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Charles Page
Snake handling was prominent in the early days of the Church of God many preachers associated with my home town CoG were snake handlers. Handling serpents was a sign of one’s faith. Do we have snake-handling faith? …or do we live in fear and doubt? Back then you could pack a church with spectators!
Harold E. Klump We don’t haft to bring in snakes from the mountians that crawl on the ground, we have plenty walking around upright and biting and stining like atlair and like the Bible says we kill one another thinking we are doing Gods will
Luchen BaileyCharles,When was the last time you handled a snake?,
Charles Page1959 – My home church was founded by snake handlers – I am proud of their faith -we need it today
Patricia Carol Lang Churches are packed with spectators now and they don’t handle snakes….
Charles PageThey have good entertainment
Nathan RidgewayNot always … sometimes they just have “entertainment” … period.
Dorcas ColeyBro Nathan I believe this is not of God but ignorance! No we don’t need “entertainment” if we have Holy Ghost preaching & singing we will have all the entertainment we need &.God will be the FATHER of it!!!
Luchen BaileyI handled a snake about 3 weeks ago. it was on the end of my shovel.
Cleatis JeffcoatI was bitten by a pygmy rattler once and immediately gave situation to the Lord. The burning of the venom ceased immediately and there was no swelling or other effects. I was not handling it, and was not at church. I won’t participate in such foolishness..testing my faith or God’s faithfulness….
Charles Page
far more prominent than reported!
Charles Page
COG historians down play snake handling
Varnel Watson
With Charles Page approaching 70 AD today Ricky Grimsley we cannot but wonder what has the church lost with the miraculous since 70 AD; and is this the reason why some churches in VA David M. Hinsen and NC David Lewayne Porter Karen Lucas do not fulfill Mk. 16 no longer by handling the serpent?
David M. Hinsen
If I were in WV I’d let you know 🙂
Varnel Watson
Would the lack of miraculous be the very reason WHY discipleship is not working today? In Mt. 28 and Mk. 16 they seem to go HAND by HAND
Ricky Grimsley
People that handle snakes for religious purposes arent christians. IMO.
Varnel Watson
The above article and the humble opinion of this greatly respected historian says otherwise Ricky Grimsley (as well as Jesus in Mk. 16)
Karen Lucas
I am fine with handling a snake whenever the situation calls for it but do not see the need for it to be a ritual or part of service. I am more on favor of killing them when they are in my yard. 🙂 Did that with a sledge hammer once when a shovel wasn’t handy… It was pretty fulfilling because I was defending my children and kept thinking about the curse on the serpent in the garden and how close I had to get to it to crush its head…but crush it I did. There’s a sermon in there somewhere.
Ricky Grimsley
Sure if i am out hunting and a snake bites me im gonna be ok……Should i jump out of the window of a skyscraper to see if angels will bare me up? Utter foolishness. Lay hands on some cancer. Lay hands on a married couple and the husband stops hitting her.
Karen Lucas
I think men laying hands on another man to get him to stop hitting her is a great idea but maybe we are thinking of two different things.
Ricky Grimsley
I hear ya on that one. Men that hit women shouldnt get much mercy IMO.
Varnel Watson
Karen Lucas The situation does call for it… https://books.google.com/books?id=itS-UuFD3VkC&pg=PA501&dq=wade+phillips+church+of+god&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjumu7rvZ_QAhXK6YMKHT14DYAQ6AEIGzAA#v=onepage&q=snake&f=false
David Lewayne Porter
Maybe we don’t handle snakes because we are told to not tempt The Lord our God.
Ryan Neil Rutan
Exactly.
Gary Sawyer
100% Right
Varnel Watson
Downplaying the subject or as Ricky Grimsley calls it Biblical avoidance 🙂
David Lewayne Porter
Troy Day
Down play,
Biblical avoidance?
Let’s go there,,,
As the “need” arises in everyday life, yes.
Let me ask a question,
Where in the Bible are we told to at our desire to play with serpents during a church service?
If you are concerned about down playing the Bible let’s discuss bible :;
Mark 16:15-18
And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.
**go into all the world, clear enough,
**they that believe, clear enough
**baptize, clear enough
**signs following
Show me where these signs are for “in the church” since sinners are hardly coming into the church to be saved, we are going out to them.
Show me were (you) are handling snakes, drinking deadly substances
Are our sick recovering by the laying on of our hands or are we sinking millions of dollars into medicine and wasting time sitting around doctors` offices or hospitals?
