| Scotty Searan |
BobWizenhut what a great post. Let’s see who it smokes out |
| Hugh Lowrie |
You’ll notice that those asking why 81% of white Evangelicals would vote for and continue to support President Trump never offer a Biblical basis for not supporting President Trump.You’ll never see them digging into the Bible for passages that support open borders, passages supporting keeping Black America in economic bondage, passages that support infanticide or gay sex. Instead, they argue that President Trump has the same flawed character as those that hate him. So in effect their argument is that President Trump resembles Samson, David and other Biblical heroes that had character flaws that therefore Christian voters should stay home and not vote for either the candidate that God raised up or the evil that President Trump is fighting against.But this logic just doesn’t have a Biblical basis that I’ve been able to find. |
| Robert R. Holliday |
Your post is well thought out. Question(s), to support your theory would one have to suppose that America is God’s country and everything is westernized? Real questions. Not here to fight |
| Bob Wizenhut |
God blessed Abram and said you and your nation will be a blessing to all nations. Many Christians believe that God blessed America for the purpose of being a blessing to the nations. And if, as a Christian, you believe that God’s hand was on her founding and God is now calling us to repent, then yes, that will be a strong motivator to support a leader that you believe that God has specifically raised up for such a time as this. |
| Joseph Kidwell |
I believe that it’s just as likely if not more than likely, that Stormy Daniels is an instrument in the hand of God to bring down an evil ruler. I realize Trump does not know much Scripture, but one verse he needs to familiarize himself with is “…what’s done in the darkness will be brought in the light. |
| Hugh Lowrie |
The irony is that dozens in the media, Hollywood and etc. have come out and wagged their finger at Trump only to be outed as hypocrites. To date, 200 Trump haters have lost their jobs because of sexual harassment. Is this God having a sense of humor or is it something else? |
| Joseph Kidwell |
Hugh Lowrie Meanwhile, Michael Flynn and others close to the President have pleaded guilty to felonies. |
| Hugh Lowrie |
Joseph Kidwell – what exactly is your point Joseph. It doesn’t mean they are guilty of any crimes and even if they were, how is that connected to God raising up Trump? I’m not sure what your point is. |
| Joseph Kidwell |
Michael Flynn has pleaded guilty. Another top campaign aide has pleaded guilty. These two have pleaded guilty to felonies. The personal attorney for the President is about to be charged with felonies. He was responsible for the hush money paid to Stormy which the President now admits he paid Cohen back for after saying he knew nothing about it. This is serious whether you want to admit it or not. |
| Marc Jackson |
Joseph Kidwell Honestly Stormy may be on Trump’s team to silence other possible scandals of such nature https://www.washingtonpost.com/…/6937ac52-4ee6-11e8… |
| Michael Upchurch |
Unbelievable. Joseph Kidwell, your constant attacks on Trump are wearing thin. You act as though all other leaders have been perfect examples of morality and lead stellar lives. Let’s all examine each other’s lives and have all the things we did in secret ten years ago brought to light and shared with the Nation. If you pass then congratulations to you, but it still doesn’t give you the right to judge Trump. Paul said explicitly that we are to judge the Church but NOT the world. God will judge them (1 Corinthians‬ â€5:9-13).‬ †As I’ve stated before, Trump won the Evangelical vote because he ran on the platform we adhere to. Smaller less intrusive government, smaller taxes, and a stronger military. He is also a friend of Israel and is making vocal his support of their Nation. You’re believing news reports meant to destroy Trump when instead you should be praying for him as your President. And don’t quote me your “he’s not my President†speech. Obama was my president for eight years and Trump is as well. If you believe the Bible then you should believe Trump is God’s pick. “Everyone must submit to governing authorities. For all authority comes from God, and those in positions of authority have been placed there by God. So anyone who rebels against authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and they will be punished. For the authorities do not strike fear in people who are doing right, but in those who are doing wrong. Would you like to live without fear of the authorities? Do what is right, and they will honor you. The authorities are God’s servants, sent for your good. But if you are doing wrong, of course you should be afraid, for they have the power to punish you. They are God’s servants, sent for the very purpose of punishing those who do what is wrong. So you must submit to them, not only to avoid punishment, but also to keep a clear conscience.â€â€â€Romans‬ â€13:1-5‬ |
| Hugh Lowrie |
Here’s the thing. It’s possible that God raised up Samson to make His name great among the nations or maybe God raised up Delilah to be a thorn in Samson’s flesh and to take him down. Really, it all comes down to whether one can distinguish between whether God was on the side of Israel or the Philistines. And today, Joe can’t distinguish between whether those that hate God and hate Trump are on the side of evil or the side of good. And what you believe about that question determines whether you think that God raised up Trump to make His name great or whether everyone that wants to destroy Trump (and America) is a hero. |
| Michael Upchurch |
Quite a pickle he’s in as you describe it Mr Lowrie |
| Joseph Kidwell |
Michael Upchurch, First, following your rationale, Obama was God’s pick. That being so, why did you oppose him? Were you opposing God’s will? Secondly, we live in a democratic republic and just as Paul asserted his rights as a Roman citizen, I am asserting my First Amendment right to free speech. I am in compliance with Scripture for I am not in armed revolt. I am non-violently opposing evil. Third, I really don’t give a flying flip what you think. I don’t answer to you.😉 |
| Joseph Kidwell |
Hugh Lowrie, God used Rahab to deliver Jericho into the hands of Israel and God is using Stormy to finally make this evil, out of control maniac accountable to the rule of law. |
| Michael Upchurch |
You Sir, are a piece of work. 😂😂I never ever opposed Obama as you charge. Where in the Atmosphere did you pull that from??? Be very glad you don’t answer to me, for you are not walking in love as Jesus commanded, and therefore are guilty of breaking all the Law. Your right to Free Speech as guaranteed you by the First Amendment does not give you the authority to bash God’s pick. The correct stance is to pray. That is your charge. If you elect not to do so, then you will answer for your time spent, not me. I’ll answer for my actions, and they are currently in support of the man chosen to lead this great Nation. I prayed for Obama and I pray for Trump and the President after him. May God bless you in bestowing mercy and grace to you in spite of your anger! |
| Joseph Kidwell |
Michael Upchurch , righteous anger in defense of Biblical social justice and holiness, sir. |
| Michael Upchurch |
Blessings to you Joseph Kidwell. We’ll continue this over Jordan one day! Much love. |
| Hugh Lowrie |
Sometimes it is hard to distinguish between good and evil. Are Evangelicals correct in believing that Trump is fighting evil or is Trump himself evil?Are those fighting to spread infanticide evil or are those trying to stop infanticide evil?Are those fighting to spread gay marriage evil or are those fighting for the sanctity of marriage evil?Are those fighting to keep Black America in economic poverty evil or is President Trump evil for pulling them out?Are those enable ISIS evil or is President Trump evil for destroying ISIS?Are those that want to circumvent the Constitution evil or is President Trump evil for returning the country to the rule of law?If one can’t determine what is evil and what is good how can they ever distinguish between who is evil and who God has raised up to push back against evil?Evangelicals like President Trump because they believe it is not so hard to distinguish between good and evil and they want a leader that doesn’t struggle with that discernment either. |
| Ira Huth |
This is a excellent post Brother Bob Wizenhut very inspired by the Word and the Spirit. All though there are things that I wish (as well as all of us Christians should) President Trump wouldn’t do and or can do better. Through prayer, the Word , the Spirit in supplication he is the right choice for such a time as thisBrother Robert R. Holliday I would like to point out that this Brother’s post is not well thought out, but we’ll established in God’s Word in and through the Holy Spirit with the Gifts and the Fruit thereof. This is why Brother Hugh Lowrie it is hard for some to distinguish between good and evil. They are not operating in power of the Holy Spirit, and or they are operating in pride and humanistic attributes.Brother Michael Upchurch yes you are right it is unbelievable. That there are some in the Body of Christ that stand with by believing the Hollywood elite, the liberal media like the Washington Post and other liberal entities. Instead of speaking and praying the Word through the power of the Holy Spirit tearing down strongholds. Leaning with all their hearts to God and not their own understanding and let the rest up to God. Believe it or not I was caught up in that deception at one time. I have been there and done that. Till I discovered that I was not operating in the true image of Jesus, within the power of the Holy Spirit, that I was actually giving a foothold to the enemy that causes strife, anger and more division. 2 wrongs can’t make it right, 2 wrongs will never correct it just makes it worse, not any better. The Holy Spirit tells us to love wrongdoer, but hate the wrong. Thank the Lord I realized this and asked the Lord to forgive, before it was to late. For one day we will have to give an account on how we lived our life hear on earth, during this time of Spiritual Warfare.This is why to me it is more than unbelievable and shameful, it is very sad and grieving. We as Brothers and Sisters in Christ need to speak and pray down these strongholds in Love, before it is to late. For one day Jesus will split the eastern sky!!!! |
| Michael Upchurch |
Well said Sir! |
| Marc Jackson |
