Practical application of Pentecostal theology in politics, economy and social issues
If You are “Left Behind”
can you still be saved?
Hebrews 5:1-4 “For every high priest taken from among men is appointed for men in things pertaining to God, that he may offer both gifts and sacrifices for sins. 2 He can have compassion on those who are ignorant and going astray, since he himself is also subject to weakness. 3 Because of this he […]
The post Hebrews Study: Jesus, Our Compassionate High Priest :: By Sean Gooding appeared first on Rapture Ready.
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via Michael Theade
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2 Thess 2:11,12
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When the Church is full, the Church is full. It’s a matter of faith. If one believes because one sees the Church is full, then one must also come to realize that without faith, it is impossible to please God.
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Depends. Left behind from what? Saved from who?
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Yes
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Yes. It won’t be easy, but yes. Once the hand of the Holy Spirit is removed from the Earth, then Satan will work hard to keep you from God. People will get saved during the end times. They will be martyred. Those will become the Souls Under the Altar.
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Yes but will be hard
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Yes, it is still possible to be saved, but the best time to be saved is NOW not then!
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yes, but it will cost you your life!
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Although the short answer may be yes, I tell people if you won’t come to the Lord now while the Holy Spirit is urging you to come and be saved then what makes you think you can when the Holy Spirit is taken back up with the Church and is no longer pleading with you?
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I let people think whatever they want anymore
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No, Jesus returns at on the last day, not 7 years prior. If you miss the resurrection of the just its over
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Yes they can but they may have thei heads chopped off in the mean time. martyred tribulations saints. during the tribulations – they wash their robes – they were dirty – they missed the rapture. tribulation period caused them to wash them. they go up at some point during or after the tribulation. Rev 7:9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;
Rev 7:10 And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb.
Rev 7:11 And all the angels stood round about the throne, and about the elders and the four beasts, and fell before the throne on their faces, and worshipped God,
Rev 7:12 Saying, Amen: Blessing, and glory, and wisdom, and thanksgiving, and honour, and power, and might, be unto our God for ever and ever. Amen.
Rev 7:13 And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?
Rev 7:14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
Rev 7:15 Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them.
Rev 7:16 They shall hunger no more, neither thirst any more; neither shall the sun light on them, nor any heat.
Rev 7:17 For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes.
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What’s your thoughts on this?
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Yes
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No one is left behind
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Possible – but two very BIG problems: [1] The Holy Spirit will not be calling, infilling, and working with mankind as He is now. So if you can’t live for Christ now … [2] The 70th Week of Daniel is all about Israel and Jerusalem. Gentile salvations will be very few and far between. Why take the chance, why wait: Now is the Day of salvation! Repent, Trust in Jesus Now, and live for Him everyday for the rest of your life or the Rapture, whichever comes first.
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If you think you get to go up seven years before Jesus comes back, can you go up seven years before the rapture?
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Now is the time
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Angels wouldn’t be preaching the gospel if you couldn’t and if the church were still here Rev 14:6-7
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Amen
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IF You are still here during the Tribulation you have been LEFT BEHIND IF so pls turn all requests to Link Hudson who has volunteered to moderate this group during the Tribulation Thanks
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Doctrines like the Trinity and the Rapture have just enough vagueness left in them so that only people with faith can see them…!
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Where were you left?
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One guy said he liked ‘Left Behind’ so much he got it tatooed on his ‘right behind.’
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If you can’t live for Jesus now why do you think that you can make it thru tribulation?
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Presuming a pre-tribulation rapture.
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That’s a good question. My feeling is that if you can’t do it now , then how are you going to make it after the Rapture ? It will be much harder
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Re: If you are left behind could you still be saved
It appears so, otherwise, why would the angel preach repentance?
Revelation 14:6 New King James Version (NKJV)
6 Then I saw another angel flying in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach to those who dwell on the earth—to every nation, tribe, tongue, and people— 7 saying with a loud voice, “Fear God and give glory to Him, for the hour of His judgment has come; and worship Him who made heaven and earth, the sea and springs of water.”
Why would you need an angel to preach if the church has to go through the tribulation( as some believe)?
