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Are the Impeachment Hearings ‘Demonic’?
In a recent interview with Eric Metaxas, Rev. Franklin Graham stated that the constant attempts to undermine President Trump were “almost a demonic power,” concurring with Metaxas that it’s “a spiritual battle.” Is Rev. Graham right? Are the impeachment hearings the latest manifestation of this “demonic power”?
Mainstream Media Mocks Talk of “Demonic” Influence on Impeachment
As expected, the media has responded scornfully to this suggestion. A Washington Post headline asks, “Who but a demon could impeach God’s chosen one?”
The article, by Dana Milbank, rightly notes that “if politics is a spiritual battle between God and demons from hell, who cares what statistics from the Commerce Department say — or what any of the impeachment witnesses say?”
Milbank continues, “On Fox News on Sunday, Energy Secretary Rick Perry reported that he told Trump he was God’s choice: ‘I said, “Mr. President, I know there are people that say you said you were the chosen one and I said, “You were.”’”
This led to Milbank’s question, “Who but a demon could vote to impeach God’s chosen one?”
“They have now decided they must try to demonize his critics. Literally.” — Peter Wehner
Over at the Atlantic, the headline to the article by Peter Wehner asked, “Are Trump’s Critics Demonically Possessed? Two of the president’s prominent evangelical supporters are literally demonizing his opponents.”
As Wehner writes, “It isn’t enough for Franklin Graham and Eric Metaxas, two prominent figures within the American evangelical movement, to lavish praise on President Donald Trump. They have now decided they must try to demonize his critics.
“Literally.”
At New York Magazine, the headline reads, “Christian Right Leaders Suggest Trump Critics Are Possessed by Demons.”
In the article, Ed Kilgore writes forcefully:
In Evangelical-speak, ‘spiritual battle’ or ‘spiritual warfare’ means a test of power between God and Satan (or his demonic minions), with human souls and the fate of all Creation in the balance. Describing one’s opponents as on the wrong side of a ‘spiritual battle’ is simultaneously an expression of the most extreme hatred available to a Christian, and a rationalization for it on grounds that the object of demonic possession is not entirely responsible for becoming the devil’s workshop (it’s a variation on the old conservative Christian dodge of ‘hating the sin but not the sinner’ when it comes to, say, being gay).
And he adds that Graham and Metaxas “are suggesting that the moral and spiritual superiority — nay, necessity — of Trump and his party are so resplendently obvious that only a turn to the darkest side imaginable can explain it.”
What Does it Mean if We Say Trump is “God’s Man”?
To be sure, I understand these critiques and concerns. And I recognize how this all sounds to a watching, often hostile world. And I agree that it’s dangerous to label all opposition to Trump as demonic.
Is Trump really “God’s man,” so that all who oppose him are of the devil? Is the Republican Party the Party of God and the Democrat Party the Party of the Devil?
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Of course, some conservative Christians would respond by saying, “Just look at their platforms! That should answer your questions about who is of the Lord and who is of the devil.”
But, in fact, Rev. Graham and Eric Metaxas were not talking about opposition to the Republican Party but rather opposition to Donald Trump. There’s quite a difference between the two. It’s unlikely that if someone other than Donald Trump had been elected president, the opposition would be quite so fierce.
I Understand and Share Some Concerns
Had it been a strong conservative like Ted Cruz who won the election, I believe that the opposition from the left would still be intense. Just not as intense as the opposition to Trump.
Some of this is because he is a streetfighter, constantly on the attack and engaging in a no-holds barred strategy. That provokes more opposition.
Is it “demonic” to take issue with his policies?
And some of this has to do with his failings and shortcomings. He has been far from perfect as a leader, often playing fast and loose with the truth and sometimes reckless in his decision-making.
Is it “demonic” to criticize him fairly? Is it “demonic” to take issue with his policies? Is it “demonic” to be offended by some of his comments and actions?
So, again, I understand why the secular media takes issue with the Graham-Metaxas interview, and I share those concerns about demonizing all opposition to the president. It can make Christian supporters of Trump look bad and it can take voters’ eyes off of relevant issues and put the emphasis on the unseen realm.
What if Attempts to Remove the President are Based on Lies and Misinformation?
At the same time, I fully understand what Graham and Metaxas were saying. As Tucker Carlson noted, “The Democrats have been talking about impeachment since the very day that President Trump was inaugurated.” Trump must be ousted!
And, as I pointed out months ago, had Trump been a liberal politician, the left would be celebrating his success and his feistiness.
Some of the opposition to Trump has been demonic.
Not only so, but some of the opposition to Trump has been demonic.
For evidence of this, I point to the level of anti-Trump hatred in the Women’s Marches, the clawing of the doors of the Supreme Court during the Kavanaugh hearings, and the coalition of witches who regularly seek to hex the president. That sounds demonic to me. (See here for more.)
So, on the one hand, I believe that everyone needs to be guided by truth and righteousness, and when that means differing with Trump, we do so, with respect. That also means that we vote our conscience, rather than vote based on alleged demonic or divine activity.
