| Marc Jackson |
What we have here is a failure to get sanctified holy |
| Link Hudson |
Get sanctified then. |
| Marc Jackson |
I’ve been saved, sanctified and filled with the Holy Ghost with the initial evidence of speaking in other tongues – have you? |
| Link Hudson |
Yes, I have been sanctified, and I continue to be sanctified. I may need to ‘sanctify myself’ from time to time. Is sanctification just a past even for you, or is it an ongoing thing? |
| Walter Polasik |
Troy, to believe that special sanctification via a “second work of grace” is needed is to not understand how grace works to begin with. “Progressive sancticication” is, indeed, done through the continuing grace of God and via the Holy Spirit. To miss the sanctifying quality of Christ’s blood (i.e., the application of the atonement to our lives at the New Birth) is to under-appreciate all that Christ’s cleansing & justifying does for us. The reason “ES” fails as biblical doctrine is because it claims that something additional to Christ’s imputation of holiness is needed after the New Birth. Progressive Sanctification, on the other hand, is us learning how to live out and walk in this imputed holiness. It’s what it means to “work out [our] salvation with fear & trembling”. |
| Link Hudson |
Troy Day i have said I believe we are sanctified when we are saved and sanctification is also ongoing. You misrepresented my stance on the issue. |
| Marc Jackson |
Where and how did I misinterpret your (otherwise unclear) stance on the issue? |
| Link Hudson |
Read my laat post. A good summary of my views ie consistently benn presenting on the group. |
| Marc Jackson |
Which one? You have so many crossposts like that and it is hard to follow. How did I misrepresent your view if I have not even read your post ? Link Hudson in the last thing I read by you you said:The COG denomination or precursor to the denomination apparently got the three-step idea after Cashwell went to Azusa Street. This is simply NOT true! The COG denomination or precursor to the denomination claim Holy Spirit baptism as early as 1896 and taught sanctification much much earlier. Cashwell came around them about 15-20 years later |
| Link Hudson |
Troy Day, I posted I might have been mistaken. it may have been tongues as initial evidence doctrine. How common was teaching a three step ‘saved, sanctified, and filled with the Holy Ghost’ in the COG (Cleveland) denomination before Cashwell started preaching it? Sorry if I offended you with that comment. But can we stick to the topic if we are going to discuss it?What is your own view of what happens at sanctification? Can you show me in the Bible where there is a distinct experience of entire sanctification, all at once, some time after the individual becomes a Christian? |
| Link Hudson |
Troy Day, I did not say there was no further sanctification needed after salvation. That clearly contradicts what I have written in this group. I have written that sanctification occurs at salvation and that the believer must continually be sanctified.I also do not see sanctification as being exclusively about abstaining from sin. you could sanctify yourself during a period of prayer and fasting. The Israelites sanctified themselves by washing their clothes and abstaining from sexual relations for the night. |
| Marc Jackson |
Link Hudson I really dont know what you believe You have shown lack of knowledge in classical Pentecostal doctrine You understanding of entire (not merely instant) and progressive sanctification is NOT what these doctrines are all about But never-mind the subject at hand, where and how do you feel I misrepresented your belief and how is this even possible under the circumstances? Is it even a scholarly discussion any longer when you blame your lack of knowledge on the other side’s understanding? |
| Walter Polasik |
I realize I’ve been away from FB a couple of days and so am a late-comer to this particular conversation. But I notice you using the phrase “classic Pentecostal doctrine” and chiding Link for being, in your view, ignorant of it. Let me remind you that directly after Azusa street, “classic Pentecostal doctrine” held that the gift of tongues was given in order to help in evangelism and missions. The brethren were mistaken about that, found it out on the mission field and soon took to correcting “classic Pentecostal doctrine”. Entire Sanctification was another assumption a large number of the Pentecostal bodies corrected. For details read Vinson Synan, William Menzies and Edith Blumhofer. |
| Walter Polasik |
P.S.—Even the Holiness tradition didn’t always hold to ES as is evident in the life, teaching and writings of one of its’ more prominent disciples, J. Oswald Sanders. His fine little book, “Spiritual Leadership” spends a lot of time discussing progressive sanctification and its’ place in the life of the spiritual leader. Spirit Baptism and mighty infillings are “mountain top” experiences. Progressive Sanctification, i.e. “walking in the Spirit” is the “valley”. |
| Link Hudson |
