againWHO are YOU following? Take your time…………….. |
| Mark Gonzales |
One who speaks in a tongue edifies himself; but one who prophesies edifies the church. 5Now I wish that you all spoke in tongues, but even more that you would prophesy; and greater is one who prophesies than one who speaks in tongues, unless he interprets, so that the church may receive edifying. |
| Mark Gonzales |
how will you edify yourself if you dont speak in tongues |
| Mark Gonzales |
but many werent doing it |
| Timothy D McCune |
Vlad your point is interesting about Jesus speaking in tongues, as I thought about that I thought He had no need too He is God , Holy Spirit all three in one which is the mystery of the Godhead=trinity that man has tried to explain for a long time. |
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| David Lewayne Porter |
Mark Gonzales I don’t care what many weren’t doing, or where doing.I am to follow Jesus, no one else. Paul said you follow me AS LONG AS I FOLLOW CHRIST.And then we are told if any one, any angel, any spirit, even themselves teach or preach another Christ to disregard them and let them be accursed. ..So who are we following? …………..Take your time |
| David Lewayne Porter |
Timothy D McCune amen |
| Mark Gonzales |
were is the church started from? the apostles. Whos the head of the church.. Jesus . Jesus being the head giving commands to the apostles. We set ourselves in the shoes of the apostles and follow Jesus as they did |
| Mark Gonzales |
you aint setting yourself in the apostolic doctrine with Paul. You are preaching contrary to Paul . He preached Jesus , so will I . |
| Mark Gonzales |
Paul said you follow me AS LONG AS I FOLLOW CHRIST.And then we are told if any one, any angel, any spirit, even themselves teach or preach another Christ to disregard them and let them be accursed. .. |
| Mark Gonzales |
follow Paul, in his shoes!! He follows christ, so ill follow in his foot steps |
| Mark Gonzales |
that is the first church |
| Mark Gonzales |
if you aint baptising in Jesus as Paul did. you aint with him |
| Mark Gonzales |
and if you aint with him you aint with Christ |
| Vlad Stepanov |
Timothy D McCune Well, he had no need to because he was God. But him being God, why did he pray? Are we not to be like Jesus? Not saying speaking in tongues is not good, it is, as are all other gifts given to us through the Holy Spirit, but telling someone that he/she isn’t saved because they don’t speak in tongues is limiting God and preaching the wrong doctrine. |
| Mark Gonzales |
Yes be like Jesus. what did the apostles do when they received the spirit. Speak in tongues right |
| Mark Gonzales |
well follow that |
| Mark Gonzales |
tongues of fire, even the gifts are being manifested, but since you dont bealive in it. How will you receive |
| Mark Gonzales |
The gifts are manifested through the spirit. Well how will you receive if you dont have the spirit. How will you interpret if you dont speak in tongues. |
| David Lewayne Porter |
Mark Gonzales there is a distention in initial evidence of tongues and the gift of tongues. Acts 2 is not the same as 1 Cor 12& 14 |
| Timothy D McCune |
Vlad Stepanov I believe all the gifts are good including tongues and as the Bible says done in the proper way. |
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| Mark Gonzales |
I follow Jesus, as paul did. |
| David Lewayne Porter |
But I thought we were following Peter. (Just being funny)No not really.I follow Jesus above all othersRegardless of what anyone did or says Jesus IS THE STANDARD in all things. |
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| Mark Gonzales |
sorry , i always confuse those two 😛 |
| Mark Gonzales |
I as well do too Jesus . Jesus is the word of God |
| Mark Gonzales |
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: |
| David Lewayne Porter |
And all scripture must line up with who Jesus Truly is.No Scriptures can over-ride Jesus or it is in error and is to be discarded (since scripture CAN’T contridict Jesus). |
| Mark Gonzales |
all scripture from Old to New |
| Mark Gonzales |
the only error is in people, I think those that dont have the revelation. For is the spirit that gives revelation |
| Wahyu |
Spirit never gives revelatiobn that contradicts scripture. And Mark Gonzales you never answered me, do you pronounce out loud “in Jesus name” over everything you do? Question #2: how would anyone be confused about whose name paul baptized in if he pronounced it over them? |
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| Stan Wayne |
Mark – you are devout – we have all seen the singleminded devotion of oneness people but you don’t understand doing things in someone’s “name” |
| Mark Gonzales |
we do it in the name of Jesus, not any other |
| Mark Gonzales |
explain the wrong of it? |
| Mark Gonzales |
by how you understand wrong about using Jesus name |
| Mark Gonzales |
you will bow down to it |
| Mark Gonzales |
1 Corinthians 6:11 – And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God |
| Mark Gonzales |
washed your sins with his name, and are sanctified and justified and also by his spirit |
| Mark Gonzales |
Not all. I myself use it when praying over people, finances etc. Theres power in the Name. It brakes chains |
| Mark Gonzales |
dont understand question 2 |
| Wahyu |
Do you believe it should be pronounced out loud over everything you do since it says to do all things in Jesus name? Col 3#2 paul said some in Corinth might think he baptized in his own name (chptr 1) my question is how could anyone think that if he pronounced out loud whose name he was baptizing in? |
| Wahyu |
If I give money to a homeless person because of Christ in me and my care for the needy but I don’t say “in Jesus name I do this” did I not still do it in Jesus name? |
| Mark Gonzales |
he didnt say to invoke his name whyle giving. 16And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord. HERE he does |
| Mark Gonzales |
And whatsoever ye do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God and the Father by him. |
| Wahyu |
You’re not answering my question. Does it have to be said out loud to count as “Jesus name”? |
| Mark Gonzales |
paul was speaking about division among the leaders. |
| Wahyu |
I know he was taljing about factions and some people following one leader etc. And said some might be confused about whose name he baptized in.. please address how this would have been possible if he spoke it audibly |
| Timothy D McCune |
I know where Mark is coming from I grew up in the same way, my father and everyone in our church said In Jesus Name over everything in every prayer. I see nothing wrong with this devotion as long as it’s a true dedication of love. Many times though there’s a lot legalistic rules that come with them. |
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| Charles Page |
a lot of the old fashion preachers would say “my God” when they really got anointed. I thought it bordered on cursing, however it was Christened cursing. “my god, do you feel what I feel in this place tonight.” |
| Mark Gonzales |
What I mean is this: One of you says, “I follow Paulâ€; another, “I follow Apollosâ€; another, “I follow Cephas[b]â€; still another, “I follow Christ.â€13 Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Were you baptized in the name of Paul? 14 I thank God that I did not baptize any of you except Crispus and Gaius, 15 so no one can say that you were baptized in my name. 16 (Yes, I also baptized the household of Stephanas; beyond that, I don’t remember if I baptized anyone else.) 17 For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel—not with wisdom and eloquence, lest the cross of Christ be emptied of its power. |
| Wahyu |
Yeah but big different in saying it should be said in prayer and telling someone they’re not saved |
| Mark Gonzales |
they had divisions, because one had been batised by this brother and the other by another. So making themselves idols and causing division. I follow this cause he baptize me |
| Wahyu |
Still not answering my question |
| Charles Page |
previous question? |
| Mark Gonzales |
invoking the name of Jesus over baptism |
| Stan Wayne |
You are not getting it |
| Mark Gonzales |
are you stan |
| Mark Gonzales |
its not the name they were confused |
| Mark Gonzales |
whe shouldnt divide Christ, because of who baptized us. |
| Stan Wayne |
You still don’t get it |
| Mark Gonzales |
ok explain it to me stan |
| Wahyu |
Like trying to nail jello. I give up |
| Stan Wayne |
What was Paul afraid they would think if he had done the baptizing? |
| Mark Gonzales |
since that talks about Divisions amongs the Leaders. The division was about who baptise who. |
| Ricky Grimsley |
|
1 |
| Mark Gonzales |
He did baptise |
| Mark Gonzales |
read it |
|
| Mark Gonzales |
I thank God that I did not baptize any of you except Crispus and Gaius, 15 so no one can say that you were baptized in my name. 16 (Yes, I also baptized the household of Stephanas; beyond that, I don’t remember if I baptized anyone else. |
| Stan Wayne |
Read it slowly in Spanish and ask what Paul was afraid they would do in their carnal state |
| Mark Gonzales |
thats Niv since Old english kjv is hard for you |
| Mark Gonzales |
🙂 |
|
| Stan Wayne |
Hey Ricky I want to make memes like that what is your meme app |
| Mark Gonzales |
he didnt baptize none of those leaders because if he did, he would of been mentioned in the division |
| Mark Gonzales |
but he baptized Crispus and Gaius and the household of Stephanas |
| Charles Page |
the name of Jesus connects us to the God head. The name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit is Jesus There is no other name that gives us access to God. neither Mary, Ray Hughes or TL Lowery will grant you access. |
| David Lewayne Porter |
Simple questionWhere did JESUS tell anyone to baptize in His name ONLY?And noticeJohn CHAPTER 4.1 When therefore the Lord knew how the Pharisees had heard that Jesus made and baptized more disciples than John,2 (Though Jesus himself baptized not, but his disciples,) |
| Mark Gonzales |
Now imagine if he did baptized them . Them who are in Division. The would say ” i am baptized by paul”. But paul is glad he didnt baptise any of them |
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| Mark Gonzales |
Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Were you baptized in the name of Paul? |
1 |
| Mark Gonzales |
paul wasent crucified for us. So we dont need to have division of who baptise us |
| Ricky Grimsley |
Meme creator. |
1 |
| Stan Wayne |
Thanks |
|
| Stan Wayne |
Think:“Asà nadie puede presumir de haber quedado vinculado a mà por el bautismo.â€1 CORINTIOS 1:15 BLPH |
| Mark Gonzales |
pauls glad he didnt baptise none of the Leaders in Division. This is a Division amongs brethren. So paul says realize: to them that we are sent to preach the gospel than to worry about baptism , about who did it. But baptism is necessary as he himself Paul did it. |
| David Lewayne Porter |
Really What did the Jerusalem counsel say concerning the new gentile believers? |
| Mark Gonzales |
verse |
|
| David Lewayne Porter |
Acts 15 allBut verses 28 For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things;29 That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well. |
| Bibliata Net |
http://www.pentecostaltheology.com/i-am-a-trinity-believer/ |
1 |
| Mark Gonzales |
For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel—not with wisdom and eloquence, lest the cross of Christ be emptied of its power. |
1 |
| Mark Gonzales |
Focus on preaching the Cross and not about the ” I belong to or follow apollos etc.. or am baptized by him or her. Thats the message! |
| Mark Gonzales |
But Pauls baptisms were done invoking the name of JESUS |
| David Lewayne Porter |
Then simply question, simple taskShow me Jesus only, then show where that is how Jesus specified it to be done. (Where in the entirety of scripture did Jesus the Son, God the Father, or The Holy Ghost command the baptism to be done Only in Jesus’ name)? |
| Mark Gonzales |
Wasent Jesus with them |
| Mark Gonzales |
do you understand revelation, do you have the holyspirit. Then its hard at times , unless God reveals it to you |
| David Lewayne Porter |
Where did Jesus command in His name only?Are you afraid to answer the question? |
| Mark Gonzales |
Wasent Jesus the Father in Jesus the Son and the holyspirit who is God and Jesus , with them |
| Mark Gonzales |
all apostles were doing it |
| Mark Gonzales |
Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved. |
| Mark Gonzales |
that is the Word of God, by the holy spirit |
| Mark Gonzales |
By Jesus. |
|
| Mark Gonzales |
Jesus is the word of God |
| David Lewayne Porter |
No I don’t have the Holy Spirit HE has Me!God has revealed to me.Revealed that people are not following Jesus, they are following themselves and other men.Answer the question WHERE DID JESUS TELL YOU IN HIS NAME ONLY? Hint You won’t answer because you can not.You can’t find it. It is not there. You use the same thinking as the Jehovah witnesses and they do Jehovah only and they are as correct as you believe that you are. So then when did Jesus say His name Only? |
| David Lewayne Porter |
Mark Gonzales yes, Jesus is The Word, and what did He tell us, how did He say to baptize before He left the earth and sent the Holy Ghost? How did He say to do it? |
| Mark Gonzales |
