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Corey Forsyth | PentecostalTheology.com
Some earlier posts started me thinking about something I have never given too much thought to before… Is there biblical precedent for the manifestations that many call “power of the the Holy Ghost” i.e. Being slain in the Spirit, convulsing, laughing hysterically (maniacally), etc.
I am not being a trouble maker this time. ? Really curious to hear some feedback.
Jimmy Humphrey [02/27/2016 7:19 AM]
I think these things can generally be explained under the category of “mass hypnosis” than anything Biblical or spiritual.
Brian Roden [02/27/2016 9:25 AM]
Jonathan Edwards’ “Religious Affections” sheds some light on these phenomena.
Stan Wayne [02/27/2016 10:17 AM]
Definitely not
Tom Steele [02/27/2016 10:25 AM]
1 Kings 8:11 So that the priests could not stand to minister because of the cloud: for the glory of the LORD had filled the house of the LORD.
2 Chronicles 5:14 So that the priests could not stand to minister by reason of the cloud: for the glory of the LORD had filled the house of God.
2 Chronicles 7:2 And the priests could not enter into the house of the LORD, because the glory of the LORD had filled the LORD’S house.
There are those who use these verses, at the very least, to warrant being “slain in the spirit”. Not saying whether or not that is correct, but it would be a focal point for this discussion. After all, it does say that the reason the priests could not stand was because of the glory of God that filled the house.
Drew Banacos [02/27/2016 2:21 PM]
You may not be able to point to the Bible and say, “wow, that’s an example of being slain in the Spirit.” That’s terminology we use to make sense of a phenomenon that is hard to explain. There are instances of the prophets in the OT falling down and weeping. This occurs in Revelation as well. It’s hard to prove that this is the exact same phenomenon. But I think this question, although not a bad one, reveals part of the problem with Protestant hermeneutics (or at least Zwingli). Zwingli argued that if its not clearly in the Bible, it’s not Christian. But if you look at Church history, there have always been unusual occurences when people encounter God. The book of Acts is the only canonical text we have of the Church from Pentecost onward that is all narrative. So we shouldn’t say this is the only that God moves. There is no way every experience of God could be recorded. This is one reason why the Church is needed–so that we can discern together what is true rather than from an individualistic point. “Falling out” is not a Christian-only experience. People of other religions experience things too. It’s not even only religious. Health concerns can cause this as was pointed out. But whatever the manifestation, it is not about the manifestation itself but the cause.
Corey Forsyth [02/27/2016 5:31 PM]
So what about other things aside from falling out? Several that step into a prayer line, gets prayed for, then proceeds to convulse. Not dance, but convulse. Also laughing (think Rodney Browne) and similar things. We covered the more extreme examples such as gold dust a while back but the more common practices have me thinking.
Charles Page [02/27/2016 5:59 PM]
I believe the laughing is a suggestive response and not a true phenomenon.
Fainting (syncope) is the partial or complete loss of consciousness with interruption of awareness of oneself and ones surroundings. When the loss of consciousness is temporary and there is spontaneous recovery, it is referred to as syncope or, in nonmedical terms, fainting. Syncope accounts for one in every 30 visits to an emergency room. It is pronounced sin-ko-pea.
Syncope is due to a temporary reduction in blood flow and therefore a shortage of oxygen to the brain. This leads to lightheadedness or a “black out” episode, a loss of consciousness. Temporary impairment of the blood supply to the brain can be caused by heart conditions and by conditions that do not directly involve the heart. My home town church was set in order December 25, 1915 with 18 people present in a home. In that service a lady handled fire with her hands.
Corey Forsyth [02/27/2016 6:53 PM]
lol good ol Dr. Page! Wait.. Have you served long enough to get your honorary doctorate?!
Charles Page [02/27/2016 6:56 PM]
Several if not many of Christ’s miracles were psychosomatic cures.
Much that happens in Pentecostal Churches to day is psychosomatic.
Stan Wayne [03/01/2016 10:07 AM]
Appreciate the thoughtful analysis – I think it is unbiblical, showy, too easy to manipulate.
But Father Francis Macnutt’s thoughts on it were interesting : he called it “resting in the spirit” and made it plausible. Best treatment but I still think bunk:
Overcome By The Spirit
Author: Francis MacNutt
Chosen Books, P. O. Box 6287, Grand Rapids, MI 49516-6287, 1990
ISBN: 0-8007-9170-3
The author explores the phenomenon he prefers to call “resting in the spirit”. He tackles every conceivable question and concern about this issue. Christians seeking deeper understanding of this phenomenon will find biblically informed wisdom and sensitivity. It includes practical advice to those in the healing ministry.
Charles Page [03/01/2016 12:03 PM]
I’ve tried to answer this question but I have been censored for my thoughts.
Stan Wayne [03/01/2016 12:04 PM]
Huh?
Charles Page [03/01/2016 12:30 PM]
I can easier believe that under the power of the Spirit a person is apt to drop to their knees as it is the knees that buckle however it seem unlikely one would fall backward and only if under some sort of suggestion. For instance the notion that someone is standing there with a ready covering is a good idea what is expected of you when you are prayed for. No one wants to appear to be resisting to being pushed backward. I have been prayed for and refused to be pushed down or backward. On the other hand I have been prayed for and immediately felt all the blood rush and then my knees buckled and I am certain that was not done by pushing.