(quasi?-)Wesleyan entire sanctification doctrine is a doctrine believes by a small subset of Pentecostalism, not really ‘Pentecostal doctrine.’ Maybe in 1906 it was the doctrine of the Pentecostal movement. But the A/G is a lot bigger, worldwide, than a lot of the Holiness denominations in the Southeast. Those denominations have lots of preachers who don’t teach a ‘three step’ process. It’s hard to keep them preaching it when they can’t find it in the Bible. Also, in some cases, the overseas branches of the Holiness movement denominations do not teach the three-step process either. Do you know of any Pentecostal denominations outside of the US that actually teach three steps like that? I pointed out… how many times… that I did not say that sanctification is done and not needed anymore after salvation. Since I’ve ‘cross posted’ it– whatever that means– within this forum on multiple threads, it should be all the more easier to see that your statement contradicts what I actually said. |
| Link Hudson |
Troy Day What I object to is teaching people they have to have some kind of emotional experience the Bible doesn’t teach before they can be filled with the Holy Spirit.It is one thing to tell people they need to repent of their sins, be sanctified, consecrate themselves to God, etc.. It is another thing to tell them they can’t have more of the Spirit because they haven’t experienced something that you can’t really explain to them, and that they can’t really find anything in the Bible to clarify it for them…. before they can experience more of God. The later can hinder people’s faith.The other issue is one of getting one’s doctrine from religious tradition rather than from the Bible. I |
| Link Hudson |
Troy Day, Is this ‘Wesleyan Renewal theology’:Sanctification is “an act of separation from that which is evil, and of dedication unto God”. It occurs when the believer identifies with, and has faith in, Christ in his death and resurrection. It is understood to be a process in that it requires continual yielding to the Holy Spirit.https://en.wikipedia.org/…/Assemblies_of_God_Statement…Btw, that sounds like a very reasonable interpretation, regarding sanctification being a ‘process.’ It doesn’t say ‘progressive.’ There is nothing about being unsactified during your Christian walk until you die. |
| Marc Jackson |
Link Hudson Just FYI since you are making another unsubstantial claim here. Our AOG still holds Wesleyan Renewal theology It may do you some good to familiarize yourself with it at some point in this discussion You said you are not historian – so obviously church history is not your strong side. You are also not a theologian (perhaps just a hobby) So It may do you some good to familiarize yourself with Wesleyan Renewal theology at some point in this discussion before making more unsubstantial claimsNevertheless, I could care less abut your theological orientation but I do want to resolve your claim that I misrepresented your views How is this possible where most obviously you dont even have clear view on doctrine of sanctification. You still think progressive sanctification is the one that is not over until we get to heaven. But wait, do you even believe we will be going to a physical heaven? Probably not – so your progressive sanctification view is somewhere out there but hardly within the scope of Pentecostal theology |
| Walter Polasik |
Troy, luckily for you, both history AND theology are my strong sides. So, let’s recognize one thing here, shall we? You & I both know there are all kinds of AOG churches that at any given time hold to all kinds of theology and sometimes outright nonsense. I’ve known A/G’s that held to John Avanzini’s (TBN) “hundredfold” teaching when it was popular. Others raved about Benny Hinn and his powerful “anointing”. During the 50’s tent-meeting era, many were swayed by the cliams of healing evangelists (which got more colorful with every telling until magazines like the AOG’s “Pentecostal Evangel” became wary of publishing them (!) Legalism still reigns in some Oklahoman A/G’s while many others had for a long time been fascinated by Liberal Ecumenism. That some A/G’s hold to this or that doctrine doesn’t make their position biblical. (Just like Joan of Ark isn’t Noah’s wife). |
| Link Hudson |
See post on A/G fundamental truths above. Somehow, your post ended up below mine. |
| Link Hudson |
Troy Day Why don’t you use someone else’s name besides mine if you are going to beat up a straw man. You keep mentioning terminology and arguments I’m not making. Why not make up another person, give him a name, and argue with him if you are going to do that.I was quite clear about how you misrepresented my views. Why not just say your sorry, or blame it on your memory. A lot of people say, “I must be getting old” when they can’t remember. You act like it’s my fault for ‘cross-posting.’ |
| Marc Jackson |