He said in the name .. Of the.. Father .. Son and holy spirit. Thats what he said. I bealive him. Ok jesus in your name because you showed me that the father is in you and you in the father . being God spirit . and you in the father tells me you are the holy spirit so its jesus. Also i see by the apostles you picked haved revealed them your name and they used that name in baptism. I also know you died for me and theres only remissions of sins through your blood.i imitate you i repent and my sins are in the cross. I get baptise and my sins and old me stays burried. |
| Mark Gonzales |
Put urself in the apostles .in fact peters shoes. He heard him say in the name of the father son and holy spirit. Why did he baptise in jesus. He knew. If you dont know who the father is, you will die in your sins… Look for that verse!!! |
| Mark Gonzales |
I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins. |
| Mark Gonzales |
he who? God the father. |
| David Lewayne Porter |
Mark Gonzales baptism is an out sign.It does not keep you saved.Show that in scripture.And no where in scripture does it say Jesus IS THE HOLY SPIRIT/HOLY GHOST. Show me that one. That is not what is meant by the God-Head.The Three are equal in Eternity, in essence, in power, in knowledge, in purpose, in existence.But they are still distinct in individuality, expression, and revelation.The Three work together as One and share certain characteristics and, qualities, and attributes,, yet they are still individual. |
| David Lewayne Porter |
Mark Gonzales He Who, ? JESUS the Messiah as prophesied in the Law, The Psalms, and the Prophets (Jesus said he that believeth in me AS THE Scripture saith). |
| Mark Gonzales |
But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. |
| Mark Gonzales |
the spirit of Christ is the spirit of God . |
| Mark Gonzales |
can you say no |
| David Lewayne Porter |
Mark Gonzales you mean you can’t find the verses on which you place your beliefs? |
| Mark Gonzales |
Now if any man have not the spirit of Christ |
| Mark Gonzales |
the son i God |
| Mark Gonzales |
is God. Jesus jesus jesus |
| David Lewayne Porter |
What exactly do you believe, what do you base it on. Seems like I am the one backing up their beliefs with Scriptures.I am not trying to give you a hard time, but I don’t understand people that can’t back up in the Scripture what they say they believe. |
| Mark Gonzales |
ok back this one up , with evidence. Can you receive revelation |
| Mark Gonzales |
But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God. |
| Mark Gonzales |
For who among men knows the thoughts of a man except the spirit of the man which is in him? Even so the thoughts of God no one knows except the Spirit of God. 12Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, so that we may know the things freely given to us by God |
| Mark Gonzales |
can you teach me revealed things |
| Mark Gonzales |
But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. |
| Mark Gonzales |
if you dont have his spirit, you aint having revelation. Let the word speak |
| Mark Gonzales |
the spirit reveals the word |
| Mark Gonzales |
thats why its so important to receive it |
| David Lewayne Porter |
Mark Gonzales if Jesus is the Father God then how isHe the Son of God?John 9:35 Jesus heard that they had cast him out; and when he had found him, he said unto him, Dost thou believe on the Son of God?So then Phil 2:9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.Jesus individual from God the Father,Yet exhalted by Father God. |
| David Lewayne Porter |
Mark Gonzales you mean RECEIVE HIM, Holy Spirit is a Him |
| Mark Gonzales |
its a spirit |
|
| Mark Gonzales |
yes its the son of God, Revelation by his spirit tell us he is the father |
| Mark Gonzales |
i dont deny he is the son of God. But along reading the scriptures you see that he himself took a body . being spirit he needed a body to come down |
| David Lewayne Porter |
Mark Gonzales you are right The Word did take a bodyBut not Father God. The son was in God’s form Vs 6, 7, 9, equal with God.But God is 3 individual persons(Father, Son, Spirit)Phil 2:CHAPTER 2.1 If there be therefore any consolation in Christ, if any comfort of love, if any fellowship of the Spirit, if any bowels and mercies,2 Fulfil ye my joy, that ye be likeminded, having the same love, being of one accord, of one mind.3 Let nothing be done through strife or vainglory; but in lowliness of mind let each esteem other better than themselves.4 Look not every man on his own things, but every man also on the things of others.5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.Also Gen 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: us, our plural John 1:CHAPTER 1.1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.2 The same was in the beginning with God.3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.Also continued in verse 14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.So then The Three are equal in Eternity, in essence, in power, in knowledge, in purpose, in existence.But they are still distinct in individuality, expression, and revelation.The Three work together as One and share certain characteristics and, qualities, and attributes,, yet they are still individual. |
| Bibliata Net |
http://www.pentecostaltheology.com/trinity-what…/ |
| Timothy D McCune |
What scripture text shows Paul saying “I baptize you in the name of Jesus. ( Mark Gonzales ) |
| Mark Gonzales |
Didnt he belong to the apostles |
| Mark Gonzales |
Paul said, “John baptized with the baptism of repentance, telling the people to believe in Him who was coming after him, that is, in Jesus.” 5When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 6And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Spirit came on them, and they began speaking with tongues |
| Mark Gonzales |
paul was here |
| Mark Gonzales |
they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. |
| Ricky Grimsley |
So which is it you get water baptized then you can get the holy ghost or is like this where the get the holy ghost first. Acts 10:46-48 KJVS[46] For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter, [47] Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we? [48] And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.Oops maybe they went to hell because he didnt say jesus only “the lord”. |
| Bibliata Net |
http://www.pentecostaltheology.com/discussing-the-trinity/ |
| Mark Gonzales |
i myself received it before water baptism |
| Mark Gonzales |
its up to God |
| Mark Gonzales |
that verse tells you that it can be received before water and after. Thats an answer for those who say why before. or can we before water baptism |
| Mark Gonzales |
God did it that way, as you can read it |
| Ricky Grimsley |
Yeah he did it both ways because they were already saved. |
| Mark Gonzales |
it says in the name of the LORD. one Lord, Jesus. |
| Mark Gonzales |
my sister got baptised in water and didnt received it way after baptism. Some right after coming out of the water |
| Ricky Grimsley |
Lol so she wasnt saved yet? |
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| David Lewayne Porter |
And some before water baptism |
| Bibliata Net |
Ricky Grimsley the point made earlier with Henry Volk was that the fullness in the Spirit i.e. saved, sanctified and filled with the Holy Ghost was not just an empty formula, but carried a definite Trinitarian experience shaped after the historical continuity to the doctrine of the Holy Trinity as given by the first apostles. Biblically, it was based on today’s long lost verse of the Bible in 1 John 5:7 For there are three that testify… |
| Mark Gonzales |
do you know were the trinity formula came from |
| Mark Gonzales |
the apostels baptism formula has always been in Jesus name and it was changed to saying in the name of the father … |
| Vlad Stepanov |
Actually Mark, the formula, three persons, one essence, was developed by Tertullian (160-220) |
| Mark Gonzales |
BRITANNICA ENCYCLOPEDIA 11TH edition, Vol 3, Pg 365-366 The baptismal formula was changed from the name of JESUS CHRIST to the words Father, Son, & Holy Ghost by the Catholic Church in the second century. |
| Mark Gonzales |
The catholic. Theres many other enciclopedias were it says they changed it and confess. Many protestant churches carried this mistake when leaving the Catholic church |
| Ricky Grimsley |
So this means what?Matthew 28:19 KJVS[19] Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: |
| Mark Gonzales |
so before catholic were the apostles. Thats the true baptism formula. The first church |
| Mark Gonzales |
as they did it |
| Mark Gonzales |
yes Jesus told peter. and they knew that the father was in the son and the and that the name is to be used, so thats what they did |
| Ricky Grimsley |
Sure is a lot of conjecture on this thread. |
| Bibliata Net |
Mark Gonzales Actually what you quoted is The Catholic Encyclopedia, II, page 263. This is what Britannica says http://www.britannica.com/topic/Trinity-Christianity |
| Mark Gonzales |
BRITANNICA ENCYCLOPEDIA Vol 3, Pg 82 Everywhere in the oldest sources it states that baptism took place in the name of Jesus Christ.CANNEY ENCYCLOPEDIA OF RELIGION Pg 53 The early church always baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus until development of Trinity doctrine in the 2nd century.Actual page CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA Vol 2, Pg 263 Here the Catholics acknowledged that baptism was changed by the Catholic Church. http://en.wikisource.org/…/Page:Catholic…/309 HASTINGS ENCYCLOPEDIA OF RELIGION Vol 2, Pg 377 Christian baptism was administered using the words “In the name of Jesusâ€. Vol 2, Pg 378 The use of a Trinitarian formula of any sort was not suggested in early Church history. Vol 2, Pg 389 Baptism was always in the name of Lord Jesus until the time of Justin Martyr when Triune formula was used.CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA Vol 8 Justin Martyr was one of the early Fathers of the Roman Catholic Church.HASTINGS ENCYCLOPEDIA OF RELIGION Vol 2, Pg 377 on ACTS 2:38 NAME was an ancient synonym for “personâ€. Payment was always made in the name of some person referring ownership. Therefore one being baptized in Jesus Name became his personal property. “Ye are Christ’s.â€NEW INTERNATIONAL ENCYCLOPEDIA Vol 22, Pg 477 The term “Trinity†was originated by Tertullian, a Roman Catholic Church Father.ENCYCLOPEDIA OF RELIGION AND ETHICS (1951), II, 384, 389 The formula used was ‘in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ’ or some synonymous phrase; there is no evidence for the use of the trine name… The earliest form, represented in the Acts, was simple immersion….in water, the use of the name of the Lord, and the laying on of hands. To these were addedm at various times and places which cannot be safely identified, (a) the trine name (Justin)INTERPRETERS DICTIONARY OF THE BIBLE (1962) I, 351 The evidence … suggests that baptism in early Christianity was administered, not in the threefold name, but ‘in the name of the Lord Jesus’.A HISTORY OF CHRISTIAN THOUGHT (Otto Heick) (1965), I, 53 At first baptism was administered in the name of Jesus, but gradually in the name of the Triune God: Father, Son, and Holy Ghost.HASTINGS DICTIONARY OF THE BIBLE (1898), I, 241 [One explanation is that] the original form of words was ‘into the name of Jesus Christ’. Baptism into the name of the Trinity was a later development.A HISTORY OF THE CHRISTIAN CHURCH Williston Walker, (1947), Pg 58 The Trinitarian baptismal formula … was displacing the older baptism in the name of Christ.THE NEW SCHAFF-HERZOG ENCYCLOPEDIA OF RELIGIOUS KNOWLEDGE (1957), I, 435 The New Testament knows only baptism in the name of Jesus …, which still occurs even in the second and third centuries.CANNEY’S ENCYCLOPEDIA OF RELIGIONS (1970), Pg 53 Persons were baptized at first ‘in the name of Jesus Christ’ … or ‘in the name of the Lord Jesus.’… Afterwards, with the development of the doctrine of the Trinity, they were baptized ‘in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost.ENCYCLOPEDIA BIBLICA (1899), I, 473 It is natural to conclude that baptism was administered in the earliest times ‘in the name of Jesus Christ,’ or in that ‘of the Lord Jesus.’ This view is confirmed by the fact that the earliest forms of the baptismal confession appear to have been single – not triple, as was the later creed.ENCYCLOPEDIA BRITANNICA 11TH edition, (1910), Vol 2, Pg 365 The Trinitarian formula and trine immersion were not uniformly used from the beginning… Bapti[sm] into the name of the Lord [was] the normal formula of the new Testament. In the 3rd century baptism in the name of Christ was still so wide spread that Pope Stephen, in opposition to Cyprian of Carthage, declared it to be valid. |
| Mark Gonzales |
you need more |
| Bibliata Net |
What “oldest sources” give a link to it or year/publisher so we can check it out |
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| Wahyu |
Any argument requiring sources outside scripture to prove are weak in scriptural merit |
| Bibliata Net |
Also a non-existing source. Search and see for yourself https://books.google.com/books?id=kDz63nYjAVwC… |
| Ricky Grimsley |
Do any of the trinitarian guys think that if someone was only baptized in jesus name that the baptism didnt count? |
| Charles Page |