As far as avoiding and down playing the subject,
At the mouth of two or three witnesses let a matter be established (i`ll give you four)
Jesus spoke it (1), it was recorded for us by Luke (2), Matt (3), and the Old Testament writer (4);
Matthew 4:6-7
And saith unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down: for it is written, He shall give his angels charge concerning thee: and in their hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone.
Jesus said unto him, It is written again,
**Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God.**
Luke 4:9-14
And he brought him to Jerusalem, and set him on a pinnacle of the temple, and said unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down from hence: For it is written, He shall give his angels charge over thee, to keep thee: And in their hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone. And Jesus answering said unto him, It is said,
**Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God.**
And when the devil had ended all the temptation, he departed from him for a season. And Jesus returned in the power of the Spirit into Galilee: and there went out a fame of him through all the region round about.
I love this one (it is just so awesome),,
Isaiah 7:10-14
Moreover the Lord spake again unto Ahaz, saying, Ask thee a sign of the Lord thy God; ask it either in the depth, or in the height above. But **Ahaz said, I will not ask, neither will I tempt the Lord.**
And he said, Hear ye now, O house of David; Is it a small thing for you to weary men, but will ye weary my God also? Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.
I could use Moses in Exodus 17:7
And he called the name of the place Massah, and Meribah, because of the chiding of the children of Israel, and because they tempted the Lord, saying, Is the Lord among us, or not?
Or
Deuteronomy 6:16-17
Ye shall not tempt the Lord your God, as ye tempted him in Massah. Ye shall diligently keep the commandments of the Lord your God, and his testimonies, and his statutes, which he hath commanded thee.
You see Troy you place the emphasis on the things following believing instead of the faith that directs and enables it.
Now let’s up – play and stop avoiding scripture shall we?.
Maybe the cursed and dead fig tree could help.
I believe it was our Saviour Jesus, the same speaker that told us signs would follow that said in Mark 11 these 4 simple words, “Have FAITH In GOD”.
I know sinners that handle snakes, so at that moment are they saved because God let them live (poison pill).
Maybe examine Paul on Melita as he was bit while going about his business as normal.
His faith was that it did not even phase him yet to those outside (literally and physically) came to the faith.
Maybe there is your answer Troy.
(Side note that I really don’t believe, but several scholars claim that the portion of scripture you use for snake handling and drinking deadly items was not in the original scripts and was added at a later date).
Just some thoughts.
Varnel Watson
– – – They shall take up serpents; – – –
David Lewayne Porter
Mouth of two or three witnesses.
Bring at least one more for me.
I do see where Jesus gave them this power more than once;
Matthew 10:7-8
And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand. Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give.
So Troy Day
Where do you keep your snakes and personal stash of poison?
Don’t try and talk others into doing something you’re not willing to do yourself my brother
Charles Page
Where in the Bible are we told to at our desire to play with serpents during a church service? Who ever said they were playing with snakes? That is a subjective statement to undermine the state of mind and heart. The person who makes that judgement is a person who “never plays around with anything” The height of spiritual superiority.
Varnel Watson
– – – They shall take up serpents; – – –
Louise Cummings.
John The Baptist. Told his followers. Oh ye generaterion of vipers. (Vipers are Poisionious snakes. ). But John.called them a generation of vipers. He said go and brings fourth fruits meet for Repentance,then come and be baptized. He wasn’t going to baptize anyone who wasn’t a Christian. You never see one example of Jesus handling snakes except hipocrites. He drove them out or The Temple. That was people he drove out. And told them. My House shall be called a House Of Prayer. But you have made it a den of theirs. People need to go back and read the Scriptute where it said they shall take up serpents. See what serpent meant. If they drink any deadly thing it shall not hurt them. ( false doctrine. ). How much false doctrin do you hear. We better do what God said. Study to show yourself approved unto God. A workman that needeth not to be ashamed. Rightly deciding The Word Of Truth. Now I’m not throwing stones. They was doing what they thought was right. God was with many of them. They meant no harm. They loved the Lord. But God showed the truth. Noe what’s going on now. I can’t say that. I believe they knew The Lord didn’t grow snakes. The devil wanted Jesus to jump from the high mountaint. Jesus said Thou shalt not tempt The Lord God. Louise Cummings. Find know email address.
Varnel Watson
So do you not feel it has been downplayed in history a bit? http://www.pentecostaltheology.com/newschannel-9-to-investigate-snake-handling-as-a-religious-practice/
David Lewayne Porter
I fell that people have wanted emotionalism instead of God.
