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Biblical proof of the rapture at the parousia, capitals added for emphasis
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the COMING of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be CAUGHT UP together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words
Verse 15 tells us this is about the parousia. He writes of those who are alive and remain unto the parousia of the Lord.
Here is verse 15 in Greek:
Τοῦτο γὰρ ὑμῖν λέγομεν ἐν λόγῳ Κυρίου, ὅτι ἡμεῖς οἱ ζῶντες οἱ περιλειπόμενοι εἰς τὴν παρουσίαν τοῦ Κυρίου οὐ μὴ φθάσωμεν τοὺς κοιμηθέντας·
See the word παρουσίαν. parousian
Guest;
https://youtu.be/bf0K68CZpfU
Guest;
The pre trib rapture is a Jesuit invention. Just google it.
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Gerry Holloway I googled it and this is what came up Surely its true if its on the internets right? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fepeBmiK6NU
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You know arguing theologies about the Rapture doesn’t solve anything. Jesus will come back when the Father says so, regardless of what we might try to predict. Are the post trib people ready to go go early? Are the pretrib proponents ready to go later? Everybody better be ready when He decides to come!
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Are the pretrib proponents ready to go later is an oxymoronic question They will have time to prepare IF needed Not so with any other rapture theoretix There will be NO time for the left behind
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Link you know around here people go nuts with few snow flakes on the ground. Imagine store milk, bread, water, gas panic with a star falling from heaven and killing 1/3 of all earth 🙂 Stay along
Guest;
There is no reason to thing that Petra is the only sheepfold sanctuary during the Great Tribulation. There are as many Jews in the United States as in Israel. New York City has the most jews of any city in the world, and Los Angeles is third right behind Jerusalem. They will all need their Petras too. And we are are not even yet talking about all of the gentile christians that will need sanctuaries. Such places will be supernaturally protected against those with the mark entering.
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many sheep will be folded in NY during the Tribulation?
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Gary Micheal Epping Re: ” Everybody better be ready when He decides to come! ”
Hello Gary,
Do you recall the story when Jesus “went across the lake to the region of the Gerasenes. When Jesus got out of the boat, a man with an impure spirit came from the tombs to meet him.” Jesus cast out the legion of impure spirits that went into a large herd of pigs. “The herd, about two thousand in number, rushed down the steep bank into the lake and were drowned.” Now when the people of this region heard about it, they pleaded with Jesus to leave their region. These Jews here preferred to go contrary to scripture and their Law by raising unclean animals and rejecting the living Word–Jesus. What excuse these people had in raising unclean animals? Maybe they thought as stated by John the Baptist in Mt 3: “9 And do not think you can say to yourselves, ‘We have Abraham as our father.’Or perhaps someone convinced them that these animals were not really unclean–by saying, it was the Jesuits (or a Jesuit like order of their time they rejected made pigs unclean). But I digress.
Anyways, Jesus did as they wanted and left. So it will be at the rapture, Gary. You see, In Luke 21, when asked of the Lords time of returning ( to fulfill prophecy and rule –Isaiah 9:6-7 ), Jesus, he first predicted the events of the tribulation–the things that must happen first :
Lk.21:
” 9 When you hear of wars and uprisings, do not be frightened. These things must happen first, but the end will not come right away.”
10 Then he said to them: “Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom.
Note: The above is what the white horse rider of Rev 6 will fulfill:
Rev 6:
2 I looked, and there before me was a white horse! Its rider held a bow, and he was given a crown, and he rode out as a conqueror bent on conquest.
Jesus, after telling us “the things must happen first”( Lk.21-9), He instructed us to :
36 Watch therefore, and pray always that you may [i]be counted worthy to escape all these things that will come to pass, and to stand before the Son of Man.”
If John the Baptist was here I imagine him telling doubters and those who do not do as instructed here, saying ” and do not think you can say to yourself , we are Christians.