Joseph Kidwell There we go with the fake news again. The presupposition of the very question in this post is fundamentally wrong. No one ever said 81% evangelicals voted for Trump The exit polls do not capture the ‘evangelical’ vote, only the ‘white evangelical’ vote. The vote was not based on race. Black and Latino voters did not have the evangelical option on the exit post. They had to choose Protestant instead. Also, evangelicals and born-again was taken as one number. This is theologically and fundamentally wrong. Mormons claim born-again but they are not evangelicals. Many cultural Christians who never go to church identify as ‘evangelical’ or ‘born-again.’ This is especially and specifically true for some members of this group who go as far as claiming to be Pentecostal but not even speak in tongues. There’s a form of cultural Christianity that causes people to respond with ‘evangelical’ and ‘born-again’ as long as they’re not Catholic, even though they haven’t been in a church since Vacation Bible School as a kid. To the media, such distinctions may be unimportant. But if we are seeking a fair and accurate representation of actual evangelicals, it’s important to distinguish them from those who do not truly subscribe to evangelical beliefs and practices.This particular factoring by the media is BY ALL MEANS NOT in favor of American evangelicals. Next thing the media will be telling us you are evangelical if you voted for Trump. It was in favor of larger political schematics the church should have never placed itself in. Alas! Many White Evangelicals who voted for Trump live like the devil. They drink, openly curse and use choice words on the internet (few examples of those in this group too), disregard sin as un-important for the moral foundations and overall morale of the nation and believe fairy tail stories they like to call “prophecies.†Not to mention have very little clue what True Republic is, as for the most they practice democratic Christianity in their churches and personal lives. Finally, exit polls only tell us about the people who have voted.While this point may seem obvious, misleading extrapolations based on exit poll numbers are the norm. For example, many people will look at the exit poll data and claim that 81 percent of (white) evangelicals voted for Donald Trump. But this is not what the exit polls reveal. The data merely show that 81 percent of (white) evangelicals who voted voted for Trump. According to the United States Elections Project, there were an estimated 231,556,622 Americans eligible to vote, but only 131,741,000 voted (most for Hillary). That means only 56.8 percent of the eligible population voted, and 43.2 percent of the eligible population did not. Instead of saying 81 percent of white evangelicals voted for Trump, a more accurate claim would be that 46 percent of white evangelicals who were eligible to vote did so. In other words more evangelicals did not vote for Trump (or Clinton) than voted for him (or her).On the call for prayer the poster has combined with these face statistics and being the National Day of Prayer todayYES, we all need to pray for the President. Truth be said, 81% of the 81% of the evangelicals said to be voted don’t practice prayer in about 81% part of their lives, so may be a good thing to be called to actually pray as the Church should. The reason, prayer is important this time around is because ONLY PRAYER can save the rest of the presidential term from collapsing. It will be indeed a sovereign act of God. So, pray Saints (at least the 19% who still practice prayer in their daily lives). |
| Bob Wizenhut |
Yes, many people identify as white Evangelical that swear or otherwise would be considered less devote. But what we do know is that the more devote a white Evangelical is, the more rooted they are in the Word, the more likely it is that they voted for President Trump. So maybe the number is 87% of devote white Evangelicals that voted cast their vote for Trump. How do we explain this? Google “Barna Biblical Worldview” to understand why. |
| Joseph Kidwell |
Bob Wizenhut, that’s ridiculous! Some of the most devoted Christians I know voted for Hillary Clinton. They are appalled when Christians defend this racist, corrupt, hedonistic, irresponsible man |
| Bob Wizenhut |
Joseph Kidwell – I’m just talking about statistics, nothing more. And the numbers show that the more devote the group is the higher the percentage of support. |
| Scotty Searan |
Joseph Kidwell Bob didn’t say all devoted Christians voted for Trump |
| Joseph Kidwell |
He said that the more devoted one is, the more likely they voted for Trump. That’s false |
| Scotty Searan |
Joseph Kidwell more does not mean all |
| Marc Jackson |
We were all warned http://www.pentecostaltheology.com/new-2018-warnings-by…/ |
| Joseph Kidwell |
Scotty Searan I never said “all”. |
| Ira Huth |
Wow!!! Unbelievable Troy Day!! None of this really matters!!! Who cares my Brother. Whether it is your logic, your opinion whether based truth or false facts, whether it is you are right or wrong or whatever your reason or motive is it does not matter.My Brother it is just causing more Havoc, confusion, disorder, division within the Body of Christ. That is what the enemy wants in these last days. Because it is not based on the Word of God through the empowerment of the Fruit and the Gifts of the Holy Spirit. God is in control he uses the just and the unjust to work all things out for those that love him and are called according to his purpose Show us Scriptures within the eyes of Jesus, within the attributes of the Holy Spirit, within the Great Commission, within the greatest commandment Love. Because without love you have nothing in the eyes of God. |
| Marc Jackson |
Bob Wizenhut I for one believe this to be racial profiling. And un constitutional too. Why would white be asked if they are evangelicals on the exit polls but blacks and latinos are not? What is wrong with this picture right here? Joseph Kidwell Nelson Banuchi https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PfH8IG7Awk0&feature=youtu.be |
| Bob Wizenhut |
Troy, you ask a great question. And the answer relates to “why would anyone write articles asking why 81% of white Evangelicals voted for Trump?” The point of asking the question and the point of writing the articles is to create this false narrative that white Evangelicals are racist and only voted for Trump because they are racist and it has nothing to do with the fact that they put the lordship of Christ first. |
| Marc Jackson |
Bob I hear you. Most worrisome is the fact that Church folk are so brain washed by media demagogy they cannot distinguish their faith from their politics. It’s like this to meHow can a man with 3 wives defend the sanctity of marriage? Brainwashed folk will tell you he just loves family too much |
| Bob Wizenhut |
Troy Day – think of King Jehu. He had been one of King Ahab’s generals, which means not only did he have a foul mouth but he embraced infanticide, gay sex and sex outside of marriage. While Jehu says to the holy man, “come see my zeal for God” we are never told by the narrator that Jehu’s zeal was real. For all we know Jehu was an opportunist and once in power he did the things that please the one’s that put him in power.Here we have Donald Trump. I’ve not heard anyone say that they believe Donald Trump is a devote believer or that he has the character qualities of a devote Christian. But, when devote Christians rank the policies he has put in place they give The Donald higher marks that either Bush and even Ronald Reagan. The thing is that President Trump realizes that if he loses Evangelicals that his enemies will crush him. So, he does more to please Evangelicals that those that we always thought were true believers. |
| Robert R. Holliday |
Not me per say, but I find it quite queer that a fellow brother would be attacked because he would have an different opinion. Many scriptures are bandied about praying for the POTUS, the assumption being one doesn’t. Yet, if, and again I say if he’s wrong why not hold him in prayer and not call him out? One can prayer for the POTUS and still abhor his actions. Who do you have more in common with, Joseph Kidwell or Donald Trump? Yea swords cut both ways |
| Marc Jackson |
Robert R. Holliday there is a great lack of understanding what a true Republican is anymore. But with this aside, there is lack of understanding of what a real Christian is #PRAY |
| Robert R. Holliday |
Agree |
| Marc Jackson |
Bob as to your analogy the anti Christ of the Bible also brings peace and fulfills God’s will to the dot. This is beyond the point here. Do you believe that the killings in Chicago gang land have stopped and we have taken back Chicago as we were promised ? |
| Bob Wizenhut |
Not everything that has been promised has been delivered. But, what we do know, is that Heritage Foundation says that President Trump completed a full 66% of campaign promises within the first 12 months, better than any previous Republican in their first term. Are you suggesting that if a you can identify a campaign promise that hasn’t been completed within the first year that this establishes that it was something other than God’s hand that brought Trump into office? And are you saying that there is no way for spirit filled Christians to discern between what God is doing and the anti-Christ? |
| Marc Jackson |
No I am not saying any of that This is what I am saying We were promised Wall Chicago back Companies coming back to the USReversal of gay marriage Tax relief Comprehensive immigration And so much more – I posted a comprehensive list just the other dayinstead we are getting- higher gas prices due to dumb Iran policy – high nuclear level because of some dumb twits – EU taxing Google, Apple, Facebook and more b/c of tariffs – 3 billion from China as response to the same on top of most of our external debt under fire being partially owned by them This us just in the past few weeks of 2018. What’s next? Thus far about 8% of promises have been completed. That makes 30-40% in 4 yrs. What about the rest? We have families and children and next generation to worry about dont we? |
| Bob Wizenhut |
So let me ask the question again, “what is your point?” Yes, some campaign promises weren’t completed in the first year but more has been completed in 12 months than any previous President achieved in 4 years. In fact, President Trump has become known as the first President to take promises seriously, maybe because when he was elected he didn’t owe anyone but his voters anything. |
| Marc Jackson |