Let me repeat,
EmOtIoNaLiSm…. (sorry, I forgot to use this….
!)
Jamie Coots is dead from a snake bite…..
Huh hum,
Thoughts Troy Day,
Why even when church members were bitten and they lived, they had nerve damage, loss body parts, etc.
Is that no harm coming to them?
(Oh I am sorry, a true reading of the text says that the deadly things will not hurt us,, we are just told to take up serpents (lol) go read it…
Better yet,
Here you go,
Mark 16:18
They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.
(Poison pill)
Varnel Watson
David Lewayne Porter You seem to be arguing the biblical validity of snake handling doctrine which is beyond the scope of this discussion.
The conversation here is on the obviously prominent historical role of snake handling within the historical development of Pentecostal faith in the Appalachians starting with Tennessee preacher named George W. (“Little George”) Hensley. Hensley’s experience spread throughout the Appalachian region and soon caught the attention of A. J. Tomlinson, then General Overseer of the Church of God. He ordained Hensley into the denomination (though there is no record of Tomlinson handling snakes, his daughter did).
At first, most of the snakes were brought to the church by unbelievers looking for a good show. At one early meeting, hecklers threw a box full of cottonmouths, copperheads, and rattlesnakes in front of the former moonshiner while Hensley was preaching. The congregation ran out of the building, but Hensley simply bent down and picked up the snakes, as one observer put it, “like a boy would gather stovewood in his arms to carry to the house.”
So when you turn this discussion to a Bible talk, are you trying to state that all these people were in a theological errant or what?
Karen Lucas
Troy Day, once I was taking a walk with my neighbor and we were talking about scripture ave issues God had laid on our hearts. We rounded a corner and there was a snake in the road. She stopped dead in her tracks. I walked up to it, picked it up and put it in the grass on the other side of the street. Much like Hensley…but I don’t imagine that means snake handling should be included in all walks with friends, from now on, if we are discussing scripture. That kind of thinking is where rituals and vain repetitions come from.
Varnel Watson
Cant hurt
Karen Lucas
Yes. Sometimes people are wrong…even if they are dead.
Karen Lucas
David Lewayne Porter
Troy,
It is both a historical and biblical one.
If believers are not following the Bible then their daily lives are in error.
As far as Hensley (He did exactly as he should have) seeing that his faith allowed for it.
That was not tempting God. He did not initiate the situation, by faith he handled it.
Troy, do you do things daily that do not hold actual accreditation in the scriptures and then say that is why the church has lost some of its power, holiness and appeal?
Varnel Watson
I agree that Hensley did exactly as he should have. And what about us?
Charles Page
I’m doing as I should be doing
Varnel Watson
Demon casting and snake handling is part of the Great Commission. Without them you have the Great Omission…
David Lewayne Porter
Part of signs following, not as part of our missing witness leading to power.
You go about fulfilling the command to witness. Not to exploit signs.
You have placed the cart before the horse.
You keep avoiding the question;
Troy Day
Where is your personal stash of poison and venomous serpents?
Are you trying to convince others to do something you are not ready to yourself?
So, any fiery testimonials for us from a personal viewpoint?
Varnel Watson
Well, I rather have the snake in front of me than follow and chase me
David Lewayne Porter
But you did not say you do or have…
Ricky Grimsley
Did any of the early church fathers write about snake handling. If not then it cant be true ?
Varnel Watson
Guess you are not Irish and dont know St. Patrick removed all the snakes from Ireland highhandedly?
Ricky Grimsley
Myth
David Lewayne Porter
I believe St Patrick drove the snakes out, if I remember correctly.
Rico Hero
If one would take time and do a word study on “airo” (translated ‘take up’ in Mk.16:18) as used in the Bible , one would quickly realize that not one time is the word used of making a side show out of serpents or anything else that it is used with. Airo is used in scripture to mean: take up, remove, to take away., to destroy, put away, do away with r kill, remove. The whole idea regarding “take up serpents” is immunity from snake bites( as in Acts 28:1-5) and power over them in conflict ( as in Lk. 10:19, Ps. 91:18). Handling snakes in public is no more proof that he is a Christian than the snake charmers of India or Burma. If one had power with God let it be used as Jesus and the Apostles used it. If one could handle al the snakes in the world and could not heal the sick and cast out devils what good would it do him or anybody else?