At the same time, if the ongoing attempts to remove a duly elected president are based on lies or exaggerations or misinformation spread by a dishonest media and driven by partisan politics, then I would characterize those attempts as “demonic.”
What’s your take?
Varnel Watson
Nelson Banuchi Hugh Lowrie I kind of expected M Brown to ride this one Made attempts to invite him in the group to discuss it even BEFORE he wrote this in some anticipation of some kind
IMO such politically charged statements should NOT be made at all The idea they bring is NOT reversible and is an even MORE direct political attempt to swing the evangelical vote in 2020 Very effective – granted BUT Rev 2-3 has a direct word against such coming straight from JESUS to the angels of the church Also granted some if not most angels of churches in America today are fallen angels indeed
SO theologically in attempt for theology proper William DeArteaga Isara Mo Joe Absher We WELL KNOW that ANY political power in this world is demonically charged We know this from THE BIBLE and where satan will try to rule and take over this world in any way possible MAINLY through
politics
oppression / slavery – economiX
and through violence war and killing
WHY should the church take ANY side in political battles to me remains in the realm of the unknown
WHY should a religious leader demonize parties and processes in attempt to influence voters instead of PRAY and CAST demons out of the land is another personal wonder of mine Especially a religious leader who is NOT known for demon deliverance ministry as some are BUT is known for politically charged statements
MEANING – the talk is there but no walk is there So is to say such church leader(s) has/have lost the power to act and are filling it with the power or words i.e. powerLESS #noughsaid
http://www.pentecostaltheology.com/how-to-interpret-dr-browns-politicostalim/
John-Mark Neal Hales
Democrats should be demonized because their policies are designed to oppose God and His Word.
Varnel Watson
Granted and agreed BUT by the same statement SO should be Republicans who sin against GOD under demonic influence
John-Mark Neal Hales
Republicans aren’t holy folks, no doubt, but it’s not the same as Democrats. Their policies mirror the Bible better on
Abortion
Sexuality
Israel
Socialism
Varnel Watson
John-Mark Neal Hales I strongly doubt you know enough about socialism to argue this point We could hear you on it of course but just expressing my doubt
You bring a very good discussion to a position of morals and morality – abortion sexuality are very very demonic related issues No one can argue against that GOD hates both sins
SO how do we determine the morals of a politician of any party who hires prostitutes? IN THE BIBLE a practice well forbidden and more often associated with temple worship of false gods – is such practitioner of this practice a valid candidate qualified to make BIBLICAL judgment on moral issues for the well being of our nation?
Tim Anderson
We are admonished to intercede on behalf of our Leaders, therefore doesn’t it follow that we can discern the wickedness or fruitful actions of opposing Parties and expect our prayers to be heard and support the Party which best leads to the goals of our prayers?
See 1 Tim. 2:1-4.
John-Mark Neal Hales
Doubt all you want Troy, socialism is contrary to Scripture, destructive, and against God. The closest Biblical precedent is leaving some sheaves behind for orphans and widows—a far cry from socialism.
Who and when did someone hire prostitutes? The issue with presidential voting is comparisons, comparisons of candidates’ morality and policies. Hillary is not a more moral person than trump, but Trump’s policies are more moral than Hillary’s. And it’s on that basis, the decision is clear.
Varnel Watson
John-Mark Neal Hales Hillary is not a candidate She does not have any current policies that could be compared in this picture My question was about republicans who hire for sex while claiming to be moral agents Should they not be demonized in the same manner as dems ?
John-Mark Neal Hales
Hillary was the other choice in the 2016 election. That’s why she’s relevant when deciding if one should have voted for Trump.
Who and when did someone hire prostitutes?
Varnel Watson
John-Mark Neal Hales many reps of GOP
John-Mark Neal Hales
Name them and give dates or it will look like you don’t know what you’re talking about.
Varnel Watson
John-Mark Neal Hales Everyone knows what I am talking about John You including Come down to earth will ya?
John-Mark Neal Hales
Sounds like you’re making stuff up or believing nonsense. I’m done on this thread unless you’re able to support your claims with facts.