This is from the FUNDAMENTAL TRUTHS of the ASSEMBLIES of GOD:Sanctification is an act of separation from that which is evil, and of dedication unto God:Romans 12:1,21 Thessalonians 5:23Hebrews 13:12The Scriptures teach a life of “holiness without which no man shall see the Lord.â€Hebrews 12:14By the power of the Holy Spirit we are able to obey the command: “Be ye holy, for I am holy.â€1 Peter 1:15,16Sanctification is realized in the believer by recognizing his identification with Christ in His death and resurrection, and by the faith reckoning daily upon the fact of that union, and by offering every faculty continually to the dominion of the Holy Spirit. AOG believes at certain point in life you’ve got to get sanctified in order to see God. Most AOG believe it is before you receive the Holy Spirit. You seem no to hold such view or any view of sanctification at that matterhttp://www.pentecostaltheology.com/what-virtually-all…/ |
| Link Hudson |
Troy Day the idea of believers going to heaven relies on some assumptions. The resurrection is much more emphasized in scripture. |
| Marc Jackson |
AOG believes that The Scriptures teach a life of “holiness without which no man shall see the Lord.†AND By the power of the Holy Spirit we are able to obey the command: “Be ye holy, for I am holy.†This life of holiness has to be in this life This is much different than your clam, if I understand the lack of clarity in your claim that is |
| Link Hudson |
Troy Day, read the A/G view again: ” It occurs when the believer identifies with, and has faith in, Christ in his death and resurrection. It is understood to be a process in that it requires continual yielding to the Holy Spirit.” |
| Link Hudson |
Link Hudson, no I said at salvation, and as an ongoing thing. That is pretty much the A/G view. I don’t believe in the idea that it’s okay to be sinful throughout one’s Christian walk. This seems to be how Melvin Harter understands progressive sanctification if I understand him correctly. And there can be ‘sanctification’ that isn’t about abstaining from sin per se. Not washing your clothes for your night, then having sex with your own wife isn’t sinning. But Israel was to wash their clothes and abstain from sex for the night when they sanctified themselves because that is what God wanted them to do on that particular occasion. You might sanctify yourself by setting yourself apart for a time of prayer as I understand it. That’s not about not sinner per se, though not sinning is a part of sanctification, as I understand it. |
| Marc Jackson |
Yap a one time act AOG believe happens between salvation and Holy Spirit baptism. You are apparently are not from our AOG if you dont uphold this doctrine. What exactly are you again? |
| Link Hudson |
“It occurs when the believer identifies with, and has faith in, Christ in his death and resurrection. It is understood to be a process in that it requires continual yielding to the Holy Spirit.” –A/G fundamental truths |
| Link Hudson |
That’s not what you said. I think you are the one who is confused. It would seem A/G people tend to read the word ‘sanctification’ in a reasonable way, without reading the ‘one-time experience after salvation’ into the word sanctification.The A/G may have had some people with the Holiness movement perspective early on, based on what you wrote, but I think the ‘finished work’ view probably had something to do with some of the preachers forming the A/G. Part of it could have been regional, too, since the A/G provided a group to join with in the western part of the country and other regions. Some of the A/G preachers were with COGIC. Aside from racial and cultural issues which some people have focused on as the reasons for forming a different group, COGIC was episcopal, and if I remember right, taught ‘three steps.’ The A/G did not insist on that. Preachers could join the A/G and get the preacher train discounts without being in an episcopal government that had three-steps as a part of their doctrine. |
| Gabroo Shah |
Someone deleted my post??? |
| Joe Absher |
Jesus Christ breaks the curse of sin and it’s bondage. Jesus not only takes out that old sin nature with it’s immorality, he puts in righteousness holiness and passion for the things of God. He is set apart to God and away from the love of this old world. Rejoicing and gladness and singing come into the soul and life and heart of a man whose sins are washed away. A man that has met Jesus doesn’t dawdle about with sin, doubts and unbelief he drinks of the living Waters and shouts! Thank God Almighty I’m free at last!Ok sorry just thought I’d say a little something for Jesus. |
| Melvin Harter |
Quit saying the word SORRY. You have nothing to apologize over. |
| Joe Absher |
Well I always think I’m interrupting. Maybe it’s an admission that I am contrary high ideas but low living! |
| Gabroo Shah |
Link Hudson haha from Troy Day post. Would you say that’s you? |
| Link Hudson |
Say what’s me? |
| Gabroo Shah |
His description of your belief. Do you really feel salvation cannot be lost? If so, do you have Biblical proof? |
| Link Hudson |
I haven’t argued for that, but you keep attributing OSAS to me. What I did do was post a thread asking if any of the posters here believed in Once Sanctified, Always Sanctified, and if they did not, then why view sanctification as something that happens in one instance?Which post of Troy’s do you think attributed the once saved, always saved belief to me? |