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The rapture is what rapture does
Dont get left behind
That’s all
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Yes if you don’t take the mark of the beast. If you take the mark you are doomed. Better to let the behead you than take the mark of the beast. The Tribulations will last seven years. It called Jacobs trouble. It’s possible the antichrist may not cause you to take until the middle. Not sure. But at the end of the Tribulations Jesus will open the Heavens. He will come back to earth the second time. The first His Birth where he grew up and died on the cross , shed His Blood. That we could believe He is the Son Of God , that takes away the sins of everyone could be saved.
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The BIBLE says that the Anti Christ will make war with the Saints
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Yes you can. Not every believer is raptured. Only those who were holy or those who had made the ultimate sacrifice for the Lord.
As for all the rest who have not pressed on to perfection
Re 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
Notice who is included in the first resurrection? Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection:
So if you want to be in the rapture, then plan on either being perfected before hand (Blessed and holy is he), or having your head lopped off.
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Only those who were holy is about right Link Hudson Just read Mt 24 IT tells you the timing right on 🙂
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A lot of pretribbers would get left behind because of their pridefulness and smugness about their rapture theology. But that is okay, as they will get left behind anyway since the rapture happens at the end of the Tribulation. They will have time to repent if they don’t get caught up in a prolonged 7 year whine about it not being fair that they did not get to go up early. Better to let that go, and get out and start saving lost souls while there is still time.
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I pray the Lord will show honest understanding The Lord hearted people the truth. You really hadn’t studied it out good or you would not want to be here. What I’m afraid of if we are not careful they will try to slip in the mark on problem. What I mean by that. They have already gots chip. About the size of a grain of rice. They have already tried on a bid factory workers up in the Northern State one of them. I can’t remember. But what I do remember it passed in that state they could use the chip in your right hand or your fore head. You wouldn’t need any more cards to use. This chip teal amass , would have all your information you would need. They was putting in the right hand or the four head. They came to one man and he refused it. They told him you are fired. He told them. You can’t fire me for standing for my religious freedom. So they couldn’t fire him. But it’s coming to a time if you hadn’t already been Raptured before that passes. You can’t buy anything or sell anything without. People will take it not knowing about these thing. Because they hadn’t read the Bible. You will either starve to death or they will behead you. For the Jews. God is going to make a way for the Jews because of the way they have always been treated Himself. But He died on the Cross to save us from sin. The Jews didn’t understand.you can take your choice. Believe the word that He is gong to Rapture the Christians before that time. Or just be an unbeliever and stay here and the Bible says it will be times like you have never seen before. Or will never be again. The only thing that will be worse is hell itself. I pray God will let you and others that believes this way. God give them a vision to know. Before the Time happens. And I believe I could be written you this letter. Because time is short.
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The Bible says God will tell the Jews to flee to the Mountains. Don’t even come down off your house tops to get anything. Just run to the Mountains. Som believes it will be Petra. Many rocks there. A city of rocks. I’ve heard that the tribe that lived there , I can’t remember right now. But there was only one way up. If the antichrist is coming up. They could be seen and be destroyed. Of course the antichrist will be sitting on the temple throne anyway. He always wanted to be God. But there’s no way he will ever be God. So he will act like Him in as many ways as he can. But he will never be. But he won’t stop trying. I’m so slow in writing. Sometimes I wish we had a way for open discussions. But I was telling about the Jews going to the Mountains for safety. And the Bible says one Hundred and fourth four thousand Jews will be sealed that can’t be hurt during the Tribulations. You say why Jews. Because when He came as a Baby , born I Bethlehem Of Judea. The Jews didn’t believe that Jesus was the Son Of God. They was deceived. But they believed in God and He was going to send a Messiah to deliver. When they thought the antichrist was him. They found out they were wrong. That’s why the Bible says all of Israel will be saved is because they believe in Him now.
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You will be here for the great tribulation Louise Cummings. You are trusting in a phantom promise.
The only way that it could be pre-trib is if the Bible is wrong. That cannot be.
Follow along here.
We are told when the rapture happens.
1Co 15:51 ¶ Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
It happens at the last trump. That prompts a question. How many trumpets are after the LAST trump? There are NONE after the last trump.
Here is where it gets down and dirty. In Mt 24, there is the overview to the end times. Reading down through the overview, we do not see any mention of the rapture until we get to verse 30.
Mt 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
Here is the rapture. The sign of the Lord appears in heaven, the whole world will see the son of man coming. There’s the clouds, the power, and the glory.