David Lewayne Porter
Ty my brother
Varnel Watson
Holy Ghost People is a 1967 documentary by Peter Adair. It is about the service of a snake handling Pentecostal community in Scrabble Creek, West Virginia, United States. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QZIa4kutkIM
Walter Polasik
I’m with you guys on the Snake Handlers. However, in the reading that I’ve done about them and from talking to a few (one young Snake Handling preacher even on FB!) I have come to a few conclusions as to why such a thing even exists. 1. It is, of course, a misinterpretation of Mark 16:17,18 but one made in light of a subtle reasoning: 2. The movement started by Hensley probably came out of a desire to have a definite manifestation of God’s presence and activity in the local church meeting. It’s a grabbing-hold of something which could be called an “ear-mark” of revivalistic/ supernatural working in the congregation. At the very least, those who taught such practice may have been wanting to “keep up the fire” in this way. 3. As has happened to other fringe/ smaller Pentecostal and quasi-Pentecostal bodies, this movement devolved into emphasizing and mainly talking about this one aspect with a complete negligence in a full-orbed biblical teaching. This would be sort of like Presbyterians only talking about predestination or Baptists only talking about water-baptism to the exclusion of other Christian doctrines taught by the Bible. Basically what has happened over the years is the widespread onset of Biblical illiteracy. I’m sad to say that the Snake Handling movement isn’t the only one that has this deficiency. Many of the erroneous fads/doctrines in the church—-especially the Pentecostal bodies—come out of wild imaginations and little Bible knowledge. People to whom some of these things sound good accept them because they just don’t know any better and what’s more, don’t really want to.
Varnel Watson
There’s no historic proof the movement was started by Hensley. But again the topic is not if right or wrong. The discussion started by Charles Page was about the intentional down play of the practice in historic literature.
Walter Polasik
Troy Day: So you’re saying that the practice was more prevalent in early Pentecostalism than is now admitted to?
Varnel Watson
I am saying that the discussion is as of Why the practice is down played through history? On top of that Charles Page proudly stated “1959 – My home church was founded by snake handlers – I am proud of their faith -we need it today” Personally I am not sure how much we need it today, but I too wonder why is it intentionally excluded from our history?
Karen Lucas
I didn’t know it was intentionally excluded from Pentecostal history. I thought it was pretty well known but exclusive to COG.
Varnel Watson
down played
David Lewayne Porter
So does Charles Page handle snakes himself actively today if he believes (we) need it?
Maybe it was not as much intentionally down played as it was just left out and overlooked much like Paul told the Corithian church they should have not mentioned this one, “1 Corinthians 5:1-2 It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father’s wife. And ye are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he that hath done this deed might be taken away from among you.”,,,
Why should we have exalted it unless we are at the same time saying we agreed with its biblical basis with intentional practice?
Walter Polasik
There is always a fine line between deep faith (trust), presumption and “putting God to the test”.(Matt. 4:7). Sad to say, many in the Pentecostal movement have crossed that line many times. This is borne out historically.
Varnel Watson
Excellent, but why is it intentionally excluded from our history?
Ricky Grimsley
Its kinda like the way the government excludes tuskogee experiments. Yeah it happened but it was wrong.
Charles Page
I still handle snakes today!
David Lewayne Porter
Yeah, the slithering kind?
Charles Page
I am sure that Hensley would have the faith I have to handle these snakes! He would still be in a clapboard building in Hamilton County!
Rico Hero
Bro Walter, can you give examples of others in the Pentecostal Movement that crossed the line ?
Gary Sawyer
I can give you an example of crossing the line. I went to another Pentecostal church back in 2004 because they were having a revival and my wife had been invited to sing. I had never met this pastor nor been to his church before. When we got there he acted like he was thrilled to meet me. And he invited me to go sit at a table with him, so I did. I carried my Bible into the service with me. He asked me “What’s that for” I told him the I always bring my Bible to every church service. That is when I started noticing that nobody in his congregation had a Bible. Then when the service began they turned the lights out and turned on brightly colored disco lights and his band played music that was borderline to being Heavy Metal music. They even had a fog machine on stage. The congregation was walking around the room waiving flags, shaking tambourines and speaking in tongues. After about an hour and a half of playing hard rock style music. They finally let my wife sing “God of Wonders” after she was finished they turned the lights back on and their pastor dismissed them. So I asked “Where is the preaching?” And that pastor told me “If you want to mess peoples lives up then preach from that book” he said as he pointed to my Bible that I was carrying with me. The he proceeded to tell me that he didn’t have a close one on one relationship with God until he put that religious relic down. (The religious relic he was referring to was the Bible) …. I couldn’t believe that this man called himself a Pentecostal Preacher and believe that the Bible should be discarded as a religious relic. . . . Needless to say me and my wife never went back to that place. …the moral to my story is that not all Pentecostal churches believe the same thing and some of these Pentecostal Churches are in a state of full blown Apastacy. I am glad to tell you that my Pentecostal church believe the Bible
Gary Sawyer
By the way that particular Church folded in 2006. And I hear rumors that pastor and his wife moved to Indiana to live in a three-way marriage with another woman.