Varnel Watson
John-Mark Neal Hales George Q. Cannon (R) Utah Territorial Delegate, was refused his seat in the Congress due to his arrest for Unlawful Cohabitation (polygamy). He served nearly six months in penitentiary. (1888)[29][30]
Arthur Brown (U.S. senator) (R-UT) US Senator, and founder of the Utah State Republican Party, was shot dead by his longtime mistress, Anne Maddison Bradley for having a second mistress. Bradley, who had two children by Brown, was tried, but acquitted on a defense of temporary insanity. (1906)[31][32][33]
Warren Harding President (R), reportedly had affairs with Carrie Phillips and Nan Britton during the 1910s and early 1920s prior to his death in 1923. Britton claimed in a best-selling 1927 book, The President’s Daughter, that her daughter had been fathered by Harding while he was a U.S. senator. Her assertion was finally established as factual in August 2015, when genetic tests confirmed Harding as the father of Elizabeth.[35]
Styles Bridges (R-NH) US Senator, during the Lavender Scare of the 1950s, threatened to expose the son of US Senator Lester Hunt (D-WY) as a homosexual unless Hunt resigned from the senate, thus giving Republicans the majority. Hunt refused, but did not seek re-election and then shot himself (1954).[37][38]
Donald “Buz” Lukens Representative (R-OH) Convicted of Contributing to the Delinquency of a Minor for having sex with a 16 yr old girl. He was sentenced to 30 days in jail and fined $500. (1989)[58]
Robert Bauman, Representative (R-MD), was charged with attempting to solicit sex from a 16-year-old male prostitute.[59] Upon completing an alcoholism rehabilitation program, the charges were dropped. Bauman apologized to voters for his indiscretions but was defeated for re-election.[59] (1980)
Jon Hinson, Representative (R-MS), resigned after being charged with attempted sodomy for performing oral sex on a male employee of the Library of Congress.[60] (1981)
Thomas Evans, Representative (R-DE), went golfing in Florida with nude model and lobbyist Paula Parkinson, who later suggested her lobbying techniques had been “unusually tactile”.[61] Though Evans apologized for any appearance of impropriety, he was voted out of office in 1982. Future Vice-President Dan Quayle and Congressman Tom Railsback went on the golf trip too but were not implicated in the sex.[62] Marilyn Quayle said it was common knowledge that her husband would “rather play golf than have sex any day.”[63] (1981)
John Schmitz, Representative (R-CA), leader of the ultra-conservative John Birch Society,[64] admitted to having a second family, but refused to accept or support the two children he produced who became wards of the state. (1982)[65]
Dan Crane, Representative, (R-IL), was censured July 20, 1983, in the Congressional Page sex scandal for having sex with a 17-year-old congressional page. (1983)[66]
Ernie Konnyu, Representative (R-CA), Konnyu was accused of sexual harassment. He had asked a female aide to move a name tag she was wearing because it was drawing attention to her breasts, about which he later said: “She is not exactly heavily stacked, OK?” In another instance, he reportedly touched the knee of lobbyist Polly Minor during lunch, which caused a scene. GOP leaders were unhappy with Konnyu’s temperament anyway, so they found Stanford professor Tom Campbell who ousted Konnyu the following June.[69][70] (1987)
Arlan Stangeland (R-MN) U.S. House of Representatives (1977 – 1991). He lost his campaign for re-election in 1990, largely because of a scandal, having made several hundred long-distance phone calls on his House credit card to a female lobbyist from Virginia. He admitted that he had made the calls, but denied having a romantic relationship with the woman. After his loss he subsequently retired from politics.(1990)[74][75]
Robert Packwood, Senator (R-OR), resigned his office after 29 women came forward with claims of sexual harassment, abuse, and assaults. His denials of any wrongdoing were eventually contradicted by his own diaries boasting of his sexual conquests. (1995)[81]
Ken Calvert, Representative (R-CA), was involved with a prostitute, but claimed that no money was involved, and he was not arrested.[82] Calvert apologized: “My conduct that evening was inappropriate…. it violated the values of the person I strive to be.”[82] (1993)
Helen Chenoweth-Hage, Representative (R-ID), called for the resignation of Bill Clinton, and then admitted in 1998 to having had a six-year affair with a married rancher before she entered government.[83] Chenoweth said: “Fourteen years ago, when I was a private citizen and a single woman, I was involved in a relationship that I came to regret, that I’m not proud of….I only wish I could have learned the lessons sooner.”[84] (1998)
Bob Barr, Representative (R-GA), had an affair while married to his second wife. Barr was the first lawmaker in either chamber to call for Clinton’s resignation due to the Lewinsky scandal. Barr lost a primary challenge less than three years after the impeachment proceedings. (1999)[85]
Varnel Watson
John-Mark Neal Hales Dan Burton, Representative (R-IN): In 1995 speaking of the then-recent affairs of Republican Robert Packwood and the unfolding affair of Democrat Bill Clinton Burton stated “No one, regardless of what party they serve, no one, regardless of what branch of government they serve, should be allowed to get away with these alleged sexual improprieties….” In 1998 Vanity Fair printed an article detailing an affair which Burton himself had in 1983 which produced a child. Before publication Burton admitted to fathering a son with a former state employee.[86][87]
Robert Livingston, Representative (R-LA), called for the resignation of Bill Clinton and when his own extramarital affairs were leaked, his wife urged him to resign and urge Clinton to do likewise. (1998)[88][89]