I’m trinitarian and in Jesus name is not a problem. I believe the people who practice baptismal regeneration stir up strife and confusion. (as well as the people who teach decisional regeneration) |
| Ricky Grimsley |
If i baptize anyone i will probably just “in the name of the father, Jesus, and the spirit.” |
| Mark Gonzales |
rick theres only one. it says on ephesian 4:5 |
| Mark Gonzales |
one has to be wrong. Either the apostles or the trinity |
| Mark Gonzales |
One Lord, one faith, one baptism, Ephesians 4:5 |
| Mark Gonzales |
Jesus agrees with the apostles |
| Mark Gonzales |
i agree with Jesus in the Name and with the apostles in JESUS Name |
| Ricky Grimsley |
Personally i dont think it matters. What does this scripture mean. Matthew 28:19 KJVS[19] Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: |
| Mark Gonzales |
what does ephesians 4:5 means one |
| Mark Gonzales |
can there be two ways |
| Mark Gonzales |
of getting in? |
| Mark Gonzales |
the kingdom i mean |
| Mark Gonzales |
tell God that that one is wrong and tell him to put two. Cant do that right |
| Mark Gonzales |
so if you see theres only one, Lets look for only one |
| Ricky Grimsley |
There is only one way but it isnt baptism. |
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| Mark Gonzales |
yes one Lord, One faith one baptism |
| David Lewayne Porter |
Romans 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. |
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| Ricky Grimsley |
One baptism doesn mean magic words it means intent. Next you will tell me i have to say the exact words to get save or get the baptism. Sounds like witchcraft. |
| Mark Gonzales |
nope it means. Define baptism |
| Mark Gonzales |
then jesus should of said, just submerge them in water |
| Mark Gonzales |
haha |
|
| Mark Gonzales |
“And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord†(Acts 10:48). |
| Mark Gonzales |
command |
|
| Mark Gonzales |
“And now why are you waiting? Arise and be baptized, and wash away your sins, calling on the name of the Lord†(Acts 22:16). |
| Mark Gonzales |
say yes to this verses |
| Mark Gonzales |
for they are life |
| Mark Gonzales |
“Baptism now saves you — not the removal of dirt from the flesh, but an appeal to God for a good conscience — through the resurrection of Jesus Christ†(1 Peter 3:21). |
| Mark Gonzales |
saves you |
|
| Ricky Grimsley |
Baptism means being immersed in something. Thats why i believe that having the holy ghost and being baptized in the holy ghost are different things. When you get save the spirit indwells you. When you are baptized in the spirit its all over you. |
| Ricky Grimsley |
Yes baptism saves you the same way living a holy life saves you….by an answer of a good conscience to God. |
| Ricky Grimsley |
How much more plain than saying “not by putting away the filth of the flesh”. Same way with feet washing. It doesnt save you but we need to be doing it as an answer of a good conscience to God. |
| Mark Gonzales |
Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. |
| Mark Gonzales |
burry the old and in with the new. Burried with who |
| Mark Gonzales |
Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead. |
| Mark Gonzales |
With Jesus. |
| Mark Gonzales |
makes sense to use the name |
| Mark Gonzales |
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. |
| Mark Gonzales |
Baptized in JESUs name have put on Christ. |
| Ricky Grimsley |
The travesty of this is that oneness people dont feel people like me are saved. Hey usually just dont have the guys to say it. They hide behind “well…. we are all in a process if salvation”. |
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| Wahyu |
David Lewayne Porter don’t confuse the discussion with plain scripture. You’ll mess up someone’s ideology |
1 |
| Mark Gonzales |
Yes we are all in the process! it starts with Jesus the foundation |
| Bibliata Net |
http://www.pentecostaltheology.com/89-proofs-of-a-divine…/ |
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| David Lewayne Porter |
And where did “Christ” say in his name only? Are you not following Christ,Or are we following men?There is the question we all must answer. As you pointed out Paul said follow him as long as he was following Christ, So where was Paul following Christ’s Words as related to baptism? That is a very simple and straightforward question that deserves an honest and Biblically based answer.And it appears that there will not be given one.Question is why? |
| Mark Gonzales |
I follow Christ and the men he chose to write about. Our brothers peter and paul. Who are part of the Body of Christ. |
| Mark Gonzales |
its one body. is in it the head that Gives the instructions and the parts that follow |
| Mark Gonzales |
God has a Church. The apostolic Church was and it has been growing till now. Jesus being the Head |
| Mark Gonzales |
IF Jesus said baptise in then Name: of the fathe and son and holy spirit. The body agrees. If not confussion. |
| David Lewayne Porter |
Mark Gonzales we follow the men God chose if they follow Christ (if – did they?).And as far as Christ is the head of if the Church, yesBut1 Corinthians 11:3But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.So then Christ Jesus has a Head and it is not Himself. |
| David Lewayne Porter |
Good night all,I have two messages to pin down. |
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| Bibliata Net |
David Lewayne Porter hey you can always invite your friendly local evangelist to come help with 1 or 2 🙂 |
| David Lewayne Porter |
БиблиÑта Тв I think right now I need your help more with this group of people. That is not a no, that is that I will keep it on prayer. We will see where that leads. |
| Bibliata Net |
http://www.pentecostaltheology.com/a-christian-is-the…/ |
| Charles Page |
you are saved because you accept the trinity? |
| Charles Page |
oneness say you are saved because you accept a unitarian god and endure the rituals! |
| Mark Gonzales |
i see im the only oness pentecostal. |
| Mark Gonzales |
the apostles never teached trinity |
| Andrew C Lomp |
The key is Faith which was counted to Abraham as rightness. Praise Jehova. |
| Mark Gonzales |
How can someone be saved if there entrance into the kingdom is not valid. They still in the outside. |
| Mark Gonzales |
it all starts with faith |
| Mark Gonzales |
no Grace |
|
| Mark Gonzales |
for by Grace are ye saved |
| Ricky Grimsley |
Is grace greek for baptism? |
| Mark Gonzales |
many bealive but dont get to enter the kingdom |
| Vlad Stepanov |
Mark, just type everything in one big paragraph. It’s easier to read. |
1 |
| Mark Gonzales |
😛 |
|
| Mark Gonzales |
Grace is Gods favor, you did nothing to deserve it |
| Mark Gonzales |
then faith is the substance |
| Ricky Grimsley |
When i describe my thoughts on the godhead i get labeled “oneness” but im obviously not. |
1 |
| David Lewayne Porter |
If they believe and don’t get to enter then they do not truly believe Because believe means accept and apply, as in application of and conforming to.Greek 041004100 πιστεύω [PISTEU/W] {pisteúÅ} \pist-yoo’-o\ from 4102; to have faith (in, upon, or with respect to, a person or thing), i.e. credit; by implication, to entrust (especially one’s spiritual well-being to Christ):–believe(-r), commit (to trust), put in trust with. See Greek 4102.041024102 πίστις [PI/STIS] {pÃstis} \pis’-tis\ from 3982; persuasion, i.e. credence; moral conviction (of religious truth, or the truthfulness of God or a religious teacher), especially reliance upon Christ for salvation; abstractly, constancy in such profession; by extension, the system of religious (Gospel) truth itself:–assurance, belief, believe, faith, fidelity. See Greek 3982.039823982 πείθω [PEI/QW] {peÃthÅ} \pi’-tho\ a primary verb; to convince (by argument, true or false); by analogy, to pacify or conciliate (by other fair means); reflexively or passively, to assent (to evidence or authority), to rely (by inward certainty):–agree, assure, believe, have confidence, be (wax) conflent, make friend, obey, persuade, trust, yield. |
| Charles Page |
this is what John MacArthur teaches and I reject it |
| David Lewayne Porter |
Charles Page teaches what,That you have to conform to the teaching or you don’t actually believe it? |
| Mark Gonzales |
no the thing is that they dont seek after God. Many do bealive and are in false doctrines and they dont enter or if they are in wrong doctrine they dont seek God , for revelation |
| Charles Page |
right doctrine does not save -believing right doctrine doesn’t save Only God saves and that through the death of his Son |
1 |
| Mark Gonzales |
bealiving leads to applying |
1 |
| Mark Gonzales |
yes faith in Jesus , bealiving his word |
1 |
| Mark Gonzales |
If you didnt receive the word of salvation how would of you been saved. |
1 |
| Charles Page |
wrong doctrine does not damn anyone from heaven. |
| Mark Gonzales |
Right Doctrine, Right Jesus, Right direction , Right entrance |
1 |
| Mark Gonzales |
the truth shall set you free |
| Charles Page |
Mark Gonzales all are saved the same way regardless if you are infant or aged adult, incapacitated or not – it is of grace anyone is saved. |
| Mark Gonzales |
“See to it that no one misleads you. For many will come in My name, saying, ‘I am the Christ,’ and will mislead many.†|
1 |
| Mark Gonzales |
There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death. |
1 |
| Charles Page |
Mark Gonzales there’s a difference between entering heaven and entering the kingdom here on earth. You must be born again. |
1 |
| Mark Gonzales |
If the people that preach to you follow doctrine as the bible teaches. You are good. |
1 |
| Mark Gonzales |
yes born , but if someone says you dont need to be born, just bealive. Thats false doctrine |
| Charles Page |
you get into the kingdom by way of good theology! |
| Mark Gonzales |
bible words, Gods word right path |
| David Lewayne Porter |
Mark Gonzales truth MAKE you free |
1 |
| Mark Gonzales |
his word is truth |
| Charles Page |
we are not born again because we believe rather we believe because we have been born again. It would be incredulous to think a non-born again person can go through a ritual to be born again. Baptize a dead man and you have a wet corpse. Let the Holy Spirit baptize a corpse and he is a child of God!!! |
1 |
| David Lewayne Porter |
Jesus said John 7:37 In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink.38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.It MUST BE as the SCRIPTURE SAITH.Nothing else will get you there. |
| Charles Page |
Jesus was calling born again people to believe on him. A lot of born again people (can’t we all testify to that) don’t have rivers of living water flowing out from them.Corpses will never have living water flow out from them however once born again you have the grand opportunity to have the river flow out from your innermost being. |
| David Lewayne Porter |
Charles Page so why don’t they have the rivers flowing, do not they make Christ a liar, or are they liars for living beneath what Christ provided for them?The issue is the believer falling short, not the supply of God being short. |
| Timothy D McCune |
I was baptized in a oneness Jesus only church at 7 and it was In “Jesus ” name. Mark Gonzales as I’ve said we share a similar background. I see nothing wrong with both formulas to be honest the Pastor saying in The name of the Father,Son,Holy Ghost knows he is talking about Jesus the person being baptized knows it the church knows it God knows it. Mark look up Pastor David Lamb and his church in Kentucky. |
| David Lewayne Porter |
Then are the Jehovah Witnesses that baptize in Jehovah’s name (only) fulfilling the same commandment?If you hold to “I was baptized in a oneness Jesus only church at 7 and it was In “Jesus ” name. Mark Gonzales as I’ve said we share a similar background. I see nothing wrong with both formulas to be honest the Pastor saying in The name of the Father, Son, Holy Ghost knows he is talking about Jesus the person being baptized knows it the church knows it God knows it.”Then you have to say that they are correct, is that what we are saying? |
| Timothy D McCune |
No David because Jehovah Witness hold to many false beliefs. |
| David Lewayne Porter |
Agreed, (on the Jehovah Witnesses) only.So how MANY false beliefs does it take?Is that God’s determination or man’s?This thread seems to be following men instead of Jesus’ words on baptism Matt 28:19,, and that places “us” on almost the same footing as the JW.Do we think Charles Russell started out totally wrong?angel of light 2 Cor 11:14 And no marvel; for satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their worksAnd 1 John 4:1 Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.So where do we start in stopping error and hold to the truth.This thread is not following the Words of Jesus.Is it? They are following the actions of men. Even though the disciples were awesome men and walked with Jesus, and Paul saw things that we are still trying to figure out,,They were all still men.We are to follow Jesus, are we not? |
| Timothy D McCune |
We are to follow Jesus and we have His word The Bible to guide us. |
1 |
| Mark Gonzales |
ok. i always though about that, but jesus added to his sentance name. |
| Vlad Stepanov |
БиблиÑта Тв You think we got enough answers? 😉 |
| Bibliata Net |
No, not really. We haven’t seen enough answers from bro. Charles on here just yer Timothy Carter Alan N Carla Smith |