| Gabroo Shah |
the first n top one on which you are commenting now |
| Link Hudson |
Gabroo Shah This one?”Troy Day i have said I believe we are sanctified when we are saved and sanctification is also ongoing. You misrepresented my stance on the issue.” |
| Gabroo Shah |
Link Hudson |
| Link Hudson |
Troy Day Take note of this. Because of the way you write, Gabroo Shah thinks I believe in OSAS. So I am not the only one who thinks you misrepresented my view. Gabroo Shah’s post illustrates this. Putting someone’s name in a sentence has meaning. it is not just a link.Gabroo Shah Notice I have pointed out throughout this thread that Troy Day misrepresented what I believe by the way he worded that post. |
| Marc Jackson |
Link Hudson You seem to be displaying a progressive misunderstanding (which I hope not is a purposeful misrepresentation) of my words. Again and again: I nowhere said this was your opinion or belief. I tagged you to inquire your opinion you on the issues of once and for all Link Hudson [no further sanctification needed]Nowhere I’ve said this is or is not your stance. At this point I have no clue what you believe except what you have shown as much different than the classical Pentecostal doctrine. Therefore I have not misinterpreted your words. These are my words to you tagging you and addressing you with the tag on the issues I’d like to discuss with you. Why you feel this is your belief I have not a clue. Perhaps it is. Who can even begin to tell what you believe with your upbringing? |
| Link Hudson |
Troy Day, when people read a sentence that is poorly constructed and does not make sense, then they interpret it in the most sensible way. Brother Gabroo and myself interpreted your statement in the same way. If you put someone’s name in the middle of a sentence or phrase, in blue, it is still that person’s name, even if it is a tag. That is how just about how everyone else is going to interpret it. |
| Marc Jackson |
Facebook put it in blue not me. Maybe facebook is misrepresenting you now – who knows what’s going on in your case anymore? Do you? |
| Link Hudson |
Troy Day If it were in black the way you typed it, that would have been worse. We usually have a choice whether to tag or not. |
| Marc Jackson |
No one misrepresented you This is now very very clear |
| Marc Jackson |
Link Hudson If I was you I would start with the new Pentecostal Explorations for Holiness Today: Words from Wesley by our own Tony Richie https://www.amazon.com/…/ref=cm_sw_r_fa_dp_t2… |
| Link Hudson |
Troy Day, I am a follower of Jesus Christ, and a servant of God. As far as the A/G statement goes, I’d agree with it for the most part except that I think their definition of ‘sanctification’ is narrower than the usage in scripture.”Sanctification is “an act of separation from that which is evil, and of dedication unto God”. It occurs when the believer identifies with, and has faith in, Christ in his death and resurrection. It is understood to be a process in that it requires continual yielding to the Holy Spirit.”Sanctification includes separating from that which is evil, but one can sanctify oneself and dedicate oneself to God in ways other than separating from what is evil. Not washing your clothes for a night is not evil, for example. I see sanctification as something that occurs at salvation (e.g. I Corinthians 6), an ongoing process, and there can also be specific times or periods of self-consecration– sanctifying oneself. That seems consistent with the Biblical usage and concept.The one area I’d disagree with regarding the wording of the A/G is that, while it allows for both separation from that which is evil and dedication to God in the definition of ‘sanctification’ it treats both as if they are the same act, which they need not be. Again, the example in Exodus. |
| Link Hudson |
Troy Day I was thinking you could start with re-reading the brief quote from the A/G Fundamental Truth’s statement I quoted a second time really slow. I don’t see how you can read that and conclude the A/G believes ‘believe happens between salvation and Holy Spirit baptism’ unless you are referring to an ongoing process that includes that process and the rest of a believer’s life. |
| Joe Absher |
Do you mean the one from wicipedia? Not that desperate thanks… Do you have a Matt Henry? hope you can smile, it’s early but 🙂 |
| Link Hudson |
You mean Matthew Henry’s commentary made up of flowery sermons? |
| Joe Absher |
Jesus is the Lily in the valley. 🙂 |
| Marc Jackson |
Link Hudson How do you feel your quote differs from my quote from the same AG essential truths? It is your unsubstantiated understanding or failure to understand of the doctrine of sanctification that we are stumbling upon again and again Also again and again – where did I misrepresent your words? |
| Terry Wiles |
AG doctrine re sanctification is immediately in the sense that “in Christ” we are saints but progressive from mans view of himself and the holiness that is attainable as things day by day progressively become new. |
| Link Hudson |