Newt Gingrich, Representative (R-GA) and leader of the Republican Revolution of 1994,[90] resigned from the House after admitting in 1998 to having had an affair with a staffer while he was married to his second wife, and at the same time he was leading the impeachment of Bill Clinton for perjury regarding an affair with his intern Monica Lewinsky. (1998)[91][92]
Henry Hyde, Representative (R-IL): in 1998, Salon.com stated that from 1965 to 1969 (before Hyde won federal office), he conducted an extramarital sexual affair with a married woman who had three children from her marriage. Hyde, who was 41 years old and married when the affair occurred, admitted to the affair in 1998, describing the relationship as a “youthful indiscretion”.The revelation of this affair took place as Hyde was spearheading the impeachment hearings of President Bill Clinton over the Monica Lewinsky scandal.[93]
Pete Domenici Senator (R-NM) voted for the impeachment of President Bill Clinton in 1998 after his affair with Monica Lewinsky. In 2013 he confessed that in 1978 he fathered a son, Adam Laxalt, outside of his marriage; Adam Laxalt’s mother is Michelle Laxalt, the daughter of Senator Paul Laxalt and a prominent Republican lobbyist.[94][95]
Ed Schrock, Representative (R-VA), announced he would abort his 2004 attempt for a third term in Congress after allegedly being caught on tape soliciting sex with men after having aggressively opposed various gay-rights issues in Congress, such as same-sex marriage and gays in the military.[104]
Steven C. LaTourette, Representative (R-OH), was elected in 1994 and had voted to impeach Bill Clinton for the Lewinsky scandal. He himself had a long-term affair with his chief of staff, Jennifer Laptook, while he was married. He married Laptook after his divorce. (2003)[106]
David Dreier, Representative (R-CA), voted against a number of gay rights proposals, but was outed concerning his relationship with his chief of staff. (2004)[107][108] He is featured in the 2009 documentary film Outrage.[109]
Don Sherwood, Representative (R-PA), failed to win re-election following revelations of a five-year extramarital affair with Cynthia Ore, who accused him of physically abusing her. (2004)[110]
Mark Foley, Representative (R-FL), resigned his House seat when accused of sending sexually explicit e-mails to teenage male congressional pages. He was replaced by Tim Mahoney. (2006)[111]
Jim Gibbons (R-NV) US House of Representatives from the 2nd District was campaigning for Governor when he walked waitress Chrissy Mazzeo to her car. She claimed he threw her against a wall and threatened to sexually assault her. He claimed she tripped and he caught her. The civil lawsuit was settled by the payment of $50,000 to Mazzeo. Six weeks later he was elected governor.[112][113][114]
David Vitter, Senator (R-LA), took over the House seat of former Congressman Robert Livingston, who resigned in 1999 following revelations of an extramarital affair. At the time, Vitter stated, “I think Livingston’s stepping down makes a very powerful argument that (Bill) Clinton should resign as well….”[115] Vitter’s name was then discovered in the address book of Deborah Jeane Palfrey (the “D.C. Madam”). (2007)[116]
Randall L. Tobias (R), Deputy Secretary of State and former “AIDS Czar” appointed by George W. Bush, stated that U.S. funds should be denied to countries that permitted prostitution.[117] He resigned on April 27, 2007, after confirming that he had been a customer of Deborah Jeane Palfrey (the “D.C. Madam”).[118]
Larry Craig (R-ID), a U.S. Senator for 18 years, was arrested on June 11, 2007 and charged with lewd conduct arising from his behavior in a men’s restroom at the Minneapolis–Saint Paul International Airport.[119][120][121] Craig pleaded guilty to the lesser charge of disorderly conduct; he later unsuccessfully sought to withdraw his guilty plea.[122][123][124] He announced his resignation three months later on September 1, 2007, but changed his mind again, although he did not seek re-election in 2008. (2007)[125][126][127][128][129][130][131]
Varnel Watson
John-Mark Neal Hales John Ensign, Senator (R-NV), resigned his position as chairman of the Senate Republican Policy Committee on June 16, 2009, after admitting he had an affair with the wife of a close friend, both of whom were working on his campaign.[135] Under investigation, he then resigned his Senate seat 20 months early in 2011.[136] In 1998, Senator Ensign had called for President Bill Clinton (D) to resign after admitting to sexual acts with Monica Lewinsky. (2009)[137]
Chip Pickering, Representative (R-MS): on July 16, 2009, it was announced that his wife had filed an alienation of affection lawsuit against a woman with whom Chip allegedly had an affair.[138] The lawsuit claimed the adulterous relationship ruined the Pickerings’ marriage and his political career. (2009)[139]
Mark Souder, Representative (R-IN), a staunch advocate of abstinence and family values,[142][143] resigned to avoid an ethics investigation into his admitted extramarital affair with a female staffer. (2010)[144][145][146]
Chris Lee, Representative (R-NY), resigned hours after a news report that he had sent a shirtless picture of himself flexing his muscles to a woman via Craigslist, along with flirtatious e-mails.[147] He did not rely on a pseudonym or a false e-mail address but used his official Congressional e-mail for all communication. Lee said: “I regret the harm that my actions have caused my family, my staff and my constituents…. I have made profound mistakes and I promise to work as hard as I can to seek their forgiveness.”[148] (2011)
Scott DesJarlais, Representative (R-TN), admitted under oath to at least six affairs, including two affairs with his patients and staffers while he was a physician at Grandview Medical Center in Jasper, TN. Additionally, while running on a pro-life platform, DesJarlais made his ex-wife have two abortions, and tried to persuade a mistress who was his patient, into an abortion as well.[153][154][155]
