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Charles Page | PentecostalTheology.com
Is this a trick question: can you be holy without speaking in tongues?
Peter A Vandever [08/16/2015 10:57 AM]
I am going to open a can of worms here…. we are made holy at salvation. We can not make ourselves holy. God does not mind if we wear jeans and go to the movies lol
Charles Page [08/16/2015 2:00 PM]
can we start a list of things that God does not mind that we do? I like a glass of wine every once in a while and God does not mind! I don’t smoke but I don’t think God would mind if I savored occasionally a good pipe with some flavored tobacco! I watch some movies with a good story plot but are mature in rating with nudity, I don’t believe God minds.
Charles Page [08/16/2015 2:02 PM]
I would attend a movie if there is a good movie. So I rarely go! We cannot make ourselves holy…or can we??? Maybe it works both ways.
Timothy Carter [08/16/2015 5:02 PM]
Enoch was Holy so God took him. There is no evidence of him Speaking in Tongues. So I say yes. But we must be obedient to the Word and MAKE OURSELVES Holy some people are lazy and tell lies on God and say that he did everything at the Cross. But We are commanded in the Word to crucify the flesh and to sanctify ourselves daily. We are told to be Holy as God is Holy. Holiness is a choice we make. Not that we be lazy and say Christ died for my stupidity too. When the Bible says that God made us Holy that is talking about right side of sin. Not understand the power of sin. However we are required to grow up in Holiness and this is our responsibility. God blesses us with Grace which is the power to live with out sin. The more temptations a person has the more they need to pray for Grace before they sin.
Charles Page [08/16/2015 5:13 PM]
there was no reason for speaking in tongues till Babel. Prior there was no uncertain sound of the trumpet to rally the godly for warfare. Enoch and Noah spoke in tongues to rally the children of God and they did it in love
Timothy Carter [08/16/2015 5:33 PM]
Where do you see this information at? I don’t remember reading that Enoch or Noah spoke in tongues.
Charles Page [08/16/2015 5:34 PM]
assumption on my part. tongues is for unbelieving and there were many unbeliever then. They were children of God and it should have been a sure word of prophecy for them but they failed to believe and therefore perished.
Timothy Carter [08/16/2015 5:45 PM]
Okay thanks for clarifying that. That could cause someone to get confused quickly thinking that the Bible says something that is not there. Your are correct the people died in sin.
Carl Murphy [08/16/2015 6:13 PM]
Yes
Anna Mae Slate [08/17/2015 9:18 AM]
Our LORD gives different GIFTS to his people as he see’s fit.Not all have the same GIFT.
Timothy Carter [08/17/2015 11:15 AM]
Anna Mae Slate please help us understand what you mean. How does this connect with Holy living and Speaking In Tongues?
Anna Mae Slate [08/17/2015 7:04 PM]
Not all will be given the gift of tongues. Some will be given gifts of teaching, caring for GOD’s little ones, gift of healing, being a minster of the word. Our LORD has much work for us to do.
Charles Page [08/17/2015 7:06 PM]
not everyone has the gift of tongues but everyone should speak in tongues. Even if you are southern Baptist! it’s Biblical
Anna Mae Slate [08/17/2015 7:16 PM]
1 Cor. 7:7 says every man is given a gift some after this matter, some another after that. God even gives some the gift to interpret tongues. We all have a place in GOD,S home.
Anna Mae Slate [08/17/2015 7:16 PM]
1 Cor. 7:7 says every man is given a gift some after this matter, some another after that. God even gives some the gift to interpret tongues. We all have a place in GOD,S home.
Charles Page [08/17/2015 7:18 PM]
all speak with tongues – the Holy Spirit distributes gifts according to his will.
Nelson Banuchi
Why not?
Mary Ellen Nissley
I don’t get the connection… why would one link the two together?… is it because the old fashioned Pentecostals called themselves “holiness”? I have noticed those types of churches tend to call Pentecostalism, “holiness.”
Jon Ray
Is this question even asked theology proper?
Mary Ellen Nissley
I am amazed at Acts 15:11.
“But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they. ”
We usually think in terms of “they can be saved even as WE.” As if OUR salvation is the example for others to attain to.
But the apostles looked at the salvation of Gentiles, of those who obeyed NONE of the Torah, who had NONE of the trappings of “correct” religious tradition. And all the proof they had of their salvation was the fact that those earnest seekers burst into tongues as the Gospel was being preached.
They hadn’t even made a verbal confession of Christ as “personal Saviour”, much less getting baptized in water, before their tongues-outburst.
But their tongues were proof enough for the apostles.
Peter said:
Acts 15:8 And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us;
Acts 15:9 And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.
This is momentous.
Peter, the apostle to the circumcision, was convinced these uncircumcised Gentiles were already purified, and that by FAITH!
