| Bibliata Net |
Terry Wiles This topic seems to keep on coming up for some reason. Where can we find the video tapes Bronsweek and Pensicolla revivals used to send to AG churches teaching them how to “start” and “have” a revival in their respective locations? Does any AG library or archive have them? |
| Terry Wiles |
Brownsville was Torontoism not AG. It is true many AG leaders supported it but my personal knowledge is that there was serious division at the top. The division resulted in them adopting verbatim Resolution 16 which rejects the ideology of Torontoism. I am not personally aware of any video tapes that were sent to churches. But there probably are some. Inside staff at Brownsville considered the show to be a huge “cash cow” (in their own words). Brownsville school of revival did have some manuals and teaching material but as you know there is very little that remains of the wild fire. I’m sure you can find some tapes on some of the heresy hunter websites but they have their own bias. Everyone I know who jumped in the river found it to be a very rocky ride. Many of them didn’t survive the whirlpool and their churches have not recovered. |
| Bibliata Net |
Assemblies of God issued a statement about revivals that, while not targeting the Florida Outpouring specifically, seems to caution people about it. For example, one guideline warned against Christians being “overly enamored with charismatic manifestations.” Third Wave-influenced ministers and materials has been invading otherwise, Lakeland meetings were also mimicked in Dudley, England and predictably by Gerald Coates who tried to copy the failed Pensacola revival in London There was also another Response Paper to Resolution 16 http://ag.org/…/pos…/pp_downloads/pp_endtime_revival.pdf |
| Terry Wiles |
Yes, this is true. The official responses were all connected. Those were times of turmoil. Is certainly something to think about considering the current state or lack of existence of Brownsville and Lakeland. It’s sobering to remember that an Old Testament Prophet was told God is not always in the wind. The biblical word for wind refers to the Spirit of God, the spirit of man, or the spirit of evil. It is important to carefully manifest discernment. |
| Bibliata Net |
Was article 16 preliminary or final on the study materials too? |
| Terry Wiles |
16 was preliminary at a general council in Orlando. It was presented and then referred to committee where it was first adopted as a white paper then appeared as a position paper where I believe it still stands today. |
| Mike Evans |
I spent time at Brownsville from the beginning. I pastored not too far from Pensacola at the time. The Church I was at was in a time of revival that began just before the revival in Brownsville. I am thankful that my son was able to experience such a powerful presence of God. I have seen several revivals in my ministry after that time as well. I am thankful that God has chosen to allow me to pastor such powerful events which brought souls into the Kingdom. We must be careful that it is not the manifestation that we chase but a deeper walk with Jesus. When we seek Him we will see the power of God in our lives. I believe this was always the emphasis at Brownsville. However, there were people who were attracted to the manifestations. This does not demean the fact that many people came to a knowledge of Jesus at that time. Many Christians who were cold were revived. I still pray today, “Lord, don’t let my last revival be my last revival.”I’ll not run from the true manifestation because someone counterfeits it. No one counterfeits the fake; no one prints monopoly money.We must test the spirits. |
| Brian Roden |
I think many times we try to continue in the flesh what was begun in the Spirit. That seems to be what happened with Pensacola. What God sent to that community at that time became a marketed product people tried to export. Same basic problem we see with church growth conferences. We hear what God did through evangelistic programs in a certain context, and try to replicate it in a different context by importing and implementing the programs wholesale without discerning how God is already working in our own communities.Lakeland (Todd Bentley) is a different story in my opinion. From things I heard from the early weeks of those meetings, the Holy Spirit made me feel things weren’t right. Sadly, those inklings turned out to be proven true in the end. |
| Marc Jackson |
Seek and you shall fing Terry Wiles from this point I am not accepting any denial of Resolution 16 attack to protect purposes or lack of awareness of Brownsville/Lakeland Revival tapes and or manuals which were sent to our AoG congregations? More to come |
