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Troy Day | PentecostalTheology.com
Abandoning your roots VS rethinking your theology
Abandoning your roots VS rethinking your theology
If you are going to come against one’s ecclesial convictions like
Link does against Speaking in tongues (vs Baptist)
Henry does against Pentecostal theology (vs Reforfmed)
Peter against Church leadership
and Charles against Church’s historical mer… /etc/
| Troy DayYou | Something for Christians to consider and think about in this election season … |
| Robert Borders | Theology can be evolving without having strong roots. The Holy Spirit can lead us into truth. |
| Troy DayYou | Unfortunately the trend today is abandoning faith roots without much Theology evolving – and more often even without any Theology at all |
| Robert Borders | My biggest evolution in process relates to ecclesiology and eschetology. |
| Troy DayYou | Hope you are not NAR and Kingdom now |
| Robert Borders | There are many different views within NAR which I am not involved with. Peter Wagner died two days ago and will be sadly missed by the Body of Christ even if not part of the NAR. Peter is a good example of how one’s theology can change over a lifetime based upon research and study as well as personal experience. |
| Troy DayYou | Yes you are right brother |
| Bibliata Net | The pseudo theology proposing initial evidence other than speaking in tongues is demissive. The Bible in no way suggests replacing speaking in tongues with love or any other actiona and/or characteric |
| Robert Borders | Many cults and false religious speak in tongues. Tongues does not necessarily prove anything. |
| Bibliata Net | Speaking in tongues indicates baptism with the Holy Ghost as initial evidence following salvation and sanctification of clean heart. Those cults and others speaking their tongues hardly qualify as saved and sanctified, so comparing to them is like apples to oranges |
| Robert Borders | What about multitudes of tongue talking Pentecostals that bear no spiritual fruit? |
| Bibliata Net | 1 Cor 14 is not about the initial evidence. There’s a difference between the the initial evidence and the gift of speaking in tongues |
| Robert Borders | Circular reasoning? |
| Bibliata Net | Nope. Biblical theology as applied by ap. Paul |
| Troy DayYou | Posted many moons ago to discuss mainly folk who abandon holiness and baptism doctrine go reformed, calvinist or whatever new doctrine they were not brought up into. Same goes for abandoning ones religious roots for political reasons What is your opinion? Timothy Carter |
| Timothy Carter | I believe that this would need to be considered case by case. Everyone’s spiritual journey is unique. Obviously, there are Biblical principles/truths that must not be put aside such as Christ and Him crucified- raised on the third day. But, there are other things that Christian’s will always struggle to accept from different beliefs within the Christian faith. We must remember that everyone grows spiritually at different rates. When someone has abandoned the teaching of his/her childhood church, we can expect that he/she has done so with good reason. We may not ever know or understand the reasons but it is important to continue to love each other and support each other as we all seek the heart of Christ. Jesus said, “For he that is not against us is for us” (Mark 9:40 ERV). The Apostle Paul explanations that God is working inside each of us to help us become what He wants. Each person is responsible for his/her self.Philippians 2:12-13My dear friends, you always obeyed what you were taught. Just as you obeyed when I was with you, it is even more important for you to obey now that I am not there. So you must continue to live in a way that gives meaning to your salvation. Do this with fear and respect for God. 13 Yes, it is God who is working in you. He helps you want to do what pleases him, and he gives you the power to do it.It is very important for us to understand that as we make our plain for salvation that we do so with the Fear of the Lord. Our lives must be rooted in the Word. If not we will fool ourselves into a life of sin.When a person rejects the teaching of their childhood sometimes, it is to help them grow closer to God. Other times, it is because they have rejected Christ. If we see a fellow beliver who has abandoned the teaching of their childhood but are still seeking to follow Christ, we should rejoice. |
| Ira Huth | Amen Brother Timothy Carter!!! |
| Troy DayYou | Timothy Ira It would have been well to consider it case by case if it was not such a mass epidemics Ricky Grimsley do not believe in pre-Trib rapturePaul Hughes dont believe in entire sanctification Walter Polasik and man other dont believe in initial evidence so many others dont believe in eternal Sonshipthe rest remaining dont believe in the TrinityBrody Pope has reported many not believing in healing from GodI actually HAVE taken them case by case this past year and when does that it seems like dealing with a legion Have such abandoned their roots while rethinking their theology? Well, they came from us but we’re not of us |
| Timothy Carter | There is most definitely a problem when someone rejects Christ as God’s eternal Son. This is a rejection of salvation. The other issues listed here are not a requirement for salvation. There is a serious problem when a person rejects the Trinity. A person can have salvation in Christ and not understand the teaching of the Tribulation; Sanctification; not understanding Devine Healing; and the list continues. But, I don’t believe that a person can have Salvation in Christ when he/she rejects the Trinity or the Divinity of Christ. |
| Ira Huth | I think Troy Day there might be and I said might be a hidden agenda and or reasoning why it is such a mass epidemic. So to speak, if you know what I mean. |