Louise Cummings
Could I give some thought on this. The priest couldn’t stand because of Gods Glory. Don’t you think that’s why people can’t stand now. Because of Gods Glory. Now I don’t say everything is God. But I’m not the Judge. I want to say a few thing about a camp meeting I went when I first joined the Church Of God. I was there one night. The Power Of God was so strong. It sounded to me as if a heavy rain started coming down. The people on that started really worshiping God. Then the sound of rain moved to the middle. Then on to the left side. The people in the whole tabernacle was worshiping God. I had never seen nothing like it before or since , in that same faction. But l would like to Give God Glory in a Testimony. About Bro T L Lowery passing out while preaching. He would fast 40 days at a time. I saw him preach our camp meeting. He was just coming off a fourth day fast. He was almost to weak to stand up. Anyway he was holding a three day revival at Winfield Al. I had been such for a long time. Three or four months. I was still working at Wall Mart. My daughter was working for the doctor I was going to. I had a D N C run. And the Dr. Sent it to a Pathologist to check it out. It came back number four cancer. The Dr. Called the Pathologist to see if he was sure. My daughter was listening on the other. He said I’m sure. Then the Dr. Made me an appointment with a Specialist to see how to treat it or what to do. Number four is the worst it gets. It’s the last stage. Any way we went to Bro. T L. Lowery revival that Tuesday night. The prayer line was long. I remember praying as I got in the prayer line. I said Lord I’m like the man in the Bible. If you will I know you can heal me. My daughter wouldn’t tell me all this until after prayer. He called me out of that long line. He didn’t ask me anything. Or tell me anything. He just prayed for me. I went on to the Specialist on that Friday like my Dr. Had told me to. He did a biopsy and sent it to the same Pathologist that my doctor used. And when the results came back. The Pathologist said there is no Cancer cells in it. And he was trying to explain what he thought he might have seen. Well I know what he saw. He saw a Miracle. That was on file. That was about Twenty Three years ago. The specialist kept on wanting to do the surgery. He said I still had a lot of infection. Which I didn’t believe. He kept calling me at Wall Mart wanting to do the surgery. But I felt like it would be like doubting God , that He healed. I prayed about it and thanked God for what He Had Done. And told God if I had it that it wouldn’t be because I was doubting what He had done. So I gave in for the sugary. After the Specialist came in the next morning. I ask well how was it. He told me it was good. It just showed scares of past infections. See that was two reports from one incidence that showed two miracles. You see he had said I still had infection. The surgery showed I Bobby even have that. God Showed Himself that He Was God Bigger Than Doctors. I thank God for Doctors. I believe there’s times we need them. And wouldn’t if we could only have that faith that doesn’t doubt. God healed my daughter with an impediment of spearheaded. You couldn’t understand anything she said at about four yrs. old. We had prayer for her and they prayed The Lord putting healing in her tongue tat there would be no embarrassment in her tongue when she started to school. Within two weeks she was speaking plain. Now her and her husband pastors our church. She sings and plays piano like a professional. No piano lessons or voice lessons. God gave it all to her. When he healed her speech. I could tell you so much like when my son got hit be a car. I know you don’t have time. But God is Real. His gifts for the Church is Real. You will never Explain God away. He’s Supernatural. We can’t explain it in a natural way. If He can raise the dead. He can do anything. We are sop pose to pray for discernment if anything is not of God. The Devon try’s to be just like God. But he will never make. But the devil always has a duplicate of Him. But the devil will never make. Christians are suppose to know the difference. The Bible says My Sheep will Know My Voice. And a stranger they will not follow.
Mary Ellen Nissley
You know what? I think we Pentecostals have been brainwashed to approach the Bible more like non-Pentecostals do., than how the Pentecostals did in the past… and that’s why the church sees far fewer healings and miracles today.
God is the same yesterday, today and forever. All the things He did in the Bible were ‘new things” when he did them back then.
When the Holy Spirit came upon Saul and turned him into another man, had He ever done that before? When the Spirit of God came on Samson and had him pick up the jawbone of an ass to fight the philistines single-handedly, had He ever worked that way before?
When God came down on Mount Sinai and the sound of a trumpet waxed louder and louder… had He ever done that before?
How did the people of God know it was Him?
God never said He would only repeat the things he has done in the past. He never said He is done doing new things. He never volunteered for that straight-jacket!
The God of the Bible is a God outside of a box. He is a speaking God. He is a God of incredible inventiveness. He is a God of signs and wonders.
And He is always going to be that kind of God.
So, how can we know it’s God?
Not by the discernment of our fleshly reasoning.
The flesh reasons like the Pharisees did… by the letter of the law, completely missing the main point.
The main point is to know your God. Not to put Him into a box of requiring Him to only do the things He has done in the past, but to let Him take you out of your box and set you free from your own fleshly reasonings!
If God wants to do something never even done in the Scriptures… He’s still God, isn’t He?
After all, Jesus opened the door pretty wide, when he said,
“and greater works than these shall ye do!”
And “blessed is the man who sitteth not in the seat of the scornful.”
Louise Cummings
I like your answer.