| Terry Wiles |
As one of the authors I can say I never saw this and never heard of it being sent to any AOG church. Certainly it was promoted by the leaders of the Brownsville and Toronto movement. Those who visited there are known to have brought material back into their churches. Many churches were divided. And that was the purpose of resolution 16. To make a counter statement. I am thankful that it remains as a position paper today. |
| Marc Jackson |
obviously dated 2018 establishing a long term tradition prior to res16 |
| Terry Wiles |
Not sure what you are implying. But the “Latter Rain†practices have been resurrected many times with many variations sense the 1940s. It is interesting that in every manifestation the result is the same: division of churches. That, IMO, is evidence of a counterfeit “sâ€pirit, which is evidence that it is not from God although some are brought to God. The Devil copies God but never produces godly results. |
| Marc Jackson |
William DeArteaga true or xoah? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lN-xWp1aC-k&feature=share |
| William DeArteaga |
Good grief! |
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| Marc Jackson |
I was hoping it was a joke but … SOURCE: Todd Bentley shared Paul Brown’s live video.April 4 at 3:59pm · Want to join our Dead Raising classes? Move in Resurrection!https://www.facebook.com/toddbentley/posts/10217233137599715 |
| Marc Jackson |
Does the above promo justify Resolution 16? Dan Irving |
| Dan Irving |
The hook is in the water. |
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| Marc Jackson |
Terry Wiles not implying anything. Just following the evidence. It all comes out in the wash. There is certainly a pattern here wouldnt you say? |
| Terry Wiles |
From individuals yes. But the General Council does not promote what you have posted. That is Bentley and his agents |
| Marc Jackson |
Well wasnt Resolution 16 prompted namely by Bentley’s tapes and manuals. Seems like this is his established pattern which is now being renewed again after his down time |
| Terry Wiles |
As the presenter on the council floor I can say absolutely not. |
| Marc Jackson |
Sorry for the delay I dont really post during church hours. Were you as presenter on the floor aware that Bantley will teach people to raise the dead in 2018 (for $50). I was speaking of the pattern he has established with this type of “revival” training in the past 20 years |
| Terry Wiles |
Of course. Anybody that runs after that ilk deserves the spirits he passes on. |
| Marc Jackson |
Again my comment was not about ill theology or any other prior consideration JUST about the fact that this establish the pattern we have been discussing. I also doubt that when presenting on the floor 20yrs ago you claimed prophetic knowledge they will teach how to raise the dead in 2018 |
| Terry Wiles |
And my point is that the AG OFFICIALLY has warned its pastors about these teachings while at the same time because of networking and following after signs many credential holders have embraced them. |
| Marc Jackson |
Where is the said AG OFFICIAL notification or was that what Resolution 16 was intended for? |
| Terry Wiles |
That is what Resolution 16 was intended for from the beginning and why it eventually became a position paper on action from the executive presbytery. Also, the constitution/bylaws has a warning about turning ones pulpit over to non AG speakers. The purpose for this was to protect sound doctrine. However, about half of the AG ignores the warnings and embrace whatever/whomever the present Pastor promotes. This makes it impossible to recommend another AG church based on doctrinal belief and practice. One never knows what “stream†is flowing at an individual church until one settles in. |
| Marc Jackson |
Not sure how can you say that Please elaborate more |
| Terry Wiles |
I was there |
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| Dan Irving |
Streams, Troy. |
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| Dan Irving |
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| Terry Wiles |
Lol |
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| Marc Jackson |
Terry Wiles how does you being there 20 yrs ago validate Raising the Dead seminar for $50 in 2018? I dont get it |
| Terry Wiles |
Troy Day. You are very hard to communicate with. I’m only validating the fact that res 16s, and following white paper then position paper, was for the purpose of standing against these teachings and to warn pastors to be careful what they were permitting. I know this was the purposeBecause I was there. |
| Marc Jackson |
