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Dave Ramsey Show: How the New GOP Tax Bill Affects You?
Varnel Watson
This may be young mens game after all Jim Price
Varnel Watson
anything Jim Price
Varnel Watson
SO SORRY to put it so plainly Jim Price Jimmy Humphrey Ed Brewer Daniel Rushing BUT got pay check today (some of us preach for free and work for living you see) AND lo and beheld the TRUTH
total % withheld for taxes FEB 2018 7.65%
exactly as % withheld for taxes DEC 2017 7.65%
SO much for all that more money in your pocket junk
Jimmy Humphrey
Mine is different and so is my wife’s. Can’t speak for you
Varnel Watson
Did you get more money then?
Jimmy Humphrey
Troy Day yup. Overall we are netting $225 per month more
Varnel Watson
specifics pls – do this surplus come from federal, state, medical or your company
Jimmy Humphrey
Troy Day I just told you what our monthly net increase is.
Varnel Watson
I am asking where it came from? Was your federal tax lowered, or medical or state? Or your company got tax relief and increased your pay?
Jimmy Humphrey
Troy Day Federal taxes
Jimmy Humphrey
I forget the exact percentage. It went from 8.x or 9 to 7.x.
Varnel Watson
Thank you So private Christian companies under the same tax umbrella are screwed No increase for them – yet they get taxed
Jimmy Humphrey
Troy Day I’m not sure
Varnel Watson
For them it was already 7.65 SO it doesnt benneifit churches one little but Just want clarify that Scotty Searan
Jimmy Humphrey
Collectively last year my wife and I made over 100k between the two of us. I don’t know what you make, but if you are in a lower tax bracket and can claim kids, your situation might be different
Daniel Rushing
I discovered why mine isn’t changing much. Housing allowance! Since it is not taxable, and it’s close to half of my salary package, federal withholding is already minimal.
Varnel Watson
What is this matter with tax withheld from paycheck right now?
Daniel Rushing
What do you mean?
Jim Price
7.65% is the amount taken out for your social security retirement fund, the Employer matches that with 7.65% so this was not and is not influenced by the new tax laws. Those numbers won’t show up until 2019.
Varnel Watson
Sorry my comment was to Jimmy What is the tax bracket have to do with how much is withheld right now month to month?
Jimmy Humphrey
Troy Day if you are in a higher tax bracket your taxes will be different on your federal tax witholdings as your company takes out taxes at a level consistent with your pay. If you make more they take more out
Jimmy Humphrey
Which really sucks for overtime pay by the way. When I have OT on a check they tax me at a higher rate because they presume I’ll be in a higher bracket
Varnel Watson
But Jimmy No difference compared with December 2017 7.65% then 7.65% now This makes no sense
Jimmy Humphrey
Troy Day I cannot explain your situation. Mine is different. Consult an accountant
Varnel Watson
I just did 🙂
Scotty Searan
Troy Day I am retired and I do not get taxes withheld. So I don’t know. But I will talk to my son and compare his check percentages.
Varnel Watson
main question is church and church employees
Varnel Watson
BY ACCEPTING FEDERAL AID, RELIGIOUS ORGANIZATIONS MAY SUBJECT THEMSELVES TO STATE LAW MANDATES.
Under some state laws, acceptance of government aid – even federal aid – triggers new legal obligations and restrictions. For example, the Colorado Anti-Discrimination Act (CADA) generally prohibits employers from discriminating on the basis of religion, sex, sexual orientation, and gender identity. CADA expressly exempts “any religious organization” from these requirements. But the exemption is lost if the organization “is supported in whole or in part by money raised by taxation or public borrowing.” C.R.S. § 24-34-402(7).
Even without this exemption, CADA still permits religious organizations to select employees based upon religious preference. But as with Title VII, this may not permit an employer to discriminate based on other protected classes, such as sexual orientation and gender identity.
Most Colorado churches and ministries aren’t subject to CADA because they’re not supported by government aid. But accepting PPP or EIDL loans could change that and cause an organization to lose at least some of its religious exemption.
BE CAREFUL
Many religious organizations find themselves in dire straits as a result of this crisis. And each will have to balance the economic threat to their operations with the legal risks that come with accepting the government’s help. Every church and ministry will have decide for itself how to strike that balance. But each should go into it with eyes wide open, mindful of the potential costs to their mission and values. As always, you should consult with an attorney regarding your specific situation.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6NhKH91nvJg&feature=youtu.be&fbclid=IwAR3_Hqh8KmCrHvi8KJBTO8aKaPJ0ifa76Zurzmqi5o5WGPCUjFk2q3jOOIs
Varnel Watson
how about it ? Mark Lloyd 501c3 here as well
BY ACCEPTING FEDERAL AID, RELIGIOUS ORGANIZATIONS MAY SUBJECT THEMSELVES TO STATE LAW MANDATES.
Under some state laws, acceptance of government aid – even federal aid – triggers new legal obligations and restrictions. For example, the Colorado Anti-Discrimination Act (CADA) generally prohibits employers from discriminating on the basis of religion, sex, sexual orientation, and gender identity. CADA expressly exempts “any religious organization” from these requirements. But the exemption is lost if the organization “is supported in whole or in part by money raised by taxation or public borrowing.” C.R.S. § 24-34-402(7).