And THIS is the greatest example of salvation, to Peter. Not that one who kept the Law was made holy by the blood of Christ.
But that those who had nothing to boast of by works, were purified.
And We shall be saved, even as THEY.
Kaleb Ykowski
You bring stimulating topics out. I really enjoy and appreciate them. Thank you.
Varnel Watson
Actually this one is brought to you by Charles Page
Kaleb Ykowski
Oh ok. Thanks to both. It helps me to focus on the things of God and away from everything else. Much appreciation.
Louise Cummings
You have to be Holy to receive the Holy Ghost. When you are truly born again. Cleans up inside. You are Holy.
Gary Sawyer
According to the Apostles Paul of Tarsus not all will speak in tongues. . . . . So the answer is yes. (((( can you speak in Tongues without the Holy Spirit? Unfortunately the Answer to that one is also yes ( people who practice voodoo, witchcraft and even Hindu also can speak in tongues ( Hindus call it Kundalini ….. Demonic spirits can mimic the Holy Spirit. Paul of Tarsus warned about that too. That it why he said to keep it silent unless you have an interpreter. . . . He later goes on to say that not every spirit that produces signs and wonders is of God. And we are to test those Spirits.
Charles Page
cessationist use that to say that all tongues are of the devil! Biblical tongues are unknown tongues that exalt Christ and thankfulness. However we don’t know what is being said so we can’t make the distinction of God and devils!
Troy and David believe that my “tongues” are not of God so it must be according to them of the devil. Who knows what tongue is of God or the devil?
Varnel Watson
The tongues of a drunk man are not of God
Gary Sawyer
The anser is YES to all of that. I am not a cessationist. I just believe that we have an obligation to obey God’s word. The first rule of ministry is that the Holy Spirit will not lead you into something that is in conflict with scripture. I personally witnessed a man preaching and speaking in tongues as he preached that the rapture has already occurred and that we are living in the Great Tribulation and we need to prepare ourselves to be among those 144,000 who will make it to the end …….YES, he spoke in tongues over and over all during a message centered on a false teaching (because we are not in the Great Tribulation, and the Rapture hasn’t already occurred) all based on his total misunderstanding of scripture. ….now. by you own acknowledgement that tongues is a gift of the holy spirit, and if these spiritual gifts will not contradict scripture, how then is it possible for men to speak in tongues when they preach something that is theologically wrong? The obvious correct answer is “Counterfeit Tongues”.
Charles Page
Gary Sawyer exactly the wording of John MacArthur who so wrong on scripture that he has to resist the Holy Spirit. If he spoke in tongues I would know that it was of the devil at work in him. I am in the least that correct on scripture.
Gary Sawyer
Charles Page, please understand that I am not talking about you specifically…… I am saying that not everyone that speaks in tongues is genuine in doing so. ((( I speak in tongues! ! ! ! ! !
Gary Sawyer
Let me give you another example of something that I witnessed back in 2004. My wife and I were invited to come to a week long revival going on at another Pentecostal church in the next town over. (back then there was no FaceBook and I had never met that pastor or even talked to him before). We were invited because my wife used to sing. They asked her to come and sing, and so we went. …… As we were walking in, I was carrying my Bible with me. As we were walking through the door a lady said “Oh! I see you brought your Bible” ..immediately this struck me as Odd, because why wouldn’t I bring my Bible with me. Then as we entered the door I met the pastor. He shook my hand and then he said “You got your Bible” …and I said “Yes, of course I do.” …..then we became seated. And it felt weird to me that everyone kept noticing that I brought my Bible. So I started looking around and noticed that nobody else had a Bible. Then when the service started, they turned out the lights and turned on some multicolored disco lights and when the music started they all started standing up and were walking around the room beating tambourines and waving flags. Several of them were speaking in tongues as the music played. ((( I really didn’t have a problem with any of that ..until ..almost 2 hours later they were still playing music and beating tambourines and waving flags with colored disco lights flashing when the pastor finally came up to his microphone and said that they were closing the service and then the regular lights came back on. . . . they had prayer and that was the end of it. . . again I didn’t see anything wrong and I just assumed that it must’ve just been an all music worship service with no preaching, and I didn’t think anything else about it. ….he invited us back for the next night. ((( so we went back…. and the exact same thing happened… so as we were leaving I asked the pastor about preaching. and he literally jumped back from me and told me “Church is for worship, if you want to mess up worship, then stick someone behind a microphone and let ’em start telling other people how to live their lives” ..but then he pointed to the Bible I was carrying in my hand and said “If you want to really get to know Jesus and walk one on one with God you’ll put down that Bible” and then he proceeded to tell me that there was no preaching in his church, only worship, and that he believes that the Bible is nothing but a source for confusion for people and we as Christians to get rid of it”. . . . . Now both nights as he sang and played music, he spoke in tongues almost continuously ….now just because this man spoke in tongues and said that the Bible is no good…..does speaking in tongues make him right? ……………Absolutely not. ! ! ! ! ! ! …….for the record, that same ministry folded about a year later, and that pastor filed for divorce and moved to Indiana with another lady from his Church that he wasn’t married to….. So….My Point that just because someone speaks in Tongues does not always mean the Holy Spirit is present is a valid point
Charles Page
Everyone who speaks in tongues is potentially lost
Gary Sawyer
Not everyone,… Speaking in Tongues can be evidence of the Holy Spirit. …the problem is we the Church should be able to discern the difference. Jesus said by the fruit you shall know them. This is what Paul is talking about in the book of 1 Corinthians chapter 12. Paul is telling people to be cautious (that is why he says to get interpreters) because tongues can be faked by people or even impersonated by demon spirits.