Accountability! Much work needs to be done and not enough time. Much time wasted on tweeting and fulling around And let’s stop with the fake news (like the ones above pls) We’ve had presidents who signed the Constitution and won wars while Trump counted defunding the Y2K fund as one of his great accomplishments … in 2018 |
| Ira Huth |
Troy Day Chicago is not a good analogy, I lived and worked all my life in Chicago. The politics is very corrupt, very liberal in so many ways, Cook County, Chicago and some of the surrounding suburbs is so corrupt it is scary. I ought to know I was on a Suburban Police Dept. for a very, very short time, as a naive 21 year old in the 70’s.I woke up to the reality real quick on how corrupt politics can have such a strong hold in Law Enforcement in certain areas.That is probably one good reason why President Trump made a statement that he should send troops to clean up the gangs and murder rate in Chicago.. There is no way they would even think about working with a Republican President like Trump. |
| Marc Jackson |
http://www.chicagotribune.com/…/ct-met-chicago-weekend… |
| Bob Wizenhut |
Ira Huth, Robert R. Holliday, Michael Upchurch, My dad was out hiking is the remote park and his hat blew off, he reached for it and he fell into the deep ravine. He was unconscious and busted up real bad. By some freak chance these 4 hikers just happened to be coming by and saw it happened and saved his life. 4 seconds either way and they wouldn’t have seen him fall. It was by odd chance that they even stopped to hike that day. After saving my dad they went back and took pictures. You can see a visible cross where my dad landed. More than that, 7 friends had dreams and predicated that this would happen. I don’t want to go into all the detailed but there we 77 other freaky coincidences surrounding the entire event.We told our Church that it was the hand of God that our father is alive. But one sharp young man, after reading about it in the newspaper, informed us that one of the guys that saved our father was remarried.There you go. Just when we thought it was the hand of God it obviously wasn’t because God would never use someone that was remarried to save someone else’s life! |
| Michael Upchurch |
Well there you go. The Church is always right because they’ve never sinned and wouldn’t tolerate anyone who had. Thank God there are moral standards in the Church, especially leaders, that point the way to truth so we don’t fall. I thank God for the wisdom of your Church which straightened you out. I wish more church members could see our leadership NEVER fails and their moral compass ALWAYS points accurately!!! We mortal members are blessed to have Church Leaders to correct us in our frail reasonings!!! |
| Marc Jackson |
Was Trump in any of the 7 visions of the 7 dreamers. If not, they were all 7×77 times wrong #there |
| Hugh Lowrie |
Troy Day – If you believe that somehow Trump won the Presidency with the media against him, the FBI, all the money, the elites of both parties but somehow it wasn’t God… then you need to come up with a better argument than “well Trump has been married 3 times”. |
| Marc Jackson |
oh I very much believe it was God or I wouldnt have voted. We had a great discussion about the role of Trump started by Nelson Banuchi You should do well to read it BTW side note: Bob Wizenhut Hugh Lowrie did you vote for Obama and then for Trump? |
| Bob Wizenhut |
Nelson doesn’t want to talk to me anymore because he is so dejected by the fact that for 4 months now President Trump’s approval numbers have been consistently higher than President Obama’s were 8 years ago. But you know, the facts are what they are and you need to move on with your life. |
| Robert R. Holliday |
That apples to oranges analogy rates silences from me. Keep moving the goalposts. |
| Robert R. Holliday |
I will clarify one thing. I don’t hate Trump. Not at all. I pray for him. Yet, I won’t bury my head in the sand. Since the 80s I have thought Trump to be a con man. He has proven that. I have never expected the POTUS to be my pastor. Just a person of good character. I have been politically aware since Nixon. From that time to this day there have been people in that house I have not agreed with. Yet, I have never feared that we were without leadership. I have never bought up his ex-wives. You are using false moral narratives. Even if we make mistakes the bible we all say we live by requires us to admit them and keep moving. Because of your political leanings you justify everything he does. You voted for him, fine. You like him, dandy. Just stop lying for him. That’s all. Its unseemly. |
| Nelson Banuchi |
Bob Wizenhut For the record, I choose not to respond to your comments for two reasons (1) life priorities, (2) you continue make moral judgments (something Jesus warns against) by describing those who do not agree with Trump as “Trump-haters,” (which is the primary reason why I stopped responding to your comments) and (3) respectfully, you say the most ridiculous things.’nut said. |
| Michael Upchurch |
I must leave this group as I differ with so many people on here. Trump is my President, chosen of God. He is amoral. Certainly he is morally and ethically challenged, but he is my President. I voted for him and I would probably vote for him again. God, through the Holy Spirit who dwells within me, directed me to do so last election and may very well direct me to do so again. I stand by my vote and I stand by my President. The rest of you who are sinless and perfect may continue on with your discussions, but they only divide and stir controversy which Paul admonished us to avoid. I leave you in peace. I leave you with this blessing; May the Lord shine His countenance upon you. May you find mercy when you deserved otherwise. May grace be yours regardless. May Christ forgive you and lead you and may you obey. May you repent if found in error and may you prosper in all that you do. Goodnight all. |
| Hugh Lowrie |
Odd, I also remember Nelson unable to accept with the fact that President Trump’s approval rating is now consistently higher than Obama’s was 8 years ago. |
| Nelson Banuchi |
Troy Day If “it was God” relates to permission, I agree. IMO, God permitted Trump to be POTUS, as it appears, as a judgment against the nation irrespective of the economy (apparently, people voted valuing pay raises and bonuses more than truth). It’s the consequences of Trump’s presidency in the long run that concerns me. |
| Nelson Banuchi |
Hugh Lowrie If his rating is so high, it is embarrassing to me that Americans – including, conservative Christians and “far right” Christians – love a liar (among other things). |
| Hugh Lowrie |
There we go again. If we can just catch President Trump lying, even once, we will feel vindicated that he is just as dishonest as Obama and Clinton! https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=1408495729295809&set=a.788317424646979.1073741826.100004061852832&type=3&theater |
| Nelson Banuchi |
‘nuf said. |
| Marc Jackson |
Bob Wizenhut Your call to move along is surprising. Why post this post if you are just moving along? I for one am not OK with the racial segregation of the exit polls. As a white evangelical I would not be marginalized by the media. I am surprised to hear you are OK with that. Nelson Banuchi good point on judgment – God gives kings according to the nation’s own heart… |
| Bob Wizenhut |
Not sure what you are responding to. |
| Marc Jackson |
Your call to move along with our lives and disregard the obvious while diminishing its effect on the future of the Church |
| Bob Wizenhut |
Troy Day – and where did I make such a call? Help me out here. There have been a lot of comments so I don’t know what you might be referring to. |
| Marc Jackson |
Here: “you need to move on with your life.” https://www.facebook.com/…/permalink/1695968410458167/… |
| Bob Wizenhut |
Are you going back to my comments to Nelson about accepting that President Trump’s approval rates are climbing and now consistently higher than President Trump’s? That relates to a discuss a couple weeks back. Why are you trying to tie those comments to the current thread? |
| Marc Jackson |
Should EVANGELICALS who voted be worried as a sour smell of panic in the White House as the law closes in? There are several signs that the investigation of the president and the pushback against it have entered a new, more acrimonious phase. Giuliani’s media blitz gives investigators new leads, new evidence!!! |
| Bob Wizenhut |
After two years, 5 investigations there is no evidence of collusion with Russia much less evidence that President Trump or anyone close to him were involved. It now appears that Mueller has abandoned his pursuit of collusion and is now trying to trap the President in a process crime. Polls show that support for continued investigation of the President is falling while approval of the President himself is climbing and now at 50%. Those two trends appear to be connected, i.e. the investigation is fueling growing support for the President.So how should Evangelicals respond if they believe evidence indicates that the President is being investigated, not because of crimes, but because he is pushing back against the status quo, the swamp?Clearly, there is no panic at the White House. The President clearly understands that the investigation is helping him politically. |
| Marc Jackson |
Patiently wait for his lawyers archives before making such conclusions. Too much personal and paper trail there, not to mention the cash flow. The truth will come out! |
| Hugh Lowrie |
Evangelicals need to pray that truth be revealed and demand the same from our government. Regardless of whether one voted for Trump or not this investigation should be troubling to anyone that believes in the rule of law. https://www.reuters.com/…/u-s-judge-questions-special… |
| Joseph Kidwell |
Bob Wizenhut, wrong! Close to 70% of the public wants Muellar to be able to finish his investigation. Secondly, Michael Flynn has pleaded guilty to felonies along with a campaign worker. Manifort has been indicted for felonies. The investigation continues. Muellar if he is anything, is methodical. He’s simply working his way up the food chain. |
| Hugh Lowrie |
Joseph Kidwell – please keep in mind that what Flynn pleaded guilty to has nothing to do with Trump or collusion with Russia. And the judge might force Flynn to retract his guilty plea as it looks like he was coerced while going broke. |
| Hugh Lowrie |
Joseph Kidwell – Muellar’s investigation is over. He is trying to keep it going but without evidence of collusion, the courts will shut him down. https://www.reuters.com/…/u-s-judge-questions-special… |