Vance McAllister, Representative (R-LA), who is married and the father of five, was caught on surveillance camera deeply kissing a married staffer. Several prominent Republicans asked McAllister to resign. In response, he stated he would not seek re-election in 2016.[158] McCallister said: “There’s no doubt I’ve fallen short and I’m asking for forgiveness. I’m asking for forgiveness from God, my wife, my kids, my staff, and my constituents who elected me to serve”. (2014)[159]
Blake Farenthold, US Representative (R-TX) was reported to have paid $84,000 of taxpayer money, via the House of Representatives Office of Compliance, to settle a sexual harassment complaint from a former staffer. Farenthold’s former communications director Lauren Greene sued the congressman in December 2014,[160] and a settlement was reached in 2015. The identity of Farenthold with respect to taxpayer involvement was made public in 2017. This was the first documented case of taxpayer funds being used to settle sexual harassment complaints against a member of Congress. (2014)[161]
Dennis Hastert, former Speaker of the United States House of Representatives (R-IL), pled guilty to structuring bank withdrawals in order to conceal deliberately-unspecified misconduct by Hastert against an unnamed individual years earlier.[162] At a sentencing hearing in October 2015, Hastert admitted that he had sexually abused boys while he worked as a high school wrestling coach decades earlier. (2015)[163][164]
Donald Trump (R), the 45th President of the United States, was accused of sexual assault by 13 women during the 2016 election and he denied the allegations.[165] The allegations arose after The Washington Post released a 2005 video of Trump, recorded on a hot microphone by Access Hollywood, in which he bragged about sexually assaulting women.[166][167][168] Trump himself renewed the controversy a year later by alleging that the video was fake,[169] to which Access Hollywood replied, “Let us make this perfectly clear — the tape is very real. Remember his excuse at the time was ‘locker-room talk.’ He said every one of those words.”[170][171] The first reports of an alleged 2006 affair between Donald Trump and adult film star Stormy Daniels were published in October 2011 by the blog The Dirty and the magazine Life & Style.[172][173]
Tim Murphy, Representative (R-PA), had an extramarital affair with Shannon Edwards, a 32-year-old forensic psychologist. The pro-life Murphy asked Edwards to have an abortion after she became pregnant. The information was revealed as part of Murphy’s divorce proceedings and published by the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette after it fought in Pennsylvania state court to have the documents unsealed. Murphy resigned his seat in Congress.
Joe Barton (R-TX) US Representative, acknowledged he took and emailed nude photos of himself in 2015, following their leak in November 2017.[175][176][177] He decided not to seek re-election in 2018.[178]
Trent Franks (R-AZ) US Representative, was investigated by the House Ethics Commission about allegations of improper conduct. Before the study concluded, Franks abruptly resigned. (2017)[181][182][183]
Varnel Watson
John-Mark Neal Hales to name just A FEW Should we as Christians consider all of the above demonic? Nelson Banuchi https://www.cnn.com/2019/11/25/politics/rick-perry-donald-trump-god/index.html?fbclid=IwAR1Hp3sKqMQd-W2wKhAVlreh6Bjnm4sI_LB9w78iUqId8gvjEyssOQGWSoA
John-Mark Neal Hales
Wow, where did you find all of these old examples? And where’s the list for Democrats. I bet you wouldn’t have to pull up examples from 1888 for them, ha!
I’m not sure why you’re using the word demonic, but everyone should be held accountable for their actions. King David was.
The point is Republicans are not great, but they’re so much better than Democrats. These are the choices we have as voters.
I’m looking forward to instead being ruled by our coming King.
Varnel Watson
John-Mark Neal Hales the examples are from 1888 till 2018 and I dont see you producing better OR any adequate comments; the word demonic was used by Grahame in a recent interview HENCE the topic of our discussion and M Brown’s post PLEASE read the article to make yourself somewhat familiar with OP before returning with more empty comments to this important discussion
Varnel Watson
Tim Anderson John-Mark Neal Hales so back to the article where do you agree or disagree with Graham and M Brown?
Nelson Banuchi
Troy Day in answer to all your questions: one can then say Trump is demonic!
Tim Anderson
Troy Day Alot in the article I agree with.
1- No It is not demonic to disagree with his policies
2- No – it is not demonic to disagree in Politics.
Some policies by a party may be demonically motivated. Jesus told some folk that they were of their Father the devil. I think we still have folk like that and when they lie or otherwise walk in the flesh they may be lead by demons or their fleshly side.
Danny S Zamora
Jill West
Varnel Watson
Nelson Banuchi SINCE you are free all day today and all PLS note how many ppl will play avoidance / escapism and say post is 404 or else; how many will say oh we didnt vote for pastor and how many will play just plain ol dumb to the actual truth here NOT to mention M Brown who as usual drops the bomb to run-n-hide
Joe Absher
…vanity masked as intellectual prowess
Louise Cummings
Well I think Adam Shift thinks he’s the king. But we have just one King Of Kings. So I think someone should shut his mouth. I shouldn’t use his his name , with a host fighting for the same job. So all see who can be the worst.
Louise Cummings
I don’t know if Trump let’s the devil use him. Or not. But I don’t know one demon that fights to get the Bible back in school or ball games and freedom to worship.
Joe Absher
children chasing one bouncing ball after another .