Seems clear to me that one must watch and pray always to be counted worthy to escape. If we were to go through the tribulation, I am sure Jesus would have told us we would be protected as oppose to escaping and standing before Him
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Rico Hero apart from Gary, most pre-tribbers for now are answering @ a Sunday School level theology. Perhaps we can have a real discussion when the upt the level just a notch here
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Hey! I really want to go early and am ready to do so. Why not get out of here and miss all of the turmoil. Anyone with any sense would likely choose that option. But, the problem is I have read the bible and don’t see that this will happen. SO, I am prepared to make my way through the Tribulation until Jesus raptures me; that is if I am still alive. Otherwise, if I am dead, either option will be fine.
Guest;
Many pentecostal theologians believe in a pretrib Rapture, but not all of them. One of the most recognized is Dr, Michael Brown who has this to say about the Rapture. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rlgH0IJfUnY
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I agree, if there is a “rapture,” it will occur at the Parousia. The thing I ask myself is, considering the persecution and atrocities millions of Christians have faced for the last more that 2000 years and still face today, why would any generation of Christians think they should be exempt from persecution?
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The persecution of the church and the Tribulation cant even begin to compare. The BIBLE makes a great distinct between both. 7 Church of Rev. also suffer and are persecuted YET taken before the Tribulation that cannot compare to anything these 7 have already endured
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Troy, I think we should join forces with Link and go out and evangelize the world during the Great Tribulation. Sounds exciting to me, with the possibility of reaching lost souls just before time runs out.
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Yes you and Link should join forces to make some more solid arguments for your theory because grandma Louise killed them all with her one line post in defense of the pre-Trib rapture 🙂
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Dr. Brown has become very political in the last few years. He was not like that in Brownsville.
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Gary Micheal just few min ago Peter Vandever has pointed out that I was wrong about Brown being NAR Of course his observation may be from 10-15yrs ago, which I am reading Brown’s book on Trump and I can hardly believe it
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Brown is friendly to people in the “NAR” but I would not say he is one himself.
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I believe he was in FULLER alongside Wagner and published papers together on the upcoming NAR movement around the year 2000 Terry Wiles may know way more details than myself
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Considering the OP, why don’t we discuss the fact that the rapture will happen at the parousia. Troy Day Do you agree with I Thessalonians 4:15 and surrounding verses that the rapture will occur at the parousia?
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I Thessalonians says that there will be a resurrection of the saints and then, those who remain, will be “raptured” to receive the Lord in the air. The problem with pretrib rapture is that here are only two general resurrections: resurrection of the saints and the resurrection of condemnation for unbelievers, the problem is that revelation 20:4-5 establishes that the first resurrection takes place AFTER the tribulation not before. So pretrib rapture is Fake News.
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Gerardo,There is no timeline given in Rev.20:4-5, Fake News, isn’t that a line spewed by President Trump when he doesnt agree with facts?
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Troy Day So, now are we ready to get back on topic with the Rapture? Dr. Brown in the video I posted, says that the Rapture will not happen pretrib or midtrib, but ‘after the tribulation.’ So, Troy, once you have settled into this realization (I admit it may not be until the Tribulation has started and you are still here), we need to find out how your sheepfold down there in Tennessee can communicate with mine up here in Montana. We will have a lot of work to do, and need to join forces. Also, need ideas on how to link with Link Hudson in Hawaii, as we will need him involved to. Since we will still have our immortal bodies, we can’t just jump in the air and fly ourselves down. We may need a blackmarket airplane purchased from antichrist followers who like money better than the antichrist himself. Any better ideas?
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I won’t need one. Speed of light
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Hey Roger Lewis I’d like to poll you on the following eschatological plan when you get the chance to talk about it
12. We believe Jesus Christ is coming back again to receive His church.
We call this the Rapture (1 Thessalonians 4:16-18; Acts 1:9-11).
We believe the rapture will be followed by the
13. Great Tribulation and then Jesus will return
to rule for a thousand years of peace on earth. (Revelation 20:4-6)
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Amen
Guest;
Amen my Brother
Varnel Watson
YES this is a great topic when parsed properly indeed