1 |
| Charles Page |
If I don’t have the answer God will show me if I pray earnestly. I have that confidence. If God don’t show it to me you don’t need to know it!!! |
2 |
| Bibliata Net |
and here am I thinking you were annointed to know it all |
| Charles Page |
<LOL> I know more than you know!! That ain’t brag just fact! |
| Bibliata Net |
all I know is what I know – I dont know about anything else 🙂 |
| Charles Page |
keep in touch, you’ll learn! |
| Timothy Carter |
If no the most Charles Page just because you’ve been on earth since before Moses. Lol |
| Mark Gonzales |
he would of said just say: baptize in father ,son and holy spirit but he said baptize in the name of…. |
| Mark Gonzales |
has any trinity baptism received the holyspirit right after coming out of the WATER. ACTS 2:38 way |
| Stan Wayne |
Of course |
|
| Mark Gonzales |
there goes stan |
| Mark Gonzales |
haha |
|
| Mark Gonzales |
show me one |
| Stan Wayne |
Oneness is so unable to look at more than a few proof texts |
| Stan Wayne |
Acts 10 |
|
| Mark Gonzales |
Whos filled with the holy spirit here? |
| Charles Page |
I’m filled with the Spirit, speaking in tongues and living water like rivers flowing out from me. |
1 |
| Mark Gonzales |
are you a trinitarian charles |
| Corey Forsyth |
I have always been curious why Peter’s instructions trumped Jesus’ in baptism? I never recall being told to be a Peterian, just a Christian… 🙂 |
| Charles Page |
The baptism with the evidence of tongues follows the new birth, always. However there is an example where they received the baptism with the evidence and then proceeded to water baptism |
2 |
| Mark Gonzales |
i seen it take 5 years, for some |
| Ricky Grimsley |
Well no doubt trinitarians dont rush to bring out some texts too. |
| Stan Wayne |
I speak in tongues more than you |
2 |
| Charles Page |
you think? Paul spoke in tongues more than me! |
| Mark Gonzales |
i speak whyle sleeping, woken up myself |
2 |
| Stan Wayne |
😉 |
|
| Ricky Grimsley |
Lol |
|
| Bibliata Net |
yeah Mark Gonzales I dont know about what you’re sayin: John 14:28 ” I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I …. hm …. I love the Father and do exactly what my Father has commanded me. …. “I am the true vine, and my Father is the gardener. … ask in my name the Father will give you. … “When the Comforter comes, whom I will send to you from the Father–the Spirit of truth who goes out from the Father–he will testify about me. … they have not known the Father or me. …. but now I am going to him who sent me …. if that were not so, would I have told you that … BUT IT SO – HE TOLD US SO |
| Ricky Grimsley |
But then there is thisJohn 14:16-18 KJVS[16] And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; [17] Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you. [18] I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.Isnt jesus saying he will come back as the spirit? |
| Bibliata Net |
So true and so Trinitarian 🙂 John Conger |
| Mark Gonzales |
remember Jesus was human and he had to live like us, but sinless and also received the holy Ghost and prayed as us, just as a human. How did God do that. Get a body and did all that. He is almighty |
| Mark Gonzales |
He had a Soul |
| Mark Gonzales |
God manifested in the Flesh 🙂 |
| Corey Forsyth |
You may speak in tongues more but if I tithe better then I get to go to Pastor’s house for dinner more often! 😛 |
2 |
| Charles Page |
Why not invite the pastor for dinner and use the tithes to buy the chicken! |
| Corey Forsyth |
Why do all the work when the Pastor’s wife can do the cooking while all I have to do is sign the check?! |
| Bibliata Net |
Bargain Barn chicken is sometimes out of date |
| Corey Forsyth |
Yeah and since I am now in a baptist church, I have to take chicken seriously! |
| Bibliata Net |
it’s the gospel bird – got to love it Tom Steele |
2 |
| Timothy D McCune |
Please forgive me if this offends anyone, I don’t think it’s necessary to say I speak in tongues more than anyone here. I understand the context Paul himself said it. I could tell you my last experience but what good would that do? |
| Mark Gonzales |
It builds you up. Talk as much as you can |
| Mark Gonzales |
its no competition |
| Timothy D McCune |
I suppose I’m a lot more private about such things. I tend to keep my closet prayer time there , special touches from God just for me in private. |
| Charles Page |
no offense – however Paul seemed to have a competitive edge in the realm of the gifts. |
1 |
| Charles Page |
at the least we should never discourage anyone from any of the gifts especially the gifts involving tongues. We should encourage one another in every way possible. A lot of Pentecostals need some good encouragement without coercion! |
| Stan Wayne |
It is humor but it is true that people who understand that “in the name of” means “by the authority of” or “in the reputation of” or “in the way of” and care little about the words in the liturgy can speak in tongues much |
| Bibliata Net |
Stan and Charles speak mostly in tongues because they know speaking in tongues is necessary for their salvation 🙂 |
| Stan Wayne |
I am a salvation by faith alone guy |
| Bibliata Net |
any believer who drinks says they are too 🙂 |
| Charles Page |
my only requirement for salvation is for God to do His part! |
| Corey Forsyth |
My question with tongues is this. Personally, I have spoken in tongues but do not do so regularly. I have operated more in other gifts more frequently. Does this mean that I am less Christian than everyone that speaks in tongues regularly? Also, why are we judged/judging others based on tongues more than anything else? It seems that the emphasis on tongues is rather extreme. Ironically, in my somewhat skeptical opinion, it also happens to be the most easily manufactured gift listed. Now that I’ve thrown gas on the fire, I will sit back and watch the world burn… 🙂 |
| Bibliata Net |
Corey Forsyth you may need to talk to Christopher Hart about that |
| Charles Page |
the fruit are the easiest to manufacture; however tongues are easy to manufacture. The frontal lobe produces the fake! |
| Christopher Hart |
No way are you a lesser Christian Corey. Tongues are a wonderful gift, but they are nonetheless only one among many. The Spirit divides them severally as He will. There are differing gifts, but the same Spirit. ;-)IMO, the reason tongues are so overemphasized is a faulty interpretation held as a defining mark among Pentecostals and Charismatics concerning tongues as “the” initial evidence of Spirit baptism. |
| Charles Page |
Corey, you need to talk to God about that. |
| Bibliata Net |
This is so deep Alan N Carla would you pls record this |
2 |
| Corey Forsyth |
In all sincerity, I have been. More now than ever before. I do not in any way wish to deny or miss any of the gifts, however, I am passionately determined to never misuse them in trying to force them in my life. I do sincerely have questions that I haven’t found answers for yet and am just patiently waiting for the clarity from God that I need. 🙂 |
1 |
| Charles Page |
use them freely and let others worry about the misuse. The fear of misusing the gifts is the greatest hindrance to the use of the gifts. Let go and let God have his way. |
1 |
| Ricky Grimsley |
Id like to know how people who werent baptized in jesus name are speaking in tongues anyway. Lol jk. |
| Bibliata Net |
I’d like to know how people who drink are speaking in tongues |
| Ricky Grimsley |
Who drinks? |
| Bibliata Net |
the people who believe drinking is not a sin |
| Vlad Stepanov |
I just drank 2 cups of tea. |
| Bibliata Net |
this is called Theology-on-Tea Alan N Carla Smith |
1 |
| Ricky Grimsley |
I dont believe drinking is sin but it sure would hurt my witness so I dont do it. |
| Bibliata Net |
drinking tea? |
| Wahyu |
If we who are not baptized in Jesus name are not saved then how is it God has given us the baptism of Holy Ghost w evidence of tongues? |
| Ricky Grimsley |
True story. I was at a benny hinn conference back in 92 and the group were telling jokes behind me while the speaker was speaking. The speaker said “everyone needs to pray in the spirit right now” and they started on command right behind me. I was like ….really people? |
1 |
| Bibliata Net |
Charles Page was at a benny hinn conference once |
| Timothy D McCune |
I personally believe Benny hinn is a false prophet. |
| Bibliata Net |
I personally believe Charles Page is the Soddy Daisy prophet Alan N Carla Smith |
| Charles Page |
I have heard Steve Brock try to preach! He’s better at leading singing…he doesn’t need theology for that! |
| Timothy D McCune |
^ lol I have no idea what that is. |
| Bibliata Net |
flesh and blood have not told you that Charles Page |
| Charles Page |
БиблиÑта Тв Soddy Daisy, what a name for a Church!!! |
| Terry Wiles |
Charles Page. That is a sad commentary on today’s worship music |
1 |
| Ricky Grimsley |
I love eddie james. https://youtu.be/D4R-guBQxc8 |
| Bibliata Net |
and I love Dean Martin 🙂 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mN7LW0Y00kE |
| Bibliata Net |
We are all baptized in Jesus name. The problem is when some are not baptized also in the name of the Father and the Holy Spirit 🙂 |
2 |
| Ricky Grimsley |
You mean like this? |
3 |
| Corey Forsyth |
This is hilarious |
1 |
| Charles Page |
does this meme break a commandment? |
| Charles Page |
should we make digital images of God? |
| Ricky Grimsley |
Not that i am aware of. |
| Charles Page |
Personally, I am cautious about making graven images of Christ. It is more personal for me..I don’t like passion plays that portray Christ. |
| Mark Gonzales |
the problem is you arent invoking his name |
| Curtis Fenison |
God made a image of God for us. The Image is a man. He is the Jesus Christ. Any other type of Image to represent God is an idol. But a image by God of a man as Jesus Christ is the revealed image of God and is therefore not an idol. |
| Wahyu |
Mark Gonzales what about his new name? |
| Mark Gonzales |
The name above all names |
| Mark Gonzales |
? |
|
| Charles Page |
what will we do if we get to heaven and Jesus is African? |
| Wahyu |
Do we have to pronounce it English or Aramaic? |
| Charles Page |
neither |
|
| Mark Gonzales |
For God is not the author of confussion |
| Wahyu |
Can we baptize in the name of Joshua since it’s the same name? |
| Ricky Grimsley |
Lololololol |
|
| Mark Gonzales |
Jesus is the right one, as the scriptures speaks |
| Ricky Grimsley |
I wonder what words john the baptist used. |
| Wahyu |
you know Joshua and Jesus are both translated from Yeshua right? |
| Mark Gonzales |
john baptism, they all got rebaptise |
| Mark Gonzales |
in Jesus name |
| Mark Gonzales |
really, well the right name. I dont thing God will give us wrong name to Use |
| Mark Gonzales |
the scriptures are God breathed |
| Ricky Grimsley |
So who got baptized like this. Matthew 28:19 KJVS[19] Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: |
| Mark Gonzales |
In the ACTS of the apostles. Wich there is no Amen on the end of The book, it still continues till now. I understand it as the apostles did. In Jesus name |
| Mark Gonzales |
Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. Acts 2:38 |
| Ricky Grimsley |
So you choose to avoid my question? |
| Wahyu |
Mark Gonzales i dont konw what that means. do you ever answer directly |
| Mark Gonzales |
no one did using the 3 titles |
| Mark Gonzales |
who did I ask you? |
| Mark Gonzales |
show me and ill get baptize like that |
| Ricky Grimsley |
Matthew 28:19 KJVS[19] Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: |
| Wahyu |
Mark Gonzales you never answered me. do you believe someone should say “in Jesus name” over everything they do? |
| Ricky Grimsley |
Jesus could have said go baptize in my name? Right? |
| Mark Gonzales |
, because all 3 are him |
| Mark Gonzales |
its nothing wrong to invoke the name. |
| Mark Gonzales |
over anything, did he denied us to say it |
| Mark Gonzales |
well show me the baptisms??? |
| Mark Gonzales |
in titles |
|
| Mark Gonzales |
i promise ill change my baptism, ill even video tape it. |
| Wahyu |
baptizing in the name of Jesus can be done without words. just like everything else you do in Jesus name which you do with saying it out loud. Because its done in His authority. therefore its done “in his name”. but this is obviously a subject you want to avoid. kinda like the corinth church being confused about whose name paul baptized in |
| Ricky Grimsley |
You wouldnt need to change for me because i feel they are both adequate to fulfill the symbolism. |
| Mark Gonzales |
it has to be in the scriptures. You cant just make it up. I will get baptized in the name of the father son holyspirit if you show me were its at. I am baptized in Jesus name now , just as the apostles baptized |
| Mark Gonzales |
doesn it say one baptism |
| Mark Gonzales |
why are you changing it to two? |
| Ricky Grimsley |
Who is making it two. Its just words. Is it a different baptism if we say it in spanish? |
| Wahyu |
Ricky Grimsley haha |
| Mark Gonzales |
i seen it done in spanish, you make it two by using different words. Read ephesians 4:5 |
| Mark Gonzales |
amen to it ephesians 4:5 |
| Mark Gonzales |
One Lord, one faith, one baptism, |
| Wahyu |
let me ask you something Mark Gonzales hopefully youll answer this one. do you believe Jesus is God now? or do you believe God left him at the cross? |