| Joseph Kidwell |
Hugh Lowrie, LOL!!! That’s old! Ask Trump if it’s over! Ask Cohen if it’s over! Ask Flynn if it’s over! Ask Manifort if it’s over! |
| Joseph Kidwell |
Hugh Lowrie, you are just whistling by the graveyard! |
| Hugh Lowrie |
Joseph Kidwell – The President will allow the investigation to go on through November so that he can pick up 4-6 seats in the Senate. Once the mid-term election is over, the President will shut it down, and as President he has every right to do so. But the investigation is what is fueling his rise to 51% approval rating. |
| Joseph Kidwell |
Hugh Lowrie, you watch too much Fox News. His approval rating hovers around the 41% mark. Secondly, The GOP will lose the House & may lose the Senate. The Dem’s have flipped 39 seats in state, local and federal elections since Trump was elected. If the President tries that, it will trigger a Constitutional crisis and ensure his impeachment. To be brutally honest, I hope he tries it. He certainly is dumb and reckless enough to. |
| Hugh Lowrie |
Fox News? Never seen it. http://www.rasmussenreports.com/…/trum…/prez_track_may04 |
| Marc Jackson |
After the 2010 midterm elections, Silver concluded that Rasmussen’s polls were the least accurate of the major pollsters in 2010, having an average error of 5.8 points and a pro-Republican bias of 3.9 points according to Silver’s model.I am following the county primaries around here and many that I know as old republicans are putting their names on dem tickets just to win office this time (and to exonerate themselves from current republican policies). This is the South I am talking about People are just NOT happy. Common folk got conned with the tax reform and will not have it |
| Hugh Lowrie |
To date, Dems have only flipped on House seat and that was because the Dem ran as a Republican and promised to support President Trump. Analysts are projecting the GOP to pick up 7-8 Senate seats. That’s Yuge! |
| Joseph Kidwell |
Hugh Lowrie, wrong! That is unless you count being pro-union pro-Obama care “running as a Republican. |
| Hugh Lowrie |
Joseph Kidwell – you do realize that in PA President Trump did win the union vote? Bringing the jobs back to America is not an anti-union position. But that is exactly why the Republican lost. He ran away from Trump while the Dem ran to Trump. |
| Joseph Kidwell |
The GOP anti-union as is Trump. The judges like Gorsuch that he is nominating are anti-union. |
| Hugh Lowrie |
The point is that the Dems have only turned one House seat, only one, and that seat is temporary and was turned only because the Dem ran on Trump’s agenda while the Republican walked away from it. This may be the first mid term where the traditional wave doesn’t materialize. |
| Joseph Kidwell |
Hugh Lowrie, The Dem’s flipped the Senate seat in Alabama. They have flipped three seats in Florida. They came withing a coin toss of flipping the Virginia Legislature and have flipped 35 state and local seats around the country. In addition, they are outperforming in bright red areas. The Governor of Wisconsin sounded a distress alarm after the Dem’s flipped two seats there. Go ahead and keep on whistling by the graveyard! The blue wave is on it’s way.#BlueWave |
| Jan Dixon Sykes |
Historically, the other party takes Congress in The Midterms. Sure true for Obama. Obama lost over 1,000 seats of Democrats throughout America during his presidency. 35 is a good start of getting them back. |
| Hugh Lowrie |
1035 seats were lost during Obama in Congress or at the state level. But to date, the Dems have only flipped one seat. Only one. And that flip came because the Dem ran towards Trump and the Republican ran away from Trump. Analysts are suggesting that Trump will pick up 7-9 Senate seats! Think about how this bucks a well established trend. |
| Jan Dixon Sykes |
Hugh, the dems flipped AL, too. Remember the dates Roy Moore had with high school girls back in the 80s? Everyone was aghast. But not a single thing done to throw out the Congressmen who paid off “people†with OUR money to remain silent. For all we know, they paid off little boys. |
| Bob Wizenhut |
Jan, that was a Senate race and it was also surrounded by special circumstances. The fact is, the Dems have only flipped on seat and they won’t even keep that flip come November. |
| Joseph Kidwell |
When the Trumpsters no longer control the House next year and very possibly the Senate, I want to hear what you all have to say. Will Jan Dixon Sykes and Bob Wizenhut be making the accusation that millions of illegals voted? LOL!!!! |
| Marc Jackson |
Joseph Kidwell as many political topics in this group, after re-reading the discussion, it is clear it has no validity to Pentecostal Theology Truth is the percentage is much lower and has even less importance to the Pentecostal church when the “cultural Christians” factor comes in play. Clearly another media conning targeting the Church, among many others in the filed |
| Marc Jackson |
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| Scotty Searan |
BobWizenhut what a great post. Let’s see who it smokes out |
| Hugh Lowrie |
You’ll notice that those asking why 81% of white Evangelicals would vote for and continue to support President Trump never offer a Biblical basis for not supporting President Trump.You’ll never see them digging into the Bible for passages that support open borders, passages supporting keeping Black America in economic bondage, passages that support infanticide or gay sex. Instead, they argue that President Trump has the same flawed character as those that hate him. So in effect their argument is that President Trump resembles Samson, David and other Biblical heroes that had character flaws that therefore Christian voters should stay home and not vote for either the candidate that God raised up or the evil that President Trump is fighting against.But this logic just doesn’t have a Biblical basis that I’ve been able to find. |
| Robert R. Holliday |
Your post is well thought out. Question(s), to support your theory would one have to suppose that America is God’s country and everything is westernized? Real questions. Not here to fight |
| Bob Wizenhut |
God blessed Abram and said you and your nation will be a blessing to all nations. Many Christians believe that God blessed America for the purpose of being a blessing to the nations. And if, as a Christian, you believe that God’s hand was on her founding and God is now calling us to repent, then yes, that will be a strong motivator to support a leader that you believe that God has specifically raised up for such a time as this. |
| Joseph Kidwell |
I believe that it’s just as likely if not more than likely, that Stormy Daniels is an instrument in the hand of God to bring down an evil ruler. I realize Trump does not know much Scripture, but one verse he needs to familiarize himself with is “…what’s done in the darkness will be brought in the light. |
| Hugh Lowrie |
The irony is that dozens in the media, Hollywood and etc. have come out and wagged their finger at Trump only to be outed as hypocrites. To date, 200 Trump haters have lost their jobs because of sexual harassment. Is this God having a sense of humor or is it something else? |
| Joseph Kidwell |
Hugh Lowrie Meanwhile, Michael Flynn and others close to the President have pleaded guilty to felonies. |
| Hugh Lowrie |
Joseph Kidwell – what exactly is your point Joseph. It doesn’t mean they are guilty of any crimes and even if they were, how is that connected to God raising up Trump? I’m not sure what your point is. |
| Joseph Kidwell |
Michael Flynn has pleaded guilty. Another top campaign aide has pleaded guilty. These two have pleaded guilty to felonies. The personal attorney for the President is about to be charged with felonies. He was responsible for the hush money paid to Stormy which the President now admits he paid Cohen back for after saying he knew nothing about it. This is serious whether you want to admit it or not. |
| Marc Jackson |
Joseph Kidwell Honestly Stormy may be on Trump’s team to silence other possible scandals of such nature https://www.washingtonpost.com/…/6937ac52-4ee6-11e8… |
| Michael Upchurch |
Unbelievable. Joseph Kidwell, your constant attacks on Trump are wearing thin. You act as though all other leaders have been perfect examples of morality and lead stellar lives. Let’s all examine each other’s lives and have all the things we did in secret ten years ago brought to light and shared with the Nation. If you pass then congratulations to you, but it still doesn’t give you the right to judge Trump. Paul said explicitly that we are to judge the Church but NOT the world. God will judge them (1 Corinthians‬ â€5:9-13).‬ †As I’ve stated before, Trump won the Evangelical vote because he ran on the platform we adhere to. Smaller less intrusive government, smaller taxes, and a stronger military. He is also a friend of Israel and is making vocal his support of their Nation. You’re believing news reports meant to destroy Trump when instead you should be praying for him as your President. And don’t quote me your “he’s not my President†speech. Obama was my president for eight years and Trump is as well. If you believe the Bible then you should believe Trump is God’s pick. “Everyone must submit to governing authorities. For all authority comes from God, and those in positions of authority have been placed there by God. So anyone who rebels against authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and they will be punished. For the authorities do not strike fear in people who are doing right, but in those who are doing wrong. Would you like to live without fear of the authorities? Do what is right, and they will honor you. The authorities are God’s servants, sent for your good. But if you are doing wrong, of course you should be afraid, for they have the power to punish you. They are God’s servants, sent for the very purpose of punishing those who do what is wrong. So you must submit to them, not only to avoid punishment, but also to keep a clear conscience.â€â€â€Romans‬ â€13:1-5‬ |
| Hugh Lowrie |
Here’s the thing. It’s possible that God raised up Samson to make His name great among the nations or maybe God raised up Delilah to be a thorn in Samson’s flesh and to take him down. Really, it all comes down to whether one can distinguish between whether God was on the side of Israel or the Philistines. And today, Joe can’t distinguish between whether those that hate God and hate Trump are on the side of evil or the side of good. And what you believe about that question determines whether you think that God raised up Trump to make His name great or whether everyone that wants to destroy Trump (and America) is a hero. |
