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Did Adam & Eve have FREE WILL and how does this affect Calvinistic TOTAL DEPRAVITY?
The “second skin” provided by the Lord figuratively replaced their covering of mortal skin with the flesh of Jesus Christ, the “second Adam,”30 through whose power they would experience a “renewing of their bodies.”31 Indeed, the Hebrew term for “atonement” exactly fits this situation, meaning “to cover or recover, cover again, to repair a hole, cure a sickness, mend a rift, make good a torn or broken covering.”32 Though the leather garment given to Adam and handed down through the patriarchs was foremost a sign of repentance,33 it was also a sign of authority,34 and a symbol of “royal rebirth and rejuvenation.”35 It provided protection, afforded modesty, reminded Adam and Eve of their covenants, and served as an earnest of the glorious celestial robes that awaited them through their faithfulness. Here’s a good rabbinic resource to start the discussion Rick Wadholm Jr
http://templethemes.net/publications/Meridian/100304-The%20Nakedness%20and%20the%20Clothing%20of%20Adam%20and%20Eve.pdf
Charles Page [07/19/2015 9:28 PM]
The Trilogy, by D. Scott Reichard, …exalts God‘s sovereignty and His responsibility to save all due to His laws of liability and redemption. Is it really a question of ?free will versus sovereignty? From a legal standpoint, ?free will is a side bar; ownership is the issue. God, as Creator, owns all He has made
(Ge.1:1; Ez.18:4). Man has delegated authority, but God retains sovereignty! His liability laws are based on ownership. Exodus 21:33-34 says if a man digs a pit and does not cover it, and an ox falls in (of his own free will), the owner of the pit shall make it good and buy the animal. God‘s law makes the owner of the pit responsible; he must buy the ox (see also De.22:8 and Ex. 22:5-6). Well, consider this analogy: God created a beautiful garden as man‘s home. In the center of it, He dug a pit and chose not to fence it off; in fact, he shades it with two temptation trees and hires a sly tempter as the grounds keeper. And what happened? Man fell in the pit just as God knew he would from the foundation of the world (Ep. 1:4; Re. 13:8).
What do you think about this statement? I don’t buy into it, what are your thoughts?
David Rollings
Calvinsists believe that Adam and Eve had free will
Ricky Grimsley
Of course adam and eve had free-will. How about a harder one. Will the antichrist have free-will.
John Ruffle
Obviously.
Timothy K. Wiebe
Yes
Carl Murphy
You have free will but God knows what your choice will be
Joseph Branscome
Amen .
Joseph Branscome
If God hadn’t gave every man a free will of choice , then there would be no need for the plan of Salvation .
Varnel Watson
Peter Christian Per your post that “Free Will is a LIE” you have been challenged to respond under this post and defend your position.
Levi Chavis
I’ll accept that challenge as well, ?
Varnel Watson
go ahead Levi Did Adam & Eve have FREE WILL?
Levi Chavis
No, they did not.
Varnel Watson
Really? Do tell 🙂 Were they too created for destruction without any right to chose between right and wrong?
Levi Chavis
Why would you think that they had a choice in their fall.
Varnel Watson
So the questions game again? Is this all you got – Why would you think that they did not have a choice in their fall? Was it GOD’s will for them to eat from the tree?
Levi Chavis
Well, “if”, BIG “if”, Adam never fell, there wouldn’t have ever been a need for Christ because he wouldn’t have needed to become the perfect sacrifice to save his people.
After all, by one man sin entered into the world, and by one man sin was taken away.
Levi Chavis
So, I’ll ask you again, how do you think that they had a choice in their fall?
Varnel Watson
I Love your humpty dumpty theology – very entertaining
Levi Chavis
Troy Day, that’s not an answer
Varnel Watson
Are you claiming humpty dumpty was an egg?
Levi Chavis
Stick to scripture, stop diverting. ?
Varnel Watson
Genesis 2:16-17
Levi Chavis
Philippians 2:13
13 for it is God who works in you to will and to act in order to fulfill his good purpose.
Peter Christian
If they never fell there would be no Jesus and Troy would not be here in this group boasting about how much he loves his Jesus.
Varnel Watson
reference to that pls – like from the Bible if possible
Peter Christian
They think the Bible is all about themselves first and Jesus was a plan B. Smh.
Varnel Watson
another humpty dumpty theology here yall
Varnel Watson
Simple question to both of yall – Was it GOD’s will for them to eat from the tree? YES or NO ?
Levi Chavis
Yes.
Varnel Watson
So God commanded them against His will – you are too funny Pls write Genesis 2:16-17 1000 times before you go to bed
Levi Chavis
It was all for his good pleasure.
Varnel Watson
WRONG – Genesis 2:16-17 ►And the LORD God commanded the man, “You are free to eat from any tree in the garden; but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat from it you will certainly die.”