| Mark Gonzales |
He is well alive, and he is God. |
| Mark Gonzales |
well answer me were are the trinity baptisms |
| Ricky Grimsley |
So again what doe this mean?Matthew 28:19 KJVS[19] Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: |
| Ricky Grimsley |
I wonder if my oneness baptism was cancelled out by my trinitarian baptism. |
| Mark Gonzales |
go he says to them(apostles) and theach all people of all nation, Baptizing them in the name : of the Father …. and of the Son… and of the HOly Ghost. |
| Mark Gonzales |
did the apostles agree??? answer that please. Yes or NO. Did they do it? |
| Wahyu |
Mark Gonzales so how do you explain God forsaking him on the cross. or 1 Cor. 15 when the son becomes subject to the father? |
| Wahyu |
almsot every oneness that i know believe that God left him on the cross |
| Mark Gonzales |
only God knows, you didnt answer me that question |
| Ricky Grimsley |
I thinks the apostles understood that baptism was about obedience and not about magic words. |
| Mark Gonzales |
he did live and walked right. He left him to die there for all the sins of the people |
| Wahyu |
what does that mean? and what question did you ask me? |
| Mark Gonzales |
go he(Jesus) says to them(apostles) and theach all people of all nations, Baptizing them in the Name : of the Father …. and of the Son… and of the HOly Ghost. |
| Mark Gonzales |
did the apostles agree??? answer that please. Yes or NO. Did they do it? did the do what Jesus told them to do? |
| Wahyu |
of course. everything they did was done in jesus name. you just wont accept that that means in his authority, not spoken words. now you answer me. |
| Wahyu |
as you baptize in the name of the father son Holy Ghost you are doing it in Jesus name. |
| Mark Gonzales |
that what they said is the key. Jesus name. No other name by we must be saved. Then follow their example! |
| Mark Gonzales |
And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord. |
| Wahyu |
it never says they spoke those words. if you can show me a quote then ill believe it. but just like everything is to be in Jesus name baptizing in the name of the Father son Holy Ghost is done in Jesus name. |
| Mark Gonzales |
callingggg on the nameee of the LORD. |
| Mark Gonzales |
acts 22:16 agrees with it |
| Mark Gonzales |
not you |
|
| Wahyu |
we all call on the name of the Lord Jesus. eveything youre posting proves nothing |
| Mark Gonzales |
Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved. |
| Mark Gonzales |
NO other name under Heaven |
| Mark Gonzales |
can use marcos, cant use miguel cant use john. Or titles. Just “JESUS” |
| Wahyu |
Mark Gonzales so God did leave him??? or not? |
| Wahyu |
nothing you are posting proves your point. |
| Mark Gonzales |
in the cross you mean? |
| Mark Gonzales |
it does, scripture talks |
| Mark Gonzales |
i dont see any trinitary, prove it. scripture talks. None apostles baptised in trinity form |
| Wahyu |
so he was only a man on the cross? |
| Mark Gonzales |
Yes a man, who took the sins of many and Died |
| Wahyu |
so you believe man was able to reconcile himself to God? so when did he become God again? |
| Mark Gonzales |
any sinner will die with their sins, if they dont bealive and repent. Jesus took mine on the cross |
| Mark Gonzales |
Yes through Christ , he standed infront of me and took the death of sin that i may live |
| Mark Gonzales |
he is God, in the flesh |
| Mark Gonzales |
who else could of done it???any one else more powerful than him. any one more love for us than him? who?? |
| Mark Gonzales |
He Loves us all |
| Wahyu |
wow. so how is he God but God left him? was he 2 people? |
| Mark Gonzales |
he is ONE. Do you bealive he is almighthy . all powerful. make himself as many as he likes. Or do you limit him |
| Mark Gonzales |
jesus as the word says, he is the Son. and his word also says he is God. I bealive both |
| Wahyu |
how is he still God if God left him? you already said he was just a man on the cross. when did he become God again please explain. |
| Mark Gonzales |
only God knows how he did all that. but i know scripture says that Jesus is his son. Then scripture says that God was incarnated |
| Ricky Grimsley |
|
1 |
| Wahyu |
lol ok if you say so. |
| Mark Gonzales |
I dont deny him being the Son or being God. because it says it |
| Mark Gonzales |
Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD: |
| Mark Gonzales |
Israel his chosen people, knew that he is ONE. Im with israel. are you |
| Mark Gonzales |
amen to this or no |
| Wahyu |
yep we believe that. once again posting pointless things |
| Mark Gonzales |
Gods word aint pointless, its sound Doctrine |
| Wahyu |
it doesnt prove your doctirne. at all. its pointless in this discussion |
| Mark Gonzales |
what do you want to discuss itchi ears doctrine |
| Mark Gonzales |
For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; |
| Wahyu |
no we believe there is only one Lord. just not like you. |
| Mark Gonzales |
all i showened you is straight doctrine. You didnt show me trinity baptisms |
| Mark Gonzales |
you couldnt show me sound doctrine of trinity baptism in the apostolic acts book. |
| Wahyu |
thats pretty elementary.are you saying you dont know the scriptures for the Godhead? |
| Mark Gonzales |
because it aint there. Its false |
| Mark Gonzales |
look all i wanted the proof of sound doctrine . that they baptise in trinity |
| Mark Gonzales |
there is no sound doctrine for the trinity in ACTS |
| Wahyu |
baptizing in “JESUS NAME” IS NOT THE WORDS SPOKEN OVER THE PERSON!! can you show me where they spoke it????? NO you cant. because they never said it and you cant show me a quote because it aint there |
| Mark Gonzales |
ok hold on |
| Mark Gonzales |
In Acts 8:16, “. . . Only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.” Acts 10:48, “And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord.” Acts 19:5, “When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.” |
| Wahyu |
not the words spoken. means in. his authority. justlike Col. 3:1 says everything should be done. but you dont speak the words over everything you do. therefoe you have a double standard |
| Mark Gonzales |
Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: |
| Mark Gonzales |
who has authorityto forgive Sins? |
| Wahyu |
once again you didnt rovide a quote of them saying it (cause its not there) and youre avoinding the point again? ok im done. remember when you only read the bible to prove what you already believe you limit your understanding. |
| Mark Gonzales |
ill answer that. Jesus does |
| Mark Gonzales |
But that ye may know that the Son of man hath power on earth to forgive sins, Matthew 9:6 |
| Mark Gonzales |
who died for Us |
| Mark Gonzales |
ill answer that: “JESUS” Peter 3:18 (KJV) For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: |
| Mark Gonzales |
who have you put on when you got baptize |
| Mark Gonzales |
ill answer that : For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. |
| Mark Gonzales |
how do we get baptize into christ. Just water??? |
| Mark Gonzales |
Ill answer that: Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved. In his name there is salvation , so if you get baptize into Christ saying his name your sins are forgiven, for he is the son who can forgive sins |
| Mark Gonzales |
Father, son and holy spirit are titles and you can call me a father, but what father is it. I know Jesus if in baptism, Son what son?? theres many sons, ahh ok Jesus the son …. |
| Ricky Grimsley |
So how is jesus a mediator if there is only one? |
| Ricky Grimsley |
What does this mean?Galatians 3:20 KJVS[20] Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but God is one. |
| Mark Gonzales |
Jesus spirit |
| Mark Gonzales |
Why is the spirit speaks to God if the holy spirit is God? |
| Mark Gonzales |
God is spirit |
| Mark Gonzales |
And without controversy great is the mistery of Godliness, God was manifested in the flesh, justified in the spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the gentiles , bealived on in the world, received up into glory 1 Timothy 3:16 |
| Mark Gonzales |
Mistery!. God manifested |
| Ricky Grimsley |
If there is one mediator between God and man that makes three things in a scripture like that. 1 Timothy 2:5 KJVS[5] For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; does not the “mediation” show that God, Jesus, and the Spirit have three different wills at least? |
| Mark Gonzales |
I understand ur point because God said jesus is his son. I bealive it too. But the scripture above tells you that jesus man is God |
| Mark Gonzales |
Manifested in the flesh. How he does that for God to be flesh and mediate from a body is a mystery |
| Mark Gonzales |
Great!! Is the mystery |
| Mark Gonzales |
I bealive in the son , and also that the son is God. It says that if you dont know who the son is that you will die in your sins. |
| Mark Gonzales |
Sorry father he says |
| Ricky Grimsley |
But seriously how do mediate with yourself. If the father and jesus are the same mediation is pointless. |
| Mark Gonzales |
I understand. We dont have the answer for that. But we have to bealive the scriptures as written. So if you know that the fatherGod got manifested in the flesh. You know that Jesus is son. Then you know that the name of the father son and holy spirit is Jesus. And of you get baptise in Jesus name , you wont die in your sins |
| Mark Gonzales |
Because you know who the father is. Jesus told all , you still dont know who I am. Those that didnt know |
| Ricky Grimsley |
But dont we have the answer? I am one body i also have three wills. Does not the flesh want some things but the soul and spirit influence what we do. The body does but the mind decides and the spirit influence but we are all one but we are also three. |
| Wahyu |
In ex. 3 the angel (messenger) of the Lord appeared unto Moses and said he was YHWH . So if the father if Jehovah then who sent Jehovah? |
| Ricky Grimsley |
#boom |
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| Mark Gonzales |
Yhwh the I am? |
| Mark Gonzales |
U ask |
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| Mark Gonzales |
You must not bealive thatGod speaks through angels and preachers. He can make himself an angel. He can trow his voice from heaven. He can write words on walls invisibly. Jesus the i am |
| Mark Gonzales |
John 8:58, the i am . son he is and by revation is God |
| Mark Gonzales |
You limit Gods power. Maybe even the gifts of the spirit. He doesnt fit in our thinking. His ways are past knowing and are higher than our ways |
| Mark Gonzales |
He can stop the rain. He is in all and through all |
| Mark Gonzales |
Colossians 1:17 all held togheter by him |
| Mark Gonzales |
After in exodus it says lord and also God. Do you make the messanger higher than the Lord |
| Ricky Grimsley |
God sure went out of his way to show himself as three just to be a big ruse. Wants the point of all the “father” “son” stuff. Jesus could have just said, “hey dudes. Later when you pray to me i will hear you.” Instead he said our father who arent in heaven and all that. There are three that bear record in heaven. Yeah they are one but they are three. |
| Mark Gonzales |
Why didnt he jist saved us alll and forget the sacrifice |
| Mark Gonzales |
He is the author. Did you write this life. This test. Of life |
| Mark Gonzales |
Write a book and ill tell you why did you do it that way. |
| Mark Gonzales |
From what scripture says it was for his pleasure |
| Mark Gonzales |
What is your pleasure to write a book |
| Mark Gonzales |
He made good and evil. Did you know that |
| Mark Gonzales |
What verse you ask |
| Ricky Grimsley |
You really feel that God get pleasure from sending people to hell? |
| Mark Gonzales |
Didnt he harden pharoes heart. He knows from befgining to end and wants all saved , but he gave us free will |
| Ricky Grimsley |
Thats ludicrous. You cant have it both ways. He cant exhaustively know the future and give us free will. Either the future is set or it isnt. |
| Ricky Grimsley |
He declares the end from the beginning because he makes the end happen by his awesomeness. |
| Mark Gonzales |
He tells us to pray that many be saved.why when he can |
| Mark Gonzales |
he is choosing people that love him and do his will for his kingdom |
| Ricky Grimsley |
Because its his will that people be saved and that we help. But i dont believe he knows all the people that will be saved. |
| Mark Gonzales |
He know. Dont limit him. Do you knpw every grain of sand or the name of every star |
| Mark Gonzales |
He does. Geee God is not little |
| Ricky Grimsley |
No i dont. But he knows because it exists. The future does not exist so he doesnt know it yet. |
| Mark Gonzales |
He said to preach the gospel to the poor. But then he says that je is longsuffering for he wants all to be saved.as well as rich people |
| Mark Gonzales |
He know who is gona be saved. |
| Ricky Grimsley |
My god isnt little because he didnt make robots. |
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| Mark Gonzales |
Whats revelation to you |
| Mark Gonzales |
Well then realize and bealive colossians 2:9 that the whole God head dwells in christ |
| Mark Gonzales |
The fullness of the God head. So that means thats the father |
| Mark Gonzales |
The father is in jesus |
| Ricky Grimsley |
And i believe that. |