| Michael Upchurch |
Quite a pickle he’s in as you describe it Mr Lowrie |
| Joseph Kidwell |
Michael Upchurch, First, following your rationale, Obama was God’s pick. That being so, why did you oppose him? Were you opposing God’s will? Secondly, we live in a democratic republic and just as Paul asserted his rights as a Roman citizen, I am asserting my First Amendment right to free speech. I am in compliance with Scripture for I am not in armed revolt. I am non-violently opposing evil. Third, I really don’t give a flying flip what you think. I don’t answer to you.😉 |
| Joseph Kidwell |
Hugh Lowrie, God used Rahab to deliver Jericho into the hands of Israel and God is using Stormy to finally make this evil, out of control maniac accountable to the rule of law. |
| Michael Upchurch |
You Sir, are a piece of work. 😂😂I never ever opposed Obama as you charge. Where in the Atmosphere did you pull that from??? Be very glad you don’t answer to me, for you are not walking in love as Jesus commanded, and therefore are guilty of breaking all the Law. Your right to Free Speech as guaranteed you by the First Amendment does not give you the authority to bash God’s pick. The correct stance is to pray. That is your charge. If you elect not to do so, then you will answer for your time spent, not me. I’ll answer for my actions, and they are currently in support of the man chosen to lead this great Nation. I prayed for Obama and I pray for Trump and the President after him. May God bless you in bestowing mercy and grace to you in spite of your anger! |
| Joseph Kidwell |
Michael Upchurch , righteous anger in defense of Biblical social justice and holiness, sir. |
| Michael Upchurch |
Blessings to you Joseph Kidwell. We’ll continue this over Jordan one day! Much love. |
| Hugh Lowrie |
Sometimes it is hard to distinguish between good and evil. Are Evangelicals correct in believing that Trump is fighting evil or is Trump himself evil?Are those fighting to spread infanticide evil or are those trying to stop infanticide evil?Are those fighting to spread gay marriage evil or are those fighting for the sanctity of marriage evil?Are those fighting to keep Black America in economic poverty evil or is President Trump evil for pulling them out?Are those enable ISIS evil or is President Trump evil for destroying ISIS?Are those that want to circumvent the Constitution evil or is President Trump evil for returning the country to the rule of law?If one can’t determine what is evil and what is good how can they ever distinguish between who is evil and who God has raised up to push back against evil?Evangelicals like President Trump because they believe it is not so hard to distinguish between good and evil and they want a leader that doesn’t struggle with that discernment either. |
| Ira Huth |
This is a excellent post Brother Bob Wizenhut very inspired by the Word and the Spirit. All though there are things that I wish (as well as all of us Christians should) President Trump wouldn’t do and or can do better. Through prayer, the Word , the Spirit in supplication he is the right choice for such a time as thisBrother Robert R. Holliday I would like to point out that this Brother’s post is not well thought out, but we’ll established in God’s Word in and through the Holy Spirit with the Gifts and the Fruit thereof. This is why Brother Hugh Lowrie it is hard for some to distinguish between good and evil. They are not operating in power of the Holy Spirit, and or they are operating in pride and humanistic attributes.Brother Michael Upchurch yes you are right it is unbelievable. That there are some in the Body of Christ that stand with by believing the Hollywood elite, the liberal media like the Washington Post and other liberal entities. Instead of speaking and praying the Word through the power of the Holy Spirit tearing down strongholds. Leaning with all their hearts to God and not their own understanding and let the rest up to God. Believe it or not I was caught up in that deception at one time. I have been there and done that. Till I discovered that I was not operating in the true image of Jesus, within the power of the Holy Spirit, that I was actually giving a foothold to the enemy that causes strife, anger and more division. 2 wrongs can’t make it right, 2 wrongs will never correct it just makes it worse, not any better. The Holy Spirit tells us to love wrongdoer, but hate the wrong. Thank the Lord I realized this and asked the Lord to forgive, before it was to late. For one day we will have to give an account on how we lived our life hear on earth, during this time of Spiritual Warfare.This is why to me it is more than unbelievable and shameful, it is very sad and grieving. We as Brothers and Sisters in Christ need to speak and pray down these strongholds in Love, before it is to late. For one day Jesus will split the eastern sky!!!! |
| Michael Upchurch |
Well said Sir! |
| Marc Jackson |
Joseph Kidwell There we go with the fake news again. The presupposition of the very question in this post is fundamentally wrong. No one ever said 81% evangelicals voted for Trump The exit polls do not capture the ‘evangelical’ vote, only the ‘white evangelical’ vote. The vote was not based on race. Black and Latino voters did not have the evangelical option on the exit post. They had to choose Protestant instead. Also, evangelicals and born-again was taken as one number. This is theologically and fundamentally wrong. Mormons claim born-again but they are not evangelicals. Many cultural Christians who never go to church identify as ‘evangelical’ or ‘born-again.’ This is especially and specifically true for some members of this group who go as far as claiming to be Pentecostal but not even speak in tongues. There’s a form of cultural Christianity that causes people to respond with ‘evangelical’ and ‘born-again’ as long as they’re not Catholic, even though they haven’t been in a church since Vacation Bible School as a kid. To the media, such distinctions may be unimportant. But if we are seeking a fair and accurate representation of actual evangelicals, it’s important to distinguish them from those who do not truly subscribe to evangelical beliefs and practices.This particular factoring by the media is BY ALL MEANS NOT in favor of American evangelicals. Next thing the media will be telling us you are evangelical if you voted for Trump. It was in favor of larger political schematics the church should have never placed itself in. Alas! Many White Evangelicals who voted for Trump live like the devil. They drink, openly curse and use choice words on the internet (few examples of those in this group too), disregard sin as un-important for the moral foundations and overall morale of the nation and believe fairy tail stories they like to call “prophecies.†Not to mention have very little clue what True Republic is, as for the most they practice democratic Christianity in their churches and personal lives. Finally, exit polls only tell us about the people who have voted.While this point may seem obvious, misleading extrapolations based on exit poll numbers are the norm. For example, many people will look at the exit poll data and claim that 81 percent of (white) evangelicals voted for Donald Trump. But this is not what the exit polls reveal. The data merely show that 81 percent of (white) evangelicals who voted voted for Trump. According to the United States Elections Project, there were an estimated 231,556,622 Americans eligible to vote, but only 131,741,000 voted (most for Hillary). That means only 56.8 percent of the eligible population voted, and 43.2 percent of the eligible population did not. Instead of saying 81 percent of white evangelicals voted for Trump, a more accurate claim would be that 46 percent of white evangelicals who were eligible to vote did so. In other words more evangelicals did not vote for Trump (or Clinton) than voted for him (or her).On the call for prayer the poster has combined with these face statistics and being the National Day of Prayer todayYES, we all need to pray for the President. Truth be said, 81% of the 81% of the evangelicals said to be voted don’t practice prayer in about 81% part of their lives, so may be a good thing to be called to actually pray as the Church should. The reason, prayer is important this time around is because ONLY PRAYER can save the rest of the presidential term from collapsing. It will be indeed a sovereign act of God. So, pray Saints (at least the 19% who still practice prayer in their daily lives). |
| Bob Wizenhut |
Yes, many people identify as white Evangelical that swear or otherwise would be considered less devote. But what we do know is that the more devote a white Evangelical is, the more rooted they are in the Word, the more likely it is that they voted for President Trump. So maybe the number is 87% of devote white Evangelicals that voted cast their vote for Trump. How do we explain this? Google “Barna Biblical Worldview” to understand why. |
| Joseph Kidwell |
Bob Wizenhut, that’s ridiculous! Some of the most devoted Christians I know voted for Hillary Clinton. They are appalled when Christians defend this racist, corrupt, hedonistic, irresponsible man |
| Bob Wizenhut |
Joseph Kidwell – I’m just talking about statistics, nothing more. And the numbers show that the more devote the group is the higher the percentage of support. |
| Scotty Searan |
Joseph Kidwell Bob didn’t say all devoted Christians voted for Trump |
| Joseph Kidwell |
He said that the more devoted one is, the more likely they voted for Trump. That’s false |
| Scotty Searan |
Joseph Kidwell more does not mean all |
| Marc Jackson |
We were all warned http://www.pentecostaltheology.com/new-2018-warnings-by…/ |
| Joseph Kidwell |
Scotty Searan I never said “all”. |
| Ira Huth |
Wow!!! Unbelievable Troy Day!! None of this really matters!!! Who cares my Brother. Whether it is your logic, your opinion whether based truth or false facts, whether it is you are right or wrong or whatever your reason or motive is it does not matter.My Brother it is just causing more Havoc, confusion, disorder, division within the Body of Christ. That is what the enemy wants in these last days. Because it is not based on the Word of God through the empowerment of the Fruit and the Gifts of the Holy Spirit. God is in control he uses the just and the unjust to work all things out for those that love him and are called according to his purpose Show us Scriptures within the eyes of Jesus, within the attributes of the Holy Spirit, within the Great Commission, within the greatest commandment Love. Because without love you have nothing in the eyes of God. |