But we have already established res 16 is not the issue here. The general reaction of our church is. Also the pattern established by Bentley and others to “teach” revival and resurrection for a fee and to mail manuals and solicitation to our churches. What’s res 16 got to do with it? |
| Terry Wiles |
How do you stopBentley? And who are you referring to when you use the words “our churchâ€. |
| Marc Jackson |
AG with res16? |
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| Terry Wiles |
Red 16 has no power to stop anything. It is advice to be cautious. |
| Terry Wiles |
Is Bentley AG? |
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| Marc Jackson |
See my response below |
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| Marc Jackson |
Was Bentley ministering @ AG churches during the Lakeland “Florida Outpouring” and fishing in many more AG later? http://blog.thewaycf.com/…/open-letter-assemblies-of…Did Assemblies of God stand firmly against the “Latter Rain” movement at General Council in 1949 listing the erroneous doctrines they were dealing with at the time and condemning them as unbiblical and heretical. Then at General Council in 2000 they reaffirmed their stance in Resolution 16 concerning the same? http://community.beliefnet.com/…/The_Assemblies_of_God…Did later Dr. George Wood rebukes Todd Bentley? … and so on #patterns https://truedsicernment.com/…/assemblies-of-god-dr…/ |
| Marc Jackson |
bro Terry seems like some answers are not worth questioning |
| Terry Wiles |
Are you Assemblies of God. |
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| Marc Jackson |
4th gen – are you? |
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| Terry Wiles |
Yes in most aspects. |
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| Marc Jackson |
I was under the impression you’ve left the AG? |
| Terry Wiles |
I don’t hold their credentials but I’m with them in every other respect. Long story but it was an agreed upon move because of political issues with property rights in another country. |
| Marc Jackson |
Seems like lots has changed here since you’ve left |
| Terry Wiles |
It really. |
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| Terry Wiles |
I still pastor one of the GC churches. myccc.church |
| Marc Jackson |
I tried to find one of your sermons there but could not |
| Terry Wiles |
http://www.myccc.church/…/preacher/bishop-terry-wiles/ |
| Marc Jackson |
Yes fond one You last preached Jan 7 How do you pastor AG church and not preach the Easter sermon |
| Terry Wiles |
Lol. Had major surgery. I also built a multigenerational church over the last 37 years. It’s all about raising up leaders. |
| Terry Wiles |
The link I shared has many sermons if you scroll up. Or down. |
| Marc Jackson |
I saw one Jan 7 Sorry about your major surgery |
Varnel Watson
what is the ATL connection again? Charles Page
Varnel Watson
In a recent planning event of the Wittenberg Summit for the 500th anniversary of the Protestant Reformation, we were in the company of some charismatic scholars and theological supports of the Kansas City prophets. During the deliberations, it was remembered that in his 2004 book on Radical Holiness https://www.amazon.com/Radical-Holiness-Living-Peter-Wagner/dp/1585020117/ref=sr_1_1?keywords=radical+holiness&qid=1566552126&s=gateway&sr=8-1
Peter Wagner renounces the reformed holiness doctrine he learned at both Fuller and Princeton; only to recognize and promote a world-wide Pentecostal embrace of Wesleyan sanctification theology. He even goes in detail to list various denominations Wesleyan sanctification like Nazarene, Salvation Army and Church of God (he points out the one in Anderson, IN).
Soon enough after the meetings, I was able to review and re-read the book since my first read was years ago. Wagner not only embraces Wesleyan sanctification theology, he speaks of the holiness standard as a legal action under the Law and the believer as made ready to be holy and sinless within this lifetime and before meeting Christ physically in the resurrection reality of the after life.
It made me think how important entire sanctification and holiness lifestyle is not only to Pentecostals but to Chariamstics and obviously even ultra Charismatic theology. The Bible is clear that one cannot be a true Pentecostal believer if does not believe in entire sanctification and practice life of holiness. But with Wagner’s book in hand, it is clear that one cannot be even a Charismatic without holding entire sanctification and practice life of holiness… RichardAnna Boyce Philip Williams
Varnel Watson
What is your take on this? Chris Friend
Anonymous
there you go again Angel Bonilla Αγγελος Ρουίζ