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| Mark Gonzales |
Revelation is the future my friend |
| Mark Gonzales |
The book of revelation |
| Wahyu |
The angel declared “I am” (Jehovah) but it says he was sent by God. So who sent God? |
| Ricky Grimsley |
Its the future that god will make happen. How many times did jesus say or do something “that the scriptures might be fulfilled. |
| Mark Gonzales |
Who sends the preachers. And who is it that speaks |
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| Mark Gonzales |
Those scriptures were prophesies completed by jesus. That means what God wrote happened and knew what was comming. Thats revelation too , the book. It speaks of future events |
| Mark Gonzales |
Many prophesies of the old testament were completed in the new. Its future.God knew |
| John Bernard |
Practice God’s law is necessary for salvation |
| Ken Prewett |
If so, then Jesus lied to the theif on the cross |
| Ken Prewett |
meanwhile, In the fallen world….hundreds more just slipped into eternity. |
| Charles Page |
when we die do we ‘slip’ into eternity or in a waiting period in time waiting for the final resurrection? Time still passes by in the life after death. “time no more” comes at final glorification. |
| Stan Wayne |
I can’t believe my eyes : law necessary for salvation -“Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree: That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.â€Galatians 3:13-14 KJV |
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| Stan Wayne |
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| Stan Wayne |
We need to agree on the most basic principle of Christianity – how to become a Christian – or Discussion is stymied |
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| Charles Page |
How does a person tell an unregenerate person how to be regenerate – teach that and you will be a trillionaire! |
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| Stan Wayne |
I don’t get that comment^^^ Jesus does a good job in John 3 |
| Charles Page |
Jesus does not say how to be born again but He says you MUST be born again. Nicodemus answers the ‘how to’ part very clearly!Jesus always does a good job, the Father also and the Holy Spirit does a good job applying regeneration. What do we do after being regenerate? |
| Bibliata Net |
Stan Charles Did JESUS speak in tongues? |
| Charles Page |
I don’t think there is a record of him speaking in tongues. |
| Mark Gonzales |
well he did walk in the gifts of the spirit |
| Mark Gonzales |
some |
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| David Lewayne Porter |
John 3:34 For he whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God: for God giveth not the Spirit by measure unto him.35 The Father loveth the Son, and hath given all things into his hand.Jesus did not have to speak in tongues. I did not need the gifts. He was all in all. |
| Stan Wayne |
I doubt it because tongues will be done away when Jesus comes – but his emptying kenosis is an issue and the fact Jesus was an Old Covenant man is another |
| Bibliata Net |
why does Matthew say the words of Christ on the cross were “interpreted” instead of which means, is, translates, etc. ? 🙂 |
| Stan Wayne |
That is silly – too easy – that is an English problem – he was speaking in either Hebrew with a Nazareth accent when he said Eli Eli or he was speaking in Aramaic dialect and Matthew translates it for Greek speaking Jews and translates it as My God My God for them – the bystanders thought they heard Elias |
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| Bibliata Net |
“thought they heard Elias” because Jesus was not speaking in neither of the languages known to the people present at the cross |
| Stan Wayne |
Jesus was clearly saying Eli and it was misheard as Elias |
| Bibliata Net |
“Clearly” ? What are you basing your hemeneutics on? The Bible clearly states that Jesus was not clearly saying Elias… |
| Stan Wayne |
Yes the scripture says he said Eli:Matthew 27:4646 and about the ninth hour Jesus cried out with a great voice, saying, ‘Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani?’ that is, ‘My God, my God, why didst Thou forsake me?’46 peri G4012 PREP de G1161 CONJ tÄ“n G3588 T-ASF enatÄ“n G1766 A-ASF Åran G5610 N-ASF aneboÄ“sen G310 G5656 V-AAI-3S o G3588 T-NSM iÄ“sous G2424 N-NSM phÅnÄ“ G5456 N-DSF megalÄ“ G3173 A-DSF legÅn G3004 G5723 V-PAP-NSM Ä“li G2241 HEB Ä“li G2241 HEB lima G2982 ARAM sabachthani G4518 ARAM tout G5124 D-NSN estin G2076 G5748 V-PXI-3S thee G2316 N-VSM mou G3450 P-1GS thee G2316 N-VSM mou G3450 P-1GS ina G2443 CONJ ti G5101 I-ASN me G3165 P-1AS enkatelipes G1459 G5627 V-2AAI-2S |
| Ricky Grimsley |
Not in my bible. Mark 15:34 KJVS[34] And at the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani? which is, being interpreted, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me? |
| Bibliata Net |
None of the Gospel writers knew what these words meant. Hence, they wrote it is interpreted NOT means or is translated. Stan Wayne should we go to real Greek instead of Strong’s numbers? |
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| Stan Wayne |
Mark 15:3434 and at the ninth hour Jesus cried with a great voice, saying, ‘Eloi, Eloi, lamma sabachthani?’ which is, being interpreted, ‘My God, my God, why didst Thou forsake me?’Mark 15:3535 And certain of those standing by, having heard, said, ‘Lo, Elijah he doth call;’Mark 15:3434 kai G2532 CONJ tÄ“ G3588 T-DSF Åra G5610 N-DSF tÄ“ G3588 T-DSF enatÄ“ G1766 A-DSF eboÄ“sen G994 G5656 V-AAI-3S o G3588 T-NSM iÄ“sous G2424 N-NSM phÅnÄ“ G5456 N-DSF megalÄ“ G3173 A-DSF legÅn G3004 G5723 V-PAP-NSM elÅi G1682 ARAM elÅi G1682 ARAM lima G2982 ARAM sabachthani G4518 ARAM o G3739 R-NSN estin G2076 G5748 V-PXI-3S methermÄ“neuomenon G3177 G5746 V-PPP-NSN o G3588 T-NSM theos G2316 N-NSM mou G3450 P-1GS o G3588 T-NSM theos G2316 N-NSM mou G3450 P-1GS eis G1519 PREP ti G5101 I-ASN me G3165 P-1AS enkatelipes G1459 G5627 V-2AAI-2SMark 15:3535 kai G2532 CONJ tines G5100 X-NPM tÅn G3588 T-GPM parestÄ“kotÅn G3936 G5761 V-RAP-GPM akousantes G191 G5660 V-AAP-NPM elegon G3004 G5707 V-IAI-3P idou G2400 G5628 V-2AAM-2S Ä“lian G2243 N-ASM phÅnei G5455 G5719 V-PAI-3S |
| Stan Wayne |
We will have to study Eli, Eloi but it is not Elian |
| Stan Wayne |
It is real Greek in anglicized pronunciation for those who don’t read Greek script |
| Stan Wayne |
I will look up Eli Eloi tomorrow – deep in football with son |
| Bibliata Net |
Stan Wayne let’s do it in a separate topic instead of hijacking this one. It will be fun. I am not sure if Jesus spoke in tongues on the cross, but I am pretty sure I have not found 2 scholars agreeing 100% what He said with Eli, Eli on the cross 🙂 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Language_of_Jesus… |
| Stan Wayne |
Well ok – maybe Jesus wasn’t saved? |
| Timothy D McCune |
Jesus is God there was not a need for salvation. |
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| Stan Wayne |
Yes the incarnation and human nature is tough but i was being facetious to show not necessary for him to speak in tongues for many reasons |
| Link Hudson |
Absolutely not. Its ridiculous to think so in light of scripture. |
| Bibliata Net |
to think what exactly? |
| Stan Wayne |
He is referring directly to the question in the OP – good thing to do |
| Link Hudson |
To think that one has to speak in tongues to be saved. |
| Bibliata Net |
Stan Wayne I bet 5 different people have 5 different opinions what exactly OP means |
| Stan Wayne |
Is this confusing (original post):Do you think speaking in tongues is necessary for salvation? |
| Stan Wayne |
It is really sad that people actually need to ask such a question – as if the disciples in Acts 1, Acts 8 and Acts 19 were not saved prior to tongues; as if centuries passed with most Christians lost – sad inability to grasp scripture |
| Link Hudson |
Something that caused me to really realize the weakness of the initial evidence position was reading through Oneness arguments on tongues being necessary for salvation. |
| Stan Wayne |
I can go either way on initial evidence – I sort of teeter seeing both sides – but I don’t see the connection to oneness – they do not understand the distinction between indwelling and the coming upon |
| Link Hudson |
Also the idea that tongues HAS to occur when one receives the Spirit (in whatever sense) can’t really be proven with scripture. Even in Acts 10 and 19, it is not clear that all who received the Spirit spoke in tongues. If half magnified God in Greek and half spoke in tongues, that still fits the Acts 10 situation. If half prophesied and half spoke in tongues, that still fits Acts 19. |
| Stan Wayne |
I understand – it is a dilemma but hard to fit the frequency of tongues occurrence and unanimity of Acts 2 and 10 and Paul and perhaps Acts 8 with it as just any other gift divided severally – perhaps if we included it in a broader “this is that” criteria of Joel and Peter a la Acts 2 ….? |
| Link Hudson |
Stan Wayne, Unanimity is not proven in Acts 10. |
| Stan Wayne |
I think it is – I am not sold on I.E. Completely but : This is very strong evidence of unanimity :“While Peter was still saying these things, the Holy Spirit fell on all who heard the word. And the believers from among the circumcised who had come with Peter were amazed, because the gift of the Holy Spirit was poured out even on the Gentiles. For they were hearing them speaking in tongues and extolling God. Then Peter declared,â€Acts 10:44-46 ESV |
| Stan Wayne |
So is : “As I began to speak, the Holy Spirit fell on them just as on us at the beginning. And I remembered the word of the Lord, how he said, ‘John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.’ If then God gave the same gift to them as he gave to us when we believed in the Lord Jesus Christ, who was I that I could stand in God’s way?â€â€Acts 11:15-17 ESV |
| Link Hudson |
Stan Wayne And if some were extolling God in Greek and some were speaking in tongues, those verses would still be just as true. It’s not conclusive. |
| Stan Wayne |
Remember :“When the day of Pentecost arrived, they were all together in one place.And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tongues as the Spirit gave them utterance.â€Acts 2:1, 4 ESV |
| David Lewayne Porter |
LoLSo then Acts 2:4 is wrong “they were all filled”.Acts 10:44 all of themVs 46,, how did they know? for only two signs were given in Acts 2 as a proof “cloven tongues like as of fire, and “spoken” tongues”- same as AT THE FIRST vs 47.Acts 19:6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.7 And all the men were about twelve.Simon – how did he know they had received Acts 8:17 Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost.18 And when Simon saw that through laying on of the apostles’ hands the Holy Ghost was given, he offered them money,19 Saying, Give me also this power, that on whomsoever I lay hands, he may receive the Holy Ghost.So then without the sign of cloven tongues like as of fire, or audible spoken language how then did they know? Your stance is weak at best. |
| Stan Wayne |
I think Acts 10 and 11 clearly shows unanimous tongues – but Joel and Peter might call that a subset of prophecy |
| David Lewayne Porter |
Stan Wayne It does not concern me what Joel (looking forward into shadows and things not yet known as fully revealed), may have called it,, or what Peter at the initial onset may have called them.Scriptures interpret Scripture, Scriptures enlighten Scriptures. The balance and totality of the Scriptures say there are outward signs to tell they are Biblically and truly Baptized and Filled.Now when the signs and the gifts work as intended by God they do compliment each other (as if a subset of each other). |
| Ricky Grimsley |
I agree. |
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| Stan Wayne |
“even the Spirit of truth….You know him, for he dwells with you and will be in you.â€John 14:17 ESV“But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you, and you will be my witnesses….â€â€Acts 1:8 ESV |
| Stan Wayne |
The historical problem is that while we contemplate out navels about the ambiguity of scripture on spirit baptism if we abandon initial evidence like Calvary Chapel has done – tongues disappears in about 30 years |
| Link Hudson |
I hear they have some gifts at their meetings at night, some of them anyway. I get the impression that a lot of CC just don’t teach or emphasize the gifts. I don’t think The Vineyard ever taught initial evidence officially, yet there were a lot of people exercising lots of gifts in the early 90’s when I got involved with them for a while. But they started taking in a lot of more ‘generic evangelical’ type churches after Wimber died. I’ve been to a Vineyard that theoretically believed in these gifts, but you didn’t see them in the meetings. |
| Link Hudson |
If tongues are required for salvation, wouldn’t that make Paul’s teachings on salvation out to be lies? |
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| Ricky Grimsley |
Its a real untenable position. You have to have blinders on. |
| Corey Forsyth |
Leave it to Link to provide the simplest and most logical answers… lol |
| Ricky Grimsley |
Perhaps he is the “missing” link. |
| Corey Forsyth |
lol Ricky Grimsley is a wild and crazy guy! |
| Ricky Grimsley |