Even without this exemption, CADA still permits religious organizations to select employees based upon religious preference. But as with Title VII, this may not permit an employer to discriminate based on other protected classes, such as sexual orientation and gender identity.
Most Colorado churches and ministries aren’t subject to CADA because they’re not supported by government aid. But accepting PPP or EIDL loans could change that and cause an organization to lose at least some of its religious exemption.
BE CAREFUL
Many religious organizations find themselves in dire straits as a result of this crisis. And each will have to balance the economic threat to their operations with the legal risks that come with accepting the government’s help. Every church and ministry will have decide for itself how to strike that balance. But each should go into it with eyes wide open, mindful of the potential costs to their mission and values. As always, you should consult with an attorney regarding your specific situation.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6NhKH91nvJg&feature=youtu.be&fbclid=IwAR3_Hqh8KmCrHvi8KJBTO8aKaPJ0ifa76Zurzmqi5o5WGPCUjFk2q3jOOIs
Mark Lloyd
Good word to you for the link. I will watch the video.
Mark Lloyd
Mark to Troy Day – Very clear video. Good to hear someone speaking clearly about how the PPP will affect churches.
Varnel Watson
Mark Lloyd I hear more and more ppl talking abut this week Then many churches say they need the money and the 501 stats
Mark Lloyd
Troy Day – The love of the shiny is root of all types of evil. But I hope many will turn from the love of the shiny to live in the agape of God.
Varnel Watson
Mark Lloyd have you seen a positive review of the PPP loan for churches? Our AG denominational lawyer, Dr. Richard Hammer of church, tax and law has advised all 14000 churches of the US AG to in his words, “go for it”. He says there are literally no legal issues as to our religious exemptions or constitutional liberties. You are overthinking this. The great thing is if you document your expenses fully and follow the guidelines you will have the loan forgiven and it becomes essentially a grant. Is this about right or not? Jim
Mark Lloyd
Troy Day – There is an old proverb, which most no longer remember, that warns to be wary of those who come bearing gifts.
Varnel Watson
Mark Lloyd what do you feel is the catch22 on this money provision The legal text states churches are free – its free money 🙂
Mark Lloyd
Mark to Troy – I have not read the text, but, as it is also said, there is no such thing as a free lunch. I have heard from one who says he has read the PPP law, that there are many strings attached to the money, which could be pulled later.
Varnel Watson
Mark Lloyd I second the free lunch 🙂 read the text Says if you pay your ppl you can keep the money Its like a grant they say Bring the one who has read it here
Neil Steven Lawrence
Troy Day I would have to have a legal opinion written by a lawyer proving that it does not obligate future changes to the status of tax exemption. Then the money could be taken to pay workers as they promise.
Related to this is a bigger question; many churches are sitting on piles of cash, while the harvest rots in the field.
While I agree with being financially wise and having a proper savings, even investments. Those investments should be paying for regular outreach to reach the harvest.
Is God drying up those surpluses so it will force ministries and people to rely more on him?
Mark Lloyd
Troy Day – “Its like a grant”, but not a grant. If it were, then it would be called a grant, not a forgivable loan.
Varnel Watson
Mark Lloyd TRUE – how do you relate this to ignorant folk? Jim Price offered it to their church board I think
Mark Lloyd
Troy Day – The way to help those how are ignorant is by giving them instruction so they will no longer be ignorant.
Varnel Watson
Neil Steven Lawrence Mark Lloyd this is from the actual document provided by our AG administration to most churches
SBA issued an “Interim Final Rule” on April 2, 2020, that states, in part:
All loans guaranteed by the SBA pursuant to the CARES Act will be made consistent
with constitutional, statutory, and regulatory protections for religious liberty,
including the First Amendment to the Constitution, the Religious Freedom
Restoration Act . . . and SBA regulation at 13 C.F.R. 113.3-1h, which provides:
“Nothing in [SBA nondiscrimination regulations] shall apply to a religious corporation,
association, educational institution or society with respect to the membership or the
employment of individuals of a particular religion to perform work connected with the
carrying on by such corporation, association, educational institution or society of its
religious activities.”
Third, the so-called ministerial exception, which prohibits the civil courts from resolving
employment disputes between churches and clergy, likely would allow churches to
participate in an SBA loan program even if they discriminate on the basis of biblical
standards in the employment of clergy.[
Mark Lloyd
Mark to Troy Day – The fourth-to-last line “likely would allow churches” looks very dangerous. “Likely” could be likely yes, or likely no. And if no, then biblical standards contrary to public policy will not be allowed in the hiring of staff. Could this become a permanent result? Anyone who takes PPP will never be allowed to violate any public policy when hiring staff? And many such policies are contrary to many biblical standards.
Varnel Watson
Mark Lloyd the wording is VERY VERY tricky indeed Ed Brewer Michael Ellis Carter Jr. are yall getting PPP?
Michael Ellis Carter Jr.
Troy Day no we opted against it. We had margin and decided it was not necessary. We hire based upon competence and chemistry first and foremost. It’s hard to argue against chemistry on the court of law.
Varnel Watson
Michael Ellis Carter Jr. what was your reasoning to opt out of grant line govt. loan just like free money 🙂 Mark Lloyd may like your reasoning about it