Gary Sawyer
As a Pentecostal is has often bugged me that we have no Official Denominational Doctrine to flush out Apostate Preachers like from calling themselves a Pentecostal Church.
Rico Hero
Bro Gary, the denominational divisions even within Pentecostalism has often bugged me as well. How could anyone who adheres to the literal Interpretation of Scripture ( a fundamental belief in Pentecostalism)be so divided? I guess they really dont adhere to the literal interpretation of scripture
Rico Hero
Bro Charles , please elucidate on your snake handling
Varnel Watson
WILL HINDMA: APPALACHIAN AMERICANS RELIGIOUS SNAKE HANDLERS IN BIRCHWOOD, TENNESSEE “In the early 1900’s a small group of church members made up of Pentecostal, Church of God and Southern Baptists began practicing what came to be known as Snake Handling. They shall pick up serpents through their faith in God that no harm shall come to the ones who believe and trust in his name .Many of these type Church Services took place around where l grew up in Birchwood, Tennessee. Certainly not everyone participated in these events, but seemed to have the knowledge that it was happening. Throughout the years this practice has faded out around my little home town.But still there are people that continue to practice it today.” https://www.facebook.com/groups/AppalachianAmericans/permalink/10154458593528648/
Danny Woods
Some people are “snakes in the grass.” Haha! However, I do not think God would command His people to do anything that would in any situation harm them. My father, Dr. Daniel Woods, has done extensive research and study on so-called Pentecostal snake handling that often included the drinking of poison. The Lord is our Good Shephard. Do any of you think that He would allow his Church to put themselves in danger or possibly even kill themselves? of course not. We need to focus on Jesus Christ’s soon return and great ourpouring of the Holy Spirit instead of those who chase rabbits doctrinally or in this case snakes.
Varnel Watson
Pls feel free to post the research by Dr. Daniel Woods http://bittersoutherner.com/the-pentecostal-serpent/#.WCniKdQrIUQ
David Lewayne Porter
Nicely written.
Great thoughts.
Varnel Watson
If it hasnt been for snake handling there would have never been pew running in Pentecostalism…
Corky Alexander
Yes was practiced at General Assembly
Stan Wayne
Absurd
Corky Alexander
You might think that it is absurd. But if you’re going to have a Pentecostal page you’re going to have to make a place for it
Stan Wayne
Corky Alexander it is a Pentecostal heresy based on ignorance – not Pentecostalism
Corky Alexander
Stan Wayne that is fine that you feel that way but it is a part of the church of God history and they based it on Mark 16. My point is that if a page is going to say it is Pentecostal it will have to include those who still practiced this because it is a part of the Pentecostal story. I do not call Pentecostals who are really evangelicals heretics or ignorant
Corky Alexander
And happily this page did
Varnel Watson
Stan Wayne you’ve been served !!! http://www.pentecostaltheology.com/?s=snake
Corky Alexander
I preached at Grasshopper Church of God for Johnny Raper. It’s connected
Varnel Watson
Shannon Millsaps Wtvc has been wanting to do some TV on local snake handling. Maybe you can be their to go person http://www.pentecostaltheology.com/newschannel-9-to-investigate-snake-handling-as-a-religious-practice/
Corky Alexander
The expert is Ralph Hood at UT in Chattanooga.
Varnel Watson
Thanks Do you also know when Wade Phillips’ 3rd book comes out of print?
Corky Alexander
Troy Day no
Paul Hughes
“Thous shalt not tempt the Lord thy God”!
Varnel Watson
Ignoring entire sanctification is tempting the Lord thy God
Dan Brent
We had a baptist family we were good friends with growing up. They always called us “the rattlers,” as an ongoing joke.
Varnel Watson
so you handled them well ?? Dan Brent