Charles Page
The interpretation is far easier to falsify
Charles Page
You don’t test the message but the interpretation
Few interpretations meet scripture ‘ s test
Gary Sawyer
I agree with you on that….. I once heard a story from a Methodist Pastor who was a graduate from Seminary college with multiple degrees and earlier in his life worked as a missionary and he could speak multiple languages. He can also read and spoke fluent Greek. …..One day he noticed that a Pentecostal Preacher had placed a tent in a parking lot of an old empty department store building and was having a week long “Camp Meeting” ….since he didn’t have anything else planned, he thought he would go to it on one of the nights…and he did. During the service, people would stand up and start speaking in tongues and a lady would run up to them and lay hands on them, and then interpret the tongues…. Later in the service the preacher (whom he didn’t know) pointed him out of the crowd and asked him to stand up and speak in tongues. Because he understood that the word tongues in the original Greek meant “Language” …he started reciting the Lord’s prayer in Greek. that lady ran over to him and laid her hand on the center of his chest and began telling everyone “He said that God is going to bless everyone”. He stopped praying in Greek and turned to the lady and said “That is not what I said, The man asked me to speak in tongues, and knowing that tongues means languages in Greek, I was reciting the Lord’s prayer in Greek” …The lady had a look of horror on her face as she back away from him. …he sat down and watched the rest of the service and never went back.
Charles Page
Course the interpretation is not a translation of the tongue but an interpretation
David Lewayne Porter
Charles Page
I am waiting for you to tell the truth on what I said to you concerning your tongues.
Feel free to copy and paste my reply.
and I never said they were of the devil.
But since you like bearing false witness, that is not of God is it.
Charles Page
David Lewayne Porter you and Troy Day don’t believe my tongues are of God. never is bearing false witness of God.
I would appreciate your correction of that, if you believe my tongues are of God then that would be good of you.
David Lewayne Porter
Charles Page
Here is what I said,
[[Copy and paste]]
“Which judgement on which topic Charles?
Alcohol is between you and your Saviour….. as long as you are not getting drunk.
Your tongues anytime you want to,, God will judge – or has He since He returned (according to your beliefs) in 70 AD.
That brings to ask
So why do you need tongues in the Millennium, isn’t that which is perfect already come?
Haven’t tongues and prophecies ceased then, I mean during your millennial reign?
So which judgements?
By the way, they are not judgements, they are simple observations.
You know, like what you do to the ladies married to the bishops in the cog.
Just
Simple
Observations.
[[End copy and paste]].
Since tongues are the least of the gifts,
You are welcome to yours.
Does not matter to me if they are real or not.
I don’t watch you, will not watch you.
It does not effect me.
Varnel Watson
Dont mix the spirits brother
Timothy Staggs
I am positionally Holy because of the Blood of Christ, practically, I like what Wesley said, “To affirm that you are holy/perfect would say that you are not.”
Jim Price
My observation over many years is that yes one can be holy without speaking in tongues also without prophesying or having the gift of healing. We have evidence in both the O T and the N T of holy people where there was no tongues.
Angel Ruiz
Yes we can…. God is the one who sanctifies us…. he does it through his word and by his Holy Spirit
Varnel Watson
I have to agree with Steve Butcher who wrote “Doesn’t Pentecostalism by definition refer to the outpouring of the Holy Ghost on the day of Pentecost? If you take away speaking in tongues as the Spirit gives utterance you are no longer Pentecostal.”
Tim Renneberg
I happen to agree with that, but the connection between the BHS and holiness is, at best a correlation not a cause and effect
Daniel Blaylock
For years the Church of God argued that you could not speak in tongues unless you WERE holy–because Spirit baptism followed sanctification. Our Declaration of Faith still states “We believe in the baptism of the Holy Ghost SUBSEQUENT TO a clean heart.”