…you seem to have forgotten every american has a vote . one vote . no more no less . americans used to honor that . a grandma . a sailor . a soldier . a school teacher . a bus driver. a engineer or a bricklayer . one vote no more no less . every american man and every american woman can vote their best understanding and conscience . if you can’t respect that you have a problem .
not the ones you call scared or ignorant . which are in fact to busy doing life to care for your so called theology.
Varnel Watson
not sure about your comments Joe Absher but its deeply disturbing Americans love their vote more then their voice pf prayer before GOD to change the nation
Joe Absher
You needn’t tag me on all your grandstanding
Varnel Watson
why? is this one not fake piety one?
Joe Absher
Further I don’t think you’re disturbed at all . when you mock and insult and chide you’ve lost any real claim for piety or the souls of men . have a happy and safe Thanksgiving
Varnel Watson
Tim Anderson how can one agree or disagree or disagree not to agree? The article is a mix of titles from here and there that proves NO point at all Then at the end its this way then that way then no way is the yes way I got lost about where it started his talk after all the article titles If you really got it pls tell me WHAT was the point? Except to place a current post on his blog roll at ANY price – even with the price of saying nothing much to what everyone already knew #tagged Joe Absher
Tim Anderson
Troy Day agree with you about the article going in so many directions. So many rabbit trails my old beagle would have a breakdown.
Varnel Watson
Tim Anderson IF this was the FIRST time M Brown has done it I would say OK BUT as I told Nelson Banuchi every time the wind blows Brown flips on Trump – to sell his book, to popularize his blog etc etc etc Well the time to take stand is NOW or his book on not afraid from the antiChrist may turn to taking on the mark of the beast via the little horn
Tim Anderson
Troy Day l haven’t read much of Bro. Brown’s work but I do appreciate his willingness to stand the ground on the “Wild Fire” controversy several years back. Besides this I adhete to the admonition of Pauls to not judge another man’s servant and getting entangled in certain type of arguments – sorta like this one.
Nelson Banuchi
Troy DayDr. Brown goes in a circle with this article and basically suggests that the impeachment is demonic. The thing that cracks me up is that, apparently, from what I gather in his last paragraph, he assumes, while all the evidence points contrary, that all the testimony in the impeachment inquiry is demonic. Dr. Brown seems to believe that anything said against Trump is “based on lies or exaggerations or misinformation.”
He would deny it, of course.
He disappoints me.
Varnel Watson
Nelson Banuchi guess I never got to that last part All I gathered was the comments on Grahams statement which could be interpreted either way bipartisan for demons in politics
Varnel Watson
SO what is the bottom line here Tim Anderson Nelson Banuchi I am interested in comments on the demon comments not really politics We have 2 leading evangelists – I dont consider neither of them true theologians per se BUT they do have a say in media swing of the evangelical vote Graham with southern baptists Brown a bit pushing too hard and reaching BUT still out there since the FL revivals
NONE of them has a known or noted deliverance ministry I dont know about Brown having a demonology book Graham less more so
SO what gives foundation for demon/demonisation characteristics Is either qualified Biblically to make such with authority AND more so what is the exit strategy from this mess they suggest? I have seen NONE so far …
Nelson Banuchi
I’m not an expert or have experienced spiritual warfare with demons or the demonic but here is what I wrote on another FB page commenting in the Graham’s comments:
Graham, by such comments, doesn’t help unite the country but further divides it. He may be forgetting , if we want to accept the Christian view ” that the whole world lies in the power of the evil one” (1 John 5:19*), then all governments are essentially under the rule of Satan, despite the Biblical affirmation that all governments are “established by God” (Romans 13:1), The republic democracy of the United States of America is also included as a government under “the ruler of this world.”
If this is true, the call to resist the Devil is the underlying concept of protest, through prayer, witness of Christ, peaceful, political activism, and passive civil disobedience against the government whenever it emulates ungodly principles, whether that is abortion or abusive immigration policies (which this administration, having really done nothing for the former and nothing for the latter), or a man who demonstrates to be corrupt and self-serving.
As such, on the one hand, Trump, from a political viewpoint, having conducted an impeachable violation of the Constitution, ought to be impeached. Such cannot be construed as demonic opposition against Trump but, on the contrary, a healthy Christian and patriotic act of both opposition; this is healthy patriotic act of opposition to preserve the U.S. Constitution, our freedom, and values as a nation.
However, on the other hand, from a Christian spiritual and moral viewpoint, Trump and his administration continue to deal in habitual lies and delusions. Such can be construed as, at least, a surrender to demonic influences and, therefore, opposition against Trump and his administration on this ground would be a healthy Christian act of opposition to demonic forces in order to preserve a godly influence upon our nation.
*On Satan and demonic powers as rulers of this present age, especially via deception, see John 12:31; 14:30; 16:11; 2 Corinthians 4:4; Ephesians 2:2; Revelation 12:9.
Varnel Watson
Nelson Banuchi well wish more evangelicals take a stand here BUT seems like the church has lost interest some in the whole Trump thing after 4 yrs of having it
Varnel Watson
VIA Ray E Horton
IT’S SPIRITUAL WARFARE. – THEY ARE REALLY TRYING TO IMPEACH GOD FROM AMERICA
Jimmy Mitchell heard from the Lord: “Here is what I heard from God. God said: They’re not trying to impeach President Trump, they’re trying to impeach ME. Not going to happen Hahaha Psalms 2:4 Hahaha (That’s the way I heard it).”