| Marc Jackson |
Bob Wizenhut I for one believe this to be racial profiling. And un constitutional too. Why would white be asked if they are evangelicals on the exit polls but blacks and latinos are not? What is wrong with this picture right here? Joseph Kidwell Nelson Banuchi https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PfH8IG7Awk0&feature=youtu.be |
| Bob Wizenhut |
Troy, you ask a great question. And the answer relates to “why would anyone write articles asking why 81% of white Evangelicals voted for Trump?” The point of asking the question and the point of writing the articles is to create this false narrative that white Evangelicals are racist and only voted for Trump because they are racist and it has nothing to do with the fact that they put the lordship of Christ first. |
| Marc Jackson |
Bob I hear you. Most worrisome is the fact that Church folk are so brain washed by media demagogy they cannot distinguish their faith from their politics. It’s like this to meHow can a man with 3 wives defend the sanctity of marriage? Brainwashed folk will tell you he just loves family too much |
| Bob Wizenhut |
Troy Day – think of King Jehu. He had been one of King Ahab’s generals, which means not only did he have a foul mouth but he embraced infanticide, gay sex and sex outside of marriage. While Jehu says to the holy man, “come see my zeal for God” we are never told by the narrator that Jehu’s zeal was real. For all we know Jehu was an opportunist and once in power he did the things that please the one’s that put him in power.Here we have Donald Trump. I’ve not heard anyone say that they believe Donald Trump is a devote believer or that he has the character qualities of a devote Christian. But, when devote Christians rank the policies he has put in place they give The Donald higher marks that either Bush and even Ronald Reagan. The thing is that President Trump realizes that if he loses Evangelicals that his enemies will crush him. So, he does more to please Evangelicals that those that we always thought were true believers. |
| Robert R. Holliday |
Not me per say, but I find it quite queer that a fellow brother would be attacked because he would have an different opinion. Many scriptures are bandied about praying for the POTUS, the assumption being one doesn’t. Yet, if, and again I say if he’s wrong why not hold him in prayer and not call him out? One can prayer for the POTUS and still abhor his actions. Who do you have more in common with, Joseph Kidwell or Donald Trump? Yea swords cut both ways |
| Marc Jackson |
Robert R. Holliday there is a great lack of understanding what a true Republican is anymore. But with this aside, there is lack of understanding of what a real Christian is #PRAY |
| Robert R. Holliday |
Agree |
| Marc Jackson |
Bob as to your analogy the anti Christ of the Bible also brings peace and fulfills God’s will to the dot. This is beyond the point here. Do you believe that the killings in Chicago gang land have stopped and we have taken back Chicago as we were promised ? |
| Bob Wizenhut |
Not everything that has been promised has been delivered. But, what we do know, is that Heritage Foundation says that President Trump completed a full 66% of campaign promises within the first 12 months, better than any previous Republican in their first term. Are you suggesting that if a you can identify a campaign promise that hasn’t been completed within the first year that this establishes that it was something other than God’s hand that brought Trump into office? And are you saying that there is no way for spirit filled Christians to discern between what God is doing and the anti-Christ? |
| Marc Jackson |
No I am not saying any of that This is what I am saying We were promised Wall Chicago back Companies coming back to the USReversal of gay marriage Tax relief Comprehensive immigration And so much more – I posted a comprehensive list just the other dayinstead we are getting- higher gas prices due to dumb Iran policy – high nuclear level because of some dumb twits – EU taxing Google, Apple, Facebook and more b/c of tariffs – 3 billion from China as response to the same on top of most of our external debt under fire being partially owned by them This us just in the past few weeks of 2018. What’s next? Thus far about 8% of promises have been completed. That makes 30-40% in 4 yrs. What about the rest? We have families and children and next generation to worry about dont we? |
| Bob Wizenhut |
So let me ask the question again, “what is your point?” Yes, some campaign promises weren’t completed in the first year but more has been completed in 12 months than any previous President achieved in 4 years. In fact, President Trump has become known as the first President to take promises seriously, maybe because when he was elected he didn’t owe anyone but his voters anything. |
| Marc Jackson |
Accountability! Much work needs to be done and not enough time. Much time wasted on tweeting and fulling around And let’s stop with the fake news (like the ones above pls) We’ve had presidents who signed the Constitution and won wars while Trump counted defunding the Y2K fund as one of his great accomplishments … in 2018 |
| Ira Huth |
Troy Day Chicago is not a good analogy, I lived and worked all my life in Chicago. The politics is very corrupt, very liberal in so many ways, Cook County, Chicago and some of the surrounding suburbs is so corrupt it is scary. I ought to know I was on a Suburban Police Dept. for a very, very short time, as a naive 21 year old in the 70’s.I woke up to the reality real quick on how corrupt politics can have such a strong hold in Law Enforcement in certain areas.That is probably one good reason why President Trump made a statement that he should send troops to clean up the gangs and murder rate in Chicago.. There is no way they would even think about working with a Republican President like Trump. |
| Marc Jackson |
http://www.chicagotribune.com/…/ct-met-chicago-weekend… |
| Bob Wizenhut |
Ira Huth, Robert R. Holliday, Michael Upchurch, My dad was out hiking is the remote park and his hat blew off, he reached for it and he fell into the deep ravine. He was unconscious and busted up real bad. By some freak chance these 4 hikers just happened to be coming by and saw it happened and saved his life. 4 seconds either way and they wouldn’t have seen him fall. It was by odd chance that they even stopped to hike that day. After saving my dad they went back and took pictures. You can see a visible cross where my dad landed. More than that, 7 friends had dreams and predicated that this would happen. I don’t want to go into all the detailed but there we 77 other freaky coincidences surrounding the entire event.We told our Church that it was the hand of God that our father is alive. But one sharp young man, after reading about it in the newspaper, informed us that one of the guys that saved our father was remarried.There you go. Just when we thought it was the hand of God it obviously wasn’t because God would never use someone that was remarried to save someone else’s life! |
| Michael Upchurch |
Well there you go. The Church is always right because they’ve never sinned and wouldn’t tolerate anyone who had. Thank God there are moral standards in the Church, especially leaders, that point the way to truth so we don’t fall. I thank God for the wisdom of your Church which straightened you out. I wish more church members could see our leadership NEVER fails and their moral compass ALWAYS points accurately!!! We mortal members are blessed to have Church Leaders to correct us in our frail reasonings!!! |
| Marc Jackson |
Was Trump in any of the 7 visions of the 7 dreamers. If not, they were all 7×77 times wrong #there |
| Hugh Lowrie |
Troy Day – If you believe that somehow Trump won the Presidency with the media against him, the FBI, all the money, the elites of both parties but somehow it wasn’t God… then you need to come up with a better argument than “well Trump has been married 3 times”. |
| Marc Jackson |
oh I very much believe it was God or I wouldnt have voted. We had a great discussion about the role of Trump started by Nelson Banuchi You should do well to read it BTW side note: Bob Wizenhut Hugh Lowrie did you vote for Obama and then for Trump? |
| Bob Wizenhut |
Nelson doesn’t want to talk to me anymore because he is so dejected by the fact that for 4 months now President Trump’s approval numbers have been consistently higher than President Obama’s were 8 years ago. But you know, the facts are what they are and you need to move on with your life. |
| Robert R. Holliday |
That apples to oranges analogy rates silences from me. Keep moving the goalposts. |
| Robert R. Holliday |
I will clarify one thing. I don’t hate Trump. Not at all. I pray for him. Yet, I won’t bury my head in the sand. Since the 80s I have thought Trump to be a con man. He has proven that. I have never expected the POTUS to be my pastor. Just a person of good character. I have been politically aware since Nixon. From that time to this day there have been people in that house I have not agreed with. Yet, I have never feared that we were without leadership. I have never bought up his ex-wives. You are using false moral narratives. Even if we make mistakes the bible we all say we live by requires us to admit them and keep moving. Because of your political leanings you justify everything he does. You voted for him, fine. You like him, dandy. Just stop lying for him. That’s all. Its unseemly. |
| Nelson Banuchi |
Bob Wizenhut For the record, I choose not to respond to your comments for two reasons (1) life priorities, (2) you continue make moral judgments (something Jesus warns against) by describing those who do not agree with Trump as “Trump-haters,” (which is the primary reason why I stopped responding to your comments) and (3) respectfully, you say the most ridiculous things.’nut said. |
| Michael Upchurch |
I must leave this group as I differ with so many people on here. Trump is my President, chosen of God. He is amoral. Certainly he is morally and ethically challenged, but he is my President. I voted for him and I would probably vote for him again. God, through the Holy Spirit who dwells within me, directed me to do so last election and may very well direct me to do so again. I stand by my vote and I stand by my President. The rest of you who are sinless and perfect may continue on with your discussions, but they only divide and stir controversy which Paul admonished us to avoid. I leave you in peace. I leave you with this blessing; May the Lord shine His countenance upon you. May you find mercy when you deserved otherwise. May grace be yours regardless. May Christ forgive you and lead you and may you obey. May you repent if found in error and may you prosper in all that you do. Goodnight all. |