Troy Day, Do you have a particular point of disagreement, or do you just like to be disagreeable for the sake of it? If you have something in particular you do not agree with in posts, you could simply address your point of disagreement. The way you post, I wonder if you are just board and want attention.Read my words and read the words of the A/G quote very carefully and look for the distinction I made which I explained in detail. I wrote this above:”The one area I’d disagree with regarding the wording of the A/G is that, while it allows for both separation from that which is evil and dedication to God in the definition of ‘sanctification’ it treats both as if they are the same act, which they need not be. Again, the example in Exodus.”A believe who already abstains from sin may sanctify himself through prayer and fasting. Abstaining from sin and dedicating oneself to God is not always one ‘act’. |
| Link Hudson |
Troy Day, This is a post you made that presented views that I did not post.”You still think progressive sanctification is the one that is not over until we get to heaven. But wait, do you even believe we will be going to a physical heaven? Probably not – so your progressive sanctification view is somewhere out there but hardly within the scope of Pentecostal theology”This also contradicts what I have posted on the topic:”once and for all Link Hudson [no further sanctification needed]”That was not my viewpoint. We are sanctified when we are saved, and we are to remain sanctified, so it is an ongoing thing. |
| Marc Jackson |
I understand that but still dont see how what I wrote contradicts with your conviction in any way. By no way it was meant or misrepresents your views whatever they may be. I am simply addressing the issue we are discussing You however seem to be misrepresenting what I wrote in my post |
| Joe Absher |
If I could say thank you I would be very happy. Thank you for your help with this great doctrine, Sanctification. I’ve heard that sanctification has always been the precursor to a wider revival. And I believe it. Personally I hope to be able to communicate God cleansing and keeping power. Each of you have helped me. Link Hudson. Mr. Troy Day. I’m sure that each of you have been talking about this with your friends. And I pray sanctification and a whole hearted love for God and deliverance from sin it’s curse and bondage. Ira Huth and I have and it’s so good to be honest and forthright with each other.I can’t explain it may as well as some of you. God helps me. He gives grace and bunches of too. And even some few little weapons can effective when they are devoted to honoring Jesus Christ. I do believe and preach if love love God you won’t abuse his name and if you love your neighbor you won’t steal his car or run off with Sunday school teacher. So love and a heart for souls, eternal souls and passion for Jesus Christ. I mean he is best. The best I know. Maybe sanctification is loyalty to Him. Maybe Righteousness is doing right by God his son our Saviour our friends our church the pastor. Or die trying. You could probably tell if a man is sanctified by the way he treats his pastor or his wife or his children. Anyways thank you all. |
| Link Hudson |
Troy Day I looked back at one of your posts I commented on. it sure looked like you were attributing an idea to me and certain ideas to others. The way you use tags is not the same way anyone else uses tags. Most people use them them as part of a sentence, not throwing someone’s name in the middle of a sentence to get their attention without their name having any meaning in the sentence. I suppose you could write a sentence with tags at the end or use some commentary. You see how I interpreted your sentence about what the A/G believe, right?I referred to another post where you were beating up a straw man and attributing it to me. The one where you mentioned the ‘physical heaven.’You haven’t explained your own view on sanctification other than to say it is Wesleyan. Did Wesley believe you had to be entirely sanctified before being baptized in the Holy Spirit with the evidence of speaking in other tongues? |
| Marc Jackson |
Link Hudson It may look to you but it is simply not. This is only your interpretation which misrepresents my original idea in this post. You seem to have shown here a progressive misunderstanding (which I hope not is a purposeful misrepresentation) of my words. Again and again: I nowhere said this was your opinion or belief. BTW it’s the internet – everyone uses tags. Welcome to Facebook and 21st century. I tagged you to inquire your opinion on the issues of once and for all Link Hudson [no further sanctification needed]Nowhere I’ve said this is or is not your stance. At this point I have no clue what you believe except what you have shown as much different than the classical Pentecostal doctrine. Therefore I have not misinterpreted your words. These are my words to you tagging you and addressing you with the tag on the issues I’d like to discuss with you. Why you feel this is your belief I have not a clue. Perhaps it is. Who can even begin to tell what you believe any longer?And once again just to summarize and clarify for your wondering mind: Show me where I misrepresented your stance? Nowhere. You are simply out of arguments and resorting to ad hominem attacks. Stick to the OP or find another hobby 🙂 |