We have angels, and we have the trumpet. The angels gather together the elect from the four winds (that is the earth), and from one end of heaven to the other (that is resurrection).
So here is the rapture described, but WHEN DOES THAT OCCUR. We are told when it occurs in verse 29.
Mt 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
It happens after the tribulation. You might want to argue that it is another tribulation, but not the Great Tribulation. You would be wrong.
Mt 24: 21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
22 And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect’s sake those days shall be shortened.
I asked you about how many trumpets are after the last trumpet. The reason I did was because that was the question the Lord posed to me. I used to be a pre-tribber. The first book I read as a believer was Hal Lindseys’ Late Great Planet Earth. I was a gung ho pre-tribber
Then one day the Lord spoke to me and said “How many trumpets are after the LAST trump?” I was stunned. I hemmed and hawed but had to finally admit that after the last trump. there are no more trumpets.
The fact that there is a rapture event described, including a TRUMPET, after the end of the tribulation left me without question convinced that the rapture could only occur at the end. The fact that there is a trumpet after the great tribulation rules out pre-trib entirely.
There are other verses, too.
2Th 2:1 ¶ Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
3 ¶ Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
We are told that the day of the Lord cannot come until after the anti-Christ is revealed.
Da 7:20 And of the ten horns that were in his head, and of the other which came up, and before whom three fell; even of that horn that had eyes, and a mouth that spake very great things, whose look was more stout than his fellows.
21 I beheld, and the same horn made war with the saints, and prevailed against them;
22 Until the Ancient of days came, and judgment was given to the saints of the most High; and the time came that the saints possessed the kingdom.
The ancient of days is Jesus. Before He can come, the anti-Christ makes war on the saints, AND OVERCOMES THEM.
Louise Cummings, you had better get your faith off of the great escape, and put it on
Mt 10:22 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name’s sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved.
The tribulation is Jesus determining those who are worthy of Him – the judgment of the church.
Mt 10:34 Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword.
35 For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.
36 And a man’s foes shall be they of his own household.
37 He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.
38 And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.
39 He that findeth his life shall lose it: and he that loseth his life for my sake shall find it.
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Seems like lots of people are planing to be left behind – not Pentecostal
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I for one am not planning on being left behind.
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if you can’t, what will the 144,000 be doing?
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Clarence Bro Cope:
Follow along here.
We are told when the rapture happens.
1Co 15:51 ¶ Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
It happens at the last trump. That prompts a question. How many trumpets are after the LAST trump? There are NONE after the last trump.
Rico :
Actually, there are 8 trumps that will come after the last trump of 1 Cor. 15: 51
The last trump of 1 Cor. 15:51 fulfills Jesus promise of escape and to stand before Him ( Lk. 21:36) and to fulfill His word of coming to get us to live in His Fathers House ( Jn.14:1-3)
After the last trump of 1 Cor.15:51 you have the 7 trumps of Revelation and finally, you have the eighth trump, that comes after the tribulation to gather the Israelite people back to their homeland as promised by God.
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Back in my new convert days (1970’s) the preacher would say you’ll die by beheading or starve to death or die from persecution because you refuse to take the Mark…Jack Chick comics helped drive the point home.
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If you are left behind you will have to deal with it big time
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If the Lord does not come back before the Tribulation, then you will not have to worry bout being ‘left behind’ because everybody will still be here. It is not biblical to say that because one does not ‘believe’ in a pretrib rapture, he does not ‘believe’ in Jesus and is not saved. I am a believer, and believe exactly what he said in MAT 24: “Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His [d]elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.”
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Gary Micheal Epping your comment make no sense.
You said you have to believe in a pretrib rapture to be saved and then posted a passage of scripture that plainly states the rapture is “immediately after the tribulation”
Sounds to me you are not only very confused but have also made an idol out of the pretrib doctrine.
I question your salvation
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Gary Micheal Epping, Jerome Herrick Weymouth has pointed out to me that you are actually post trib and I did find that comment. Can you explain your last commwbt please?
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I’m pretty sure we will be dead in our graves and resurrected by the time the millennial kingdom is ushered in and returning from the marriage supper of the lamb with the lamb upon a stunned world
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Historically speaking in the church, pre-tribulation and a post-tribulation views have flip-flopped during different periods of church history. One thing is sure, pre-tribulation people are more heavenly minded and the post-tribulation people are more earthly minded.