| Hugh Lowrie |
Odd, I also remember Nelson unable to accept with the fact that President Trump’s approval rating is now consistently higher than Obama’s was 8 years ago. |
| Nelson Banuchi |
Troy Day If “it was God” relates to permission, I agree. IMO, God permitted Trump to be POTUS, as it appears, as a judgment against the nation irrespective of the economy (apparently, people voted valuing pay raises and bonuses more than truth). It’s the consequences of Trump’s presidency in the long run that concerns me. |
| Nelson Banuchi |
Hugh Lowrie If his rating is so high, it is embarrassing to me that Americans – including, conservative Christians and “far right” Christians – love a liar (among other things). |
| Hugh Lowrie |
There we go again. If we can just catch President Trump lying, even once, we will feel vindicated that he is just as dishonest as Obama and Clinton! https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=1408495729295809&set=a.788317424646979.1073741826.100004061852832&type=3&theater |
| Nelson Banuchi |
‘nuf said. |
| Marc Jackson |
Bob Wizenhut Your call to move along is surprising. Why post this post if you are just moving along? I for one am not OK with the racial segregation of the exit polls. As a white evangelical I would not be marginalized by the media. I am surprised to hear you are OK with that. Nelson Banuchi good point on judgment – God gives kings according to the nation’s own heart… |
| Bob Wizenhut |
Not sure what you are responding to. |
| Marc Jackson |
Your call to move along with our lives and disregard the obvious while diminishing its effect on the future of the Church |
| Bob Wizenhut |
Troy Day – and where did I make such a call? Help me out here. There have been a lot of comments so I don’t know what you might be referring to. |
| Marc Jackson |
Here: “you need to move on with your life.” https://www.facebook.com/…/permalink/1695968410458167/… |
| Bob Wizenhut |
Are you going back to my comments to Nelson about accepting that President Trump’s approval rates are climbing and now consistently higher than President Trump’s? That relates to a discuss a couple weeks back. Why are you trying to tie those comments to the current thread? |
| Marc Jackson |
Should EVANGELICALS who voted be worried as a sour smell of panic in the White House as the law closes in? There are several signs that the investigation of the president and the pushback against it have entered a new, more acrimonious phase. Giuliani’s media blitz gives investigators new leads, new evidence!!! |
| Bob Wizenhut |
After two years, 5 investigations there is no evidence of collusion with Russia much less evidence that President Trump or anyone close to him were involved. It now appears that Mueller has abandoned his pursuit of collusion and is now trying to trap the President in a process crime. Polls show that support for continued investigation of the President is falling while approval of the President himself is climbing and now at 50%. Those two trends appear to be connected, i.e. the investigation is fueling growing support for the President.So how should Evangelicals respond if they believe evidence indicates that the President is being investigated, not because of crimes, but because he is pushing back against the status quo, the swamp?Clearly, there is no panic at the White House. The President clearly understands that the investigation is helping him politically. |
| Marc Jackson |
Patiently wait for his lawyers archives before making such conclusions. Too much personal and paper trail there, not to mention the cash flow. The truth will come out! |
| Hugh Lowrie |
Evangelicals need to pray that truth be revealed and demand the same from our government. Regardless of whether one voted for Trump or not this investigation should be troubling to anyone that believes in the rule of law. https://www.reuters.com/…/u-s-judge-questions-special… |
| Joseph Kidwell |
Bob Wizenhut, wrong! Close to 70% of the public wants Muellar to be able to finish his investigation. Secondly, Michael Flynn has pleaded guilty to felonies along with a campaign worker. Manifort has been indicted for felonies. The investigation continues. Muellar if he is anything, is methodical. He’s simply working his way up the food chain. |
| Hugh Lowrie |
Joseph Kidwell – please keep in mind that what Flynn pleaded guilty to has nothing to do with Trump or collusion with Russia. And the judge might force Flynn to retract his guilty plea as it looks like he was coerced while going broke. |
| Hugh Lowrie |
Joseph Kidwell – Muellar’s investigation is over. He is trying to keep it going but without evidence of collusion, the courts will shut him down. https://www.reuters.com/…/u-s-judge-questions-special… |
| Joseph Kidwell |
Hugh Lowrie, LOL!!! That’s old! Ask Trump if it’s over! Ask Cohen if it’s over! Ask Flynn if it’s over! Ask Manifort if it’s over! |
| Joseph Kidwell |
Hugh Lowrie, you are just whistling by the graveyard! |
| Hugh Lowrie |
Joseph Kidwell – The President will allow the investigation to go on through November so that he can pick up 4-6 seats in the Senate. Once the mid-term election is over, the President will shut it down, and as President he has every right to do so. But the investigation is what is fueling his rise to 51% approval rating. |
| Joseph Kidwell |
Hugh Lowrie, you watch too much Fox News. His approval rating hovers around the 41% mark. Secondly, The GOP will lose the House & may lose the Senate. The Dem’s have flipped 39 seats in state, local and federal elections since Trump was elected. If the President tries that, it will trigger a Constitutional crisis and ensure his impeachment. To be brutally honest, I hope he tries it. He certainly is dumb and reckless enough to. |
| Hugh Lowrie |
Fox News? Never seen it. http://www.rasmussenreports.com/…/trum…/prez_track_may04 |
| Marc Jackson |
After the 2010 midterm elections, Silver concluded that Rasmussen’s polls were the least accurate of the major pollsters in 2010, having an average error of 5.8 points and a pro-Republican bias of 3.9 points according to Silver’s model.I am following the county primaries around here and many that I know as old republicans are putting their names on dem tickets just to win office this time (and to exonerate themselves from current republican policies). This is the South I am talking about People are just NOT happy. Common folk got conned with the tax reform and will not have it |
| Hugh Lowrie |
To date, Dems have only flipped on House seat and that was because the Dem ran as a Republican and promised to support President Trump. Analysts are projecting the GOP to pick up 7-8 Senate seats. That’s Yuge! |
| Joseph Kidwell |
Hugh Lowrie, wrong! That is unless you count being pro-union pro-Obama care “running as a Republican. |
| Hugh Lowrie |
Joseph Kidwell – you do realize that in PA President Trump did win the union vote? Bringing the jobs back to America is not an anti-union position. But that is exactly why the Republican lost. He ran away from Trump while the Dem ran to Trump. |
| Joseph Kidwell |
The GOP anti-union as is Trump. The judges like Gorsuch that he is nominating are anti-union. |
| Hugh Lowrie |
The point is that the Dems have only turned one House seat, only one, and that seat is temporary and was turned only because the Dem ran on Trump’s agenda while the Republican walked away from it. This may be the first mid term where the traditional wave doesn’t materialize. |
| Joseph Kidwell |
Hugh Lowrie, The Dem’s flipped the Senate seat in Alabama. They have flipped three seats in Florida. They came withing a coin toss of flipping the Virginia Legislature and have flipped 35 state and local seats around the country. In addition, they are outperforming in bright red areas. The Governor of Wisconsin sounded a distress alarm after the Dem’s flipped two seats there. Go ahead and keep on whistling by the graveyard! The blue wave is on it’s way.#BlueWave |
| Jan Dixon Sykes |
Historically, the other party takes Congress in The Midterms. Sure true for Obama. Obama lost over 1,000 seats of Democrats throughout America during his presidency. 35 is a good start of getting them back. |
| Hugh Lowrie |
1035 seats were lost during Obama in Congress or at the state level. But to date, the Dems have only flipped one seat. Only one. And that flip came because the Dem ran towards Trump and the Republican ran away from Trump. Analysts are suggesting that Trump will pick up 7-9 Senate seats! Think about how this bucks a well established trend. |
| Jan Dixon Sykes |
Hugh, the dems flipped AL, too. Remember the dates Roy Moore had with high school girls back in the 80s? Everyone was aghast. But not a single thing done to throw out the Congressmen who paid off “people†with OUR money to remain silent. For all we know, they paid off little boys. |
| Bob Wizenhut |
Jan, that was a Senate race and it was also surrounded by special circumstances. The fact is, the Dems have only flipped on seat and they won’t even keep that flip come November. |
| Joseph Kidwell |
When the Trumpsters no longer control the House next year and very possibly the Senate, I want to hear what you all have to say. Will Jan Dixon Sykes and Bob Wizenhut be making the accusation that millions of illegals voted? LOL!!!! |
| Marc Jackson |
Joseph Kidwell as many political topics in this group, after re-reading the discussion, it is clear it has no validity to Pentecostal Theology Truth is the percentage is much lower and has even less importance to the Pentecostal church when the “cultural Christians” factor comes in play. Clearly another media conning targeting the Church, among many others in the filed |
| Marc Jackson |
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Varnel Watson
true that Jim Price Nelson Banuchi Hugh Lowrie
Nelson Banuchi
I don’t know if that’s true, especially if the implication is that these “cultural” evangelicals who vote for Trump are not genuine believers.
I don’t see why there is the need to make such a differentiation, especially when being a Christian does not guarantee one will always or, even in the majority of cases, make the right choice (yes, I am implying that voting for Trump is the wrong choice).
Varnel Watson
Nelson Banuchi seems that it is quote true
Brady Hall
What’s your opinion on Kim Clement’s prophecy?