Levi Chavis
Thank you for posting this scripture, verse 17.
Did he say “for IF you eat it you will surely die”?
No, he said “for WHEN you eat from it you will certainly die.”
Thank you Troy. ?
Varnel Watson
The explicit command expresses Gods will – but you must not eat from the tree. What you wrote expresses the free human will God allowed to be exercised. I rest my case!
Levi Chavis
No Troy, he knew that they would eat from the tree, that’s why he put it in the garden.
Varnel Watson
Even Calvin believed that Adam (and Eve) have libertarian free will. Levi Chavis presents a ultra hyper calvinitor view 🙂
Levi Chavis
I’m not a Calvinist, so I don’t worry about what he believed. ?
I believe that we have everyday lives that we live out, but nothing we do will dictate if we are a child of God, or not.
That’s why Paul compares God and his children to an earthly father and the chastising of his children.
You reap what you sow, but it doesn’t affect the outcome of your salvation.
Varnel Watson
On so many occasions when disputing free will with a hyper Calvinist we arrive at their humpty dumpty theology. They claim humpty dumpty was a egg though no where in the story he is referred as one; and though 1877 term humpty dumpty refers simply to a clumsy person and not to an egg.
Humpty dumpty theologians cannot see pass the wall. They claim lack of free human will in the Bible though the Bible is very explicit about God allowing free human will by a free human choice from Genesis to Revelation.
Humpty dumpty theologians cannot imagine God giving a free will so they resort to the simplistic humpty dumpty theology – humpty dumpty was an egg – this is good enough for them.
Don’t be a humpty dumpty theologian. After all, God himself has given you a choice and free will not to be one…
Levi Chavis
Wow, that was really deep. I’d hate to know that all I had was “Humpty Dumpty”.
But, when you can’t provide scripture, all you have left is Humpty Dumpty theory.
Varnel Watson
Levi Chavis Peter Christian IF as you say Adam and Eve did not have free will HOW did original sin enter into human kind? Did GOD forced original sin in Adam and Eve contrary to their free will? You see how hyper Calvinistic theology turn ridiculous when dig into 🙂 Peter Christian has never stated IF Adam and Eve had free will. HE seems to be staying far from that question. Is it because Peter Christian believes Adam and Eve had free will? Is it because there is division in the hyper Calvinistic theology camp?
Ricky Grimsley
Surprised isnt the word I would use. God created Adam and eve to be his image and to reproduce his image all over the world. Thats what we are supposed to do. Certainly, God knew they could fall but to believe that he knew 100 percent for sure they would fall suggests that their fall was his intention all along. IMO.
Levi Chavis
Ricky the way you’re talking, it seems that you believe that God is not sovereign. God is correct 100% of the time, nothing surprises Him. God is not a man that He should lie, or make a mistake.
Ricky Grimsley
God is sovereign but in his sovereignty he has allowed for free-will. God makes choices he regrets. You have only two choices.
1. God created the world so there would be sin?
2. God created the world knowing sin was a possibility but wanted to love and be loved freely?
Levi Chavis
Well Ricky, if you believe that God regrets some of his choices, you don’t believe God is Perfect nor Sovereign.
-Romans 11:29
29 for God’s gifts and his call are irrevocable.
I’ll be praying for you Ricky.
Grover Katzmarek Sr
Levi Chavis I believe you need to dig I to the scripture. First God is sovereign and at the same time He told Noah He regretted He had man.
Secondly for those who believe that there is not free will must take a razor blade and cut certain scripture out if their bikes like for instance when Peter writing to the church saying God is not willing that any perish but that all come to repentance.
Levi Chavis
Do you honestly believe that the Almighty God made a mistake?
Grover Katzmarek Sr
It doesn’t matter what I believe or don’t believe. What does the scriptures says is the definitive answer.
Levi Chavis
Grover Katzmarek Sr, well do believe what the scriptures say?
Levi Chavis
I wholeheartedly believe what God’s Word says.
Genesis 6:5-8
5 And God saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.
6 And it repented the Lord that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.
7 And the Lord said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.
8 But Noah found grace in the eyes of the Lord.
Repentance in those verses simply means “saddened” and not “made a mistake”.
God is perfect, as His Word is perfect.
Levi Chavis
Grover, do you believe this?
-Galatians 6:7-8
7 Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows.
8 Whoever sows to please their flesh, from the flesh will reap destruction; whoever sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life.
Varnel Watson
Levi Were you saved by your own free will or the preacher forced you to accept Christ? I am yet to meet a person not saved by his/her God given free will and choice…
Levi Chavis
How did you know that you needed saving in the first place?
Alan Smith
Free will…
Roshell Spear
Yes they had free will!!
Eric Jones
If men did not have free will, God would not have had to instruct them or direct them as what they should do. God put certain limitations on Himself when He created mankind. God gives man a choice everytime He gives them direction.