In that President Trump, in spite of his past, is standing up for godly values, they are attacking him, while their real argument is with those values.
William DeArteaga Joe Absher Isara Mo we know demons run politics and have been since the world started BUT should this be considered a theology proper topic? Should we include politics in sermons AS charisma the mag suggested this week? Should we occupy the political mountain hill as NAR and Wagner proposed 20 yrs ago? Should the GOSPEL be political in the terms of S.America’s social gospel – I find ALL these questions relative to the Christmas story somehow but are they truly a theological matter or just a sidekick of our Pentecostal social concern? James P Bowers Hugh Lowrie
Hugh Lowrie
We do know that impeachment started on election day and the past 3 years have been in search of a crime that could be used in the impeachment charges. So why does “the resistance” hate President Trump so much? Yes, Trump is standing for godly values but unlike past candidates & Presidents that also said they stood for godly values, Trump is willing to dismantle the establishment and stand his ground. There is no question that there is a spiritual battle being waged but I’m not sure that you will win the hearts and minds of those that hate Christ by putting it in that context.
Varnel Watson
Hugh Lowrie IDK Isara Mo isnt this a bit drastic
Isara Mo
Troy Day
Not a BIT drastic at all since it is a figment of our own imagination.
The purpose of any war is to ensure that the enemy bows down to your will.. surrenders to you and we call it victory.
I beg to differ with Hugh and Jimmy Mitchel and Perry and the rest of ministers who think that there is a SPRITUAL WARFARE in the ongoing impeachment proceedings.
I honestly don’t think there is ANY such thing.
Who are the enemies in this warfare? Democrats VS Republicans?
The Senate VS Trump?
Who is fighting against WHOM?.
The Bible clearly shows what kind of warfare a BELIEVER fights.. it is against UNSEEN Satanic hierarchies. Or is a political battle a representation of an unseen war?
How do these Satanic hierarchies aligned with the current political drama in America?
Who is struggling against who..
Varnel Watson
Isara Mo demons in politics are not phlegmatic
Isara Mo
Troy Day
Not only in politics but in all areas of life.
The only cool demon with a calm demeanor is Jezebel.. who is never anfazed by uproar..
Isara Mo
As a man thinketh so he is.
Our thoughts are US not our bones or flesh or tux we put on.
The content of Adam’s thoughts before the fall were purely Godly so EVERYTHING ADAM HEARD thought was godly and if Adam said HE HEARD FROM GOD we would have no way to disagree.
Every since that conversation at the gardern between Satan and Eve, man’s THOUGHTS is always a mumbo jambo of his thoughts, the devil’s and to a very few Godly.. especially those whose inner ears are most of the times tuned inwards and not outside to the political voices poured out by the media every second.
I don’t who Jimmy Mitchel but his claim that from the Lord is in my opinion HIS THOUGHTS.. not God’s words.
Hearing from God is “no small matter” and I believe God has no party affiliation such that HIS THOUGHTS would reflect Republican or Democratic favor.
God runs the affairs of all men. He is Sovereign. He is King over all kings and He is no blood relation to Donald Trump such that He would defend him in his “errors” but even if He was a blood relation God NEVER CONDONES evil and his word say a man will eat the fruit of his lips..
Should the righteous take sides in a political intrigue whose truths have not been conclusively drawn?
Let the justice take its course and if the President is exonerated it is not because God “protected him” but because the allegations weren’t true: but even if the President is found guilty still the argument stands: it is not because God is on the side of his accusers.
God hardened Pharaoh’s heart to attain his own will then destroyed Him. He kicked out Nebuchadnezzar from the State House and let him eat grass for seven years then re sat him on throne.
He took king Manasse by the nose into Babylon captivity and Manasse acknowledged him as King he restored him.
Let us not be carried too far in our vain imaginations and think that the political crisis in America is a Godly or demonic state of affairs..
Some have dubbed it SPRITUAL WARFARE..
If Troy and Joe Absher are invited to do a deliverance on the involved parties we might get some INSIGHTS as to whether the situation is worth calling it WARFARE
.
Varnel Watson
God NEVER CONDONES evil
Doyle Rogers
Them that believe in abortion are murderers at heart. Their whole understanding and actions are effected by it . JESUS SAID ..
Mat_12:34 O generation of vipers, how can ye, being evil, speak good things? (NOTE) for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh. ……………………………………………They have ? trouble.
Varnel Watson
Doyle Rogers STILL God NEVER CONDONES evil Neil Steven Lawrence Nelson Banuchi Melvin Harter
Neil Steven Lawrence
Troy Day but he does use sin punish sin… e.g.: the downward spiral in Romans 1:18f
Varnel Watson
Neil Steven Lawrence IDK what do you think? Is Trump going to reverse the whole gay marriage thing for good?
Joe Absher
Mark 15:26 KJV — And the superscription of his accusation was written over, THE KING OF THE JEWS.
Isara Mo
Joe Absher
Politics of the CROSS OF JESUS CHRIST..