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Historically speaking the 1st century church fathers were all post trib believers
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my question to you dear brothers and sisters , are you preparing to hand off the gospel to the next generation ?
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The belief in the pre-trib rapture tells God who loves Him as they should, or those who do not want to suffer for the Lord’s sake. Those who are believing for an out are in for a huge surprise:
The rapture can only come after the anti-Christ is revealed.
2Th 2:3 ¶ Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
2Th 2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
People who value their own comfort, pleasure, and ease more than God, as evidenced by their belief that God will not allow them to be persecuted, will get a strong delusion that they will believe a lie, that they might be damned.
It is only the church of Philadelphia that has a specific promise of escape.
Re 3:10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.
But even that does not say they will be taken out, but that the hour of temptation won’t touch them.
The hour of temptation is set to come upon who?
come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.
That, except for the church of Philadelphia means everybody.
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Clarence Bro Cope tell your interpretation to the churches in China, Sudan, Pakistan who are currently going through severe persecution and they will laugh at your claim about
those who do not want to suffer for the Lord’s sake.
because they ALL believe and confess pre-Trib rapture
Historically the post-Trib rapture and post – mil in general has been associated with wealthy churches protected by the secular state
No persecuted church has ever prayed Lord give us more persecution
And also the Biblical mandate
When the Bible says I will SAVE You from the hour of tribulation / persecution and people say oh no we want to go through it WELL guess what you are getting? – what you prayed for
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It has exposed to the judgment of God just who is a truly committed believer. Wanting to escape rather than to suffer for His sake shows your true nature. It is still dominated by sin.
Mt 10:38 And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me.
39 He that findeth his life shall lose it: and he that loseth his life for my sake shall find it.
All those who look for the rapture and escape from God’s perfecting work are not worthy of Jesus. You seek to preserve your life, so you will lose it.
God is not interested in making you comfortable. He is focused on perfecting you, not keeping you out of suffering. It is through suffering that we are perfected. Even as it was suffering that perfected Jesus, so must it be for us.
Your belief in the pre-trib lie will cost you eternity.
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Sure – persecution is already doing that – what’s the point of testing them through a satanic tribulation intended for the world?
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Check with the Bible on the Rapture. See if you want to change it. I want it like. God said it.
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We could go through much percussions. But the Bible says He won’t cause us to suffer above that what we are able. But will make a way of escape for them all. Thank
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I guess you are seeing your point of view. I look at the Bible’s point of view.
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Link Hudson :
Notice the ‘day and hour’ verse comes after the tribulation is all over, AFTER the gathering.
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
Rico:
Hey Link, You are looking at this wrong. The sun be darkened and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heaven shall be shaken are events taking place during the tribulation, not after( you agree?). Jesus returns- His second coming, immediately after the tribulation of those days ( of the tribulation ) when the events described in verse 29 will take place. And then ( immediately after the tribulation) shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then ( when shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven), all the tribes of the earth ( most likely that are at Armageddon) mourn because they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and glory.
Link:
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:
33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.
34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.
35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.
36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.
Rico :
And ( immediately after the tribulation when He is seen in the clouds and seen on the mount of olives ( Zech 14:4) and has defeated Antichrist , He shall send His angels with a great sound of the trumpet , and they shall gather ( not rapture) his elect– the Jews as promised :
Deuteronomy 30:4 King James Version (KJV)
4 If any of thine be driven out unto the outmost parts of heaven, from thence will the Lord thy God gather thee, and from thence will he fetch thee:
Note: gather
Isaiah 11:11-12 King James Version (KJV)
11 And it shall come to pass in that day, that the Lord shall set his hand again the second time to recover the remnant of his people, which shall be left, from Assyria, and from Egypt, and from Pathros, and from Cush, and from Elam, and from Shinar, and from Hamath, and from the islands of the sea.
12 And he shall set up an ensign for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth.
Note : from the four corners of the earth. What you say Clarence Bro Cope, did I get it right ?