| Link Hudson |
Troy Day, I explained what I believed over and over. You haven’t. You say you hold to a Wesleyan view, but did he believe in ‘saved, and filled with the Holy Ghost’ as three steps? Do you? A lot of viewpoints could be considered ‘Wesleyan’ including people who believe the sanctified will never sin again. |
| Link Hudson |
As far as my own view goes, I compared and contrasted it with the A/G view. My main difference with the A/G Funadmental Truth statement (is it no. 9?) is that it treats the act of separating from evil and devoting oneself to God as if it were always the same thing. One can be not sinning and still sanctify oneself. Not washing ones clothes or having sex with one’s wife (Exodus example) is not evil. I see sanctification is something that occurs when one is made a new creature in Christ Jesus, something the believer walks in throughout his life, and as something a believer– even one who is not in sin– can do to devote himself to God. It is also the work of God in a believer’s life. Abstaining from sin is part of sanctification, but not all of it. |
| Marc Jackson |
Actually, I have explained my view on sanctification in this group very very carefully in detail and on many occasions. Please review ALL these discussions and topics posted before making ad hominem attacks again or resort to blaming someone for misrepresenting your otherwise poorly constructed and confused view on classical Pentecostal doctrines . Please reread them carefully and ask your questions. I will be glad to answer and discuss; however I will not entertain anymore personal ad hominem attacks from you any longer http://www.pentecostaltheology.com/?s=sanctification |
| Link Hudson |
Troy Day The misrepresentation has to do with what you wrote about me, not everything you have written on sanctification or Brother Melvin’s video.Facebook also does not have a good layout for looking up old posts. |
| Marc Jackson |
Link Hudson about you or about your stance ? You are getting very vague and confusing in your blame. I never wrote anything about you personally. I have not written that much about your view either b/c it is not clear to me. I tagged you into a statement which demanded your response and BTW a statement which you have made on a great number of occasions (like your wrong understanding of OSAS – -one saved always saved which you have taken into sanctification) I have not offered you facebook or Melvin’s stance. I posted you my own Multiple posts with multiple discussions stating clearly my Pentecostal view Here it is again You would understand that with all this said I will not entertain anymore petty remarks (which were pointed to you above) or personal ad hominem attacks (which were also pointed to you above) from you http://www.pentecostaltheology.com/?s=sanctification… |
| Joe Absher |
What about repentance. Is there an,..ENTIRE REPENTANCEWhat about surrender,Is there an,..ENTIRE SURRENDERWhat about obedience,Is there an,..ENTIRE OBEDIENCEWhat about liberty,Is there an,..ENTIRE LIBERTYWhat about love,Is there an,..ENTIRE LOVEWhat about devotion,Is there an,..ENTIRE DEVOTIONWhat about grace,Is there an,ENTIRE GRACEWELL and my boss always says that’s a deep subject, What about sanctification,There is an, ENTIRE SANCTIFICATION |
| Marc Jackson |
Terry Wiles as long as we agree AG doctrine re sanctification is immediately there is very little to argue against classical Pentecostal instantaneous sanctification doctrine |
| Melvin Harter |
LAX AND LOOSE IN THEIR LIVING. https://youtu.be/4lrPwj3-_cQ |
| Joe Absher |
When a man finds out God judges sin and he’s holding on to some. And here God promises to save deliver and keep. And it’s only laziness, unbelief, stubbornness, rebellion and pride for him not to ask God’s help and get rid of it. That’s a crisis.For me it was different to repent for guilt and fear of hell than to repent for offending God. And rebelling against Him personally his plan, his efforts, his will for me, my family, my friends.For me the coup de grace was Romans 10:3,4″For they being ignorant of God’s righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.””..HAVE NOT SUBMITTED..” |
Tyler Garner
I’m AG and that’s not true lol you just post stuff on here
One of our cardinal doctrines is salvation is instant, and sanctification is a process until the lord returns
Varnel Watson
answer THIS Ebenezer P Samuel
Can one receive the Holy Ghost with unsanctified heart?
Ebenezer P Samuel
One will receive the Holy Spirit after salvation.
Filling of the Spirit and sanctification are ongoing processes.
Progressive sanctification: becoming more Christlike
and have put on the new self, which is being renewed in knowledge in the image of its Creator.
Colossians 3:10
Ebenezer P Samuel
https://ag.org/Beliefs/Statement-of-Fundamental-Truths
Jeanette Elizondo
No !! Sanctification is a Process Day by Day we Grow in Sanctification !!
Thomas Henry Jr.