| Ira Huth | Just a thought! |
| Troy DayYou | Ira I wholeheartedly agree but how do we fix it? |
| Ricky Grimsley | Lol pretrib a mass epidemic….it didnt even exist as an idea 150 years ago. |
| Troy DayYou | Here’s your argument turned around Ricky Grimsley I dont study what existed 150 yrs ago I study the Bible which speaks of pre-Trib Rapture. The church fathers who also studied the Bible only since there was nothing else around believed it too BUT lets not make this conv. about the rapture too. There is much more at stake here |
| Ira Huth | Back to the simple basics the Trinity in the Word. Plan and simple Troy Day. |
| Troy DayYou | I believe in the divine Trinity. No Christianity without it. I also believe in the triuine nature of man, though the Bible is not explicit on it as much as some want it to be |
| Troy DayYou | Wrong again Ricky Grimsley Virtually all Ancient Church Fathers Believed in Pre-Trib Rapture http://www.pentecostaltheology.com/the-ancient-church…/ |
| Ricky Grimsley | Have you read that article. Name one church Father that said jesus will return before Antichrist |
| Troy DayYou | What does the Antichrist has to do with it? Do you mean the best? |
| Ricky Grimsley | Because 2Thessalonians kills pretrib by explaining the Antichrist comes before christ comes back |
| Troy DayYou | 2Thessalonians has the word antichrist in the text or you put it there? |
| Walter | It doesn’t have the word “anti-Christ” but the individual it describes (as the Bible does in other language elsewhere) is definitely antichrist and early church fathers have recognized this as such. Only Reformed theologians take to allegorical views of what this might mean. But then, Reformed aren’t usually pre-Trib anyway and they perpetuate the lie that the Early Church didn’t teach the chiliasm. But this has been historically proven to be a false approach. It’s just that there is, even among the most conservative Reformed theologians, that Liberal, anti-literal interpretation streak. |
| Ricky Grimsley | |
| Walter | Show me otherwise Ricky. |
| Ricky Grimsley | Show you what? |
| Ricky Grimsley | Cmon troy why the foolish talk. Everyone knows its the Antichrist in Thessalonians 2. If you dont think so, you should probably quit talking about eschatology |
| Walter | Troy is in a world of his own. I’ve already debated him on other issues. |
| Troy DayYou | You mean the world of Pentecostal theology where people still believe in pre-Trib rapture, right? What world are you in? |
| Walter | Troy Day: It’s possible I’d lost track of who was defending what in this thread. I certainly believe in a pre-Trib Rapture. |
| Troy DayYou | Ricky Grimsley Ephraim the Syrian wrote: For all the saints and elect of God are gathered, prior to the tribulation that is to come, and are taken to the Lord lest they see the confusion that is to overwhelm the world because of our sins. |
| Danny Lirette | False; he did not teach any such thing: you quoted the Latin translation of the forgery; Pseudo-Ephraem. Ephraem was dead for 400 years by the time this was written. The Syriac of Pseudo-Ephraem literally reads: “Pronouncing the good fortune of the deceased Who had avoided the calamity: ‘Blessed are you for you were borne away (to the grave) And hence you escaped from the afflictions!”The text itself was after 700 A.D |
| Troy DayYou | Actually I’ve seen this argument before and its false. Even the style of writing dates at 4AD |
| Troy DayYou | The text is based on two manuscripts: (1) Codex Vaticanus Sir. 566, and (2) Codex Dublinensis (Trinity College) I have seen the one @ Trinity and can show you even my own pictures 🙂 It dont get more authentic than that I could not gain access to the vatican version |
| Ricky Grimsley | Prewrath teaches that the rapture happens before the tribulation of matthew 24:21. What more do you want. I think if you understood the prewrath position you would believe it. |
| Troy DayYou | Walter Polasik As long as we all make it to heaven one day |
| Walter | Troy Day: Well, just think of this: in heaven we won’t need Facebook to fellowship and discuss theology and then I can be a patient teacher and harangue you all eternity long until you get it!😂 |
| Troy DayYou | given you make to heaven – some today believe the church will not go to heaven but just stay here Yet there we shall know all as it is |
Varnel Watson
Something for Christians to consider and think about in this election season …
Robert Borders
Theology can be evolving without having strong roots. The Holy Spirit can lead us into truth.
Varnel Watson
Unfortunately the trend today is abandoning faith roots without much Theology evolving – and more often even without any Theology at all
Varnel Watson
Posted many moons ago to discuss mainly folk who abandon holiness and baptism doctrine go reformed, calvinist or whatever new doctrine they were not brought up into. Same goes for abandoning ones religious roots for political reasons What is your opinion? Timothy Carter
Timothy Carter
I believe that this would need to be considered case by case. Everyone’s spiritual journey is unique. Obviously, there are Biblical principles/truths that must not be put aside such as Christ and Him crucified- raised on the third day. But, there are other things that Christian’s will always struggle to accept from different beliefs within the Christian faith.
We must remember that everyone grows spiritually at different rates.
When someone has abandoned the teaching of his/her childhood church, we can expect that he/she has done so with good reason. We may not ever know or understand the reasons but it is important to continue to love each other and support each other as we all seek the heart of Christ. Jesus said, “For he that is not against us is for us” (Mark 9:40 ERV).