Well said.
Varnel Watson
Isara Mo oh boy THIS one is a DEEP one
Joe Absher
https://youtu.be/to-fH9lGdlA
Varnel Watson
is this BOB Larson? William DeArteaga
Varnel Watson
IDK Nelson Banuchi it seems it is getting there
Nelson Banuchi
Since all governments are ruled by the “prince of the air” then all governments, including the U.S. government, to one degree or another, are “demonic.”
Don’t believe America will be spared judgment…
Varnel Watson
Nelson Banuchi ever since presidents swore on Masonic Bibles at the Capitol
Varnel Watson
IDK Hugh Lowrie Jon Sellers William DeArteaga https://americanvision.org/21773/im-waiting-for-christianity-today-to-evaluate-the-democrats-by-the-ten-commandments/?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social_warfare&utm_campaign=socialwarfare&fbclid=IwAR2PReAqKN7XKW7MlLyU6TT5L_hulr4-TH7Ciuuy0zT-d9yYkT-5Py4DBjs
Jon Sellers
Troy Day Good article.
Varnel Watson
Jon Sellers they are all good – dont miss them
Hugh Lowrie
There is something there driving the hatred of President Trump. Some brush it off as merely deep fear of President Trump because the President isn’t part of the establishment and therefore is out to drain the swamp. We’ve said before much of the hatred of President Trump relates to his determination to dismantle systemic injustice against black Americans and to pull Black America out of poverty, because the result of those actions will destroy black loyalty to the Democrat Party. But you ask a fair question, is the real root of the resistance movement demonic?
Varnel Watson
Not sure how your comment fits the mission of God for 21 century America? GOD is in complete control. He gives office and takes office away – same goes with elections in democracy. We either believe GOD is completely sovereign and in complete control or we blame it on the bipartisan model GOD allows it all for a reason
Varnel Watson
About half of Americans say the Senate should vote to convict President Donald Trump and remove him from office in the upcoming impeachment trial (51%), according to a new CNN poll conducted by SSRS, while 45% say the Senate should vote against conviction and removal.
Nearly seven in 10 (69%) say that upcoming trial should feature testimony from new witnesses who did not testify in the House impeachment inquiry. And as Democrats in the Senate seek to persuade at least four Republican senators to join them on votes over allowing witnesses in the trial, the Republican rank and file are divided on the question: 48% say they want new witnesses, while 44% say they do not.
The poll is the first major national telephone poll since the articles of impeachment were sent to the Senate, formally launching Trump’s trial there. They are also the first such poll results since Soviet-born businessman Lev Parnas, an associate of Trump’s attorney Rudy Giuliani, publicly implicated the President in the Ukrainian pressure campaign during a series of television interviews. http://www.pentecostaltheology.com/trump-is-the-president-with-lowest-approval-rating-in-70-years/
Varnel Watson
As President Donald Trump’s impeachment trial kicks off in earnest, Senate Republicans are still wrestling with how to follow the precedent set by Bill Clinton’s impeachment trial while also giving Trump the swift acquittal he desires.
Senate GOP leaders are weighing accelerating the pace of the trial, eyeing a schedule that would maintain the same overall number of hours for opening arguments and senatorial questions as employed in Clinton’s case, but spreading it out over fewer days, according to six people familiar with internal deliberations. http://www.pentecostaltheology.com/frank-amedia-prophesy-february-and-march-trump-chaos/
Jerome Herrick Weymouth
Anyone who thinks that CNN is a good source for unbias news reporting has been sitting in a closed garage with the motor running for too many hours
James Michael Sanders
Jerome Herrick Weymouth I would have to agree, you will not find fair and balanced news from CNN. Just commentary from a specific party against a specific party. When they do have a guest on from the opposite party it’s just to debate and insult them unfairly.
I would love it if News was of old, just report what happened and leave out the opinions.
If you must add the opinion at least dont lie about it and call it facts.
Varnel Watson
all right easy now – foxnews said the same thing?>
Nelson Banuchi
Same thing can be said for FOX news, Jerome Herrick Weymouth, James Michael Sanders.
The thing to do is get news from various media outlets, not just one or two.
Jerome Herrick Weymouth
Troy Day one thing about Fox News you get both views and then you decide…that’s why I listen to them. And I like CBN too!
Jerome Herrick Weymouth
And when I glance at an article and all it does is quote CNN, I don’t bother with it…it is a complete turn off!.
Varnel Watson
Jerome Herrick Weymouth would you pls post me the Fox article that shows both sides of this particular issue
Varnel Watson
all right easy now – foxnews said the same thing
Varnel Watson
Jerome Herrick Weymouth I have asked Ray E Horton and it goes for your as well GIVE this group a list of POTUS positive things done toward Christianity the Church persecuted believers NOT just voting evangelicals Nelson Banuchi would love to have it
Nelson Banuchi
In answer to the question on the OP, no.
Isara Mo
Hey preachers and teachers go back to the pulpit the sheep are starving.
Impeachment nor impeachment the gospel must be preached..
Varnel Watson
http://www.pentecostaltheology.com/god-to-use-trump-for-greatest-revival-in-history/