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Yes
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Link Hudson has been close to the Tribulation All he had to do is go to China and enjoy some trib. as we speak 🙂
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Jerome Herrick Weymouth, Re: taste of the tribulation, yes, it will be awful , that is why I will do what Jesus says –to watch and pray to escape the tribulation,Luke 21:36 New International Version (NIV)
36 Be always on the watch, and pray that you may be able to escape all that is about to happen, and that you may be able to stand before the Son of Man.”
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You don’t have to go to China to experience persecution. Take your Bible under your arm, go out to any high school or college, find a sidewalk with foot traffic, then lift up your voice and proclaim that they must repent or they will perish. Believe me you will know persecution.
But you would not do that would you. You are more interested in your sin, your pleasure, your reputation, your ease.
Mt 16:25 For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it.
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I think so, but I’m certainly not going to take a chance on it! DEW
Varnel Watson
not planing to be here Terry Wiles should ask Link Hudson
Terry Wiles
Troy Day I won’t be left behind.
Link Hudson
A better question might be could you be tempted to take the mark of the beast because you wrongly belived pretrib, even though Paul taught the rapture and resurrection at Christ’s coming, not 7 years before it?
Terry Wiles
Link Hudson are you in one of those weed approved States. Something is clouding your thinking. As your faith is…
Varnel Watson
well Terry in case some of your members wish to stay behind you can appoint Link as your post-trib replacement
Terry Wiles
Troy Day I don’t know anyone that wants to stay behind…
Link Hudson
Terry Wiles I’ve never smoked pot or taken illegal mind altering drugs.
It’s not about what you and I believe. It’s about what the Bibel teaches. If you can show where the Bible teaches a pre-trib rapture, go ahead and show me. I let go of my pre-trib beliefs when I realized I couldn’t find the teaching in the Bible and began to see all the Biblical evidence against it.
Paul shows us in I Thessalonians 4 that the rapture occurs at the parousia. In II Thesalonians 2:8, the man of sin is destroyed by the brightness of the Lord’s parousia. In the pre-trib scenario, the man of sin is not even supposed to be revealed yet, before the rapture. It doesn’t add up. In I Corinthians 15, we read that the dead are made alive at Jesus’ coming. In pre-trib, the dead in Christ are ade alive 7 years before His coming. it doesn’t add up. Then, there is no pretrib rapture listed in the book of Revelation. One is taken and the other left after the coming of Christ, after the tribulation in Matthew 24.
Too much evidence against it. None for it, except the preacher said so, and the ability of some to go through mental gymnastics to create explanations to try to make certain passages fit with pre-trib.
Varnel Watson
high time you learn what parousia means
Link Hudson
Troy Day Hmmm. Do you know what it means? When we discussed this in the past, you referred me to links of several opinions on the topic, and acted as if you proved something.
Varnel Watson
I actually do – has it been 2 weeks since the last time I told you? Wait – it actually has been. Do I need remind you again? Maybe this time you would grasp the Biblical meaning?
Link Hudson
Troy Day Maybe you posted something and I missed it. Maybe a link to a link burried in your website. But it seems to me that you may be pretending you actually posted something on what parousia means.
So far, it seems like your posts are to link to something long (e.g. a B-Greek conversation where pre-tribbers are straining to figure out a way to make parousia passages fit with pre-trib) or links to a book to buy. That is not an answer from my perspective. It kind of seems like you might be pretending you posted some of your actual words on the topic in the past.
Again, maybe you actually wrote something on here in the past and I did not catch it. But I haven’t seen it. Or maybe you posted something you thought was relevant and it did not seem relevant enough to me for me to percieve it as an answer.
I’ve challenged you a number of times on this issue, btw, and I am still waiting for your response. I’d like to do so– something succinct in your own words, not a link to a book on Amazon or a link to multiple opinions in a discussion you did not participate in.
I’m half expecting to hear crickets chirping again as the response.
Varnel Watson
IF you dont believe the sinners prayer
Dont believe in divine sanctification
Dont believe in tongues as initial evidence
Dont belive in pre-trib rapture
Well, you may want to start thinking what are you gonna believe when you get LEFT BEHIND
Link Hudson
What early Pentecostals believed in getting saved by repeating a sinner’s prayer?
I believe in sanctification. I don’t see evidence that it is a one-time, once-for-all event in scripture, except for what happens at salvation.
Show one shred of evidence that Jesus or the apostles believed in a pre-tribulational rapture of the church. I’ve shown plenty against that idea.