AG has always been finished work or keswichian in their approach to sanctification
Brad Good
https://ag.org/Beliefs/Statement-of-Fundamental-Truths#9
Louise Cummings
I gave my life to the Lord at nine years old. I believe I was really saved at the point s 9 year old understand. Because I believe The Lord show me something , while I was at school. But later when I got really serious with God. I was really Hungary for Him now. Even The Holy Ghost. When I was at the alter praying I believe I got Sanctification , and the Baptism Of The Holy Ghost at the same time. But to answer it the way you ask. I don’t know for sure. I don’t. Know how Assemblies Of God believe it.
RichardAnna Boyce
Louise Cummings, Ephesians 1:13-14
The gospel is the message that brings salvation. After hearing the message the Ephesians believed and then instantaneously were sealed by the Holy Spirit. Sealing suggests security (cf. Eph 4:30). The moment one believes in Jesus Christ he is sealed by the Holy Spirit and is thus secure and safe forever. Believers can know that the moment they trust in Christ as their Savior they are sealed by the Holy Spirit and are safe forever. Believers have the assurance of salvation based on Christ’s promises (cf. John 5:24; 6:35; 11:26). Sealing also suggests ownership. The Holy Spirit’s seal reminds believers that they belong to God (Rom 8:16-17).
1:14. The Holy Spirit is the guarantee of our inheritance. The word guarantee means a pledge or down payment. The Holy Spirit given to believers guarantees their future inheritance. The redemption of the purchased possession will take place when Jesus Christ returns and establishes His righteous kingdom. All believers are His purchased possession since He has bought them. The redemption mentioned in this verse differs from that referred to in v 7. Justification is the focus in v 7, and glorification is in view in v 14. God will complete His plan of redemption when He gives believers glorified bodies and removes all taint of sin from the earth and the universe. As before, the work of God through the Holy Spirit in His sealing of believers is to the praise of His glory.
May God be praised for all the blessings He has given because of the believers’ union in Christ which comes by faith.
Louise Cummings
Louise Cummings
I also believe we have to stay prayed up.
Varnel Watson
I have found social drinkers to be touchy on this one
Louise Cummings
Modern churches , believed in many things they didn’t use to. I guess we have some in just about every church. I just can’t believe in it.
George Hartwell
One of the tragedies of men, institutions and the church is that what brought life turns into a rigid doctrine lacking grace and life. In my view progressive sanctification is about dealing with sin through Jesus’ death on the cross and dealing with idols of the heart. I believe the early Methodists had practices that dealt with idols of the heart. All that became distorted into a prayer to receive the Holy Spirit which later Methodists thought was entire sanctification. No it is not. There is hard work to do between us and God to clean up our heart. When it is done we can receive a greater filling and peace with God.
Louise Cummings
I believe when you are girly saved , and Sanctified. You loose your desire to sin. It doesn’t me the devil won’t eve bring something , that will try to stop us. Because Yhe Bible says we don’t fight against flesh and blood ,but against principalities. Spiritual weaknesses, I High places. But He tell us not to be afraid. Because He has overcome the world. So can we. I don’t remember just how it’s quoted. But something like that.
Louise Cummings
That’s suppose to be really saved. My phone is really messing up.
Chris Norris
Funny, the Assembly of God Statements of Faith don’t say that! Do you guys actually research before you post? I mean, you could seriously lead someone astray like that!
Varnel Watson
are you sure about that? Does AG require sanctification BEFORE receiving the Holy Spirit or any sinner can be baptized without a clean heart?
Chris Norris
Well, I grew up in the Church of God so I am more familiar with their doctrine. However, reading the AG Statements of Faith, it seems to indicate that they believe in a definite act of sanctification with an ongoing sanctification following.
Louise Cummings
Ephesians 6:12. For we wrestle not against flesh and blood,but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world , against spiritual wickedness in high places.
Steve Losee
Sorry; the NT takes precedence. And it was writte to correct & rebuke CHRISTIANS.
Varnel Watson
about what?
Steve Losee
about sexual morality, petty divisions, drunkenness at communion (I Cor), false teachers (Tim & Titus ltrs), etc.
Varnel Watson
not sure what you mean in regard of OP but it will be glad to discuss
Steve Losee
I was taking exception to the term “Entire Sanctification”. I’m convinced it’s a process rather than a crisis event.
Varnel Watson
Steve Losee does this make it NOT entire? I believe you were addressing INSTANT instead
Steve Losee
okay; that’s really it. Thanks for the correction there. But that word’s there also. 🙂
Varnel Watson
Steve Losee instant and entire are NOT the same What books or scholars have you read on the subject? I;ve found most ppl who dont know the difference have not read much about it in the Bible but blindly follow progressive teaching
Varnel Watson
What is your take on this? Chris Friend
Jeanette Elizondo
Sanctification is a process as we grow in Christ !!