Hugh Lowrie
The more pertinent question that people are asking today is why only 81% of Evangelicals voted for Donald Trump. If Evangelicals had made a list of Evangelical policy positions prior to President Trump running, President Trump’s stated positions were closer to that list than Romney or either Bush. And, the opposition candidate was considered more evil than any prior opposition candidate. Yet support for Donald Trump was barely better than what Governor Romney received. Why? Because not all Evangelicals were comfortable with Donald Trump’s style.
But why, exactly, weren’t Evangelicals comfortable with the President’s style? Researchers have found that Evangelicals have chickified Jesus. Research shows that when Evangelicals are presented a list of feminine traits such as love, harmony and nurturing beside a separate list of masculine traits such as leadership, assertiveness, confrontational, etc. that 80% of Evangelicals select the list of feminine traits as better fitting of their idea of Jesus than the masculine traits. Why? Because they have developed a cultural view of Jesus that just doesn’t square with Scripture.
Now, nearly 3 years into President Trump, Evangelicals are starting to reevaluate how they feel about President Trump. They are starting to remember Jesus chasing the money changers out of the outer court with a whip, Jesus calling the Pharisees a brood of vipers, and Jesus refusing to feed a hungry crowd that was demanding to be feed a second miraculous meal.
My prediction is that in 2020, 85% of Evangelicals will vote for President Trump, demonstrating that there are fewer cultural Evangelicals than the press would have us believe.
https://bltnotjustasandwich.com/2016/04/16/repost-the-feminization-of-the-church/
Varnel Watson
the 81% of Evangelicals was proven fake news
Hugh Lowrie
Troy Day – I know many people had a hard time believing that only 81% of Evangelicals voted for President Trump. Either way, I’m confident that he’ll have a wider margin on Evangelicals in 2020 and certainly more than a mere 8% of black voters.
Varnel Watson
the 81% of Evangelicals was fake news – proven
Hugh Lowrie
It’s not fake news that President Trump has tripled his approval rating with black voters since being elected.
Jeanette Elizondo
Guess I’m One !!
Hugh Lowrie
one what?
Jeanette Elizondo
Are u being SMART !! I voted for Trump !!
Varnel Watson
Jeanette Elizondo you are the one voted Trump?
Louise Cummings
I suppose that’s true. It means God has to awaken their Spirit.
Varnel Watson
whats your take on this Jim Price Link Hudson
Varnel Watson
are they racist too? Nelson Banuchi Jim Price
Nelson Banuchi
I have no idea.
Varnel Watson
its been a trend lately as it seems Jim Price did you delete your article/
Jim Price
Yes; I shared it in one of those moments when I like to create discussion. Boy did it bring in new voices that I haven’t noticed before. Didn’t mean to cause a fuss.
Varnel Watson
Jim Price IMO it is pretty bad that so many NEVER comment on a theological issue but jump on any Trump train
Nelson Banuchi
Troy Day Talking about Trump is somehow more fun… (not that I don’t enjoy theology, but Trump is kind of leisure after the hard thinking theology entails).
Varnel Watson
Nelson Banuchi thats because you are a trumpoholic 🙂
Nelson Banuchi
Troy Day Must be in my kool-aid…
Varnel Watson
Hugh Lowrie Axios was the only media that wrongly noted that Trump got 81% of the evangelical vote in 2016, and the evangelical community is close to 25% of the entire American electorate. A campaign advisor told Axios, “There is a significant evangelical outreach effort. It’s going to be state specific. It’s going to exist in important battleground states and focus on churches and areas where we can have an impact. African American outreach will be a component of that. … It’s robust, and it will be well-funded.”
A campaign official stated to Axios, “In 2016, it was more of a surrogate driven, PR-driven type thing. This is about finding voters. That’s why a lot of our efforts are going toward collecting data at rallies, collecting data over peer-to-peer texting, and collecting data within our coalition groups.”
Varnel Watson
Hugh Lowrie Nelson Banuchi I NOW challenge your false stance that 81% voted for Trump – inflated made up numbers
As many as 61 percent of the evangelicals voted this election, followed by notional Christians (59 percent), and born again non-evangelical Christians (58 percent). During the 2012 elections, 59 percent of the evangelicals voted, while born again non-evangelical Christians came out in slightly higher proportion (60 percent). Only 55 percent of the notional Christians had voted at that time.
Indeed, if we add in the number of non-white evangelicals (about 20 percent), the number of evangelicals ineligible to vote because of a felony conviction (since 28.9 percent of Americans identify as evangelical and 6.5 million Americans have a felony conviction, we can estimate that nearly 1.7 million would be ineligible), the number of “culturally Christian” voters who identified as evangelical, and so on, the actual number of evangelical Trump voters would be even lower, likely between one-third (roughly 35 percent) and two-fifths (about 40 percent).
SOURCE PEW RESEARCH
https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2016/11/09/how-the-faithful-voted-a-preliminary-2016-analysis/
Nelson Banuchi
Troy Day I’m in the 19% who didn’t and never will…
Varnel Watson
Nelson Banuchi plus the other 25% who did but never will again
Nelson Banuchi
Troy Day cool… nice to be in a crowd, even if we gotta squeeze in a narrow road.
Alexander Sanya
I know for a fact that this not true. I know many Spirit-filled, fruit-bearing men of God who voted for him. And no scribbles on Facebook will convince me that they are “cultural” evangelicals.
Come on. This is nonsense. Let God deal with your own heart before casting stones at others.
Varnel Watson
Alexander Sanya Hugh Lowrie Nelson Banuchi
Many cultural Christians who never go to church identify as ‘evangelical’ or ‘born-again.’
Polling companies aren’t to blame for how respondents answer questions about their religious identity. Still, any poll or survey that merely asks someone to identify as “evangelical” or “born-again” without any additional clarifying questions should be viewed with skepticism.
To the media, such distinctions may be unimportant. But if we are seeking a fair and accurate representation of actual evangelicals, it’s important to distinguish them from those who do not truly subscribe to evangelical beliefs and practices.
Indeed, if we add in the number of non-white evangelicals (about 20 percent), the number of evangelicals ineligible to vote because of a felony conviction (since 28.9 percent of Americans identify as evangelical and 6.5 million Americans have a felony conviction, we can estimate that nearly 1.7 million would be ineligible), the number of “culturally Christian” voters who identified as evangelical, and so on, the actual number of evangelical Trump voters would be even lower, likely between one-third (roughly 35 percent) and two-fifths (about 40 percent).
Jim Price
Over the years I have read several books telling about how the mind of the evangelicals have been won over, starting around 1980. Lee Atwater & Newt after him found the key words to persuade and as they say the rest is history. I noticed in the post that I shared that many called on Romans 13 to justify voting for and supporting Trump. That same group would not have used Romans 13 to justify Obama. Over the years I have tried to think about Romans 13 and Hitler but never found an answer.
Varnel Watson
The exit poll conflates ‘evangelical’ and ‘born-again.’
For more than a decade, observers of religion in America have attempted to point out to both media and pollsters that the terms “evangelical” and “born-again” are not synonymous. It’s a subtle, but substantial, distinction: While almost all evangelicals would describe themselves as “born-again,” not all who identify as a born-again Christian would say they are evangelical. For example, some Mormons even consider themselves to be “born again Chrisitians,” yet no evangelicals (that I’ve ever known) would consider Mormonism a branch of evangelicalism.
Yet on this exit poll voters could choose to identify as a “white evangelical or white born-again Christian.” Because the two groups have been lumped together into one category, it’s impossible to determine how many non-evangelical, born-again Christians are being counted.
Varnel Watson
Link Hudson I think I figured out why you stay away from political discussions on democracy here
Varnel Watson
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/kill-them-all-iowa-professor-resigns-after-his-comments-about-evangelicals-revealed?fbclid=IwAR38X8UQNVQFgH3CVnZL-wQW_8DHLHCn3jy5hxlKLIEo1Wmyuyrrf4fyUz0
Varnel Watson
this is SO true right about now Nelson Banuchi the same ones who are shutting churches down every day now
The Acceptance of False Prophecies about Trump | Pentecostal Theology
[…] ONLY cultural Evangelicals vote for Trump […]
Donald Trump’s Presidency and False Prophecy
This Article was mentioned on pentecostaltheology.com
Anonymous
Presidential debate
Five Republicans have qualified for the third 2024 presidential debate set for Wednesday in Miami. They are former New Jersey Gov. Chris Christie, Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis, former South Carolina Gov. Nikki Haley, entrepreneur Vivek Ramaswamy and South Carolina Sen. Tim Scott. Missing from the debate stage will be North Dakota Gov. Doug Burgum and former Arkansas Gov. Asa Hutchinson, who both failed to meet the criteria. Former Vice President Mike Pence, who qualified for the first two debates, dropped out of the Republican primary last month. Donald Trump, the front-runner, is skipping the debate as he did the two previous ones. He is slated to host a rally in South Florida as counterprogramming instead. https://www.cnn.com/2023/11/07/us/5-things-to-know-for-nov-7-trump-trial-israel-presidential-debate-actors-strike-ukraine/index.html
Anonymous
Trump Leads in 5 Critical States as Voters Blast Biden https://www.usnews.com/news/national-news/articles/2023-11-02/trump-condemns-efforts-to-remove-him-from-the-ballot-under-insurrection-clause