Its sad that some “oneness” people cant get past tongues and trinitarian baptism to accept other pentecostals as even saved. 1 John 2:22-23 KJVS[22] Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son. [23] Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: (but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also . |
| Carl Murphy |
Yet they can also quote scripture, even Satan quotes scripture. Let us show the way by the way we love one to another that He might be lifted up |
| Ricky Grimsley |
Its hard to lift one another up if some dont think you are saved. |
| Carl Murphy |
It may be, but Jesus commanded us to love as he loved, does Jesus leave us when we have disappointed him, when we hurt him, he doesn’t say when you get yourself straight I will be there, no he is there the while time, right beside you, never leaving nor forsaking us, that is the standard that we are measured against |
| Wahyu |
I would agree except by using those standards would you day that Jesus treated the pharisees with love? He called them out all the time and even called them vipers |
| David Lewayne Porter |
Matt 23, an entire chapter |
| Megan Shaffer |
Ive learned from Judah Yisrael that the split of tounges in genesis to babylon was a curse. In order to spread this gospel of christ to different lands and languages the disciples needed the gift of tounges. This allowed them to travel and share the truth of christ with all regardless of the language they spoke. The tounges in the church today is definately different. |
| David Lewayne Porter |
That stance is kinda self defeating with the need ft or the gift of interpretation and the statement of “if there no interpreter let him remain silent in the church and speak at home to himself and God 1 Cor 14:28 But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God.So then if the tongues were for witnessing in other guys tongues as Acts chapter 2, you can’t reconcile 2 Cor 12 and 14 with your statement. |
| Bibliata Net |
Stan Wayne Do you think speaking in tongues is necessary for salvation?There’s a number of FREE and PRIVATE interpretation of the OP question that have nothing to do with the discussion which followed or with the true question that needed to be asked originally by OP namely:“IF one needs to be baptized with the Holy Spirit with the evidence in order to be saved and go to heavenâ€This clarification is needed because the mutiple flows in the question as asked originally:1. Do you think – what one thinks has nothing to do with what the Bible really says. A true Biblical discussion should be concerned with what the Bible says, not what one thinks that the Bible say or thinks in their private interpretation of whatever they believe beside the Bible2. Speaking in tongues in the Bible could mean a number of things- speaking your own mother tongue – speaking in a foreign tongue learned by the speker- speaking a tongue as initial evidence for the baptism with the Holy Spirit- speaking in tongues the gift of the Holy Spirit with interpretation- hence, xenolalia, glassolalia (and the other New Testament lalias)3. The “necessary for salvation†phrase could also have a double meaning:- is it necessary for one to speak in tongues (and what tongues exactly) at the moment of salvation?- is it necessary for one to speak in tongues (and what tongues exactly) during his/her Christian life so they can have the power to witness and endure to his/her salvific end?4. As a Biblical relevance to salvation, the question could also mean a number of things:- does tongue speaking occur at salvation?- If it’s with the baptism, then is it glassolalia or xenolalia?- or is the author referring to a believing with heart and confessing with mouth in your mother tongues in order to be saved? – also a type of the unspecified “tongue speakingâ€From the original context of the question’s author and his personal experience as an Eastern European Pentecostal comes the assumption (but only an assumption) that in his tradition in order for one to be recognized as saved, they have to be baptized in the Holy Spirit (this is assumed and not asked by the asker) PLUS/AND speaking in tongues (as initial evidence – also assumed and not asked by the asker) in order for one to be declared saved a.k.a known as fullness in the Spirit. Overall the way the question was asked here was misleading and deviating from what we really need to talk about as Pentecostal theologians. Here’s the real question to be asked:Does a person need to be baptized with the Holy Spirit (with the sign of speaking in tongues) in order to be saved and go to heaven? |
| Stan Wayne |
No |
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| Bibliata Net |
Yap. And do they need it for their Christian walk to stay saved? |
| Stan Wayne |
Nope |
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| David Lewayne Porter |
There is a problem with “Jesus will not leave us”.That is correct, but He Never said that he would follow us into willful sin and allow continuing sin.Love also corrects when there is wrong. No correction = no true love Revelation of John 3:19As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent. 2 Timothy 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good worksEph CHAPTER 6.1 Brethren, if a man be overtaken in a fault, ye which are spiritual, restore such an one in the spirit of meekness; considering thyself, lest thou also be tempted.2 Bear ye one another’s burdens, and so fulfil the law of Christ. |
| Earl Ray Stinson |
We are saved by faith alone in Jesus Christ and then conforming to His image. Baptism is essential but not a salvation issue. Same with foot washing, communion. Speaking in tongues is a gift and a help for all we do for Him especially in our witnessing. What keeps you from receiving the Baptism of the Holy Ghost could keep you from Heaven but not speaking in tongues itself. In reference to a previous post here….speaking in tongues is “as the Spirit gives the utterance.” not on a persons whim or another’s request or demand. |
| Bibliata Net |
Earl Ray Stinson pls note the OP question is not about baptism but speaking in tongues… |
| Earl Ray Stinson |
Please read my post again. I said Speaking in Tongues is in the same category as Baptism, Communion, Feet Washing, (obviously important right?) but not essential for Salvation. You should do these things but the thief on the cross did not get his feet washed or take communion or SPEAK IN TONGUES but he was saved. Your post was more than about Speaking in tongues but about SALVATION and is tongues necessary for Salvation and the answer is obviously “NO!” |
| James Roy Locklair |
Salvation is necessary to speak with tongues |
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| Christopher Hart |
Indeed. Great reply sir. 😉 |
| Earl Ray Stinson |
Great response. |
| Link Hudson |
Iit is not necessary to prophesy. |
| Earl Ray Stinson |
YOU DON’T HAVE TO SPEAK IN TONGUES…..YOU GET TO SPEAK IN TONGUES! |
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| Troy Day |
YES |
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| Charles Page |
You don’t have to be saved to exercise spiritual gifts |
| Diana Kay Miller Sheek |
If you are not saved the only spiritual gifts you will exercise will be evil spiritual gifts. Where do you get your take on this? |
| Link Hudson |
Balaam and Caiaphas prophesied. Maybe those guys in Matthew 7 will have prophesied and cst out devils. The “children” of the Pharisees cast outdevils. |
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| Charles Page |
Jeriusalem’s invading Caldean’s prophecied |
| Tom Torbeyns |
no |
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| Henry Volk |
Only if you wanna be really really saved 😂 |
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| Troy Day |
AMEN saved sealed delivered |
| Jeffry Woolston |
Nothing but the blood of Jesus! |
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| Randal W Deese |
Although speaking in tongues is evidence of receiving the gift of the Holy Spirit, it is not evidence of salvation… |
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| W. Calvin Smith |
If it is a free gift from God why would you not want it |
Varnel Watson
YES Joshwa Bedford
Joshwa Bedford
Troy Day you’re wrong on this too
Varnel Watson
Joshwa Bedford I am not wrong that you in particular need the Holy Ghost – thats a fact right there
Joshwa Bedford
Troy Day I have the Holy Spirit I speak in tongues the Holy Spirit has used me to deliver a word in tongue of which was interpreted. You don’t know me and you don’t know my heart so don’t ever say someone doesn’t have the Holy Spirit when you don’t know. However, tongues is not required for salvation.
Varnel Watson
Joshwa Bedford I didnt say you dont have but I did say you need – care to see the difference sometimes ?
Joshwa Bedford
Troy Day “I am not wrong that you in particular need the Holy Ghost – thats a fact right there”
Varnel Watson
Joshwa Bedford yap – there; read it carefully
Joshwa Bedford
Troy Day it’s the same connotation
Varnel Watson
Joshwa Bedford OK you dont need the Holy Ghost
RichardAnna Boyce
NO
Joshwa Bedford
RichardAnna Boyce it always baffles me when people put a requirement on a free gift. Tongues is not required yet so many people make it a requirement. Paul is very clear that tongues is a gift. Furthermore that God apportions those gifts according to His will (1 Cor. 12, ESV).
Varnel Watson
Joshwa Bedford do you make difference between initial evidence and gift of tongues?
Matthew Hill
This would actually seem the majority of Christian’s around the world unsaved and destined for Hell, which even Paul wasn’t willing to say. In 1 Corinthians 12, he says that he wishes that everyone spoke in tongues, but Chrusti as an have different gifts for different purposes.
Varnel Watson
in your case I believe this to be true Jimmy Pearson
Peter Vandever some 25yrs ago RW used to tell me I need the Holy Ghost just to go to the Grocery Store 🙂
Peter Vandever
Troy Day to protect us from ” not my president”
Varnel Watson
Peter Vandever 25 yrs ago was our president … well more like 30 But NOW you DO need the HG to go to the store without a mask like the one Isara Mo designed
Isara Mo
Troy Day
Hey Troy the one you have put looks like a mouth bra.. Lol
Varnel Watson
tell us Peter Vandever Vicki Mart troll on
Vicki Mart
Peter doesn’t the difference between false motives for preaching (as Paul spoke) in Phil. 1:15 (he lso said it was galatians) and false teachers of today. He speaks without knowledge of the bible. He must be exposed according to Eph. 5:11. He is not a watchman but he aides the wolves. If you don’t expose them, then you are a wolf too.
Varnel Watson
Vicki Mart I think You are trolling Peter Vandever for a reason every single time you can
Vicki Mart
Troy Day your speculations our as bad as those mail order degrees you have.Please tell me what school that gave you a Ph.D.
Varnel Watson
Vicki Mart google me and dont forget the DMin #trollMe2
Doyle Rogers
The answer to the Question is NO! ..BUT THE ABOVE POSTS SEEM TO HAVE NO RELEVANCE WHATOEVER TO THE QUESTION. .
Varnel Watson
give us your c2 Doyle Rogers
Doyle Rogers
What do you mean by c2.
Doyle Rogers
If a person has to speak in tongues to be born again, all those before Acts chapter 2 went to hell .
Doyle Rogers
There are many chimney corner (so called) scriptures that have been concocted by some and they have become the foundation of different denominations. Have you not noted that most of them have some cruel punishment attached to them if they are not adhered to. ……………………………………………..Pro 30:5 Every word of God is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him.
Pro 30:6 Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar. .
Vicki Mart
Troy Day name your schools. Are they on-line with less than proper accreditation. Are you ashamed of them? Those mail order might fool a bunch of non-academics, but not those who have been to top tier schools. Stop trying to change the subject. I take it that they are the fly by night pay your money get a piece of paper degree.
James Michael Sanders
Vicki Mart ma’am although I may agree with you that some very ignorant statements are made by some often in this group. Someone’s degrees or accreditation mean absolutely nothing. I’ve known many men/women that attended accredited and non accredited schools and they were still biblically unsound and clearly not submitting completely to the Spirits leading and Word.
School & a title may be fine, but, it doesn’t qualify or make one unqualified.
Vicki Mart
James Michael Sanders we are not speaking of degrees in general, but those who try to be what they are not. Those who flaunt.
Vicki Mart
Where is King’s college and where is it accreditated.
Vicki Mart
James Michael Sanders I am speaking concerning those who want the prestige and use of a degree , but go to institutes whose degrees are not on par with legitimately accredited and recognized schools. There are 7 regional accrediting associations. Many of the on-line schools lack the qualifications for that high of an association so they get together and make up an association. They are not academically recognized. People try to cut corners so they can get a degree, but what is worse is when people flaunt having a degree from such institutions. You can’t fool all.
James Michael Sanders
Vicki Mart the Kings College and seminary is accredited. However, that is neither here nor there.