Philip Williams
Were those left behind in Sodom and in Noah’s day saved?
Link Hudson
Where does ‘left behind’ come from? Is it relevant to point out that ‘one shall be taken and another left’ occurs “AFTER THE TRIBULATION” in the Matthew 24 narrative?
Varnel Watson
https://me.me/i/the-daly-toow-some-cruise-it-rained-for-the-entire-5338895
Rick Warner
The 7 yr Tribulation, those that accept Christ will be with HIM in His 2nd coming…BUT they will endure the tribulations of the 7 years
George Hartwell
If the Tribulation in Matthew 24 was the destruction of Jerusalem it was a long time ago and our founders got snatched away to avoid that tribulation. Next question?
Varnel Watson
and IF it was NOT?
George Hartwell
Neither Jesus or John taught all this stuff about raptures and tribulations. It is imposed on the manuscript. Take note that when Jesus said you will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of glory it was a direct reference to Daniel 7 and the Son of Man was coming to the Ancient of Days to be enthroned and after that, the Kingdom was given to the saints. With Jesus firmly enthroned in heaven the saints on earth have access to kingdom gifts, guidance and authority to do what Jesus did and when people are healed to declare, like Jesus did, that the kingdom of heaven is at hand. Thus at Pentecost, when the Holy Spirit was given to the church, Jesus came again and was now birthed into every Spirit-filled believer. The ‘return of Jesus (IMHO) is his return to power and authority which is manifested on earth as a regime change and a new age when Satan is defeated and the church empowered. Jesus is now manifest in each one of us and His Kingdom manifested through each of us. Radiate Jesus. You are His ambassador.
Philip Williams
George Hartwell whoever has a light needs to shine it. World is getting very dark.
Link Hudson
George Hartwell we wait the resurrection. Paul taught that. The apostles taught the return of Christ. Look at Jesus’ words in Acts 1. It was not for the apostles to know when the Lord would restore the kingdom to Israel.
George Hartwell
Of course not ‘restore the kingdom of Israel’ as they were still thinking in terms of the old religious system. It would fall away as the new community replaced it. We now are the kingdom restorers going by Daniel and how Jesus empowered his 12 disciples as in ‘You feed them.’
Link Hudson
George Hartwell the restoration of Israel was prophesied. Israel is blinded in part for a time now, enemies for your sakes but beloved for the sakes of the fathers. That describes unbelieving Jews.
Philip Williams
Link Hudson Israel are those ruled by the king of Israel, who acknowledge him as their king. Now who might that be?
Varnel Watson
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nkkgLJtJtQI
Varnel Watson
The only problem with ultra preterism is THAT it cant place the 1000 years Kingdom properly in history so ends up either removing it from Rev 20 of the Bible or having to admit merge between church and state under Constantine… not to mention the AntiChrist
Louise Cummings
I think yes but my belief. It will cost your life. But that’s better than going to hell forever. Some people thinks they will get to see the Lord come at the Second Coming. I’m planning on following Him on White horses. When He Comes back to Earth. Because by the help , and I one of those that prays Lord help me to be counted worthy to go with you in the Rapture. I want every spot or wrinkle to be covered in The Precious Blood Of the Lamb.
Varnel Watson
if you get left behind you will be exactly that – left behind https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nkkgLJtJtQI
Larry Ray Talley
I just want to go in the first load!
George Hartwell
Stay and plant a tree!
Louise Cummings
Larry Ray Talley you can’t plant trees after you die. There’s going to be a Resurrection.Jesu said when He was ascending , going back to the Father. If I go away Will come back and receive you onto mMyself. That where I Am you can be also. And He will redirect the dead , that are Christians will rise first. And we which Re alive , that’s Christians. He said we would be changed , in a moment, in a Twinkling Of an eye. And be caught up,to meet the Lord in the air. So shall we ever be with Him. But the rest of the dead will no ride, until the thousand years has passed. Then the Lord will rise to stand before the Lord , to be judged with the devil and his angels. And will be cast into hell with a live body to burn forever. Look in Revelation chapter 20:-1.-15.
Louise Cummings
Larry Ray Talley k
George Hartwell
No on e is going anywhere. We are to be stewards of the Kingdom of God here. Lets get to work. Don’t think escape, think engage.