The Apostle Paul explanations that God is working inside each of us to help us become what He wants. Each person is responsible for his/her self.
Philippians 2:12-13
My dear friends, you always obeyed what you were taught. Just as you obeyed when I was with you, it is even more important for you to obey now that I am not there. So you must continue to live in a way that gives meaning to your salvation. Do this with fear and respect for God. 13 Yes, it is God who is working in you. He helps you want to do what pleases him, and he gives you the power to do it.
It is very important for us to understand that as we make our plain for salvation that we do so with the Fear of the Lord. Our lives must be rooted in the Word. If not we will fool ourselves into a life of sin.
When a person rejects the teaching of their childhood sometimes, it is to help them grow closer to God. Other times, it is because they have rejected Christ.
If we see a fellow beliver who has abandoned the teaching of their childhood but are still seeking to follow Christ, we should rejoice.
Varnel Watson
Timothy Ira It would have been well to consider it case by case if it was not such a mass epidemics
Ricky Grimsley do not believe in pre-Trib rapture
Paul Hughes dont believe in entire sanctification
Walter Polasik and man other dont believe in initial evidence
so many others dont believe in eternal Sonship
the rest remaining dont believe in the Trinity
Brody Pope has reported many not believing in healing from God
I actually HAVE taken them case by case this past year and when does that it seems like dealing with a legion Have such abandoned their roots while rethinking their theology? Well, they came from us but we’re not of us
Ira Huth
I think Troy Day there might be and I said might be a hidden agenda and or reasoning why it is such a mass epidemic.
So to speak, if you know what I mean.
Varnel Watson
Ira I wholeheartedly agree but how do we fix it?
Ricky Grimsley
Lol pretrib a mass epidemic….it didnt even exist as an idea 150 years ago.
Ira Huth
Back to the simple basics the Trinity in the Word. Plan and simple Troy Day.
Varnel Watson
Wrong again Ricky Grimsley Virtually all Ancient Church Fathers Believed in Pre-Trib Rapture http://www.pentecostaltheology.com/the-ancient-church-fathers-believed-in-pre-trib-rapture/
Ricky Grimsley
Have you read that article. Name one church Father that said jesus will return before Antichrist
Varnel Watson
What does the Antichrist has to do with it? Do you mean the best?
Ricky Grimsley
Because 2Thessalonians kills pretrib by explaining the Antichrist comes before christ comes back
Varnel Watson
2Thessalonians has the word antichrist in the text or you put it there?
Walter Polasik
It doesn’t have the word “anti-Christ” but the individual it describes (as the Bible does in other language elsewhere) is definitely antichrist and early church fathers have recognized this as such. Only Reformed theologians take to allegorical views of what this might mean. But then, Reformed aren’t usually pre-Trib anyway and they perpetuate the lie that the Early Church didn’t teach the chiliasm. But this has been historically proven to be a false approach. It’s just that there is, even among the most conservative Reformed theologians, that Liberal, anti-literal interpretation streak.
Ricky Grimsley
Walter Polasik
Show me otherwise Ricky.
Ricky Grimsley
Cmon troy why the foolish talk. Everyone knows its the Antichrist in Thessalonians 2. If you dont think so, you should probably quit talking about eschatology
Walter Polasik
Troy is in a world of his own. I’ve already debated him on other issues.
Varnel Watson
Ricky Grimsley Ephraim the Syrian wrote:
For all the saints and elect of God are gathered, prior to the tribulation that is to come, and are taken to the Lord lest they see the confusion that is to overwhelm the world because of our sins.
Ricky Grimsley
Prewrath teaches that the rapture happens before the tribulation of matthew 24:21. What more do you want. I think if you understood the prewrath position you would believe it.
Varnel Watson
Walter Polasik As long as we all make it to heaven one day
Walter Polasik
Troy Day: Well, just think of this: in heaven we won’t need Facebook to fellowship and discuss theology and then I can be a patient teacher and harangue you all eternity long until you get it!?
Varnel Watson
given you make to heaven – some today believe the church will not go to heaven but just stay here Yet there we shall know all as it is
Joe Absher
Is it a new format? It doesn’t appear to be compatible with a phone. The print portion is half on the right. Can’t get a screenshot
Louise Cummings
My phone is what I use. I also don’t have the Theology book all of you study from. I love the study of theology. It’s a great study. But I don’t have the book.
Louise Cummings
I have an I pad. But I don’t use it much. But I could use it. I’ve down loaded the Book of Enoch on mine. I have a lot of it read. I also pulled up some o the verses in the book of Asher on it. I love it for things like that. But my face book is easier for me.
Varnel Watson
Joe Absher It’s a great discussion format. Hope you can read it on your phone
Joe Absher
Same thing. Format doesn’t allow any adjustments or movement
Varnel Watson
This is one of the olders posts in this group still going as OP discussion Few people that have now created independent Pentecostal groups said they do not believe in speaking in tongues and never have but claimed to be Pentecostal One even claimed he can turn tongues on and off while drinking strong wine Ricky Grimsley