Varnel Watson
says who?
Jeanette Elizondo
The Word !!
Varnel Watson
the WORD only
Varnel Watson
Dan Brent you have indeed brought back a GREAT point of discussion we have pondered upon before several times and then time and time again
I have concluded after much studies and many years that our AG TOO believes in ENTIRE sanctification at the point of salvation
IF NOT we cannot receive the Holy Ghost in clean vessels Meaning ne cannot claim Holy Ghost baptism except IF first the inner man/hear is entirely cleaned
RichardAnna Boyce has called it positional BUT THE BIBLE speaks of NO positional sanctification As Melvin Harter has pointed OUT ONE is either entirely sanctified or NOT – position dont matter
Is there still a substantial division between holiness pentecostals and the Assemblies of God? Reading through Arrington and Horton on sanctification leads me to think there’s been a general convergence on this issue in the contemporary context. There are some still teaching that sanctification is a second, definite work of grace, but even in the old holiness pentecostal churches, folks still teaching the 2nd definite work seem to be an exception rather than the norm.
What do y’all think?
Anonymous
Our organizations made some revisions in 1961. Here are some quotations from William Menzies and Stanley Horton’s book Bible Doctrines – A Pentecostal Perspective:
“The original statement served the Assemblies of God well for many years. There was little dissatisfaction with any of the sixteen points. However, since some of the doctrines were stated quite briefly, it was felt that some of needed clarification and enlarging. In 1960, a committee worked on this and minor rewording and clarity. The work was approved and adopted by the General Council in 1961. The only significant change was in dropping the term “entire sanctification,” because it was understood in different ways by different theologians and was thus ambiguous. “The
clarification of 1961 specified the belief that the imputed righteousness accorded the believer at his justification was to be exhibited in a life of holiness.”
Anonymous
This is from the FUNDAMENTAL TRUTHS of the ASSEMBLIES of GOD:Sanctification is an act of separation from that which is evil, and of dedication unto God:Romans 12:1,21 Thessalonians 5:23Hebrews 13:12The Scriptures teach a life of “holiness without which no man shall see the Lord.â€�Hebrews 12:14By the power of the Holy Spirit we are able to obey the command: “Be ye holy, for I am holy.â€�1 Peter 1:15,16Sanctification is realized in the believer by recognizing his identification with Christ in His death and resurrection, and by the faith reckoning daily upon the fact of that union, and by offering every faculty continually to the dominion of the Holy Spirit. AOG believes at certain point in life you’ve got to get sanctified in order to see God. Most AOG believe it is before you receive the Holy Spirit. You seem no to hold such view or any view of sanctification at that matterhttp://www.pentecostaltheology.com/what-virtually-all…/
Anonymous
I’ve been saved, sanctified and filled with the Holy Ghost with the initial evidence of speaking in other tongues – have you?
Anonymous
Link Hudson in the last thing I read by you you said:The COG denomination or precursor to the denomination apparently got the three-step idea after Cashwell went to Azusa Street. This is simply NOT true! The COG denomination or precursor to the denomination claim Holy Spirit baptism as early as 1896 and taught sanctification much much earlier. Cashwell came around them about 15-20 years later
Anonymous
Troy Day I know this thread is on Sanctification but if I remember right the gift of speaking in tongues was present in 1896 but not linked to receiving the BHS until Parham in 1901 or Azusa St 1906?
Anonymous
This is from the FUNDAMENTAL TRUTHS of the ASSEMBLIES of GOD:Sanctification is an act of separation from that which is evil, and of dedication unto God:Romans 12:1,21 Thessalonians 5:23Hebrews 13:12The Scriptures teach a life of “holiness without which no man shall see the Lord.â€�Hebrews 12:14By the power of the Holy Spirit we are able to obey the command: “Be ye holy, for I am holy.â€�1 Peter 1:15,16Sanctification is realized in the believer by recognizing his identification with Christ in His death and resurrection, and by the faith reckoning daily upon the fact of that union, and by offering every faculty continually to the dominion of the Holy Spirit. AOG believes at certain point in life you’ve got to get sanctified in order to see God. Most AOG believe it is before you receive the Holy Spirit. You seem no to hold such view or any view of sanctification at that matterhttp://www.pentecostaltheology.com/what-virtually-all…/