Larry Ray Talley
It is interesting how theological types come across as having so much animosity for others who do not agree with them. Whenever the church is or is not “Raptured” or “caught up” (and I hope its pre-trib), we must have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ and manifest His love for one another. That is my main goal in this life!! BTW, all my trees have died. I hope that’s not a profetic sign!!
Varnel Watson
true Larry Ray Talley but the question as posed by George Hartwell is
are we staying here taking over this world for JESUS
OR as going to heaven as Link Hudson ones asked
Larry Ray Talley
Right. Well, I’m sure any argument I can share will be picked apart by men much smarter than I. So let me just submit that in every case I have read about, God has always delivered, at the least, a remnant of His people before judgement. The Great Tribulation is definitely judgement and I believe it is consistent that His people, the Church, will be “caught up” first, as described in 1 Thes 4:13-18.
Louise Cummings
I will agree. When the Bible says it. You can stand on it. He says He’s the unloveable Rock. And no one standing on The Rock , Jesus Christ , shall not be moved. And He will deliver again. Keep standing on the Rock. It’s probably someone whose trying to get you to see deeper. Because we can be shown some things , we never thought of before. The Lord showed me some things the other day. I have never thought of before. Same Word. Same meaning , but He showed me some deeper things. That’s probably the reason you think you have been picked apart. Just ash The Lord if He trying to show you some deeper. Of course I don’t know the situation.
Larry Ray Talley
Louise Cummings. I pray for a deeper understanding.
Varnel Watson
as well as we all should – just a closer walk…
Louise Cummings
I know you do. And just keep standing on the Solid Rock.
Louise Cummings
Larry Ray Talley
George Hartwell
There is no such thing as left behind. The earth is the Lord’s and the fullness thereof. We are stewards of the earth. There is work to do. Be faithful and not a deserter (even mentally).
Philip Williams
George Hartwell “The heaven, even the heavens, are the Lord’s: but the earth hath he given to the children of men.” Psalms 115:16 KJV
Philip Williams
George Hartwell Once, God destroyed the earth, and
“Through these the world of that time perished when it was flooded. By the same word, the present heavens and earth are stored up for fire, being kept for the day of judgment and destruction of the ungodly.” 2 Peter 3:6-7
Philip Williams
George Hartwell
Man intends to save the planet.
God intends to destroy it.
Varnel Watson
Mt 24 clearly says there is such thing as left behind
Philip Williams
Troy Day In the days of Noah and the day of judgment of Sodom, there were certainly many who were left behind.
Jesus tells us to remember Lot’s wife. He also compared his Coming to the days of Noah.
George Hartwell
Philip Williams And what about the New Earth?
Philip Williams
George Hartwell
A new creation. Not a restored old creation.
Philip Williams
George Hartwell But here is just where so many evangelical theologians including the young earth Creationists miss it. They suppose it a return to the old creation prior to Adam’s Fall.
George Hartwell
Philip Williams How do you know? Did God give up on the creation? No. Is God unable to redeem the old? No! Not new as in renewed? God had to start over?
Varnel Watson
says this earth and sky shall all burn
Philip Williams
George Hartwell Yes, God did indeed start over with Jesus, the Last Adam. Not renewed. New!
Philip Williams
“Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, the new creation has come: The old has gone, the new is here!” 2 Corinthians 5:17
Philip Williams
“For since death came through a man, the resurrection of the dead comes also through a man. For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive.
So it is written: “The first man Adam became a living being”; the last Adam, a life-giving spirit. The spiritual did not come first, but the natural, and after that the spiritual. The first man was of the dust of the earth; the second man is of heaven. As was the earthly man, so are those who are of the earth; and as is the heavenly man, so also are those who are of heaven. And just as we have borne the image of the earthly man, so shall we bear the image of the heavenly man. I declare to you, brothers and sisters, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable. Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed— in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. For the perishable must clothe itself with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality. When the perishable has been clothed with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality, then the saying that is written will come true: “Death has been swallowed up in victory.””
1 Corinthians 15:21-22, 45-54
George Hartwell
Why not the earth?
Philip Williams
George Hartwell Dust thou art. To dust thou will return.
Philip Williams
George Hartwell earth worship isn’t Christianity. It’s pagan.
