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CAN YOU EXPLAIN Why do the Bible tells us TWO flood narratives WITHOUT GAP THEORY?
Varnel Watson
Gary Micheal Epping I;ve concluded it cannot be done
One can attack Gap Theory to void the 2 floods
but cannot explain them without Gap Theory
Rico Hero can you paste from the DAKE forum his 20 proofs of Lucifers flood?
Rico Hero
The Two-Flood view in scripture is based on taking Genesis 1:2 in its most straightforward reading–that the earth was already in existence,that it became desolated and covered in water. This is the first flood.
Now the prophet Jeremiah, he sees the total destruction of the earth and based on the description he uses to describe the destruction,it fits perfectly with the description in Genesis 1:2
Gen. 1:2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep…
cp
Jer.4:23 I beheld the earth, and, lo, it was without form, and void; and the heavens, and they had no light.
With this in mind, the Reverend Dake compared the events of the first flood–as seen by Jeremiah, with the events of Noah’s flood. The contrast between the two floods, he listed in his book. My copy does not let me cut and paste the contrast
Robert
Hello everybody, I guess the admin kicked me out of the group for proving a few things that spelled disaster for the man-made gap theory, lol. So poor – refused to admit some of the facts I presented & instead of conversing the issues, many of you just skirted the issues. Virtually no academia here – so sad:(
Shame on you guys for blocking anyone opposing your pet theories.
Varnel Watson
I think DAKE too has 20 facts proving Lucifers flood https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bl_lZ0OdorU
Varnel Watson
here we go
The two floods
Lucifer’s Flood
The Foundation, The Katabole
Noah’s Flood
1. Earth was made waste
(Gen. 1:2; Jer. 4:23) Not made waste
(Gen. 8:11-12, 22)
2. Earth was made empty
(Gen. 1:2; Jer. 4:23) Not made empty
(Gen. 6:17; 8:16)
3. Earth was made totally dark
(Gen. 1:2; Jer. 4:23) Not made totally dark
(Gen. 8:6-22)
4. No light from heaven
(Gen. 1:2; Jer. 4:23) Light from heaven
(Gen. 8:6-22)
5. No days
(Gen. 1:2-5) Days
(Gen. 8:1-22)
6. All vegetation destroyed
(Gen. 1:6-12; Jer. 4:23-26) Vegetation left, not destroyed
(Gen. 8:11-12, 22)
7. No continual abating of waters off earth
(Gen. 1:6-12) Continual abating of waters off earth
(Gen. 8:1-14))
8. Waters taken off in one day
(Gen. 1:10) Waters taken off in months
(Gen. 8:1-14)
9. Supernatural work of taking waters off
(Gen. 1:6-12) Natural work of taking waters off the earth
(Gen. 8:1-14))
10. God rebuked waters
(Gen. 1:6-12) No rebuke of waters
(Gen. 8:1-14))
11. Waters hastened away
(Ps. 104:7) Waters receded gradually
(Gen. 8:1-14))
12. God set bounds for waters
(Ps. 104:9) Bounds already set
(Gen. 1:6-12)
13. All fish destroyed because
sun withheld from earth
(Gen. 1:2;, 20-23; Jer. 4:23-26) No fish destroyed, only
land animals sun not withheld
(Gen. 6:18-8:22)
14. No fouls left
(Gen. 1:20; Jer. 4:23-26) Fowls saved
(Gen. 6:20; 8:17)
15. No animals left
(Gen. 1:24-25; 2:19) Animals saved
(Gen. 6:20; 8:17)
16. No man left
(Gen. 1:26-28; Jer. 4:23-26) 4 men, 4 women & 2 of each flesh
(Gen. 6:18)
17. No social system left
(2 Pet. 3:6; Jer. 4:23-26) A social system left
(Gen. 6:18; 8:22; 2 Pet. 2:5)
18. No ark made to save life
(Jer. 4:23-26; 2 Pet. 3:6-7) An ark made to save life
(Gen. 6:14-22; 1 Pet. 3:20)
19.