I’m nothing but a servant of the Lord Jesus the Christ. I served Him many years in ministry before I was able to attend The Kings College and Seminary. It was a wonderful experience, yet, much of what I studied there I learned already from the Word and the Spirit. Some may of course have varying experiences depending on their individual studies and lives.
Yet again I contend, higher education does not qualify us. The blood of Jesus, the Holy Spirit (His Spirit), and the Word is what “we all need.”
Personally I’m not a fan of flaunting titles or schools or education as so many do. Not saying it’s wrong to acknowledge it or to honor it. But it can be a slippery slope of pride if unguarded.
But again, I certainly agree I’ve seen some very ignorant and argumentative post and responses in this group that causes me to pray and weep often. I’ll even admit it’s caused a tiny bit of anger/aggravation due to the super spiritual elitist accusations made toward some, by some.
James Michael Sanders
Vicki Mart I would agree with that statement as well. I would say that’s ignorance and pride by those that do that.
Steve Losee
no. Next question?
Joshua Tesillo
Tongues that in chapter 2 is referred as Languages! Look it up it speaks out 16 different languages! No you don’t for salvation. Gospel of Grace was given to Paul! It was a mystery that keep secret until reveal to Paul from Jesus Christ above in Heaven! Once get saved the Holy Spirit seals us!
“In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.”
Ephesians 1:13-14 KJV
Varnel Watson
not really exegetically true
Joshua Tesillo
Troy Day base on what scripture that false. You tell me what is wrong then!!
Joshua Tesillo
“Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began,”
Romans 16:25 KJV
Varnel Watson
you still talking about speaking in tongues ?
Doyle Rogers
THE SCRIPTURES SAYS……… MATT 16;18…… I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. Some denominations in their ARROGANCE attempt to SET UP THOSE GATES. .
Doyle Rogers
Final Words
2Pe 3:14 Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless. …………………(NOTE)
2Pe 3:15 And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; ………………………………………………..
2Pe 3:16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction. ……………………………………………….
2Pe 3:17 Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness.
2Pe 3:18 But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever. Amen.
Doyle Rogers
While pastoring in Maine …One of my neighbors in Bangor. Told me that ” if I didn’t know that I would spend the rest of my life in Thomason Prison I would kill that U.P.C. Preacher he has interrupted my marriage and life so much that I can’t even watch T.V. in my own living room..” Some preachers act like the top rooster in the hen house and stick their noses in the personal businesses of homes till they destroy any and all testimony of God’s love and grace..
Varnel Watson
this has to do with speaking in tongues HOW… ?
Doyle Rogers
It has to do with going beyond the word and love of God into religious phantasy. Heb_4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart………….The sword used with out the anointing of the Holy Spirit can become a destructive weapon force .
Doyle Rogers
When Jesus call the Apostles to be fishers of men …They were to use a net…NOT FISH HOOKS. ……….. THE BUTCHER DRIVES THE SHEEP …….. BUT THE SHEPHERD LEADS THEM..
Varnel Watson
DO YOU NEED SPEAKING IN TONGUES FOR SALVATION?
Doyle Rogers
I HAVE ALREADY ANSWERED YOUR QUESTION ..HERE .READ IT OVER AGAIN WITH UNDERTANDING .
2Pe 3:14 Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless. ……READ HERE ……………(NOTE)
2Pe 3:15 AND ACCOUNT THAT THE LONGSUFFERING OF JESUS OUR LORD IS SALVATION ………….. even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; ………………………………………………..
2Pe 3:16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction. ……………………………………………….
2Pe 3:17 Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness.
2Pe 3:18 But grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ. To him be glory both now and for ever. Amen.
Varnel Watson
Doyle Rogers none of these say NOTHING about speaking in tongues I cite back to you Jn 3:16 HOW relevant ?
Joshua Tesillo
Troy Day John 3:16 is not the Gospel! Hate to bust your bubble! It’s 1 Corinthians 15:1-4. That’s where the confusion is in the scriptures
Joshua Tesillo
Doyle Rogers those scriptures in Peter of Talking about Paul is good scriptures. Paul is our guy that has our doctrine! Plain black and white what Peter is day about Paul letters! Paul has everything we need to understand the Body of Christ which is the church! AKA Gentiles!
Doyle Rogers
The Resurrection of Christ
1Co 15:1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
1Co 15:2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
1Co 15:3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
1Co 15:4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:
Doyle Rogers
יְשׁוּעָה SALVATION DEFINED IN HEBREW
yeshû‛âh
yesh-oo’-aw
Feminine passive participle of H3467; something saved, that is, (abstractly) deliverance; hence aid, victory, prosperity: – deliverance, health, help (-ing), salvation, save, saving (health), welfare……
Doyle Rogers
PETER PREACHED Act_2:38 Then Peter said unto them, ((FIRST) Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and (SECONDLY) ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. LATER ON ……Paul in Ephesus
Act 19:1 And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples,
Act 19:2 He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.
Act 19:3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John’s baptism.
Act 19:4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
Act 19:5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
Act 19:6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.
Varnel Watson
Doyle Rogers you still talking about speaking in tongues ?
Mike Siebel
No
Varnel Watson
yes
William DeArteaga
Of course not
Varnel Watson
yea
Doyle Rogers
THE CHURCH ( UNDER GRACE) WAS BIRTH THROUGH THE TRAVAIL OF CHRIST JESUS ON CALVARY’S CROSS . , which brought us SALVATION ………………..Eph 2:11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;
Eph 2:12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
Eph 2:13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
Eph 2:14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;
Eph 2:15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace; ………..(NOTE)
Eph 2:16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby: ……………………………………………………………………………………………………………….The church was set in order in THE FIRST CHAPTER OF THE ACTS OF THE APOSTLES……………………………………………….THE CHURCH WAS EMPOWERED ( IN ACT CHAPTER 2 by the fulfilling of JESUS COMMAND AND PROPHECY ……………..(THAT SAID )
Act 1:8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth. ……WHEN THIS PROPHECY IS COMPLETED THE END WILL COME……………… Mat_24:14 And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come..
Varnel Watson
you still talking about speaking in tongues ?
Varnel Watson
YES
Shannel Taylor
No. The man on the cross with Jesus didn’t speak in tongues, according to scripture, but he’s in paradise with the Lord.
Mitchell Effie Catron
Shannel Taylor the thief died under the law..
Roger L. Frederick
At age (8) I received the gift with tongues (A language I never learned) Guess what? At age (77) it still works! Can I hear an Amen?
Varnel Watson
what is the gift with tongues? which one?
James Michael Sanders
No you do not. Being Baptized in the Holy Spirit is very important and I would even say a command from our Lord Jesus Himself.
Yet it’s NOT a requirement of salvation. Yet it’s VERY important once you are saved.
Of course one can be saved and baptized in the Holy Spirit all around the same moment.
Tim Anderson
John 3:5 Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
6“That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit ” NASB
Based on this – we must be born of the Spirit to be born again, which is same as having salvation.
Varnel Watson
are you still talking about speaking in tongues?
Tim Anderson
Troy Day no just about salvation. A person cant be saved without the cooperation of the Holy Spirit. Evidence of his presence will be manifested in various ways. One of those is speaking in an unknown tongue, another is speaking the Word of God boldly Acts 4:31.
Varnel Watson
Tim Anderson well what about question from OP?
Tim Anderson
Troy Day not aware of OP. Please advise.
Jared Cheshire
Tim Anderson OP = original post. It is the main post you replied to. All replies that have their own replies are together, with their replies, called a thread. (This break off conversation for example) Troy was referring back to the post you replied to.
Jared Cheshire
Also, when you continue on to John 3:8, you ser that Jesus said that there would be a sound that accompanied the baptisim of the Spirit, just as there is a sound that accompanies wind. The wind and the Spirit are causitive, the sound is their effect.
Varnel Watson
Janice Hutton may have made her own doctrine
Tim Anderson
Troy OP – what was I thimkin. Tired when you asked that about OP – knew what that meant but guess I had a lapse in memory. So my answer to the OP is that salvation ia a work of the Holy Spirit. Tongues are only an aspect of his presence and not necessary for salvation. Many wonderful Jesus followers over the century’s have not spoke in tongues, from many scriptues I could quote like in John 3, so No is my answer.
Tim Anderson
Jared Cheshire thank you.
Nora Neel-Toney
No you do not have to speak in tongues for salvation.
RichardAnna Boyce
No you do not have to speak in tongues for salvation.
Mitchell Effie Catron
Everyone goes to heaven..that is why hell is enlarged
Todd Jordan
Not!!!
Varnel Watson
I think you do
Todd Jordan
Troy Day Not in my KJV!!!!
Todd Jordan
You ask some crazy stuff!!!!
Varnel Watson
I think you do too
Louise Cummings
No. Just believing Jesus Christis The Son Of God. But much more than that. Because many people that has no intentions of being saved that believes Jesus Christ is the Son Of God. You have to be born again. That means repenting oh your sins. And asking Jesus Christ to come into your heart. And when He Does. Your Desires change. From wanting to sin to living for Jesus. You have become a New creature in Jesus Christ. The most wonderful change in your life.
Tim Roberts
Yes
Christopher Lance Dart
No. “That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.”
Romans 10:9-10
Varnel Watson
are you still speaking in tongues ?
Christopher Lance Dart
Troy Day Yes. But it’s a prayer language and a sign, not a matter of salvation.
RichardAnna Boyce
If Romans 8: 9b says anything to us,
it is simply that anyone who does not have the Holy Spirit is not a Christian.
First Corinthians 12: 13 confirms that the Holy Spirit has baptized every believer into the body of Christ — both the person who has just believed and the person who has been a believer for ten years.
Whether or not Cornelius was a believer before his encounter with Peter (Acts 10: 43– 44), there is no such thing today as a Christian who has not yet been baptized by the Holy Spirit.
Every Christian has the Spirit and receives the Spirit the very moment he believes. He is no longer “in the flesh”; he is “in the Spirit” and Spirit is “in him” (Eph 1: 13). 1 Cor 12: 13 uses the word “all,” even though not all speak in tongues (12: 30). This contradicts the teaching that requires speaking in tongues as evidence of baptism by the Spirit.
Speaking in tongues is not listed among the fruit of the Spirit (Gal 5: 22).
Those who seek more evidence of indwelling should look for the fruit of the Spirit, not the gifts of the Spirit.
Varnel Watson
you are again co-fussing initial evidence and gift of tongues Biblically clearly two separate things
Varnel Watson
what is your REAL stance on this Janice Hutton
Janice Hutton
Im being accused of my own doctrine, my own what ever! I get my information and spiritual food from (( The Authorized King James Bible))! Spiritual food as in (( Reading Gods Word)) but first (( Prayer)) not a few seconds of prayer; not jus a 5 minute prayer! But 30 minutes or more of one session prayer” in one sitting! Im saying “Theres The Gift Of Salvation Holy Ghost”! But its a must to speak in tongues to receive this Beautiful Gift! But to receive this gift? U have to have repented of your sins, turn from sins, and sin no more! Be Baptized in Jesus Name, (( Then Some Where Down The Road)) Receive The Infilling Of The Holy Ghost! Btw! The Holy Ghost, will not dwell in an unclean temple! The human body! If your living in sin, thats an unclean body soul! The Gift of tongues, to be in the spirit in a church service? Its (( God)) speaking thru that individual to the group of people present that he has something for them! The wind to which U speak of? Gods presence is like both? Wind and fire! The wind and fire is (( Power)) Gods Power! It doesnt have to be a gail of wind like to blow stuff away! It can jus be a breeze! The fire be (( Symbolic //Power))! Yes theres a lot of good ppl that dont have the Holy Ghost! But indeed are good ppl! Ive been that route! U said Im co-fussing? Its not co-fussing? Its jus U dont understand yet? Ok? Theres also the Gift bestowed upon some one with the Holy Ghost? A (( Calling)) The Gift Of Laying Hand Upon Someone An God heals some one! Theres The Gift Of Prophesying, some one propheys some info to an individual from God to direct that individual to what God has in store for that indivual! Theres a gift of God giving an indiviual foresight here and there! But all of those gifts in due time! U dont want to be (( Over Zealous))!
Varnel Watson
Janice Hutton I believe you may be confused
Jonathan Barnes
Cite scripture where it says that you must speak in tongues to be saved.