George Hartwell
Stop that. The Earth is the Lord’s and precious to Him. We are to honour and steward. Thus Luther said if he knew the Lord was returning tomorrow he would plant a tree. Lets do that.
Philip Williams
George Hartwell Luther was foul-mouthed and earthy, but we ought to set our thoughts on things above, not on things below.
Philip Williams
George Hartwell God told us to take dominion over the earth. But the snake took dominion over man.
Philip Williams
Canaanite religion was worship of Nature in their sacred groves.
George Hartwell
I get it. etc. etc.
Louise Cummings
Troy Day. For the time will come when they will not endure sound Doctrine. But after their own lust shall they heap to themselves teachers , having itching ears, and they shall turn away their ears from the Truth and shall be turned unto fables. (2 Nd Timothy 4: 3-4).
Varnel Watson
Link Hudson believes in getting left behind but nothing about salvation without repentance
Philip Williams
Troy Day
Why do you say that?
Link Hudson certainly believes that salvation requires repentance.
Varnel Watson
yes he does – after being left behind though
Philip Williams
Troy Day I think he asked a question. The answer, if Jesus gave us the right model, is that all who are left behind will be destroyed with the earth.
Philip Williams
Remember, those knocking on the door and Jesus telling them, “I never knew you.” That ought to be a fearful warning for all who aren’t serious about following Jesus.
Link Hudson
Why do you make stuff up about me.
Philip Williams
This generation has such a high opinion of man but such a low opinion of God that they actually believe that man, not God, controls the weather. As disappointed in man as God must be, that has, at least to be a reason, for Him to smile.
George Hartwell
How is that relevant? What if both are true to some extent?
Philip Williams
George Hartwell Man can control the climate in the buildings that he designs and builds, but not in the creation that God designed and built. Nor can man even predict the climate in the earth that God built. Here this from real climate scientists rather than from the media and politicians like Al Gore.
https://youtu.be/mqejXs7XgsU
George Hartwell
What if man built machines that supercharged and manipulated the ionosphere and developed the ability to steer hurricanes and super charge them, create earthquakes and thus tsunamis?
Philip Williams
Yes, what if man sprouts wings and all that?
Then Icarus might compete with the sun.
Philip Williams
George Hartwell the imagination knows no limits.
So long as it remains in the imagination.
Philip Williams
George Hartwell
https://youtu.be/pBbvehbomrY
Link Hudson
Troy Day You do realize that the one taken and the other left passage is set after the tribulation in Matthew 24, don’t you? Let’s stick with the Bible, not the themes of relatively low budget movies.
Varnel Watson
I do realize you are wrong in your interpretation and was not able to explain what were they left to?
Link Hudson
Troy Day How do you get away with the fact that this is after the tribulation in the passage. Did you ever address that?
Link Hudson
If you get ‘left behind’ tattooed on your right behind can you be saved?
Varnel Watson
like I told Gary Micheal Epping most left behind will be just that The rest will be saved
Varnel Watson
Link Hudson you can only be saved through the Blood of Jesus Ii it typical of you to compare our Lord’s sacrifice to a tat on your said behind? How would be saved under the Tribulation – you cant? What TATTOO does your CHURCH offer during service? http://www.pentecostaltheology.com/what-tattoo-does-your-church-offer-during-service-ourcog/
George Hartwell
The tattoo of a a blood covenant must look like some scars on one’s wrist where blood was exchanged. But now the tattoo is the marks on Jesus wrists, feet and in his side. No further tattoo or sacrifice is needed. He got the tattoo. We don’t. We don’t need to worry about the tribulation that the city of Jerusalem went through in 70 AD that Jesus needed to warn clearly the early believers about. They listened and got out. It was very not pretty what happened to those left behind. You don’t want to know. Nor do we need to somehow update his warnings to our day. The great tribulatiion is done and over.
Varnel Watson
I dont think Link Hudson is a preterist per se
Link Hudson
Troy Day I am making a pun about a cheesy bad eschatology movie to a tat.
Jesus did not die to rapture all the saints years before His parousia.
Varnel Watson
Jesus died to rapture all the saints before the Tribulation says Matthew, Mark, Luke, Paul in Romans and Revelation. It is time you study the meaning of the word parousia. I’ve given you at least dozen references already