Cause: fall of Satan
(Isa. 14:12-14; Jer. 4:23-26;
Ez. 28:11-17; Lk. 10:18)
Cause: man’s wickedness (Gen. 6:5-13)
and sin of fallen angels (Gen. 6:1-4)
20. Result: became necessary to make new fish, fowl, land animals, vegetation, and man (Gen. 1:3-2:25) Result: no new creations made for all things were saved (Gen. 6:18-8:22)
The flood of Noah lasted over a year, yet vegetation was not destroyed. But in Lucifer’s flood the fruitful place became a wilderness (Jer. 4:23-26). New vegetation had to be planted in the 6 days, for the earth was totaly desolate (Gen. 1:11-12, 2:5, 8-17). This proves that Lucifer’s flood was on earth longer than Noah’s and, without doubt, as judgment for a more serious rebellion–a complete rebellion of the pre-Adamite world.
(From the Dake Bible) http://bibleresearcher.org/comments/floods.html
Philip Williams
Two Flood accounts is liberal nonsense. That has been debunked.
Varnel Watson
liberal? – been held by the most conservative preachers
debunked by who? Gary Micheal Epping
Philip Williams
I think you are referring to ruin & restoration taught in the Schofield Reference Bible at the basis of Dake’s own Bible. That was based on the several floods taught by early nineteenth century geologists, a school often referred to as the Catastrophists. It’s just trying to read scientific theories into Genesis.
Varnel Watson
Nope I am referring to 2 separate floods in history
Lucifer’s Flood VS Noah’s Flood
How do you explain that in the first Earth was made waste
(Gen. 1:2; Jer. 4:23)
and in Noahs earth was Not made waste
(Gen. 8:11-12, 22)?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dX7Dja0cf9c
Philip Williams
Troy Day thank you for that YouTube of Dake, but know that this was a standard teaching of his day. Richard Land, President of SES told me he still believes Genesis this way, as this former Southern Baptist spokesman was taught in his youth. As I mentioned it was based on early 19th century geological science.
Varnel Watson
OK – How do you explain that in the first Earth was made waste
(Gen. 1:2; Jer. 4:23)
and in Noahs earth was Not made waste
(Gen. 8:11-12, 22)?
Philip Williams
Troy Day Jer 4:23 is reference to future condition of the land of Israel (verse 27).
But Noah’s Flood certainly made the earth waste.
Varnel Watson
future condition in past historical tense? what about gen 1:2
Jeremiah 4:23-26 King James Version (KJV)
23 I beheld the earth, and, lo, it was without form, and void; and the heavens, and they had no light.
Philip Williams
Troy Day well, Jeremiah is specifically referring to seeing the specific situation in the land of Israel when the Lord drives his people out of the land.
Gen 1:2 refers to the situation of the initial Creation before God brought the order and creatures mentioned in Chapter 1.
In the Middle Ages, Aristotle’s philosophy of an uncreated world dominated the thought of Islamic and Jewish philosophers. Certain rabbis proposed that Gen 1:2 suggested that instead of referring to the initial condition of Creation, these verses could be interpreted as the earth ‘becoming’ void.
This was picked up by theologians and scientists of the nineteenth century who were becoming aware of former world’s such as those of the dinosaurs. Hence they developed that theory/theology that Dake is teaching.
I think what makes this interesting to many is that the Bible doesn’t give us an explicit account of the angels and their rebellion.
But the Lord did from the beginning give man dominion over the earth. But one of the angels managed to get dominion over man in the Garden of Eden. Since Satan or Lucifer was also mentioned as a cherubim guarding the Garden of Eden, it would seem that the fall of Satan was precisely the occasion of his engineering the fall of man. With this conquest, he was able to entice other angels to join him.
That those of the new birth will one day replace Satan and his angels in ruling the world explains the great spiritual battle in the church.
Varnel Watson
what do you mean by
initial Creation before God brought the order ?
isnt the Creation THE bringing to order?
Philip Williams
Troy Day Yes, you are right. I am referring to the teachings of the rabbis used by the 19th century theologians that Schofield and Dake incorporated in their Dispensationalist system.
Varnel Watson
which teachings of Which rabbis? Tom Steele
Philip Williams
Read the translation notes from the highly regarded NET.
“Now the earth was without shape and empty, and darkness was over the surface of the watery deep, but the Spirit of God was moving over the surface of the water.”
Genesis 1:2 NET
https://www.bible.com/107/gen.1.2.net
Varnel Watson
I know the guy who published NET Bible ans some of the translators and I can assure you they are NO Jewish rabbis 🙂
Philip Williams
Troy Day didn’t say they(!) were. Just sharing their notes on Gen 1?
Who do you know who published the NET?
Varnel Watson
I also know WHY they translated Gen 1 the way they did I am still wondering Tom Steele knows the rabbis